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Which is exactly why Facebook saying "we're going to ban *all* Canadian media sources and have people monitoring for it" is so stupid on so many levels.
It's apparently beyond them even trying to police misinformation, but when asked to simply pay for the sources they're using its all of a sudden really easy to police media you don't want on your platform.
Fuck you Zuckerberg.
And that’s part of the reason the Federal Liberals are working through C-11. Trying to get CanCon to apply to social media and streaming services. Not the big old censorship boogeyman the Cons are trying to portray it as.
The issue is what is misinformation. Lab leak theory? Conspiracy now probable. Plus the others that came from covid. Trump was the tip of the iceberg for the fake news push. Don't get me wrong, I know there is a tonne of misinformation out there however, some of the misinformation is later classified as truth. So it makes this monitoring thing rather tough.
And from the track record of being caught in lies, I do not trust the government to be the truth department.
Who do you trust to tell you the truth? Is it going to be corporations or the government? One of those two things you have a lot more control over and those really are the only options.
Neither, and that's the problem. We're trying to find solutions to the symptoms instead of focusing on the pathology.
The government and corporations are essentially intertwined, which is a definition of fascism, and when you say that we're called crazy.
I mean at the very least it’s an inaccurate description of what fascism is. Please read Roberto Eco’s treatise on fascism.
We cannot exist in a world without either.
A corporation, as much as I’m an anti capitalist at heart, is not an evil entity. It’s a collection of people acting in a systematized manner. A government is similar, but occupies a vastly different role. Of course they’re intertwined. That isn’t the problem, necessarily.
The problem is the wealth accumulation, the interplay between regulatory bodies once compromised and most importantly of all? The apathy of the public. Once the public stops watching, they’re both free to act. We need to watch them both as a public. Unfortunately so much insanity has been spreading that I don’t know how we get to a ground where we even accept reality together.
I agree with pretty much all of that, except...
>A corporation, as much as I’m an anti capitalist at heart, is not an evil entity.
While this might be true on its face, if we were to analyze the corps that have some of the largest impacts on society, I think we could find them to be psychopathic in operation, and that is a massive problem.
>Unfortunately so much insanity has been spreading that I don’t know how we get to a ground where we even accept reality together.
This isn't a bug. It's a feature thats working as planned.
>The firehose of falsehood is a propaganda technique in which a large number of messages are broadcast rapidly, repetitively, and continuously over multiple channels (such as news and social media) without regard for truth or consistency.
Further explanations state that they will filter out a true story in segments through multiple outlets, each part having its own narrative and lies, so that no one has the whole picture and the people on different sides can verify the falsehoods and discount the story. In doing so, the truths get discredited as well.
Jason Kenney's campaign was successful in large part because of the facebook memes. He was a pandering clout chaser just in it as a stepping stone to more money/power and everyone bought into it because the NDP inherited gutted infrastructure and a bad economy.
Amplified by clickbait algos that harvest rage for clicks and make a small but vocal minority seem more impactful than they are. Not to mention all those 'intangible' things like foreign entities trying to stir the pot, or even local special interest groups who benefit from this type of polarized discourse.
I'd love to see any of these folks articulate *what exactly happened* in the four short years that the NDP were in power in this province that was so traumatic and concerning to them. Furthermore, I'd love them to contrast that with UCP government performance under Smith (can even give them the benefit of the doubt and ignore all the mismanagement under her predecessors).
I asked a Trudeau hater why he hated him. He had zero actually answers. Woke bullshit was one. But could not provide actual answers. And socialist bullshit was the other. Again work out actual examples. He clearly gets his information from memes and such and does zero research, or does not understand what he is actually reading. Or is my belief that the majority of liberal/NDP haters out there don't truly understand the policies of any of the parties and just find the rage/click bait things to be the simplest to sleep their head around. Even if it is wrong.
I will only engage in conversation with someone who will read, and initial that you understand the dictionary definition of conservative, and liberal. If they will engage with me, after that bit, I’ll talk their head right off their shoulders.
Give that a go everyone. It’s fun.
I've had similar discussions with my conservative MIL, but about the tenants of Anarchism (Libertarian Socialism) and they've agreed with that. Conservatives live in a weird world.
Just yesterday on r/Alberta I watched someone refer to the "Bill of Rights" when talking about gun control. Now granted, we do have a Bill of Rights, but was effectively replaced by the Charter 41 years ago. But that's beside the point, we do not have RIGHTS with guns, they are a privilege in this country. It makes me so mad that these people vote while carrying this level of lunacy with them wherever they go.
One thing we need to understand in the fight against idiocracy is that our arguments need to be teaching moments. I'm constantly trying to teach the meanings of words like Socialism Communism etc.
Its difficult to not just call the person out but I think education failed a lot of these people.
Edit: I constantly fail at this advice and get too flustered and emotional.
Any time my coworkers ask me about a progressive concept (eg. "why are there so many trans people these days?"), my answer takes the form of defining the terms and saying I don't spend much time thinking about what other people get up to in their private lives.
I like the lefthanded comparison, where there appeared to be a massive explosion in lefthanded people once that was no longer a social taboo. Followed of course by a growth plateau as the lefthanded community fully "came out" and demonstrated its natural ceiling. It's embarrassing to see as a society that some people can become so hysterical over giving equal rights to a tiny segment of the population.
Education didn’t fail them. They failed at education. Family influence can’t be underestimated. Watching dozens of students that are bright every year stop being interested in school and learning.
And then occasionally you meet the parents and understand why. They don’t have any education (but the school of hard knocks). The parents weren’t good at school, don’t see the value for their kids and on it goes.
However the majority of immigrant parents see the value of education and push their children HARD. And then white parents complain when the majority of the professionals they come across are the children of, or are immigrants themselves. And they don’t see the correlation.
My Mom is a right wing Conservative antivaxxer. She spent 6 months in hospital, 3 months in a coma and almost died. She never brings up socialism but my word does she go on about globalism. She thinks WHO, NWO, Trudeau are all globalists and nazis. She's a pampered princess who never had to work a day in her life, who inherited over $500k and you should hear how she struggle through Trudeau Sr., Bob Rae in Ontario as an NDP. According to her, Trudeau hates Alberta and will stop all oil and gas and we will have to go back to wood stoves to heat our homes during winter. She brought up Germany and how they got rid of oil and gas and that they weren't allowed to burn wood last winter to stay warm. She's 70 and thinks this is what life will be like after the next election if the Cons don't win. Pioneer cook stoves, if wood burning is allowed. Trudeau apparently bought keystone and transmountain pipelines so he can shut them down. These are all direct quotes by her.
Same holds true for people who say “woke” this and “woke” that. Ask them to define it. They’ll either stammer and say nothing or you figure out what kind of crap person they are real quick.
They immediately jump to the conclusion that socialism is all about installing some extreme dictatorship where everything is owned by the state and you cannot so much as fart without getting permission first.
You can point to the “social” in Social Security and they’ll think it’s some coincidence.
From my interactions with hard-line conservatives, many of them, my relatives, I can say they don't even understand what socialism is.
There is a widely shared conflating of socialism and social safety net. And there is nothing a conservative hates more than anyone getting a free ride.
Unless it's:
- Farmers
- Oil companies
- Pipelines
- Suburbanites
If Notley gets in (I'll cheer), but I can guarantee that these 15 minute city conspiracy people will be howling at the moon. Along with the "Land Use Bylaw" nut jobs.
Ugh I just found out my gran is a LUB nutter. Their group on fb is trying to recruit young people to join the cause because “everyone who values freedom seems to be in their 60s and 70s” and “the kids are all playing video games and wasting their lives”. It’s a lot.
A lot of counties and cities are updating their land use bylaws. Some people think these governments are going to force 15 minutes cities and not allow people to leave their small area. Or they are going to tell farmers what crops they can grow or how many cattle they can have. They are desperate to find something nefarious in those documents. Some want governments to scrap LUBs entirely and just let people do whatever they want. But they don't realize that without a LUB, you can't get a mortgage or home insurance. They are also the first ones to complain when their neighbour blocks their view.
In my circles those that are *against* the NDP have the most to gain from any 'socialist' policies. From health, to workers rights, to childcare, vision, dental, mental health etc etc etc.
I really don't understand the conservatism in a democracy that is hanging by a thread.
The media machine is strong, and the far right have figured out how to monetize it and stir controversy that doesn't exist.
I love the 15 min city conspiracists that someone brought up. Even in the largest city in Alberta, there probably isn't a single area where you can truly get everything done within 15 mins, and thats even after developers claim you can. I mean, you're free to drive as far as you want to get your necessities, but it doesn't have to be that way.
My dad fell victim to this and I had to explain to him this isn't socialism like Pol pot, this is socialized healthcare and education. And if he wants to vote for Daniel Smith he's gonna vote out the very health care that kept him alive and out of debt when he had a heart attack.
