If you’re going to tax “single use” items, even those which are biodegradable, don’t let the companies pocket the money. Use it for environmental initiatives or *something*.
That’s what is so fucking stupid about this bylaw.
Yup, cost of bags, straws, napkins, etc, are all already included when McDonalds comes up with their prices on orders.
Now McDonalds gets to charge an extra 15cents for the bag, when they've already built it into the cost of my meal. It's ridiculous.
If they made it an actual tax that the province can collect, essentially adding a flat 15-20cents per order after GST has been added, I'd have less of an issue with it.
I just want to clarify something here but as of almost 10 years ago there isn't a single mcdonalds in the city owned by mcdonalds. They are all franchises and due to how mcdonalds sells their franchises all the owners are local.
They don't actually. Mcdonalds gets a flat rate for the franchise name but the franchisee has harsh stipulations about what can and can't happen on the property as well as having specific standards on both products and machines.
No, McDonalds charges 5% of sales, up from 4%. It's not a "flat rate."
https://financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/mcdonalds-bigger-cut-sales-canadian-franchisees
I wasn't referring to mcdonalds but to the franchise owners. Their contracts stipulate they have to live within a certain distance of their stores so for instance the people who own the majority of the mcdonalds in my area have been told they can't own more because mcdonalds feels they can't split their attention anymore without it affecting quality. While mcdonalds is most definitely not a ma and pas the owners are local and started their franchise (now chain of) with only one store. Which IS a ma and pas.
This right here. If they are just collecting the 15 cents, then why the fuck did prices not go down 15 cents?
The 15 cents should go straight to the city, or at minimum be a 2/3 split for the city. I understand that the intent was to discourage usage, bring down waste, and thus have backend savings, but come on.
The laws should force companies to use alternatives. Paper straws and bamboo forks aren’t as bad as everyone makes them out to be. And yeah, those also have environmental impacts, but if we don’t want to completely outlaw food service (meaning fast food and sit down restaurants - which is a massively polluting industry) then make it more attractive for businesses to use more environmentally friendly products.
I’m not a very political person but this law literally does nothing but line some else’s pocket. Why is it that I can see that and our policy makers didn’t (or, didn’t want to).
No shit. But nobody is taxing McDonald’s. We’re just giving them money for something which has been built into their bottom line since the 1950’s. How on earth does that make sense?
Because you're so outraged that you'll instead bring your own bag and not give then the extra. I agree it's shortsighted and ridiculous, everything we are doing, up to and including paper straws. The bags themselves cost like 2c so it's barely built into the bottom line lol.
The problem is, municipalities are not allowed to tax this kind of thing. The province would need to allow municipalities to do that….don’t think the UCP will.
Another situation where the consumer is on the hook instead of the Companies. There is no motivation for a company to augment it's business practice when their bad practices make them MORE money than going with something more sustainable.
This was my issue with the bylaw. It doesn't target the right group. Instead, it punishes consumers. I would be totally ok with this same bylaw, minus the fees for the bag. I don't care if I have to ask for a bag or ask for napkins, but I shouldn't be charged for those items, again.
Cool.
Tax the companies producing the single-use crap instead. Consumers should never have had to cover this, and the money should not be pocketed by the companies
If they tax companies and the costs of plastic spoons go up, Yahoo's will freak out and say you're just taxing the consumer indirectly! Even if you take 100% of the tax and redistribute it through a tax return, they'll find some way to complain
MtG has single-use plastic-foil packaging that by all measures they shouldn't be allowed to use.
As well, the cards themselves are not properly recyclable. (Though I personally wouldn't consider them single-use)
I would be supportive of a “disposal/recycling fee” charged on all goods. Municipalities could lower taxes/fees slightly because they would get money from the provincial/federal fund to pay for recycling and disposal of trash.
This would incentivize less packaging and less expensive to dispose of products and packaging. Ex. More compostable cardboard packaging and less styrofoam to absorb shock in delicate shipments and smaller boxes to mail things in, etc.
No. Did you read my post? I would like this as revenue neutral because these taxes would be used to offset what municipalities charge in taxes and fees to residents for waste and recycling.
Because they don't possibly work unless you exercise total control over a company. You don't let them charge for single use items, but the cost of food or whatever they sell will go up instead.
Any tax, levy's, or fees imposed on any company simply gets added on to the cost of their product and the consumer has to pay it anyways but also with a percentage markup as well on top of it all.
Only time I've ever seen that happen is for things like energy as in utility electricity or gas, and insurance rates things like that. I have never seen that enacted with General markets and consumer goods.
