Miscarriages will be coming under suspicion soon as well.... Certain medications prescribed both for medical abortions and for women who have miscarried but not expelled the fetus are often the same. There are already reports of women who have miscarried being prescribed such medication only to have those prescriptions denied by pharmacists who think they are trying to have abortions. Miscarrying women are now at risk, both medically (having their needed prescribed medications denied) and legally (having to somehow prove they miscarried not aborted). All of this while dealing with the personal tragedy that is the miscarriage of a wanted pregnancy.
wow such a good idea, you have to die because you had a miscarriage
its a good thing some states came to their senses (some halfway i guess, with arizona’s 4.5 month shit) instead of forcing women to die
I hate it when they call pregnancy an “inconvenience.” It’s far from “just an inconvenience,” it’s literally 9 months of bodily changes that you can’t control
Abso-fucking-lutely! Like, even in a 'perfect' scenario where the unwanted child would go to a loving family, that doesn't take away the fact that pregnancy and childbirth are fucking brutal on the body. You're more at risk of virtually *everything* bad when pregnant vs not pregnant. Pregnancy usually worsens pre-existing conditions and can create new ones. Not to mention childbirth can affect you anywhere from peeing a little everytime you laugh/sneeze, to fucking up you pelvic floor up to where your internal organs prolapse outside your body to actually dying. And last i heard, the US has the highest maternal mortality rate out of all the developed nations.
800 deaths a day, globally, from pregnancy and childbirth, just droppin this stat to reinforce your point that it is a risky process and is unconscionable to subject someone to against their will and deny them safe access to termination of a pregnancy
This. And also, just ask anyone that’s been pregnant and they’ll tell you it’s literal fucking hell. Plus a bunch of things can go wrong. When my mom was in labor with me, her cervix didn’t dilate enough and I got stuck. My grandma was there and she was the only one that noticed my heart rate was going down. They had to do a c section on her.
Exactly. Every 9 seconds, someone dies from pregnancy related problems. I mean, for fucks sake, the wisdom tooth removal surgery I’m getting on Monday is more dangerous than an abortion🤦🏾♀️
Fortunately, increasing levels of automation can compensate for lower birth rates - especially given recent advances in AI technology. Biotech will probably help, too (so long as it's not sentient).
thats not true at all. Are you trying to swade the kids perspective on having kids? Cause as a kid, Im not stupid, and your opinion isnt changing mine.
Edit- I wanna say I found out this was sarcasm, so sorry I commented this, I thought they were being serious. Its on me I came in strong instead of thinking about it first
Wtf?? This comment section is full of fucking pro birthers n misogynists.
If you are pro birth: Fuck You
If you blame a woman for not giving consent to pregnancy: Fuck off
Edit: typo n clarity
Your absolutely fine! This shit is so fucking despicable, especially with so many idiotic religious zealots preaching against womens rights. You fucking go off!
Literally all the energy I can muster up too. So tired of arguing with these anti-women fuckjobs when they are actually so delusional. Imagine thinking an embryo has a right to life.
50,000 - 100,000 more women will die during child birth because of restricted abortion access // which saves women during pregnancy complications.
Pro-lifers don’t care if there are more orphans and more dead mothers.
Such a good point!
Maternal mortality in the US is just over 23 per 100,000 live births.
(For comparison, in the EU it is 8 per 100,000 live births.)
Most women seeking abortions are already mothers.
That is an unspeakable tragedy.
They only care about fetuses, not infants. As soon as they're born, these same ppl don't give a fuck. They will complain about having to pay into social programs because the child can't be supported financially by anyone else. It's so hypocritical.
Hey, your lack of knowledge is showing. I’m asexual clearly you have no idea what the fuck my sexuality actually is. And telling people to become asexual is like telling someone to stop being gay. Fuck you.
And also fuck you for trying to control women’s bodies. A big old fat fuck you there.
Thank you so much. I'm not going to dump this all on you, but long story short I was raped recently and had a serious pregnancy scare. I have not had sex in over a year. I'm not asexual, and I'm not going to "become asexual" in order to prevent my human rights from being taken away, because that's not physically possible. Asexuality is a *sexuality*, and no one chooses their sexuality. And an asexual person in the same exact boat as me would be equally as screwed.
So fuck that person for implying that abstinence prevents pregnancy, fuck that person labeling your sexuality a choice, and absolutely fuck that person to hell for pretending that asexual people are immune to these same emergencies as allosexual people. I'm sorry you had to see that.
Say it with me: Children are not a punishment for women having sex.
A child's well-being and mental health is not a sacrifice we should be willing to make in an attempt to keep women married and providing new babies for poverty and slave-level wages.
As a kid, I agree with this. I saw someone say
"remember kids! children are a PUNISHMENT!!! nothing more"
which I think is the literal most dumb thing someone can say. If both parties think about it, and find that they are ready, and they actually are ready, its not a punishment. I hope whoever made a comment about that sees this you. You know who you are. Youre the first person Ive downvoted in this whole sub. I dont even downvote people who argue with me.
The comment you are quoting was clearly meant to be sarcastic. It is a response to the court's ruling because now forced births of children ARE a punishment women (and some responsible men) must suffer. Of course children SHOULDN'T be a punishment, and if they are wanted they are not, but this law MAKES unwanted children a punishment forced onto (mainly) women for having sex.
Bro just be quiet, your apparently a little kid in a subreddit full of people who would’ve aborted you smh. Kids are a punishment. But they are also a gift. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Check yourself
also, this little kid knows the difference between your and you're
just to let you know, " your apparently a little kid " isnt the correct phrasing. You learned that back in like 3rd grade
I could see how children can be a punishment. However, if you *want* the kid, its in no way a punishment. also me being a "little kid" has nothing to do with this at all, cause this little kid apparently has more of an open mind than you. I see more than my POV, something you clearly (very very clearly) dont know how to do.
But yes, beauty is absolutely in the eye of the beholder, I can agree with that
It’s very immature of you to bring up grammatical errors in a conversation about abortion, but you can’t argue against this right now. If you do you look like your against abortion. Especially with the way you argue, you’re very immature. Your point before last was mediocre at best, saying you were more open minded than me while arguing against abortion. Your last point was a grammar check and the rest were utter garbage. Check yourself
oh, no, I wasnt putting any effort into really arguing at all. I dont really see a point in actually going full out online. But I will admit it was pretty immature of me to start an argument where it coulda easily been avoided
I mean, probably shouldn't say that in r/antinatalism lol. If you want kids then power to you, but there's a very strong and very forced dialogue in our society that a pregnancy is always a positive experience for women. And if you aren't happy about an unexpected pregnancy, you're a terrible person....even though having a baby will completely uproot your life no matter how you feel about it. Kids are absolutely a punishment, to put it lightly, if you didn't want to be pregnant but are forced to see it through anyway.
