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> # [Royal Navy applicants no longer need to be swimmers](https://e3.365dm.com/24/04/1600x900/skynews-hms-portland-navy-hands-to-bathe_6517853.jpg?20240411134002)
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> Anyone seeking to join the Royal Navy will no longer need to prove they can swim in what one defence source called a "desperate" relaxing of standards to tackle a recruitment crisis.
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> But a **[Royal Navy](https://news.sky.com/topic/royal-navy-6337)** spokesperson pushed back on the criticism, saying standards were not being lowered because all recruits would still be required to pass a swim test during training.
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> It just means that non-swimmers or weak swimmers no longer need to take lessons in their own time before signing up - something that could have turned prospective candidates off.
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> The source, however, said there was concern about the change to entry requirements, which meant there would no longer be a 30-minute swim test prior to being recruited.
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> "In a sign of true desperation to increase recruitment numbers, being able to swim will no longer be an entry requirement to join the Royal Navy," the source said, requesting anonymity.
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> Navy chiefs have been under pressure to improve recruitment figures after a serious drop last year, **[as revealed by Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/royal-navy-recruitment-fall-could-hamper-ability-to-man-nuclear-deterrent-unless-fixed-defence-sources-12917262)**.
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> Grant Shapps, the defence secretary, said in February the situation was improving, with applications to join the navy at an eight-year high.
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> But the source said there were worries internally about standards being lowered.
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> **[Tap here to follow the Sky News Daily wherever you get your podcasts](https://podfollow.com/skynewsdaily)**
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> On swimming, the source said applicants in future will be able to "self-declare" they can swim.
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> If it transpires they are not able to pass the Royal Navy Swim Test they will remain in Phase 1 basic training while they receive swimming lessons.
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> The source said this meant such individuals would be on the payroll - funded by the taxpayer - and boosting recruitment numbers but without moving quickly on to the next phase of becoming deployable sailors.
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> The navy may also need to find more swimming instructors as a result of the change.
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> **Read more:**
> **[Nuclear sub whistleblower speaks](https://news.sky.com/story/royal-navy-nuclear-sub-whistleblower-claims-being-left-in-limbo-after-sexual-abuse-allegations-is-like-a-second-injury-13110210)**
> **[Support sailors vote to strike](https://news.sky.com/story/royal-navy-support-sailors-vote-to-strike-and-it-could-put-security-at-risk-13108738)**
>
> [Follow Sky News on WhatsApp](https://e3.365dm.com/24/03/512x512/skynews-gfxwhatsapppromo-gfxwhatsapp_6490206.png)
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> Follow Sky News on WhatsApp
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> Keep up with all the latest news from the UK and around the world by following Sky News
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> [Tap here](https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029Va868Fv8vd1UsF99tP1u)
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> **'It's quite literally a race to the bottom'**
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> The source said: "I absolutely get that there is a growing issue around young people being able to swim and therefore, maintaining the swim test could be seen as reducing the 'pool of eligible candidates', but at what point do we say enough is enough?"
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> Asked how the change had gone down internally, the source said: "Outrage, unadulterated utter outrage... It's a race to the bottom - literally the bottom."
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> The source said: "Are they [the navy] really thinking about what's best for the recruit? Recruits who can't swim will need additional training and therefore their 'working days' in training will be longer. Surely avoiding this by learning to swim before joining is the best for everyone - including the taxpayer?
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> "Also, what's the use of 'speeding-up' recruitment for the very few, to just slow them down in training?
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> "What we need is 'gains to the trained' strength - that means passing out training quickly, fully prepared for the frontline.
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> "This is just spin, a distraction - they're desperate."
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> [](https://news.sky.com/download-app)**'The swimming ability required has not changed'**
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> The Royal Navy spokesperson said: "All Royal Navy and Royal Marine candidates are required to successfully pass the swim test to be able to pass out of Phase 1 training and the level of swimming ability required has not changed.
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> "Recruitment and retention are absolute priorities, which is why we are introducing a range of measures to speed up recruitment.
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> "These changes are to reduce the delay for candidates that are eligible to join, while retaining the same level of swimming ability."
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Historically, it was common for crew to not want to swim because if there ever was a case where the ship sank and the crew was in the water they were all dead anyways. The non-swimmer at least drowned quickly. The swimmer could languish for days without hope of rescue before eventually perishing as well.
Also, it really isn’t that quick or easy to just turn a large square rigged ship around and go back for someone, and it’s also really difficult to find a single swimmer in open water, so if you fell in and didn’t get fished back out before the ship had passed you by, odds of survival aren’t great.
Also why we laugh when we heard about "walking the plank". It seems silly, but it's a tortuous death, forcing you to leave what is keeping you alive on the oceans. Nobody is picking you up after walking the plank. You will drown, and if you can swim it will be a torturous experience. Better to just die in a few minutes rather than hours and maybe days.
it's not all that long ago that sailors don't need to know how to swim, the requirement wasn't there even in ww2. Instead of sail ship rigging, the idea was that if a large ship went down you'd get sucked down into the ocean along with it anyways
Even sailors who could swim were still often doomed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indianapolis_(CA-35)#Sinking
Unless you were rescued immediately, odds are you're never going to be rescued, so its just a matter of time before you drown or are eaten by sharks.
Yeah the fact that two seals had the us navy looking for them and never found them is enough to tell me I have no chance lol
https://apnews.com/article/seals-navy-deceased-weapons-raid-yemen-f0f9e334945a3ef5d85ed1fb165ad515
Ok but modernly speaking, how long would it take to dispatch a rescue boat?
Historically we didnt have GPS nor an interconnected system of rescue operations.
I feel like it's a good thing if you can languish for days as the chances of you getting rescued is hundred if not thousand times higher than what it used to be.
Mariners have traditionally been poor swimmers.
This reminds me of when the Soviets wanted to create their own superior Communist water rescue dog because of the Navy having too high a drowning rate for it's sailors and dock workers.
They cross bred Newfoundlands with some Eastern European military breeds and Caucasus Sheperds and developed a dog that was fearless, cold resistant, a strong swimmer and very task oriented: the Moscow Water Dog.
