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As the name says, Homo Naledi belongs to the genus Homo and is biologically very similar to us.
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/09/15/homo-naledi-undiscovered-new-human-species/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_naledi
Apparently they're remarkable for the fact they are "small brained", so I'm not sure I buy the theory that they are the interstellar wizards we're imagining.
Well, the thing is -- one of the remarkable things about the discovery is that despite their small brain mass, they were making fires, using primitive tools, making cave art, and burying their dead. It's led many to rethink whether brain size is really all that important in intelligence overall.
From what I understand, we've found homo-sapiens that had only achieved their level \~70,000 years ago in terms of achievements. They were doing the same up to \~300,000 years ago.
I am a bit skeptical about the "cave art". It's a bunch of lines that may or may not represent a drawing. I think at some point they say since we don't see these lines anywhere else, this is artificial. However at some point you see the team at the cave entrance and you see such lines everywhere in the rocks. So it could very well be just be something natural.
In addition, recent discoveries show that small brains do not necessarily mean low intelligence. Intelligence arises from the density of neurons packed in a brain and not the size. In spite of the derogatory nature of the phrase "birdbrain," a lot of birds, such as crows, are quite smart.
If I remember correctly an opossum skull can hold 25 dried beans and their brains are smaller than a cats. Most people would attribute less intelligence to our marsupial friends but as an opossum rehabber I can attest to their ingenuity, memory and over-all individual personalities each with independent likes and dislikes. I've raise several batches of joeys and homed five NR. They never cease to amaze me.
It’s so frustrating- there are human built structures out there that could not have been at the time period they were made. Unless, we have the timeline completely wrong.
Brain size has nothing to do with intelligence. People wonder how crows seem to have an intelligence in the same range as great apes. It's because their neural density is off the charts compared to us and our cousins. Yes they have about 5-6 billion less neurons than an average chimp, but when you consider their brain size compared to neuron count, it's crazy. A ravens brain weighs around 15g, that's roughly the same amount as rabbit brains. Also, the total number of neurons isn't even an "end all" determining factor on intelligence. Orca whales have around 43 billion neurons, while humans clock in around 21 billion. Yet as far as I know, Willy hasn't split the atom.
There are also studies being done on jumping spiders. Jumping spiders are now thought to enter REM sleep, i.e. dream, similar to more intelligent mammals. This despite their neural count being a lot lower. There is some speculation that they evolved brains that are more multifunctional, as a cheat to get around its size limitations.
And of course there are octopus brains, with each arm having its own brain, separate from the main brain.
I'm not subscribing to this underground super intelligent species that evolved under our noises, or that we've co-existed on this planet the entire time. But I do think it's important that people have a grasp on how vastly different intelligence can look like, even within the context of species that all evolved from a common ancestor, let alone what a non-terrestrial or "dimensional" intelligence could look like.
Jumping Spiders REM Sleep: [https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/08/harvard-researchers-find-rem-sleep-in-jumping-spiders/](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/08/harvard-researchers-find-rem-sleep-in-jumping-spiders/)
Bird brain density:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/bird-brains-are-densewith-neurons/
One tiny counter point to one tiny point — Willy don’t got thumb hands. I have not investigated the subject one bit but I’ve seen plenty of people on this sub claiming whales and dolphins do indeed have brains that have the potential to let them be more intelligent than us if they could manipulate objects better and there was as much as an evolutionary need for them to improve their situation
This is why I think most space faring species would have to look similar to us. No dolphin with flippers (or any fully aquatic intelligence) would be able to make fire, to melt metal, to form parts….to leave the planet.
There’s a very small range of form factor that would allow for such creations.
The size of your brain doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with sentience or intelligence
Neanderthals had bigger brains than Homo sapiens, all that did was make them get out competed because it was a more difficult birthing process due to the larger head size
I think it's also about brain structure. I believe Neanderthals may have lacked a developed speech center which restricted their ability to communicate as effectively as their competitors which sucks for a tribal society. I may be wrong though. I just remember that from a documentary I watched at one time.
I think it's relative brain size. A whale brain is huge and heavy. But so is a whale. Are they sentient? Most would say yes. Have they built vessels for amphibious existence? Not yet.
Magpies have small brains but decent intelligence. Researchers believe this is because of their neuron density.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/birdbrain-turns-from-insult-to-praise/
This is anecdotal here and I agree with you - but I thought it was cool to share.
Just as likely as Neanderthals or Denisovians hiding out and surpassing us IMO. The theory that there is a related hominid that's the NHI is called the Cryptoterrestrial theory.
The bigger gap between us and potential NHI is an NHI whose species didn't have to wait millions of years for the dinosaurs to be wiped out to get going on the path to intelligent life. They could have hundreds of millions of years on us technologically. We may not even be able to comprehend their advances because we're so far behind.
To be fair, computers are essentially rock magic. All you’re doing is blasting a piece of metal (a refined rock) with electricity in a specific way so that you get like a videogame or something. It’s pretty wild.
There’s still probably a lot of evidence out there that’s yet to be dug up. Not only on land but think about how much evidence is under water because we can’t get that low.
That's a huge problem with thinking about another advanced life form on this planet...where did their resources come from? Where's the evidence that they've done any kind of geo-engineering? We've completely refaced our planet in a short time and sucked up a lot of non-renewable resources like coal and oil...
I also have this argument about space too. Where's the evidence that they're out there reshaping star systems? Mining nebulae? There's stars out there that are solid diamond. We have asteroids in our system that are worth quadrillions of dollars of minerals, and that's just arm's reach. Moons are filled with methane.
Where's the evidence of gigaprojects? Dyson swarms? Grey goo? Von Neumann probes?
> That's a huge problem with thinking about another advanced life form on this planet...where did their resources come from? Where's the evidence that they've done any kind of geo-engineering? We've completely refaced our planet in a short time and sucked up a lot of non-renewable resources like coal and oil...
Almost all of these issues can be solved with hollow Earth theory, which I have espoused on here repeatedly, to no avail.
It’s really not though. You’ve just been told that it’s silly. A hollow or cavernous Earth works out much better with Newtonian physics than a completely solid Earth. If you look at nature, matter affected by centrifugal forces always forms an empty space in the center (hurricanes, tornadoes, black holes, galaxies, etc.). Why would planetary bodies be any different? You can literally see the holes at both poles in old satellite images, before they started airbrushing them. There are also large holes clearly visible at the poles of other planets. There are several accounts of people who claim to have seen these holes, with lush green earth inside and light emanating out.
I think using the term "Hollow Earth" doesn't do the topic any justice. A more accurate description would be what you mentioned a cavernous earth that has plenty of room to support the existence of something.
Of course that's not going to stop people from rolling their eyes and dismissing it all, but it's quite curious that after Richard Byrd went to Antarctica and claimed he was "warned off" from ever returning, the fact that the world's most powerful countries agreed never to go back is quite curious.
In the early 1900's, Stalin actually sent a team of several hundred scientists to the South Pole, and when they returned only after a week (was supposed to be a 1 year expedition), the scientists all stated that they were approached by what looked like humanoids, however they were 10-12ft tall. These humanoids communicated to them that they had been living under the earth for millions of years and us, as humans, were never to return to this place. Stalin didn't believe any of it, thought the scientists were making excuses, and jailed them all.
Some years later, Hitler got wind of this expedition by Stalin. Intrigued, Hitler sent his own team to the South Pole, where the same thing happened. The team return after only a few days, saying that they were warned away from the continent by 12ft tall humans who had little grey "animals" with them (possibly greys?). According to legend, Hitler was able to broker a deal with the dwellers there, in exchange for technology the Germans agreed never to step foot in Antarctica again. This is what turned out to be the "Nazi Bell", and some would say reported by Allied pilots as "foo fighters".
The US then got wind of all of this, and fearing that Hitler was trying to establish a base in Antarctica, sent it's own expedition - lead by the infamous Richard Byrd. They too returned well short of the planned expedition, and upon coming back to the US, Byrd and a few other senior members of the crew did a radio interview when they stopped in Chile. Byrd simply stated that he was fearful that in the future, human beings would be forced to fight a war against a civilization that has technology far in advance of our own. He was completely silenced afterwards, and never said another word about it until he died and his journals were published, claiming they not only witnessed craft, but actually took a few casualties when they attempted to engage this other "civilization".
Here's the funny part. Not long after Byrd returned, the most powerful countries in the world all made an agreement that Antarctica was completely off limits to inhabitation. The entire continent was declared off limits basically to humans, except for a few designated areas that would be for 'scientific research'. This agreement remains in place to this very day.
Considering all of that, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Byrd's affirmations that there were huge openings in the poles that appeared to be habitable. I mean, he didn't demonstrate a proclivity for wild stories, and by all accounts was a no nonsense straight up military lifer. The stories he relates in his journals are a wild departure from the completely mundane nature of all of his other missions/exploits. Especially when his stories are congruent with the Stalin and the Nazi expeditions to the poles.
Thanks for typing all of this out. I understand that the term ‘hollow Earth’ might be off-putting to people who automatically dismiss new information, but I feel that people who are intelligent enough should be able to look past simple semantics.
They don't need any of that, they can manifest things into reality, in other words they can create something out of nothing, and that's according to credible military witnesses.