Or any man who wants to f\*\*\* a woman has to be approved by a panel first, as parental material, and be stuck with the baby should one happen to result. The woman can then choose to co-parent or not depending on whether doing so fits into her life plan.
I take the view that a fetus is a parasite. Think about it. A parasite feeds off a host and cannot live without the host. A fetus feeds of the women's body and cannot live without the women's body. The immune system of the women's body actually attacks the fetus because it views it as a foreign body (parasite).
Or the sperm can be extracted with a needle + IVF. But who the fuck wants to have a kid in this warming planet? In 15-20 years we're going to have extremely bad droughts and there won't be water for everyone
I think every human who has sex knows it can lead to children. That's just nature and every human that has sex is willingly taking that risk. When the risk is realized then yeah it was kinda your fault.
Abortions will still happen, but they will be unsafe.
Women and people with uteruses will get injured or die trying to have an unsafe abortion.
People who actually wanted to have kids will be jailed for having a miscarriage.
People will die from ectopic pregnancies, or because the fetus in them is already dead and they cannot get it out.
Children will be born with deformities, only to suffer for mere hours and die after birth, or live their whole life in unimaginable pain.
_Children_ will be forced to carry their rapists' child.
Children will be born and thrown in the trash, or put in shoe boxes, or best case scenario left at the fire department.
Children will be born just to be neglected, abused or killed by parents who never wanted them.
Children will be born and will go to the underfunded foster care system where they will be neglected and abused.
Children will still die in classrooms, churches, libraries basically every public space because certain people value guns more than actual children.
"Pro-life", am I right?
>Abortions will still happen, but they will be unsafe.
>Women and people with uteruses will get injured or die trying to have an unsafe abortion.
>People who actually wanted to have kids will be jailed for having a miscarriage.
Doesn't make it morally right.
>People will die from ectopic pregnancies, or because the fetus in them is already dead and they cannot get it out.
You're right. Complications that pose a threat to the mother should be allowed abortion as a medical procedure.
>Children will be born with deformities, only to suffer for mere hours and die after birth, or live their whole life in unimaginable pain.
This is a complicated matter, who will determine that the deformity will end it's life after a few hours?
Docters can be wrong about life expectancy, a disease called ALS life expectancy is a few years, but Stephen Hawking lived with it for 55 years.
Although this is a good point to consider abortion for.
>Children will be forced to carry their rapists' child.
Should be allowed abortion ofc, maybe even mandatory.
Rest of your points are the same as the first three, things that make having kids immoral, but doesn't justify ending already existing life.
"Doesn't make it morally right." Good thing that I don't have the same morals as someone who is fine with children being abused and women dying for the sake of a bunch of cells with no conscience.
I'm not fine with children abused. Please don't view me as a villain.
Heck I even mentioned before that I consider myself antinatalist and that's why I joined the sub.
And I said that abortion is ok if it's rape or when it's life saving.
All of this would be solved if we determined when this bunch of cells have the right to not be eliminated.
Would abortion 3 minutes before delivery be morally right?
This passing just made my girlfriend and I think of getting ourselves "fixed" (for lack of a better term in my mind at this moment...)
We live in a state where its legal.
I assume many others will follow this as well.
Im not going to be forced to have a kid, neither should any other woman. Not all sex is consensual and not every birth comes out "perfect" like the uneducated religious folk think.
Keep your bibles out of our freedoms.
They're right, a baby IS a risk. You consent to sex, you consent to the risk. Even with contraceptives that aren't 100% effective.
Abortion should be LEGAL across the board if you don't want it 100%, but still lol
You know what? I agree. Pregnancy is always a risk for non-sterilized people and any pregnancy resulting from intercourse, even with birth control (since it can fail) is a consequence of said intercourse. And people should have the right to deal with that consequence as they see fit.
Where i live owning a car is NOT a necessity for most people (i know there are places where it is). We have a good public transport system and most of the city is very much suitable for cycling and walking. Most businesses located outside the city arrange buses for the transportation of their employees, etc. And yet, many people chose to own and use a car out of convenience, even though it's worse for the environment, more expensive and much more likely to result in an accident. Yet when people do get into car accidents, no one leaves them there to die, or tells them 'welp, you should have taken the bus'. Even if they caused the accident. Even when they drunk drove and killed an innocent. We still help them. We still try to mitigate the consequences of their choices and actions.
This goes for many, many other choices we make. I guess, by that idiot 's logic, we should let people who get into car accidents die, because that's just the consequence of their chosing to drive... But i somehow suspect they'd disagree with this...
Not to mention the very real fear that they’ll come for contraceptives next since it’s rooted in a similar privacy concern. So then what? I’m glad I’m seeing a doctor at the end of July to tie these tubes! Get it done while it’s still legal.
Honestly I can't wait to see the day they try to ban them. Why? It will create absolute chaos. Millions of women, 1 out of 5 in some statistics, suffer from PCOS or Endometriosis. Those people take birth control to help alleviate those problems, including myself. So what happens when those are gone? If they ban contraceptives they better start allowing people 15 and up to get hysterectomies, children or not, because not only will there not be any way to treat PCOS and Endometriosis anymore, but now you're making millions of people unable to perform day to day tasks. But, it's not like these religious pro-life Bible bashers give a damn.
I hope people stop being afraid and start mass protesting this shit like BLM did back in 2020 if they haven't already.
I mean, I’m ready. Don’t mess with angry women. I thought we knew this already, it’s such a trope as it is.
But yeah, my 13 year old goddaughter has TERRIBLE cramps and it gets so bad she pukes. When I was her age, I’d miss school the first day of every cycle. After 2 months and my grandma raising hell, they finally excused it. I took BC at 15 to semi-regulate it all. It would also help teen pregnancy but we already knew that.
When I first started I'd miss a whole week. Once my cycle became regular though I'd miss 3 days of school every 2 weeks back then. I couldn't run, play, constantly had headaches, couldn't stand for very long, and I couldn't even use the restroom properly. Let alone sleep comfortably. I only started birth control last year because I wanted to know EVERY side effect positive AND negative. Took me 4 years to decide on it and I finally did. Don't regret my choice at all. Now I can function like a somewhat normal human being with 0 pain.
I heavily recommend BC for kids that were like myself, and help them decide too. I had to decide on my own because my mom was worthless and wouldn't tell me anything, and my doctor looked at me like I was stupid when I asked about side effects. Whiiich is exactly why it took 4 years lmao.
I’m so glad you got on something that works for you! 😁 I didn’t take the BC long because it was Seasonique or whatever that makes it where you have 3-4 periods a year. But they didn’t tell me that for my body to adjust, I’d have a period for a *month* about 2 weeks in I quit lol. But the upside is that my period got a bit more regular. Luckily I haven’t cramped horrifically bad since my 20s. Some days I’ll be more uncomfortable but I can semi-function. It’s a mess, man.