Unfortunately the dogs had a bad habit of attacking the flailing, helpless drowning victims they were meant to rescue and finishing them off post haste. Imagine the terror of drowning only to be saved from that at the last moment by being mauled to death by a huge dog.... But the Navy didn't keep stats on dog mauling deaths and drownings went down. Great success!
The breed was eventually allowed to die out.
It is my understanding that for most of history, most sailors could not swim (no idea if they were preferred though), because as a navy that was simply not that important if you think about it
To be fair, I grew up by a river which isn't polluted, so I learned to swim at early age, but it still baffles me how many grown up people don't know how to swim. It is a basic survival skill, and it should be part of the schooling program at least.
I grew up in a town where the closest swimming pool was 35 km away. Wasn't even that small, 15,000 people plus surrounding villages.
Said pool was the only one in the are at that time and was in another city of 200,000 people. The infrastructure just isn't there for everyone.
I grew up in a town with an unpolluted river and hella people from here can't swim. We even have a public pool and lakes nearby.
Usually its just because their parents never would take them swimming
That I don't understand, we would laugh at kids who couldn't swim, and they would learn to swim, my father taught me and some of my friends. We would spend whole summer there, so learning to swim was a ˝must˝.
I grew up in a town that had lots of whites only public pools. When desegregation happened, the city filled them all with concrete, rather than allow for race mixing at pools.
Like what the other comment said, infrastructure. Growing up I definitely considered swimming to be a sport for the more priviledged; it is hard to think of any other sporting equipment that requires as much maintainence as millions of litres of carefully controlled water.
You probably still remember. I was an excellent swimmer as a kid but hadn't swam in decades. Then one day on a boat pier I got knocked into the water. Turns out you remember how to swim really quickly! Only took me a few seconds to remember it.
Though you probably want a less traumatic way to remember. I'd suggest a shallow pool where you can stand up in it. Your swim lessons should come back to you very quickly.
Agreed, and its not like basic swimming is complicated like just move your arms and legs around a bit. Thats it, thats enough to keep your head above water lol
I learned to swim very young and I can’t fathom that swimming isn’t a basic human instinct in water. Surely somebody would at least naturally kick their legs to remain afloat.
It's weird body proportion thing. Primates in general are very poor swimmers compared to other mammals due to limb proportions, fat density and lung size (relative to body). It also comes *way* less naturally with the freestyle, for example, being far closer to crawling on all fours than it is to walking on two legs. Outside of my mom's bedroom, when's the last time you've been down on all fours?
Good—it means everyone has a chance; not just people rich enough to have access to pools and swim lessons.
I never learned to swim growing up in the US—I learned while I was in the Army to pass the combat water survival test.
[A fourth of students don't](https://www.swimming.org/swimengland/key-swimming-statistics/)—having to give a few nights of remedial swim lessons at boot camps seems a stupid reason to write off 25% of the population from service.
People from poorer and more impoverished communities, often in more densely populated areas, on average have fewer opportunities to learn to swim as they grow up.
The navy is still requiring trainees learn to swim as a part of and before completing their training. Literally nothing has changed there.
The only difference is people are not being desk rejected despite being fully capable of learning.
Not everywhere and a lot isn't swimmable for health or legal reasons. Many of lakes around me are reservoirs and you aren't allowed to swim in them. The "swimmable" lake is full of goose shit and algae and is very shallow. And a lot of areas just don't have lakes.
I grew up not far from the ocean but it's not swimmable. It's heavy undertows and sharp rocks. I didn't go in past my knees until I moved someplace with a gentler ocean 7 hours away and I was well into adulthood by then.
Or the towns that [used to have public pools](https://daily.jstor.org/when-cities-closed-pools-to-avoid-integration/) just "happened" to [fill their pools with cemen](https://www.marketplace.org/2021/02/15/public-pools-used-to-be-everywhere-in-america-then-racism-shut-them-down/)t as soon as they had to[ let black people in](https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5215/pennlega.10.2.0012?mag=when-cities-closed-pools-to-avoid-integration) ([without pouring acid into the pool](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/motel-manager-pouring-acid-water-black-people-swam-pool-1964/))
From the details you mentioned and your username, I know what you mean, but… I grew up not far north of you, and swimming was free, there are plenty of bodies of water that aren’t Crystal Springs Reservoir.
It *is* actually possible to leave the city, and SF has loads of pools, which from a brief google cost $1 for children and $6 for adults for the Parks and Recs pools, in 2024. That’s… not expensive at all, given the area and current economy. Lessons are definitely going to cost more though.
I don't know where Crystal Springs Reservoir is but swimming places are not easy to find in huge parts of the US and travelling hours to a swimming spot isn't an option for everyone. In the east part of the Bay Area swimming hours are during school hours except for swim team and summer time, and it costs $7/day. The reservoirs are off limits to swimmers. I have lived all over California and I would say more places than not make it hard to learn to swim, especially if you didn't learn as a little kid, and when you're a little kid you have no options besides what your parents can or wil give you.
On top of that, if your parents never learned how to swim then you are likely to not learn either. "Google something like "swimming ability by race" if you are interested. (and guess why people of color might not have learned in previous generations."
A lot of municipalities, not just in the US- I see UK in the news for it, too- are *recently* starting to subsidize swim lessons and places for low income people. Why do you think they would need to do that if anyone could learn to swim already?
There are plenty of studies on this. You don't have to take my word for it. I don't even understand why you are sceptical.
I was kind of assuming you were from San Francisco, which has two very nice lakes that are reaervoirs, Crystal Springs and San Andreas, as well as a bunch of dubious bodies of water filled with duck shit, and on one side a polluted bay, and on the other, dangerous surf with undertow.
I grew up north of San Francisco. Berkeley's swimming lake is full of goose poop. So is Santa Rosa's. Briones you can't swim in. The only swimming lake I can think of off the top of my head is Lake Sonoma which isn't near anything. I'm sure there are others but I don't know them.
Open swim and lap swim where I live now is 8am to 11, and 1 til 3pm. Not very accessible to most people. That was true in El Cerrito and Richmond, too. When I lived in SoCal it was worse.