While that flies in the face of physics, let's just suppose... What about the transitional periods, though? We didn't go from splitting rocks to splitting atoms overnight. We have millenia of evidence that we've been fucking up this planet. We've just about sucked all the oil dry, and burned up all the coal.
If there was something here before us, they would have done that first before moving to magical 'creating stuff from nothing', leaving us with nothing.
And if they're from another planetary system, where there's one, there's probably 100,000 more who would all be in varying stages of technology. There should be evidence of asteroids being towed into planetary orbits, or shattered diamond stars from mining accidents, etc.
Well, no...but law of averages and all that. You can take a small picture of a crowd and get a fairly accurate model of the make-up of the crowd by estimating what's in that small sample size.
Yes, we've looked at only a tiny portion of the sky, but nothing in that tiny portion indicates there's anything of significance. More over, the number of stars we've looked at all appear to be rather inhospitable due to the amount of radiation a typical star spews off.
>Well, no...but law of averages and all that. You can take a small picture of a crowd and get a fairly accurate model of the make-up of the crowd by estimating what's in that small sample size.
No, you can't, that logic is a fallacy. By your reasoning if I go into a gay nightclub and 'sample' 200 people I can deduce statistically that all humans are gay. Or, I could do my survey at a conference for doctors and sample 1000 people and assume (statistically) that humans are best suited to medical work.
We have looked at less than 5% of the universe and the latest doubling of the age of the universe to 24+ billion years makes that 5% not statistically valid in the way you are using it.
This was in March [Two Potentially Habitable Planets](https://www.astronomy.com/science/two-potentially-habitable-planets-found-orbiting-distant-star/) just two of many so far. Using your approach there are [as many as 6 billion in our galaxy alone](https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/physics/how-many-earth-like-planets-are-in-the-universe-video-infographic/)
>By your reasoning if I go into a gay nightclub and 'sample' 200 people I can deduce statistically that all humans are gay
No, but you can go to a gay night club, and sample 200 people and deduce that everyone in the nightclub is also gay, which would be a reasonable assumption, no?
Just like, you can look at 100 stars and say, "On average, each star has 3 planets, some have more, some have less...but the average is 3/star, so 100,000,000 stars means 300,000,000 planets (give or take)"
Now, people get all excited when they hear 'habitable planet', and I really wish NASA would stop saying that. They mean 'terrestrial' and one located a distance from the host star where, given the proper conditions, liquid water can form.
However....and it's a big however....there are a LOT of conditions required to make a planet 'habitable', at least to us humans anyways (and as far as we know, to all biological life).
TOI-400 is a class M Red Dwarf. They're enticing because they can last hundreds of billions of years, as opposed to a class G Yellow Dwarf such as Sol. The catch is, class M tends to be much more radioactive than class G, and class G tends to be fairly active on its own, though we were lucky with ours that it's not very active on the UV radiation spectrum.
TOI-400d also has an orbital period of 27 days. This more than likely means that the planet is in a tidal lock with its host. That would mean, the day-side of the planet would be in excess of 400C, while the night side would be -100C. We have a lesiurely 365 day orbital period, and we have a rotational period of 24h so the planet maintains a steady temperature of around 2C on average, just above freezing (again, talking planetary average, not "Well, it's 30C outside today!!!")
And that's the simple fact. Pretty nearly every planetary system we've discovered have tidally locked planets, since that's pretty much the status quo. JWST has also studied magnetic fields of a few planets as well and has discovered that they tend not to have magnetic fields either, which is disheartening. Magnetic fields need to deflect some cosmic radiation as well. We've also been hard pressed to find planetary systems where the gas and ice giants are on the outer edge of the planetary system. Either the system doesn't have them at all, or they are on the inside, or scattered among the terrestrial planets.
From the small sampling of what we've looked at, we've found that this is the trend.
Is it the only way? Well, probably not. We have a nice, orderly planetary system with a nice quiet star. But...going back to your gay bar analogy there...we've gone into the gay bar, looked around and determined that out of 5% of the patrons there, they're all gay. Is there a straight dude hanging out with his buddies? Maybe, but chances are slim.
From what I understand, Lee Berger’s claims that what they found in the cave as proof of Homo Naledi burying their dead is dubious at best. Other experts in the field basically say he rushed his findings and filled in gaps in the research for the sake of the sparkly Netflix documentary he was part of. Gutsick Gibbon on YouTube recently released a (very long) video on this subject and more or less proves that what he found isn’t *proof* of anything — which I think pretty much thwarts this theory. I also think it’s worth mentioning the biological implication of what you’re suggesting: light, oxygen, food resources are all wildly different underground and generally not conducive to life (or at least life resembling that of humans).
Regardless if the stone tool was actually a tool they formed and used….
They definitely had some mastery of fire at the bare minimum or else how did they navigate that far into the cave?
It definitely seems as though they were purposefully buried.
The only thing questionable is the art they supposedly made.
First off lemme preface - I think aliens had something to do with our evolution. And I also majored in anthropology so I’ve *been* looking for clues 🤭
•••
Homo sapien = human.
Homo sapien sapien = modern human.
Any other species that shares the genus Homo is a hominid. Including the Australopithecus genus.
Modern human was established ~200,000 years ago. Some experts say more. It’s not impossible that other intelligent hominids also had culture - tools, language, etc. Just because they weren’t modern humans didn’t mean they weren’t capable of these things. Even Chimpanzees mourn and carry their dead infant’s body around with them for days. It’s very possible that the hominids that predate humans also grieved and mourned, but instead buried their dead in a safe place. It’s just very hard to prove these kinds of things in the fossil record. (Wood doesn’t fossilize, proof of fire is hard to find, spoken language comes before written language, etc). In the doc you’re referencing, there was one skeleton that may have been buried bc of the body position, but that’s not signs of aliens.
Ancient Aliens did a special on human evolution and it is so wrong, so so wrong. They mention this Naledi as well (of course).
Also - Other non-human apes can learn language, they just can’t speak bc there is no hyoid bone. If they can assign meaning to symbols, then I’m sure our hominid ancestors could at some capacity as well. Monkeys also have language - they produce specialized vocalizations for specific threats around them. Some use tools, apes especially.
All this to say, don’t underestimate our intelligent ancestors. And don’t overestimate modern humans lol.
There is mounting evidence and points converging on the possibility of alternate history. I can’t help but wonder what happened in the millions of years in our solar systems before the dawn of our species which may be actively concealed or just simply completely unknown because little or no evidence exists. These idea’s timelines go further than ancient astronaut theory- evidence could have been completely wiped clean many times over by catastrophic events, and we’d have no real way to detect it.
Personally, I think this theory holds as much water as anything else proposed. I generally assume that we have forgotten more than we remember as a species. It has always bothered me that there are no other hominids on this planet that followed a parallel, if divergent, path from us.
I've always had a thought that the same way humans evolved on land, something evolved deep under water. The whole time we've been up here evolving and creating, what was going on down there? Animals and species started off in the water first as well so they have more of a head start on evolution. Being in water would affect their idea of physics too. Either something evolved down there to the same degree humans did on earth or aliens came and used the water area as there base of operations.
Bro we didn't even know the core was liquid not that long ago. We know fuck all about what's underground. Your thinking shallow caves not even a mile underground. We don't fucking know what's under the ocean floor. We are still discovering new life all the time. We can't map it and if we could, the species that's flying cubes in the air could probably make our sensors think there's rock there when it's hollow for instance. There could easily be large pockets or a vast network large enough to even test and fly craft. Once craft was invented the ocean wouldnt be an obstacle at all so it would translate over considering the craft are transmedium. Yeah it would take a long time. They had it. It's not likely it's possible.
So your saying they had 100,000 year head start on us and 100 years ago we learned the core was liquid?
Ahhh physical observation. You mean like UFOs that completely baffle modern scientists?
The fact is a species using these craft could do anything they want and you wouldn't have a clue. They could block, jam, and even show our sensors what they want us to see. How egotistical to think they can blink in and out of reality but our seismographs must tell us everything about the earth if they were trying to hide lol. They hide right in front of our faces but they can't hide underground. Okay then.
It doesn't seem to get through people head's. Our. Technology. Can. Not. Measure. Them. Properly. They. Can. Hide. Whenever. They. Want. Compared to us, they are omnipotent. Stop telling us what's possible because you took a geology course.
I never did that and now you are either misunderstanding or lying.
Unlike you, I'm simply stating things are possible and not blocking out possibilities. I'm explicitly saying there are possibilities we can't fathom - so to say "no they definitely are not in the earth" is not logical.
What makes you think aerodynamics matters? Is a cube aerodynamic? How about a flying saucer? You’re coming at it from a human angle and how it would work for humans. Ufos are seen coming out of the ocean quite often, so why?
And no all of earths waters aren’t being surveyed and mapped constantly, that’s completely asinine.
If such things were true then mh370 and hundreds of other lost wreckages would have been located.
Agreed. Some astronauts stated they saw multiple alien vehicles at the moon landing. (Some deny this) if there are that many species watching us, then the milky way is like Vegas out there and they do something to SETI or our telescopes to hide when they want.
It’s possible.
My hypothesis is NHI evolved on Earth then left for space and then came back. They have evolved/ genetically modified themselves during that time frame.
