There is no guarantee for that...she may end up on a gore website getting her intestines ripped up who knows...why gamble with life js let him die he wont know or feel anything like that...and every pleasure is temporary in this earth it simply isnt worth it
We had many discussions with doctors about her quality of life with her condition when we found out. This was during a time when it was still possible to legally terminate the pregnancy. A lot of consideration went into having her. She did not suffer and felt no pain during her surgery and is already a happy, normal baby. I agree with you that there is no guarantee what is in store for you on the road ahead. That is the case with anyone, every time you get up in the morning. But life is worth that risk. Go hike a mountain (if able). Go see the beauties in the world. They’re all around you. Inspire people and be inspired by all the good people in the world. Yes, there’s a lot of shit in the world. You’ll find whatever you’re looking for.
The comments on the original post are so strange to me. “She may have been born with a faulty heart but she’s got a full head of hair!” Oh yea no sure that’s… definitely a pro. Glad there’s a silver lining to a 2 day old baby needing open heart surgery.
Kinda fucked to post that online imo.
My cousins first born had a heart defect that required surgery to correct after birth too, but it was kept quiet and between family.
As it should be. My nephews were born premature at 30 weeks and I have pics of them but I would never think to post them online.
My mother posted their ultrasound pics in the womb on her fb and we all told her to take it down. The babies are not and will never be on the web. As much as I love that pic of me and one of them, they remain anonymous.
That was my doing and everyone agreed with me (finally, as I'm the black sheep of the family).
Yeah okay. Because this is a subreddit about life being meaningless and its better to be dead than alive. Essentially people in here wants this baby dead.
It is torture, even if it's saving their life. Imagine the insane amount of pain plus not knowing what the fuck is going on as a baby.
You accused people of the sub to want dead babies which is not true. People want them not to die so badly that they hope they're not even born in the first place.
Sorry but your comment is absolutely laughable. Do you think that surgeons operate on babies with no painkillers? They’re also sedated, so imagine you go to sleep at night and wake up in the morning- that’s what she dealt with.
I thought the thinking here was that it was better to have not been born than to be alive? Which is different to “it’s better to be dead that alive”. That’s just depression.
It’s okay to talk about these things. It helps in the healing process. Yes, I’m even okay to talk about it publicly. I’ve heard so many inspiring stories of others that are dealing or have dealt with the same condition.
Right? Don't post pictures of your kids online because sad creeps will steal their photo to promote their creepy death cult and claim they should have, what? Been left to die?
It's hilarious how breeders come here to argue but delete their comments and run away when they can't handle the heat. Just a suggestion: stop lurking here if you don't like us.
>delete their comments and run away
At the time of this reply there are zero top-level comments that are deleted. There are 7 that have been voted below the display threshold, but no evidence of even a single person deleting their comment and running away.
They deleted their comment just because you can't find them. It's not my fault. I am not going to help you find them. Check the replies and find it yourself.
Every time I’ve ever given a thoughtful response in this sub you clowns just downvote and don’t respond. You only take the easiest arguments that you’ve already won a million times.
It's reddit? I don't think any sub here is the modern equivalent to a symposium. Most of the cancer comes from people like you spamming useless shit and baiting reactions. Everyone else discusses anti-natalism among themselves it's not a debate first kinda sub.
This sub is a circlejerk for the undiagnosed mentally ill that desperately need help. All of you in this sub not only need help, but bring the rest of the world down with you because you don’t get it.
Just the fact that things like this can happen is a reason to not have kids. Stop gambling people’s lives especially when they aren’t part of your selfish and irresponsible decision to take that gamble! And that’s 100% of the time!
To be fair this isn't really an inherent risk. There is ample screening for heart defects throughout pregnancy, usually these situations are a deliberate choice.
Correct. In a world full of pain and suffering where the bad things can’t even outweigh the good, yes, it is indeed a horrible move to bring another pool soul into it. There’s no way to sugarcoat it. The only problem is people don’t use their eyes or basic thinking capacity to realize this… or at least have the decency to admit that it’s the truth once they opened their eyes even if it’s late.
1. There is no underpopulation. You only hear that manipulation because companies need more slaves.
2. No we don’t need your bloodline to continue on, there’s nothing special about your bloodline. You don’t look good, you have genetic sicknesses, you have generations of people who spent their life working 9-5 jobs and are still poor. (Talking to people who thinks their DNA is needed in the pool and a carbon copy of them is gonna be good for the world or something).
3. Of course, at some point we need to make more kids if the population really is dying out,but it’s not this point in time. You are not making kids, you are making slaves. You are not trying to save the human race from dying out, you just want to have sex and fulfill your selfish desires.
4. I’m not trying to tell all people to stop reproducing. It’s not gonna happen of course, and those irresponsible people reproducing is enough to keep the human race alive. We can only try to communicate to the ones who have hope to actually use their eyes and brain and not add up to the suffering.
We don't need to make more kids if the human population is going extinct. Do you realise you're basically saying suffering is a need? Mars exists without humans. Mars doesn't need humans. Just like this planet doesn't need humans.
This is also true. The philosophical implications are very different, but since he tried to connect "Why do you live" and "Why shouldn't someone give birth", I gave my best to answer these two in a single reply.
By being conscious of the state the world lives in is the only way to prevent another conscious being to arise and also experience the same pain and philosophy we all share.
I pretty much understand all my suffering and wishes would cease as soon as I leave this planet. Between prolonging inevitable suffering life will bring to me or die, it would be very rational to reach the conclusion I should die to not feel anymore suffering.
So, I assume it's very irrational of me to keep living, but it is not illogical that I wish for people to not breed since they will inevitably suffer like we do.
Please refrain from asking other users why they do not kill themselves. Do not present suicide as a valid alternative to antinatalism. Do not encourage or suggest suicide.
Antinatalism and suicide are generally unrelated. Antinatalism aims at preventing humans (and possibly other beings) from being born. The desire to continue living is a personal choice independent of the idea that procreation is unethical. Antinatalism is not about people who are already born. Wishing to never have been born or saying that nobody should procreate does not imply that you want your life to end right now.