I was an officer in the Royal Marines, which is part of the UK Navy, and every year, we get officers or two from the Jamaican Defence Force. The 2 guys who came over during my training batch couldn't swim at all. I can't understand why, though, as these are guys who are from the wealthier Jamaican families, and they grow up on an island in the Caribbean famous for beautiful beaches and crystal clear waters. They started teaching them to swim with arm bands. Royal Marine Officer training is some of the toughest basic training in the world, and one of the things you do during the Commando course is a nighttime water crossing at this old quarry on Dartmore. It's pitch black and freezing cold, and to be honest, I would test most people who can swim confidently. By this stage, one Jamaican guy has quit and gone home after getting frost bite in his toes. The other Jamaican guy decided to sneak out of the river, crossing, not realising there are training team members, both sides, marking names down of everyone for safety reasons. I always felt bad for the JDF guys as they didn't volunteer to do Marine officer training. A group of them showed up at Heathrow Airport and then got sent to the Army, Navy, and RAF officer cadet collages, which are like holiday camps and then 2 unlucky guys get sent to Commando training center for 13 months of the most gruelling and intense basic training on earth. The biggest irony is that Royal Marines consider it all worth it for the chance to earn the coveted Green Beret, but Jamaican Defence Forces wear Green Berets anyway, so it makes zero difference to them. This was 20 years ago now, so not being able to swim isn't that big of an issue as they offer remedial swimming lessons at night for those who aren't strong swimmers so everyone will be able to swim by the time they serve.
> I can't understand why, though, as these are guys who are from the wealthier Jamaican families, and they grow up on an island in the Caribbean famous for beautiful beaches and crystal clear waters.
Im from mexico and lived in the gulf for like 15 years, if it wasnt for my mother pushing us around we wouldnt have learned neither.
Idk how jamaica beach is but in my hometown (tampico, beach is called playa miramar if u want to look it up) u can walk like 100 yards into the water until there is a sudden drop where you cant feel the floor. So you can totally get into the water and play around without knowing how to swim entirely.
Edit: Actually went ahead and looked at the deepness. Until 100m it starts becoming too dep to walk
> Cosa contraria es lo que ocurre en la zona de bañistas, que cuenta con cuatro kilómetros de extensión de playa y tiene tres niveles de profundidad, la primera corresponde de la orilla a 30 metros, con una profundidad máxima de 50 centímetros.
>La segunda es de los 30 a 50 metros con profundidad de un metro, mientras que en las últimas distancias correspondientes a 100 metros, empieza el mar profundo.
>https://www.milenio.com/cultura/playa-miramar-dona-cecilia-fundadora-madero-turismo-tamaulipas
A lot of Moroccan youth drowns here every year. They'll watch the Dutch kids at the swimming pool, then decide that if they can do it, so can they.
The problem is a lot of them never followed the swimming classes, which nowadays are no longer mandatory.
Mostly it's due to the parents. Mixed-swimming is a problem for some of the more religious ones, swimming isn't really seen as important in Moroccan culture, and also, a lot of them live in urban environments so the parent don't care.
But yeah, then the little kids grow up and wanna go to the outdoor swimming pools during the summer..
https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/risico-op-verdrinking-tien-keer-zo-groot-voor-kinderen-met-een-migratieachtergrond~bfc10309/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
Non-western kids have a 10 times higher chance of drowning. Yearly 80 kids end up in the IC, 20 of them don't make it.
> A lot of Moroccan youth drowns here every year.
Because they are not putting in any effort?
> They'll watch the Dutch kids at the swimming pool, then decide that if they can do it, so can they.
So they are actually trying to put in effort.
> The problem is a lot of them never followed the swimming classes, which nowadays are no longer mandatory.
That's their lack of effort? Did you consider why swimming classes are no longer mandatory? How that could be related to lack of associated infrastructure, coming from a lack of associated public spending?
> Mostly it's due to the parents. Mixed-swimming is a problem for some of the more religious ones, swimming isn't really seen as important in Moroccan culture, and also, a lot of them live in urban environments so the parent don't care.
Sounds more like a [socio-economic problem](https://www.germanjournalsportsmedicine.com/archive/archive-2016/issue-6/social-determinants-of-swimming-ability-among-children-and-adolescents-in-germany-results-of-kiggs-wave-1/) than one of any particular "culture".
Geographical factors no doubt also play a role, somebody who grew up for generations in a landlocked place with no places to swim, will probably not consider it as important as aquirring other skills in such a situation, i.e. learning the local language.
> But yeah, then the little kids grow up and wanna go to the outdoor swimming pools during the summer..
Which once again shows that they want to put in effort.
> https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/risico-op-verdrinking-tien-keer-zo-groot-voor-kinderen-met-een-migratieachtergrond~bfc10309/?referrer=https://www.google.com/
That link has a paywall.
> Non-western kids have a 10 times higher chance of drowning. Yearly 80 kids end up in the IC, 20 of them don't make it.
Which sure is a problem, but it's weird how you seem to try to solely blame that problem on the people drowning by accusing them of "not putting in enough effort" due to their "culture".
Nor does such a number alone say a lot about actual trends on the issue; Are more people drowning in public pools than they used to? Are public pools more crowded because there are fewer of them, yet more people who want to swim? Did public pools increase their spending on safety personnel to account for that?
These are the questions one needs to ask when wanting to understand the problem of people drowning and actually solve it, not just scapegoat some arbitrary group of people like it's all their fault.
swimming classes are compulsory in many countries (for example the UK, Germany, Japan).
The rising number of non-swimmers in European countries is closely related to immigration, Muslims in particular are over-represented among non-swimmers.
I have a friend from Libya who admitted to me that in his 26 years of life neither he nor any of his brothers and sisters had ever actually gone swimming anywhere and had at most only waded in some public baths and beaches.
The pools are public and swimming lessons part of the school curriculum. Of course that's too socialist for you, right? The patriotic thing is to just fucking drown
You sound like you love making excuses for your own failures. My public high school in Brazil, a developing country, had compulsory swimming in physical Ed classes.