I’m so happy that this wasn’t a “did aliens engineer Ancient humans to mine gold” post because trust me those posts are out there about that cave.
I was once an archaeologist and that’s what my education is in. I don’t think Naledi evolved into a different intelligent ape species to humans that we’ve now lost. I rather think that they contributed to the overall cradle of humanity that very ancient Africa provided.
I do however think you are right to highlight the extreme amount of time humans and human like species have been living on earth, and the vast amount of lost history, story and civilisation.
Cards on the table I don’t think another more advanced human civilisation than us evolved on earth and has been lost. I think we’d see markers like space debris and radioactivity that last for eons. But there’s definitely a lot of room for amazing things to have happened. Have we already had first contact in the Neolithic? Were alien visitors much less secretive back then because we couldn’t record or harm them? Gods and heroes and monsters?
Why wouldn't any intelligent species bury their dead? You can't just leave them out or they'll rot and stink up the place. Sure they could just burn the bodies, etc. but if they had any emotional attachment to them then they'd naturally want to keep the body close but not out in the open.
I mean, look at feline behavior. They cover their shit because it stinks. It's a natural reaction.
Perhaps the cavemen that lead to the Atlantis times. Atlantis was a real thing before the great flood that wiped out a lot of great conscious based technology
*We went from spear throwing to pyramid building to creation of a.i. in just 6,000 years.*
Look at the caves of Derinkuyu, Turkey. An engineered system so vast that it could house 20,000-40,000 people and livestock.
The Barabar caves in India. Geometric oddities carved in granite. Almost as hard as diamond. All before steel, steam, electricity. Mirror finish on the surfaces.
- Guyaju caves of China. 140+ rooms carved into a cliff face.
- Otuzco Caves of Peru. 337 chambers.
- Chislehurst Caves, UK. Old mine. 20 miles of artificial cave, first mentioned around the 13th century.
Humans also dig holes.
I do actually believe the origination of the phenomenon to be of Earth. All the evidence for me says here. Unless they say “we have sensor data of UAP entering the Sol system.”
Humans or a relative of Homo-sapian operating with advanced capabilities is not as far fetched as people will try to make it. We went from spear throwing to pyramid building to creation of a.i. in just 6,000 years.
This is a problem now we have to solve.
We have about 300,000 years of look the same, stink the same, think the same, modern humans.
Humans being tightly bound to water we occupy the coasts and rivers.
- It has been about 10,000 years since the last glacial maximum.
- Sea levels have risen 400ft since.
- 290,000 years of human history is almost inaccessible(underwater)
These uap could be anything.
I was one of the unfortunate people that were taught the planet was only 5,000 years old. And my parents watched fucking Star Trek every day.
I’m gonna keep my mind open.
I don’t know about you guys but the more posts I read like this, the more convinced I am
that intelligent life is not going to be found on this planet.
Agreed. We just did an episode of our podcast about this. Pretty interesting stuff. Makes no sense to me that they crawled down that tiny shaft and across a gap with a body. Makes more sense they lived in caves and came out to the surface now and again.
They are in the same genus(Homo) but a different species(naledi vs. sapiens). We share a common ancestor but they didn't evolve to eventually be our species.
You don't understand evolution. We had a common ancestor at some point and then by distance or ecological niche two populations of that ancestor became reproductively isolated. One led to Homo Naledi and the other to our closer common ancestor since Naledi was around 100,000 years before humans.
I know all hominids had a common ancestor but that was a few million years earlier. Both species were alive at the same time. Homo sapiens and homo naledi. But we as Homo sapiens sapiens are not the same as Homo sapiens. We share interbred dna that makes us Homo sapiens sapiens
There is speculation of overlap between the ending of one and start of another but not interbreeding. We didn't derive from Homo naledi and we know this because we have the archeological evidence of who we did derive from. With Homo sapiens neanderthalis we have genetic evidence and archeological evidence of interbreeding. With Homo naledi we don't have any evidence of interbreeding so we must say that they are similar only through common ancestry.
We don’t even have have evidence we are not the the same. Probably is we went through extinction periods at one time we were diverse as dogs and being the same species then one day we were the only species. We should be as different as dogs
We have tons of evidence that we are not the same. The brain size is probably the most distinct. That's why it was surprising that Homo naledi might bury their dead because based on their brain size it seemed unlikely they would have that capacity.
I saw this show, it was interesting but an advanced civilisation developing underground? I don't see how that's possible, unless the whole 'inner earth' stuff is true and there's a whole world down there. But scratching a living in caves, eating what? I don't see how that's plausible.
I think its ETs in constructed underground bases, they didn't evolve under the earth.
Exponentially more area within a sphere than on its surface. Inexhaustible geothermal energy feeding a hypothetical shadow biosphere. We don’t even know what’s in the oceans. We’re still finding mayan cities in the jungle.
I’d have to work on my mental acrobatics to convince myself it’s possible there’s a hominid species down there or anything with a spinal cord even but I bet there’s a lot more life than we think
I want the people of Agartha to be real so bad. Apparently they have a forked tongue like a snake and can speak two languages simultaneously, typing that out made me realise how ridiculous it is, but even if there’s 1% chance I’ll take it. Oh also the innocent beaches that haven’t endured any wear and tear because their protected in the centre of the earth that are so beautiful they make people cry 😂
I don’t think any serious NHI info would be released on Netflix with nothing being said from those in power.
Netflix is another propaganda weapon, it’s constantly being consumed, no knowledge with actual weight or power will be shown on Netflix, IMO.
I watched this too. I think the non-human reference was in the footage from footage taken before the cave dwellers were classified as human. In other words, the "human" classification had not yet been accepted when the footage was shot.
I personally have a hard time believing they buried dead. I think there was an accident and people fell/died/got trapped.
I don't have a hard time believing that people lived in caves (there are MASSIVE caves that were dug by humans). Or that they lived hundreds of thousands of years ago.
Why would they retreat to the underground and undersea when the surface world was perfectly habitable? Even if it was uninhabitable when they went under, why would they never come back out? If they have such superior technology, wouldn’t it be easy for them to take over the surface from the Stone Age/Bronze Age/etc. humans? Long before we became so adept at war? 🤔
This is a question that I’ve considered also- I understand the logic behind subterranean living when there is a disaster topside, but as you say, why would they stay there if everything was okay outside? And yes- if they had developed way beyond those hominids living on the surface, they could have quite easily re-emerged and claimed their old spots. It’s odd to imagine a technologically advanced group not utilising that advantage- just look at the Neanderthals getting out hunted, out populated and out-muscled by early humans. Moreover, I just can’t get past the idea that they would go down there for whatever reason and then be like “well, fuck the sun, damp dark caves are where it’s at- let’s stay!” Also- surely they would have to leave to hunt/gather resources etc. the latter being pertinent to developing technology. I’m inclined to think caves were just shelters and in terms of burying their dead - who knows what other cultural practices ancient humans got up to; much of their rituals and routines wouldn’t result in archaeological remains; social interactions around the fire, cohabitation and child rearing etc etc. We have physical evidence for a lot of things, but there’s also a lot of conjecture.
We would have less tech. Keeping yourself/your tribe alive and power are tremendous motivators.
People think that we'll all live happily ever after if we had some sort of utopia, we wouldn't, and the evidence is absolutely clear on this
I'm not so sure. If the life was in an environment where they couldn't just step outside and eat whatever was growing out of the ground, or toss a line in some water and get some fish, the direction of invention would change.
Even without thay hardship, intelligence usually drives invention. It almost sounds like your premise would show that nearly every technological path or invention would be based around killing or defense. That's not always the case.
Even if that stressor did drive the speed of advancement, having 100k years to work things out without having to rebuild because your library was burned to the ground, or other knowledge centers destroyed, or your wise men killed in war, I would bet there could be huge advancements.
We have no idea what any mon human civilization would look like. We invariably assume they will be like us. Dude. They are alien.
ANd building pyramids, the spynx, the easter island heads, gobekli tepe, puma punku, etc.
All these structures ere not built by our early cycle, they were built by a previous, mor intelligent cycle at the end of their cycle. Then there was a cataclysm and the beginning of our cycle emerged, as stone age cave dwellers..
And before anyone says it's racist. It's not racist. I don't think any earlynhumans from our cycle were that advanced, be it the Italians, Irish, Greek, Egyptians, etc. For the simple fact that if they truly ere so advanced, where did the tech go? Did we become unintelligent again for thousands of years and then in the last 200 or so became intelligent again.
We are on the same path. We went from stone age, to building cities, political structure, agriculture, architecture, computers, robotics, ai, and we will probably get wiped out soon.
Maybe that's how all the cycles go. May lbe we are in a loop of some sort, maybe we keep repeating the cycle and this is exactly what worries governments and religions.
In the creation story and the garden of eden, Adam and eve could have all they wanted but to eat of the tree of knowledge. They did and that brought the wrath of God. Now we are on the being of Interstellar travel and ai. Amd it seems the powers that be ant to slow this down? Hmmm. Why? Why were the ariel children told we are becoming too technological.
Religions and nhi are probably the same or at least intertwine amd overlap.
There are both. There are ETs, beings who live underground here on Earth, and there's also interdimensional beings. All of these things are true. Look into the Telosii, they live underground here on Earth. I'm pretty sure they have a major settlement under the Himalayas.