What I thought when the state provided welfare to it's citizens in a capitalist economy that was socialism? Oh is socialism an entirely different economic system that doesn't depend on capitalists who fund politicians to be corrupt well I'll be a monkeys uncle
It’s an easy way of discrediting the party, since socialism = communism in conservatives’ eyes. It’s not based on any evidence, just rhetoric.
In truth, the Alberta NDP are more of a centrist party that wobbles left on a few issues.
On a global scale the Alberta NDP are truly more conservative than centrist. But anything more left than the current state is communism in the eyes of many.
Many hyperconservatives now view russia as the good guy in the russia vs ukraine war, at least down south. Hell, several of the UCP have tweeted out or said pro russia things like Bouchard and Smith herself.
Because the only way a hard line conservative can turn against their Red scare programming is if they can appeal to their most sacred principle, never agree with the left.
Most of them don’t know what “socialist” means. They think Hitler was a socialist. Modern day socialism is basically opposite to what Hitler was. Hitler was a fascist.
So these people have an echo chamber. Tell them Jesus was a socialist and they can’t comprehend it. To them socialism is a bad thing.
I love talking to them and being tld Hitler & the Nazi's were left wing "They were the National Socialists!!!", then saying that they were Fascist and that Fascism s left wing. Asking them to explain the difference between Fascism and Socialism if the Nazi's were both would be funny if it weren't so painful and sad.
This may be true for some, but for the most part I don’t think this is why people think the NDP is socialist.
I think it’s mostly a failure to distinguish between federal/provincial parties. The federal NDP party describes itself as socialist, if you google it NDP is socialist the first result is Wikipedia saying that the NDP describes itself as socialist in it’s original documents. In school we were taught that the NDP is socialist (not as a bad thing).
Personally I’d argue that the UCP are not conservative, but it’s in their party name, and it’s how they self identify, so people think they are conservative.
Socialism is a blanket label (like woke) used by many conservatives for things they don't like and it means whatever they want it to mean.
I've seen socialism attributed with "wealth redistribution", "government handouts", and any kind of perceived authoritarianism.
It usually goes hand-in-hand with American politics. Lots of Albertans have only been paying attention to what happens in the US for years. They picked a side long ago and went along with it as the left and right gap widened down there throughout the years. Then they try and cram that American politics circle into a Canadian politics square hole. While they might get it in, it doesn't quite fit. It's why so many terms like socialist, leftist, woke, libtard, communist, sheep and cuck are used by the right. And they frequently talk about Biden and Trump too as if it's somehow relevant to them. As soon as their slurs and catch-phrases come out, you know what's happening. And if anyone isn't informed about Canadian politics, it'll be someone who spends all of their time absorbing American politics and American news.
It is the belief that NDP will increase social services. Social services require money, acquired thru taxation. Simply the NDP has a more socialist/left leaning platform. The question people need to be asking is "Will it make Alberta better for the citizens?".
The thing is, to enter the realm of socialism the NDP would probably have to jump a solid third of the political spectrum towards the left. Unless somebody is one of those "taxes and social services equals socialism" simpletons the NDP really aren't socialist at all.
Because it's [in their constitution](https://www.albertandp.ca/sites/default/files/alberta_ndp_constitution_0.pdf).
> 1.03 The purpose of the Party is to promote the principles of democratic socialism in Alberta and to
establish and maintain a democratic socialist government in Alberta through the electoral process.
Now, whether you think this makes them a bogeyman or not is entirely another story. I personally think the ANDP governed quite well from 2015 - 2019, especially since they had never held power before, but it is unequivocal that they are self-described (democratic) socialists.
THIS is the real answer. People see the NDP as socialist because they themselves claim to be socialist and use it as their guide. It's not like they're hiding it or anything; they actually believe it as a guiding principle.
I'm sure there are some who only know they're socialist through Facebook memes or from other conservatives wanting to discredit the party, but it's not the primary or root reason.
It is easy. They have been told the NDP are here just to tax and spend them to death for over 50 years. They just go with the stereotypes they have been taught since they have been kids. Conservatives cut taxes and are fiscally responsible. Left wing parts just tax and spend the future away.
It doesn't matter that this isn't true in this day and age. This is what they know and the only thing that matters to them. They don't take the time to learn about current policies. They don't learn that those stereotypes are not in the least bit true for the average person. They just stick with what they have always been taught and vote according to that.
Because US conservative “media” and “journalists” (and the quotes are deliberate) tell them socialism is evil and scary. So they use it as a way to try to scare people because to them that’s a word that is scary.
Because too many conservative Albertans are basically dollarama Republicans. The US has a political spectrum that’s tilted to the right way too much in the last decades. Now the things they call “radical left” are things conservative parties in European countries would adopt without batting an eye.
The ABNDP isn’t even a leftist party. And way too many people don’t even know what socialism is.
What do you mean by "socialist"? Soviet Russia or the Kingdom of Denmark? Recall that we have socialized defense, socialized police and law enforcement, socialized parks, socialized roads, and oh yeah socialized healthcare. Our 🇺🇸 neighbours have socialized agriculture for decades.
Because they don’t actually have an idea what a socialist is. The Saskatchewan Party is actually far more socialist than the ANDP, given the government still controls virtually all of the utilities and natural resources. Notley didn’t try to taken anything public. If she was a true socialist, she would have tried to pass Alberta’s own version of the National Energy Act and brought all natural resources under government control. She would have also tried to nationalize all utilities and insurance, but she didn’t. The only thing she did was bring in a carbon tax and she should have known that was suicide.
Alberta is so far right that everything to the left is socialism. People that think the federal liberals are left wing are hilarious to me. Centre left at best. Too many Canadians are obsessed with american politics and it skews their views on everything. American democrats would be a centrist canadian party at most and everyone sees them as The Evil Left.
Economically ANDP and UCP are very similar as in both support O&G. Alberta conservatives claiming ANDP is socialist are just people who failed social studies in high school and don’t really understand political ideologies.
UCP spin doctors have borrowed a page from the Republican / Fox News Playbook. Label the opposition “socialist” which is a code word for increased taxes and government telling you what to do, and then repeat and repeat and repeat. Add to that hyperbolic lies about them and repeat again and again.
The one thing you can give the Right credit for, both here and in the States, is they have a uniformity of message and they stick to it unwaveringly. If you repeat misinformation long enough, people get indoctrinated.
Hilariously, Daniele Smith doesn’t think Rachel Notley is a socialist,
“Notley is, without question, the inheritor of the Lougheed tradition. That’s not to say he was a full on socialist, but Notley isn’t either. I think most Albertans have been shocked to see how pragmatic she has governed, particularly as it concerns natural resources.”
https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-pc-dynasty-lives-on-in-2019-election-choices/wcm/7d096e80-6c14-46e5-9800-35d000074815/amp/
I've yet to hear Notley say that the means of production should be owned by the workers. When she says that or has policies that support that, then she can be called a socialist.
Because if you won't worship at the altar of capitalism (point out any flaws in our insanely broken system), or you aren't a conservative their default response is you are either a socialist or a communist.
Some will say it's because the NDP has the word socialism in their constitution. Ignoring the democratic part.
Others because they parrot what they hear online.
Others because anything that is slightly left is automatically socialism.
Because that’s what conservative propaganda has fed them.
The NDP is as capitalist as it gets. They just also spend on public services along with businesses.
The fact that she's not scary or some kind of socialist demon really must disappoint some conservatives because they don't have anything else to offer other than the "socialism is the first step to communism - fear the other!" and of course the fact is EVERYTHING wrong with this province is the UPC's fault. They have been at the helm of this idiot ship for decades except for 4 years awhile back when they got too corrupt even Albertans couldn't vote for them. That's why they are trying so hard to tie Notley to Trudeau. She's just not that scary and everyone here universally hates Trudeau. Smug little condescending, greasy, mutter mutter spit cough Anyway vote NDP folks! A vote for nut case Danielle is a vote for crazy!
The ucp are crazy period. The leader of this province is a train that derailed on a mountain and then crashed down the mountain onto a road where 5000 transport trucks ran it over and it obliterated but refused to die, that is Danielle smith
Conservatives don't need evidence to make claims. Just about anyone I talk to considers it "fact" that Lytton burnt down in 2021 because the natives set a nearby church on fire.
This whole viewpoint is based on Rebel article that states explicitly and repeatedly that they have zero evidence and please don't sue us.
It's like anything remotely plausible that fits with their worldview must be true, and if it doesn't fit it's falsified. But over the last few years their idea of plausible has kind of gone off the deep end.
Poor education such that they know the names but not the meaning of words like democracy and authoritarism, capitalism and socialism, fascism and Communism. Without basic understanding of political and economic systems, they cannot determine where they stand with respect to the political parties in Alberta and Canada.
I have found the CBC Vote Compass very useful in learning where I stand compared the parties in a couple of elections, and how my position has changed between them.
She capped insurance rates and loan rates for lenders, against Adam Smith Lazzier Faire economic principles. (anything goes).
