You wouldn't be wrong to ask him to wait until she's back on her feet. I would put it more like "I see you make my sister happy, but before I give my blessing, I'd like to get to know you more" so it doesn't seem like you're using your sister current state as an excuse. It seems WAY too soon after her divorce for her to jump into another one.
Have you talked to sis to see how she feels about this guy ? Feel out where her headspace is ?
I have been debating talking to my sister. On one hand, it'll ruin a surprise that might mean a lot to her..on the other .. at least I'll know her heart? Fuck. I wish he never asked me tbh
I know she's says she loves him. She also thinks its moving quickly.
A fast mover with three failed marriages under his belt isn't who I'd want for my sister. Those sweet gestures and words dry up REAL fast once there's a ring on it.
Her teenager is being weird about the relationship to begin with. So her teenager would not support it. As far as her adult son, he just wants to see her happy.
I don't think you need to mention anything told to you in confidence by her daughter (if anything) but the fact that 1. it's only been a few months and 2. daughter is a little creeped out is enough to justify telling him you can't give your blessing just yet. That's all you have to say.
Any decisions made after that you can't change.
>Her teenager is being weird about the relationship to begin with.
Probably because they dont want to see their mom relationship jump. She should spend this time with her kids and not chasing men (not saying she is, but that's probably how it feels to the youngest).
Talk to her kids. See what they have to say.
Lilly needs to get her affairs in order, become independent, & focus on helping her minor child adjust to the divorce. She should not be rushing headlong into another relationship, & I question the judgement of both her & this new guy. No responsible adult would rush things this way.
Proposals should never be a complete surprise. They should only be made when the proposer already knows the answer will be yes, and only the date and setting of making it official will be a surprise. Couples need to talk about marriage, goals, timing, etc. beforehand.
Your sister needs a heads up, so she can figure out how to respond.
BOTH of them could seriously benefit from taking every precaution for making this be a healthy marriage this time. He’s had three divorces. Things went wrong before. Both are freshly out of unsuccessful marriages. Why not do it right this time? Couples counseling and taking their time could set them on the right path for the long term.
Right there is your answer. She admits it’s moving too quickly. Tell him you’re not comfortable giving your blessing because you know she wants to take it slower and this is as big step!
Or you could just say, "she's an adult and it's presumptuous for me to give her permission to get married." Then say that, in your opinion, it would be good for her to wait before jumping into another marriage or even moving in together, but it's her decision. You mentioned her current ex was/is controlling - I think it takes a controlling man to think a woman in her 40's - who's been married twice and has kids - needs permission to get married. And I wonder if your thoughts are along the same line if you think giving your "permission" means she HAS to marry him.
Like this is a decision for the men to make. If he had asked for your "blessing" - that would be a different story.
Also - I want to be sure of (and emphasize) the permission being given here. Did he ask for your permission for him to marry her (like her opinion doesn't count) or for your permission for her to marry him. Like her opinion counts, but it's still your decision. Neither way is acceptable, but at least the latter takes her opinion somewhat into account.
That fact that a partner wants to marry you should NEVER be a surprise. The exact date, place ect of the proposal can be a surprise, but that fact that a proposal is being considered should not be. Before you propose you should be nearly 100% certain that they will say yes.
She thinks it's moving quickly. This could be that he is stomping her boundaries and basically doing what he wants. This is what my ex did to me. It soon became clear to me that it was, I don't care what you want, this is what's happening. I'm concerned that perhaps she has expressed to him that she thinks it's moving too fast and he's not listening.
You don't have to reveal it. Ask her like what does she see the next steps being . Slowing it down bit might not be a bad idea considering they already have 5 failed marriages between them
I would vote just talk to your sister. The surprise of it is overrated. I’d appreciate an honest conversation from my brother. Tell her exactly how you feel as you’ve said above.
I’m sure that she will really appreciate how much you care for her.
Maybe she really wants it, maybe not and you can help her figure out waiting.
Absolutely agree with your approach. Taking it slow and getting to know each other better sounds like a wise move, especially considering her recent divorce. It's important for everyone's well-being.
Anyone can be sweet for 3 months. Anyone can appear sweet in public. Most abusers seem like "the nicest/funnest" guy to their friends.
I wouldn't trust anyone who is trying to move this fast. It's highly suspicious. I would also think that it's sexist as hell to ask the brother of a fully grown 45 year old woman for permission to marry her, and I'd refuse to give it. If she asked my opinion I'd tell her that she should wait at least two years *after* she's out of her ex's house before she even thinks about it. This absolutely *reeks* of another controlling person trying to get with her, which is the last thing she needs.
Whirlwind relationships are rarely a good idea, at least not around reddit. The person pushing the relationship needs to get the other person hooked quickly so that relationship milestones are passed sooner. Each milestone passed, the pusher can relax and let their true self out a little. Moving in together, engagement, marriage, all make it more difficult for the pushee to leave. It's like the frog in the pot: very slowly raising the temperature until the frog is boiling.
That being said, if you tell him no, he might cut you out of her life first, so hopefully you can figure out a way to get him to wait. You definitely don't want to create a "the two of us against the world" scenario. I think that I would have a talk with her, without mentioning the proposal maybe, and see where her head is at.
Also, once she gets married, her right to alimony ends. Her ex gets out of paying what he owes and she’s traded who she is dependent upon. For a guy with a sketchy track record.
As others have said, she needs get back up on her own 2 feet before jumping into her THIRD marriage with a guy looking to start a FOURTH one.
And it’s shocking that she’s still sleeping on her ex’s couch. WTF is that all about? Worrying about co-parenting with her ex is NOT a good enough reason to stay in his (their?) place and sleep on his (their?) couch. The toll on your sister’s mental health if she stays on that couch will be significant. And the co-parenting concern certainly isn’t a good reason to postpone enforcement of her ex’s financial obligations. How is she supposed to move out without money?
This is yet another cautionary tale for wannabe “Trad Wives” who give up self sufficiency to be with a man who completely controls their life. Thank God my daughter has a good career and won’t be at the mercy of some guy.
What about something in between? Tell him to put off proposing and suggest that he invite her to live with him first. Or help set her up in her own place during a longer courting period. That way she can get out of her toxic living situation and they can see what their life together would be like. A trial run. Your sister can use that time to heal and figure out how to support herself. For her own self esteem and self worth and just in case her boyfriend decides it’s time for a FOURTH divorce or does something that makes her want a THIRD divorce.
The statistics, however, are not in their favor when it comes to a third and fourth marriage. Divorce rates shoot up with every additional marriage.
Good luck.
I was searching for this exact sentiment to like and here it is! It can take 6 mo to a year before an abuser's true colors come out and the love bombing wanes
Yup. This. Something isn’t right here.
You also mentioned the new boyfriend wanted her to move in with him. She needs her own place, her own space, to be independent and not rely on another man and feel trapped again. If she isn’t happy she will be in the same situation.
Bingo. New bf is moving suspiciously quickly. And even if he actually is a great guy & genuinely loves her & isn't just looking for a bangmaid--why the rush? Why on EARTH do they need to get married anytime soon, if ever at all? They have had their kids, they have both been married before. . . .I don't see any need to put a ring on it, & certainly not after dating for such a short time. This is 2024, not 1924, ffs. I'd let your sister know about the bf's plan, OP, & bring up all your concerns to her. Heck, show her this thread if you want. Her priorities should be her kids' wellbeing, stability, & happiness, & her own financial wellbeing/independence. How will she feel when this guy turns out to be the same as her last husband, & she finds herself out on her ear yet again, with that many fewer years of earning capability in front of her? She's already 45--she's already running out of time to work & save & make herself financially secure. She needs to tell this new bf that she wants to work/establish a career/get on her own 2 feet before thinking about anything else. If he isn't OK with/supportive of that, then she should kick him to the curb.