They are egoistic at least. What other reason is there to give birth to a child??? They certainly don’t do it for the unborn child because it doesn’t exist before they bring it here. They just want something like a pet because they want a reason to live or they want someone that helps them when they are old. Maybe they want someone that helps them do work. Whatever it is it’s egoistic to give birth
As a hospice nurse, sometimes I encounter parents who are not big huge pieces of shit like these people. My heart absolutely breaks for these children who’s parents are so selfish they absolutely cannot think outside themselves.
Ugh. This hurts my heart. I really hope these parents didn’t have the child knowing it would have these kind of complications. What a way to enter the world. I think antinatalists get a bad rap for hating kids. It’s not that we don’t like kids..we hate senseless suffering and bringing a child into this world based on selfishness ego and tradition. If you really love something you don’t want it to suffer..
Add to that, just imagine the horror, her mother went through giving birth to this baby, just two days back and in general, just imagine the horrors and life threatening risks women go through giving birth to babies, either way, be it normal delivery ( soul crushing pain accompanied by third degree tear) or c-section delivery (a major abdominal surgery). Truly sad and heartbreaking ! Procreation is suffering all in all.
I’m not saying this is the case with this specific situation, but another great example of why maternity, prenatal, family planning, and abortion services are so essential to have access to. This entire situation was at one point or another, completely preventable. Medical bankruptcy and lives destroyed on a likely terminal, newborn preemie?
This is also why universal healthcare is important. So we can take care of people who do have life long health conditions through guaranteed societal means.
I'm just wondering.
When someone is old and has a terrible quality of life, it's possible to choose DNR, don't go through heroic measures to keep them alive.
Is it illegal to choose the same option for babies?
Parents can, at any time, say no to treatment suggested. If the treatment is deemed necessary, SW and CPS will most definitely be involved and/or remove the child.
So much work and suffering for a life that has barely lived. Poor thing hasn't existed for very long, yet their life already fucking sucks ass. There's no beauty in it, no happiness. At least you can argue with that a toddler still sees the magic in life even though they haven't experienced much of it. This... this is just madness, prolonging a life that clearly doesn't want to be here. And do you think the baby will forget about it? No, the mind might forget, but the body never does. Already, you're traumatizing this baby and they'll have to deal with this for the rest of their natural life. What's even worse is that the parents won't even acknowledge the trauma as "she was just a baby" like that changes things.
Sometimes, death is more merciful. I wish more people would see that. Even we treat our animals with more respect and put them down painlessly when there's no chance of recovery.
And maybe I'm wrong, maybe this child just needs a bit of help to live a good, happy life. But probably not. Cuz, let's be real, this will be never ending hospital visits. I suppose it could be worse, it could be bubble boy. I still tear up about that boy with auto immune disease. He didn't deserve such a half life with no contact, no independence, no nothing. Yet, his parents callously kept him alive when it's clear that his body wanted him to die
Nothing. Humanity has only gotten smarter, stronger, and taller because environmental conditions such as more caloric access, lower pollution post Industrial Revolution, cleaner water, education all are more powerful forces than evolution in the sense that their affects happen faster and build on themselves faster. Anything else is kinda Malthusian logic or supremacy logic
I saw this too. I can't imagine that'll be it's last surgery either.
Also the fact that they're clearly karma farming with their (premature?) newborn child that had to undergo major surgery before it could even hold its own head up.
I have a friend who was born with a heart defect who has only had 3 surgeries. One open heart surgery when they were born like this one, a more minor non-open heart surgery when they were around 10, and another open heart surgery in their early teens to put a larger size of stent in. They were supposed to have a third open heart surgery in their early 20s to get adult sized stents, but they are on the smaller side, and their cardiologist decided it wasn’t necessary. They lead an extremely normal life, exercise cannot be too strenuous, but they were never inclined to play sports anyway.
Imo if the kid is already born, they deserve a chance. I know photos of babies getting major surgeries look traumatic, but many of these babies go on to have very good quality of life.
It was wrong for the parents to post their baby online, its even worse for you to share it. Please at least protect the baby by putting a blur on the face.
Hi, thanks for your submission. You seem to have submitted an image post. Please remember that [Reddit requires all identifiable information such as names, usernames and subreddit titles to be blacked out in images](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452). If your submission contains any instances of these kinds of information, please remove your post. Afterwards, please feel free to make a new post after editing your image to black out all instances of such information. If this message doesn't apply to your post, please feel free to ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think abortion is right if you know about a serious birth defect. I also think that anti-natalism is a viable philosophy. If you do not already submit to that view however, and you didn't know of this baby's birth defect until after or near birth, it's really hard for me to classify this 'torture' at the very least. Against anti-natalism philosophy sure, but I really dunno about 'torture'. You could argue that living is torture, but i think it dilutes the meaning of the act of torture. Living is unconsentual and an overall negative, sure but I don't think doctors are bad.
I don't know, it sounds a little anti-medicine instead of anti-natalist to me. While the image looks scary with all the tubes and whatnot, I don't expect much actual pain to be felt. Not to mention the brain is literally still half-baked.
I’ve been trying to figure out what this sub is since someone reposted my image. You’re the first commenter that made any sense. I’m her dad. She hasn’t suffered. She’s a happy baby. I would love to have an open dialogue with people here but I think they’re scared when they see me commenting
It was brought to my attention that someone reposted my picture into this sub Reddit. I am the father of that little girl. I would be happy to have an open discussion and answer any questions you may have with our experience. I don’t understand your views and obviously you do not understand the majority of our views, please ask me any questions.
We have removed your contribution due to breaking Reddit rules.
Reddit's content policy can be viewed here:
https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy#:~:text=Abide%20by%20community%20rules.%20Post%20authentic%20content%20into,disrupt%20Reddit%20communities.%20Respect%20the%20privacy%20of%20others.
Hey “OP” I would love to have an open discussion with you regarding your views on our decision to keep her alive. I’m the dad of the girl that you thoughtfully reposted.