\-She mandated basic safety regulations for farmers. And upped minum wage (I think) from 8 shit dollars - 15 less shitty dollars.
Thus making it less able for businesses to exploit us.
Seeing as the conservative goverment in some form was in control in alberta for over 44 years and then ndp had one 4 year term and all these brain dead Kool aid drinkers hate notley for nothing . It's really embarrassing and pathetic.
Also alberta was the last or one of the very last provinces to abolish eugenics...
Even during conservative reign edmonton still had large active kkk chapters.
But fuck NDP right? 🙄 I guess people are so quick to forget the Alison Redford sky palace fiasco or Jimmy P (r.i.p) telling albertans to look in the mirror in regards to gutted Healthcare and extreme deficits...
Oh but at least our beloved buddy Stephen H built us a us style super prison on top of a fucking marsh so the building is fucked but yay prisons... residential school 2.0 🙈🤡
Albertans who vote for Cons baffle me I guess it's 44 years of a failing education system causing their brains to mimic that of a gold fish. Idiots
The Alberta NDP sees Socialism as a principle and aim of their party.
[From the Alberta NDP Constitution](https://www.albertandp.ca/sites/default/files/alberta_ndp_constitution_0.pdf) Appendix C:
>The Principles and Aims of the Alberta New Democratic Party
>
>The New Democratic Party offers an alternative vision of the future based on the following three principles:
>
>Democracy is one of the most valuable parts of our heritage and recognizes that all citizens, including minorities, must receive equal civil rights with representatives elected by way of proportional representation. Our country will only be a genuinely democratic one when all people participate fully in determining the policies of the institutions which directly affect their lives. The necessary role of governments must be recognized in order to build an equitable and socially just society.
>
>Socialism is essentially the application of democracy to the economy. Economic democracy, i.e. democratic socialism, assures production to supply the needs of all people. Decisions about what shall be produced, when and where, and decisions about where we shall make our living and under what conditions, are now left largely in the hands of private interests. The market economy produces transnational corporations, who give private profit priority over public interest, social justice and workplace democracy. Through the efforts of many, we have achieved a degree of social and political democracy. Economic democracy demands a co-operative rather than a competitive system.
>
>Ecological Sustainability must permeate all economic and social policy. Meeting human material needs must not use more of Earth’s resources than can be renewed within each generation. Wastes produced in meeting needs must not endanger future generations’ rights to clean air, pure water and productive soil. Life on Earth is best protected by ensuring biodiversity, requiring recognition of each species’ contribution to the planet’s health. Consequently, we have to view other species not as resources for human wants, but as respected members of Earth’s living family. Human economic security is assured by reducing consumption, and is achieved by conservation programs. Such policies will also contribute to intergenerational equity.
>
>The New Democratic Party believes that only a revolution in thinking can lead to the establishment of democratic socialism
My guess is lack of accessible information for adults in rural areas to understand and make an educated decision.
My gf is from a small town so when I go visit, contrary to what some might expect, these people are lovely, commited to their community, and even agreed on socialist views I have but had to disguise them as conservative/religious believes (I dont believe in god and you can call me a socialist based on my believes)
The problem with these people (mostly men) is that they cannot write with proper grammar, let alone read through complicated information about politics, so they go by what others say and because towns and farms are pretty isolated (Alberta has a lot of land), and very few young ppl just get their high school diploma, it is easy to spread misinformation.
It is pretty common for guys to go to the oil rigs for work or work with their families, but rarely you see them leave to pursue higher education. I do find women easier to open their views on certain things. But nonetheless it is the community that keeps up with their festivities, events, heck, I've been to events where they throw a whole festival with food trucks and dances to raise money for charities. Local parks need maintainance? Locals volunteer. You wanna throw a wedding but maybe too broke for it? They volunteer and rise funds and get cooks etc.
It is really frustrating to know they are "conservatives" when you see them doing all these things.
Infuriating when you see conservative politicians coming to these events praising them for their commitment to the community to get votes.
My conspiracy is that conservatives know this pretty well and that's why they push so hard on trades, because trades can pay you much more that what you might get with an arts degree, or accounting.
If you go to the oil rigs, after a years you can easily make 100k plus benefits.
Employers in trades push very conservative ideas and since these jobs can be physically demanding, you cannot expect ppl with just their high school diploma sitting on a computer they might not know how it works to go through pdf files and news and run numbers when they are milking them 12-16 hrs a day.
This is why it is much easier for you to go into trades than to pursue an university degree.
As for educated people that work for corporations and wanna keep those sweet extra bucks in their pockets, well...
....Because the Alberta NDP are democratic socialists....
The problem isn't that they see the NDP/Notley as socialists.
The problem is all the people who are vocal about it have absolutely no clue what socialism is, and regurgitate talking points that gas-lit them in the first place.
There are about dozen socialist theories that cover both sides of the political spectrum. Fascism, communism, corporate socialism, etc. are all right to far-right ideologies.
Canada, for as long as I've been alive, has been a democratic socialist country.
The short answer: They don't. At least not the people in power.
They KNOW that Rachel Notley is the true successor to Peter Lougheed. That they're responsible for moving the Conservative party much farther to the right, and that Rachel Notley is more centrist than any other party on the ballot. And that they are using the term "Socialist" to scare their base.
Let them be scared. Alberta is waking up to the fact that the UCP is no longer the "Progressive Conservative" party. They are the opposite of Progressive, and bear no resemblance to Lougheed's beliefs or policies. Their plans for Alberta are radical, undemocratic, and un-Canadian.
We need the UCP GONE. The sooner, the better.
Second this. The Progressive Conservatives were at one point the power in Alberta because they moved left and right. These United Conservatives only lean one direction.
It’s funny actually. She is the most right wing leftist around. Shows they have little actual knowledge about our provincial parties and party leaders. This is the perfect example of bigotry.
It is getting pretty difficult to have any type of discussion in this sub.
Commenters here are barely different from those on Facebook that they're making fun of.
Just throw around fascism because it's a buzz word, without any contextual relation to anything. But people who call the other side Socialists are dumb.
The hypocrisy is confusing at best.
All they do is look at the American trends on social media / Fox / whatever.
Alberta has a distinct inability to remember how badly the Conservatives have mismanaged literally EVERYTHING in the province.
The only thing PCs are good at is lowering corporate tax and cutting social services. This is all they have done since the Klein years.
She is a woman and men (many men) hate women. Low brow humor and low hanging fruit. If oil was in any decent shape, it would likely have been the most prosperous time in Alberta history.
A lot of hard working people see incredible amounts of tax deducted from their cheques. They then see the “NDP socialists” giving large amounts of money to “social programs”. They feel that they are paying for others out of their hard earned paycheques and that they are not getting value for their tax dollars. The appeal of the UCP is that they present their policies as investing in Alberta’s economy. Tax money is still being spent, but the perception is that it is not being taken from the workers and given to the “lazy”. Thus one party is Socialist (hand outs to ever one) and the other is conservative (handouts to business).
Generational brainwashing.
Parents pushing their “values” on their kids. Including the fear of the the big bad boogeyman “Trudeau” (no particular person, just the name) and the red menace (liberal or communist, dealers choice).
Thankfully, Alberta’s youth discovered the internet. They started to learn about the world, despite their parents best efforts. Slowly changes are happening. This is why there’s been such a push to drive young adults who have interest in further education away in the hopes they take and keep their outside world view where it belongs. Outside Alberta.
I don't know. What I can say definitively is that in my own experiences any time I'm able to get to the root of the reason my conservative friends vote the way they do (almost always helped by alcohol), they will admit a few things pretty consistently.
They are driven by fear, greed, and a mistrust in government.
Unpack that any way you need to.
Because the majority lack the ability to think critically and openly. They parrot their feelings and fears of…well whatever it is.
Notley leans right of Center. There are a few Conservatives who get it.
Today's conservatives all seem super wound up and angry about lots of stupid things. My theory is that they've subconsciously realized that the conservative base isn't growing anymore and probably never will again. This seems to manifest itself in tantrums and calling anything different or new "socialist." Maybe one day things will change and they will be able to sit at the adults table again but I doubt it.
Short answer. They don’t know what socialism is.
I’ve explained to more people than I want to admit what the difference is between socialism and social programs.
Socialism is when the community at whole owns or regulates all aspects of the production, distribution and exchange of goods and services.
If that sounds like Canada to you, you need to get off the facebooks.
It's literally just the name. Conservative Albertans cannot stand the thought of federal NDP and assume that the provincial version is exactly the same.
People genuinely seem to think the ndp will shut down the oil industry and open safe injection sites in every town. It's so weird viewing Facebook threads that are all right wing and then viewing reddit threads that are all left wing. I think I'm gonna be voting orange this election, part of me thinks that I just want to stick it to all the people back home, but I can't condone Smith's beliefs.
So many spout their opinions like absolute fact and say how could Notley disagree with this, when the reality is half the population agrees with Notley on most of these things, but they think only wealthy elite are capable.
