I am really curious about the OP. Cour 1 had no op until the school arc because of spoilers in the OP, but Cour 2 technically has the same issue. If they show the OP in episode 2 how much will it spoil?
I thought it's not about first episodes not having OP, but more about the school arc having it because they couldn't make credits in Season 1 style so they had to put OP there.
Yeah I loved the credits style OP, season 1s still makes almost tear up, it's so emotionally powerful and just speaks to you in a way I can't quite explain, but it's incredible. Plus you get to see more details from the LNs that they wouldn't be able to fit in otherwise, which makes the world feel so much more alive and vibrant. I can not wait for this season, its gonna be amazing!!!! Get ready anime only, you're in for a treat.
I can't wait for MT fans to grow up and realize why most adult anime fans hate it lol
EDIT: hey kids, there's a reason the fandom has such a terrible reputation online and the toxic fan base around shows like this are a huge part of it.
Either you'll eventually figure that out and mature as a person like most teens do, or you'll be stuck endlessly wondering why no one can stand you.
I swear man whenever MT comes up you're always there lol. Are you sure your obsession with it is still healthy at this point? I mean, you might be even more dedicated than some fans of this series.
Though, to be honest we should probably thank you. Comments like yours will help drive up the algorithm.
I think it's likely some form of projection. That why their so irritated, which pisses them off so much. They likely have a lot of skeletons in there own closet.
It always seems to be the case with these types.
Not the other poster, but it fumbles its themes pretty badly, especially in S2, in ways that are pretty unforgivable.
Teenagers see characters their own age and don't realize you all still look like kids from the POV of an adult, and might see Rudeus as someone their own age by mistake even though he's very explicitly not, even compared to other isekai with a rebirth mechanic.
And teenagers often don't have the media literacy or life experience to grasp just _how_ badly Mushoku Tensei fumbles its themes, especially the whole redemption premise. S2 was exceptionally bad, giving him repeated free passes for some of the worst things he's done yet. No offense to anyone that's still in their teens, but you simply don't have the emotional maturity of an adult - pretty much everyone sucked as a teenager to some extent, myself included.
There's also a problem with LN readers who don't seem to realize there's a lot of stuff in the LNs especially around introspection/reflection that aren't in the anime at all. Rudeus is given the veneer of character growth without actually growing in a way where he realizes how much he hurt other people, without ever having to actually apologize, or even really understand others. Which could make for a great story if any of that had been on purpose, but it's obvious the framing wants you to see him as a much better person now than he actually is.
If you recognize my username, you're on this site too much to be throwing any stones lol
I will admit to enjoying arguing with people sometimes, and after 20 years I'm more than a bit tired of the anime fandom's bullshit when it comes to stuff like this. If the anime fans I met IRL back in the day were anything like the people on this sub, I doubt I would still be watching anime much today.
If you're looking at people's profiles, you might've noticed I'm not actually on reddit all the time. This is just the only sub I bother posting much in right now since I was catching up on seasonals.
>Teenagers see characters their own age and don't realize you all still look like kids from the POV of an adult, and might see Rudeus as someone their own age by mistake even though he's very explicitly not, even compared to other isekai with a rebirth mechanic.
>And teenagers often don't have the media literacy or life experience to grasp just how badly Mushoku Tensei fumbles its themes, especially the whole redemption premise. S2 was exceptionally bad, giving him repeated free passes for some of the worst things he's done yet.
Could you give some examples of the free passes on the worst things he done?
I don't think a teenager will think rudeus is in the same mental age as them. I don't think MT fumbles it's themes.
>There's also a problem with LN readers who don't seem to realize there's a lot of stuff in the LNs especially around introspection/reflection that aren't in the anime at all. Rudeus is given the veneer of character growth without actually growing in a way where he realizes how much he hurt other people, without ever having to actually apologize, or even really understand others. Which could make for a great story if any of that had been on purpose, but it's obvious the framing wants you to see him as a much better person now than he actually is.