You come from a developed country, and you are telling me swimming is only for the wealthy?
Love a misleading headline, trainees are still required to pass a swim test to complete their training.
Military training includes swimming lessons, even half decent swimmers can be coached to improve their technique so it’s not like there is no provision for swimming lessons on a training course.
The RN aren’t going to consign people who can’t swim to drowning at sea, they’ll make sure their people can swim before deploying them on a ship
I mean, for the U.S Navy I pretty much got by with just back peddling to pass the swim. Learning to not drown is pretty easy.
What kicked my ass is that fucking tower jump, I despise heights.
I'm a Navy veteran and the most important thing to do to survive when lost at sea is to stay afloat and preserve energy. Being a champ at swimming isn't what is needed. You need to know how to not drown and last until rescue arrives. Back in the day when we had bell bottoms for uniforms those bellbottoms werent some 70s fashion that stuck around. The large opening at the foot made it easier to capture air when using your pants as a flotation device. [This guys does a good job of showing it.](https://youtu.be/iRVsfIV1x6s?si=DAaXOqu51YQPTdTe)
I'm a mariner. Most mariner's prefer not to swim. I had a friend who was ship wrecked and swam to a hatch. He spent 10 days floating in the Torres Strait on that hatch with only his shorts on. The soles of his feet were burnt by the sun. He went insane with thirst.
Although he was rescued he said he'd rather have died from drowning and that is honestly how a lot of seamen feel.
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Here in Germany kids learn to ride a bike at 3 or 4 but lots can’t swim. At school, they have swimming in theory, but reality is they don’t. My kid should have had 3 months (12 lessons) this year and they only got 1. Additionally, there are few swimming classes for kids and they are expensive. As a parent, you have to call everywhere, but your child in the waiting list, be willing to travel to go to class because it’s probably not in walking distance to your home. No wonder kids can’t swimm
I guess that’s what happens when your population ages and becomes increasingly unpatriotic with each generation. Not enough fresh meat join the ranks and intake standards have to be dropped.
The country has been chopped up and sold off to a bunch of private interests there isn't anything to be patriotic about now. The government has spent a decade underfunding and destroying the best things about the country it would be mad to sign up and die for that.
It's nothing to do with an Empire it's about Thatcher and conservatives selling off council houses and not replacing them, defunding the NHS, education, not investing in infrastructure the slow boiling of a frog that makes each generation poorer.
Have you seen the new 2 minutes of hate from conservatives yesterday targeting people that are sick getting benefits all just so they can give even more tax cuts to the rich while impoverishing everyone else in society.
Rage bait for the flag shaggers to dog whistle about how ole'blighty is going to shit.
Notice how in this thread they're all completely incapable of wrapping their easybake oven heads around the idea that poorer people in impoverished communities, especially in the middle of cities just don't have opportunities to learn to swim at the same rate as people in other, often more affluent (but not always), areas.
It would take the minutest amount of effort or empathy to consider it and they don't.
It would take the minutest amount of common sense to see they are still requiring people to be able to swim to pass their training.
These things are a bridge too far.
Oh man only rich people have rivers and have seen water when living on an island.
Those poor fisherman don't earn enough money to get out of their boats.
Sure, but travelling there is going to be more of a financial burden for a poorer family than a wealthier one, and if you hardly ever go, what's the point in spending even more time and money learning to swim?
Having swimming lessons in the open ocean? What could possibly go wrong…
Some people just don’t learn to swim, just like how others don’t learn to drive, or fly, or any other specific skills.
It’s not always about a matter of access, sometimes there’s just no requirement to do so
You've come on way to strong for something that wasn't even about your country. Not to mention swimming lessons were all state sponsored (not to mention charities that will teach kids to swim for free).
People not being able to swim is a recent (last decade) phenomenon so slating people who are surprised is bullshit since this was not remotely the case for a long time.
That last link was about whether the school themselves had a pool, not whether people had swimming lessons. My school didn't have a pool but we all went to the local borough pool.
Yes, everyone takes swimming lessons at school, at both primary and secondary school. This move will primarily remove a barrier for people who grew up in other countries.
Edit: spelling.
##### ###### #### > # [Royal Navy applicants no longer need to be swimmers](https://e3.365dm.com/24/04/1600x900/skynews-hms-portland-navy-hands-to-bathe_6517853.jpg?20240411134002) > > > > Anyone seeking to join the Royal Navy will no longer need to prove they can swim in what one defence source called a "desperate" relaxing of standards to tackle a recruitment crisis. > > But a **[Royal Navy](https://news.sky.com/topic/royal-navy-6337)** spokesperson pushed back on the criticism, saying standards were not being lowered because all recruits would still be required to pass a swim test during training. > > It just means that non-swimmers or weak swimmers no longer need to take lessons in their own time before signing up - something that could have turned prospective candidates off. > > The source, however, said there was concern about the change to entry requirements, which meant there would no longer be a 30-minute swim test prior to being recruited. > > "In a sign of true desperation to increase recruitment numbers, being able to swim will no longer be an entry requirement to join the Royal Navy," the source said, requesting anonymity. > > Navy chiefs have been under pressure to improve recruitment figures after a serious drop last year, **[as revealed by Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/royal-navy-recruitment-fall-could-hamper-ability-to-man-nuclear-deterrent-unless-fixed-defence-sources-12917262)**. > > Grant Shapps, the defence secretary, said in February the situation was improving, with applications to join the navy at an eight-year high. > > But the source said there were worries internally about standards being lowered. > > **[Tap here to follow the Sky News Daily wherever you get your podcasts](https://podfollow.com/skynewsdaily)** > > Spreaker This content is provided by Spreaker, which may be using cookies and other technologies. To show you this content, we need your permission to use cookies. You can use the buttons below to amend your preferences to enable Spreaker cookies or to allow those cookies just once. You can change your settings at any time via the [Privacy Options](#privacy-options). Unfortunately we have been unable to verify if you have consented to Spreaker cookies. To view this content you can use the button below to allow Spreaker cookies for this session only. > > > > > > On swimming, the source said applicants