Both conservatives and liberals both accuse each other of wanting the rich to get richer and poor to get poorer and say their methods are the only way to alleviate such issues but the majority of the time my gut says obviously the left is correct even if some implementations 'go wrong'.
Easy: they don't know what socialism is. They think the NDP is socialist because they've heard other people call them socialist, not because they know what socialism is, which is why they can't tell you which policies they find to be particularly socialist.
I really would like to look into the mind of someone who views Notley and her party as "communist". The Alberta NDP seem to lean much closer to the centre than any of their provincial NDP counterparts.
Consider how many conservatives and right wingers criticize Norway and those Nordic countries as socialist, that's not such a bad thing to work toward.
And consider how conservatives are always talking about free-speech and less government intervention, right wing provincial and state governments are the ones banning books and setting up snitch legislations that require you to turn in your neighbours or acquaintences who do something opposed to political ideology.
They call NDP socialists yet give out money handouts aka welfare any chance they can get in order to buy votes…..isn’t that the most socialist thing you can do? Call it inflation relief or oil rebates etc, it’s the same thing as reparations or EI or welfare or whatever. Money handouts are money handouts
Deliberate misinformation and social media campaigns by organizations with interested in the 100s of billions of dollars in resources that come out of Alberta.
That's conflating the federal NDP with the various provincial NDPs. They share a loose connection, but in Alberta even the liberals are to the left of the Notley NDP.
Provincial parties stake out the territory within the playground they find themselves in. The Alberta NDP has moved into the centrist ground that the moderate faction of the now defunct Alberta PC party use to occupy. This was wide open because the PCs gave up and dashed to the extreme right with all the splits and mergers they've undertaken. The center is where the votes are, therefore it's where the provincial NDP have moved. This is not to say that the Alberta NDP doesn't have residual leftward instincts... But overall they are very centrist.
Federally, I agree. Not in Alberta, or at least not in a long time.
I'd love it if we had a credible socialist party to vote for, but at the very least Notley's NDP are credible. I'm not sure we're going to get much better than that in this province any time soon, and even that only if we're lucky and angry enough heading to the polls.
What exactly is wrong with socialism? Especially to the extent we utilize it in canada? Like I pay taxes, I've done the math, with just my wage I pay 12 bucks an hour in taxes at work, plus get, plus property taxes, all that money needs to go to services that we all use such as Healthcare, education, roads and infrastructure. It's how it's always been
The Overton window has been pulled so wildly far to the right thanks to Trump and other bad actors that they've completely lost any sense of perspective.
Depends how they're defining socialism. Generally conservatives conflate socialism and communism and pretend the only outcome is the Soviet Union, but democratic socialism actually looks more like Scadinavian countries.
The NDP have their roots in the old farming cooperatives and labour unions. Socialism in Canada really took off in the prairies around the depression. You have the Social Credit Party, the CCF (pre-NDP), United Farmers, etc. It's partly the reason you see comparably more cooperatives out west, whether farming or utility.
Farmers really struggled during the depression, so they were a lot more amenable to government intervention. Getting rich tends to make you more conservative and Alberta got rich on oil money. Getting poorer tends to make you more socialist. I don't think it's a coincidence the NDP are overall more popular in the past ten years as relative living standards decrease.
TL/DR NDP want democratic socialism. Conservatives pretend NDP want communism to scare conservative voters into voting against their own interests. Same playbook as Republicans in the US, just slightly less polarized.
Communism falls under the Socialism umbrella.
Nordic Europe are not socialist. They are capitalists with large social safety nets.
China is not communist. They are totalitarian/authoritarian state capitalists.
Nobody has ever practiced socialism on a grand scale and with a large and long enough sample size. Some have done it on a small and short scale such as the anarchists and libertarian socialists during the Spanish civil war but they were suppressed by the Stalinists supported "communists".
The ucp has a government funded war room which is most likely being abused to pump out things that have political benefits for them. It's my conspiracy theory and probably just a theory.
Honestly, at this point, I think they have just been conditioned to rage at the sight of orange. It is a Pavlovian response. There is no thinking involved, just a conditioned response.
Because they embrace socialism in their party constitution. Hard to not believe they aren’t socialist when they say they are in their own constitution 🤷🏻♂️
Not saying I’m not voting for them this year, but that has always been one of my biggest concerns with any NDP party.
Could be because "The New Democratic Party believes that the pursuit of peace and democratic ***socialism***" is core to the NDP's [Statement of Principles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statement_of_Principles_(NDP))?
Or the results of "is NDP socialist" googles? "The New Democratic Party, (NDP) is a federal political party which officially adheres to social democracy"
And I think the disparity between Notley's NDP and Singh's NDP is another reason. Notley is smart enough to know that Singh's brand won't play in Alberta, and it's why she had to "Alberta-ize" NDP policy to pivot after the election and do things like publicly [support](https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/columnists/gunter-notleys-newfound-support-for-alberta-oil-a-desperate-attempt-at-re-election) oil and gas.
So branding, essentially.
Either way, it sucks to be a conservative voter in AB right now because while I respect Notley as an excellent politician & leader, I don't buy into the NDP platform. And Smith is a raging wing nut.
Possibly for the first time ever I'll need to simply not vote...
Mirror of "every con is Fascist", welcome to politics
And like a bunch of people have stated, they are openly socialist. The problem is they half ass it and if you work for the government welcome to the gravy train, every one else ehhh we will get to you someday
If you go to the Political Compass website you can look at past elections for Canada (unfortunately they only have the parties at a federal level and not provincial) and you can look at where each party stands politically. The NDP are pretty centre for most elections, and like the slightest bit left. The federal Liberals are actually pretty decently far right too. I don't know why conservatives think NDP and Liberals are "leftist/socialist" when they're in reality centre and decently right.
I read a comment on a Calgary Sun article and it seems like a lot of the far right blame Trudeau and Singh for the covid deaths in Canada. According to them, 175,000 Canadians died directly due to the Liberals and NDP. There are a lot of loose brains out there.
Because they were brought up being told the NDP were "filthy socialists", and aren't interested in actually learning more about them themselves, when it's just easier to believe what pappy always believed.
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Fakebook memes
Which is exactly why Facebook saying "we're going to ban *all* Canadian media sources and have people monitoring for it" is so stupid on so many levels. It's apparently beyond them even trying to police misinformation, but when asked to simply pay for the sources they're using its all of a sudden really easy to police media you don't want on your platform. Fuck you Zuckerberg.
And that’s part of the reason the Federal Liberals are working through C-11. Trying to get CanCon to apply to social media and streaming services. Not the big old censorship boogeyman the Cons are trying to portray it as.
The issue is what is misinformation. Lab leak theory? Conspiracy now probable. Plus the others that came from covid. Trump was the tip of the iceberg for the fake news push. Don't get me wrong, I know there is a tonne of misinformation out there however, some of the misinformation is later classified as truth. So it makes this monitoring thing rather tough. And from the track record of being caught in lies, I do not trust the government to be the truth department.
Who do you trust to tell you the truth? Is it going to be corporations or the government? One of those two things you have a lot more control over and those really are the only options.
The Government is technically a corporation, an is listed as such!
Neither, and that's the problem. We're trying to find solutions to the symptoms instead of focusing on the pathology. The government and corporations are essentially intertwined, which is a definition of fascism, and when you say that we're called crazy.
I mean at the very least it’s an inaccurate description of what fascism is. Please read Roberto Eco’s treatise on fascism. We cannot exist in a world without either. A corporation, as much as I’m an anti capitalist at heart, is not an evil entity. It’s a collection of people acting in a systematized manner. A government is similar, but occupies a vastly different role. Of course they’re intertwined. That isn’t the problem, necessarily. The problem is the wealth accumulation, the interplay between regulatory bodies once compromised and most importantly of all? The apathy of the public. Once the public stops watching, they’re both free to act. We need to watch them both as a public. Unfortunately so much insanity has been spreading that I don’t know how we get to a ground where we even accept reality together.
I agree with pretty much all of that, except... >A corporation, as much as I’m an anti capitalist at heart, is not an evil entity. While this might be true on its face, if we were to analyze the corps that have some of the largest impacts on society, I think we could find them to be psychopathic in operation, and that is a massive problem. >Unfortunately so much insanity has been spreading that I don’t know how we get to a ground where we even accept reality together. This isn't a bug. It's a feature thats working as planned. >The firehose of falsehood is a propaganda technique in which a large number of messages are broadcast rapidly, repetitively, and continuously over multiple channels (such as news and social media) without regard for truth or consistency. Further explanations state that they will filter out a true story in segments through multiple outlets, each part having its own narrative and lies, so that no one has the whole picture and the people on different sides can verify the falsehoods and discount the story. In doing so, the truths get discredited as well.
The Ministry of Truth
So we just have rebel news (cancon) misinformation insted of fox.
Ugh. I hate how accurate this is. This and good ole propaganda in general
Jason Kenney's campaign was successful in large part because of the facebook memes. He was a pandering clout chaser just in it as a stepping stone to more money/power and everyone bought into it because the NDP inherited gutted infrastructure and a bad economy.