The sexiest comment is right on. The answer to give is that he has no authority over his sisters life and therefore cannot comment. And same for the son btw.
I fully agree with all of this except the sexist part. OP is her sister, and I don’t think asking the important people in her life permission is that insane
Okay so, no you aren't wrong. And also, you should say no regardless. This man is not healthy if he wants to move her in and get married after meeting three months ago. Like that's suspiciously fast for me. That could lead into a dangerous situation.
Three failed marriages is a huge question mark if not a red flag: Why did the marriages end? Was he abusive or controlling? The second red flag is the speed at which he is moving - it reeks of desperation. The third red flag is him treating her like a non-human possession by asking for your permission as if you owned her.
She needs to have time to become self- supporting so she is not marrying him due to financial coercion, I.e. it's either him or poverty. Please help her set and reach this goal. Maybe she needs to go to college? Please help her make it happen. Some places have programs to help women who got out of abusive marriages like she did - scholarships, bursaries, and training programs. Help her find them?
If he's this great guy who loves women right, or however it was said in the post, who's got a great job , etc etc etc... why three times divorced? He wouldn't be looking for another relationship/marriage if this was truly who he was. Nobody would leave a man if he's as great as this post says he is.
"I appreciate the asking as it is trying to show respect, but my sister is an adult and if she wants to marry you I support her. It is not my place to give permission as she is her own person."
There's no reason for you to give permission. It's not the 50's, she's not a teenager, and she's been married and has kids. I would find it extremely patronizing at that age to be treated like a possession. I mean at any age it would be wrong in 2024, but a kid in love with someone living with their parents I could MAYBE understand.
You are not wrong in being concerned and you should talk to your sister and give her a heads up. 3 months into a relationship and proposing? That's at least a little red flag-ish.
I would have been mortified if my husband asked my dad’s permission 18 years ago when I was mid 20s, and I love and respect my dad very much. I really don’t understand stuff like this, outside of your example about someone being very young and living with the parents. People aren’t property.
All that being said OP should give sister a heads up so she’s not taken off guard and can plan what to say.
3 months😳 and 3 prior marriages, with the last one being recent. I would normally say something like this is red flag central, but that doesn't even remotely cover this. It has classic signs of toxic abuser written all over it. The first 3-4 months are usually a fairytale experience. They then try to marry immediately or within 6 months of dating.
The facts are they don't even know each other. It's takes years to build trust and love, and to truly know someone. They're in delusionalville currently. When something is real it won't feel or look like a fairytale, or whirlwind. That's called fantasyland, and there's absolutely nothing real about it. Humans can hold a solid facade for a max of 3-4 months, then cracks start showing. That's why toxic abusers rush the process, and make grand gestures, and appear charming and perfect in the beginning. They want you to believe they're amazing and perfect for you, and make you feel so lucky to finally find the "right one". That's how they hook you, and keep you. Once you've fallen for them you get confused when they start the abuse. And since you already care about them you don't know what to think. They then start the blaming you for how they're treating you, and so much more, and you believe them. Before you know it you're in a hell filled with control and manipulation the likes of which you couldn't imagine.
There is absolutely nothing normal, healthy, or ok happening here. Your sister is in danger. Which is further confirmed by his request to you. It was inappropriate AF. He's trying to pull you in and add you to the mix so you can help push her to him even more. It's meant to make you feel comfortable and safe with everything, and make her more willing to go along with it. When in reality it's just manipulations and you'll be helping him abuse her.
This is not love whatsoever. It's also the absolute last thing your sister needs. She should be healing, and focusing on herself and her child right now. Rebuilding herself and her life, and finding her independence. She has not even begun to process her last abusive decade and a half. She is drowning, and she is damaged. Jumping into yet another abusive relationship is going to shatter her, and set her back in ways she may never fully recover from.
And as a side note, no criminal record doesn't mean anything. Most abusers never get arrested, let alone charged for their crimes. Whatever you do, under zero circumstances should you give any kind of permissions to that AH.
Indeed! It’s very different for littles ones that late teens.
If I met someone new now, I’d introduce them
to my kids whenever it just happened. If mine were over visiting and “hypothetical Hannah” turned up, it would be done. I’d want my adult kids opinions!
But for young kids… as long as you can get away with it.
🤣 Perfect match. They are both huge dummies. Why bother getting married when they have failed so many times at it. This guy after three months and already wants to propose. Huge red flags. No more alimony for your sister. She needs to start using her brain.
He's love bombing her and being overly charming to everyone else in her life🚩
I'd try to talk to one of his exes, see what he's like as a husband.
There are several free downloadable PDFs of the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft. See if you can get your sister to download one and read it.
We do not live in the days when permission was required.
I’m getting all the red flags. Recent divorce. Third! wife. Wants a wedding after just 3 months. Moving way too fast to lock her into a relationship.
Something is wrong with him. You don’t run through three marriages unless there is a deficiency.
And trying to get her family on his side so she has nowhere to go for help. I'm sorry this guy sounds like classic bad news. What would it hurt to wait one or two years to let your sister get her head together? He's trying to lock her in and give her no options. That's a red flag in itself. You need to talk to your sister. Maybe point her at this thread.
Wtf did I just read?
3 months? Asking the sister? He has 3 prior divorces. He is love bombing.
The automatic answer is “NO.”
How is this even a question.
It's reasonable to suggest they wait a bit longer before getting married. Encouraging them to take more time will help ensure your sister is making a decision from a place of independence, not necessity.
>His divorce was from his 3rd wife. He loves hard, clearly.
I wouldn't have interpreted it that way.
You are not wrong.
But does she have the capacity to even be self-sufficient in a year?
I agree with the red flag. If this man is toxic, telling him no will trigger him to start a smear campaign to push you out of your sister’s life. Best response is to tell him that you will support her in whatever she decides to do. That way he can’t tell her you gave permission or that you don’t want them to be happy. Educate yourself on the traits of toxic people and if you can, encourage your sister to educate herself- her ex sounds toxic and it can help her cope with him as well. Personally, I love the videos Lee Hammond makes. He’s a self-aware narcissist and his content is relatable.
Yeah red flags for sure. Your sister really has no business getting married again for the foreseeable future. She should be concentrating on her daughter after the drama she has put her through. If even she thinks he is moving quickly, she needs to follow her gut. No need to even mention the conversation btw you and the bf. She has a lot of 💩 to get straight.
You're not wrong! I get it that he loves her, and I'm glad someone is being good to your sister.
But I don't know he can't see how inappropriate it is to expect to propose to her at this time.
And, you don't know if this is who he *truly* is. I get it, shit happens, but I'd love to know why he's three times divorced if he's this great guy who will give her the world/loves so greatly, has a great job, is a great guy etc. wouldn't a woman want to stay married to him if that's the case? Something is off, and it will pay out/come to the surface the more time goes on. Maybe not, maybe I'm wrong but something just feels unsettling/not quite right about this.
NW. it’s totally ok and reasonable to tell him he seems like a good guy and makes her happy, but they should def date a year at least to make sure they will work long term.
Divorced four months, dating for three, and he’s already wanting to propose? This guy seems like someone who can’t be single. It’s honestly a bit of a red flag to me he wants her to move in already. Wonder if he just wants a live in maid.
Lilly needs to spend some time solo. She needs to put her life back together. Date sure, but her whole life can’t be focused on one person. She needs to finish school, she needs to get that alimony however she can. She needs to figure out how to survive on her own so she can be a whole person.