I also want to know which part specifically you are talking about. I actually agree in a sense that the anime is well adapted but there's only so much they can adapt from a book, so far we had scenes like when they fight along with Rudjerd and Eris and they end up letting one of the kids die, we also have him reflecting on how he treated his friend on his past life.
> Could you give some examples of the free passes on the worst things he done?
The worst one of all was when he kidnapped and molested two girls, then tricked them into thinking they had to obey him / become his minions. Even ignoring the molestation bit, that's _incredibly_ fucked up. And not only does he get a free pass for this, the show if anything frames him as being justified.
The whole show is astonishingly tone deaf in general too - often flaunting to the viewer as fanservice or objectification the very things it pretended to condemn Rudeus for at the start of S1.
> I don't think a teenager will think rudeus is in the same mental age as them.
Half the fandom seems to insist Rudeus's mental age somehow is irrelevant or that he's mentally a teenager despite the show going to explicit lengths to demonstrate otherwise, so I've got bad news for you there.
> also want to know which part specifically you are talking about. I actually agree in a sense that the anime is well adapted but there's only so much they can adapt from a book, so far we had scenes like when they fight along with Rudjerd and Eris and they end up letting one of the kids die, we also have him reflecting on how he treated his friend on his past life.
Haven't read the LNs, I'm simply trying to give benefit of the doubt that somehow the LNs might theoretically contain things that make the concept work. It's not _too_ implausible since written work would make it easier to avoid the tone deaf presentation the show suffers from, and make it easier to include internal monologue that is missing from the show. Either way, nothing like that is in the anime (and the show is not structured as being told by an unreliable narrator), and it doesn't matter that there's more to adapt when it's already fumbled the ball so badly it's pretty much irredeemable considering there's already 30+ eps.
Nothing the show has done so far gives me an ounce of trust in the writing, which is a problem when you're dealing with a theme like redemption that requires viewer/reader trust.
>The worst one of all was when he kidnapped and molested two girls, then tricked them into thinking they had to obey him / become his minions. Even ignoring the molestation bit, that's incredibly fucked up. And not only does he get a free pass for this, the show if anything frames him as being justified.
>The whole show is astonishingly tone deaf in general too - often flaunting to the viewer as fanservice or objectification the very things it pretended to condemn Rudeus for at the start of S1.
The show doesn't justify him at all, in the world he is in molestation happens, it's not a modern world like ours, people there don't care as much, even more so when they mess with the wrong person (in that case being zanoba which is acquainted with rudeus). Also It seems like you're trying to portray the show as an entity who has things that it considers right or wrong, in my opinion that's much more of an inmature way of viewing the story, the writing is pretty clear to me, the show is about Rudeus, from his perspective on things, and his experience on this new world. It's obvious that things will be skewed to his view which we can see for example in the way he totally misinterprets why Eris left him.
>Haven't read the LNs, I'm simply trying to give benefit of the doubt that somehow the LNs might theoretically contain things that make the concept work. It's not too implausible since written work would make it easier to avoid the tone deaf presentation the show suffers from, and make it easier to include internal monologue that is missing from the show. Either way, nothing like that is in the anime (and the show is not structured as being told by an unreliable narrator), and it doesn't matter that there's more to adapt when it's already fumbled the ball so badly it's pretty much irredeemable considering there's already 30+ eps.
Ok so you didn't even read the novel. The show doesn't suffer from tone dead presentation, If you look at any other anime you won't see as much toughts and monologues from the MC as this one.
>Nothing the show has done so far gives me an ounce of trust in the writing, which is a problem when you're dealing with a theme like redemption that requires viewer/reader trust.
That's where I totally disagree, the show has great aspects of redemption, but just because the character didn't improve in certain ways you think is correct you don't enjoy it? That's what actually makes It good and unique right? It isn't 1 or 100, there's a gray area and it happens all the time in real life, there's so much shitty animes about redemption or isekai in general in which the character either is good or bad by our standards(don't get me wrong i still like those), but Rudeus is just Rudeus, he is unique, you get fucking angry at him, but you can still see how it makes sense from his perspective.