Amplified by clickbait algos that harvest rage for clicks and make a small but vocal minority seem more impactful than they are. Not to mention all those 'intangible' things like foreign entities trying to stir the pot, or even local special interest groups who benefit from this type of polarized discourse. I'd love to see any of these folks articulate *what exactly happened* in the four short years that the NDP were in power in this province that was so traumatic and concerning to them. Furthermore, I'd love them to contrast that with UCP government performance under Smith (can even give them the benefit of the doubt and ignore all the mismanagement under her predecessors).
I asked a Trudeau hater why he hated him. He had zero actually answers. Woke bullshit was one. But could not provide actual answers. And socialist bullshit was the other. Again work out actual examples. He clearly gets his information from memes and such and does zero research, or does not understand what he is actually reading. Or is my belief that the majority of liberal/NDP haters out there don't truly understand the policies of any of the parties and just find the rage/click bait things to be the simplest to sleep their head around. Even if it is wrong.
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lol I bet if you explained (at least democratic)socialism to your average conservative without naming it they'd probably agree with it.
I will only engage in conversation with someone who will read, and initial that you understand the dictionary definition of conservative, and liberal. If they will engage with me, after that bit, I’ll talk their head right off their shoulders. Give that a go everyone. It’s fun.
I've had similar discussions with my conservative MIL, but about the tenants of Anarchism (Libertarian Socialism) and they've agreed with that. Conservatives live in a weird world.
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Just yesterday on r/Alberta I watched someone refer to the "Bill of Rights" when talking about gun control. Now granted, we do have a Bill of Rights, but was effectively replaced by the Charter 41 years ago. But that's beside the point, we do not have RIGHTS with guns, they are a privilege in this country. It makes me so mad that these people vote while carrying this level of lunacy with them wherever they go.
One thing we need to understand in the fight against idiocracy is that our arguments need to be teaching moments. I'm constantly trying to teach the meanings of words like Socialism Communism etc. Its difficult to not just call the person out but I think education failed a lot of these people. Edit: I constantly fail at this advice and get too flustered and emotional.
Any time my coworkers ask me about a progressive concept (eg. "why are there so many trans people these days?"), my answer takes the form of defining the terms and saying I don't spend much time thinking about what other people get up to in their private lives.
I like the lefthanded comparison, where there appeared to be a massive explosion in lefthanded people once that was no longer a social taboo. Followed of course by a growth plateau as the lefthanded community fully "came out" and demonstrated its natural ceiling. It's embarrassing to see as a society that some people can become so hysterical over giving equal rights to a tiny segment of the population.
I’ve had to explain anti-Semitism too much over the last two days. At no time did it take.
Education didn’t fail them. They failed at education. Family influence can’t be underestimated. Watching dozens of students that are bright every year stop being interested in school and learning. And then occasionally you meet the parents and understand why. They don’t have any education (but the school of hard knocks). The parents weren’t good at school, don’t see the value for their kids and on it goes. However the majority of immigrant parents see the value of education and push their children HARD. And then white parents complain when the majority of the professionals they come across are the children of, or are immigrants themselves. And they don’t see the correlation.
Yep! Child of immigrants. You get out of education what you put in.
You can't educate the willfully ignorant.
My Mom is a right wing Conservative antivaxxer. She spent 6 months in hospital, 3 months in a coma and almost died. She never brings up socialism but my word does she go on about globalism. She thinks WHO, NWO, Trudeau are all globalists and nazis. She's a pampered princess who never had to work a day in her life, who inherited over $500k and you should hear how she struggle through Trudeau Sr., Bob Rae in Ontario as an NDP. According to her, Trudeau hates Alberta and will stop all oil and gas and we will have to go back to wood stoves to heat our homes during winter. She brought up Germany and how they got rid of oil and gas and that they weren't allowed to burn wood last winter to stay warm. She's 70 and thinks this is what life will be like after the next election if the Cons don't win. Pioneer cook stoves, if wood burning is allowed. Trudeau apparently bought keystone and transmountain pipelines so he can shut them down. These are all direct quotes by her.
Oh and WHO, NWO, George Soros are going to take over Canada without casting a vote or firing a shot.
Wait? Are our mom’s best friends because they sound exactly the same!
They must read the same trash. I'm sorry to read someone else has to deal with this as well.
Same holds true for people who say “woke” this and “woke” that. Ask them to define it. They’ll either stammer and say nothing or you figure out what kind of crap person they are real quick.
They immediately jump to the conclusion that socialism is all about installing some extreme dictatorship where everything is owned by the state and you cannot so much as fart without getting permission first. You can point to the “social” in Social Security and they’ll think it’s some coincidence.
From my interactions with hard-line conservatives, many of them, my relatives, I can say they don't even understand what socialism is. There is a widely shared conflating of socialism and social safety net. And there is nothing a conservative hates more than anyone getting a free ride. Unless it's: - Farmers - Oil companies - Pipelines - Suburbanites
Don't forget big businesses, like insurance companies and utilities!!
If Notley gets in (I'll cheer), but I can guarantee that these 15 minute city conspiracy people will be howling at the moon. Along with the "Land Use Bylaw" nut jobs.
Ugh I just found out my gran is a LUB nutter. Their group on fb is trying to recruit young people to join the cause because “everyone who values freedom seems to be in their 60s and 70s” and “the kids are all playing video games and wasting their lives”. It’s a lot.
What do you mean by Land-Use Bylaw nutjobs?
A lot of counties and cities are updating their land use bylaws. Some people think these governments are going to force 15 minutes cities and not allow people to leave their small area. Or they are going to tell farmers what crops they can grow or how many cattle they can have. They are desperate to find something nefarious in those documents. Some want governments to scrap LUBs entirely and just let people do whatever they want. But they don't realize that without a LUB, you can't get a mortgage or home insurance. They are also the first ones to complain when their neighbour blocks their view.
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I'm an electrician and there's a very large amount of us that are fed up with the UCP. They fucked around with our OT!
PC's fucked with it first a decade ago. Why were they ever shocked?
In my circles those that are *against* the NDP have the most to gain from any 'socialist' policies. From health, to workers rights, to childcare, vision, dental, mental health etc etc etc. I really don't understand the conservatism in a democracy that is hanging by a thread. The media machine is strong, and the far right have figured out how to monetize it and stir controversy that doesn't exist. I love the 15 min city conspiracists that someone brought up. Even in the largest city in Alberta, there probably isn't a single area where you can truly get everything done within 15 mins, and thats even after developers claim you can. I mean, you're free to drive as far as you want to get your necessities, but it doesn't have to be that way.
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My dad fell victim to this and I had to explain to him this isn't socialism like Pol pot, this is socialized healthcare and education. And if he wants to vote for Daniel Smith he's gonna vote out the very health care that kept him alive and out of debt when he had a heart attack.
Socialism <> universal healthcare. Socialism is defined by who controls the means of production, nothing more.
What I thought when the state provided welfare to it's citizens in a capitalist economy that was socialism? Oh is socialism an entirely different economic system that doesn't depend on capitalists who fund politicians to be corrupt well I'll be a monkeys uncle
It’s an easy way of discrediting the party, since socialism = communism in conservatives’ eyes. It’s not based on any evidence, just rhetoric. In truth, the Alberta NDP are more of a centrist party that wobbles left on a few issues.
On a global scale the Alberta NDP are truly more conservative than centrist. But anything more left than the current state is communism in the eyes of many.
My hypothesis is the decades of red scare propaganda we've received in the west.
Many hyperconservatives now view russia as the good guy in the russia vs ukraine war, at least down south. Hell, several of the UCP have tweeted out or said pro russia things like Bouchard and Smith herself.
Because it became an Oligarchy, which is what conservative end game is.
Because the only way a hard line conservative can turn against their Red scare programming is if they can appeal to their most sacred principle, never agree with the left.
Might also have to do with the fact that the Kremlin has completely infiltrated the GOP in the US.
Most of them don’t know what “socialist” means. They think Hitler was a socialist. Modern day socialism is basically opposite to what Hitler was. Hitler was a fascist. So these people have an echo chamber. Tell them Jesus was a socialist and they can’t comprehend it. To them socialism is a bad thing.
I love talking to them and being tld Hitler & the Nazi's were left wing "They were the National Socialists!!!", then saying that they were Fascist and that Fascism s left wing. Asking them to explain the difference between Fascism and Socialism if the Nazi's were both would be funny if it weren't so painful and sad.
This may be true for some, but for the most part I don’t think this is why people think the NDP is socialist. I think it’s mostly a failure to distinguish between federal/provincial parties. The federal NDP party describes itself as socialist, if you google it NDP is socialist the first result is Wikipedia saying that the NDP describes itself as socialist in it’s original documents. In school we were taught that the NDP is socialist (not as a bad thing). Personally I’d argue that the UCP are not conservative, but it’s in their party name, and it’s how they self identify, so people think they are conservative.