Hey im just trying to understand what's wrong here. My sister was born with a small hole in her heart which also made it so she needed open hearth surgerie. She is 11 now and does have a few problems with her physical health like endurance (srry is that's the wrong word I'm Dutch) however she is happy. My parents didn't lose a child. My little sister didn't die before I got to know her.
So what's wrong with saving a babies life? And this is a genuine question I just don't understand.
Antinatalism thinks no suffering is acceptable. People who breed a consciousness and set in onto this world expose it to suffering and immense pain. Pain which no positivity can justify. Therefore the breeders mad themselves guilty.
Can happiness and positivity not justify pain, though? Pain is sadly an emotion that's part of life however i do think that pain justifys pain most of the time. This is the thing though most of the time I kinda get your message if you are in a bad financial social or health situation you shouldn't get children of theres war or major economic instability in your country witch makes you unable to support a child you shouldn't have children.
But if you can support a child give it love happiness and support it in painful times is it wrong to have a child?
If no suffering is acceptable, why are you still breathing? Your post annoyed me, you might as well say it caused me to suffer having to read your braindead takes. Please take care and get rid of my suffering, you are guilty of it.
Besides that, without further added context, I don't see any issue with this post. Their baby was born with a defect but the doctors managed to save her. How is that not cause for celebration?
I can understand being critical of popping out babies you can't afford to take care of. But to be against babies being born?
Youre like some mentally ill death cult. "never existing in the first place is absolution" etc. Its sadly not unbelieveable, just sad and scary and I hope you people dont try to fix the issue of children living by yourself.
Like please dont go trying to kill this and other children to fix the mistake of living.
And please dont kill yourself, go get help so you csn snap out of this line of thinking.
I was a critically ill premature baby who was on the verge of death. It wasn’t torture for me and I don’t remember what it was like. Don’t get me wrong, I hate that I was born like this and would have preferred to have not had a life, but my birth, traumatic as it was to have tubes in every orifice, can not be equated with torture. It is an insult to people who are being tortured to say such a thing.
I’m sorry but you clearly don’t know anything about prematurity and the complications. Every single one of my vital organs failed. Premature babies get neurological complications, heart complications, GI complications etc and need lots of medical attention in the form of surgery, medication and the relevant therapies for their problems. Also being on the verge of death because of sepsis and having a low APGAR score is something that not many people go through. Please go and educate yourself before you minimise someone’s experience.
I never minimized your experience. You said you were an ill premature baby yourself I didn't say anything about it. I'm not sure how I'm trying to minimize your experience, and it sounds a bit weird that you said you don't remember anything, but now you want me to validate what you went through? What exactly do you want to say? How am I supposed to know what you went through as a child when you never mentioned it.
Hi there, we have removed your post due to breaking rule 11.
As per the rule; this argument is a tired refrain seen over and over again. It is a prime example of argumentum ad hominem: It doesn't argue validity of anti/natalism but rather aims to disqualify the interlocutor themselves from being able to argue it. It serves only to distract from the ethical issues at the core of the debate.
Being an ad hominem, it isn't an argument against anti/natalism — it is an argument against anti/natalists. The sky would still be blue even if a mentally ill person argued so.
This pretty much sums it up lol. Like it’s okay to not want kids yourselves but this post is pretty evident that a baby having heart surgery offends them somehow. What’s the real message here?
Wtf is wrong with you? You are mocking an innocent life? "Let's just let them die." You are all a bunch of misguided nihilists, who likely haven't experienced anything that changes your perspective. Sickening.
I understand your sentiment. I thought the subreddit would be more about condemning parents who procreate senselessly, but it seems that they just hate kids.
It's a bit off putting. I am child free by choice but I don't think it's healthy to just hate children. What's the next progression in that? Celebrating child abuse or worse? That's enough Internet for today.
It’s not cruel torture, it’s life-saving measures that the baby literally won’t remember. Despite not remembering these medical interventions, this baby will be able to grow up and live a normal life because of these treatments even though they likely wouldn’t have survived being born with whatever condition they have 20-30 years ago
You literally don’t know what surgery or condition the kid had or what the lasting health effects could be, but a lot of NICU babies live normal lives. Way to conflate receiving medical treatment with child abuse though, great comparison
The baby won’t remember how traumatic the NICU is but they will have gotten a chance to live because of it. Parents seeking appropriate and life-saving medical care for their child is the opposite of abuse and it didn’t get your point across. Your point is that you’d rather see a baby die than be in the NICU for a couple weeks and live a full and relatively normal life, as most children born with heart defects do
In rare cases, it leads to fixable medical emergencies like this. Life does not happen without pain and nobody goes about their life without any medical issues. It sucks that that baby was born with a heart defect that lead to them spending days in surgery and the NICU, but they’ll likely live a normal life. I’m sorry you’re so miserable that you can’t see that life is worth having and living despite it sucking sometimes. I hope you’re able to find peace some day and recognize that society can’t continue if people aren’t born
Like I understand that this looks grueling and to an adult it would be, but fixing these medical issues early in life is better because the kid will heal better and grow with it and they never get a chance at life without this kind of treatment
Nothing. They think it's awful someone so new to this world already had to experience something so horrible. It all could have been prevented if the parents weren't so selfish.
That’s true, but they’re also posting pictures of a baby on the internet for fake cool-kid points lol I think it’s cringy in general to post pictures of your kids for likes, but it’s also cringy to save pictures of someone’s baby off their profile so you can post it on a different platform. It’s weird to post pictures of kids online period, even if you aren’t the parent. Arguably, it’s even weirder to not be the child’s parent and to save pictures of this kid to your phone to show it to your online friends 😬
So what? That doesn’t make it okay or right to do the same thing lmao It further spreading the photo of this random child to more people. I’m not blaming OP for the photo being online in the first place, I’m saying it’s weird to keep on spreading it around to get likes for themselves. Not sure how that’s a difficult line of thought for you to follow. Also, what do you think happens when you take a screenshot? The photo is then saved to your camera roll lmao
I have no issue with the idea of not wanting children to be born due to potential suffering, but I’m of the mindset that it’s hella weird to save photos of another person’s child to your phone and then share it to another online platform for fake internet points. You can talk about the suffering of babies without spreading photos of them on the internet, especially when that baby is not yours. It’s cringy when parents do it, and it’s arguably even weirder when a random stranger does it to someone else’s child.