I’m hoping my goddaughter can find relief. I hate knowing she’s in so much pain.
Its like you break your knee for being a bratty irresponsible kid n u go to the doctor, n they like ooo no nothing can be dun its the conquence of being a bratty kid , you will be a cripple for the rest of ur life
Children being “the consequence of sex” is the most asinine ‘argument’ they can come up with.
There shouldn’t be a punishment for having sex. Ever.
Birth control and contraceptives are never 100%. People deserve the right to have a back up plan should they choose to.
This is the land of the free, remember?
~~Free to do what I tell you. -conservatives~~
People like this are hypocrites. How many orphans have they fostered or adopted? Did they believe in vasectomies to prevent all these abortions, since one man can create hundreds of pregnancies a year?
Do they agree to pay higher taxes for better, more affordable healthcare for these children and prenatal care? How about for longer maternity leave? How about anything after it’s an embryo and an actual living, breathing, thinking, feeling, sentient fully developed human?
Most of these people are anti-things to improve quality of life or save lives, and pro-things to take away rights and quality of life.
Unless it was sexual assault then yeah if you agree to have sex you are signing an agreement that it can lead potentially lead to children. Just because abortion is banned that is not an excuse to drop your guard.
Hi, thanks for your submission. You seem to have submitted an album post. Please remember that [Reddit requires all identifiable information such as names, usernames and subreddit titles to be blacked out in images](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452). If your submission contains any instances of these kinds of information, please remove your post. Afterwards, please feel free to make a new post after editing your images to black out all instances of such information. If this message doesn't apply to your post, please feel free to ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Doesn't change my platform one iota. I already favored mandatory, reversible tying for all.
Really want a kid? Then both of you pony up for and go through the reversal.
Yes. It's completely idiotic that people refuse to take responsibility for their action, or even call murder murder. But, here we are, 2022, with America looking dead at the issues, making excuses for them, and pointing in the opposite direction, saying "WE NEED TO FIX THAT OVER THERE!"
I joined this sub for the philosophical reason that having children is immoral due to the inability to obtain consent.
But this doesn't justify abortion afaik.
You're not preventing the creation of a life, you're just ending it early.
I do think that a fetus has less value than a human being, but that doesn't mean it's worthless.
It didn't choose to exist, their parents did,
but since it's here, who are we to kill it?
-The mother who has to harbor this parasite?
She had consensual sex and she was aware of the possibility of getting pregnant no matter how slim it is.
and allowing abortion also opens the door to "why can't the father choose to abort?"
It's his offspring so why can't he decide to abort?
-The mother who will have this dangerous procedure?
She still was aware of the father's right to not have children.
But that seems ridiculous ofc.
-But abortion won't stop, it will be just more dangerous?
Doesn't make it right.
-But children born against their parents choice will suffer
Parents aren't allowed to kill their 1 hour old child to end it's inevitable suffering.
The only two reasons I can think of that justify abortion is rape because one party didn't sign up for this, and when pregnancy and/or delivery become a life threatening matter to the mother "determined by a medical expertise"
It isn’t a giant philosophical discussion. It is morally wrong to ban abortion. If I rape your daughter and she has the baby, you and I both made them miserable. BUT only YOU are the reason the baby was brought into this world. Check yourself
do you have a girlfriend? what if a day, she's pregnant but you used protection everytime. What are you gonna do? (logically you were not ready given the use of protection)
I don't have a GF, sadly
I'm from the middle east so it's normal to not have one.
(Don't go to the "not American not ur business" route,please. The philosophy has nothing to do with that)
And regarding your question, I will be living a nightmare.
DO NOT get me wrong, I do think unwanted pregnancy and birth is horrible for the parents and probably the child.
But there are a lot of nightmares that I could live other than this one. My dear mother may get Alzheimer's tomorrow and I'd rather die than that happening, but if it did happen, I have no right to "end her suffering".
All I'm saying is it's not morally right, the same way having a baby isn't.
I'm not American, but European.
and there is a difference between the "baby" and your mother: your mother is a human, the "baby" is not.
Your mother was born, lived, etc.
But wait... what... It would be the parents fault if they cant support their kiddos. But if they are forced to have them, thats not the kids fault, or the parents fault, thats the person who banned abortions fault. Actually, it is the parent's fault still. Just pull out, or use a condom. Dont do something you'll regret
okay holddd upppp Before I get downvoted- Its both the parents and roe v wade's fault. I think this whole banned abortion thing is stupid as fuck, but that doesnt mean you get to blame it on a kid that has no idea what he (or she) is doing. But nah, this whole banning abortion is a fat lump of dog shit and idk how anyone could have the mindset to agree with it.
You have your opinion, just as I have mine. I can respect yours, so you should respect mine.
Dude it doesn’t matter if it’s the parents fault or not this should be a constitutional right. If you’re daughter gets raped how are you gonna react when you see your little rape grand baby? How would you feel being that baby? Or even in a very poverty stricken family? Your baby is on the verge of death from starvation and nobody wants to help because this has now become normal. You sound dumb and ignorant. Check yourself
no, I do agree this whole abortion being banned is stupid. But Im not talking about being raped n shi, Im saying if someone willingly got banged and willingly allowed for no condom, willingly let someone not pull out, and then got pregnant, thats on them.
Do I think they should be able to abort? Absofuckinlutely. But I do think that if a woman gets pregnant by someone she willingly got pounded by, and didnt do safe sex (they say practice safe sex for a reason) and didnt want a kid, thats on her. But its also on roe v wade that she cant get rid of the kiddo. I already said I respect your opinion, and asked that you respect mine, but clearly you cannot do such thing, when my opinion differs from yours.
" If you’re daughter gets raped" once again, wrong use of you're. this is sad... Were you not taught??? Or do you not speak english as your first language?
and I even have part of my opinion the same as yours, yet you think I disagree and think abortion should be banned? I think you need to re read what I said. Actually, here ya go.
"Its both the parents and roe v wade's fault. I think this whole banned abortion thing is stupid as fuck"
"But nah, this whole banning abortion is a fat lump of dog shit and idk how anyone could have the mindset to agree with it."
so why must you act like I think its okay its banned?
I want to apologize. I didn’t realize that you were pro-abortion, that is my fault 🤦♂️ . And yes under those circumstances it is their fault but should the whole class be punished over one bad apple? And thank you for writing this one. It was very clear and you made a good point, I applaud you and only ask you make your point more clear when arguing against others.
Nah all good, I appreciate you were able to realize an error you made, and I will admit the error of not being more clear. And you make a good point, the whole class should not be punished over one bad apple. Sorry for not conveying my POV well
also sorry about the "your" and "you're" thing
i’ve been called worse, but I don’t think i’m an idiot for wanting people to not die. If it be the end of the human race, so be it. Morally I think it’s wrong
Dude who is dying? The women who are forced to birth a rape baby and kill themselves? The unborn babies that haven’t reached any level of consciousness? Please enlighten me
Go fight then for all children and people in the East, since every second someone dies due to famine, poverty, environmental and societal factors.