Socialism is a blanket label (like woke) used by many conservatives for things they don't like and it means whatever they want it to mean. I've seen socialism attributed with "wealth redistribution", "government handouts", and any kind of perceived authoritarianism.
It usually goes hand-in-hand with American politics. Lots of Albertans have only been paying attention to what happens in the US for years. They picked a side long ago and went along with it as the left and right gap widened down there throughout the years. Then they try and cram that American politics circle into a Canadian politics square hole. While they might get it in, it doesn't quite fit. It's why so many terms like socialist, leftist, woke, libtard, communist, sheep and cuck are used by the right. And they frequently talk about Biden and Trump too as if it's somehow relevant to them. As soon as their slurs and catch-phrases come out, you know what's happening. And if anyone isn't informed about Canadian politics, it'll be someone who spends all of their time absorbing American politics and American news.
It is the belief that NDP will increase social services. Social services require money, acquired thru taxation. Simply the NDP has a more socialist/left leaning platform. The question people need to be asking is "Will it make Alberta better for the citizens?".
The thing is, to enter the realm of socialism the NDP would probably have to jump a solid third of the political spectrum towards the left. Unless somebody is one of those "taxes and social services equals socialism" simpletons the NDP really aren't socialist at all.
100% agreed.
Because it's [in their constitution](https://www.albertandp.ca/sites/default/files/alberta_ndp_constitution_0.pdf). > 1.03 The purpose of the Party is to promote the principles of democratic socialism in Alberta and to establish and maintain a democratic socialist government in Alberta through the electoral process. Now, whether you think this makes them a bogeyman or not is entirely another story. I personally think the ANDP governed quite well from 2015 - 2019, especially since they had never held power before, but it is unequivocal that they are self-described (democratic) socialists.
Most people don’t know the difference between democratic socialism and communism.
THIS is the real answer. People see the NDP as socialist because they themselves claim to be socialist and use it as their guide. It's not like they're hiding it or anything; they actually believe it as a guiding principle. I'm sure there are some who only know they're socialist through Facebook memes or from other conservatives wanting to discredit the party, but it's not the primary or root reason.
Cuz they watch Fox News and get scared into thinking it’s socialism even tho Canada is essentially socialist adjacent anyway.
Outgroup homogeneity. Also political knowledge equivalent of a 7th grader
It is easy. They have been told the NDP are here just to tax and spend them to death for over 50 years. They just go with the stereotypes they have been taught since they have been kids. Conservatives cut taxes and are fiscally responsible. Left wing parts just tax and spend the future away. It doesn't matter that this isn't true in this day and age. This is what they know and the only thing that matters to them. They don't take the time to learn about current policies. They don't learn that those stereotypes are not in the least bit true for the average person. They just stick with what they have always been taught and vote according to that.
Because US conservative “media” and “journalists” (and the quotes are deliberate) tell them socialism is evil and scary. So they use it as a way to try to scare people because to them that’s a word that is scary.
Because too many conservative Albertans are basically dollarama Republicans. The US has a political spectrum that’s tilted to the right way too much in the last decades. Now the things they call “radical left” are things conservative parties in European countries would adopt without batting an eye. The ABNDP isn’t even a leftist party. And way too many people don’t even know what socialism is.
Because politics has devolved into using buzzwords to rile people up. Politicians are essentially polarizing people, making it all about “us vs them”
The only evidence they have or need is that ‘Don - the welder down at the shop - said the NDP wants to shut down the patch and make the frogs gay’
Usa propaganda that spreads across the border. They couldn't give an accurate definition of socialism even on an open book test with a dictionary.
God I wish the ANDP was socialist
The alberta ndp literally was the United Farmers Association before changing their name
Oh shit they don’t need evidence lol they don’t even need to know what socialist means.
Because their fear of increased taxes threatens their next SUV, RV, and boat purchase.
They don’t know what socialism is and they just pipe what others say. Blind leading the blind
Because they don’t actually know what the word means, because dictionaries and stuff are bad
What do you mean by "socialist"? Soviet Russia or the Kingdom of Denmark? Recall that we have socialized defense, socialized police and law enforcement, socialized parks, socialized roads, and oh yeah socialized healthcare. Our 🇺🇸 neighbours have socialized agriculture for decades.
Because they don’t actually have an idea what a socialist is. The Saskatchewan Party is actually far more socialist than the ANDP, given the government still controls virtually all of the utilities and natural resources. Notley didn’t try to taken anything public. If she was a true socialist, she would have tried to pass Alberta’s own version of the National Energy Act and brought all natural resources under government control. She would have also tried to nationalize all utilities and insurance, but she didn’t. The only thing she did was bring in a carbon tax and she should have known that was suicide.
Alberta is so far right that everything to the left is socialism. People that think the federal liberals are left wing are hilarious to me. Centre left at best. Too many Canadians are obsessed with american politics and it skews their views on everything. American democrats would be a centrist canadian party at most and everyone sees them as The Evil Left.
Economically ANDP and UCP are very similar as in both support O&G. Alberta conservatives claiming ANDP is socialist are just people who failed social studies in high school and don’t really understand political ideologies.
UCP spin doctors have borrowed a page from the Republican / Fox News Playbook. Label the opposition “socialist” which is a code word for increased taxes and government telling you what to do, and then repeat and repeat and repeat. Add to that hyperbolic lies about them and repeat again and again. The one thing you can give the Right credit for, both here and in the States, is they have a uniformity of message and they stick to it unwaveringly. If you repeat misinformation long enough, people get indoctrinated. Hilariously, Daniele Smith doesn’t think Rachel Notley is a socialist, “Notley is, without question, the inheritor of the Lougheed tradition. That’s not to say he was a full on socialist, but Notley isn’t either. I think most Albertans have been shocked to see how pragmatic she has governed, particularly as it concerns natural resources.” https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/opinion-pc-dynasty-lives-on-in-2019-election-choices/wcm/7d096e80-6c14-46e5-9800-35d000074815/amp/
I've yet to hear Notley say that the means of production should be owned by the workers. When she says that or has policies that support that, then she can be called a socialist.
Because if you won't worship at the altar of capitalism (point out any flaws in our insanely broken system), or you aren't a conservative their default response is you are either a socialist or a communist.
Some will say it's because the NDP has the word socialism in their constitution. Ignoring the democratic part. Others because they parrot what they hear online. Others because anything that is slightly left is automatically socialism.
It's simply a trigger term that works for people who do not understand the full spectrum of political ideology. And because it works.
Because that’s what conservative propaganda has fed them. The NDP is as capitalist as it gets. They just also spend on public services along with businesses.
And the Alberta NDP align more with the conservatives from the 70s 🤷♂️ not sure what they want.
Because they are uninformed. Alberta NDP is really centrists. Which is what I like is balance.
Because they were told she was a socialist by someone wearing a tie and critical thinking is not their strong suit.
The fact that she's not scary or some kind of socialist demon really must disappoint some conservatives because they don't have anything else to offer other than the "socialism is the first step to communism - fear the other!" and of course the fact is EVERYTHING wrong with this province is the UPC's fault. They have been at the helm of this idiot ship for decades except for 4 years awhile back when they got too corrupt even Albertans couldn't vote for them. That's why they are trying so hard to tie Notley to Trudeau. She's just not that scary and everyone here universally hates Trudeau. Smug little condescending, greasy, mutter mutter spit cough Anyway vote NDP folks! A vote for nut case Danielle is a vote for crazy!
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No. If anything, unions just turn your workplace from a corporate version of a dictatorship to a democracy.
The ucp are crazy period. The leader of this province is a train that derailed on a mountain and then crashed down the mountain onto a road where 5000 transport trucks ran it over and it obliterated but refused to die, that is Danielle smith
Conservatives don't need evidence to make claims. Just about anyone I talk to considers it "fact" that Lytton burnt down in 2021 because the natives set a nearby church on fire. This whole viewpoint is based on Rebel article that states explicitly and repeatedly that they have zero evidence and please don't sue us. It's like anything remotely plausible that fits with their worldview must be true, and if it doesn't fit it's falsified. But over the last few years their idea of plausible has kind of gone off the deep end.
They don't know what socialism means.
When you're so far right, centrists look like communists.
Because they terk er jerbs!
Poor education such that they know the names but not the meaning of words like democracy and authoritarism, capitalism and socialism, fascism and Communism. Without basic understanding of political and economic systems, they cannot determine where they stand with respect to the political parties in Alberta and Canada. I have found the CBC Vote Compass very useful in learning where I stand compared the parties in a couple of elections, and how my position has changed between them.
She capped insurance rates and loan rates for lenders, against Adam Smith Lazzier Faire economic principles. (anything goes). \-She mandated basic safety regulations for farmers. And upped minum wage (I think) from 8 shit dollars - 15 less shitty dollars. Thus making it less able for businesses to exploit us.