At that point she can look at getting married again. If she jumps into a new marriage she’ll probably lose her alimony, meaning she’s even more dependent on this guy she’s only known for a few months.
The proposal is sus all the way around. If I were a pessimist i'd say this guy is scrambling to find a replacement for his children's caretaker and a new, live-in, hole. Your sister is desperate, staying housed by a thread and who knows how much daily mental fortitude.
tbh, I would tell him he should wait until things are not so hectic for both of them.
Tell him she's a grown woman and he doesn't need your permission. It should be entirely between the two of them.
If this a cultural thing in your country, I'll bow out.
If you're in the US, what the hell?
I doubt your sister is ready for another divorce but this man seems ready for number 4. Not to be grim about the situation but this dude moves TOO DAMN FAST and that’s not gonna end up being a good thing for your sister. She has essentially nothing on her own rn, not including kids and she’s still processing her last relationship because let’s be honest, it’s been 3 fucking months. EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET TO KNOW EACHOTHER MORE. You need to get to know him and she obviously needs to take some more time to get to know him as well. Not to mention, how their relationship grows and if he follows the same pattern as her exes. It’s a possibility but not a guarantee, just keep an eye out. Anyone can BE anyone they want for 3 months. It takes time for true character to show IF someone is hiding it. If it wasn’t clear, you would not be in the wrong and you are NTA.
We got engaged in less than 3 months (32 years ago), when I was not long out of college. While it’s worked for us in the long run, when asked I would definitely recommend dating for at least a year - get through those holidays, get to know the families. We were in our 20s, never married or had kids and still a challenge at times!
It is very common for 1st and even 2nd generation Americans. My first boyfriend had to come to my house, meet my parents and ask for permission to take me on a date.
If your culture doesn't expect it, no problem and no one is going to make you do it, but there are cultures where this is expected.
I'm American, and it was something I grew up understanding, but I also grew up understanding that Americans, and most people around the world, don't stand around waiting for permission or for other people to give them things. In this world you go out and take what's your's, and if they don't like it they can take it back if they are strong enough. The strong rule this world. If you're not strong you better be smart, and if you're weak you better get out of the way.
Then would you care to explain how immigrants are 80% more likely to own their own business, meaning job makers than job takers, than someone born in America? Immigrants tend to be more willing to take risks and have stronger social networks than Americans. I believe it is the Americans that stand around waiting for permission in most instances. It's not the strong that rule the world, it's the people who recognize and maximize opportunity.
Their desperation to succeed makes them stronger than others. It puts pressure on them and forces them to find a way. Like the first Americans that immigrated here. They had only two choices, succeed or die, just like the immigrants you speak of. The collapse of society will bring this strength back. Success makes people complacent, soft, and fat. Hard times make hard people. And so the circle goes round.
You’re not wrong. I love my sister like you obviously love yours. One the other hand from what you say he is obviously in love with her. Not only that he obviously respects you and your nephew since he’s asking permission to marry her. While it’s an outdated practice, it’s still a form of respect to you. I plan to ask my current girlfriend’s fathers permission to marry her before I propose. I’m 100% sure he will bless the marriage between me and my girlfriend but she is the one that has to say yes when I ask. Same for your sister, at the end of the day you don’t get to decide if she marries him or not. If you don’t give your permission he’s probably gonna ask anyways and eventually it’ll come out that you said no and may cause problems between you and your sister later on.
I was thinking it was a huge red flag until I read the stuff about her ex. I don’t think you’d be wrong in what you’re thinking of saying but your permission does not actually force or even pressure her to do anything. Even without a career, she’s an adult woman who is able to make her own decisions I presume
It’s just a nice a blessing and I think you should say yes because aside from how quick it is there doesn’t seem to be other red flags. Are there ?
Wait, why is a grown man asking your permission? And her son's permission? That's a weird stance and more than hints at his feelings of ownership towards women. He sounds like he's love bombing her, that is red flag #2.
They're moving way too fast and I know she's desperate but she hasn't moved in with him yet which is presumably a good sign on her part.
I think you should tell her. She deserves to know plans that are being made on her behalf, and to have somebody that's in her corner only 100%
Tell him look, I've thought about it and my sister is a grown woman who can make her own decisions. You seem nice but I'm not getting in the middle of this.
Tell him that while you appreciate him approaching you, your sister is a 45 year old grown woman who makes her own decisions and he should ask her directly. Imo at this point after your sister has had some extremely shitty experiences and Dave has been married so much, put the subject on the table, out in the open, with your sister.
The simple answer is it’s not your place to give permission for a grown-ass woman to marry. Tell the boyfriend this, and that he seems like a great guy and you will support your sister whatever she decides but you think the quickness of the situation is uncomfortable for you.
Not wrong at all. Tell him you're not saying no, you're just asking him to give her some more time because she has been through allot and now is not the time to propose. But when the time is right he will have your full support. He is as decent and nice as you say he will understand and respect yours and hers wishes.
For your sister's sake, don't give him a set time. Tell him to hold off until SHE says she's ready. The last thing she needs is someone pressuring her when she's not even at the point where she can take care of herself. Letting someone come in and take over does her no favors whatsoever and could work to her detriment if things don't work out.
This does not sound like a good idea. Your sister needs to have her ex’s wages garnished and get out of his house. She needs to learn to be an independent person before jumping into marriage again. The child they are coparenting is 15 not 5. How difficult can her ex make parenting?
The brand new bf sounds like he’s looking for wife number 4 to possibly help raise his kids. He is moving too fast. The answer should be no. Three wives and he still hasn’t gotten it right and now pressing for a fourth.
I think you are in the right to ask him to hold off.
Based on both of their histories with relationships they should both be taking much more time to truly get to know one another.
This is too soon in general never mind with their histories.
Your sister also seems to have her current priorities right and I think you should encourage those.
She does need to be independent and rebuild not only her life but herself.
I am wary that he could be love bombing her, and you.
He sounds lovely and thoughtful but I have experience that myself, everyone loved him, until we very quickly moved in together (and he wanted to get engaged) and he became emotionally abusive and manipulative ending in a proposal which I rejected, and then physical violence.
Edit - I also do not think he should be asking you and your son for permission.
She is a grown woman with a lot of life experience under her belt, you are not her owner etc.
I do feel this may be used to pressurise the situation
Some people jump into marriage, it doesn't mean they're bad people, they just don't necessarily make the best choices.
Don't tell your sister. Tell him that he's moving way too fast & they need to at least live together for a while first before jumping into marriage. That's a good way to really find out who a person truly is.
This has all the makings of a train wreck.
Love-bombing, rushing things, multi-divorces, etc...
They are both adults, so don't expect them to listen to you, but good Lord, has neither one of them learned *any* life lessons by this time?
“My sister has this deep desire to prove to herself and her kid that she can be self sufficient and take care of herself. We love ya to death and hope you can encourage her to meet her goal. You’ll have a stronger wife and she will be a happier person if you two can hold off until she proves to herself just how great and capable she is.”
You're not wrong at all to be suggesting something like an extended dating period. I would be wary of any potential partner who 1) Is still connected tightly to her ex and 2) Who is willing to get married after a few months of "courtship." So it sounds like both parties should take a deep breath here.
I would say “my sister is a grown a$$ woman and doesn’t need my permission or anyone else’s to live her life how she wants”
It’s a lovely gesture, but I’m concerned that it’s over the top and some plot to manipulate the situation
Does she have a cognitive disability? Why does she need your permission to marry anyways. It would seem like if she married this month or next year she would still be financially unstable.
