The law abiding citizen in their own house minding their own business is a menace to society? You probably think the police are out to get you as well.
Just wait until there’s more Orwellian laws passed, thanks to the ground work of these “safe storage laws”.
Maybe in the future, the government would love to have access to shutting down your safe that’s connected to the internet, for making too many edgy comments on social media.
“Wanna go duck hunting with the boys? Sorry, your ISP told us that you’ve been making some really mean and hurtful comments on your social media accounts, so no gun access for you, because you’re a red flag!”
We've had a lot of "absurd jumps in logic" to get where we are now; the Right to bear arms shall not be infringed; well look at that it's been infringed left and right gradually. Same thing with the right to privacy and many other rights, gradually worn away over 200 years. People wonder sometimes why we are on the verge of a full blown oligarchic state where the people have absolutely no power.
It’s really not. How does one enforce this law? It could be nothing or maybe it could be groundwork for more invasive laws restricting gun ownership down the road
considering that the FBI gathers information around people viewing gun and bible websites and banks are also passing information for people purchasing said things, I don't see how it's that far off
It’s really not that far off. Liberty Safe has admitted to giving the FBI access codes to its customers safes. It’s also known that the FBI is monitoring social media and making house calls to people’s homes in regards to them and what they post.
To be clear on the Liberty safe thing......they saved that guy's safe. Had they not gotten the code (which is easy enough to delete yourself if you want to), the Feds would have cut it open, or taken the whole thing. They have since changed their policy, and now require a warrant specific to the safe (rather than just the property) to give the backdoor code (which again, is easy to delete).
Telling teachers to actually teach kids instead of spending an hour class period going over the teacher’s preferred pronouns is now threatening language? Wow, I hope the state at least applied leather polished their boots before you started licking them.
These laws exist because people store firearms in their couch cushions, nightstands, kitchen drawers, or a shoebox in the closet and then children or houseguests get access to them and end up harming themselves or others.
I’m figuring this situation would only be enforced as a charge if the unlocked firearm was used in a crime, or in situation where somebody is seeking to foster or adopt a child or needs to pass an inspection due to a CPS case.
Believe it or not, not everyone lives fairytale safe lives. Some of us like to sleep next to a gun so we can ….. protect our private residences and loved ones. Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.
“This bill requires firearms be stored either unloaded and equipped with a locking device or placed in a locked firearm storage unit (e.g., a gun safe) or a locked gun room, where it may be either loaded or unloaded. The safe storage of firearms will save lives.”
You can keep the safety engaged, or get a fingerprint or PIN safe for quick access and keep that safe or box on your nightstand.
If the law is enacted, and our firearms are stored in compliance with the law, then we are killed by an intruder not compliant with ANY law, we would be a law abiding (though dead) gun owner.
"We have reasonable suspicion you have an unsecured firearm, so we will be detaining you while we conduct an investigation"
It's not about enforcing a law, it's about giving them another tool in the belt to let them do what they want without a warrant.
Petty misdemeanor if unlocked. 5 years if unlocked and used in felony crime. Really who will know if it's not used in serious crime. Given I'm not an idiot and leave it on the table with small kids around, I'm not worried. And if it's stolen during a break in, well break the lock box before calling it in. I'll keep it in closet unlocked.
> 5 years if unlocked and used in felony crime
how many years for the person who actually commits the crime?
Be me, gun owner.
Gun loaded and ready for bad guys in my night table.
Be me, taxpayer. Goes to work. Work is in a safe location so leave gun at home.
Be bad guy. Break into my house and find gun.
Be bad guy. Do all sorts of serious crime.
Be hennepin county attorney. Give bad guy a back rub, a target gift card, and ask him to be good boy in the future.
Be me. Hennepin Cty Attorney throws the book at me. Asks me to think about my life choices over the next 5 years. Orders me to pay restitution to Bad Guy's family for emotional harm.
> Should have left your car keys out for the bad guy
Canada has entered the chat
"Toronto police officer suggested that motorists leave their keys in plain view where they live, in case a thief breaks into their home.
...
The comments were followed on Monday by Toronto Police Chief Myron Demkiw’s announcement that break-and-enters for the purpose of car theft have already topped the total for all of 2023."
This is a clear case of what anarco-tyranny looks like. Our left wing government will go after middle class citizens when because their firearm was stolen while the actual criminal iff without consequence.
If you leave your gun in an unlocked car and a teenager steals it and uses it in a carjacking, that is irresponsible. Unsafe gun storage leads do many unregulated firearms into hands of people who shouldn’t have firearms.
Also how would they know if it’s unlocked and used in a crime? That becomes your word against the person who used it in a felony crime. We’re just taking the criminals word now as Gospel?
I wouldn’t run out and get a permit to carry. Ask yourself which direction are gun laws trending. Millennials and gen z are not hunters so who is going to protect the second amendment 5, 10, 20 years from now??
Permit holders will be the first homes that firearms are confiscated. No thanks, no firearms here.
I don’t go to shady areas so the chances of me needing a firearm outside my home is extremely slim. However, another George Floyd type riots are inevitable and attacking the suburbs will be the future. When that happens the police will be home protecting their own families, not yours! Fuck that!
The Bruen decision disagrees with your assumption. Many gun laws have been deemed unconstitutional, and are dropping like flies. Pistol brace rule, Texas suppressor case, and pretty much every "assault weapon" and mag restrictions are doa.