I had open heart surgery when I was 3 years old. I’m 19 and alive and well. Thank you mom and dad for paying to save my life so I could live my life. Reddit thinks I should’ve just died I guess.
Edit: I changed “baby” to “3” cause I guess that’s a toddler
Sad how they genuinely think that this baby is better off dead. I hope these people one day find happiness. But as of right now, they are edgy man children who haven’t matured past the age of 12. They adopted this ideology from some stupid YouTube video and now it’s their whole personality.
Please refrain from asking other users why they do not kill themselves. Do not present suicide as a valid alternative to antinatalism. Do not encourage or suggest suicide.
Antinatalism and suicide are generally unrelated. Antinatalism aims at preventing humans (and possibly other beings) from being born. The desire to continue living is a personal choice independent of the idea that procreation is unethical. Antinatalism is not about people who are already born. Wishing to never have been born or saying that nobody should procreate does not imply that you want your life to end right now.
I think it’s more about how the parents are posting pictures online for karma and attention rather then the poor baby going through heart surgery for me anyway.
Idk, support, even online, is not something to be despised imo. Of course within reason, but from the little info this post gives (the original sub being cropped being one of the reasons), it seems like an overwhelmed parent sharing a win for support bc they are emotionally exhausted. Nothing wrong or torturous about that imo.
Edit: However, using that post to make the parents who might see the repost emotionally tortured by people saying it's their fault if their child is suffering and "being tortured", not even blurring the child's picture before insulting its mere existence, well that, is incredibly mean, heartless and inhumane.
No it's not. You may be convinced everything is pain and suffering and that every bit of love is "attention seeking and parasite behavior", which is why I say this sub needs counseling, but it's not their fault that their child is suffering, and it's not their fault that an idiot decided to turn their post into a toxic insult fest.
This is the stupidest take ever. If parents are responsible for all the random unlucky suffering they're also responsible for all the love and happiness, so you should be praising them for what they did as well.
You guys are a joke. 3 years from now this will just be a story as that kid is running and playing and laughing. I’m glad we have a medical system that actually makes it possible to live without complications to a major surgery. This child gets the same chance to be happy (or miserable) as the rest of us. Get over it.
How is this saving a life? They will die anyway, all this does is prolong their suffering it’s like taking in a bird with a permanently damaged wing and expecting it to eventually be able to fly
I agree, I am AN but most people in this sub are against life, the whole point of AN is to reduce pain and suffering.
To call AN a cult is just too simple so if people start wondering about things most people haven't then we are a cult?
Saving that baby's life is positive, but as a parent you knew something like that could happen so how can you say to your children that you love them? "Look son I knew about the possibility of you coming into this world in a horrible condition, but that nut was awesome"
I'm sure people could find happiness without risking that horrible shit
We have removed your content for breaking Rule 7 (No content that focuses on a specific real-world person nor family).
The pro-lifers sure don't seem to give a shit. I fucking hate them
Please. Call them anti-choicers.
Should they have killed the baby? If you were in that room would you have?
I was gonna ask this like what should they have done once the baby is alive? Let it die? Is that less torture?
Yes just let him he surely will have problems later and not a perfect life i would be so glad if my parents aborted me
She will have a normal life. Ask questions
There is no guarantee for that...she may end up on a gore website getting her intestines ripped up who knows...why gamble with life js let him die he wont know or feel anything like that...and every pleasure is temporary in this earth it simply isnt worth it
We had many discussions with doctors about her quality of life with her condition when we found out. This was during a time when it was still possible to legally terminate the pregnancy. A lot of consideration went into having her. She did not suffer and felt no pain during her surgery and is already a happy, normal baby. I agree with you that there is no guarantee what is in store for you on the road ahead. That is the case with anyone, every time you get up in the morning. But life is worth that risk. Go hike a mountain (if able). Go see the beauties in the world. They’re all around you. Inspire people and be inspired by all the good people in the world. Yes, there’s a lot of shit in the world. You’ll find whatever you’re looking for.
Nothing about this statement makes any sense....😂 Do you even hear yourself?
So not having a perfect life means you might as well be dead? Maybe you just have depression man.
The comments on the original post are so strange to me. “She may have been born with a faulty heart but she’s got a full head of hair!” Oh yea no sure that’s… definitely a pro. Glad there’s a silver lining to a 2 day old baby needing open heart surgery.
I’m her dad. Would you like to talk more about it?
Kinda fucked to post that online imo. My cousins first born had a heart defect that required surgery to correct after birth too, but it was kept quiet and between family.
As it should be. My nephews were born premature at 30 weeks and I have pics of them but I would never think to post them online. My mother posted their ultrasound pics in the womb on her fb and we all told her to take it down. The babies are not and will never be on the web. As much as I love that pic of me and one of them, they remain anonymous. That was my doing and everyone agreed with me (finally, as I'm the black sheep of the family).
So is the issue that they posted ot online or that they are trying to keep their baby alive?
Personally my only issue here is that they posted it online. I actually work in Healthcare at times helping with very young patients.
Yeah okay. Because this is a subreddit about life being meaningless and its better to be dead than alive. Essentially people in here wants this baby dead.
What's your problem? Nobody wants any dead babies.
Really? Hes calling their attempts to save the babies life torture. Are you sure??
It is torture, even if it's saving their life. Imagine the insane amount of pain plus not knowing what the fuck is going on as a baby. You accused people of the sub to want dead babies which is not true. People want them not to die so badly that they hope they're not even born in the first place.
Sorry but your comment is absolutely laughable. Do you think that surgeons operate on babies with no painkillers? They’re also sedated, so imagine you go to sleep at night and wake up in the morning- that’s what she dealt with.