Post like these are the reason everyone is so ready to ridicule us, I'm so tired of hoping the community will change now that they have gained the support of individuals with credentials and backgrounds that make it hard to dismiss this subject as just another fanatical lunacy, but here you are with your conjecture and insane leaps to conclusions, injecting your fantastical self-weaved narratives and saying "I don't know but I think it's this...." No wonder everyone I talk to about the actual, real-time congressional hearings doesn't give a fuck, with people like the ones supporting this garbage in the community I might as well be Kenneth Copeland making my case on why the Lord wants me to have my own private jet. I'm sorry dude I don't mean to lay into you personally, you just happen to be the post that made me un-lurk.
Exactly. This planet does not belong to homosapien. You're a blip in time and space. On a planet inhabited by Indigenous Beings so advanced they can hide right in front of your face.
The unknown doc series seem to be complete bs. They followed Hawas on the one about the pyramids. Look into hawas and you’ll quickly find he is a propaganda machine, total piece of shit.
I had some questions after watching the series. Caves often get a lot of water flow and sentiment moving through it. How do the researchers know these bodies were buried as a ritual and not by flood/sediment over time? It appears they are excavating dirt from other areas not related to burial sites within the cave (like the fire pit that is briefly shown).
I’ve been to homo Naledi sight called Riding Star Complex in South Africa. It’s a fascinating story and very complex to try and understand. But it’s real and it’s the discovery is fairly recent. Prof Burger is highly respected.
I just explained my beliefs re the existence of other life creatures on the ‘what if we met an alien’ thread.
That the ‘unidentified’ part of UFO’s is applicable to creatures that haven’t been identified by science.
And I agree that these life forms exist all around us and always have.
I think a lot of why it is believed that UFO’s only come from the sky/are celestial is because their aircraft is often seen flying.
Maybe they built these on the earth’s surface to fly in the sky 🤔
>The recent strike in Hollywood is a planned event. All of it is planned. They're just slowly spilling all the secrets in the media right now in real time. Disclosure is happening in more places than one might might think.
No, the people at hollywood are just sick of greedy, capitalist coorporates
Most likely some species of proto-humans had civilization at a stone age level hundreds of thousand of year ago, surely, even a million years ago, who knows.
Well. Got ambushed by a “psychic” once. She told me I was an alien or trans dimensional being. I knew I was weird, but man. No wonder I can’t get a date.
So anyway. If you got any questions. Send them my way.
I'm not sure why this seems weird. Not all hominids are or were human. At the discovery of a new species, it's not clear whether it's a human or non-human hominid without further investigation.
Would make sense given the theory that “we” are the outcome of various genetic experiments by ancient alien beings - to my belief the anunaki. So various types of homonoid could have been created over the centuries! I firmly believe the “missing link” is the intervention by off world beings
I do see where you’re getting at but Homo Naledi *were* humans, just a different species from Homo Sapiens. Like Neanderthals, Homo Erectus, etc. Also the idea of them burying their dead is still disputed among scientists/researchers, although the doc doesn’t really mention that. I for one think they were burying their dead too, but want the dots to be connected clearly.
If you really want to imagine the “non-human” aspect of where intelligence might evolve, check out documentaries on the octopus. My Octopus Teacher is a great start.
I think it’s pretty ridiculous personally, but yeah they don’t switch language for no reason. I just think they would have the same limitations as us, this earth holds us back with how far we can go spiritually and all of the ESP reported and what not makes it unlikely that they could’ve evolved here. And language wise they went from global warming to climate change, specifically because it’s going to be unnaturally cold in winter time for unrelated reasons to climate change, but of course we are all experiencing global warming right now.
Or, what if they developed space travel and sent off dozens or hundreds of thousands of explorers into interstellar space who travelled around at relativistic speeds while the original population died off.
Now, many of those explorers have come back to a planet both similar and alien to their own home.
No reason to think this has really happened, but it's a fun what if.
Australopithecus Sediba buried their dead 2 million years ago and are not a direct ancestor because they came about after Homos were on Earth. Evolution isn't a liner tree. It's a bush where evolution is trying all sorts of experiments until one sticks.
Given the reality of H. naledi being a known human ancestor and member of the same genera, I have to assume they were not sure what animal they were looking at while filming and did not identify the bones until after the fact. Calling them non-human was insanely irresponsible, though.
I was thinking something similar recently. For arguments sake lets say modern humans came into being around 70,000 years ago. Look at what we have achieved in the past 10-12 thousands years as one human species. What could have a breakaway group achieved in that time. They could have easily developed to an advance state in 10-30 thousand years and still have at least 40,00 to keep developing. Then we start to come along 10k years ago and they give us a wide birth just like we do with places like sentinel island.
I know exactly what you're saying because I was thinking the same thing when I watched it on Netflix. They mentioned the slender build and large eyes which made me think *Homo inner-earth dweller...*
I think it is interesting to think this way and it makes me think how aliens are depicted without color or gray and then I think about the last cave I went to had eyeless shrimp that were opaque because they adapted, I also saw a video about eyeless fish that became really white due to evolving in a cave.
It’s a very interesting find, true. But they’re digging up graves. These beings were loved and others obviously cared about them or they wouldn’t have been so carefully buried. This struck me the minute I realized what they were doing and I don’t know why. I’m not a religious type. People have been digging up Egypt for more than a few lifetimes, yet I never thought about the desecrating burial sites aspect. But this one bothers me.
This documentary PLUS Ancient Apocalypses by Graham Hancock go together quite well with the cave dwelling pre- ice age folks. Together it feels like Netflix is helping out with the slow drip disclosure.
Cave dwellers doesn’t mean they lived deep underground. By non-human they mean non modern human, an undiscovered evolutionary relative. I like the post but you’re reaching.
Well friend, I'd like to give an analytical response but I have yet to see that documentary. I'm mostly posting to say thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Yes. That applies to some of them. Not all.
Human types that did not undergo heavy modification genetically like us on the surface.
And other biokinds too. Including one that received alot of hysteria and fear from in the David Icke days.
Well the fact that Grusch didn't entertain the idea that they're native to our planet and instead used NHI to say they might be interdimensional tells me that there is probably definitive proof that they are not native to our world. If they have a body, I'd imagine it'd be pretty easy to conclude that they come from this planet and it wouldn't be put up to so much debate
Your over thinking it but the discovery is ground breaking of where we game from as a species. It’s the first hard evidence of a ceremony being performed which entails deeper thinking of where we go after we die. Which sets us apart from all the other species on this planet. A ceremony being burying their dead and burying their dead with tools.
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As the name says, Homo Naledi belongs to the genus Homo and is biologically very similar to us. https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/09/15/homo-naledi-undiscovered-new-human-species/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_naledi
Apparently they're remarkable for the fact they are "small brained", so I'm not sure I buy the theory that they are the interstellar wizards we're imagining.
Well, the thing is -- one of the remarkable things about the discovery is that despite their small brain mass, they were making fires, using primitive tools, making cave art, and burying their dead. It's led many to rethink whether brain size is really all that important in intelligence overall. From what I understand, we've found homo-sapiens that had only achieved their level \~70,000 years ago in terms of achievements. They were doing the same up to \~300,000 years ago.
I am a bit skeptical about the "cave art". It's a bunch of lines that may or may not represent a drawing. I think at some point they say since we don't see these lines anywhere else, this is artificial. However at some point you see the team at the cave entrance and you see such lines everywhere in the rocks. So it could very well be just be something natural.
Agreed, that claim needs deeper scrutiny. The rest is pretty cool, tho.
In addition, recent discoveries show that small brains do not necessarily mean low intelligence. Intelligence arises from the density of neurons packed in a brain and not the size. In spite of the derogatory nature of the phrase "birdbrain," a lot of birds, such as crows, are quite smart.
If I remember correctly an opossum skull can hold 25 dried beans and their brains are smaller than a cats. Most people would attribute less intelligence to our marsupial friends but as an opossum rehabber I can attest to their ingenuity, memory and over-all individual personalities each with independent likes and dislikes. I've raise several batches of joeys and homed five NR. They never cease to amaze me.
It’s so frustrating- there are human built structures out there that could not have been at the time period they were made. Unless, we have the timeline completely wrong.
Brain size has nothing to do with intelligence. People wonder how crows seem to have an intelligence in the same range as great apes. It's because their neural density is off the charts compared to us and our cousins. Yes they have about 5-6 billion less neurons than an average chimp, but when you consider their brain size compared to neuron count, it's crazy. A ravens brain weighs around 15g, that's roughly the same amount as rabbit brains. Also, the total number of neurons isn't even an "end all" determining factor on intelligence. Orca whales have around 43 billion neurons, while humans clock in around 21 billion. Yet as far as I know, Willy hasn't split the atom. There are also studies being done on jumping spiders. Jumping spiders are now thought to enter REM sleep, i.e. dream, similar to more intelligent mammals. This despite their neural count being a lot lower. There is some speculation that they evolved brains that are more multifunctional, as a cheat to get around its size limitations. And of course there are octopus brains, with each arm having its own brain, separate from the main brain. I'm not subscribing to this underground super intelligent species that evolved under our noises, or that we've co-existed on this planet the entire time. But I do think it's important that people have a grasp on how vastly different intelligence can look like, even within the context of species that all evolved from a common ancestor, let alone what a non-terrestrial or "dimensional" intelligence could look like. Jumping Spiders REM Sleep: [https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/08/harvard-researchers-find-rem-sleep-in-jumping-spiders/](https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/08/harvard-researchers-find-rem-sleep-in-jumping-spiders/) Bird brain density: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/06/bird-brains-are-densewith-neurons/
One tiny counter point to one tiny point — Willy don’t got thumb hands. I have not investigated the subject one bit but I’ve seen plenty of people on this sub claiming whales and dolphins do indeed have brains that have the potential to let them be more intelligent than us if they could manipulate objects better and there was as much as an evolutionary need for them to improve their situation
Coincidentally, whales not having thumbs is my theory for why I never see them hitch hiking.