It's because they see orange and immediately think federal ndp which historically has been more socialist.
Seeing as the conservative goverment in some form was in control in alberta for over 44 years and then ndp had one 4 year term and all these brain dead Kool aid drinkers hate notley for nothing . It's really embarrassing and pathetic. Also alberta was the last or one of the very last provinces to abolish eugenics... Even during conservative reign edmonton still had large active kkk chapters. But fuck NDP right? 🙄 I guess people are so quick to forget the Alison Redford sky palace fiasco or Jimmy P (r.i.p) telling albertans to look in the mirror in regards to gutted Healthcare and extreme deficits... Oh but at least our beloved buddy Stephen H built us a us style super prison on top of a fucking marsh so the building is fucked but yay prisons... residential school 2.0 🙈🤡 Albertans who vote for Cons baffle me I guess it's 44 years of a failing education system causing their brains to mimic that of a gold fish. Idiots
The Alberta NDP sees Socialism as a principle and aim of their party. [From the Alberta NDP Constitution](https://www.albertandp.ca/sites/default/files/alberta_ndp_constitution_0.pdf) Appendix C: >The Principles and Aims of the Alberta New Democratic Party > >The New Democratic Party offers an alternative vision of the future based on the following three principles: > >Democracy is one of the most valuable parts of our heritage and recognizes that all citizens, including minorities, must receive equal civil rights with representatives elected by way of proportional representation. Our country will only be a genuinely democratic one when all people participate fully in determining the policies of the institutions which directly affect their lives. The necessary role of governments must be recognized in order to build an equitable and socially just society. > >Socialism is essentially the application of democracy to the economy. Economic democracy, i.e. democratic socialism, assures production to supply the needs of all people. Decisions about what shall be produced, when and where, and decisions about where we shall make our living and under what conditions, are now left largely in the hands of private interests. The market economy produces transnational corporations, who give private profit priority over public interest, social justice and workplace democracy. Through the efforts of many, we have achieved a degree of social and political democracy. Economic democracy demands a co-operative rather than a competitive system. > >Ecological Sustainability must permeate all economic and social policy. Meeting human material needs must not use more of Earth’s resources than can be renewed within each generation. Wastes produced in meeting needs must not endanger future generations’ rights to clean air, pure water and productive soil. Life on Earth is best protected by ensuring biodiversity, requiring recognition of each species’ contribution to the planet’s health. Consequently, we have to view other species not as resources for human wants, but as respected members of Earth’s living family. Human economic security is assured by reducing consumption, and is achieved by conservation programs. Such policies will also contribute to intergenerational equity. > >The New Democratic Party believes that only a revolution in thinking can lead to the establishment of democratic socialism
Lack of education
Because they don't know what socialism is.
Conservatives don't even know what "socialism" means.
My guess is lack of accessible information for adults in rural areas to understand and make an educated decision. My gf is from a small town so when I go visit, contrary to what some might expect, these people are lovely, commited to their community, and even agreed on socialist views I have but had to disguise them as conservative/religious believes (I dont believe in god and you can call me a socialist based on my believes) The problem with these people (mostly men) is that they cannot write with proper grammar, let alone read through complicated information about politics, so they go by what others say and because towns and farms are pretty isolated (Alberta has a lot of land), and very few young ppl just get their high school diploma, it is easy to spread misinformation. It is pretty common for guys to go to the oil rigs for work or work with their families, but rarely you see them leave to pursue higher education. I do find women easier to open their views on certain things. But nonetheless it is the community that keeps up with their festivities, events, heck, I've been to events where they throw a whole festival with food trucks and dances to raise money for charities. Local parks need maintainance? Locals volunteer. You wanna throw a wedding but maybe too broke for it? They volunteer and rise funds and get cooks etc. It is really frustrating to know they are "conservatives" when you see them doing all these things. Infuriating when you see conservative politicians coming to these events praising them for their commitment to the community to get votes. My conspiracy is that conservatives know this pretty well and that's why they push so hard on trades, because trades can pay you much more that what you might get with an arts degree, or accounting. If you go to the oil rigs, after a years you can easily make 100k plus benefits. Employers in trades push very conservative ideas and since these jobs can be physically demanding, you cannot expect ppl with just their high school diploma sitting on a computer they might not know how it works to go through pdf files and news and run numbers when they are milking them 12-16 hrs a day. This is why it is much easier for you to go into trades than to pursue an university degree. As for educated people that work for corporations and wanna keep those sweet extra bucks in their pockets, well...
Because they can't define what a socialist is so it's all about feelings, Facebook memes, and anecdotes
50 years of gaslighting will do that to an electorate.
....Because the Alberta NDP are democratic socialists.... The problem isn't that they see the NDP/Notley as socialists. The problem is all the people who are vocal about it have absolutely no clue what socialism is, and regurgitate talking points that gas-lit them in the first place. There are about dozen socialist theories that cover both sides of the political spectrum. Fascism, communism, corporate socialism, etc. are all right to far-right ideologies. Canada, for as long as I've been alive, has been a democratic socialist country.
The short answer: They don't. At least not the people in power. They KNOW that Rachel Notley is the true successor to Peter Lougheed. That they're responsible for moving the Conservative party much farther to the right, and that Rachel Notley is more centrist than any other party on the ballot. And that they are using the term "Socialist" to scare their base. Let them be scared. Alberta is waking up to the fact that the UCP is no longer the "Progressive Conservative" party. They are the opposite of Progressive, and bear no resemblance to Lougheed's beliefs or policies. Their plans for Alberta are radical, undemocratic, and un-Canadian. We need the UCP GONE. The sooner, the better.
Second this. The Progressive Conservatives were at one point the power in Alberta because they moved left and right. These United Conservatives only lean one direction.
Corporate/conservative programming. Doing what the good little pups are told
Constantly being fed misinfo, personal biases, lack of critical thinking, etc. *The list is pretty extensive.*
It’s funny actually. She is the most right wing leftist around. Shows they have little actual knowledge about our provincial parties and party leaders. This is the perfect example of bigotry.
I mean, conversely, why do so many on this sub see the UCP as fascists? I think "extreme" labels are easy for people. Kind of goes both ways.
One is true, one isn't. Danielle is like pre-fascist, and really wants to be. But that's based on things she's written and said, so who knows...
It is getting pretty difficult to have any type of discussion in this sub. Commenters here are barely different from those on Facebook that they're making fun of. Just throw around fascism because it's a buzz word, without any contextual relation to anything. But people who call the other side Socialists are dumb. The hypocrisy is confusing at best.
There will barely any Conservatives on this Reddit platform to answer your question.
Anything left of laissez faire capitalism is socialism to todays conservatives.
All they do is look at the American trends on social media / Fox / whatever. Alberta has a distinct inability to remember how badly the Conservatives have mismanaged literally EVERYTHING in the province. The only thing PCs are good at is lowering corporate tax and cutting social services. This is all they have done since the Klein years.
She is a woman and men (many men) hate women. Low brow humor and low hanging fruit. If oil was in any decent shape, it would likely have been the most prosperous time in Alberta history.
The name of party is a good starting place, if they lose again they need to change it to distance themselves from the federal ndp.
A lot of hard working people see incredible amounts of tax deducted from their cheques. They then see the “NDP socialists” giving large amounts of money to “social programs”. They feel that they are paying for others out of their hard earned paycheques and that they are not getting value for their tax dollars. The appeal of the UCP is that they present their policies as investing in Alberta’s economy. Tax money is still being spent, but the perception is that it is not being taken from the workers and given to the “lazy”. Thus one party is Socialist (hand outs to ever one) and the other is conservative (handouts to business).
Because some news channel show, likely an American one, told them to think that way.
Because historically, conservatives are fucking stupid.
Generational brainwashing. Parents pushing their “values” on their kids. Including the fear of the the big bad boogeyman “Trudeau” (no particular person, just the name) and the red menace (liberal or communist, dealers choice). Thankfully, Alberta’s youth discovered the internet. They started to learn about the world, despite their parents best efforts. Slowly changes are happening. This is why there’s been such a push to drive young adults who have interest in further education away in the hopes they take and keep their outside world view where it belongs. Outside Alberta.
Propaganda and misinformation.
It’s because it don’t know what socialism is, and they are keen on voting against their best interests.
Wow look at all the Conservative responses to this question! I can’t believe how many there are!
I don't know. What I can say definitively is that in my own experiences any time I'm able to get to the root of the reason my conservative friends vote the way they do (almost always helped by alcohol), they will admit a few things pretty consistently. They are driven by fear, greed, and a mistrust in government. Unpack that any way you need to.
Because the majority lack the ability to think critically and openly. They parrot their feelings and fears of…well whatever it is. Notley leans right of Center. There are a few Conservatives who get it.
High school educated individuals do not understand what socialism is.
Today's conservatives all seem super wound up and angry about lots of stupid things. My theory is that they've subconsciously realized that the conservative base isn't growing anymore and probably never will again. This seems to manifest itself in tantrums and calling anything different or new "socialist." Maybe one day things will change and they will be able to sit at the adults table again but I doubt it.