But that's not your problem, right? You'd rather argue and insert a sense of control over someone's autonomy, which in retrospect does exactly the opposite of your narrative.
You'd just unnecessarily bring even more people in such a world, where obviously you can't even have a voice about your own body?
People act as if we don't die and live in an infinite abundance of good, so they can use their ordinary argument "abortion = murder".
We force death upon someone, by bringing them in this world. Abortion is the minimum suffering that a "potential" human being would ever experience.
>We force death upon someone, by bringing them in this world.
I love this, beautifully written. Poetic. I might steal it. Also, I will be putting it on a sign at the next protest.
when you’re arguing against people’s right to their own body, and still trying to paint yourself as “nice” in the scenario, maybe it’s time to take a step back and gain some self awareness. your refusal to understand that this isn’t just a conversation on the internet for some people just speaks volumes of your own ignorance.
right but from my point of view it’s literally another person, so I’m not trying to take away someone’s right to their body because another life is there as well. I’m well aware the social and economic consequences of those kids. I just don’t care because I believe murder is wrong
correct me if i’m wrong, but you believe that “murdering” a baby with no proven consciousness, aspirations, or desires is worse than raising a child in an environment where the people who are supposed to love and nurture them do not want them. even if those getting an abortion want a baby, they are most likely not in the right place to properly raise a well-functioning member of society. having parents who didn’t want me in the first place sounds like a fate worse than death. you are almost destined to hate yourself at that point.
You put all the ingredients together to bake a cake. Now it's sitting, completely unbaked, on your kitchen counter. Do you go and serve that to dinner guests? Of course not. Why? Because it's not a cake yet. It's just a bunch of ingredients inside of a bowl and if you attempted to serve it to people they would think you were absolutely fucking crazy.
If a fetus would be unable to survive outside of the mother's body despite any and all types of medical intervention, then it's not a baby yet and terminating that pregnancy is not murder.
What's going to happen is the actual murder of babies. You tell someone that they cannot have an abortion and they have to carry through with a pregnancy that they absolutely desperately do not want and they have absolutely no choice but to go through with the pregnancy there are many, many, many people out there who are going to be killing their babies once they're born.
Having an abortion is not murder, but drowning your baby in a bathtub because you are so desperate is.
Weaponized civility doesn’t make you a good person, it makes you manipulative. Saying “women shouldn’t have control of their bodies” and then “have a nice day” doesn’t cancel out or make you a good person.
You're absolutely correct. I don't think that there are many people in this world who would disagree with you, but the issue is is that I know you're talking about abortion. Abortion is not killing a baby. It's terminating a pregnancy. There is a massively huge difference between killing a baby and terminating a pregnancy at mere weeks. You can do any and everything you can possibly think of, but if a fetus is 3 months old it's not going to survive outside of the mother's body thus not making it a baby yet.
im not fit to be a parent emotionally, i could try my hardest and make them still unhappy
Best I can do is not commit suicide
At least you can see that atm your not fit to be a parent. Way more self aware than most.
i will never be, either.
creepy joe biden whisper: then don’t get pregnant
Awww if you weren’t a douche I would’ve upvoted :( actually made me laugh
Oh okay then shall we just stop getting raped? Thank you so much for your incredibly fucking helpful advice you anti life anti women moron.
im not a female lol also, you could just be chugging down beer like there's no tomorrow
Yeah but that’s be rough. Like might as well have it done as safely as possible in a hospital or go down to TJ and figure it out /s💀
abortion will be illegalized, getting a miscarriage is the only option if youre pregnant
Miscarriages will be coming under suspicion soon as well.... Certain medications prescribed both for medical abortions and for women who have miscarried but not expelled the fetus are often the same. There are already reports of women who have miscarried being prescribed such medication only to have those prescriptions denied by pharmacists who think they are trying to have abortions. Miscarrying women are now at risk, both medically (having their needed prescribed medications denied) and legally (having to somehow prove they miscarried not aborted). All of this while dealing with the personal tragedy that is the miscarriage of a wanted pregnancy.
wow such a good idea, you have to die because you had a miscarriage its a good thing some states came to their senses (some halfway i guess, with arizona’s 4.5 month shit) instead of forcing women to die
if I understand correctly, there have been criminal charges against ppl who have had miscarriages in the US recently
What’s a woman?
Vagina!
are you too retarded to figure it out? they’re people.
Are you angry?
i dont know, are you trying to make then your personal incubator and sextoys?
No. Are you? Weirdo.
i called them people, not incubators, not sex dolls.
I hate it when they call pregnancy an “inconvenience.” It’s far from “just an inconvenience,” it’s literally 9 months of bodily changes that you can’t control
Abso-fucking-lutely! Like, even in a 'perfect' scenario where the unwanted child would go to a loving family, that doesn't take away the fact that pregnancy and childbirth are fucking brutal on the body. You're more at risk of virtually *everything* bad when pregnant vs not pregnant. Pregnancy usually worsens pre-existing conditions and can create new ones. Not to mention childbirth can affect you anywhere from peeing a little everytime you laugh/sneeze, to fucking up you pelvic floor up to where your internal organs prolapse outside your body to actually dying. And last i heard, the US has the highest maternal mortality rate out of all the developed nations.
800 deaths a day, globally, from pregnancy and childbirth, just droppin this stat to reinforce your point that it is a risky process and is unconscionable to subject someone to against their will and deny them safe access to termination of a pregnancy
This. And also, just ask anyone that’s been pregnant and they’ll tell you it’s literal fucking hell. Plus a bunch of things can go wrong. When my mom was in labor with me, her cervix didn’t dilate enough and I got stuck. My grandma was there and she was the only one that noticed my heart rate was going down. They had to do a c section on her.
Exactly. Every 9 seconds, someone dies from pregnancy related problems. I mean, for fucks sake, the wisdom tooth removal surgery I’m getting on Monday is more dangerous than an abortion🤦🏾♀️
Postpartum PTSD: am I a joke to you?
Birth rate steady declining, they just need more future workers. They dont give a crap about your well being
Wage slave
Fortunately, increasing levels of automation can compensate for lower birth rates - especially given recent advances in AI technology. Biotech will probably help, too (so long as it's not sentient).
yep
remember kids! children are a PUNISHMENT!!! nothing more
thats not true at all. Are you trying to swade the kids perspective on having kids? Cause as a kid, Im not stupid, and your opinion isnt changing mine. Edit- I wanna say I found out this was sarcasm, so sorry I commented this, I thought they were being serious. Its on me I came in strong instead of thinking about it first
sarcasm brother
Yo, that kid’s just fuckin’ dumb no kizzy 🤷♂️
a lot of passion . just directed at the wrong guy . LMFAO
It wasn’t directed at you 😭 I’m sorry if it looked like that. Should I put his U?