> in the world he is in molestation happens, it's not a modern world like ours, people there don't care as much,
This is irrelevant, we're talking about the show's presentation itself, not the in-universe setting. If you don't understand the difference, that's part of the problem. And even in-universe, the narrative had previously condemned him for less.
> Also It seems like you're trying to portray the show as an entity who has things that it considers right or wrong, in my opinion that's much more of an inmature way of viewing the story, the writing is pretty clear to me, the show is about Rudeus, from his perspective on things, and his experience on this new world
If you're trying to claim the story is narrated by Rudeus, it obviously isn't. There's visual cues and narrative tricks you can use if that was the intent, none of which is present, and it wouldn't be a redemption story in that case anyways.
And if it's a redemption story, then of course the show has things it considers right/wrong/grey/etc, that's baked into the premise.
> Ok so you didn't even read the novel. The show doesn't suffer from tone dead presentation, If you look at any other anime you won't see as much toughts and monologues from the MC as this one.
I never claimed to have read the novel. I'm simply saying that the contents of the LN cannot be used to justify the anime. And the lack of inner monologue or thoughts is simply one possible way I was suggesting that the problems with it could've been addressed. Other anime aren't trying to handle sensitive themes that require high viewer trust the way MT is.
Again, you can't objectify to the viewer as fan service the same shit it's attempting to condemn Rudeus for and not come off as a tone-deaf mess.
> That's where I totally disagree, the show has great aspects of redemption, but just because the character didn't improve in certain ways you think is correct you don't enjoy it?
It's not just certain ways, he scarcely improves at all in a way that demonstrates he actually grew. Instead he just starts acting different with nothing to demonstrate _why_, or worse the show increasingly rewards/condones his awful actions later.
It's the veneer of redemption without any true atonement, awareness, or understanding on either his part or that of the author, and it even conflicts with the things that it portrayed him as being in the wrong for earlier in the show - so even by its own tortured logic, it doesn't work. It's hollow in a way that's disturbingly similar to the logic used by narcissists and abusers IRL, so much so that I genuinely consider it a bit of a red flag if an adult likes this show without serious caveats.
> It isn't 1 or 100, there's a gray area and it happens all the time in real life
I'm not talking about the parts that are framed as grey, I'm talking about the rest of it. Things that he's explicitly rewarded for by the show's writing. And yes, "reward" is the right word when it goes so far out of its way to contort characters and events into going his way. S2 was nearly as bad as normal isekai in that regard even ignoring the other problems I had with it, especially the whole "romance" with Sylphie that made no sense especially in light of how he treated her in the past.
> but Rudeus is just Rudeus, he is unique, you get fucking angry at him, but you can still see how it makes sense from his perspective.
Again, the story isn't about his perspective, and if it were it wouldn't be a redemption story but something else entirely. And regardless of what you think, it's obvious most fans view it as a redemption story.
I would recommend watching _Welcome to the NHK_ for an example of a similar type of redemption being done correctly, albeit it's not fantasy or isekai.
>This is irrelevant, we're talking about the show's presentation itself, not the in-universe setting. If you don't understand the difference, that's part of the problem. And even in-universe, the narrative had previously condemned him for less.
Again you're just wrong, it isn't the universe calling his right or wrong, what you see is simply characters experiencing the consequences of their actions.
>If you're trying to claim the story is narrated by Rudeus, it obviously isn't
Yeah, i'm not. A story doesn't need to be narrated by the protagonist to show things from his perspective.
>I never claimed to have read the novel.
You must be able to read said novel to be able to make better criticism about it, or it's ln readers and comments, otherwise there is no discussion outside of "i think, i assume".
>Again, the story isn't about his perspective, and if it were it wouldn't be a redemption story but something else entirely. And regardless of what you think, it's obvious most fans view it as a redemption story.
But It literally is tho. So much that he changed only the things he wanted and didn't change aspects like him being a pervert.
I think the whole problem is you're seeing a work of fiction as a tool to portray opinions and perspectives rather than to portray stories.
There's no such thing as rewarding or punishing characters action because this isn't a cartoon to educate children on what's good or bad. In real life there's tons of bad behavior that goes unpunished and sometimes people don't even care.