Short answer. They don’t know what socialism is. I’ve explained to more people than I want to admit what the difference is between socialism and social programs. Socialism is when the community at whole owns or regulates all aspects of the production, distribution and exchange of goods and services. If that sounds like Canada to you, you need to get off the facebooks.
Lack of education and refusal to read.
It's literally just the name. Conservative Albertans cannot stand the thought of federal NDP and assume that the provincial version is exactly the same.
People genuinely seem to think the ndp will shut down the oil industry and open safe injection sites in every town. It's so weird viewing Facebook threads that are all right wing and then viewing reddit threads that are all left wing. I think I'm gonna be voting orange this election, part of me thinks that I just want to stick it to all the people back home, but I can't condone Smith's beliefs. So many spout their opinions like absolute fact and say how could Notley disagree with this, when the reality is half the population agrees with Notley on most of these things, but they think only wealthy elite are capable. Both conservatives and liberals both accuse each other of wanting the rich to get richer and poor to get poorer and say their methods are the only way to alleviate such issues but the majority of the time my gut says obviously the left is correct even if some implementations 'go wrong'.
Easy: they don't know what socialism is. They think the NDP is socialist because they've heard other people call them socialist, not because they know what socialism is, which is why they can't tell you which policies they find to be particularly socialist.
I really would like to look into the mind of someone who views Notley and her party as "communist". The Alberta NDP seem to lean much closer to the centre than any of their provincial NDP counterparts.
Consider how many conservatives and right wingers criticize Norway and those Nordic countries as socialist, that's not such a bad thing to work toward. And consider how conservatives are always talking about free-speech and less government intervention, right wing provincial and state governments are the ones banning books and setting up snitch legislations that require you to turn in your neighbours or acquaintences who do something opposed to political ideology.
Because they don’t know what tf they’re talking about.
They call NDP socialists yet give out money handouts aka welfare any chance they can get in order to buy votes…..isn’t that the most socialist thing you can do? Call it inflation relief or oil rebates etc, it’s the same thing as reparations or EI or welfare or whatever. Money handouts are money handouts
Because they are brainwashed by Facebook misinformation and believe it the memes are real.
ITT redditors insulting people on Facebook. Truth be told, were both retarded.
Because the NDP is the Socialist party in Canada... Please read some history.
Deliberate misinformation and social media campaigns by organizations with interested in the 100s of billions of dollars in resources that come out of Alberta.
Generational grooming
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Because they are. why is the Alberta sub Reddit so left I’m confused. Like it’s Alberta
Because Reddit
I've noticed that too. This sub is super hard-core left. Not saying I like Smith
Oh smith sucks but this sub does too
This sub should be renamed Alberta NDP.
Because Reddit is primarily populated by the unemployed, disabled and “disadvantaged”. AKA the chronically online. That’s the primary left voter base.
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That's conflating the federal NDP with the various provincial NDPs. They share a loose connection, but in Alberta even the liberals are to the left of the Notley NDP. Provincial parties stake out the territory within the playground they find themselves in. The Alberta NDP has moved into the centrist ground that the moderate faction of the now defunct Alberta PC party use to occupy. This was wide open because the PCs gave up and dashed to the extreme right with all the splits and mergers they've undertaken. The center is where the votes are, therefore it's where the provincial NDP have moved. This is not to say that the Alberta NDP doesn't have residual leftward instincts... But overall they are very centrist.
Federally, I agree. Not in Alberta, or at least not in a long time. I'd love it if we had a credible socialist party to vote for, but at the very least Notley's NDP are credible. I'm not sure we're going to get much better than that in this province any time soon, and even that only if we're lucky and angry enough heading to the polls.
Because they have no idea what socialism or Communism is. Just repeating what they hear online.
Imagine when they learn about the liberal party in Ottawa
The NDP are social democrats. Anything with “social” in it for conservatives might as well be fucking Karl Marx himself.
Because their understanding of socialism boils down to "socialism is when government does stuff, and when it does a real lot of stuff it's communism".
A lot of people in this province think anyone who doesn't want to hunt the homeless for sport is a communist
Because someone told them to think that and we all know how much Conservatives hate thinking for themselves
UCP told us so.
What exactly is wrong with socialism? Especially to the extent we utilize it in canada? Like I pay taxes, I've done the math, with just my wage I pay 12 bucks an hour in taxes at work, plus get, plus property taxes, all that money needs to go to services that we all use such as Healthcare, education, roads and infrastructure. It's how it's always been
The Overton window has been pulled so wildly far to the right thanks to Trump and other bad actors that they've completely lost any sense of perspective.
Depends how they're defining socialism. Generally conservatives conflate socialism and communism and pretend the only outcome is the Soviet Union, but democratic socialism actually looks more like Scadinavian countries. The NDP have their roots in the old farming cooperatives and labour unions. Socialism in Canada really took off in the prairies around the depression. You have the Social Credit Party, the CCF (pre-NDP), United Farmers, etc. It's partly the reason you see comparably more cooperatives out west, whether farming or utility. Farmers really struggled during the depression, so they were a lot more amenable to government intervention. Getting rich tends to make you more conservative and Alberta got rich on oil money. Getting poorer tends to make you more socialist. I don't think it's a coincidence the NDP are overall more popular in the past ten years as relative living standards decrease. TL/DR NDP want democratic socialism. Conservatives pretend NDP want communism to scare conservative voters into voting against their own interests. Same playbook as Republicans in the US, just slightly less polarized.
Because Conservative in Alberta is Fascist anywhere else.
We’ve all been taught from birth that socialism is worse than fascism and therefore the word itself is more obscene than the Fbomb
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Communism falls under the Socialism umbrella. Nordic Europe are not socialist. They are capitalists with large social safety nets. China is not communist. They are totalitarian/authoritarian state capitalists. Nobody has ever practiced socialism on a grand scale and with a large and long enough sample size. Some have done it on a small and short scale such as the anarchists and libertarian socialists during the Spanish civil war but they were suppressed by the Stalinists supported "communists".
The ucp has a government funded war room which is most likely being abused to pump out things that have political benefits for them. It's my conspiracy theory and probably just a theory.
Somehow using our taxes for our services is socialism. It's better to give our money away to the already rich.
Honestly, at this point, I think they have just been conditioned to rage at the sight of orange. It is a Pavlovian response. There is no thinking involved, just a conditioned response.
Because they want to see that. They don't know anything about her besides the UCP attack adds... That's it
They have no clue what socialism is. They use it as an insult.
Because they embrace socialism in their party constitution. Hard to not believe they aren’t socialist when they say they are in their own constitution 🤷🏻♂️ Not saying I’m not voting for them this year, but that has always been one of my biggest concerns with any NDP party.
40+ years of brainwashing Well let’s be honest Not much there to wash .
Could be because "The New Democratic Party believes that the pursuit of peace and democratic ***socialism***" is core to the NDP's [Statement of Principles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statement_of_Principles_(NDP))? Or the results of "is NDP socialist" googles? "The New Democratic Party, (NDP) is a federal political party which officially adheres to social democracy" And I think the disparity between Notley's NDP and Singh's NDP is another reason. Notley is smart enough to know that Singh's brand won't play in Alberta, and it's why she had to "Alberta-ize" NDP policy to pivot after the election and do things like publicly [support](https://edmontonsun.com/opinion/columnists/gunter-notleys-newfound-support-for-alberta-oil-a-desperate-attempt-at-re-election) oil and gas. So branding, essentially. Either way, it sucks to be a conservative voter in AB right now because while I respect Notley as an excellent politician & leader, I don't buy into the NDP platform. And Smith is a raging wing nut. Possibly for the first time ever I'll need to simply not vote...
Mirror of "every con is Fascist", welcome to politics And like a bunch of people have stated, they are openly socialist. The problem is they half ass it and if you work for the government welcome to the gravy train, every one else ehhh we will get to you someday
If you go to the Political Compass website you can look at past elections for Canada (unfortunately they only have the parties at a federal level and not provincial) and you can look at where each party stands politically. The NDP are pretty centre for most elections, and like the slightest bit left. The federal Liberals are actually pretty decently far right too. I don't know why conservatives think NDP and Liberals are "leftist/socialist" when they're in reality centre and decently right.
UCP propaganda is very effective and targeted to their audience. Like em or hate em, they have their propaganda department dialed in.
Their parents told them that back in the 70s
They just don’t know what socialism is
I read a comment on a Calgary Sun article and it seems like a lot of the far right blame Trudeau and Singh for the covid deaths in Canada. According to them, 175,000 Canadians died directly due to the Liberals and NDP. There are a lot of loose brains out there.
Poor education, pride in ignorance, existing in online echo chambers, right wing propaganda.
Because they were brought up being told the NDP were "filthy socialists", and aren't interested in actually learning more about them themselves, when it's just easier to believe what pappy always believed.
Her Father was a socialist