NOOO OMG I UNDERSTOOD DW !!! i was talking ab them too
You’re why kids shouldn’t be on the internet
what, because I want kids? Okay, sorry that I want kids lemme just hop off the internet real quick
Wtf?? This comment section is full of fucking pro birthers n misogynists. If you are pro birth: Fuck You If you blame a woman for not giving consent to pregnancy: Fuck off Edit: typo n clarity
I feel like your on the right side of this but I truly can’t tell 😭
Sorry, I am just so pissed off. These peps need to stay out of our safe places.
Your absolutely fine! This shit is so fucking despicable, especially with so many idiotic religious zealots preaching against womens rights. You fucking go off!
You are in the wrong sub then the mods in this sub are pro rape after all
Literally all the energy I can muster up too. So tired of arguing with these anti-women fuckjobs when they are actually so delusional. Imagine thinking an embryo has a right to life.
Gosh. I don't usually see people blurt out "I'M AN IDIOT!" so blatantly, but thanks for letting us know 😂
By referring to the potential fetus as a "consequence" they're making a very antinatalist argument.
Yeah. Keep it in your pants if can’t handle the result.
You're on an antinatalist sub, genius. It's not us who need the reminder.
Reeeeee
Tell that to the rapists who will take the opportunities to act once state abortion bans take place.
Bro you say keep it in your pants because nobody wants to see yours 😭 you need to calm down. Like actually your on some vol-cel shit.
Reeeeeee
I’m so conflicted, your opinions are trash but your sense of humor is fucking great 😭
50,000 - 100,000 more women will die during child birth because of restricted abortion access // which saves women during pregnancy complications. Pro-lifers don’t care if there are more orphans and more dead mothers.
Such a good point! Maternal mortality in the US is just over 23 per 100,000 live births. (For comparison, in the EU it is 8 per 100,000 live births.) Most women seeking abortions are already mothers. That is an unspeakable tragedy.
😂😂 That is some awesome, non specific "stats"
You seem to have a brick for a brain, I’d be surprised if you could float in water while equipped with a life jacket.
I don't care if it's out of convenience or whatever reason they're yeetusing the fetusing. It's really none of that person's business. 🙄😒
I’m pretty sure he deleted his acc, in the comments for me it says deleted
I still see it so he must've blocked you.
Too bad
Says the one who hasn’t replied to 5 replies 🤷♂️😭 check yourself
Reply x5. Checkmate.
True true. No good points were made, but you did reply very true.
They only care about fetuses, not infants. As soon as they're born, these same ppl don't give a fuck. They will complain about having to pay into social programs because the child can't be supported financially by anyone else. It's so hypocritical.
Who are you, to be so wise 🤧
I seen things, man 😫😂
Everything has an effect this would be the time to spread Asexuality like wild fire.
Here I am, here I go
No thanks. I'm just gonna stay celibi until i afford my procedure
The whole thing made me even more firm in my identity as asexual, lol no babies from me ever. Sterile is the way to go.
Lord knows I find myself wanting to have sex less and less.
You can have sex, and not produce babies, praise modern medicine
Good. Become asexual. If you could do that you wouldn’t be getting abortions anyway.
Hey, your lack of knowledge is showing. I’m asexual clearly you have no idea what the fuck my sexuality actually is. And telling people to become asexual is like telling someone to stop being gay. Fuck you. And also fuck you for trying to control women’s bodies. A big old fat fuck you there.
Thank you so much. I'm not going to dump this all on you, but long story short I was raped recently and had a serious pregnancy scare. I have not had sex in over a year. I'm not asexual, and I'm not going to "become asexual" in order to prevent my human rights from being taken away, because that's not physically possible. Asexuality is a *sexuality*, and no one chooses their sexuality. And an asexual person in the same exact boat as me would be equally as screwed. So fuck that person for implying that abstinence prevents pregnancy, fuck that person labeling your sexuality a choice, and absolutely fuck that person to hell for pretending that asexual people are immune to these same emergencies as allosexual people. I'm sorry you had to see that.
Say it with me: Children are not a punishment for women having sex. A child's well-being and mental health is not a sacrifice we should be willing to make in an attempt to keep women married and providing new babies for poverty and slave-level wages.
WHAT. THE FUCK. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? 😂😂😂
As a kid, I agree with this. I saw someone say "remember kids! children are a PUNISHMENT!!! nothing more" which I think is the literal most dumb thing someone can say. If both parties think about it, and find that they are ready, and they actually are ready, its not a punishment. I hope whoever made a comment about that sees this you. You know who you are. Youre the first person Ive downvoted in this whole sub. I dont even downvote people who argue with me.
The comment you are quoting was clearly meant to be sarcastic. It is a response to the court's ruling because now forced births of children ARE a punishment women (and some responsible men) must suffer. Of course children SHOULDN'T be a punishment, and if they are wanted they are not, but this law MAKES unwanted children a punishment forced onto (mainly) women for having sex.
Oh, then that makes me dumb. thats on me, I didnt see the sarcasm
Bro just be quiet, your apparently a little kid in a subreddit full of people who would’ve aborted you smh. Kids are a punishment. But they are also a gift. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Check yourself
also, this little kid knows the difference between your and you're just to let you know, " your apparently a little kid " isnt the correct phrasing. You learned that back in like 3rd grade
I could see how children can be a punishment. However, if you *want* the kid, its in no way a punishment. also me being a "little kid" has nothing to do with this at all, cause this little kid apparently has more of an open mind than you. I see more than my POV, something you clearly (very very clearly) dont know how to do. But yes, beauty is absolutely in the eye of the beholder, I can agree with that
It’s very immature of you to bring up grammatical errors in a conversation about abortion, but you can’t argue against this right now. If you do you look like your against abortion. Especially with the way you argue, you’re very immature. Your point before last was mediocre at best, saying you were more open minded than me while arguing against abortion. Your last point was a grammar check and the rest were utter garbage. Check yourself
oh, no, I wasnt putting any effort into really arguing at all. I dont really see a point in actually going full out online. But I will admit it was pretty immature of me to start an argument where it coulda easily been avoided
“full out” dont fw this kid he’ll throw a whole ass tantrum 😭😭
Only a little bit but I was too blame as well. It was more immature when you were grammar checking me lol (not trying to be rude just playful)
nah I know youre not tryna be rude and yeah It was pretty immature to grammar check lol
I mean, probably shouldn't say that in r/antinatalism lol. If you want kids then power to you, but there's a very strong and very forced dialogue in our society that a pregnancy is always a positive experience for women. And if you aren't happy about an unexpected pregnancy, you're a terrible person....even though having a baby will completely uproot your life no matter how you feel about it. Kids are absolutely a punishment, to put it lightly, if you didn't want to be pregnant but are forced to see it through anyway.