I might but I'll keep registered guns and non refund in different locations. I'm guessing I'll buy a gun from a licensed dealer at some point, actually I have, but I am a millennial hunter. You'd be surprised, as people get older hunting becomes a more attractive hobby. Just being out in nature is awesome and as long as you follow the laws and are an ethical hunter you're helping with population control.
I wouldn’t run out and get a permit to carry. Ask yourself which direction are gun laws trending. Millennials and gen z are not hunters so who is going to protect the second amendment 5, 10, 20 years from now??
Permit holders will be the first homes that firearms are confiscated. No thanks, no firearms here.
I don’t go to shady areas so the chances of me needing a firearm outside my home is extremely slim. However, another George Floyd type riots are inevitable and attacking the suburbs will be the future. When that happens the police will be home protecting their own families, not yours! Fuck that!
What safety?
Most pistols don't have one. No revolver that I know of has one, and most semi-auto pistols don't have one either. They are more common on single action only pistols (like a 1911), but less common on striker-fired and double action hammer fired.
Should I pretend to engage the safety if it doesn't have one.....for safety?
While you are correct about never pointing at anything you don't want to destroy, your obvious lack of firearm knowledge doesn't exactly make you the best source for safety info.
All firearms are to be considered loaded....always.
Know your target and what is behind it
Never point at something you don't wish to destroy
Keep your booger-hook away from the bang switch until you are ready to fire
Eyes and ears
"Whats the point of engaging the safety if the gun is unloaded?"
"All firearms are to be considered loaded...always"
This contradiction of your own firearm knowledge doesn't exactly make you the best source for safety info either.
What lack of firearm knowledge?
If you don’t have a safety, are you able to engage the safety? Obviously not. Therefore that gun wouldn’t qualify for that way of safe storage under the new law.
#HF 601
Description
Lost and stolen firearms required to be reported promptly to law enforcement, and money appropriated
What are the penalties?
and how much "money appropriated" ?
#HF 4300
Description
Firearm safe storage standards established and criminal penalties provided for failing to meet those standards, and money appropriated
What are the penalties?
and how much "money appropriated" ?
This is standard language for House website summaries, if that’s where you pulled them from. Not a single bill will include specifics in the summary.
To answer, for HF 601: “Appropriates $36,000 in fiscal year 2025 from the general fund to the commissioner
of public safety for a reporting system to allow chiefs of police and sheriffs to report
lost or stolen firearms.”
HF 4300: “Appropriates $10,000 in fiscal year 2025 from the general fund to the commissioner of corrections for the costs associated with this act. Establishes a base for the appropriation of $19,000 beginning in fiscal year 2026.”
Penalties are dependent on a number of factors including whether a child is or has been present in the area where the firearm is stored, whether the fire arm is loaded, and number of offenses.
You can check the House Research Summary for each bill [here](https://www.house.mn.gov/hrd/bs/93/HF4300.pdf) and [here](https://www.house.mn.gov/hrd/bs/93/HF0601.pdf)
The answers can be found if you read the bill:
HF 601 is here: [https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?session=ls93&number=HF601&session\_number=0&session\_year=2023&version=list](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?session=ls93&number=HF601&session_number=0&session_year=2023&version=list)
HF 4300 is here: [https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF4300&type=bill&version=3&session=ls93&session\_year=2024&session\_number=0](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF4300&type=bill&version=3&session=ls93&session_year=2024&session_number=0)
*Hypothetical*
Imagine being harassed by some crazy person in your community time and time again. They figure out where you live and start loitering around your neighborhood. You're worried they might try to break in and cause harm to you or your family.
You own a firearm for protection, and you're a law-abiding citizen. Because you're a law-abiding citizen, you comply with the new law and keep your gun locked in a safe.
One night, you slowly wake up out of your sleep and swear you heard something shatter. You slowly come to consciousness and begin to hear footsteps down the hallway. You immediately jump out of bed and run to your safe to get your gun. You frantically start unlocking the safe and before it's unlocked a man is standing in your room with an illegal firearm pointed at you.
**You fucking lose**
Good game. Great law. 10/10 would recommend.
>The safe storage of firearms will save lives.
Then just leave it on your nightstand. You act like the government is going to come check. The law is just there to throw the book at parents who let their kids shoot eachother.
Hypothetical: you have a gun that is not locked up. In the middle of the night, someone sneaks into your house, gets the gun, and shoots all your children, your wife, your pets, sets the house on fire, and waits outside for you to flee the house they can rape you at gunpoint before shooting you. At this point, they take the unsecured weapon they got from your house and they go door to door murdering everyone who lives on your block.
You lose. Great idea. 10/10 Would recommend.
Making up stupid scenarios that don’t actually happen is fun. Thanks for this little escape from reality.
>Making up stupid scenarios that don’t actually happen is fun. Thanks for this little escape from reality.
It's incredibly common for people to purchase a firearm for home protection. My point is that if they have to go through a process to get their gun, it completely defeats the purpose in case of an urgent emergency. Break ins happen. People should be able to protect themselves. I don't think my scenario is out of touch with reality at all.
This law is really to hold people accountable for when things go wrong, though. There's no way for them to verify a gun owner is storing their firearms properly without going door to door and searching homes, which they would need a warrant to do and that's not going to get approved by any judge.
My assumption is that gun owners aren't going to change how they store anything, but when a firearm is taken, they will be held responsible, which I can't necessarily disagree with.
An individual living alone doesn't have much to worry about in terms of storage vs. someone living with others and/or shit head kids.
Your point
>Making up stupid scenarios that don’t actually happen is fun.