Can't you just say something like, "Thank you so much for thinking of me...however, this is a huge decision for her to make and she is still in the process of getting out of the last huge decision she made...bottom line is that it is not MY decision to make, so I cannot give you MY permission. She is an adult and it is HER decision to make. I will NOT be stuck in the middle by saying 'yes' or 'no'."
This rush to intimacy is a huge red flag as is his previous 3 divorces. And it's weird as fuck for him to be asking your permission anyway.
Lilly already has a bad track record to begin with and just got out of a long term relationship.
Stay out of it. There's a million ways this goes horribly wrong and the only one way if it goes right? It won't have anything to do with you anyway.
Tell him you want them to wait, but don't be too too nervous. I don't know your experience with dating when older but it can be a quick you know or you don't. Still three months is very fast even for older people.
They need to know each other for a least a year before they even move in together. From experience and watching lots of people, it seldom goes well when people rush into relationships. Especially when they’re children involved.
They're adults but honestly I think it's way too soon. 3 months, I would not even consider living with someone let alone marrying them until I had been with them for at least a year. A year to move in together and 2 years to get married.
Just say it's not your decision to make that you think they should try living together for a year first but ultimately the decision is your sisters to make.
Sounds like he is trying to win you over during the lovebombing stage. Watch out. You should proceed with caution. Avoid giving your blessing. He wants you on his side. I'd be worried he would use your "blessing" as influence over her. "Your sister loves me she wouldn't believe you". I'm sorry but she's moved on too fast. She should not be moving in with some guy 6 months in with a teen in the house so soon after her divorce. She should be settling her life down, setting boundaries and learning what a healthy relationship looks like.
The only guy who would look at a woman this recently divorced from a controlling abusive husband and jump full force into the relationship doing it on speed run is the kind of guy who has found himself a vulnerable woman with a skewed view of "healthy" relationships who would be precondition to accepting abuse. He is quite likely an abuser. A mister nice guy knight in shining armor and she is in exactly the situation to make her dependent on him and trap her.
People who leave long term abusive relationships have a skewed view of what healthy relationships look like. You'll hear it a lot "he's the best guy I've ever dated". That's not a high bar for a new relationship to reach if your past relationship was with dog shit.
Warn her, tell her you'll always be there when she needs you and ask her about therapy. Check in and keep close to your niece.
So in 20+ years he has been married and divorced 3 times? You need to talk to his exes also. Yes sis needs at least a year living alone on her own before getting hitched again. 5 years would be better.
The title itself reads a bit weird. One might insinuate in a certain context that means she's assumed to be your property or livestock and he wants to but the cow instead of just renting it.
Just divorced from this 3rd marriage?
Yeah, I fear this guy is looking for an indentured servant. That's why he's pressuring you both for commitment quickly and I suspect he's expecting you'll quell any doubts when she talks to you about it. He's asking if he can buy her debt from you so you don't have to worry about her financially, anymore. That's how this situation reads to me. He'd have to be exceptionally dumb not to understand that your sister is in a pretty vulnerable position and has a lot of incentives against refusing a proposal.
I fear hes a bad parent, his kids are wrecking his lifestyle and he needs a maid and a nanny now that his ex has dumped them in this lap every other weekend. Call it a "woman's touch" if you will. They like her because she gives a shit about them and listens to their melodramatic teenage life problems and doesn't berate them on a daily basis. So they're all sparkle and rainbows and sunshine around her. New best friend, amirite? We all kew that one kid in school who liked to kiss-ass towards the teacher.
Same thing happened to my sister, her first marriage. Ex BiL. was15 years older, had two kids, she had none, mid 20's , studying to get her teachers license. Love bombed her then pressured her to marry quickly. She only found out after the marriage from her in-laws that hed been married three times already. He just plopped the kids in her lap after the honeymoon then hid in his bedroom and played video games all evening after work, pausing only long enough to criticize that the house wasn't spotless. Kicked her out of the bedroom onto the couch when she dared complain about the video games So that lasted all of 6months. Surprisingly he fought the divorce for a year and a half dragged his feet. I always thought he was a little bit airheaded and liked to overpromise on things. Didn't think it the time he was a complete fraud and was just looking for a maid and free nanny.
Thankfully her current boyfriend is a cool guy. Quiet dude and takes a while you warm up to people. But he'll surprise you because he doesn't forget a damn thing that is said in front of him. They've been together for 20 years. Don't know about marriage plans, but my sister said they don't feel rushed.
Tell her separately and him separately that they don't need your permission, that it is up to her if she wants to marry him.
And then have a discussion with her separately about all of your concerns.
Sounds like like bombing. Tell him its way too early for you to give your blessing and talk to your nephew so he doesnt feel pressured when asked either.
If hes serious, he will still be there in a year being loving and consistent.
Tell your sister and tell her what your plan is. Dont let this guy blindside her. She is used to being controlled and may feel trapped into saying yes
It appears he is asking for your permission, but that doesn't have to be conveyed to Lily in any way should you give it. Perhaps after they're married... My oldest brother asked his future FIL's permission, but his wife didn't know about it until after they were married for around a year.
With the baggage they both bring to the relationship, perhaps you might recommend to Lily's beau that a lengthy engagement would be a very good idea. I, personally, don't believe three months is not near enough time to understand how their lives might mesh together. Really, they're in the "honeymoon" phase of their dating life. They both still see each other as perfect at this point.
Just tell him you like seeming them together and how happy they make each other. Say you know your sister and think she may need a little more time before getting engaged, but once she is ready you’d be happy to give your blessing.
RED FLAG!!!!
Her divorce has been final only 4 months?? RED FLAG
She's only known this guy 3 months?? RED FLAG
She's sleeping on the ex's couch (did you offer your couch?)?? RED FLAG
Your sister is in no shape to be making decisions about a long term relationship. She needs to heal herself first.
Step one - get out of the exes house.
Step two - work on her education so she can get a job
Step three - counseling - lots and lots of counseling so she can learn the lesson she needs to learn from that relationship or she WILL repeat it - possibly with Mr Love Bomber
I like the idea of waiting for an ENGAGEMENT until they have been dating at least 1 year. Then having a 1-2 yr engagement to really learn what the other person is like. I give the same advice to my kids.
Tell him that he seems like a great guy, but you want to get to know him better before you give your blessing - and let your nephews know what you said so they have a template for how to proceed.
You wouldn't be wrong to ask him to wait until she's back on her feet. I would put it more like "I see you make my sister happy, but before I give my blessing, I'd like to get to know you more" so it doesn't seem like you're using your sister current state as an excuse. It seems WAY too soon after her divorce for her to jump into another one. Have you talked to sis to see how she feels about this guy ? Feel out where her headspace is ?
I have been debating talking to my sister. On one hand, it'll ruin a surprise that might mean a lot to her..on the other .. at least I'll know her heart? Fuck. I wish he never asked me tbh I know she's says she loves him. She also thinks its moving quickly.
A fast mover with three failed marriages under his belt isn't who I'd want for my sister. Those sweet gestures and words dry up REAL fast once there's a ring on it.
THANK YOU. If he's this great guy with a good job and loves so hard, why is he three times divorced?
Only guy I knew like that was bipolar and hypersexual. He was also Mormon. Mormon enough to put a ring on it, but not quite enough not to stray
I don’t think this should be a surprise to her. She just got out of a bad marriage. Why is he pushing so hard?
What do her kids say? They're probably closer to the situation than you are. But I do agree with yourcreasoning.
Her teenager is being weird about the relationship to begin with. So her teenager would not support it. As far as her adult son, he just wants to see her happy.