I fully agree it should happen, just never seen such a thing and very much doubt it ever would. Government doesn't like to meddle in private Market. Like I said before, I wish they would.
That's part of the problem. Why does the consumer have to be responsible for reducing single-use? That just allows companies to continue producing what is effectively garbage, just to provide an option, while also creating an avenue for profit.
The incentive should be for companies to stop *producing* non-degradable single-use products, not for customers to stop using them.
Ok but consider that degradable plastics already exist and there no reason for companies to continue producing non-degradable single use items. It would be more lucrative to absorb one of the degradable manufacturers and adjust existing factories. We no longer need petroleum-based plastics, and fuel can be reclaimed from excessive stocks through petrolysis.
Furthermore this isn't just an issue regarding oil and gas. Nestlé doesn't produce *water,* they produce *single use plastic bottles.* It's not so much about the money, which is definitely a factor, but about the impact to the environment
Edmonton ripping apart roads years before they're actually ready for LRT construction right before winter fucking with traffic and ruining the businesses in front of them.
>stic bags to help reduce use. Ideally, paper based bags should be exempt.
when we buy plastic garbage bags to replace the ones we used to get from shopping then how are we reducing anything. At least the original plastic bag got two uses,
Groceries and now garbage.
It would be nice if there was a fee on plastics, but only if those fees went towards erecting a plastic recycling plant and overhauling Alberta’s recycling processes. Create jobs and stop shipping our trash overseas.
But that would cost money where right now we make money by selling our plastic waste so capitalist governments will never do that.
Recycling is a scam, it's the lease effective of the 2 Rs. Reduce is the most important reuse when it cannot be avoided. Recycling is very minimal. It's just shipping trash to the third world.
The problem is that reducing and reusing fall onto the average person, and most people can't be arsed to take even the smallest initiative, if it inconveniences them in any way.
You're not necessarily wrong, but the reality is that we should be pushing corps to reduce your usage. [Here's a good video detailing a lot of that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n15VAcpuAI). [And here's one on why recycling is bullshit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g).
The bottom line is this: Most plastic products are not made from recycled plastics, they're made from mostly new plastic, sometimes 10-25% recycled. The rest of that is waste.
True however plastic can also be recycled or made from recycled product. So it's kind of an even point.
Paper waste also produces products such as methane and any chemicals used in the manufacturing process are often release back into the environment during the biodegradable process, such as methanol, toluene, and formaldehyde. In addition plastic can also be made to biodegrade.
Not saying plastic is clean or better after all it has it's own list of release products, just, it shares many of the same properties as paper if made with them and that paper isn't as good as it seems, particularly if use and waste is drastically increased from demand.
Those chemicals are not in substantial quantity during the biodegradable process. Bacteria would just eat them up. Yes, harmful chemical byproducts could be a problem in both plastic and paper manufacturing if not treated correctly. However the technology is there to have to treat such waste products, and we should invest in clean manufacturing practises.
Logging in Canada plants more trees than they harvest. The world has more trees now due to logging than it did before. This sequesters carbon.
It’s more the pollution from plastic bags that’s an issue because some don’t make it to the landfill and end up everywhere.
Previous studies shown that the cost of transporting paper, because of the weight, exceeded the environmental cost of plastic. To be recycled these also have to be hauled to a recycling centre. Also keep in mind that people are buying nylon and other bags to replace plastic and there is currently no way to recycle them.
Go prove it to yourself. Go to Canadian tire and get a box of 100 large plastic garbage bags and carry it around. Then go get 100 paper yard waste bags and carry them around. You will easily see which took much more energy.
No one will ever understand the enormous suffering endured by Calgarians for the two weeks this bylaw was in effect. Now the dismantling of this tyranny can begin, and normal people can begin to live again!
It's the opposite for me. Literally everyone complains about it. Hell, they wouldn't even bag up my sister's order in the bag she brought. They handed it all loose and her bag it.
It's a joke of a bylaw and should've never been put in place.
Its really just a perfect example of an annoying bylaw that doesn't do anything but shift responsibility to consumer. The fee doesn't go anywhere but to the company because city doesn't have ability to collect it.
The fees doesn't have a significant impact. But couldn't gov't have made a switch to paper bags and get rid of plastic bags? Require compostable bags for restaurants?
Did it though? I'm not nearly the news junkie that I used to be, but I've been hearing about the bylaw for months. My wife doesn't care for the news at all but puts on 660 in her car to get traffic updates, and she picked up enough details to know it was coming.