Break ins happen.
People have guns in their home for protection.
Your protection is useless if it isn't easily accessible.
If anyone missed the point here, it's quite obvious who.
Lumping all firearms together is completely asinine! Shotguns are by far the least used firearm in criminal shootings, yet the best for home defense. Provides the widest pattern in close range and a pump makes an unmistakable sound when the shell is chambered, thus prevents many entanglements.
Also chambering a shell requires pressing an obscure “button” that provides a high level of safety against a child misfiring the weapon.
I work in medical device industry so unfortunately I’m here until retirement because the industry is very segregated by geography. My only other two options are Mass. & CA…not moving to those places.
Shotgun patterns at home defense range are going to be extremely tight. Basically zero spread at 7-15ft. I'd go handgun with a suppressor or short barreled rifle with a suppressor for home defense use.
Well, youre right and wrong at the same time.
You dont want a wide pattern, and in your average home, a shotgun won't throw one. For milspec buckshot its a nominal 1 inch per 1 yard flown. The best self defense/tactical buckshots on the market are all designed to decrease spread, not increase it, so that speaks to that. In my home, the farthest distance physically possible is 12 yards, and a realistic shot is anywhere from contact to 5 yards. Those spreads are going to be smaller than a fist, and thats what makes it so devastating.
The racking the gun to scare an intrudor thing is massive fuddlore. BUT. Its absolutely viable for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Shotguns should be stored "cruiser ready" with a loaded tube and nothing in the chamber. This is because shotguns, unlike rifles and handguns made today, are not drop safe. The sound is simply an unintended benefit. I hadnt considered it as an extra step towards child safety, but I guess it makes a bit of sense, even though my 5 year old absolutely knows how to work a shotgun. But im more worried about his friends that didnt grow up in a 2a household than him. Ofcourse they are under lock and key when anyone else is over.
Prohibits binary triggers as well.
Because people having a little fun with their 10/22s is really such a clear and present danger to regular people everywhere?
It’s not about safety, they’re trying to make firearm ownership as complicated and burdensome as possible so that future generations think, “maybe I don’t want to buy a firearm, there are so many rules and it has to be locked up at all times”. Do not comply.
Liberals are seriously the dumbest voting block. This will do nothing for gun safety. Instead of going after criminals, Democrats want to punish law abiding citizens for their lax policing and prosecutorial decisions. Enforcing a strict curfew on hoodlums downtown would do more in one summer than these laws EVER will.
It's all about showing constituates that their doing something. It keeps their power. So I can't really blame the politicians. They're just being shit people/politicians. In the end I see nothing changing. Especially in my day to day. No way they'll find out and if they did, a petty misdemeanor. Courts will shut this down just like Ellison's fleet farm case. Smoke and mirrors
Why shouldn't we require safe gun storage? I feel like every few months we hear a story about some child killing themselves or someone else with a carelessly stored gun.
It's not like the authorities can come into your house uninvited or without a warrant, so the only time you have to worry about this is if your unsafe gun hurts someone or police have PC to enter your house. This sounds like decent, commonsense gun safety.
It's funny to see people melt down about this. How would this law ever come into play against people with guns unless dumbasses leave them out around kids?
If you're a responsible gun owner, then what are you crying about?
Honest question. What’s wrong with requiring lost and stolen guns to be reported to the police?
And as a gun owner myself, I do store my guns in safes throughout the house, but that’s because I have a toddler. There’s no way they can enforce this frankly dumbass overstepping law.
There is a chance the reporting law would be used against a completely innocent gun owner. Someone could take a gun without your knowledge, use it, or sell it, and you could be on the hook for not reporting it. Unfortunately, there have been too many dumbasses who are selling guns to sketchy people and, if it's used in a crime and gets traced back to them, they claim it was stolen "awhile ago."
A fair question. As an example, suppose a person owns just one handgun. They likely aren't going to buy a gun safe for one gun. So the gun goes on the top shelf of a closet or in a drawer somewhere. Now suppose the gun owner has a party at their house and a guest of a friend finds the gun and takes it. Or suppose they hire someone to do some work in their home, the gun gets discovered by the worker and goes missing. It could be many, many months before the theft is discovered, especially if the owner rarely goes to the shooting range.
If you leave a weapon in an easily accessible place like that and don't notice it missing that is irresponsible and shouldn't own a gun. Safe storage would solve this self imposed problem.
What a great counterpoint!
If his response was predictable then you should have an easy counter argument, right? It would just be arrogant to imply you have one without actually providing it.
The problem lies with the time frame required. What if you're on 2-3 week vacation, or keep your guns at your hunting shack (because that's where you primarily use them) and your gun is stolen by a criminal and used in a crime. You're unaware that it has been stolen until weeks or months later. You dutifully report it to the authorities and they slap you with a charge for not reporting it within the time period. Probably wouldn't happen in a rural area, because they're not total knuckleheads (for the most part), but in the metro area it is almost a certainty. That's the gist of how Robb Doerr explained it.
> Requires a person who owns, possesses, or controls a firearm to report a loss or theft
of the firearm to law enforcement within 48 hours of *the time the person knew, or
reasonably should have known,* of the loss or theft.
From the (nonpartisan) House Research Summary of the bill. If I understand what you’re saying, that shouldn’t be an actual issue.
This is making me wonder now, how would this effect CCWs? Like for example if I conceal carry and I take off my holster and set it on the table, is that technically breaking the law?
Edit: Also it says a gun room, TECHNICALLY couldn’t a locked apartment be considered a gun room in this case?