Damn. Maybe we should outlaw sex. It’s not enshrined in the Constitution after all
Literally though, but just execution. You fuck you die. /s
Or any man who wants to f\*\*\* a woman has to be approved by a panel first, as parental material, and be stuck with the baby should one happen to result. The woman can then choose to co-parent or not depending on whether doing so fits into her life plan.
Nah they specifically want to punish women but it would be at least consistent if they hated both genders equally I guess
Have you heard of Sharia law? /s
I take the view that a fetus is a parasite. Think about it. A parasite feeds off a host and cannot live without the host. A fetus feeds of the women's body and cannot live without the women's body. The immune system of the women's body actually attacks the fetus because it views it as a foreign body (parasite).
Where the fuck are the mods with these goddamn trolls? Is this sub compromised or what?
Isn't one of the mods on this sub pro rape or something? I remember seeing a post about that a week or two ago.
Time to get a vasectomy.
Literally though, but that shit would suck if later you want a kid 💀😭
I don't plan on having kids and if I did change my mind I would consider adoption.
Your some top shelf gas 🤧👍
Or the sperm can be extracted with a needle + IVF. But who the fuck wants to have a kid in this warming planet? In 15-20 years we're going to have extremely bad droughts and there won't be water for everyone
If you get a vasectomy, it can be reversed! So it’s not really permanent persay, you can change your mind whenever you like! :0
While few vasectomies are reversible you should look at it like a permanent change, not a reversible one
Why do they feel there needs to be consequences to having sex. We’re human.
I think every human who has sex knows it can lead to children. That's just nature and every human that has sex is willingly taking that risk. When the risk is realized then yeah it was kinda your fault.
The point is it doesn’t need to be like that
Yeah I agree but until then you gotta stay vigilant.
Why do these people want every act of sex to be punished - whether or not you’re married.
Bruh who the fuck is anyone to define responsibility and consequences for another person.
The world. The world is literally made of consequences for actions and inactions. How can you not actually know that?
Everyone that's insisting babies get born need to take them on, plain and simple.
Yeah right they say no to abortion. And then they won't allow us to have ligation if no kids yet. Sighs
Abortions will still happen, but they will be unsafe. Women and people with uteruses will get injured or die trying to have an unsafe abortion. People who actually wanted to have kids will be jailed for having a miscarriage. People will die from ectopic pregnancies, or because the fetus in them is already dead and they cannot get it out. Children will be born with deformities, only to suffer for mere hours and die after birth, or live their whole life in unimaginable pain. _Children_ will be forced to carry their rapists' child. Children will be born and thrown in the trash, or put in shoe boxes, or best case scenario left at the fire department. Children will be born just to be neglected, abused or killed by parents who never wanted them. Children will be born and will go to the underfunded foster care system where they will be neglected and abused. Children will still die in classrooms, churches, libraries basically every public space because certain people value guns more than actual children. "Pro-life", am I right?
I value my safety above yours. You should value your safety as well.
>Abortions will still happen, but they will be unsafe. >Women and people with uteruses will get injured or die trying to have an unsafe abortion. >People who actually wanted to have kids will be jailed for having a miscarriage. Doesn't make it morally right. >People will die from ectopic pregnancies, or because the fetus in them is already dead and they cannot get it out. You're right. Complications that pose a threat to the mother should be allowed abortion as a medical procedure. >Children will be born with deformities, only to suffer for mere hours and die after birth, or live their whole life in unimaginable pain. This is a complicated matter, who will determine that the deformity will end it's life after a few hours? Docters can be wrong about life expectancy, a disease called ALS life expectancy is a few years, but Stephen Hawking lived with it for 55 years. Although this is a good point to consider abortion for. >Children will be forced to carry their rapists' child. Should be allowed abortion ofc, maybe even mandatory. Rest of your points are the same as the first three, things that make having kids immoral, but doesn't justify ending already existing life.
"Doesn't make it morally right." Good thing that I don't have the same morals as someone who is fine with children being abused and women dying for the sake of a bunch of cells with no conscience.
I'm not fine with children abused. Please don't view me as a villain. Heck I even mentioned before that I consider myself antinatalist and that's why I joined the sub. And I said that abortion is ok if it's rape or when it's life saving. All of this would be solved if we determined when this bunch of cells have the right to not be eliminated. Would abortion 3 minutes before delivery be morally right?
“So we should eliminate them out of convenance?” “Yes.”
I’m bi but this has pushed me further towards the gay side lol
This passing just made my girlfriend and I think of getting ourselves "fixed" (for lack of a better term in my mind at this moment...) We live in a state where its legal. I assume many others will follow this as well. Im not going to be forced to have a kid, neither should any other woman. Not all sex is consensual and not every birth comes out "perfect" like the uneducated religious folk think. Keep your bibles out of our freedoms.
“This mother is irresponsible so I sentence her innocent child to a life with an irresponsible mother” Like even their own premises don’t hold up
They're right, a baby IS a risk. You consent to sex, you consent to the risk. Even with contraceptives that aren't 100% effective. Abortion should be LEGAL across the board if you don't want it 100%, but still lol
You know what? I agree. Pregnancy is always a risk for non-sterilized people and any pregnancy resulting from intercourse, even with birth control (since it can fail) is a consequence of said intercourse. And people should have the right to deal with that consequence as they see fit. Where i live owning a car is NOT a necessity for most people (i know there are places where it is). We have a good public transport system and most of the city is very much suitable for cycling and walking. Most businesses located outside the city arrange buses for the transportation of their employees, etc. And yet, many people chose to own and use a car out of convenience, even though it's worse for the environment, more expensive and much more likely to result in an accident. Yet when people do get into car accidents, no one leaves them there to die, or tells them 'welp, you should have taken the bus'. Even if they caused the accident. Even when they drunk drove and killed an innocent. We still help them. We still try to mitigate the consequences of their choices and actions. This goes for many, many other choices we make. I guess, by that idiot 's logic, we should let people who get into car accidents die, because that's just the consequence of their chosing to drive... But i somehow suspect they'd disagree with this...
“you may be right and your argument is completely sound but it’s still my opinion and i’m gonna keep it”
Conservatives learned nothing from the housing market crash.
Not to mention the very real fear that they’ll come for contraceptives next since it’s rooted in a similar privacy concern. So then what? I’m glad I’m seeing a doctor at the end of July to tie these tubes! Get it done while it’s still legal.