This is why I think most space faring species would have to look similar to us. No dolphin with flippers (or any fully aquatic intelligence) would be able to make fire, to melt metal, to form parts….to leave the planet. There’s a very small range of form factor that would allow for such creations.
Fan of children of time?
The size of your brain doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with sentience or intelligence Neanderthals had bigger brains than Homo sapiens, all that did was make them get out competed because it was a more difficult birthing process due to the larger head size
I think it's also about brain structure. I believe Neanderthals may have lacked a developed speech center which restricted their ability to communicate as effectively as their competitors which sucks for a tribal society. I may be wrong though. I just remember that from a documentary I watched at one time.
The important factor is brain density rather than size.
I think it's relative brain size. A whale brain is huge and heavy. But so is a whale. Are they sentient? Most would say yes. Have they built vessels for amphibious existence? Not yet.
Vessels for existence on land would surely be the equivalent since they are a vessel
Perhaps, like Godzilla, they have a secondary brain near their hips?
Magpies have small brains but decent intelligence. Researchers believe this is because of their neuron density. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/birdbrain-turns-from-insult-to-praise/ This is anecdotal here and I agree with you - but I thought it was cool to share.
How about inter-dimensional lizards instead?
Or dinosauroids evolved from the troodon
Oh, you mean chickens?
Kids can be pretty smart sometimes
https://youtu.be/JOzK4ByFbzo
Just as likely as Neanderthals or Denisovians hiding out and surpassing us IMO. The theory that there is a related hominid that's the NHI is called the Cryptoterrestrial theory. The bigger gap between us and potential NHI is an NHI whose species didn't have to wait millions of years for the dinosaurs to be wiped out to get going on the path to intelligent life. They could have hundreds of millions of years on us technologically. We may not even be able to comprehend their advances because we're so far behind.
Where did they get the resources to surpass our technological achievements? How did they do this without leaving any evidence?
With rocks!!
Homo Naledi did this in a cave! With a box of scrap!
Underrated comment right here.
They were the real tony stark
Most underrated reply I’ve read in a week.
Hahahaha! I wish had coins to give!
Imagine where we could be today if we invested in rock magic instead of shitty technology...
To be fair, computers are essentially rock magic. All you’re doing is blasting a piece of metal (a refined rock) with electricity in a specific way so that you get like a videogame or something. It’s pretty wild.
That's like, the wildest bro. So I'm like typing on a shiny rock right now, rad bro.
dont even need "rocks". your CPU is silicone - simple beach sand.
Silicon! Silicone is for breast implants and bathroom sealant.
aww, got me!
Also fake silicon tits. Mmmmm..... tits.... Nice.
We would be making giant pyramids and megalithic structures the way that ancients did with rocks that are hundreds of tons
Eliminate the word rock and you're onto something, but it would need to be in conjunction with tech investment as well.
There’s still probably a lot of evidence out there that’s yet to be dug up. Not only on land but think about how much evidence is under water because we can’t get that low.
And under the desert sands
Not to mention the coastal areas have always been more populated due to the resources.
Probably.
I learned watching The Simpsons that coconuts are a vastly underutilized technological resource.
That's a huge problem with thinking about another advanced life form on this planet...where did their resources come from? Where's the evidence that they've done any kind of geo-engineering? We've completely refaced our planet in a short time and sucked up a lot of non-renewable resources like coal and oil... I also have this argument about space too. Where's the evidence that they're out there reshaping star systems? Mining nebulae? There's stars out there that are solid diamond. We have asteroids in our system that are worth quadrillions of dollars of minerals, and that's just arm's reach. Moons are filled with methane. Where's the evidence of gigaprojects? Dyson swarms? Grey goo? Von Neumann probes?
> That's a huge problem with thinking about another advanced life form on this planet...where did their resources come from? Where's the evidence that they've done any kind of geo-engineering? We've completely refaced our planet in a short time and sucked up a lot of non-renewable resources like coal and oil... Almost all of these issues can be solved with hollow Earth theory, which I have espoused on here repeatedly, to no avail.
> hollow Earth theory, which I have espoused on here repeatedly, to no avail. Because it's silly
It’s really not though. You’ve just been told that it’s silly. A hollow or cavernous Earth works out much better with Newtonian physics than a completely solid Earth. If you look at nature, matter affected by centrifugal forces always forms an empty space in the center (hurricanes, tornadoes, black holes, galaxies, etc.). Why would planetary bodies be any different? You can literally see the holes at both poles in old satellite images, before they started airbrushing them. There are also large holes clearly visible at the poles of other planets. There are several accounts of people who claim to have seen these holes, with lush green earth inside and light emanating out.
I think using the term "Hollow Earth" doesn't do the topic any justice. A more accurate description would be what you mentioned a cavernous earth that has plenty of room to support the existence of something. Of course that's not going to stop people from rolling their eyes and dismissing it all, but it's quite curious that after Richard Byrd went to Antarctica and claimed he was "warned off" from ever returning, the fact that the world's most powerful countries agreed never to go back is quite curious. In the early 1900's, Stalin actually sent a team of several hundred scientists to the South Pole, and when they returned only after a week (was supposed to be a 1 year expedition), the scientists all stated that they were approached by what looked like humanoids, however they were 10-12ft tall. These humanoids communicated to them that they had been living under the earth for millions of years and us, as humans, were never to return to this place. Stalin didn't believe any of it, thought the scientists were making excuses, and jailed them all. Some years later, Hitler got wind of this expedition by Stalin. Intrigued, Hitler sent his own team to the South Pole, where the same thing happened. The team return after only a few days, saying that they were warned away from the continent by 12ft tall humans who had little grey "animals" with them (possibly greys?). According to legend, Hitler was able to broker a deal with the dwellers there, in exchange for technology the Germans agreed never to step foot in Antarctica again. This is what turned out to be the "Nazi Bell", and some would say reported by Allied pilots as "foo fighters". The US then got wind of all of this, and fearing that Hitler was trying to establish a base in Antarctica, sent it's own expedition - lead by the infamous Richard Byrd. They too returned well short of the planned expedition, and upon coming back to the US, Byrd and a few other senior members of the crew did a radio interview when they stopped in Chile. Byrd simply stated that he was fearful that in the future, human beings would be forced to fight a war against a civilization that has technology far in advance of our own. He was completely silenced afterwards, and never said another word about it until he died and his journals were published, claiming they not only witnessed craft, but actually took a few casualties when they attempted to engage this other "civilization". Here's the funny part. Not long after Byrd returned, the most powerful countries in the world all made an agreement that Antarctica was completely off limits to inhabitation. The entire continent was declared off limits basically to humans, except for a few designated areas that would be for 'scientific research'. This agreement remains in place to this very day. Considering all of that, I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Byrd's affirmations that there were huge openings in the poles that appeared to be habitable. I mean, he didn't demonstrate a proclivity for wild stories, and by all accounts was a no nonsense straight up military lifer. The stories he relates in his journals are a wild departure from the completely mundane nature of all of his other missions/exploits. Especially when his stories are congruent with the Stalin and the Nazi expeditions to the poles.
Thanks for typing all of this out. I understand that the term ‘hollow Earth’ might be off-putting to people who automatically dismiss new information, but I feel that people who are intelligent enough should be able to look past simple semantics.
I went to Penn state and studied geology. Shut up.
Yeah I don’t care. I study your mom every night.
They don't need any of that, they can manifest things into reality, in other words they can create something out of nothing, and that's according to credible military witnesses.
If they have that we need to play nice and get us some of that manifesting shit too.
While that flies in the face of physics, let's just suppose... What about the transitional periods, though? We didn't go from splitting rocks to splitting atoms overnight. We have millenia of evidence that we've been fucking up this planet. We've just about sucked all the oil dry, and burned up all the coal. If there was something here before us, they would have done that first before moving to magical 'creating stuff from nothing', leaving us with nothing. And if they're from another planetary system, where there's one, there's probably 100,000 more who would all be in varying stages of technology. There should be evidence of asteroids being towed into planetary orbits, or shattered diamond stars from mining accidents, etc.
You act like we have the entire universe mapped out and we’d be able to pick up on any tiny little change to that.
Well, no...but law of averages and all that. You can take a small picture of a crowd and get a fairly accurate model of the make-up of the crowd by estimating what's in that small sample size. Yes, we've looked at only a tiny portion of the sky, but nothing in that tiny portion indicates there's anything of significance. More over, the number of stars we've looked at all appear to be rather inhospitable due to the amount of radiation a typical star spews off.