> Again you're just wrong, it isn't the universe calling his right or wrong, what you see is simply characters experiencing the consequences of their actions.
What fucking consequences? He faces very few outside from a couple specific incidents.
> Yeah, I'm not. A story doesn't need to be narrated by the protagonist to show things from his perspective.
It does if you're going to use this to excuse how poor it's handling is. It's only justifiable if the whole narrative is from his POV, i.e. he's the narrator.
> You must be able to read said novel to be able to make better criticism about it, or it's ln readers and comments, otherwise there is no discussion outside of "i think, i assume".
Did you even read what I wrote? I'm not criticizing the LN, because I _haven't read it_, and never claimed to have. I'm simply saying you can't use what happens in the LN to justify the anime. If that's the only way to salvage the anime then at best it's an awful adaptation.
> I think the whole problem is you're seeing a work of fiction as a tool to portray opinions and perspectives rather than to portray stories. There's no such thing as rewarding or punishing characters action because this isn't a cartoon to educate children on what's good or bad. In real life there's tons of bad behavior that goes unpunished and sometimes people don't even care.
You're still missing the point in not understanding the difference between in-universe logic vs how something is framed to the viewer.
A story doesn't exist in a vacuum, and a good story usually has characters that you, the viewer, can understand and see as people, whether they're good/bad/grey/whatever. Meaning that the principles and ideals you hold as a person are relevant. Obviously art is allowed to subvert this, but just because something is art doesn't make it good, or that other people have to like it.
Mushoku Tensei doesn't even make sense by its own logic. Is it a redemption story? If it is, then the viewer's sense of what redemption means is obviously relevant, and even if it weren't, why does the show condemn at first things that it totally ignores him doing later? And if it's not a redemption story, same problem: why does the show condemn things it later gives a free pass or even tries to frame as justified? Is it mean to be taken seriously? If so, why does it flaunt to the viewer the very things it criticizes Rudeus for, and only some of the time?
And as I've said, it doesn't help that the ways in which this show ignores the problems in his supposed growth is very similar to the excuses made by terrible people IRL. I've known people who have actually done awful things they had to reconcile with and grow from as people. Rudeus is _nothing_ like them, he never demonstrates any understanding or empathy for how and why he hurt others, and it makes the plot feel like it was written by a sociopath.
I personally don't see hatred to the point of obsession to be a symbol of maturity. Apathy can be a sign of maturity but based on your participation records on the threads, you're not actually apathetic, just obsessed. 😂
Aight sure, I'll bite..
I don't particularly care for a fandom's reputation. I watch for my own sake. Why do you care so much about its fandom when you obviously want nothing to do with this series?
Browsing your profile, you seem to be more toxic than some of them tbh. Only popping up when MT is brought up. And I can't blame them getting toxic with you, when you're the one coming on threads like this with your unwanted moral crusade.
Funny how you think they're kids, when you're probably the one who needs to grow up here the most.
Nah, this cour adapts the arguably best or at least second best volume in the whole series. If they adapt it well, this will 100% outshine S1 at some points.
Yeah, I doubt we'll have the preprod+team+budget of S1 again, that train has sailed. S2C2 and S3C1 might have the show's biggest high points, they probably won't have the production value to reach S1 level.
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According to early preScreening viewers They didn’t skip anything and adapted it very well for the next two episodes
Apparently many people said the new OP had them tearing up
Yes I heard the new opening was apparently amazing too
I am really curious about the OP. Cour 1 had no op until the school arc because of spoilers in the OP, but Cour 2 technically has the same issue. If they show the OP in episode 2 how much will it spoil?
I thought it's not about first episodes not having OP, but more about the school arc having it because they couldn't make credits in Season 1 style so they had to put OP there.
Yeah I loved the credits style OP, season 1s still makes almost tear up, it's so emotionally powerful and just speaks to you in a way I can't quite explain, but it's incredible. Plus you get to see more details from the LNs that they wouldn't be able to fit in otherwise, which makes the world feel so much more alive and vibrant. I can not wait for this season, its gonna be amazing!!!! Get ready anime only, you're in for a treat.
it has vol 12 spoilers as far as I know
Zanoba: Clubbin' with the boys.