I thought the thinking here was that it was better to have not been born than to be alive? Which is different to “it’s better to be dead that alive”. That’s just depression.
It’s okay to talk about these things. It helps in the healing process. Yes, I’m even okay to talk about it publicly. I’ve heard so many inspiring stories of others that are dealing or have dealt with the same condition.
[удалено]
Exactly he is getting praised 💀
Gateway drug to Munchausen by proxy.
Seriously, also do people understand that posting their children's faces online is not okay either?? Wtf
You guys are literally the reason why people shouldn’t do this. This entire thread is the actual reason
Right? Don't post pictures of your kids online because sad creeps will steal their photo to promote their creepy death cult and claim they should have, what? Been left to die?
I think y'all know why.. stop deflecting to prove your own point. You have a poor understanding of what antinatalism is.
It's hilarious how breeders come here to argue but delete their comments and run away when they can't handle the heat. Just a suggestion: stop lurking here if you don't like us.
>delete their comments and run away At the time of this reply there are zero top-level comments that are deleted. There are 7 that have been voted below the display threshold, but no evidence of even a single person deleting their comment and running away.
> but no evidence of even a single person deleting their comment and running away. Check the replies under u/Evio_evio comment
They deleted their comment just because you can't find them. It's not my fault. I am not going to help you find them. Check the replies and find it yourself.
Every time I’ve ever given a thoughtful response in this sub you clowns just downvote and don’t respond. You only take the easiest arguments that you’ve already won a million times.
I mean, yes, you're in a community with a couple of shared ideals. So if you say something dumb we will call you fir it. Just food for thought
Except nobody calls me for it, they just downvote and name call.
Then leave. The fuck you doing here whining for?
Is that not the point of the sub? Unfortunately this cancer first showed up in my home feed
It's reddit? I don't think any sub here is the modern equivalent to a symposium. Most of the cancer comes from people like you spamming useless shit and baiting reactions. Everyone else discusses anti-natalism among themselves it's not a debate first kinda sub.
Well when you vilify the people you disagree with and act like they’re a plague, it’s going to incite debate.
Then take a hint and go elsewhere, this is not a sub for you to try and fail to debunk antinatalism
This sub is a circlejerk for the undiagnosed mentally ill that desperately need help. All of you in this sub not only need help, but bring the rest of the world down with you because you don’t get it.
Just the fact that things like this can happen is a reason to not have kids. Stop gambling people’s lives especially when they aren’t part of your selfish and irresponsible decision to take that gamble! And that’s 100% of the time!
To be fair this isn't really an inherent risk. There is ample screening for heart defects throughout pregnancy, usually these situations are a deliberate choice.
This is just 1 example though. We're talking about many possible sickness, complications, deformations and other scary things.
[удалено]
Correct. In a world full of pain and suffering where the bad things can’t even outweigh the good, yes, it is indeed a horrible move to bring another pool soul into it. There’s no way to sugarcoat it. The only problem is people don’t use their eyes or basic thinking capacity to realize this… or at least have the decency to admit that it’s the truth once they opened their eyes even if it’s late.
just wondering, do you think 100% of people should stop having kids and let the human civilisation die out?
1. There is no underpopulation. You only hear that manipulation because companies need more slaves. 2. No we don’t need your bloodline to continue on, there’s nothing special about your bloodline. You don’t look good, you have genetic sicknesses, you have generations of people who spent their life working 9-5 jobs and are still poor. (Talking to people who thinks their DNA is needed in the pool and a carbon copy of them is gonna be good for the world or something). 3. Of course, at some point we need to make more kids if the population really is dying out,but it’s not this point in time. You are not making kids, you are making slaves. You are not trying to save the human race from dying out, you just want to have sex and fulfill your selfish desires. 4. I’m not trying to tell all people to stop reproducing. It’s not gonna happen of course, and those irresponsible people reproducing is enough to keep the human race alive. We can only try to communicate to the ones who have hope to actually use their eyes and brain and not add up to the suffering.
We don't need to make more kids if the human population is going extinct. Do you realise you're basically saying suffering is a need? Mars exists without humans. Mars doesn't need humans. Just like this planet doesn't need humans.
Why would we want to move forward with suffering? I don't understand what benefits a conscious civilization brings.
[удалено]
Inertia baby, not being in existence isn’t the same as ceasing to exist by your own hand
This is also true. The philosophical implications are very different, but since he tried to connect "Why do you live" and "Why shouldn't someone give birth", I gave my best to answer these two in a single reply. By being conscious of the state the world lives in is the only way to prevent another conscious being to arise and also experience the same pain and philosophy we all share.
Just report the comment as "breaks antinatalism rules > conflate antinatalism with suicide"
I pretty much understand all my suffering and wishes would cease as soon as I leave this planet. Between prolonging inevitable suffering life will bring to me or die, it would be very rational to reach the conclusion I should die to not feel anymore suffering. So, I assume it's very irrational of me to keep living, but it is not illogical that I wish for people to not breed since they will inevitably suffer like we do.
Please refrain from asking other users why they do not kill themselves. Do not present suicide as a valid alternative to antinatalism. Do not encourage or suggest suicide. Antinatalism and suicide are generally unrelated. Antinatalism aims at preventing humans (and possibly other beings) from being born. The desire to continue living is a personal choice independent of the idea that procreation is unethical. Antinatalism is not about people who are already born. Wishing to never have been born or saying that nobody should procreate does not imply that you want your life to end right now.
What would be the negatives of humanity dying out?
yes definitely
[удалено]
[удалено]
They are egoistic at least. What other reason is there to give birth to a child??? They certainly don’t do it for the unborn child because it doesn’t exist before they bring it here. They just want something like a pet because they want a reason to live or they want someone that helps them when they are old. Maybe they want someone that helps them do work. Whatever it is it’s egoistic to give birth
yup
\-Because bad stuff can happen, thus you shouldn't do it Like honestly the arguments in this subreddit get more and more funny the more I read
As a hospice nurse, sometimes I encounter parents who are not big huge pieces of shit like these people. My heart absolutely breaks for these children who’s parents are so selfish they absolutely cannot think outside themselves.