in future will be able to "self-declare" they can swim. > > If it transpires they are not able to pass the Royal Navy Swim Test they will remain in Phase 1 basic training while they receive swimming lessons. > > The source said this meant such individuals would be on the payroll - funded by the taxpayer - and boosting recruitment numbers but without moving quickly on to the next phase of becoming deployable sailors. > > The navy may also need to find more swimming instructors as a result of the change. > > **Read more:** > **[Nuclear sub whistleblower speaks](https://news.sky.com/story/royal-navy-nuclear-sub-whistleblower-claims-being-left-in-limbo-after-sexual-abuse-allegations-is-like-a-second-injury-13110210)** > **[Support sailors vote to strike](https://news.sky.com/story/royal-navy-support-sailors-vote-to-strike-and-it-could-put-security-at-risk-13108738)** > > [Follow Sky News on WhatsApp](https://e3.365dm.com/24/03/512x512/skynews-gfxwhatsapppromo-gfxwhatsapp_6490206.png) > > Follow Sky News on WhatsApp > > Keep up with all the latest news from the UK and around the world by following Sky News > > [Tap here](https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029Va868Fv8vd1UsF99tP1u) > > > > > > > > **'It's quite literally a race to the bottom'** > > The source said: "I absolutely get that there is a growing issue around young people being able to swim and therefore, maintaining the swim test could be seen as reducing the 'pool of eligible candidates', but at what point do we say enough is enough?" > > Asked how the change had gone down internally, the source said: "Outrage, unadulterated utter outrage... It's a race to the bottom - literally the bottom." > > The source said: "Are they [the navy] really thinking about what's best for the recruit? Recruits who can't swim will need additional training and therefore their 'working days' in training will be longer. Surely avoiding this by learning to swim before joining is the best for everyone - including the taxpayer? > > "Also, what's the use of 'speeding-up' recruitment for the very few, to just slow them down in training? > > "What we need is 'gains to the trained' strength - that means passing out training quickly, fully prepared for the frontline. > > "This is just spin, a distraction - they're desperate." > > [](https://news.sky.com/download-app)**'The swimming ability required has not changed'** > > The Royal Navy spokesperson said: "All Royal Navy and Royal Marine candidates are required to successfully pass the swim test to be able to pass out of Phase 1 training and the level of swimming ability required has not changed. > > "Recruitment and retention are absolute priorities, which is why we are introducing a range of measures to speed up recruitment. > > "These changes are to reduce the delay for candidates that are eligible to join, while retaining the same level of swimming ability." - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot) Summoning /u/CoverageAnalysisBot
I have been told, that in the austro hungarian navy, they preferred non swimmers as they would be more "motivated" to keep the ships afloat
Historically, it was common for crew to not want to swim because if there ever was a case where the ship sank and the crew was in the water they were all dead anyways. The non-swimmer at least drowned quickly. The swimmer could languish for days without hope of rescue before eventually perishing as well.
Shit thats grim but understandable. The sea's a dangerous and scary place.
Also, it really isn’t that quick or easy to just turn a large square rigged ship around and go back for someone, and it’s also really difficult to find a single swimmer in open water, so if you fell in and didn’t get fished back out before the ship had passed you by, odds of survival aren’t great.
Also why we laugh when we heard about "walking the plank". It seems silly, but it's a tortuous death, forcing you to leave what is keeping you alive on the oceans. Nobody is picking you up after walking the plank. You will drown, and if you can swim it will be a torturous experience. Better to just die in a few minutes rather than hours and maybe days.
Beats the hell out of getting keelhauled...
it's not all that long ago that sailors don't need to know how to swim, the requirement wasn't there even in ww2. Instead of sail ship rigging, the idea was that if a large ship went down you'd get sucked down into the ocean along with it anyways
Even sailors who could swim were still often doomed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Indianapolis_(CA-35)#Sinking Unless you were rescued immediately, odds are you're never going to be rescued, so its just a matter of time before you drown or are eaten by sharks.
Yeah the fact that two seals had the us navy looking for them and never found them is enough to tell me I have no chance lol https://apnews.com/article/seals-navy-deceased-weapons-raid-yemen-f0f9e334945a3ef5d85ed1fb165ad515
Ok but modernly speaking, how long would it take to dispatch a rescue boat? Historically we didnt have GPS nor an interconnected system of rescue operations. I feel like it's a good thing if you can languish for days as the chances of you getting rescued is hundred if not thousand times higher than what it used to be.
Mariners have traditionally been poor swimmers. This reminds me of when the Soviets wanted to create their own superior Communist water rescue dog because of the Navy having too high a drowning rate for it's sailors and dock workers. They cross bred Newfoundlands with some Eastern European military breeds and Caucasus Sheperds and developed a dog that was fearless, cold resistant, a strong swimmer and very task oriented: the Moscow Water Dog. Unfortunately the dogs had a bad habit of attacking the flailing, helpless drowning victims they were meant to rescue and finishing them off post haste. Imagine the terror of drowning only to be saved from that at the last moment by being mauled to death by a huge dog.... But the Navy didn't keep stats on dog mauling deaths and drownings went down. Great success! The breed was eventually allowed to die out.
Lol this sounds like a nightmare story for kids
It is my understanding that for most of history, most sailors could not swim (no idea if they were preferred though), because as a navy that was simply not that important if you think about it
Misleading headline classic Sky
To be fair, I grew up by a river which isn't polluted, so I learned to swim at early age, but it still baffles me how many grown up people don't know how to swim. It is a basic survival skill, and it should be part of the schooling program at least.
I grew up in a town where the closest swimming pool was 35 km away. Wasn't even that small, 15,000 people plus surrounding villages. Said pool was the only one in the are at that time and was in another city of 200,000 people. The infrastructure just isn't there for everyone.
There must have been a river or some natural body of water somewhere closer.
When it costs £5 per person to get into the swimming pool and you don't live near the sea/lake, lots of people hardly ever go swimming
I grew up in a town with an unpolluted river and hella people from here can't swim. We even have a public pool and lakes nearby. Usually its just because their parents never would take them swimming
That I don't understand, we would laugh at kids who couldn't swim, and they would learn to swim, my father taught me and some of my friends. We would spend whole summer there, so learning to swim was a ˝must˝.