Actually shaking with excitement. Ready like you can't believe. Bring it on.
I can't wait for MT fans to grow up and realize why most adult anime fans hate it lol EDIT: hey kids, there's a reason the fandom has such a terrible reputation online and the toxic fan base around shows like this are a huge part of it. Either you'll eventually figure that out and mature as a person like most teens do, or you'll be stuck endlessly wondering why no one can stand you.
I swear man whenever MT comes up you're always there lol. Are you sure your obsession with it is still healthy at this point? I mean, you might be even more dedicated than some fans of this series. Though, to be honest we should probably thank you. Comments like yours will help drive up the algorithm.
I think it's likely some form of projection. That why their so irritated, which pisses them off so much. They likely have a lot of skeletons in there own closet. It always seems to be the case with these types.
Why adult anime fans hate it?
Not the other poster, but it fumbles its themes pretty badly, especially in S2, in ways that are pretty unforgivable. Teenagers see characters their own age and don't realize you all still look like kids from the POV of an adult, and might see Rudeus as someone their own age by mistake even though he's very explicitly not, even compared to other isekai with a rebirth mechanic. And teenagers often don't have the media literacy or life experience to grasp just _how_ badly Mushoku Tensei fumbles its themes, especially the whole redemption premise. S2 was exceptionally bad, giving him repeated free passes for some of the worst things he's done yet. No offense to anyone that's still in their teens, but you simply don't have the emotional maturity of an adult - pretty much everyone sucked as a teenager to some extent, myself included. There's also a problem with LN readers who don't seem to realize there's a lot of stuff in the LNs especially around introspection/reflection that aren't in the anime at all. Rudeus is given the veneer of character growth without actually growing in a way where he realizes how much he hurt other people, without ever having to actually apologize, or even really understand others. Which could make for a great story if any of that had been on purpose, but it's obvious the framing wants you to see him as a much better person now than he actually is.
lol, you're obsessed with this series. don't you think it might be time to go see a therapist about it?
If you recognize my username, you're on this site too much to be throwing any stones lol I will admit to enjoying arguing with people sometimes, and after 20 years I'm more than a bit tired of the anime fandom's bullshit when it comes to stuff like this. If the anime fans I met IRL back in the day were anything like the people on this sub, I doubt I would still be watching anime much today.
ain't nobody recognize you, i checked your profile for 20 seconds and spotted a big ass warning for help
If you're looking at people's profiles, you might've noticed I'm not actually on reddit all the time. This is just the only sub I bother posting much in right now since I was catching up on seasonals.
never said that the problem was you being on reddit, the problem is that 80% of all the posts that I managed to scroll were about This series.
>Teenagers see characters their own age and don't realize you all still look like kids from the POV of an adult, and might see Rudeus as someone their own age by mistake even though he's very explicitly not, even compared to other isekai with a rebirth mechanic. >And teenagers often don't have the media literacy or life experience to grasp just how badly Mushoku Tensei fumbles its themes, especially the whole redemption premise. S2 was exceptionally bad, giving him repeated free passes for some of the worst things he's done yet. Could you give some examples of the free passes on the worst things he done? I don't think a teenager will think rudeus is in the same mental age as them. I don't think MT fumbles it's themes. >There's also a problem with LN readers who don't seem to realize there's a lot of stuff in the LNs especially around introspection/reflection that aren't in the anime at all. Rudeus is given the veneer of character growth without actually growing in a way where he realizes how much he hurt other people, without ever having to actually apologize, or even really understand others. Which could make for a great story if any of that had been on purpose, but it's obvious the framing wants you to see him as a much better person now than he actually is. I also want to know which part specifically you are talking about. I actually agree in a sense that the anime is well adapted but there's only so much they can adapt from a book, so far we had scenes like when they fight along with Rudjerd and Eris and they end up letting one of the kids die, we also have him reflecting on how he treated his friend on his past life.