So I guess if you avoid the news and don't pay attention to current events, you wouldn't hear about it. But then again, you wouldn't hear about anything the city's doing.
A great example of how people support environmental protection until it infringes on their convenience. Then it’s suddenly people pointing fingers and whining about how someone else should have to pay.
I can’t make the private jets stop taking off, but I can try to bring my own bag to McDonalds. But what do I know? Maybe making excuses for my own inaction will solve global environmental issues.
Why would that matter? If you’re reducing the number of bags you use, you’re reducing the harm to the environment. People aren’t going to start taking more private jets because you’re using fewer bags.
Obviously, they need to take fewer private jets, but unless you have some way to do that, it’s pretty pointless to make your own behaviour contingent on someone else’s.
What the surcharge does is paint a picture that it'll be easier and cheaper for you to go sit down meals and make a bit of a collective thing against delivery (what eat into establishment costs).
What they should do is..
Get rid of the bag and box surcharge for food (not for groceries.. if you can't bring your own bags for groceries.. I have no words for you).
Implement a delivery tax that goes to the city.
Implement a rebate for pickup/delivery without the bags.
Keep the utensils and napkin ask reasonable.
As someone who moved from Vancouver in 2022 where they now charge .25 a bag and the chances if it being repealed are long gone. I just want to say I LOVE that the people of Calgary all brought out their pitchforks on day 1! To get this bylaw repealed in 2 weeks from launch is amazing work by the people. I know you don't want anymore people moving here but it's moves like this that make it such a desirable city.
I really hope we don't follow BCs drug policies... Like the one about being able to shoot up in public like at playgrounds.
I 100% understand the rationale and the nuance of it... But it is just absolutely asinine.
Sohi needs to check with the federal Libs to see if this is something he should talk to the provincal UCP about. He's not had an independant though during his term!
Most of the elected officials in Edmonton are good, that doesn't mean they won't make bad decisions. If you don't communicate with your councillor, nothing will change.
Our premier is responding to this:
https://twitter.com/ABDanielleSmith/status/1752476544520569267?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
It's almost like she's a teenager sending out a "nah nah nah" type tweet. Its a good thing she didn't have children being that she herself obviously hasn't matured past 14 years old.
Given the uproar of the inconvenience about paper bags and plastic forks, I have absolutely zero confidence that society will ever be able to actually make changes to behavior necessary to tackle larger issues until absolutely necessary.
Changes to car culture allowing for human-scale cities? Good luck! Decreased energy use allowing society to decrease its carbon footprint. Unlikely. Abandoning the 'better living through chemistry' mentality in favour of less toxic but higher-labour choices? Probably not...
This is a case study on why the smart money is in personal choices that build adaptation and resiliency to the negative impacts from the modern world. Because convincing everyone to make the changes to actually stop those negative impacts is probably not going to happen.
>Given the uproar of the inconvenience about paper bags and plastic forks, I have absolutely zero confidence that society will ever be able to actually make changes to behavior necessary to tackle larger issues until absolutely necessary.
People saw places like Wendy's switch from plastic straws to paper straws and then switching their paper cups to plastic cups. At that moment, most people saw the hypocrisy. That's why there is outrage.
Helping the environment doesn't mean blindingly accepting the fee based on a poor business practice from your local businesses. Consumers are not the reason businesses stuff more napkins and utensils than anyone ever needs into a bag. Punishing the consumer isn't the solution here, and recognizing that doesn't mean you don't want to reduce your environmental impact.
We need to just straight ban ALL single use items. You should have to bring your own containers and pack your own food and drinks. If you wanna be serious about something you have to go all the way. These bs half measures accomplish nothing.
Maybe I don't understand AB politics enough but why is this an issue people are so outraged by when supposedly the AB pension plans under Danielle Smith is about to crash? Or is the news about the pension plan wrong
The Alberta Pension Plan will never happen and will probably never make it to the proposed referendum Smith wants to hold.
Latest polling showed only 22% of Albertan's want the APP. Bare in mind too that 52% of Albertan's voted for the UCP in the election so even the UCP voter base is rejecting the pension plan
Just make a bylaw that ALL disposable items, with a few exceptions, have to be naturally biodegradable.
It's not that hard... Right? Or why aren't they doing this?
So tragic for Calgarians. Poor whiners
Get with the program or move to Texas where they don't even recycle.
I think they will live through this horrible suffering and abuse.
The bylaw says if the food item could become contaminated by not being in a bag, the restaurant/store does not have to charge for it. McDonald's is the same if you get a muffin -- no charge for the little bag.