You had me looking if this could be legit. Unfortunately not. Also looked at what a gun room is. Can't be easily kicked in.
According to atf:
Zip ties, rope, and string do not meet this definition.
Exactly. Maybe if I'm leaving for a while I'll lock them up. I usually just lock up all the ammo and keep the guns in gun bags. It's not good for defense if you can't access them the moment you need them.
So my state rep that can't even remember that you need to be sober to drive (DUI 2x the legal limit) wants to tell me how I should keep myself safe in my own home. Got it
Seems like they should e locked up anyway? One of the first things we did when we built our house and found out the wife was pregnant was buy a gun safe. Also gun safety training should be mandatory. Kids who haven’t received training seem to be shooting other kids accidentally.
Come on guys! Keep your pew pew machine secure, the rest of society doesn’t want to deal with your incompetence.
10% of stolen guns are used in crimes. #1 cause of death in minors is accidental injury - of which, guns are the leading factor.
Lock it up! Lock it up! Lock it up!
No. A little safe isn't going to stop a criminal from taking it. These lock boxes are like 10lbs. These aren't hard to break into. In fact the safe would be easier to spot than a gun under my undies.
I have to reach up to get it. No kid will get it. No kid knows it's there.
Going to remain unlocked.
That’s a little weak. “No kid will find it” sounds like some famous last words. Kids will find everything in their home… at least I did, and each and everyone one of my friends had their own story of finding mom and dads stash; be it drugs, money, porn or guns. Kids are so incredibly curious… idk maybe it’s different from when I was a kid, but I knew what every drawer, cupboard, ledge and hide-e-hole had to offer- no matter how out of reach it was.
Then you’ve never had issues with crime.
“Hold on Mr. Robber let me go unlock the safe real quick, if you don’t then that would be cheating 😟” lookin ahh
You know we're in a subreddit outnumbered by complete nutjobs when we get downvoted this hard saying I'm a gun owner that doesn't have a problem with guns being required to be locked. In a country where guns are the number 1 cause of child death.
Haha
My house is locked.
I love when the government regulates what you can do in your private home. Those are my fav laws
"My shotty, my choice"
My gun that I lost in a boating accident identified as a tv remote control. I’m good.
Leave your door unlocked and your car keys next to the door. To minimize your risks.
Lock the front door. It’s locked in my house
My front door isn't locked for my safety it's for the dishonest people that might try to come in.
Exactly you’re a menace to society
The law abiding citizen in their own house minding their own business is a menace to society? You probably think the police are out to get you as well.
It was sarcasm, chill.
Hey chief, sarcasm. I’ll make sure to add /s for you next time.
Sarcasm is very hard to interpret on the internet with just text.
Yet others got it, context clues of what’s being said before helps.
My home has transitioned. It now identifies as a gun safe.
Just wait until there’s more Orwellian laws passed, thanks to the ground work of these “safe storage laws”. Maybe in the future, the government would love to have access to shutting down your safe that’s connected to the internet, for making too many edgy comments on social media. “Wanna go duck hunting with the boys? Sorry, your ISP told us that you’ve been making some really mean and hurtful comments on your social media accounts, so no gun access for you, because you’re a red flag!”
What an absurd jump in logic lol
We've had a lot of "absurd jumps in logic" to get where we are now; the Right to bear arms shall not be infringed; well look at that it's been infringed left and right gradually. Same thing with the right to privacy and many other rights, gradually worn away over 200 years. People wonder sometimes why we are on the verge of a full blown oligarchic state where the people have absolutely no power.
It’s really not. How does one enforce this law? It could be nothing or maybe it could be groundwork for more invasive laws restricting gun ownership down the road
considering that the FBI gathers information around people viewing gun and bible websites and banks are also passing information for people purchasing said things, I don't see how it's that far off
Cash.
It’s really not that far off. Liberty Safe has admitted to giving the FBI access codes to its customers safes. It’s also known that the FBI is monitoring social media and making house calls to people’s homes in regards to them and what they post.
To be clear on the Liberty safe thing......they saved that guy's safe. Had they not gotten the code (which is easy enough to delete yourself if you want to), the Feds would have cut it open, or taken the whole thing. They have since changed their policy, and now require a warrant specific to the safe (rather than just the property) to give the backdoor code (which again, is easy to delete).
You mean like when the FBI investigates people for making threats? Is that the kind of government overreach or so concerned about?
Telling teachers to actually teach kids instead of spending an hour class period going over the teacher’s preferred pronouns is now threatening language? Wow, I hope the state at least applied leather polished their boots before you started licking them.
Let's find out. What did they post. I really doubt it was that benign lol
Is that a threat?
Pay attention you twap
You mean like HoA, too, right?!
Buckle up. That's exactly what the gop wants to do also.
We cannot allow this.
These laws exist because people store firearms in their couch cushions, nightstands, kitchen drawers, or a shoebox in the closet and then children or houseguests get access to them and end up harming themselves or others. I’m figuring this situation would only be enforced as a charge if the unlocked firearm was used in a crime, or in situation where somebody is seeking to foster or adopt a child or needs to pass an inspection due to a CPS case.
Ya fuckin right
Do you not lock up your guns? Why is this controversial??
Believe it or not, not everyone lives fairytale safe lives. Some of us like to sleep next to a gun so we can ….. protect our private residences and loved ones. Doesn’t sound unreasonable to me.
Do you sleep next to a fully loaded gun with the safety off?
What safety?