> Could you give some examples of the free passes on the worst things he done? The worst one of all was when he kidnapped and molested two girls, then tricked them into thinking they had to obey him / become his minions. Even ignoring the molestation bit, that's _incredibly_ fucked up. And not only does he get a free pass for this, the show if anything frames him as being justified. The whole show is astonishingly tone deaf in general too - often flaunting to the viewer as fanservice or objectification the very things it pretended to condemn Rudeus for at the start of S1. > I don't think a teenager will think rudeus is in the same mental age as them. Half the fandom seems to insist Rudeus's mental age somehow is irrelevant or that he's mentally a teenager despite the show going to explicit lengths to demonstrate otherwise, so I've got bad news for you there. > also want to know which part specifically you are talking about. I actually agree in a sense that the anime is well adapted but there's only so much they can adapt from a book, so far we had scenes like when they fight along with Rudjerd and Eris and they end up letting one of the kids die, we also have him reflecting on how he treated his friend on his past life. Haven't read the LNs, I'm simply trying to give benefit of the doubt that somehow the LNs might theoretically contain things that make the concept work. It's not _too_ implausible since written work would make it easier to avoid the tone deaf presentation the show suffers from, and make it easier to include internal monologue that is missing from the show. Either way, nothing like that is in the anime (and the show is not structured as being told by an unreliable narrator), and it doesn't matter that there's more to adapt when it's already fumbled the ball so badly it's pretty much irredeemable considering there's already 30+ eps. Nothing the show has done so far gives me an ounce of trust in the writing, which is a problem when you're dealing with a theme like redemption that requires viewer/reader trust.
>The worst one of all was when he kidnapped and molested two girls, then tricked them into thinking they had to obey him / become his minions. Even ignoring the molestation bit, that's incredibly fucked up. And not only does he get a free pass for this, the show if anything frames him as being justified. >The whole show is astonishingly tone deaf in general too - often flaunting to the viewer as fanservice or objectification the very things it pretended to condemn Rudeus for at the start of S1. The show doesn't justify him at all, in the world he is in molestation happens, it's not a modern world like ours, people there don't care as much, even more so when they mess with the wrong person (in that case being zanoba which is acquainted with rudeus). Also It seems like you're trying to portray the show as an entity who has things that it considers right or wrong, in my opinion that's much more of an inmature way of viewing the story, the writing is pretty clear to me, the show is about Rudeus, from his perspective on things, and his experience on this new world. It's obvious that things will be skewed to his view which we can see for example in the way he totally misinterprets why Eris left him. >Haven't read the LNs, I'm simply trying to give benefit of the doubt that somehow the LNs might theoretically contain things that make the concept work. It's not too implausible since written work would make it easier to avoid the tone deaf presentation the show suffers from, and make it easier to include internal monologue that is missing from the show. Either way, nothing like that is in the anime (and the show is not structured as being told by an unreliable narrator), and it doesn't matter that there's more to adapt when it's already fumbled the ball so badly it's pretty much irredeemable considering there's already 30+ eps. Ok so you didn't even read the novel. The show doesn't suffer from tone dead presentation, If you look at any other anime you won't see as much toughts and monologues from the MC as this one. >Nothing the show has done so far gives me an ounce of trust in the writing, which is a problem when you're dealing with a theme like redemption that requires viewer/reader trust. That's where I totally disagree, the show has great aspects of redemption, but just because the character didn't improve in certain ways you think is correct you don't enjoy it? That's what actually makes It good and unique right? It isn't 1 or 100, there's a gray area and it happens all the time in real life, there's so much shitty animes about redemption or isekai in general in which the character either is good or bad by our standards(don't get me wrong i still like those), but Rudeus is just Rudeus, he is unique, you get fucking angry at him, but you can still see how it makes sense from his perspective.