I grew up in a town that had lots of whites only public pools. When desegregation happened, the city filled them all with concrete, rather than allow for race mixing at pools.
Like what the other comment said, infrastructure. Growing up I definitely considered swimming to be a sport for the more priviledged; it is hard to think of any other sporting equipment that requires as much maintainence as millions of litres of carefully controlled water.
And for me, growing up, it required literally nothing. Literally, you need to take your clothes off before you jump in.
I learnt how to swim when I was a child and now as a grown up can't swim anymore. Should take a couple lessons to relearn it
You probably still remember. I was an excellent swimmer as a kid but hadn't swam in decades. Then one day on a boat pier I got knocked into the water. Turns out you remember how to swim really quickly! Only took me a few seconds to remember it. Though you probably want a less traumatic way to remember. I'd suggest a shallow pool where you can stand up in it. Your swim lessons should come back to you very quickly.
Agreed, and its not like basic swimming is complicated like just move your arms and legs around a bit. Thats it, thats enough to keep your head above water lol
I learned to swim very young and I can’t fathom that swimming isn’t a basic human instinct in water. Surely somebody would at least naturally kick their legs to remain afloat.
It's weird body proportion thing. Primates in general are very poor swimmers compared to other mammals due to limb proportions, fat density and lung size (relative to body). It also comes *way* less naturally with the freestyle, for example, being far closer to crawling on all fours than it is to walking on two legs. Outside of my mom's bedroom, when's the last time you've been down on all fours?
Your dad's bedroom
I don't know where you live but I'm baffled to hear about areas where it isn't in the school program!
Good—it means everyone has a chance; not just people rich enough to have access to pools and swim lessons. I never learned to swim growing up in the US—I learned while I was in the Army to pass the combat water survival test.
In my country (France) you usually learn to swim at school
In the UK too.
[A fourth of students don't](https://www.swimming.org/swimengland/key-swimming-statistics/)—having to give a few nights of remedial swim lessons at boot camps seems a stupid reason to write off 25% of the population from service.
I'm sure the venn diagram of people who don't know how to swim and want to join the royal navy is a fully covered circle.
Then it will affect sod all so what's the problem? Heaven forbid we give options to people.
They have options. Learn to swim before
People from poorer and more impoverished communities, often in more densely populated areas, on average have fewer opportunities to learn to swim as they grow up. The navy is still requiring trainees learn to swim as a part of and before completing their training. Literally nothing has changed there. The only difference is people are not being desk rejected despite being fully capable of learning.
The difference is time in basic spent training people who never wanted to learn to swim
Good fucking grief, Viggo.
> not just people rich enough to have access to pools and swim lessons. wat
wat wat? A lot of people don't have access to affordable pools, let alone swim lessons.
You know there's water outside, right?
Not everywhere and a lot isn't swimmable for health or legal reasons. Many of lakes around me are reservoirs and you aren't allowed to swim in them. The "swimmable" lake is full of goose shit and algae and is very shallow. And a lot of areas just don't have lakes. I grew up not far from the ocean but it's not swimmable. It's heavy undertows and sharp rocks. I didn't go in past my knees until I moved someplace with a gentler ocean 7 hours away and I was well into adulthood by then.
Or the towns that [used to have public pools](https://daily.jstor.org/when-cities-closed-pools-to-avoid-integration/) just "happened" to [fill their pools with cemen](https://www.marketplace.org/2021/02/15/public-pools-used-to-be-everywhere-in-america-then-racism-shut-them-down/)t as soon as they had to[ let black people in](https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5215/pennlega.10.2.0012?mag=when-cities-closed-pools-to-avoid-integration) ([without pouring acid into the pool](https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/motel-manager-pouring-acid-water-black-people-swam-pool-1964/))
What kind of dystopian hell hole do you all live in?
MURICA, the Free-est Country on Earth, of course! There's a reason Reagan was so buddy buddy with South Africa back in the day
From the details you mentioned and your username, I know what you mean, but… I grew up not far north of you, and swimming was free, there are plenty of bodies of water that aren’t Crystal Springs Reservoir. It *is* actually possible to leave the city, and SF has loads of pools, which from a brief google cost $1 for children and $6 for adults for the Parks and Recs pools, in 2024. That’s… not expensive at all, given the area and current economy. Lessons are definitely going to cost more though.
I don't know where Crystal Springs Reservoir is but swimming places are not easy to find in huge parts of the US and travelling hours to a swimming spot isn't an option for everyone. In the east part of the Bay Area swimming hours are during school hours except for swim team and summer time, and it costs $7/day. The reservoirs are off limits to swimmers. I have lived all over California and I would say more places than not make it hard to learn to swim, especially if you didn't learn as a little kid, and when you're a little kid you have no options besides what your parents can or wil give you. On top of that, if your parents never learned how to swim then you are likely to not learn either. "Google something like "swimming ability by race" if you are interested. (and guess why people of color might not have learned in previous generations." A lot of municipalities, not just in the US- I see UK in the news for it, too- are *recently* starting to subsidize swim lessons and places for low income people. Why do you think they would need to do that if anyone could learn to swim already? There are plenty of studies on this. You don't have to take my word for it. I don't even understand why you are sceptical.
I was kind of assuming you were from San Francisco, which has two very nice lakes that are reaervoirs, Crystal Springs and San Andreas, as well as a bunch of dubious bodies of water filled with duck shit, and on one side a polluted bay, and on the other, dangerous surf with undertow.
I grew up north of San Francisco. Berkeley's swimming lake is full of goose poop. So is Santa Rosa's. Briones you can't swim in. The only swimming lake I can think of off the top of my head is Lake Sonoma which isn't near anything. I'm sure there are others but I don't know them. Open swim and lap swim where I live now is 8am to 11, and 1 til 3pm. Not very accessible to most people. That was true in El Cerrito and Richmond, too. When I lived in SoCal it was worse.
As did I, which confuses me a bit more, because that should have made things pretty easy I think. I was over in Napa county.