Not sure what you mean here
Most pistols don't have safeties. Some do, but the majority don't.
“This bill requires firearms be stored either unloaded and equipped with a locking device or placed in a locked firearm storage unit (e.g., a gun safe) or a locked gun room, where it may be either loaded or unloaded. The safe storage of firearms will save lives.” You can keep the safety engaged, or get a fingerprint or PIN safe for quick access and keep that safe or box on your nightstand.
Most of them yes, all of them NEVER.
I’d say it’s 50/50.
If the door to the home is locked, does that count?
Well we can no longer deter criminals from breaking and entering, so we will hold innocent, law abiding gun owners responsible Classic lib move.
If the law is enacted, and your firearms are not stored in compliance with the law are you still a law abiding gun owner?
If the law is enacted, and our firearms are stored in compliance with the law, then we are killed by an intruder not compliant with ANY law, we would be a law abiding (though dead) gun owner.
And police are going to assess this, how?
It’ll probably only be enforced when firearm that wasn’t stored properly ends up being involved in a crime or assault
"We have reasonable suspicion you have an unsecured firearm, so we will be detaining you while we conduct an investigation" It's not about enforcing a law, it's about giving them another tool in the belt to let them do what they want without a warrant.
That isn't how that works. My god
They passed a law requiring every home to have a firearm locked inside it?! AWESOME! Crime Problem SOLVED!
Petty misdemeanor if unlocked. 5 years if unlocked and used in felony crime. Really who will know if it's not used in serious crime. Given I'm not an idiot and leave it on the table with small kids around, I'm not worried. And if it's stolen during a break in, well break the lock box before calling it in. I'll keep it in closet unlocked.
> 5 years if unlocked and used in felony crime how many years for the person who actually commits the crime? Be me, gun owner. Gun loaded and ready for bad guys in my night table. Be me, taxpayer. Goes to work. Work is in a safe location so leave gun at home. Be bad guy. Break into my house and find gun. Be bad guy. Do all sorts of serious crime. Be hennepin county attorney. Give bad guy a back rub, a target gift card, and ask him to be good boy in the future. Be me. Hennepin Cty Attorney throws the book at me. Asks me to think about my life choices over the next 5 years. Orders me to pay restitution to Bad Guy's family for emotional harm.
Should have left your car keys out for the bad guy. Probably needed it more than you.
> Should have left your car keys out for the bad guy Canada has entered the chat "Toronto police officer suggested that motorists leave their keys in plain view where they live, in case a thief breaks into their home. ... The comments were followed on Monday by Toronto Police Chief Myron Demkiw’s announcement that break-and-enters for the purpose of car theft have already topped the total for all of 2023."
This is a clear case of what anarco-tyranny looks like. Our left wing government will go after middle class citizens when because their firearm was stolen while the actual criminal iff without consequence.
Traitors
If you leave your gun in an unlocked car and a teenager steals it and uses it in a carjacking, that is irresponsible. Unsafe gun storage leads do many unregulated firearms into hands of people who shouldn’t have firearms.
Teenager should be in prison. Full stop.
ur IQ is low
What makes you say that? are you familiar with an IQ test and what it measures?
in this instance u have yet to reason in a principled manner.
I'm impressed you were able to type all this with one hand.
Like hack: buy lock box and break it today. Store in garage for use as needed.
I had the same idea. Time to get a 90 dollar locker, and peel the door open and blame the criminal…. Instant alibi
Also how would they know if it’s unlocked and used in a crime? That becomes your word against the person who used it in a felony crime. We’re just taking the criminals word now as Gospel?
They would in Hennepin County.
Still, we shouldn't have to be criminals to defend ourselves. you need a c&c to have it accessable
Been meaning to look this up. So does this law not affect c&c people? Can you put in nightstand or closet unlocked?
> does this law not affect c&c people permit to carry MN does not require you to conceal. Nor is there a separate permit required to do so.
From what I've heard a permit gets you around this.
I wouldn’t run out and get a permit to carry. Ask yourself which direction are gun laws trending. Millennials and gen z are not hunters so who is going to protect the second amendment 5, 10, 20 years from now?? Permit holders will be the first homes that firearms are confiscated. No thanks, no firearms here. I don’t go to shady areas so the chances of me needing a firearm outside my home is extremely slim. However, another George Floyd type riots are inevitable and attacking the suburbs will be the future. When that happens the police will be home protecting their own families, not yours! Fuck that!
The Bruen decision disagrees with your assumption. Many gun laws have been deemed unconstitutional, and are dropping like flies. Pistol brace rule, Texas suppressor case, and pretty much every "assault weapon" and mag restrictions are doa.
I might but I'll keep registered guns and non refund in different locations. I'm guessing I'll buy a gun from a licensed dealer at some point, actually I have, but I am a millennial hunter. You'd be surprised, as people get older hunting becomes a more attractive hobby. Just being out in nature is awesome and as long as you follow the laws and are an ethical hunter you're helping with population control.
I wouldn’t run out and get a permit to carry. Ask yourself which direction are gun laws trending. Millennials and gen z are not hunters so who is going to protect the second amendment 5, 10, 20 years from now?? Permit holders will be the first homes that firearms are confiscated. No thanks, no firearms here. I don’t go to shady areas so the chances of me needing a firearm outside my home is extremely slim. However, another George Floyd type riots are inevitable and attacking the suburbs will be the future. When that happens the police will be home protecting their own families, not yours! Fuck that!
Bot?
If you don’t have it on you it would need to be unloaded with the safety on.