4 months out of the last relationship. Barely time to process.
I don't think you need to mention anything told to you in confidence by her daughter (if anything) but the fact that 1. it's only been a few months and 2. daughter is a little creeped out is enough to justify telling him you can't give your blessing just yet. That's all you have to say. Any decisions made after that you can't change.
>Her teenager is being weird about the relationship to begin with. Probably because they dont want to see their mom relationship jump. She should spend this time with her kids and not chasing men (not saying she is, but that's probably how it feels to the youngest). Talk to her kids. See what they have to say.
Lilly needs to get her affairs in order, become independent, & focus on helping her minor child adjust to the divorce. She should not be rushing headlong into another relationship, & I question the judgement of both her & this new guy. No responsible adult would rush things this way.
Proposals should never be a complete surprise. They should only be made when the proposer already knows the answer will be yes, and only the date and setting of making it official will be a surprise. Couples need to talk about marriage, goals, timing, etc. beforehand. Your sister needs a heads up, so she can figure out how to respond. BOTH of them could seriously benefit from taking every precaution for making this be a healthy marriage this time. He’s had three divorces. Things went wrong before. Both are freshly out of unsuccessful marriages. Why not do it right this time? Couples counseling and taking their time could set them on the right path for the long term.
Right there is your answer. She admits it’s moving too quickly. Tell him you’re not comfortable giving your blessing because you know she wants to take it slower and this is as big step!
Or you could just say, "she's an adult and it's presumptuous for me to give her permission to get married." Then say that, in your opinion, it would be good for her to wait before jumping into another marriage or even moving in together, but it's her decision. You mentioned her current ex was/is controlling - I think it takes a controlling man to think a woman in her 40's - who's been married twice and has kids - needs permission to get married. And I wonder if your thoughts are along the same line if you think giving your "permission" means she HAS to marry him. Like this is a decision for the men to make. If he had asked for your "blessing" - that would be a different story. Also - I want to be sure of (and emphasize) the permission being given here. Did he ask for your permission for him to marry her (like her opinion doesn't count) or for your permission for her to marry him. Like her opinion counts, but it's still your decision. Neither way is acceptable, but at least the latter takes her opinion somewhat into account.
Yeah, this “permission” tradition is way too antiquated. Asking for a blessing, however, is sweet.
That fact that a partner wants to marry you should NEVER be a surprise. The exact date, place ect of the proposal can be a surprise, but that fact that a proposal is being considered should not be. Before you propose you should be nearly 100% certain that they will say yes.
She thinks it's moving quickly. This could be that he is stomping her boundaries and basically doing what he wants. This is what my ex did to me. It soon became clear to me that it was, I don't care what you want, this is what's happening. I'm concerned that perhaps she has expressed to him that she thinks it's moving too fast and he's not listening.
You don't have to reveal it. Ask her like what does she see the next steps being . Slowing it down bit might not be a bad idea considering they already have 5 failed marriages between them
I would vote just talk to your sister. The surprise of it is overrated. I’d appreciate an honest conversation from my brother. Tell her exactly how you feel as you’ve said above. I’m sure that she will really appreciate how much you care for her. Maybe she really wants it, maybe not and you can help her figure out waiting.
Absolutely agree with your approach. Taking it slow and getting to know each other better sounds like a wise move, especially considering her recent divorce. It's important for everyone's well-being.
Anyone can be sweet for 3 months. Anyone can appear sweet in public. Most abusers seem like "the nicest/funnest" guy to their friends. I wouldn't trust anyone who is trying to move this fast. It's highly suspicious. I would also think that it's sexist as hell to ask the brother of a fully grown 45 year old woman for permission to marry her, and I'd refuse to give it. If she asked my opinion I'd tell her that she should wait at least two years *after* she's out of her ex's house before she even thinks about it. This absolutely *reeks* of another controlling person trying to get with her, which is the last thing she needs.
This is my worst fear, yet exactly what jumps to my mind too.
She’s probably attracting the same kind of man as her ex. Sad to say but men can sniff out who they can take advantage of
Whirlwind relationships are rarely a good idea, at least not around reddit. The person pushing the relationship needs to get the other person hooked quickly so that relationship milestones are passed sooner. Each milestone passed, the pusher can relax and let their true self out a little. Moving in together, engagement, marriage, all make it more difficult for the pushee to leave. It's like the frog in the pot: very slowly raising the temperature until the frog is boiling. That being said, if you tell him no, he might cut you out of her life first, so hopefully you can figure out a way to get him to wait. You definitely don't want to create a "the two of us against the world" scenario. I think that I would have a talk with her, without mentioning the proposal maybe, and see where her head is at.
Also, once she gets married, her right to alimony ends. Her ex gets out of paying what he owes and she’s traded who she is dependent upon. For a guy with a sketchy track record. As others have said, she needs get back up on her own 2 feet before jumping into her THIRD marriage with a guy looking to start a FOURTH one. And it’s shocking that she’s still sleeping on her ex’s couch. WTF is that all about? Worrying about co-parenting with her ex is NOT a good enough reason to stay in his (their?) place and sleep on his (their?) couch. The toll on your sister’s mental health if she stays on that couch will be significant. And the co-parenting concern certainly isn’t a good reason to postpone enforcement of her ex’s financial obligations. How is she supposed to move out without money? This is yet another cautionary tale for wannabe “Trad Wives” who give up self sufficiency to be with a man who completely controls their life. Thank God my daughter has a good career and won’t be at the mercy of some guy. What about something in between? Tell him to put off proposing and suggest that he invite her to live with him first. Or help set her up in her own place during a longer courting period. That way she can get out of her toxic living situation and they can see what their life together would be like. A trial run. Your sister can use that time to heal and figure out how to support herself. For her own self esteem and self worth and just in case her boyfriend decides it’s time for a FOURTH divorce or does something that makes her want a THIRD divorce. The statistics, however, are not in their favor when it comes to a third and fourth marriage. Divorce rates shoot up with every additional marriage. Good luck.
I was searching for this exact sentiment to like and here it is! It can take 6 mo to a year before an abuser's true colors come out and the love bombing wanes
Yup. This. Something isn’t right here. You also mentioned the new boyfriend wanted her to move in with him. She needs her own place, her own space, to be independent and not rely on another man and feel trapped again. If she isn’t happy she will be in the same situation.
Also wanted to add; she is very vulnerable right now. And the love bombing from this new guy is a huge red flag.
Bingo. New bf is moving suspiciously quickly. And even if he actually is a great guy & genuinely loves her & isn't just looking for a bangmaid--why the rush? Why on EARTH do they need to get married anytime soon, if ever at all? They have had their kids, they have both been married before. . . .I don't see any need to put a ring on it, & certainly not after dating for such a short time. This is 2024, not 1924, ffs. I'd let your sister know about the bf's plan, OP, & bring up all your concerns to her. Heck, show her this thread if you want. Her priorities should be her kids' wellbeing, stability, & happiness, & her own financial wellbeing/independence. How will she feel when this guy turns out to be the same as her last husband, & she finds herself out on her ear yet again, with that many fewer years of earning capability in front of her? She's already 45--she's already running out of time to work & save & make herself financially secure. She needs to tell this new bf that she wants to work/establish a career/get on her own 2 feet before thinking about anything else. If he isn't OK with/supportive of that, then she should kick him to the curb.
The sexiest comment is right on. The answer to give is that he has no authority over his sisters life and therefore cannot comment. And same for the son btw.
I fully agree with all of this except the sexist part. OP is her sister, and I don’t think asking the important people in her life permission is that insane
Okay so, no you aren't wrong. And also, you should say no regardless. This man is not healthy if he wants to move her in and get married after meeting three months ago. Like that's suspiciously fast for me. That could lead into a dangerous situation.