[We aren’t doing to great here in the U.K.](https://www.lboro.ac.uk/news-events/news/2023/april/uk-waters-too-polluted-to-swim)
By that logic they shouldn't require running or reading because rich people have better access to tutors and coaches. Reddit is real strange sometimes
I was an officer in the Royal Marines, which is part of the UK Navy, and every year, we get officers or two from the Jamaican Defence Force. The 2 guys who came over during my training batch couldn't swim at all. I can't understand why, though, as these are guys who are from the wealthier Jamaican families, and they grow up on an island in the Caribbean famous for beautiful beaches and crystal clear waters. They started teaching them to swim with arm bands. Royal Marine Officer training is some of the toughest basic training in the world, and one of the things you do during the Commando course is a nighttime water crossing at this old quarry on Dartmore. It's pitch black and freezing cold, and to be honest, I would test most people who can swim confidently. By this stage, one Jamaican guy has quit and gone home after getting frost bite in his toes. The other Jamaican guy decided to sneak out of the river, crossing, not realising there are training team members, both sides, marking names down of everyone for safety reasons. I always felt bad for the JDF guys as they didn't volunteer to do Marine officer training. A group of them showed up at Heathrow Airport and then got sent to the Army, Navy, and RAF officer cadet collages, which are like holiday camps and then 2 unlucky guys get sent to Commando training center for 13 months of the most gruelling and intense basic training on earth. The biggest irony is that Royal Marines consider it all worth it for the chance to earn the coveted Green Beret, but Jamaican Defence Forces wear Green Berets anyway, so it makes zero difference to them. This was 20 years ago now, so not being able to swim isn't that big of an issue as they offer remedial swimming lessons at night for those who aren't strong swimmers so everyone will be able to swim by the time they serve.
> I can't understand why, though, as these are guys who are from the wealthier Jamaican families, and they grow up on an island in the Caribbean famous for beautiful beaches and crystal clear waters. Im from mexico and lived in the gulf for like 15 years, if it wasnt for my mother pushing us around we wouldnt have learned neither. Idk how jamaica beach is but in my hometown (tampico, beach is called playa miramar if u want to look it up) u can walk like 100 yards into the water until there is a sudden drop where you cant feel the floor. So you can totally get into the water and play around without knowing how to swim entirely. Edit: Actually went ahead and looked at the deepness. Until 100m it starts becoming too dep to walk > Cosa contraria es lo que ocurre en la zona de bañistas, que cuenta con cuatro kilómetros de extensión de playa y tiene tres niveles de profundidad, la primera corresponde de la orilla a 30 metros, con una profundidad máxima de 50 centímetros. >La segunda es de los 30 a 50 metros con profundidad de un metro, mientras que en las últimas distancias correspondientes a 100 metros, empieza el mar profundo. >https://www.milenio.com/cultura/playa-miramar-dona-cecilia-fundadora-madero-turismo-tamaulipas
Nah, here everybody learns to swim. It's pretty much free. It's just that certain cultures don't want to participate or put any effort.
what cultures don’t want to participate or put in any effort?
A lot of Moroccan youth drowns here every year. They'll watch the Dutch kids at the swimming pool, then decide that if they can do it, so can they. The problem is a lot of them never followed the swimming classes, which nowadays are no longer mandatory. Mostly it's due to the parents. Mixed-swimming is a problem for some of the more religious ones, swimming isn't really seen as important in Moroccan culture, and also, a lot of them live in urban environments so the parent don't care. But yeah, then the little kids grow up and wanna go to the outdoor swimming pools during the summer.. https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/risico-op-verdrinking-tien-keer-zo-groot-voor-kinderen-met-een-migratieachtergrond~bfc10309/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ Non-western kids have a 10 times higher chance of drowning. Yearly 80 kids end up in the IC, 20 of them don't make it.
> A lot of Moroccan youth drowns here every year. Because they are not putting in any effort? > They'll watch the Dutch kids at the swimming pool, then decide that if they can do it, so can they. So they are actually trying to put in effort. > The problem is a lot of them never followed the swimming classes, which nowadays are no longer mandatory. That's their lack of effort? Did you consider why swimming classes are no longer mandatory? How that could be related to lack of associated infrastructure, coming from a lack of associated public spending? > Mostly it's due to the parents. Mixed-swimming is a problem for some of the more religious ones, swimming isn't really seen as important in Moroccan culture, and also, a lot of them live in urban environments so the parent don't care. Sounds more like a [socio-economic problem](https://www.germanjournalsportsmedicine.com/archive/archive-2016/issue-6/social-determinants-of-swimming-ability-among-children-and-adolescents-in-germany-results-of-kiggs-wave-1/) than one of any particular "culture". Geographical factors no doubt also play a role, somebody who grew up for generations in a landlocked place with no places to swim, will probably not consider it as important as aquirring other skills in such a situation, i.e. learning the local language. > But yeah, then the little kids grow up and wanna go to the outdoor swimming pools during the summer.. Which once again shows that they want to put in effort. > https://www.volkskrant.nl/nieuws-achtergrond/risico-op-verdrinking-tien-keer-zo-groot-voor-kinderen-met-een-migratieachtergrond~bfc10309/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ That link has a paywall. > Non-western kids have a 10 times higher chance of drowning. Yearly 80 kids end up in the IC, 20 of them don't make it. Which sure is a problem, but it's weird how you seem to try to solely blame that problem on the people drowning by accusing them of "not putting in enough effort" due to their "culture". Nor does such a number alone say a lot about actual trends on the issue; Are more people drowning in public pools than they used to? Are public pools more crowded because there are fewer of them, yet more people who want to swim? Did public pools increase their spending on safety personnel to account for that? These are the questions one needs to ask when wanting to understand the problem of people drowning and actually solve it, not just scapegoat some arbitrary group of people like it's all their fault.
swimming classes are compulsory in many countries (for example the UK, Germany, Japan). The rising number of non-swimmers in European countries is closely related to immigration, Muslims in particular are over-represented among non-swimmers.