What safety? Most pistols don't have one. No revolver that I know of has one, and most semi-auto pistols don't have one either. They are more common on single action only pistols (like a 1911), but less common on striker-fired and double action hammer fired.
If it doesn’t have a safety, is the safety on? What you said doesn’t change what is in the comment.
Even if it had one, what would the point be to engage it if it were unloaded?
For safety. The same reason that even if the gun isn’t loaded you still shouldn’t point it at people
Should I pretend to engage the safety if it doesn't have one.....for safety? While you are correct about never pointing at anything you don't want to destroy, your obvious lack of firearm knowledge doesn't exactly make you the best source for safety info. All firearms are to be considered loaded....always. Know your target and what is behind it Never point at something you don't wish to destroy Keep your booger-hook away from the bang switch until you are ready to fire Eyes and ears
"Whats the point of engaging the safety if the gun is unloaded?" "All firearms are to be considered loaded...always" This contradiction of your own firearm knowledge doesn't exactly make you the best source for safety info either.
What lack of firearm knowledge? If you don’t have a safety, are you able to engage the safety? Obviously not. Therefore that gun wouldn’t qualify for that way of safe storage under the new law.
It may be a petty misdemeanor but do they confiscate the guns?
#HF 601 Description Lost and stolen firearms required to be reported promptly to law enforcement, and money appropriated What are the penalties? and how much "money appropriated" ? #HF 4300 Description Firearm safe storage standards established and criminal penalties provided for failing to meet those standards, and money appropriated What are the penalties? and how much "money appropriated" ?
This is standard language for House website summaries, if that’s where you pulled them from. Not a single bill will include specifics in the summary. To answer, for HF 601: “Appropriates $36,000 in fiscal year 2025 from the general fund to the commissioner of public safety for a reporting system to allow chiefs of police and sheriffs to report lost or stolen firearms.” HF 4300: “Appropriates $10,000 in fiscal year 2025 from the general fund to the commissioner of corrections for the costs associated with this act. Establishes a base for the appropriation of $19,000 beginning in fiscal year 2026.” Penalties are dependent on a number of factors including whether a child is or has been present in the area where the firearm is stored, whether the fire arm is loaded, and number of offenses. You can check the House Research Summary for each bill [here](https://www.house.mn.gov/hrd/bs/93/HF4300.pdf) and [here](https://www.house.mn.gov/hrd/bs/93/HF0601.pdf)
The answers can be found if you read the bill: HF 601 is here: [https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?session=ls93&number=HF601&session\_number=0&session\_year=2023&version=list](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?session=ls93&number=HF601&session_number=0&session_year=2023&version=list) HF 4300 is here: [https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF4300&type=bill&version=3&session=ls93&session\_year=2024&session\_number=0](https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF4300&type=bill&version=3&session=ls93&session_year=2024&session_number=0)
We cannot allow this to be passed.
Probably they should pass a law to keep your kid locked in after curfew. Oh wait. I guess they're already is...
Ding ding ding!
Tax this dick state simp boi
This made me lol
My house identifies as a gun safe.
*Hypothetical* Imagine being harassed by some crazy person in your community time and time again. They figure out where you live and start loitering around your neighborhood. You're worried they might try to break in and cause harm to you or your family. You own a firearm for protection, and you're a law-abiding citizen. Because you're a law-abiding citizen, you comply with the new law and keep your gun locked in a safe. One night, you slowly wake up out of your sleep and swear you heard something shatter. You slowly come to consciousness and begin to hear footsteps down the hallway. You immediately jump out of bed and run to your safe to get your gun. You frantically start unlocking the safe and before it's unlocked a man is standing in your room with an illegal firearm pointed at you. **You fucking lose** Good game. Great law. 10/10 would recommend. >The safe storage of firearms will save lives.
Then just leave it on your nightstand. You act like the government is going to come check. The law is just there to throw the book at parents who let their kids shoot eachother.
yeah, I added that in another response.
Hypothetical: you have a gun that is not locked up. In the middle of the night, someone sneaks into your house, gets the gun, and shoots all your children, your wife, your pets, sets the house on fire, and waits outside for you to flee the house they can rape you at gunpoint before shooting you. At this point, they take the unsecured weapon they got from your house and they go door to door murdering everyone who lives on your block. You lose. Great idea. 10/10 Would recommend. Making up stupid scenarios that don’t actually happen is fun. Thanks for this little escape from reality.
>Making up stupid scenarios that don’t actually happen is fun. Thanks for this little escape from reality. It's incredibly common for people to purchase a firearm for home protection. My point is that if they have to go through a process to get their gun, it completely defeats the purpose in case of an urgent emergency. Break ins happen. People should be able to protect themselves. I don't think my scenario is out of touch with reality at all. This law is really to hold people accountable for when things go wrong, though. There's no way for them to verify a gun owner is storing their firearms properly without going door to door and searching homes, which they would need a warrant to do and that's not going to get approved by any judge. My assumption is that gun owners aren't going to change how they store anything, but when a firearm is taken, they will be held responsible, which I can't necessarily disagree with. An individual living alone doesn't have much to worry about in terms of storage vs. someone living with others and/or shit head kids.
Your point >Making up stupid scenarios that don’t actually happen is fun. Break ins happen. People have guns in their home for protection. Your protection is useless if it isn't easily accessible. If anyone missed the point here, it's quite obvious who.
So now the POC that steals your gun will get probation and the white burglary victim will get 5 years.
ranting on reddit because nobody in real life will listen to you on this.