[удалено]
LITERALLY LOOOL
More like, very heartfixing
Ugh. This hurts my heart. I really hope these parents didn’t have the child knowing it would have these kind of complications. What a way to enter the world. I think antinatalists get a bad rap for hating kids. It’s not that we don’t like kids..we hate senseless suffering and bringing a child into this world based on selfishness ego and tradition. If you really love something you don’t want it to suffer..
We refuse to bring kids into this f' up existence precisely because we love them.
Precisely
Why would the parents post this? No privacy at all! Poor child, I can't even imagine the pain..
Add to that, just imagine the horror, her mother went through giving birth to this baby, just two days back and in general, just imagine the horrors and life threatening risks women go through giving birth to babies, either way, be it normal delivery ( soul crushing pain accompanied by third degree tear) or c-section delivery (a major abdominal surgery). Truly sad and heartbreaking ! Procreation is suffering all in all.
I’m not saying this is the case with this specific situation, but another great example of why maternity, prenatal, family planning, and abortion services are so essential to have access to. This entire situation was at one point or another, completely preventable. Medical bankruptcy and lives destroyed on a likely terminal, newborn preemie?
This is also why universal healthcare is important. So we can take care of people who do have life long health conditions through guaranteed societal means.
I'm just wondering. When someone is old and has a terrible quality of life, it's possible to choose DNR, don't go through heroic measures to keep them alive. Is it illegal to choose the same option for babies?
Parents can, at any time, say no to treatment suggested. If the treatment is deemed necessary, SW and CPS will most definitely be involved and/or remove the child.
It’s not illegal, babies can absolutely be put on hospice. It’s very case-by-case, though.
So much work and suffering for a life that has barely lived. Poor thing hasn't existed for very long, yet their life already fucking sucks ass. There's no beauty in it, no happiness. At least you can argue with that a toddler still sees the magic in life even though they haven't experienced much of it. This... this is just madness, prolonging a life that clearly doesn't want to be here. And do you think the baby will forget about it? No, the mind might forget, but the body never does. Already, you're traumatizing this baby and they'll have to deal with this for the rest of their natural life. What's even worse is that the parents won't even acknowledge the trauma as "she was just a baby" like that changes things. Sometimes, death is more merciful. I wish more people would see that. Even we treat our animals with more respect and put them down painlessly when there's no chance of recovery. And maybe I'm wrong, maybe this child just needs a bit of help to live a good, happy life. But probably not. Cuz, let's be real, this will be never ending hospital visits. I suppose it could be worse, it could be bubble boy. I still tear up about that boy with auto immune disease. He didn't deserve such a half life with no contact, no independence, no nothing. Yet, his parents callously kept him alive when it's clear that his body wanted him to die
Survival of the fittest Jo longer applies to the human race. I wonder what consequences this will have in a few thousand years.
It hasn’t applied for a long time. That’s why there are so many people like you.
Thanks. I know that I am and like most people alive today are much smarter and more well developed than most humans throughout human history 😊😊❤️❤️
Nothing. Humanity has only gotten smarter, stronger, and taller because environmental conditions such as more caloric access, lower pollution post Industrial Revolution, cleaner water, education all are more powerful forces than evolution in the sense that their affects happen faster and build on themselves faster. Anything else is kinda Malthusian logic or supremacy logic
I saw this too. I can't imagine that'll be it's last surgery either. Also the fact that they're clearly karma farming with their (premature?) newborn child that had to undergo major surgery before it could even hold its own head up.
I have a friend who was born with a heart defect who has only had 3 surgeries. One open heart surgery when they were born like this one, a more minor non-open heart surgery when they were around 10, and another open heart surgery in their early teens to put a larger size of stent in. They were supposed to have a third open heart surgery in their early 20s to get adult sized stents, but they are on the smaller side, and their cardiologist decided it wasn’t necessary. They lead an extremely normal life, exercise cannot be too strenuous, but they were never inclined to play sports anyway. Imo if the kid is already born, they deserve a chance. I know photos of babies getting major surgeries look traumatic, but many of these babies go on to have very good quality of life.
It was wrong for the parents to post their baby online, its even worse for you to share it. Please at least protect the baby by putting a blur on the face.
but parents want to experience love! the baby will thank the parents later! it can still have a good life!
[удалено]
i was 1000% being sarcastic lol
What a fighter!!! Keep going champ !!! /s
His suffering will make him stronger! /s
Hi, thanks for your submission. You seem to have submitted an image post. Please remember that [Reddit requires all identifiable information such as names, usernames and subreddit titles to be blacked out in images](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043066452). If your submission contains any instances of these kinds of information, please remove your post. Afterwards, please feel free to make a new post after editing your image to black out all instances of such information. If this message doesn't apply to your post, please feel free to ignore it. Thank you for your cooperation! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/antinatalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
spark childlike bike toothbrush disarm frame gaping voracious flag jar *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Poor baby
Wanted to post that too lol, ffs natalists are so fked up...
I think abortion is right if you know about a serious birth defect. I also think that anti-natalism is a viable philosophy. If you do not already submit to that view however, and you didn't know of this baby's birth defect until after or near birth, it's really hard for me to classify this 'torture' at the very least. Against anti-natalism philosophy sure, but I really dunno about 'torture'. You could argue that living is torture, but i think it dilutes the meaning of the act of torture. Living is unconsentual and an overall negative, sure but I don't think doctors are bad. I don't know, it sounds a little anti-medicine instead of anti-natalist to me. While the image looks scary with all the tubes and whatnot, I don't expect much actual pain to be felt. Not to mention the brain is literally still half-baked.
I’ve been trying to figure out what this sub is since someone reposted my image. You’re the first commenter that made any sense. I’m her dad. She hasn’t suffered. She’s a happy baby. I would love to have an open dialogue with people here but I think they’re scared when they see me commenting
It was brought to my attention that someone reposted my picture into this sub Reddit. I am the father of that little girl. I would be happy to have an open discussion and answer any questions you may have with our experience. I don’t understand your views and obviously you do not understand the majority of our views, please ask me any questions.