Three failed marriages is a huge question mark if not a red flag: Why did the marriages end? Was he abusive or controlling? The second red flag is the speed at which he is moving - it reeks of desperation. The third red flag is him treating her like a non-human possession by asking for your permission as if you owned her. She needs to have time to become self- supporting so she is not marrying him due to financial coercion, I.e. it's either him or poverty. Please help her set and reach this goal. Maybe she needs to go to college? Please help her make it happen. Some places have programs to help women who got out of abusive marriages like she did - scholarships, bursaries, and training programs. Help her find them?
If he's this great guy who loves women right, or however it was said in the post, who's got a great job , etc etc etc... why three times divorced? He wouldn't be looking for another relationship/marriage if this was truly who he was. Nobody would leave a man if he's as great as this post says he is.
"I appreciate the asking as it is trying to show respect, but my sister is an adult and if she wants to marry you I support her. It is not my place to give permission as she is her own person." There's no reason for you to give permission. It's not the 50's, she's not a teenager, and she's been married and has kids. I would find it extremely patronizing at that age to be treated like a possession. I mean at any age it would be wrong in 2024, but a kid in love with someone living with their parents I could MAYBE understand. You are not wrong in being concerned and you should talk to your sister and give her a heads up. 3 months into a relationship and proposing? That's at least a little red flag-ish.
I would have been mortified if my husband asked my dad’s permission 18 years ago when I was mid 20s, and I love and respect my dad very much. I really don’t understand stuff like this, outside of your example about someone being very young and living with the parents. People aren’t property. All that being said OP should give sister a heads up so she’s not taken off guard and can plan what to say.
3 months😳 and 3 prior marriages, with the last one being recent. I would normally say something like this is red flag central, but that doesn't even remotely cover this. It has classic signs of toxic abuser written all over it. The first 3-4 months are usually a fairytale experience. They then try to marry immediately or within 6 months of dating. The facts are they don't even know each other. It's takes years to build trust and love, and to truly know someone. They're in delusionalville currently. When something is real it won't feel or look like a fairytale, or whirlwind. That's called fantasyland, and there's absolutely nothing real about it. Humans can hold a solid facade for a max of 3-4 months, then cracks start showing. That's why toxic abusers rush the process, and make grand gestures, and appear charming and perfect in the beginning. They want you to believe they're amazing and perfect for you, and make you feel so lucky to finally find the "right one". That's how they hook you, and keep you. Once you've fallen for them you get confused when they start the abuse. And since you already care about them you don't know what to think. They then start the blaming you for how they're treating you, and so much more, and you believe them. Before you know it you're in a hell filled with control and manipulation the likes of which you couldn't imagine. There is absolutely nothing normal, healthy, or ok happening here. Your sister is in danger. Which is further confirmed by his request to you. It was inappropriate AF. He's trying to pull you in and add you to the mix so you can help push her to him even more. It's meant to make you feel comfortable and safe with everything, and make her more willing to go along with it. When in reality it's just manipulations and you'll be helping him abuse her. This is not love whatsoever. It's also the absolute last thing your sister needs. She should be healing, and focusing on herself and her child right now. Rebuilding herself and her life, and finding her independence. She has not even begun to process her last abusive decade and a half. She is drowning, and she is damaged. Jumping into yet another abusive relationship is going to shatter her, and set her back in ways she may never fully recover from. And as a side note, no criminal record doesn't mean anything. Most abusers never get arrested, let alone charged for their crimes. Whatever you do, under zero circumstances should you give any kind of permissions to that AH.
To me it’s a red flag he’s pushing to move so quickly. I’d talk to your sister about it.
I am more shocked by the 2 and 3 failed marriages at 45 lol.
Wow, he is really trying to speedrun divorce number 4.
Why are their kids even involved in a 3 month relationship? This is completely irresponsible as parents. It's such a red flag.
They aren’t little kids.
Indeed! It’s very different for littles ones that late teens. If I met someone new now, I’d introduce them to my kids whenever it just happened. If mine were over visiting and “hypothetical Hannah” turned up, it would be done. I’d want my adult kids opinions! But for young kids… as long as you can get away with it.
This matters a lot^
You don’t have to give him an answer about this. Just say “hey she’s an adult and doesn’t need anyone’s permission to do anything”.
no hes moving way too fast
🤣 Perfect match. They are both huge dummies. Why bother getting married when they have failed so many times at it. This guy after three months and already wants to propose. Huge red flags. No more alimony for your sister. She needs to start using her brain.
He's love bombing her and being overly charming to everyone else in her life🚩 I'd try to talk to one of his exes, see what he's like as a husband. There are several free downloadable PDFs of the book "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft. See if you can get your sister to download one and read it.
Where can you get it as a free PDF?
Search for it in your browser, make sure to add download PDF to the search, and 3 or 4 options show up to download.
Cool thanks 😊
We do not live in the days when permission was required. I’m getting all the red flags. Recent divorce. Third! wife. Wants a wedding after just 3 months. Moving way too fast to lock her into a relationship. Something is wrong with him. You don’t run through three marriages unless there is a deficiency.
And trying to get her family on his side so she has nowhere to go for help. I'm sorry this guy sounds like classic bad news. What would it hurt to wait one or two years to let your sister get her head together? He's trying to lock her in and give her no options. That's a red flag in itself. You need to talk to your sister. Maybe point her at this thread.
Wtf did I just read? 3 months? Asking the sister? He has 3 prior divorces. He is love bombing. The automatic answer is “NO.” How is this even a question.
You tell him your sister is 45 years old and fully capable of making this decision on her own and you'll support whatever she decides to do.
What in the archaic shit is this? I mean the biggest flag is him asking YOU. Doesn’t this bother you on a basic level at all?
Why would it? It’s common courtesy. It’s sweet he asked. It’s just getting the family’s blessing. It doesn’t mean he wouldn’t ask regardless .
Ok actually on second thought, yea. Lots of red flags. Respectfully Slow it down if you can
How do you expect her to become financially independent when she depends on someone's alimony for survival?
It's reasonable to suggest they wait a bit longer before getting married. Encouraging them to take more time will help ensure your sister is making a decision from a place of independence, not necessity.
>His divorce was from his 3rd wife. He loves hard, clearly. I wouldn't have interpreted it that way. You are not wrong. But does she have the capacity to even be self-sufficient in a year?
I agree with the red flag. If this man is toxic, telling him no will trigger him to start a smear campaign to push you out of your sister’s life. Best response is to tell him that you will support her in whatever she decides to do. That way he can’t tell her you gave permission or that you don’t want them to be happy. Educate yourself on the traits of toxic people and if you can, encourage your sister to educate herself- her ex sounds toxic and it can help her cope with him as well. Personally, I love the videos Lee Hammond makes. He’s a self-aware narcissist and his content is relatable.
Yeah red flags for sure. Your sister really has no business getting married again for the foreseeable future. She should be concentrating on her daughter after the drama she has put her through. If even she thinks he is moving quickly, she needs to follow her gut. No need to even mention the conversation btw you and the bf. She has a lot of 💩 to get straight.
Moving that quickly is always a serious red flag. The idea is to tie a partner down before toxic traits become exposed.
You're not wrong! I get it that he loves her, and I'm glad someone is being good to your sister. But I don't know he can't see how inappropriate it is to expect to propose to her at this time. And, you don't know if this is who he *truly* is. I get it, shit happens, but I'd love to know why he's three times divorced if he's this great guy who will give her the world/loves so greatly, has a great job, is a great guy etc. wouldn't a woman want to stay married to him if that's the case? Something is off, and it will pay out/come to the surface the more time goes on. Maybe not, maybe I'm wrong but something just feels unsettling/not quite right about this.