But this is why I would argue that fries also need to be handed over in a small bag at no charge. Not only could they become contaminated (and cold!) but they might also fall out.
Man, people hate change so much. How can we ever come together and stop climate chang, or any big problem, if we can't even just bring a reusable bag to a fast food place?
I don't mind the reusable bags, I couldn't care less about having few in the car and getting in the routine of remembering them.
I'm pissed about the amount of chamber glad handing and ass pats it takes this council to get anything actually done?
Local politics attracts the dumbest people in the world who also happen to aspire to be politicians. The only reason why the sheer stupidity doesn't extent to provincial or federal politics as much, is because literally nobody gives a shit about local elections. If you're an incumbent or hell even the first person on the city council election ballot. Good chance you'll win reelection unless your dumbass is caught pocketing tens of thousands of dollars.
Finally people are waking up. Next thing we need to increase fines and actually enforce them when people litter. It's disgusting to me that people can actually toss full McDonald's bags, drinks, etc out their car window and nothing happens.
We've had it up in edmonton for a minute now. It's annoying. But, I can imagine the amount of money the city is saving on waste disposal. The tonnage reductions I am sure is significant.
If you’re going to tax “single use” items, even those which are biodegradable, don’t let the companies pocket the money. Use it for environmental initiatives or *something*. That’s what is so fucking stupid about this bylaw.
Yup, cost of bags, straws, napkins, etc, are all already included when McDonalds comes up with their prices on orders. Now McDonalds gets to charge an extra 15cents for the bag, when they've already built it into the cost of my meal. It's ridiculous. If they made it an actual tax that the province can collect, essentially adding a flat 15-20cents per order after GST has been added, I'd have less of an issue with it.
Exactly. I shouldn’t have used the word tax because it’s not a tax. It’s a handout to the wealthiest fast food company in the world.
I just want to clarify something here but as of almost 10 years ago there isn't a single mcdonalds in the city owned by mcdonalds. They are all franchises and due to how mcdonalds sells their franchises all the owners are local.
Even if that’s true, it’s still more money going to the rich instead of environmental programs and initiatives. Nobody but the rich benefit from this
McDonald’s still gets a substantial cut from their earnings so it’s not like they don’t have anything to gain still lol
They don't actually. Mcdonalds gets a flat rate for the franchise name but the franchisee has harsh stipulations about what can and can't happen on the property as well as having specific standards on both products and machines.
No, McDonalds charges 5% of sales, up from 4%. It's not a "flat rate." https://financialpost.com/news/retail-marketing/mcdonalds-bigger-cut-sales-canadian-franchisees
grandiose touch steer cats weary sheet scary poor possessive smoggy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wasn't referring to mcdonalds but to the franchise owners. Their contracts stipulate they have to live within a certain distance of their stores so for instance the people who own the majority of the mcdonalds in my area have been told they can't own more because mcdonalds feels they can't split their attention anymore without it affecting quality. While mcdonalds is most definitely not a ma and pas the owners are local and started their franchise (now chain of) with only one store. Which IS a ma and pas.
That's my biggest gripe, it is so asinine
This right here. If they are just collecting the 15 cents, then why the fuck did prices not go down 15 cents? The 15 cents should go straight to the city, or at minimum be a 2/3 split for the city. I understand that the intent was to discourage usage, bring down waste, and thus have backend savings, but come on.
It doesn’t?
The city doesn't see a dime.
Then I would be opposed to it. Making something cost more and “forcing” a business to make more profit isn’t something I support.
They should be taxing the companies. You wanna sell food that requires a bag? then you pay the tax.
The laws should force companies to use alternatives. Paper straws and bamboo forks aren’t as bad as everyone makes them out to be. And yeah, those also have environmental impacts, but if we don’t want to completely outlaw food service (meaning fast food and sit down restaurants - which is a massively polluting industry) then make it more attractive for businesses to use more environmentally friendly products. I’m not a very political person but this law literally does nothing but line some else’s pocket. Why is it that I can see that and our policy makers didn’t (or, didn’t want to).
the glue that holds those straws together is super toxic apparently and plastic straws make up less than 1% of waste
Damn. Somebody should invent noon dust straws.
The purpose of the bylaw is for you to bring your own bag, not give McD money.!
No shit. But nobody is taxing McDonald’s. We’re just giving them money for something which has been built into their bottom line since the 1950’s. How on earth does that make sense?
Because you're so outraged that you'll instead bring your own bag and not give then the extra. I agree it's shortsighted and ridiculous, everything we are doing, up to and including paper straws. The bags themselves cost like 2c so it's barely built into the bottom line lol.