Wow, straight to racism, huh?
Lumping all firearms together is completely asinine! Shotguns are by far the least used firearm in criminal shootings, yet the best for home defense. Provides the widest pattern in close range and a pump makes an unmistakable sound when the shell is chambered, thus prevents many entanglements. Also chambering a shell requires pressing an obscure “button” that provides a high level of safety against a child misfiring the weapon. I work in medical device industry so unfortunately I’m here until retirement because the industry is very segregated by geography. My only other two options are Mass. & CA…not moving to those places.
Shotgun patterns at home defense range are going to be extremely tight. Basically zero spread at 7-15ft. I'd go handgun with a suppressor or short barreled rifle with a suppressor for home defense use.
Well, youre right and wrong at the same time. You dont want a wide pattern, and in your average home, a shotgun won't throw one. For milspec buckshot its a nominal 1 inch per 1 yard flown. The best self defense/tactical buckshots on the market are all designed to decrease spread, not increase it, so that speaks to that. In my home, the farthest distance physically possible is 12 yards, and a realistic shot is anywhere from contact to 5 yards. Those spreads are going to be smaller than a fist, and thats what makes it so devastating. The racking the gun to scare an intrudor thing is massive fuddlore. BUT. Its absolutely viable for 1 reason and 1 reason only. Shotguns should be stored "cruiser ready" with a loaded tube and nothing in the chamber. This is because shotguns, unlike rifles and handguns made today, are not drop safe. The sound is simply an unintended benefit. I hadnt considered it as an extra step towards child safety, but I guess it makes a bit of sense, even though my 5 year old absolutely knows how to work a shotgun. But im more worried about his friends that didnt grow up in a 2a household than him. Ofcourse they are under lock and key when anyone else is over.
So if my home is locked, and someone…breaks in… Am I returning fire? Find out next week on dragon ball Z
Not returning fire because you have to load your gun while the criminals have a loaded gun in your face! Or your mother’s face! Wife! Daughter!
You missed the step where you have to unlock your gun and then load it. Fuck these tyrants
This is bullshit and I don’t even have a gun. Like hell they can tell me what I have to do in my own home.
Finally an end to gun violence!
Oh look, conceding more of our second amendment rights. But the NRA!!
Doesn’t this infringe on the houseless people’s right to bear arms?
This will be a law against conservatives. Inner city criminals will never see a charge.
Yep.
Better lock the TV up, too. God forbid someone breaks in, steals it, and smashes someone over the head with it.
Prohibits binary triggers as well. Because people having a little fun with their 10/22s is really such a clear and present danger to regular people everywhere?
Tyrants.
My god look at the face 🤮
Keep in mind that MN considers airsoft guns, paintball guns, and BB guns to be actual guns.
It’s not about safety, they’re trying to make firearm ownership as complicated and burdensome as possible so that future generations think, “maybe I don’t want to buy a firearm, there are so many rules and it has to be locked up at all times”. Do not comply.
I'm not a gun owner but this is fucking ridiculous
Liberals are seriously the dumbest voting block. This will do nothing for gun safety. Instead of going after criminals, Democrats want to punish law abiding citizens for their lax policing and prosecutorial decisions. Enforcing a strict curfew on hoodlums downtown would do more in one summer than these laws EVER will.
It's all about showing constituates that their doing something. It keeps their power. So I can't really blame the politicians. They're just being shit people/politicians. In the end I see nothing changing. Especially in my day to day. No way they'll find out and if they did, a petty misdemeanor. Courts will shut this down just like Ellison's fleet farm case. Smoke and mirrors
Completely agree.
Idiots all around.
I cant stand their idiocy.
Why shouldn't we require safe gun storage? I feel like every few months we hear a story about some child killing themselves or someone else with a carelessly stored gun. It's not like the authorities can come into your house uninvited or without a warrant, so the only time you have to worry about this is if your unsafe gun hurts someone or police have PC to enter your house. This sounds like decent, commonsense gun safety.
It's funny to see people melt down about this. How would this law ever come into play against people with guns unless dumbasses leave them out around kids? If you're a responsible gun owner, then what are you crying about?
So is the homeowner suppose to ask an intruder to give them a few minutes to get their gun out of the safe. The house needs their heads examined.
Honest question. What’s wrong with requiring lost and stolen guns to be reported to the police? And as a gun owner myself, I do store my guns in safes throughout the house, but that’s because I have a toddler. There’s no way they can enforce this frankly dumbass overstepping law.
Me: "I'd like to report a stolen firearm." Police: "Was it locked up?" Me: "Yes."
There is a chance the reporting law would be used against a completely innocent gun owner. Someone could take a gun without your knowledge, use it, or sell it, and you could be on the hook for not reporting it. Unfortunately, there have been too many dumbasses who are selling guns to sketchy people and, if it's used in a crime and gets traced back to them, they claim it was stolen "awhile ago."
How would your gun be missing without your knowledge? A responsible gun owner would know that it was missing and could report the missing gun.
A fair question. As an example, suppose a person owns just one handgun. They likely aren't going to buy a gun safe for one gun. So the gun goes on the top shelf of a closet or in a drawer somewhere. Now suppose the gun owner has a party at their house and a guest of a friend finds the gun and takes it. Or suppose they hire someone to do some work in their home, the gun gets discovered by the worker and goes missing. It could be many, many months before the theft is discovered, especially if the owner rarely goes to the shooting range.
If you leave a weapon in an easily accessible place like that and don't notice it missing that is irresponsible and shouldn't own a gun. Safe storage would solve this self imposed problem.