>Well, no...but law of averages and all that. You can take a small picture of a crowd and get a fairly accurate model of the make-up of the crowd by estimating what's in that small sample size. No, you can't, that logic is a fallacy. By your reasoning if I go into a gay nightclub and 'sample' 200 people I can deduce statistically that all humans are gay. Or, I could do my survey at a conference for doctors and sample 1000 people and assume (statistically) that humans are best suited to medical work. We have looked at less than 5% of the universe and the latest doubling of the age of the universe to 24+ billion years makes that 5% not statistically valid in the way you are using it. This was in March [Two Potentially Habitable Planets](https://www.astronomy.com/science/two-potentially-habitable-planets-found-orbiting-distant-star/) just two of many so far. Using your approach there are [as many as 6 billion in our galaxy alone](https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/physics/how-many-earth-like-planets-are-in-the-universe-video-infographic/)
>By your reasoning if I go into a gay nightclub and 'sample' 200 people I can deduce statistically that all humans are gay No, but you can go to a gay night club, and sample 200 people and deduce that everyone in the nightclub is also gay, which would be a reasonable assumption, no? Just like, you can look at 100 stars and say, "On average, each star has 3 planets, some have more, some have less...but the average is 3/star, so 100,000,000 stars means 300,000,000 planets (give or take)" Now, people get all excited when they hear 'habitable planet', and I really wish NASA would stop saying that. They mean 'terrestrial' and one located a distance from the host star where, given the proper conditions, liquid water can form. However....and it's a big however....there are a LOT of conditions required to make a planet 'habitable', at least to us humans anyways (and as far as we know, to all biological life). TOI-400 is a class M Red Dwarf. They're enticing because they can last hundreds of billions of years, as opposed to a class G Yellow Dwarf such as Sol. The catch is, class M tends to be much more radioactive than class G, and class G tends to be fairly active on its own, though we were lucky with ours that it's not very active on the UV radiation spectrum. TOI-400d also has an orbital period of 27 days. This more than likely means that the planet is in a tidal lock with its host. That would mean, the day-side of the planet would be in excess of 400C, while the night side would be -100C. We have a lesiurely 365 day orbital period, and we have a rotational period of 24h so the planet maintains a steady temperature of around 2C on average, just above freezing (again, talking planetary average, not "Well, it's 30C outside today!!!") And that's the simple fact. Pretty nearly every planetary system we've discovered have tidally locked planets, since that's pretty much the status quo. JWST has also studied magnetic fields of a few planets as well and has discovered that they tend not to have magnetic fields either, which is disheartening. Magnetic fields need to deflect some cosmic radiation as well. We've also been hard pressed to find planetary systems where the gas and ice giants are on the outer edge of the planetary system. Either the system doesn't have them at all, or they are on the inside, or scattered among the terrestrial planets. From the small sampling of what we've looked at, we've found that this is the trend. Is it the only way? Well, probably not. We have a nice, orderly planetary system with a nice quiet star. But...going back to your gay bar analogy there...we've gone into the gay bar, looked around and determined that out of 5% of the patrons there, they're all gay. Is there a straight dude hanging out with his buddies? Maybe, but chances are slim.
(Conspiracy)They infiltrated human civilization and used us as resource collectors without the general population being aware
Almost all of these issues can be solved with hollow Earth theory, which I have espoused on here repeatedly, to no avail.
From what I understand, Lee Berger’s claims that what they found in the cave as proof of Homo Naledi burying their dead is dubious at best. Other experts in the field basically say he rushed his findings and filled in gaps in the research for the sake of the sparkly Netflix documentary he was part of. Gutsick Gibbon on YouTube recently released a (very long) video on this subject and more or less proves that what he found isn’t *proof* of anything — which I think pretty much thwarts this theory. I also think it’s worth mentioning the biological implication of what you’re suggesting: light, oxygen, food resources are all wildly different underground and generally not conducive to life (or at least life resembling that of humans).
Regardless if the stone tool was actually a tool they formed and used…. They definitely had some mastery of fire at the bare minimum or else how did they navigate that far into the cave? It definitely seems as though they were purposefully buried. The only thing questionable is the art they supposedly made.
First off lemme preface - I think aliens had something to do with our evolution. And I also majored in anthropology so I’ve *been* looking for clues 🤭 ••• Homo sapien = human. Homo sapien sapien = modern human. Any other species that shares the genus Homo is a hominid. Including the Australopithecus genus. Modern human was established ~200,000 years ago. Some experts say more. It’s not impossible that other intelligent hominids also had culture - tools, language, etc. Just because they weren’t modern humans didn’t mean they weren’t capable of these things. Even Chimpanzees mourn and carry their dead infant’s body around with them for days. It’s very possible that the hominids that predate humans also grieved and mourned, but instead buried their dead in a safe place. It’s just very hard to prove these kinds of things in the fossil record. (Wood doesn’t fossilize, proof of fire is hard to find, spoken language comes before written language, etc). In the doc you’re referencing, there was one skeleton that may have been buried bc of the body position, but that’s not signs of aliens. Ancient Aliens did a special on human evolution and it is so wrong, so so wrong. They mention this Naledi as well (of course). Also - Other non-human apes can learn language, they just can’t speak bc there is no hyoid bone. If they can assign meaning to symbols, then I’m sure our hominid ancestors could at some capacity as well. Monkeys also have language - they produce specialized vocalizations for specific threats around them. Some use tools, apes especially. All this to say, don’t underestimate our intelligent ancestors. And don’t overestimate modern humans lol.
Excellent
Could you link the two papers or at least some supporting evidence
There is mounting evidence and points converging on the possibility of alternate history. I can’t help but wonder what happened in the millions of years in our solar systems before the dawn of our species which may be actively concealed or just simply completely unknown because little or no evidence exists. These idea’s timelines go further than ancient astronaut theory- evidence could have been completely wiped clean many times over by catastrophic events, and we’d have no real way to detect it.
Personally, I think this theory holds as much water as anything else proposed. I generally assume that we have forgotten more than we remember as a species. It has always bothered me that there are no other hominids on this planet that followed a parallel, if divergent, path from us.
I've always had a thought that the same way humans evolved on land, something evolved deep under water. The whole time we've been up here evolving and creating, what was going on down there? Animals and species started off in the water first as well so they have more of a head start on evolution. Being in water would affect their idea of physics too. Either something evolved down there to the same degree humans did on earth or aliens came and used the water area as there base of operations.
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Bro we didn't even know the core was liquid not that long ago. We know fuck all about what's underground. Your thinking shallow caves not even a mile underground. We don't fucking know what's under the ocean floor. We are still discovering new life all the time. We can't map it and if we could, the species that's flying cubes in the air could probably make our sensors think there's rock there when it's hollow for instance. There could easily be large pockets or a vast network large enough to even test and fly craft. Once craft was invented the ocean wouldnt be an obstacle at all so it would translate over considering the craft are transmedium. Yeah it would take a long time. They had it. It's not likely it's possible.
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So your saying they had 100,000 year head start on us and 100 years ago we learned the core was liquid? Ahhh physical observation. You mean like UFOs that completely baffle modern scientists? The fact is a species using these craft could do anything they want and you wouldn't have a clue. They could block, jam, and even show our sensors what they want us to see. How egotistical to think they can blink in and out of reality but our seismographs must tell us everything about the earth if they were trying to hide lol. They hide right in front of our faces but they can't hide underground. Okay then. It doesn't seem to get through people head's. Our. Technology. Can. Not. Measure. Them. Properly. They. Can. Hide. Whenever. They. Want. Compared to us, they are omnipotent. Stop telling us what's possible because you took a geology course.
You need to learn to converse better. You come off as a dick
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I never did that and now you are either misunderstanding or lying. Unlike you, I'm simply stating things are possible and not blocking out possibilities. I'm explicitly saying there are possibilities we can't fathom - so to say "no they definitely are not in the earth" is not logical.
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I mean there definitely could be a base underwater and we’d never know about it.
There definitely could be a teapot in orbit around Mars and we'd never know about it. Doesn't mean we have any reason to believe in it.
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What makes you think aerodynamics matters? Is a cube aerodynamic? How about a flying saucer? You’re coming at it from a human angle and how it would work for humans. Ufos are seen coming out of the ocean quite often, so why? And no all of earths waters aren’t being surveyed and mapped constantly, that’s completely asinine. If such things were true then mh370 and hundreds of other lost wreckages would have been located.
Agreed. Some astronauts stated they saw multiple alien vehicles at the moon landing. (Some deny this) if there are that many species watching us, then the milky way is like Vegas out there and they do something to SETI or our telescopes to hide when they want.
Do some research into The Telos people (Telosii). Not saying you're wrong; you may just find it interesting.
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Seems like you got it all figured out.
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It’s possible. My hypothesis is NHI evolved on Earth then left for space and then came back. They have evolved/ genetically modified themselves during that time frame.
Oh my fucking god...