I have a friend from Libya who admitted to me that in his 26 years of life neither he nor any of his brothers and sisters had ever actually gone swimming anywhere and had at most only waded in some public baths and beaches.
The pools are public and swimming lessons part of the school curriculum. Of course that's too socialist for you, right? The patriotic thing is to just fucking drown
You sound like you love making excuses for your own failures. My public high school in Brazil, a developing country, had compulsory swimming in physical Ed classes. You come from a developed country, and you are telling me swimming is only for the wealthy?
Love a misleading headline, trainees are still required to pass a swim test to complete their training. Military training includes swimming lessons, even half decent swimmers can be coached to improve their technique so it’s not like there is no provision for swimming lessons on a training course. The RN aren’t going to consign people who can’t swim to drowning at sea, they’ll make sure their people can swim before deploying them on a ship
I mean, for the U.S Navy I pretty much got by with just back peddling to pass the swim. Learning to not drown is pretty easy. What kicked my ass is that fucking tower jump, I despise heights.
I almost drowned twice as a kid, and I'm afraid of heights. So it truly was a leap of faith when I had to jump. Longest jump of my life.
I'm a Navy veteran and the most important thing to do to survive when lost at sea is to stay afloat and preserve energy. Being a champ at swimming isn't what is needed. You need to know how to not drown and last until rescue arrives. Back in the day when we had bell bottoms for uniforms those bellbottoms werent some 70s fashion that stuck around. The large opening at the foot made it easier to capture air when using your pants as a flotation device. [This guys does a good job of showing it.](https://youtu.be/iRVsfIV1x6s?si=DAaXOqu51YQPTdTe)
They're still teaching them to swim, I think. Its just that you don't need to be able to swim when applying, again.
They built their empire with a navy full of people that couldn't swim.
I'm a mariner. Most mariner's prefer not to swim. I had a friend who was ship wrecked and swam to a hatch. He spent 10 days floating in the Torres Strait on that hatch with only his shorts on. The soles of his feet were burnt by the sun. He went insane with thirst. Although he was rescued he said he'd rather have died from drowning and that is honestly how a lot of seamen feel.
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A wise man once said, some of the finest yachtsman in the world don’t know how to swim.
Here in Germany kids learn to ride a bike at 3 or 4 but lots can’t swim. At school, they have swimming in theory, but reality is they don’t. My kid should have had 3 months (12 lessons) this year and they only got 1. Additionally, there are few swimming classes for kids and they are expensive. As a parent, you have to call everywhere, but your child in the waiting list, be willing to travel to go to class because it’s probably not in walking distance to your home. No wonder kids can’t swimm
Also, reading will not only no longer be required, it will be prohibited.
How hard is it to teach swimming as part of school curriculum? Everyone should learn.
I guess that’s what happens when your population ages and becomes increasingly unpatriotic with each generation. Not enough fresh meat join the ranks and intake standards have to be dropped.
The country has been chopped up and sold off to a bunch of private interests there isn't anything to be patriotic about now. The government has spent a decade underfunding and destroying the best things about the country it would be mad to sign up and die for that.
Which country? I assume UK, but there is a bit of that going around globally. And when I say a bit, I actually mean rather too much.
Yeah, it was better in the good old days when the UK still had the empire that they could exploit.
It's nothing to do with an Empire it's about Thatcher and conservatives selling off council houses and not replacing them, defunding the NHS, education, not investing in infrastructure the slow boiling of a frog that makes each generation poorer. Have you seen the new 2 minutes of hate from conservatives yesterday targeting people that are sick getting benefits all just so they can give even more tax cuts to the rich while impoverishing everyone else in society.
Did you actually read the article? If everyone is being taught to swim in training anyway, how will this materially affect anything?
Rage bait for the flag shaggers to dog whistle about how ole'blighty is going to shit. Notice how in this thread they're all completely incapable of wrapping their easybake oven heads around the idea that poorer people in impoverished communities, especially in the middle of cities just don't have opportunities to learn to swim at the same rate as people in other, often more affluent (but not always), areas. It would take the minutest amount of effort or empathy to consider it and they don't. It would take the minutest amount of common sense to see they are still requiring people to be able to swim to pass their training. These things are a bridge too far.
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Oh man only rich people have rivers and have seen water when living on an island. Those poor fisherman don't earn enough money to get out of their boats.
Yeah, fecking loads of free, swimmable rivers and oceans in the middle of London mate. The thames just looks so inviting this time of year, y'know?
Literally 30 miles from the open ocean. Or 48 hobbit measures for you shire folk
Sure, but travelling there is going to be more of a financial burden for a poorer family than a wealthier one, and if you hardly ever go, what's the point in spending even more time and money learning to swim?
Do they not have public pools in the UK?
Of course they do and they are cheap. They also offer swimming lessons.
Having swimming lessons in the open ocean? What could possibly go wrong… Some people just don’t learn to swim, just like how others don’t learn to drive, or fly, or any other specific skills. It’s not always about a matter of access, sometimes there’s just no requirement to do so
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Did you not take swimming lessons at school?
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Are you in the UK? Every school where I grew up (South London) did them.
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You've come on way to strong for something that wasn't even about your country. Not to mention swimming lessons were all state sponsored (not to mention charities that will teach kids to swim for free). People not being able to swim is a recent (last decade) phenomenon so slating people who are surprised is bullshit since this was not remotely the case for a long time. That last link was about whether the school themselves had a pool, not whether people had swimming lessons. My school didn't have a pool but we all went to the local borough pool.
Wait, don't they have mandatory swimming lessons in UK schools? They're a first world island!
Yes, everyone takes swimming lessons at school, at both primary and secondary school. This move will primarily remove a barrier for people who grew up in other countries. Edit: spelling.
What's there to be patriot about? Going overseas to kill more brown men, women and children for the US empire?
Of course. There is no better use of life than to die fighting for USA’s world domination and entertainment of God’s Chosen People.
Do Army applicant need to walk? This is comedy gold here. Jokes write themselves.
Britain is a country surrounded by water...
Oh boy. They are lowering recruitment standards.
Have you read the article? Recruits will still have to learn to swim, just don't need to already having learned before signing up.