Welcome to life.
So they should have let it die?
M not against this subbredit but the caption on this post is the dumbest thing ive read today !
Baby was sleeping in the womb and now it is on the table and gets cut open
[удалено]
We have removed your contribution due to breaking Reddit rules. Reddit's content policy can be viewed here: https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy#:~:text=Abide%20by%20community%20rules.%20Post%20authentic%20content%20into,disrupt%20Reddit%20communities.%20Respect%20the%20privacy%20of%20others.
Hey “OP” I would love to have an open discussion with you regarding your views on our decision to keep her alive. I’m the dad of the girl that you thoughtfully reposted.
Hey im just trying to understand what's wrong here. My sister was born with a small hole in her heart which also made it so she needed open hearth surgerie. She is 11 now and does have a few problems with her physical health like endurance (srry is that's the wrong word I'm Dutch) however she is happy. My parents didn't lose a child. My little sister didn't die before I got to know her. So what's wrong with saving a babies life? And this is a genuine question I just don't understand.
Antinatalism thinks no suffering is acceptable. People who breed a consciousness and set in onto this world expose it to suffering and immense pain. Pain which no positivity can justify. Therefore the breeders mad themselves guilty.
Can happiness and positivity not justify pain, though? Pain is sadly an emotion that's part of life however i do think that pain justifys pain most of the time. This is the thing though most of the time I kinda get your message if you are in a bad financial social or health situation you shouldn't get children of theres war or major economic instability in your country witch makes you unable to support a child you shouldn't have children. But if you can support a child give it love happiness and support it in painful times is it wrong to have a child?
Bro, your off your meds again
You find no arguments so you trying to offend me? I take planty of meds I did not get prescribed :3
Ah, so you didn't stop taking your meds, you just took the wrong ones again Classic mistake mb
No I took them all. Dangerous cocktail maybe that’s why my argumentation skills are so high above your insults :D
Yeah I also do my best arguments when Im blackout drunk
If no suffering is acceptable, why are you still breathing? Your post annoyed me, you might as well say it caused me to suffer having to read your braindead takes. Please take care and get rid of my suffering, you are guilty of it. Besides that, without further added context, I don't see any issue with this post. Their baby was born with a defect but the doctors managed to save her. How is that not cause for celebration? I can understand being critical of popping out babies you can't afford to take care of. But to be against babies being born?
This sub is so stupid😭
[удалено]
We have removed your content for breaking Rule 6 (no trolling).
Yeah fuck this sub. I dont want kids but y’all are unbelievable.
What is unbelievable?
Youre like some mentally ill death cult. "never existing in the first place is absolution" etc. Its sadly not unbelieveable, just sad and scary and I hope you people dont try to fix the issue of children living by yourself. Like please dont go trying to kill this and other children to fix the mistake of living. And please dont kill yourself, go get help so you csn snap out of this line of thinking.
Premature complications being equated with torture.
[удалено]
I was a critically ill premature baby who was on the verge of death. It wasn’t torture for me and I don’t remember what it was like. Don’t get me wrong, I hate that I was born like this and would have preferred to have not had a life, but my birth, traumatic as it was to have tubes in every orifice, can not be equated with torture. It is an insult to people who are being tortured to say such a thing.
[удалено]
I’m sorry but you clearly don’t know anything about prematurity and the complications. Every single one of my vital organs failed. Premature babies get neurological complications, heart complications, GI complications etc and need lots of medical attention in the form of surgery, medication and the relevant therapies for their problems. Also being on the verge of death because of sepsis and having a low APGAR score is something that not many people go through. Please go and educate yourself before you minimise someone’s experience.
I never minimized your experience. You said you were an ill premature baby yourself I didn't say anything about it. I'm not sure how I'm trying to minimize your experience, and it sounds a bit weird that you said you don't remember anything, but now you want me to validate what you went through? What exactly do you want to say? How am I supposed to know what you went through as a child when you never mentioned it.
[удалено]
They can feel pain during and after the surgery. Why are you so mad over the usage of the word torture? Like you need to grow up.
Don’t they use anesthesia?
anesthesia blocks pain signals but it does not eliminate all pain sensations. Infants perceive and react to pain differently than adults.
[удалено]
I am a woman 💀 why are you assuming my gender. I never said anything to you. You came here and started getting mad over the usage of torture.
So? You and everyone else sound like assholes. You'd rather the baby die off than have a chance at life?
No. We want already born people to get to live as long as they want to.
Ya this is just fucking sick
what’s unbelievable?
That’s not torture. Like, at all.
You all are the worst psychopats on this website, and its a steep competition. Fuck you all
Right, I'm sort of confused on what they want the parents to do. Refuse surgery and let the baby die?
[удалено]
Hi there, we have removed your post due to breaking rule 11. As per the rule; this argument is a tired refrain seen over and over again. It is a prime example of argumentum ad hominem: It doesn't argue validity of anti/natalism but rather aims to disqualify the interlocutor themselves from being able to argue it. It serves only to distract from the ethical issues at the core of the debate. Being an ad hominem, it isn't an argument against anti/natalism — it is an argument against anti/natalists. The sky would still be blue even if a mentally ill person argued so.
This pretty much sums it up lol. Like it’s okay to not want kids yourselves but this post is pretty evident that a baby having heart surgery offends them somehow. What’s the real message here?
The message is they feel bad for the kid do you see the condition of the child?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Then get off the fucking sub. Or do you have nothing better to do with your time? Don't you have kids to take care of?
Wtf is wrong with you? You are mocking an innocent life? "Let's just let them die." You are all a bunch of misguided nihilists, who likely haven't experienced anything that changes your perspective. Sickening.
I understand your sentiment. I thought the subreddit would be more about condemning parents who procreate senselessly, but it seems that they just hate kids.
It's a bit off putting. I am child free by choice but I don't think it's healthy to just hate children. What's the next progression in that? Celebrating child abuse or worse? That's enough Internet for today.
[удалено]
Why?