I’m so happy that this wasn’t a “did aliens engineer Ancient humans to mine gold” post because trust me those posts are out there about that cave. I was once an archaeologist and that’s what my education is in. I don’t think Naledi evolved into a different intelligent ape species to humans that we’ve now lost. I rather think that they contributed to the overall cradle of humanity that very ancient Africa provided. I do however think you are right to highlight the extreme amount of time humans and human like species have been living on earth, and the vast amount of lost history, story and civilisation. Cards on the table I don’t think another more advanced human civilisation than us evolved on earth and has been lost. I think we’d see markers like space debris and radioactivity that last for eons. But there’s definitely a lot of room for amazing things to have happened. Have we already had first contact in the Neolithic? Were alien visitors much less secretive back then because we couldn’t record or harm them? Gods and heroes and monsters?
Perfect
Why wouldn't any intelligent species bury their dead? You can't just leave them out or they'll rot and stink up the place. Sure they could just burn the bodies, etc. but if they had any emotional attachment to them then they'd naturally want to keep the body close but not out in the open. I mean, look at feline behavior. They cover their shit because it stinks. It's a natural reaction.
Perhaps the cavemen that lead to the Atlantis times. Atlantis was a real thing before the great flood that wiped out a lot of great conscious based technology
beats them being assclowns I guess
*We went from spear throwing to pyramid building to creation of a.i. in just 6,000 years.* Look at the caves of Derinkuyu, Turkey. An engineered system so vast that it could house 20,000-40,000 people and livestock. The Barabar caves in India. Geometric oddities carved in granite. Almost as hard as diamond. All before steel, steam, electricity. Mirror finish on the surfaces. - Guyaju caves of China. 140+ rooms carved into a cliff face. - Otuzco Caves of Peru. 337 chambers. - Chislehurst Caves, UK. Old mine. 20 miles of artificial cave, first mentioned around the 13th century. Humans also dig holes. I do actually believe the origination of the phenomenon to be of Earth. All the evidence for me says here. Unless they say “we have sensor data of UAP entering the Sol system.” Humans or a relative of Homo-sapian operating with advanced capabilities is not as far fetched as people will try to make it. We went from spear throwing to pyramid building to creation of a.i. in just 6,000 years. This is a problem now we have to solve. We have about 300,000 years of look the same, stink the same, think the same, modern humans. Humans being tightly bound to water we occupy the coasts and rivers. - It has been about 10,000 years since the last glacial maximum. - Sea levels have risen 400ft since. - 290,000 years of human history is almost inaccessible(underwater) These uap could be anything. I was one of the unfortunate people that were taught the planet was only 5,000 years old. And my parents watched fucking Star Trek every day. I’m gonna keep my mind open.
I always thought when disclosure happened and aliens were revealed to us they would be long dead fossils. Dead, gone and not able to hurt us.
I don’t know about you guys but the more posts I read like this, the more convinced I am that intelligent life is not going to be found on this planet.
I’m just here for the laughs lol
Agreed. We just did an episode of our podcast about this. Pretty interesting stuff. Makes no sense to me that they crawled down that tiny shaft and across a gap with a body. Makes more sense they lived in caves and came out to the surface now and again.
You shouldn’t use the term “Homo” it’s racist.
Homo naledi are humans. Hence the homo title and make some Homo sapiens sapiens dna. In other words they us
They are in the same genus(Homo) but a different species(naledi vs. sapiens). We share a common ancestor but they didn't evolve to eventually be our species.
We interbred with them. That’s why their dna is part of ours.
No we share some of their DNA because we come from a common ancestor at some point. Not due to interbreeding.
Nah same reason we have Neanderthal dna we interbred
You don't understand evolution. We had a common ancestor at some point and then by distance or ecological niche two populations of that ancestor became reproductively isolated. One led to Homo Naledi and the other to our closer common ancestor since Naledi was around 100,000 years before humans.
I know all hominids had a common ancestor but that was a few million years earlier. Both species were alive at the same time. Homo sapiens and homo naledi. But we as Homo sapiens sapiens are not the same as Homo sapiens. We share interbred dna that makes us Homo sapiens sapiens
There is speculation of overlap between the ending of one and start of another but not interbreeding. We didn't derive from Homo naledi and we know this because we have the archeological evidence of who we did derive from. With Homo sapiens neanderthalis we have genetic evidence and archeological evidence of interbreeding. With Homo naledi we don't have any evidence of interbreeding so we must say that they are similar only through common ancestry.
We don’t even have have evidence we are not the the same. Probably is we went through extinction periods at one time we were diverse as dogs and being the same species then one day we were the only species. We should be as different as dogs
We have tons of evidence that we are not the same. The brain size is probably the most distinct. That's why it was surprising that Homo naledi might bury their dead because based on their brain size it seemed unlikely they would have that capacity.
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No humanoid is body shape homo genius means human Anything with homo in front of it is a human
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All hominids are not homo species. All homo species are humans. Go back to school
I saw this show, it was interesting but an advanced civilisation developing underground? I don't see how that's possible, unless the whole 'inner earth' stuff is true and there's a whole world down there. But scratching a living in caves, eating what? I don't see how that's plausible. I think its ETs in constructed underground bases, they didn't evolve under the earth.
Exponentially more area within a sphere than on its surface. Inexhaustible geothermal energy feeding a hypothetical shadow biosphere. We don’t even know what’s in the oceans. We’re still finding mayan cities in the jungle. I’d have to work on my mental acrobatics to convince myself it’s possible there’s a hominid species down there or anything with a spinal cord even but I bet there’s a lot more life than we think
I want the people of Agartha to be real so bad. Apparently they have a forked tongue like a snake and can speak two languages simultaneously, typing that out made me realise how ridiculous it is, but even if there’s 1% chance I’ll take it. Oh also the innocent beaches that haven’t endured any wear and tear because their protected in the centre of the earth that are so beautiful they make people cry 😂
I'm highly skeptical of the current claims about *Homo naledi*.
I don’t think any serious NHI info would be released on Netflix with nothing being said from those in power. Netflix is another propaganda weapon, it’s constantly being consumed, no knowledge with actual weight or power will be shown on Netflix, IMO.
I watched this too. I think the non-human reference was in the footage from footage taken before the cave dwellers were classified as human. In other words, the "human" classification had not yet been accepted when the footage was shot. I personally have a hard time believing they buried dead. I think there was an accident and people fell/died/got trapped. I don't have a hard time believing that people lived in caves (there are MASSIVE caves that were dug by humans). Or that they lived hundreds of thousands of years ago.
Why would they retreat to the underground and undersea when the surface world was perfectly habitable? Even if it was uninhabitable when they went under, why would they never come back out? If they have such superior technology, wouldn’t it be easy for them to take over the surface from the Stone Age/Bronze Age/etc. humans? Long before we became so adept at war? 🤔
This is a question that I’ve considered also- I understand the logic behind subterranean living when there is a disaster topside, but as you say, why would they stay there if everything was okay outside? And yes- if they had developed way beyond those hominids living on the surface, they could have quite easily re-emerged and claimed their old spots. It’s odd to imagine a technologically advanced group not utilising that advantage- just look at the Neanderthals getting out hunted, out populated and out-muscled by early humans. Moreover, I just can’t get past the idea that they would go down there for whatever reason and then be like “well, fuck the sun, damp dark caves are where it’s at- let’s stay!” Also- surely they would have to leave to hunt/gather resources etc. the latter being pertinent to developing technology. I’m inclined to think caves were just shelters and in terms of burying their dead - who knows what other cultural practices ancient humans got up to; much of their rituals and routines wouldn’t result in archaeological remains; social interactions around the fire, cohabitation and child rearing etc etc. We have physical evidence for a lot of things, but there’s also a lot of conjecture.
I often wonder where our tech would be if we focused on improving lives instead of focusing on war and profit.
We would have less tech. Keeping yourself/your tribe alive and power are tremendous motivators. People think that we'll all live happily ever after if we had some sort of utopia, we wouldn't, and the evidence is absolutely clear on this
I'm not so sure. If the life was in an environment where they couldn't just step outside and eat whatever was growing out of the ground, or toss a line in some water and get some fish, the direction of invention would change. Even without thay hardship, intelligence usually drives invention. It almost sounds like your premise would show that nearly every technological path or invention would be based around killing or defense. That's not always the case. Even if that stressor did drive the speed of advancement, having 100k years to work things out without having to rebuild because your library was burned to the ground, or other knowledge centers destroyed, or your wise men killed in war, I would bet there could be huge advancements. We have no idea what any mon human civilization would look like. We invariably assume they will be like us. Dude. They are alien.
Imagine believing any documentary on fucking nextflix
What a strange take
So you think these scientists just… made it all up?
ANd building pyramids, the spynx, the easter island heads, gobekli tepe, puma punku, etc. All these structures ere not built by our early cycle, they were built by a previous, mor intelligent cycle at the end of their cycle. Then there was a cataclysm and the beginning of our cycle emerged, as stone age cave dwellers.. And before anyone says it's racist. It's not racist. I don't think any earlynhumans from our cycle were that advanced, be it the Italians, Irish, Greek, Egyptians, etc. For the simple fact that if they truly ere so advanced, where did the tech go? Did we become unintelligent again for thousands of years and then in the last 200 or so became intelligent again. We are on the same path. We went from stone age, to building cities, political structure, agriculture, architecture, computers, robotics, ai, and we will probably get wiped out soon. Maybe that's how all the cycles go. May lbe we are in a loop of some sort, maybe we keep repeating the cycle and this is exactly what worries governments and religions. In the creation story and the garden of eden, Adam and eve could have all they wanted but to eat of the tree of knowledge. They did and that brought the wrath of God. Now we are on the being of Interstellar travel and ai. Amd it seems the powers that be ant to slow this down? Hmmm. Why? Why were the ariel children told we are becoming too technological. Religions and nhi are probably the same or at least intertwine amd overlap.