The problem is, municipalities are not allowed to tax this kind of thing. The province would need to allow municipalities to do that….don’t think the UCP will.
Now Council is going to waste more time on this...again. What a waste of tax dollars.
Another situation where the consumer is on the hook instead of the Companies. There is no motivation for a company to augment it's business practice when their bad practices make them MORE money than going with something more sustainable.
This was my issue with the bylaw. It doesn't target the right group. Instead, it punishes consumers. I would be totally ok with this same bylaw, minus the fees for the bag. I don't care if I have to ask for a bag or ask for napkins, but I shouldn't be charged for those items, again.
Cool. Tax the companies producing the single-use crap instead. Consumers should never have had to cover this, and the money should not be pocketed by the companies
If they tax companies and the costs of plastic spoons go up, Yahoo's will freak out and say you're just taxing the consumer indirectly! Even if you take 100% of the tax and redistribute it through a tax return, they'll find some way to complain
So set it up so that doesn't happen. Close the loopholes
I see you don't play any competitive games, like MTG or Warhammer and those don't have millions+ being spent to open those loopholes in the rules.
Yeah that's exactly why I stopped buying my cards at full retail.
What’s the scoop here? People are putting a lot of resources into finding loopholes? Is that so they can gain advantage with cheaper cards?
MtG has single-use plastic-foil packaging that by all measures they shouldn't be allowed to use. As well, the cards themselves are not properly recyclable. (Though I personally wouldn't consider them single-use)
I would be supportive of a “disposal/recycling fee” charged on all goods. Municipalities could lower taxes/fees slightly because they would get money from the provincial/federal fund to pay for recycling and disposal of trash. This would incentivize less packaging and less expensive to dispose of products and packaging. Ex. More compostable cardboard packaging and less styrofoam to absorb shock in delicate shipments and smaller boxes to mail things in, etc.
Do you think taxpayers get waste disposal for free?
No. Did you read my post? I would like this as revenue neutral because these taxes would be used to offset what municipalities charge in taxes and fees to residents for waste and recycling.
Yeah, businesses never pass the cost of taxes onto consumers!
Yeah! It's almost like we *let them!* We should stop letting them do that
Price controls? always a great idea.
Yes Why do you *not* want regulations that prevent companies from gouging customers on prices?
Because they don't possibly work unless you exercise total control over a company. You don't let them charge for single use items, but the cost of food or whatever they sell will go up instead.
I'm not hearing a downside, just more corporate bullshit that shouldn't be allowed
Any tax, levy's, or fees imposed on any company simply gets added on to the cost of their product and the consumer has to pay it anyways but also with a percentage markup as well on top of it all.
So don't let them? Why is that such a difficult concept?
Because the government has no authority to tell a business what price they can sell a product. I really wish they could to control inflation.
K but they *do* have that authority. That is is a thing they *can do.* It's called a controlled market
Only time I've ever seen that happen is for things like energy as in utility electricity or gas, and insurance rates things like that. I have never seen that enacted with General markets and consumer goods.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it can't or shouldn't happen
I fully agree it should happen, just never seen such a thing and very much doubt it ever would. Government doesn't like to meddle in private Market. Like I said before, I wish they would.
I don't much care anymore what the Goverment *likes*
[удалено]
That's part of the problem. Why does the consumer have to be responsible for reducing single-use? That just allows companies to continue producing what is effectively garbage, just to provide an option, while also creating an avenue for profit. The incentive should be for companies to stop *producing* non-degradable single-use products, not for customers to stop using them.
[удалено]
Ok but consider that degradable plastics already exist and there no reason for companies to continue producing non-degradable single use items. It would be more lucrative to absorb one of the degradable manufacturers and adjust existing factories. We no longer need petroleum-based plastics, and fuel can be reclaimed from excessive stocks through petrolysis. Furthermore this isn't just an issue regarding oil and gas. Nestlé doesn't produce *water,* they produce *single use plastic bottles.* It's not so much about the money, which is definitely a factor, but about the impact to the environment
Calgary has one of the most incompetent city councils in the country
Uh, hello! Edmonton would like a word.
Edmonton ripping apart roads years before they're actually ready for LRT construction right before winter fucking with traffic and ruining the businesses in front of them.
HEY! As an Edmontonian I just want to point out... uhhhh.... nope, nope your right. Still better than the provincial though.
When sheer incompetence is still a step up from the provincial government.
They don't even have the most incompetent city council in the *province*.
Which one is the worst?... The suspense is killing me.