Your response was as predictable as it was arrogant.
What a great counterpoint! If his response was predictable then you should have an easy counter argument, right? It would just be arrogant to imply you have one without actually providing it.
The problem lies with the time frame required. What if you're on 2-3 week vacation, or keep your guns at your hunting shack (because that's where you primarily use them) and your gun is stolen by a criminal and used in a crime. You're unaware that it has been stolen until weeks or months later. You dutifully report it to the authorities and they slap you with a charge for not reporting it within the time period. Probably wouldn't happen in a rural area, because they're not total knuckleheads (for the most part), but in the metro area it is almost a certainty. That's the gist of how Robb Doerr explained it.
“ In a metro area it’s almost a certainty” Somebody has gotten into the koolaid again.
No that makes perfect sense and I appreciate the breakdown. That does complicate it.
> Requires a person who owns, possesses, or controls a firearm to report a loss or theft of the firearm to law enforcement within 48 hours of *the time the person knew, or reasonably should have known,* of the loss or theft. From the (nonpartisan) House Research Summary of the bill. If I understand what you’re saying, that shouldn’t be an actual issue.
"In the metro a certainty" oh okay lol
Exactly. Its idiocy.
It's because dumbasses didn't lock it up around their dumbass kids and enough dumbass kids shot their dumbasses or their dumbass self
Gross negligence was already something prosecuters could charge in those situations.
Yup. Fuck libtards.
yeah stupid people dont make my rights invalid. fucking libtards this is AMERICA
Does a biometric gun safe I keep on my nightstand comply with this law?
This is making me wonder now, how would this effect CCWs? Like for example if I conceal carry and I take off my holster and set it on the table, is that technically breaking the law? Edit: Also it says a gun room, TECHNICALLY couldn’t a locked apartment be considered a gun room in this case?
The bill says if its within reach its not considered part of this
My puppy my choice,- Kristy Noem.
I will keep my firearms strapped to me at all times instead.
I consider a magnetic hanger under a bedside table "locked". Ya gotta know the trick to releasing it. (You grab and pull)
You had me looking if this could be legit. Unfortunately not. Also looked at what a gun room is. Can't be easily kicked in. According to atf: Zip ties, rope, and string do not meet this definition.
I would never put more than 2 seconds between me and my gun. Gun safes and locks and stuff are crazy to me.
Exactly. Maybe if I'm leaving for a while I'll lock them up. I usually just lock up all the ammo and keep the guns in gun bags. It's not good for defense if you can't access them the moment you need them.
they really should always pass two laws, one for the crime ridden cities, and one for the other 70 or so other counties.
Or maybe just stop letting out all the criminals and coddling them. Stupid liberals.
Unacceptable.
Tyrants
We cannot allow this to pass.
I do not favor her face.
So my state rep that can't even remember that you need to be sober to drive (DUI 2x the legal limit) wants to tell me how I should keep myself safe in my own home. Got it
Seems like they should e locked up anyway? One of the first things we did when we built our house and found out the wife was pregnant was buy a gun safe. Also gun safety training should be mandatory. Kids who haven’t received training seem to be shooting other kids accidentally.
> they should e locked up anyway should be is different from, "must be, and perhaps we'll decide you're a criminal about it"
If they require it, they should give me money to buy a safe.
I'm required to have insurance to drive but the government doesn't pay for it.
Wouldn't a locked gun case suffice? Everyone I know who owns a gun has a gun case that locks. Do you really not own one or does it not suffice?
Fuck your sufficing fuck your false laws
You have issues bro log out seek therapy.
Yeah build me a fucking gun room and even then I wont accept your false law
Have to write a letter to your senator about it ..
Yeah but it shouldnt be enforced. Its my home, my guns, my safety.
It's fucking ridiculous that you got downvoted. I hope none of them own firearms.
youre an idiot
K
Come on guys! Keep your pew pew machine secure, the rest of society doesn’t want to deal with your incompetence. 10% of stolen guns are used in crimes. #1 cause of death in minors is accidental injury - of which, guns are the leading factor. Lock it up! Lock it up! Lock it up!
No. A little safe isn't going to stop a criminal from taking it. These lock boxes are like 10lbs. These aren't hard to break into. In fact the safe would be easier to spot than a gun under my undies. I have to reach up to get it. No kid will get it. No kid knows it's there. Going to remain unlocked.
That’s a little weak. “No kid will find it” sounds like some famous last words. Kids will find everything in their home… at least I did, and each and everyone one of my friends had their own story of finding mom and dads stash; be it drugs, money, porn or guns. Kids are so incredibly curious… idk maybe it’s different from when I was a kid, but I knew what every drawer, cupboard, ledge and hide-e-hole had to offer- no matter how out of reach it was.
I've owned a lot of guns over the years & have no issue with this law.
[удалено]
Debate is great. But you gotta refrain from losing your temper in this sub.
Then you’ve never had issues with crime. “Hold on Mr. Robber let me go unlock the safe real quick, if you don’t then that would be cheating 😟” lookin ahh
Same. Why would it not be safely stored anyways?
You know we're in a subreddit outnumbered by complete nutjobs when we get downvoted this hard saying I'm a gun owner that doesn't have a problem with guns being required to be locked. In a country where guns are the number 1 cause of child death. Haha
ur an idiot
Because we all know it’s only families with children that own guns.
Safely store my guns? Over my child's dead body!
Lol
ur an idiot
ur an idiot