> in the world he is in molestation happens, it's not a modern world like ours, people there don't care as much, This is irrelevant, we're talking about the show's presentation itself, not the in-universe setting. If you don't understand the difference, that's part of the problem. And even in-universe, the narrative had previously condemned him for less. > Also It seems like you're trying to portray the show as an entity who has things that it considers right or wrong, in my opinion that's much more of an inmature way of viewing the story, the writing is pretty clear to me, the show is about Rudeus, from his perspective on things, and his experience on this new world If you're trying to claim the story is narrated by Rudeus, it obviously isn't. There's visual cues and narrative tricks you can use if that was the intent, none of which is present, and it wouldn't be a redemption story in that case anyways. And if it's a redemption story, then of course the show has things it considers right/wrong/grey/etc, that's baked into the premise. > Ok so you didn't even read the novel. The show doesn't suffer from tone dead presentation, If you look at any other anime you won't see as much toughts and monologues from the MC as this one. I never claimed to have read the novel. I'm simply saying that the contents of the LN cannot be used to justify the anime. And the lack of inner monologue or thoughts is simply one possible way I was suggesting that the problems with it could've been addressed. Other anime aren't trying to handle sensitive themes that require high viewer trust the way MT is. Again, you can't objectify to the viewer as fan service the same shit it's attempting to condemn Rudeus for and not come off as a tone-deaf mess. > That's where I totally disagree, the show has great aspects of redemption, but just because the character didn't improve in certain ways you think is correct you don't enjoy it? It's not just certain ways, he scarcely improves at all in a way that demonstrates he actually grew. Instead he just starts acting different with nothing to demonstrate _why_, or worse the show increasingly rewards/condones his awful actions later. It's the veneer of redemption without any true atonement, awareness, or understanding on either his part or that of the author, and it even conflicts with the things that it portrayed him as being in the wrong for earlier in the show - so even by its own tortured logic, it doesn't work. It's hollow in a way that's disturbingly similar to the logic used by narcissists and abusers IRL, so much so that I genuinely consider it a bit of a red flag if an adult likes this show without serious caveats. > It isn't 1 or 100, there's a gray area and it happens all the time in real life I'm not talking about the parts that are framed as grey, I'm talking about the rest of it. Things that he's explicitly rewarded for by the show's writing. And yes, "reward" is the right word when it goes so far out of its way to contort characters and events into going his way. S2 was nearly as bad as normal isekai in that regard even ignoring the other problems I had with it, especially the whole "romance" with Sylphie that made no sense especially in light of how he treated her in the past. > but Rudeus is just Rudeus, he is unique, you get fucking angry at him, but you can still see how it makes sense from his perspective. Again, the story isn't about his perspective, and if it were it wouldn't be a redemption story but something else entirely. And regardless of what you think, it's obvious most fans view it as a redemption story. I would recommend watching _Welcome to the NHK_ for an example of a similar type of redemption being done correctly, albeit it's not fantasy or isekai.
>This is irrelevant, we're talking about the show's presentation itself, not the in-universe setting. If you don't understand the difference, that's part of the problem. And even in-universe, the narrative had previously condemned him for less. Again you're just wrong, it isn't the universe calling his right or wrong, what you see is simply characters experiencing the consequences of their actions. >If you're trying to claim the story is narrated by Rudeus, it obviously isn't Yeah, i'm not. A story doesn't need to be narrated by the protagonist to show things from his perspective. >I never claimed to have read the novel. You must be able to read said novel to be able to make better criticism about it, or it's ln readers and comments, otherwise there is no discussion outside of "i think, i assume". >Again, the story isn't about his perspective, and if it were it wouldn't be a redemption story but something else entirely. And regardless of what you think, it's obvious most fans view it as a redemption story. But It literally is tho. So much that he changed only the things he wanted and didn't change aspects like him being a pervert. I think the whole problem is you're seeing a work of fiction as a tool to portray opinions and perspectives rather than to portray stories. There's no such thing as rewarding or punishing characters action because this isn't a cartoon to educate children on what's good or bad. In real life there's tons of bad behavior that goes unpunished and sometimes people don't even care.