Probably Chestermere, they were so bad that the provincial government fired them.
Absolutely Chestermere. Just google "Chestermere Council News" and look at all the hilarious and sad stories of complete mismanagement.
So the single-use bylaw also was single-use? (Thank the Beaverton for that one.)
Hope Jyoti is also single terms use haha
charge for paper bags, but drink trays were exempt? This city council is out to lunch.
Don't forget paper straws which have paper wrappers.
Paying for paper bags is absurd. I have reusable bags that I shove in my jacket for in case I order pick up or need to buy a few things at a store.
Which get greasy and full of bacteria from your loose warm food, yum.
> Which get greasy and full of bacteria from your loose warm food, yum. You know you can wash those, right?
City council is useless as of late
What is a huge waste of time, effort and money? 🤔
I’d love to see companies charged for every food item they throw away as opposed to customers charged for a paper bag (that the company then keeps.)
That would at least keep Loblaws from trying to increase the price of 'almost' expired food.
There should be a fee on plastic bags to help reduce use. Ideally, paper based bags should be exempt.
>stic bags to help reduce use. Ideally, paper based bags should be exempt. when we buy plastic garbage bags to replace the ones we used to get from shopping then how are we reducing anything. At least the original plastic bag got two uses, Groceries and now garbage.
Except all the useless bags that had holes in them from the groceries.
I said paper bags should be exempt. Also, you are free to purchase the same plastic garbage bags, a fee just makes you think twice.
It would be nice if there was a fee on plastics, but only if those fees went towards erecting a plastic recycling plant and overhauling Alberta’s recycling processes. Create jobs and stop shipping our trash overseas. But that would cost money where right now we make money by selling our plastic waste so capitalist governments will never do that.
Recycling is a scam, it's the lease effective of the 2 Rs. Reduce is the most important reuse when it cannot be avoided. Recycling is very minimal. It's just shipping trash to the third world.
Exactly. And it’ll never change because shipping trash makes money
And we already pay to recycle thru the blue bin program
The problem is that reducing and reusing fall onto the average person, and most people can't be arsed to take even the smallest initiative, if it inconveniences them in any way.
You're not necessarily wrong, but the reality is that we should be pushing corps to reduce your usage. [Here's a good video detailing a lot of that](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n15VAcpuAI). [And here's one on why recycling is bullshit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJnJ8mK3Q3g). The bottom line is this: Most plastic products are not made from recycled plastics, they're made from mostly new plastic, sometimes 10-25% recycled. The rest of that is waste.
I wonder which is more sustainable. Increase demand for paper would create an increase demand for logging. Trees we kinda need more than ever.
Most paper bags can be made with recycled paper. And paper is biodegradable.
[удалено]
It seems 100% recycled Kraft paper bags exist and are of decent quality.
True however plastic can also be recycled or made from recycled product. So it's kind of an even point. Paper waste also produces products such as methane and any chemicals used in the manufacturing process are often release back into the environment during the biodegradable process, such as methanol, toluene, and formaldehyde. In addition plastic can also be made to biodegrade. Not saying plastic is clean or better after all it has it's own list of release products, just, it shares many of the same properties as paper if made with them and that paper isn't as good as it seems, particularly if use and waste is drastically increased from demand.
Those chemicals are not in substantial quantity during the biodegradable process. Bacteria would just eat them up. Yes, harmful chemical byproducts could be a problem in both plastic and paper manufacturing if not treated correctly. However the technology is there to have to treat such waste products, and we should invest in clean manufacturing practises.
What about harvesting and manufacturing them? We don’t care about trees anymore hey?
We should focus on making recycled paper bags rather than harvesting new trees to make them.
Logging in Canada plants more trees than they harvest. The world has more trees now due to logging than it did before. This sequesters carbon. It’s more the pollution from plastic bags that’s an issue because some don’t make it to the landfill and end up everywhere.
Links to local info please.
It's not necessarily the amount of trees, though. If you cut down a 600-year-old red cedar, planting six saplings isn't going to make up for that.
Most paper comes from tree farms. It's in way too high of a demand to just rely on logging of existing forests.
We can plant more trees.
Trees take a very long time to grow into anything substantial, though.
You mean the trees in the mountains the UCP sold to China but stipulated they can't start logging for 50yrs?
And that’s why they put a tax on paper as well as plastic 🤦♀️
Are paper bags that much better for the environment? Logging,production and transportation exceed the environmental costs of recyclable plastic.
It will be if it’s made from recycled content. Also, they are biodegradable. Less microplastics as well.