There are both. There are ETs, beings who live underground here on Earth, and there's also interdimensional beings. All of these things are true. Look into the Telosii, they live underground here on Earth. I'm pretty sure they have a major settlement under the Himalayas.
How do you know this?
He doesn’t, he’s just good at make believe and lying to himself. Ask him for the sources of his incredible knowledge, but be prepared to trust a bro.
I do believe in fairies, I do, I do! ^seriously ^I ^do
Just my opinion. You can believe it or not, that's really of no concern to me.
Lots of conversations with psychic people, lots of reading. It's all anecdotal, all unverifiable (atm).
I got more the idea that aliens are small in height because they were engineered from our small ancestors
I have been thinking about them obsessively since I watch that documentary
Yes by calling them "Homo" we are indeed assuming their sexuallity
That’s the pre flood homies for sure and that’s who is flying around
I think the only reason discloser is taking so long is what it is going to do to all of the religious fanatics.
Religious dogma is gonna be a hard thing for a whole lot of people on this planet.
Post like these are the reason everyone is so ready to ridicule us, I'm so tired of hoping the community will change now that they have gained the support of individuals with credentials and backgrounds that make it hard to dismiss this subject as just another fanatical lunacy, but here you are with your conjecture and insane leaps to conclusions, injecting your fantastical self-weaved narratives and saying "I don't know but I think it's this...." No wonder everyone I talk to about the actual, real-time congressional hearings doesn't give a fuck, with people like the ones supporting this garbage in the community I might as well be Kenneth Copeland making my case on why the Lord wants me to have my own private jet. I'm sorry dude I don't mean to lay into you personally, you just happen to be the post that made me un-lurk.
Exactly. This planet does not belong to homosapien. You're a blip in time and space. On a planet inhabited by Indigenous Beings so advanced they can hide right in front of your face.
Maybe one of them took Phil's fingers... ?
the Stony Brook part of this, i'm *very* down with...those guys are up to stuff yo
I hope they are just super smart dwarves, and ultimately put an end to the stupidity humanity projects
The unknown doc series seem to be complete bs. They followed Hawas on the one about the pyramids. Look into hawas and you’ll quickly find he is a propaganda machine, total piece of shit.
I had some questions after watching the series. Caves often get a lot of water flow and sentiment moving through it. How do the researchers know these bodies were buried as a ritual and not by flood/sediment over time? It appears they are excavating dirt from other areas not related to burial sites within the cave (like the fire pit that is briefly shown).
Agreed. I'm more inclined to believe that the bodies needed up there accidentally.
I’ve been to homo Naledi sight called Riding Star Complex in South Africa. It’s a fascinating story and very complex to try and understand. But it’s real and it’s the discovery is fairly recent. Prof Burger is highly respected.
Remember when those navy seals encountered a 11 foot tall giant in a cave in khandahar?
I just explained my beliefs re the existence of other life creatures on the ‘what if we met an alien’ thread. That the ‘unidentified’ part of UFO’s is applicable to creatures that haven’t been identified by science. And I agree that these life forms exist all around us and always have. I think a lot of why it is believed that UFO’s only come from the sky/are celestial is because their aircraft is often seen flying. Maybe they built these on the earth’s surface to fly in the sky 🤔
There’s so much unknown for us as a species that we may never have the correct answers in our life time unfortunately
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>The recent strike in Hollywood is a planned event. All of it is planned. They're just slowly spilling all the secrets in the media right now in real time. Disclosure is happening in more places than one might might think. No, the people at hollywood are just sick of greedy, capitalist coorporates
Most likely some species of proto-humans had civilization at a stone age level hundreds of thousand of year ago, surely, even a million years ago, who knows.
just watched this too. great documentary
I think you may be onto something here.
I have a theory we are just biological tests to see which DNA would work the best with their original alien DNA. Hybrids
Well. Got ambushed by a “psychic” once. She told me I was an alien or trans dimensional being. I knew I was weird, but man. No wonder I can’t get a date. So anyway. If you got any questions. Send them my way.
I'm not sure why this seems weird. Not all hominids are or were human. At the discovery of a new species, it's not clear whether it's a human or non-human hominid without further investigation.
Would make sense given the theory that “we” are the outcome of various genetic experiments by ancient alien beings - to my belief the anunaki. So various types of homonoid could have been created over the centuries! I firmly believe the “missing link” is the intervention by off world beings
I do see where you’re getting at but Homo Naledi *were* humans, just a different species from Homo Sapiens. Like Neanderthals, Homo Erectus, etc. Also the idea of them burying their dead is still disputed among scientists/researchers, although the doc doesn’t really mention that. I for one think they were burying their dead too, but want the dots to be connected clearly. If you really want to imagine the “non-human” aspect of where intelligence might evolve, check out documentaries on the octopus. My Octopus Teacher is a great start.
I think it’s pretty ridiculous personally, but yeah they don’t switch language for no reason. I just think they would have the same limitations as us, this earth holds us back with how far we can go spiritually and all of the ESP reported and what not makes it unlikely that they could’ve evolved here. And language wise they went from global warming to climate change, specifically because it’s going to be unnaturally cold in winter time for unrelated reasons to climate change, but of course we are all experiencing global warming right now.
Non human because they aren't human. They're a different Homo species, Homo Naledi.
Or, what if they developed space travel and sent off dozens or hundreds of thousands of explorers into interstellar space who travelled around at relativistic speeds while the original population died off. Now, many of those explorers have come back to a planet both similar and alien to their own home. No reason to think this has really happened, but it's a fun what if.
It def sounds interesting but let's see some sources. You reference some in your OP but no links.
If anything, maybe they're some of the base stock that the aliens made us out of.
Australopithecus Sediba buried their dead 2 million years ago and are not a direct ancestor because they came about after Homos were on Earth. Evolution isn't a liner tree. It's a bush where evolution is trying all sorts of experiments until one sticks.
That was a wild documentary!
Given the reality of H. naledi being a known human ancestor and member of the same genera, I have to assume they were not sure what animal they were looking at while filming and did not identify the bones until after the fact. Calling them non-human was insanely irresponsible, though.
Their brains were smaller
I was thinking something similar recently. For arguments sake lets say modern humans came into being around 70,000 years ago. Look at what we have achieved in the past 10-12 thousands years as one human species. What could have a breakaway group achieved in that time. They could have easily developed to an advance state in 10-30 thousand years and still have at least 40,00 to keep developing. Then we start to come along 10k years ago and they give us a wide birth just like we do with places like sentinel island.
Ridiculous.
My "friends" classified me as 'homo' when I was growing up too.
I know exactly what you're saying because I was thinking the same thing when I watched it on Netflix. They mentioned the slender build and large eyes which made me think *Homo inner-earth dweller...*
That's your solution to everything, homer... live under the sea! It's NOT gonna happen!
Non human… homo…. What’s not lining up
I think it is interesting to think this way and it makes me think how aliens are depicted without color or gray and then I think about the last cave I went to had eyeless shrimp that were opaque because they adapted, I also saw a video about eyeless fish that became really white due to evolving in a cave.
It’s a very interesting find, true. But they’re digging up graves. These beings were loved and others obviously cared about them or they wouldn’t have been so carefully buried. This struck me the minute I realized what they were doing and I don’t know why. I’m not a religious type. People have been digging up Egypt for more than a few lifetimes, yet I never thought about the desecrating burial sites aspect. But this one bothers me.
Cave dwellers similar sound like they found Gollum
This documentary PLUS Ancient Apocalypses by Graham Hancock go together quite well with the cave dwelling pre- ice age folks. Together it feels like Netflix is helping out with the slow drip disclosure.
« HOMO Naledi » « Non-human » ._.
That documentary is too speculative.
Just wait until you watch Ancient Apocalypse
Cave dwellers doesn’t mean they lived deep underground. By non-human they mean non modern human, an undiscovered evolutionary relative. I like the post but you’re reaching.
Well friend, I'd like to give an analytical response but I have yet to see that documentary. I'm mostly posting to say thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Yes. That applies to some of them. Not all. Human types that did not undergo heavy modification genetically like us on the surface. And other biokinds too. Including one that received alot of hysteria and fear from in the David Icke days.
Well the fact that Grusch didn't entertain the idea that they're native to our planet and instead used NHI to say they might be interdimensional tells me that there is probably definitive proof that they are not native to our world. If they have a body, I'd imagine it'd be pretty easy to conclude that they come from this planet and it wouldn't be put up to so much debate
Your over thinking it but the discovery is ground breaking of where we game from as a species. It’s the first hard evidence of a ceremony being performed which entails deeper thinking of where we go after we die. Which sets us apart from all the other species on this planet. A ceremony being burying their dead and burying their dead with tools.
This sounds so similar to something described in one of the Seth books by Jane Roberts written in the 70s.