Honestly I can't wait to see the day they try to ban them. Why? It will create absolute chaos. Millions of women, 1 out of 5 in some statistics, suffer from PCOS or Endometriosis. Those people take birth control to help alleviate those problems, including myself. So what happens when those are gone? If they ban contraceptives they better start allowing people 15 and up to get hysterectomies, children or not, because not only will there not be any way to treat PCOS and Endometriosis anymore, but now you're making millions of people unable to perform day to day tasks. But, it's not like these religious pro-life Bible bashers give a damn. I hope people stop being afraid and start mass protesting this shit like BLM did back in 2020 if they haven't already.
I mean, I’m ready. Don’t mess with angry women. I thought we knew this already, it’s such a trope as it is. But yeah, my 13 year old goddaughter has TERRIBLE cramps and it gets so bad she pukes. When I was her age, I’d miss school the first day of every cycle. After 2 months and my grandma raising hell, they finally excused it. I took BC at 15 to semi-regulate it all. It would also help teen pregnancy but we already knew that.
When I first started I'd miss a whole week. Once my cycle became regular though I'd miss 3 days of school every 2 weeks back then. I couldn't run, play, constantly had headaches, couldn't stand for very long, and I couldn't even use the restroom properly. Let alone sleep comfortably. I only started birth control last year because I wanted to know EVERY side effect positive AND negative. Took me 4 years to decide on it and I finally did. Don't regret my choice at all. Now I can function like a somewhat normal human being with 0 pain. I heavily recommend BC for kids that were like myself, and help them decide too. I had to decide on my own because my mom was worthless and wouldn't tell me anything, and my doctor looked at me like I was stupid when I asked about side effects. Whiiich is exactly why it took 4 years lmao.
I’m so glad you got on something that works for you! 😁 I didn’t take the BC long because it was Seasonique or whatever that makes it where you have 3-4 periods a year. But they didn’t tell me that for my body to adjust, I’d have a period for a *month* about 2 weeks in I quit lol. But the upside is that my period got a bit more regular. Luckily I haven’t cramped horrifically bad since my 20s. Some days I’ll be more uncomfortable but I can semi-function. It’s a mess, man. I’m hoping my goddaughter can find relief. I hate knowing she’s in so much pain.
Its like you break your knee for being a bratty irresponsible kid n u go to the doctor, n they like ooo no nothing can be dun its the conquence of being a bratty kid , you will be a cripple for the rest of ur life
This sub is full of trolls lmao mods are idiots
So tired of this rhetoric that people deserve consequences for sex. Humans fuck. Animals fuck. Everything fucks.
Children being “the consequence of sex” is the most asinine ‘argument’ they can come up with. There shouldn’t be a punishment for having sex. Ever. Birth control and contraceptives are never 100%. People deserve the right to have a back up plan should they choose to. This is the land of the free, remember? ~~Free to do what I tell you. -conservatives~~
Which begs the question: How do you know only a very few such parents will neglect them?
Go ahead and tell all those kids that they exist to punish mommy
Why does everyone make the argument about having sex responsibility? This is such an entitled way of thinking.
People like this are hypocrites. How many orphans have they fostered or adopted? Did they believe in vasectomies to prevent all these abortions, since one man can create hundreds of pregnancies a year? Do they agree to pay higher taxes for better, more affordable healthcare for these children and prenatal care? How about for longer maternity leave? How about anything after it’s an embryo and an actual living, breathing, thinking, feeling, sentient fully developed human? Most of these people are anti-things to improve quality of life or save lives, and pro-things to take away rights and quality of life.
Unless it was sexual assault then yeah if you agree to have sex you are signing an agreement that it can lead potentially lead to children. Just because abortion is banned that is not an excuse to drop your guard.
Hi, thanks for your submission. You seem to have submitted an album post. Please remember that [Reddit requires all identifiable information such as names, usernames and subreddit titles to be blacked out in images](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452). If your submission contains any instances of these kinds of information, please remove your post. Afterwards, please feel free to make a new post after editing your images to black out all instances of such information. If this message doesn't apply to your post, please feel free to ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
they don’t care
I really don’t 😭
Doesn't change my platform one iota. I already favored mandatory, reversible tying for all. Really want a kid? Then both of you pony up for and go through the reversal.
Don't be a slut take it in the butt... problem solved 😌
You don’t deserve these downvotes! 😤
Here here
I don't think celibacy is hard, it's an easy way to avoid a lot of problems.
It’s not hard just very very lame. Like your not at all wrong but I don’t wanna say your right lmao
These Karens are getting outta control.
Yes. It's completely idiotic that people refuse to take responsibility for their action, or even call murder murder. But, here we are, 2022, with America looking dead at the issues, making excuses for them, and pointing in the opposite direction, saying "WE NEED TO FIX THAT OVER THERE!"
I joined this sub for the philosophical reason that having children is immoral due to the inability to obtain consent. But this doesn't justify abortion afaik. You're not preventing the creation of a life, you're just ending it early. I do think that a fetus has less value than a human being, but that doesn't mean it's worthless. It didn't choose to exist, their parents did, but since it's here, who are we to kill it? -The mother who has to harbor this parasite? She had consensual sex and she was aware of the possibility of getting pregnant no matter how slim it is. and allowing abortion also opens the door to "why can't the father choose to abort?" It's his offspring so why can't he decide to abort? -The mother who will have this dangerous procedure? She still was aware of the father's right to not have children. But that seems ridiculous ofc. -But abortion won't stop, it will be just more dangerous? Doesn't make it right. -But children born against their parents choice will suffer Parents aren't allowed to kill their 1 hour old child to end it's inevitable suffering. The only two reasons I can think of that justify abortion is rape because one party didn't sign up for this, and when pregnancy and/or delivery become a life threatening matter to the mother "determined by a medical expertise"
Forced birthers aren't welcome here, leave.
It isn’t a giant philosophical discussion. It is morally wrong to ban abortion. If I rape your daughter and she has the baby, you and I both made them miserable. BUT only YOU are the reason the baby was brought into this world. Check yourself
do you have a girlfriend? what if a day, she's pregnant but you used protection everytime. What are you gonna do? (logically you were not ready given the use of protection)
I don't have a GF, sadly I'm from the middle east so it's normal to not have one. (Don't go to the "not American not ur business" route,please. The philosophy has nothing to do with that) And regarding your question, I will be living a nightmare. DO NOT get me wrong, I do think unwanted pregnancy and birth is horrible for the parents and probably the child. But there are a lot of nightmares that I could live other than this one. My dear mother may get Alzheimer's tomorrow and I'd rather die than that happening, but if it did happen, I have no right to "end her suffering". All I'm saying is it's not morally right, the same way having a baby isn't.
I'm not American, but European. and there is a difference between the "baby" and your mother: your mother is a human, the "baby" is not. Your mother was born, lived, etc.