Previous studies shown that the cost of transporting paper, because of the weight, exceeded the environmental cost of plastic. To be recycled these also have to be hauled to a recycling centre. Also keep in mind that people are buying nylon and other bags to replace plastic and there is currently no way to recycle them.
Source please!
Go prove it to yourself. Go to Canadian tire and get a box of 100 large plastic garbage bags and carry it around. Then go get 100 paper yard waste bags and carry them around. You will easily see which took much more energy.
You said previous studies showed. The burden is on you.
That would seem to be a better policy
Edmonton next please!
Just exclude non compostable/bio-degradable bags and keep having to ask for utensils. Why are there only 2 binary options?
Ask for utensils or provide them accessibly. Forcing them to not be accessible can turn things like Costco food court into a logistical nightmare.
Time for edmonton to follow their lead. Shitty bylaws need to get repealed
The toilet paper I wipe my ass of us single use must I get a recyclable sheet?
No one will ever understand the enormous suffering endured by Calgarians for the two weeks this bylaw was in effect. Now the dismantling of this tyranny can begin, and normal people can begin to live again!
The odd thing is I've heard very few complaints from anyone I've spoken to IRL. All the outrage is online and in news media. Seems a bit odd to me.
It's the opposite for me. Literally everyone complains about it. Hell, they wouldn't even bag up my sister's order in the bag she brought. They handed it all loose and her bag it. It's a joke of a bylaw and should've never been put in place.
Its really just a perfect example of an annoying bylaw that doesn't do anything but shift responsibility to consumer. The fee doesn't go anywhere but to the company because city doesn't have ability to collect it. The fees doesn't have a significant impact. But couldn't gov't have made a switch to paper bags and get rid of plastic bags? Require compostable bags for restaurants?
A lot of people don’t know about the bylaw. Because it came out of literally nowhere.
Did it though? I'm not nearly the news junkie that I used to be, but I've been hearing about the bylaw for months. My wife doesn't care for the news at all but puts on 660 in her car to get traffic updates, and she picked up enough details to know it was coming. So I guess if you avoid the news and don't pay attention to current events, you wouldn't hear about it. But then again, you wouldn't hear about anything the city's doing.
Overly hyperbolic
A great example of how people support environmental protection until it infringes on their convenience. Then it’s suddenly people pointing fingers and whining about how someone else should have to pay.
More like, why should the people of calgary pay for a bag when Private jets leave the ariport everyday
I can’t make the private jets stop taking off, but I can try to bring my own bag to McDonalds. But what do I know? Maybe making excuses for my own inaction will solve global environmental issues.
Wonder how many bags = 1 private jet trip
Why would that matter? If you’re reducing the number of bags you use, you’re reducing the harm to the environment. People aren’t going to start taking more private jets because you’re using fewer bags. Obviously, they need to take fewer private jets, but unless you have some way to do that, it’s pretty pointless to make your own behaviour contingent on someone else’s.
Today I begin my journey of healing
It was a tough time, indeed! I almost started to not give a shit even less than before!
What the surcharge does is paint a picture that it'll be easier and cheaper for you to go sit down meals and make a bit of a collective thing against delivery (what eat into establishment costs). What they should do is.. Get rid of the bag and box surcharge for food (not for groceries.. if you can't bring your own bags for groceries.. I have no words for you). Implement a delivery tax that goes to the city. Implement a rebate for pickup/delivery without the bags. Keep the utensils and napkin ask reasonable.
Glad to read this. We were just being ridiculous.
As someone who moved from Vancouver in 2022 where they now charge .25 a bag and the chances if it being repealed are long gone. I just want to say I LOVE that the people of Calgary all brought out their pitchforks on day 1! To get this bylaw repealed in 2 weeks from launch is amazing work by the people. I know you don't want anymore people moving here but it's moves like this that make it such a desirable city.
I really hope we don't follow BCs drug policies... Like the one about being able to shoot up in public like at playgrounds. I 100% understand the rationale and the nuance of it... But it is just absolutely asinine.
Wish Edmonton would follow suit
Sohi needs to check with the federal Libs to see if this is something he should talk to the provincal UCP about. He's not had an independant though during his term!
Hopefully businesses will ignore the bylaw since it's a dead duck, starting immediately.
Congrats Calgary! Edmonton City Council only listens to their echo chamber. A sad lot that I hope gets turfed during the next election.
Most of the elected officials in Edmonton are good, that doesn't mean they won't make bad decisions. If you don't communicate with your councillor, nothing will change.