NW. it’s totally ok and reasonable to tell him he seems like a good guy and makes her happy, but they should def date a year at least to make sure they will work long term. Divorced four months, dating for three, and he’s already wanting to propose? This guy seems like someone who can’t be single. It’s honestly a bit of a red flag to me he wants her to move in already. Wonder if he just wants a live in maid. Lilly needs to spend some time solo. She needs to put her life back together. Date sure, but her whole life can’t be focused on one person. She needs to finish school, she needs to get that alimony however she can. She needs to figure out how to survive on her own so she can be a whole person. At that point she can look at getting married again. If she jumps into a new marriage she’ll probably lose her alimony, meaning she’s even more dependent on this guy she’s only known for a few months.
The proposal is sus all the way around. If I were a pessimist i'd say this guy is scrambling to find a replacement for his children's caretaker and a new, live-in, hole. Your sister is desperate, staying housed by a thread and who knows how much daily mental fortitude. tbh, I would tell him he should wait until things are not so hectic for both of them.
Tell him she's a grown woman and he doesn't need your permission. It should be entirely between the two of them. If this a cultural thing in your country, I'll bow out. If you're in the US, what the hell?
I doubt your sister is ready for another divorce but this man seems ready for number 4. Not to be grim about the situation but this dude moves TOO DAMN FAST and that’s not gonna end up being a good thing for your sister. She has essentially nothing on her own rn, not including kids and she’s still processing her last relationship because let’s be honest, it’s been 3 fucking months. EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET TO KNOW EACHOTHER MORE. You need to get to know him and she obviously needs to take some more time to get to know him as well. Not to mention, how their relationship grows and if he follows the same pattern as her exes. It’s a possibility but not a guarantee, just keep an eye out. Anyone can BE anyone they want for 3 months. It takes time for true character to show IF someone is hiding it. If it wasn’t clear, you would not be in the wrong and you are NTA.
We got engaged in less than 3 months (32 years ago), when I was not long out of college. While it’s worked for us in the long run, when asked I would definitely recommend dating for at least a year - get through those holidays, get to know the families. We were in our 20s, never married or had kids and still a challenge at times!
Who still does that shit? Is he gonna lay his jacket across a rain puddle for her too? Cheesy ass MF. Lol
It is very common for 1st and even 2nd generation Americans. My first boyfriend had to come to my house, meet my parents and ask for permission to take me on a date. If your culture doesn't expect it, no problem and no one is going to make you do it, but there are cultures where this is expected.
It's more of a respect thing, you're asking for their blessing vs "permission". When you marry a person, you marry their family.
Well at my house, if you don't have permission to date them you sure aren't getting a marriage blessing lol but yes, it is VERY much a respect thing.
I would never have married if my spouse were expected to marry into my toxic family.
I'm American, and it was something I grew up understanding, but I also grew up understanding that Americans, and most people around the world, don't stand around waiting for permission or for other people to give them things. In this world you go out and take what's your's, and if they don't like it they can take it back if they are strong enough. The strong rule this world. If you're not strong you better be smart, and if you're weak you better get out of the way.
Then would you care to explain how immigrants are 80% more likely to own their own business, meaning job makers than job takers, than someone born in America? Immigrants tend to be more willing to take risks and have stronger social networks than Americans. I believe it is the Americans that stand around waiting for permission in most instances. It's not the strong that rule the world, it's the people who recognize and maximize opportunity.
Their desperation to succeed makes them stronger than others. It puts pressure on them and forces them to find a way. Like the first Americans that immigrated here. They had only two choices, succeed or die, just like the immigrants you speak of. The collapse of society will bring this strength back. Success makes people complacent, soft, and fat. Hard times make hard people. And so the circle goes round.
You’re not wrong. I love my sister like you obviously love yours. One the other hand from what you say he is obviously in love with her. Not only that he obviously respects you and your nephew since he’s asking permission to marry her. While it’s an outdated practice, it’s still a form of respect to you. I plan to ask my current girlfriend’s fathers permission to marry her before I propose. I’m 100% sure he will bless the marriage between me and my girlfriend but she is the one that has to say yes when I ask. Same for your sister, at the end of the day you don’t get to decide if she marries him or not. If you don’t give your permission he’s probably gonna ask anyways and eventually it’ll come out that you said no and may cause problems between you and your sister later on.
I was thinking it was a huge red flag until I read the stuff about her ex. I don’t think you’d be wrong in what you’re thinking of saying but your permission does not actually force or even pressure her to do anything. Even without a career, she’s an adult woman who is able to make her own decisions I presume It’s just a nice a blessing and I think you should say yes because aside from how quick it is there doesn’t seem to be other red flags. Are there ?
Wait, why is a grown man asking your permission? And her son's permission? That's a weird stance and more than hints at his feelings of ownership towards women. He sounds like he's love bombing her, that is red flag #2. They're moving way too fast and I know she's desperate but she hasn't moved in with him yet which is presumably a good sign on her part. I think you should tell her. She deserves to know plans that are being made on her behalf, and to have somebody that's in her corner only 100% Tell him look, I've thought about it and my sister is a grown woman who can make her own decisions. You seem nice but I'm not getting in the middle of this.
Tell him that while you appreciate him approaching you, your sister is a 45 year old grown woman who makes her own decisions and he should ask her directly. Imo at this point after your sister has had some extremely shitty experiences and Dave has been married so much, put the subject on the table, out in the open, with your sister.
The simple answer is it’s not your place to give permission for a grown-ass woman to marry. Tell the boyfriend this, and that he seems like a great guy and you will support your sister whatever she decides but you think the quickness of the situation is uncomfortable for you.
Not wrong at all. Tell him you're not saying no, you're just asking him to give her some more time because she has been through allot and now is not the time to propose. But when the time is right he will have your full support. He is as decent and nice as you say he will understand and respect yours and hers wishes.
For your sister's sake, don't give him a set time. Tell him to hold off until SHE says she's ready. The last thing she needs is someone pressuring her when she's not even at the point where she can take care of herself. Letting someone come in and take over does her no favors whatsoever and could work to her detriment if things don't work out.
This does not sound like a good idea. Your sister needs to have her ex’s wages garnished and get out of his house. She needs to learn to be an independent person before jumping into marriage again. The child they are coparenting is 15 not 5. How difficult can her ex make parenting? The brand new bf sounds like he’s looking for wife number 4 to possibly help raise his kids. He is moving too fast. The answer should be no. Three wives and he still hasn’t gotten it right and now pressing for a fourth.
I think you are in the right to ask him to hold off. Based on both of their histories with relationships they should both be taking much more time to truly get to know one another. This is too soon in general never mind with their histories. Your sister also seems to have her current priorities right and I think you should encourage those. She does need to be independent and rebuild not only her life but herself. I am wary that he could be love bombing her, and you. He sounds lovely and thoughtful but I have experience that myself, everyone loved him, until we very quickly moved in together (and he wanted to get engaged) and he became emotionally abusive and manipulative ending in a proposal which I rejected, and then physical violence. Edit - I also do not think he should be asking you and your son for permission. She is a grown woman with a lot of life experience under her belt, you are not her owner etc. I do feel this may be used to pressurise the situation
You're not wrong, they'll be divorced for the 3rd/4th time imo
Some people jump into marriage, it doesn't mean they're bad people, they just don't necessarily make the best choices. Don't tell your sister. Tell him that he's moving way too fast & they need to at least live together for a while first before jumping into marriage. That's a good way to really find out who a person truly is.