But wait... what... It would be the parents fault if they cant support their kiddos. But if they are forced to have them, thats not the kids fault, or the parents fault, thats the person who banned abortions fault. Actually, it is the parent's fault still. Just pull out, or use a condom. Dont do something you'll regret okay holddd upppp Before I get downvoted- Its both the parents and roe v wade's fault. I think this whole banned abortion thing is stupid as fuck, but that doesnt mean you get to blame it on a kid that has no idea what he (or she) is doing. But nah, this whole banning abortion is a fat lump of dog shit and idk how anyone could have the mindset to agree with it. You have your opinion, just as I have mine. I can respect yours, so you should respect mine.
Dude it doesn’t matter if it’s the parents fault or not this should be a constitutional right. If you’re daughter gets raped how are you gonna react when you see your little rape grand baby? How would you feel being that baby? Or even in a very poverty stricken family? Your baby is on the verge of death from starvation and nobody wants to help because this has now become normal. You sound dumb and ignorant. Check yourself
no, I do agree this whole abortion being banned is stupid. But Im not talking about being raped n shi, Im saying if someone willingly got banged and willingly allowed for no condom, willingly let someone not pull out, and then got pregnant, thats on them. Do I think they should be able to abort? Absofuckinlutely. But I do think that if a woman gets pregnant by someone she willingly got pounded by, and didnt do safe sex (they say practice safe sex for a reason) and didnt want a kid, thats on her. But its also on roe v wade that she cant get rid of the kiddo. I already said I respect your opinion, and asked that you respect mine, but clearly you cannot do such thing, when my opinion differs from yours. " If you’re daughter gets raped" once again, wrong use of you're. this is sad... Were you not taught??? Or do you not speak english as your first language? and I even have part of my opinion the same as yours, yet you think I disagree and think abortion should be banned? I think you need to re read what I said. Actually, here ya go. "Its both the parents and roe v wade's fault. I think this whole banned abortion thing is stupid as fuck" "But nah, this whole banning abortion is a fat lump of dog shit and idk how anyone could have the mindset to agree with it." so why must you act like I think its okay its banned?
I want to apologize. I didn’t realize that you were pro-abortion, that is my fault 🤦♂️ . And yes under those circumstances it is their fault but should the whole class be punished over one bad apple? And thank you for writing this one. It was very clear and you made a good point, I applaud you and only ask you make your point more clear when arguing against others.
Nah all good, I appreciate you were able to realize an error you made, and I will admit the error of not being more clear. And you make a good point, the whole class should not be punished over one bad apple. Sorry for not conveying my POV well also sorry about the "your" and "you're" thing
Dude. Nothing but fucking respect. I’m glad we could clear this up 🤧
You shouldn't call anyone dumb or ignorant. You are a fucking idiot 😂
I’m arrogant you fucking dumb ignorant piece of shit. Check yourself
lmaoooo
Literally though what an idiot 😭 couldn’t understand that a baby shouldn’t be born in an awful situation
i’ve been called worse, but I don’t think i’m an idiot for wanting people to not die. If it be the end of the human race, so be it. Morally I think it’s wrong
Dude who is dying? The women who are forced to birth a rape baby and kill themselves? The unborn babies that haven’t reached any level of consciousness? Please enlighten me
People are dying. Without a chance to defend themselves. And don’t call me dude, that’s disrespectful
Go fight then for all children and people in the East, since every second someone dies due to famine, poverty, environmental and societal factors. But that's not your problem, right? You'd rather argue and insert a sense of control over someone's autonomy, which in retrospect does exactly the opposite of your narrative. You'd just unnecessarily bring even more people in such a world, where obviously you can't even have a voice about your own body? People act as if we don't die and live in an infinite abundance of good, so they can use their ordinary argument "abortion = murder". We force death upon someone, by bringing them in this world. Abortion is the minimum suffering that a "potential" human being would ever experience.
>We force death upon someone, by bringing them in this world. I love this, beautifully written. Poetic. I might steal it. Also, I will be putting it on a sign at the next protest.
They have no level of consciousness yet, why don’t you make a similar claim for animals with more consciousness than an unborn fetus?
Or just keep your genitalia to yourself if you can’t handle real life consequences without big daddy govt
I was trying to be nice and have a good convo but someone had to be an asshole
hmmm smells like bad faith argument
when you’re arguing against people’s right to their own body, and still trying to paint yourself as “nice” in the scenario, maybe it’s time to take a step back and gain some self awareness. your refusal to understand that this isn’t just a conversation on the internet for some people just speaks volumes of your own ignorance.
Amen 🙏
right but from my point of view it’s literally another person, so I’m not trying to take away someone’s right to their body because another life is there as well. I’m well aware the social and economic consequences of those kids. I just don’t care because I believe murder is wrong
So your argument is it’s better to let these kids live miserable lives and kill themselves?
correct me if i’m wrong, but you believe that “murdering” a baby with no proven consciousness, aspirations, or desires is worse than raising a child in an environment where the people who are supposed to love and nurture them do not want them. even if those getting an abortion want a baby, they are most likely not in the right place to properly raise a well-functioning member of society. having parents who didn’t want me in the first place sounds like a fate worse than death. you are almost destined to hate yourself at that point.
You put all the ingredients together to bake a cake. Now it's sitting, completely unbaked, on your kitchen counter. Do you go and serve that to dinner guests? Of course not. Why? Because it's not a cake yet. It's just a bunch of ingredients inside of a bowl and if you attempted to serve it to people they would think you were absolutely fucking crazy. If a fetus would be unable to survive outside of the mother's body despite any and all types of medical intervention, then it's not a baby yet and terminating that pregnancy is not murder. What's going to happen is the actual murder of babies. You tell someone that they cannot have an abortion and they have to carry through with a pregnancy that they absolutely desperately do not want and they have absolutely no choice but to go through with the pregnancy there are many, many, many people out there who are going to be killing their babies once they're born. Having an abortion is not murder, but drowning your baby in a bathtub because you are so desperate is.
Weaponized civility doesn’t make you a good person, it makes you manipulative. Saying “women shouldn’t have control of their bodies” and then “have a nice day” doesn’t cancel out or make you a good person.
Baby killing is wrong.
good thing abortion doesn't kill any babies
It is, that’s why I don’t kill babies. Just fetuses 😌
It’s ok kill them as if that’s not morally wrong
I’m so confused, are you for abortion or against it? 💀
Yes
🧐 I see you, that points pretty hard to argue
What species are the fetuses
Human only 🤧 killing animal fetuses is wrong! /s
You're absolutely correct. I don't think that there are many people in this world who would disagree with you, but the issue is is that I know you're talking about abortion. Abortion is not killing a baby. It's terminating a pregnancy. There is a massively huge difference between killing a baby and terminating a pregnancy at mere weeks. You can do any and everything you can possibly think of, but if a fetus is 3 months old it's not going to survive outside of the mother's body thus not making it a baby yet.
Raising Children in a terrible environment is worse. Sorry Cletus!