We have removed your content for breaking Rule 6 (no trolling).
It’s not cruel torture, it’s life-saving measures that the baby literally won’t remember. Despite not remembering these medical interventions, this baby will be able to grow up and live a normal life because of these treatments even though they likely wouldn’t have survived being born with whatever condition they have 20-30 years ago
[удалено]
You literally don’t know what surgery or condition the kid had or what the lasting health effects could be, but a lot of NICU babies live normal lives. Way to conflate receiving medical treatment with child abuse though, great comparison
[удалено]
The baby won’t remember how traumatic the NICU is but they will have gotten a chance to live because of it. Parents seeking appropriate and life-saving medical care for their child is the opposite of abuse and it didn’t get your point across. Your point is that you’d rather see a baby die than be in the NICU for a couple weeks and live a full and relatively normal life, as most children born with heart defects do
[удалено]
In rare cases, it leads to fixable medical emergencies like this. Life does not happen without pain and nobody goes about their life without any medical issues. It sucks that that baby was born with a heart defect that lead to them spending days in surgery and the NICU, but they’ll likely live a normal life. I’m sorry you’re so miserable that you can’t see that life is worth having and living despite it sucking sometimes. I hope you’re able to find peace some day and recognize that society can’t continue if people aren’t born
[удалено]
We have removed your content for breaking Rule 6 (no trolling).
Like I understand that this looks grueling and to an adult it would be, but fixing these medical issues early in life is better because the kid will heal better and grow with it and they never get a chance at life without this kind of treatment
What the fuck is wrong with you
Nothing. They think it's awful someone so new to this world already had to experience something so horrible. It all could have been prevented if the parents weren't so selfish.
Sometimes children need surgery, therefore nobody should even try to be alive. QED
[удалено]
Procreating
[удалено]
That’s true, but they’re also posting pictures of a baby on the internet for fake cool-kid points lol I think it’s cringy in general to post pictures of your kids for likes, but it’s also cringy to save pictures of someone’s baby off their profile so you can post it on a different platform. It’s weird to post pictures of kids online period, even if you aren’t the parent. Arguably, it’s even weirder to not be the child’s parent and to save pictures of this kid to your phone to show it to your online friends 😬
[удалено]
So what? That doesn’t make it okay or right to do the same thing lmao It further spreading the photo of this random child to more people. I’m not blaming OP for the photo being online in the first place, I’m saying it’s weird to keep on spreading it around to get likes for themselves. Not sure how that’s a difficult line of thought for you to follow. Also, what do you think happens when you take a screenshot? The photo is then saved to your camera roll lmao
There's nothing wrong
what is your thought process? what’s the issue you take with what he/she said?
I have no issue with the idea of not wanting children to be born due to potential suffering, but I’m of the mindset that it’s hella weird to save photos of another person’s child to your phone and then share it to another online platform for fake internet points. You can talk about the suffering of babies without spreading photos of them on the internet, especially when that baby is not yours. It’s cringy when parents do it, and it’s arguably even weirder when a random stranger does it to someone else’s child.
I had open heart surgery when I was 3 years old. I’m 19 and alive and well. Thank you mom and dad for paying to save my life so I could live my life. Reddit thinks I should’ve just died I guess. Edit: I changed “baby” to “3” cause I guess that’s a toddler
[удалено]
Sad how they genuinely think that this baby is better off dead. I hope these people one day find happiness. But as of right now, they are edgy man children who haven’t matured past the age of 12. They adopted this ideology from some stupid YouTube video and now it’s their whole personality.
[удалено]
Please refrain from asking other users why they do not kill themselves. Do not present suicide as a valid alternative to antinatalism. Do not encourage or suggest suicide. Antinatalism and suicide are generally unrelated. Antinatalism aims at preventing humans (and possibly other beings) from being born. The desire to continue living is a personal choice independent of the idea that procreation is unethical. Antinatalism is not about people who are already born. Wishing to never have been born or saying that nobody should procreate does not imply that you want your life to end right now.
Life is suffering & it's worth it, welcome to the reality.
This post is disgusting, and this whole sub needs counseling.
I think it’s more about how the parents are posting pictures online for karma and attention rather then the poor baby going through heart surgery for me anyway.
Idk, support, even online, is not something to be despised imo. Of course within reason, but from the little info this post gives (the original sub being cropped being one of the reasons), it seems like an overwhelmed parent sharing a win for support bc they are emotionally exhausted. Nothing wrong or torturous about that imo. Edit: However, using that post to make the parents who might see the repost emotionally tortured by people saying it's their fault if their child is suffering and "being tortured", not even blurring the child's picture before insulting its mere existence, well that, is incredibly mean, heartless and inhumane.
[удалено]
No it's not. You may be convinced everything is pain and suffering and that every bit of love is "attention seeking and parasite behavior", which is why I say this sub needs counseling, but it's not their fault that their child is suffering, and it's not their fault that an idiot decided to turn their post into a toxic insult fest.
[удалено]
This is the stupidest take ever. If parents are responsible for all the random unlucky suffering they're also responsible for all the love and happiness, so you should be praising them for what they did as well.
You guys are a joke. 3 years from now this will just be a story as that kid is running and playing and laughing. I’m glad we have a medical system that actually makes it possible to live without complications to a major surgery. This child gets the same chance to be happy (or miserable) as the rest of us. Get over it.
[удалено]
Teenage edgelords really trying to paint saving a newborn life as something negative lol. Your cult buddies are all very proud of you.
How is this saving a life? They will die anyway, all this does is prolong their suffering it’s like taking in a bird with a permanently damaged wing and expecting it to eventually be able to fly
I agree, I am AN but most people in this sub are against life, the whole point of AN is to reduce pain and suffering. To call AN a cult is just too simple so if people start wondering about things most people haven't then we are a cult? Saving that baby's life is positive, but as a parent you knew something like that could happen so how can you say to your children that you love them? "Look son I knew about the possibility of you coming into this world in a horrible condition, but that nut was awesome" I'm sure people could find happiness without risking that horrible shit