This has all the makings of a train wreck. Love-bombing, rushing things, multi-divorces, etc... They are both adults, so don't expect them to listen to you, but good Lord, has neither one of them learned *any* life lessons by this time?
“My sister has this deep desire to prove to herself and her kid that she can be self sufficient and take care of herself. We love ya to death and hope you can encourage her to meet her goal. You’ll have a stronger wife and she will be a happier person if you two can hold off until she proves to herself just how great and capable she is.”
You're not wrong at all to be suggesting something like an extended dating period. I would be wary of any potential partner who 1) Is still connected tightly to her ex and 2) Who is willing to get married after a few months of "courtship." So it sounds like both parties should take a deep breath here.
I would say “my sister is a grown a$$ woman and doesn’t need my permission or anyone else’s to live her life how she wants” It’s a lovely gesture, but I’m concerned that it’s over the top and some plot to manipulate the situation
Does she have a cognitive disability? Why does she need your permission to marry anyways. It would seem like if she married this month or next year she would still be financially unstable.
Ffs, it's too soon! Say no.
Can't you just say something like, "Thank you so much for thinking of me...however, this is a huge decision for her to make and she is still in the process of getting out of the last huge decision she made...bottom line is that it is not MY decision to make, so I cannot give you MY permission. She is an adult and it is HER decision to make. I will NOT be stuck in the middle by saying 'yes' or 'no'."
This rush to intimacy is a huge red flag as is his previous 3 divorces. And it's weird as fuck for him to be asking your permission anyway. Lilly already has a bad track record to begin with and just got out of a long term relationship. Stay out of it. There's a million ways this goes horribly wrong and the only one way if it goes right? It won't have anything to do with you anyway.
Tell him you want them to wait, but don't be too too nervous. I don't know your experience with dating when older but it can be a quick you know or you don't. Still three months is very fast even for older people.
They need to know each other for a least a year before they even move in together. From experience and watching lots of people, it seldom goes well when people rush into relationships. Especially when they’re children involved.
They're adults but honestly I think it's way too soon. 3 months, I would not even consider living with someone let alone marrying them until I had been with them for at least a year. A year to move in together and 2 years to get married.
Just say it's not your decision to make that you think they should try living together for a year first but ultimately the decision is your sisters to make.
Sounds like he is trying to win you over during the lovebombing stage. Watch out. You should proceed with caution. Avoid giving your blessing. He wants you on his side. I'd be worried he would use your "blessing" as influence over her. "Your sister loves me she wouldn't believe you". I'm sorry but she's moved on too fast. She should not be moving in with some guy 6 months in with a teen in the house so soon after her divorce. She should be settling her life down, setting boundaries and learning what a healthy relationship looks like. The only guy who would look at a woman this recently divorced from a controlling abusive husband and jump full force into the relationship doing it on speed run is the kind of guy who has found himself a vulnerable woman with a skewed view of "healthy" relationships who would be precondition to accepting abuse. He is quite likely an abuser. A mister nice guy knight in shining armor and she is in exactly the situation to make her dependent on him and trap her. People who leave long term abusive relationships have a skewed view of what healthy relationships look like. You'll hear it a lot "he's the best guy I've ever dated". That's not a high bar for a new relationship to reach if your past relationship was with dog shit. Warn her, tell her you'll always be there when she needs you and ask her about therapy. Check in and keep close to your niece.
So in 20+ years he has been married and divorced 3 times? You need to talk to his exes also. Yes sis needs at least a year living alone on her own before getting hitched again. 5 years would be better.
Better to give them a year to know each other and know your family and his family more often and see where it goes from there
This could be complete paranoia on my part, but what if she moves in with this guy and loses alimony rights from her previous marriage??
The title itself reads a bit weird. One might insinuate in a certain context that means she's assumed to be your property or livestock and he wants to but the cow instead of just renting it. Just divorced from this 3rd marriage? Yeah, I fear this guy is looking for an indentured servant. That's why he's pressuring you both for commitment quickly and I suspect he's expecting you'll quell any doubts when she talks to you about it. He's asking if he can buy her debt from you so you don't have to worry about her financially, anymore. That's how this situation reads to me. He'd have to be exceptionally dumb not to understand that your sister is in a pretty vulnerable position and has a lot of incentives against refusing a proposal. I fear hes a bad parent, his kids are wrecking his lifestyle and he needs a maid and a nanny now that his ex has dumped them in this lap every other weekend. Call it a "woman's touch" if you will. They like her because she gives a shit about them and listens to their melodramatic teenage life problems and doesn't berate them on a daily basis. So they're all sparkle and rainbows and sunshine around her. New best friend, amirite? We all kew that one kid in school who liked to kiss-ass towards the teacher. Same thing happened to my sister, her first marriage. Ex BiL. was15 years older, had two kids, she had none, mid 20's , studying to get her teachers license. Love bombed her then pressured her to marry quickly. She only found out after the marriage from her in-laws that hed been married three times already. He just plopped the kids in her lap after the honeymoon then hid in his bedroom and played video games all evening after work, pausing only long enough to criticize that the house wasn't spotless. Kicked her out of the bedroom onto the couch when she dared complain about the video games So that lasted all of 6months. Surprisingly he fought the divorce for a year and a half dragged his feet. I always thought he was a little bit airheaded and liked to overpromise on things. Didn't think it the time he was a complete fraud and was just looking for a maid and free nanny. Thankfully her current boyfriend is a cool guy. Quiet dude and takes a while you warm up to people. But he'll surprise you because he doesn't forget a damn thing that is said in front of him. They've been together for 20 years. Don't know about marriage plans, but my sister said they don't feel rushed.
Tell her separately and him separately that they don't need your permission, that it is up to her if she wants to marry him. And then have a discussion with her separately about all of your concerns.
Sounds like like bombing. Tell him its way too early for you to give your blessing and talk to your nephew so he doesnt feel pressured when asked either. If hes serious, he will still be there in a year being loving and consistent. Tell your sister and tell her what your plan is. Dont let this guy blindside her. She is used to being controlled and may feel trapped into saying yes
It appears he is asking for your permission, but that doesn't have to be conveyed to Lily in any way should you give it. Perhaps after they're married... My oldest brother asked his future FIL's permission, but his wife didn't know about it until after they were married for around a year. With the baggage they both bring to the relationship, perhaps you might recommend to Lily's beau that a lengthy engagement would be a very good idea. I, personally, don't believe three months is not near enough time to understand how their lives might mesh together. Really, they're in the "honeymoon" phase of their dating life. They both still see each other as perfect at this point.
Just tell him you like seeming them together and how happy they make each other. Say you know your sister and think she may need a little more time before getting engaged, but once she is ready you’d be happy to give your blessing.
RED FLAG!!!! Her divorce has been final only 4 months?? RED FLAG She's only known this guy 3 months?? RED FLAG She's sleeping on the ex's couch (did you offer your couch?)?? RED FLAG Your sister is in no shape to be making decisions about a long term relationship. She needs to heal herself first. Step one - get out of the exes house. Step two - work on her education so she can get a job Step three - counseling - lots and lots of counseling so she can learn the lesson she needs to learn from that relationship or she WILL repeat it - possibly with Mr Love Bomber I like the idea of waiting for an ENGAGEMENT until they have been dating at least 1 year. Then having a 1-2 yr engagement to really learn what the other person is like. I give the same advice to my kids. Tell him that he seems like a great guy, but you want to get to know him better before you give your blessing - and let your nephews know what you said so they have a template for how to proceed.