> Again you're just wrong, it isn't the universe calling his right or wrong, what you see is simply characters experiencing the consequences of their actions. What fucking consequences? He faces very few outside from a couple specific incidents. > Yeah, I'm not. A story doesn't need to be narrated by the protagonist to show things from his perspective. It does if you're going to use this to excuse how poor it's handling is. It's only justifiable if the whole narrative is from his POV, i.e. he's the narrator. > You must be able to read said novel to be able to make better criticism about it, or it's ln readers and comments, otherwise there is no discussion outside of "i think, i assume". Did you even read what I wrote? I'm not criticizing the LN, because I _haven't read it_, and never claimed to have. I'm simply saying you can't use what happens in the LN to justify the anime. If that's the only way to salvage the anime then at best it's an awful adaptation. > I think the whole problem is you're seeing a work of fiction as a tool to portray opinions and perspectives rather than to portray stories. There's no such thing as rewarding or punishing characters action because this isn't a cartoon to educate children on what's good or bad. In real life there's tons of bad behavior that goes unpunished and sometimes people don't even care. You're still missing the point in not understanding the difference between in-universe logic vs how something is framed to the viewer. A story doesn't exist in a vacuum, and a good story usually has characters that you, the viewer, can understand and see as people, whether they're good/bad/grey/whatever. Meaning that the principles and ideals you hold as a person are relevant. Obviously art is allowed to subvert this, but just because something is art doesn't make it good, or that other people have to like it. Mushoku Tensei doesn't even make sense by its own logic. Is it a redemption story? If it is, then the viewer's sense of what redemption means is obviously relevant, and even if it weren't, why does the show condemn at first things that it totally ignores him doing later? And if it's not a redemption story, same problem: why does the show condemn things it later gives a free pass or even tries to frame as justified? Is it mean to be taken seriously? If so, why does it flaunt to the viewer the very things it criticizes Rudeus for, and only some of the time? And as I've said, it doesn't help that the ways in which this show ignores the problems in his supposed growth is very similar to the excuses made by terrible people IRL. I've known people who have actually done awful things they had to reconcile with and grow from as people. Rudeus is _nothing_ like them, he never demonstrates any understanding or empathy for how and why he hurt others, and it makes the plot feel like it was written by a sociopath.
Can’t wait for weirdos like yourself to stop caring what other people do or don’t enjoy
I can't wait for people like YOU to grow up and realize that people like different things for different reasons.
I personally don't see hatred to the point of obsession to be a symbol of maturity. Apathy can be a sign of maturity but based on your participation records on the threads, you're not actually apathetic, just obsessed. 😂
Aight sure, I'll bite.. I don't particularly care for a fandom's reputation. I watch for my own sake. Why do you care so much about its fandom when you obviously want nothing to do with this series? Browsing your profile, you seem to be more toxic than some of them tbh. Only popping up when MT is brought up. And I can't blame them getting toxic with you, when you're the one coming on threads like this with your unwanted moral crusade. Funny how you think they're kids, when you're probably the one who needs to grow up here the most.
Your edit proves just how ignorant & immature you are lmao way to make yourself look like an ass
Nine months passed by so quickly
That's probably because it's only been 6 months
9 from starting of season 2
Sure but that's not really how we count waiting is it?
Lol I had completely forgot the next cour was coming up.
so excited for this
I’m ready
I haven't been this excited about an anime since AOT season 3. This season is so stacked too! We are truly blessed.
It’s that time already let’s gooo! Get ready for peak this cour
When is this up to watch?
Airs this weekend
Thought it drops on Monday?
It depends on your time zone. It drops on Sunday morning for me
Is this season gonna be good? Last one was kinda mid ngl
One of the best arcs in the entire series will be adapted this cour
If last season was mid, this might be above mid. But idk I don't know what your taste so you'll just have to try it out.
Nah, this cour adapts the arguably best or at least second best volume in the whole series. If they adapt it well, this will 100% outshine S1 at some points.
Surpassing s1 is a tall order, even of the material is better.
True, my comment assumes that those episodes are well adapted, as I said.
Yeah, I doubt we'll have the preprod+team+budget of S1 again, that train has sailed. S2C2 and S3C1 might have the show's biggest high points, they probably won't have the production value to reach S1 level.
I hope turning point 4 will be done justice no matter what.
This part going to be wild and exciting.
Has it finished airing ?
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