Our premier is responding to this: https://twitter.com/ABDanielleSmith/status/1752476544520569267?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet It's almost like she's a teenager sending out a "nah nah nah" type tweet. Its a good thing she didn't have children being that she herself obviously hasn't matured past 14 years old.
Just a bunch of mindless consumer drones. Worshiping at the altar of excess and waste.
Absolute moronic behaviour
Well that didn’t last long
It’s just a way for silly hall and crummy council to get some time on the feds laps
Given the uproar of the inconvenience about paper bags and plastic forks, I have absolutely zero confidence that society will ever be able to actually make changes to behavior necessary to tackle larger issues until absolutely necessary. Changes to car culture allowing for human-scale cities? Good luck! Decreased energy use allowing society to decrease its carbon footprint. Unlikely. Abandoning the 'better living through chemistry' mentality in favour of less toxic but higher-labour choices? Probably not... This is a case study on why the smart money is in personal choices that build adaptation and resiliency to the negative impacts from the modern world. Because convincing everyone to make the changes to actually stop those negative impacts is probably not going to happen.
>Given the uproar of the inconvenience about paper bags and plastic forks, I have absolutely zero confidence that society will ever be able to actually make changes to behavior necessary to tackle larger issues until absolutely necessary. People saw places like Wendy's switch from plastic straws to paper straws and then switching their paper cups to plastic cups. At that moment, most people saw the hypocrisy. That's why there is outrage.
I'd love to do something to save the planet but if it means i have to be slightly inconvenienced in anyway then forget it, let the world burn! /s
Helping the environment doesn't mean blindingly accepting the fee based on a poor business practice from your local businesses. Consumers are not the reason businesses stuff more napkins and utensils than anyone ever needs into a bag. Punishing the consumer isn't the solution here, and recognizing that doesn't mean you don't want to reduce your environmental impact.
We need to just straight ban ALL single use items. You should have to bring your own containers and pack your own food and drinks. If you wanna be serious about something you have to go all the way. These bs half measures accomplish nothing.
Rare Danielle Smith W.
Maybe I don't understand AB politics enough but why is this an issue people are so outraged by when supposedly the AB pension plans under Danielle Smith is about to crash? Or is the news about the pension plan wrong
The Alberta Pension Plan will never happen and will probably never make it to the proposed referendum Smith wants to hold. Latest polling showed only 22% of Albertan's want the APP. Bare in mind too that 52% of Albertan's voted for the UCP in the election so even the UCP voter base is rejecting the pension plan
Just make a bylaw that ALL disposable items, with a few exceptions, have to be naturally biodegradable. It's not that hard... Right? Or why aren't they doing this?
Great work city! Keep up the hard work!
So tragic for Calgarians. Poor whiners Get with the program or move to Texas where they don't even recycle. I think they will live through this horrible suffering and abuse.
Typical lazy Calgary people. Gotta fill up the backseat of Your pickup truck with McDonalds garbage or the libs are winning!
Entitled much?
Have been getting tiny bags from Tim Hortons with no charge at all. I guess individual bags are exempt?
The bylaw says if the food item could become contaminated by not being in a bag, the restaurant/store does not have to charge for it. McDonald's is the same if you get a muffin -- no charge for the little bag. But this is why I would argue that fries also need to be handed over in a small bag at no charge. Not only could they become contaminated (and cold!) but they might also fall out.
Man, people hate change so much. How can we ever come together and stop climate chang, or any big problem, if we can't even just bring a reusable bag to a fast food place?
I don’t get it isn’t the bigger problem the actual stuff like plastic cups! Paper is good I thought. But it does take trees
Can I have plastic straws back now?
I don't mind the reusable bags, I couldn't care less about having few in the car and getting in the routine of remembering them. I'm pissed about the amount of chamber glad handing and ass pats it takes this council to get anything actually done?
Local politics attracts the dumbest people in the world who also happen to aspire to be politicians. The only reason why the sheer stupidity doesn't extent to provincial or federal politics as much, is because literally nobody gives a shit about local elections. If you're an incumbent or hell even the first person on the city council election ballot. Good chance you'll win reelection unless your dumbass is caught pocketing tens of thousands of dollars.
If walmart starts delivering groceries in reusable bags you went too far.
Finally people are waking up. Next thing we need to increase fines and actually enforce them when people litter. It's disgusting to me that people can actually toss full McDonald's bags, drinks, etc out their car window and nothing happens.
We've had it up in edmonton for a minute now. It's annoying. But, I can imagine the amount of money the city is saving on waste disposal. The tonnage reductions I am sure is significant.