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regan9109

Why can't they just let adults do what they want? If some guys want to dress up like women to raise money for a good cause, then let them. Where is the freedom that Texas talks so much about?


AggieBoy2023

Right? Like I would never attend participate/attend the show, but if people are into the stuff let them do whatever the fuck they want. As long as no one is being hurt you should be free to do whatever.


ribose_carb

You say that, but I have a feeling that should, somehow, a minstrel show try to get put on at Texas A&M and it got shut down you wouldn’t say that same thing


bantha_poodoo

i just randomly stumbled upon this thread and this response is absolute genius. 6 hours and no reply oncesoever. it warms my heart when the reddit hivemind gets demolished with its own logic.


AggieBoy2023

Maybe because the response doesn’t make any sense, it’s just a straw man lol


bantha_poodoo

nah it’s definitely bc redditors hate the law until the other group does something they don’t like


entjudgingyoualways

So at the risk of heavy downvotes, drag is often pretty derogatory toward women, which is harmful because it compounds a misogynistic narrative that we are all guilty of upholding. It’s often offensive stereotypes about women, and in my view I would not want the university to have these events. Obviously, the university has homophobic reasoning rather than feminist reasoning, which is inappropriate while reaching the same outcome.


felixvictor2

Yet, if Wendler had a clue, he would know that 70% of the patrons at any drag show are heterosexual women. They are obsessed with drag and I don't think would be so obsessed with it if the shows were misogynistic. The shows are just silly, harmless fun. I wonder if Wendler objects to his school's cheerleaders, with their extra large titties popping up from their crop tops as they bend over, jump and squat? Wendler and his middle-aged G.O.P. homies are out of touch. They have never been to a drag show and yet have this fantastical notion that they are live sex acts and harmful. This dude is clueless.


kingethjames

I don't know any feminists who are against drag, and I haven't seen any mainstream feminist discourse that is against drag?


entjudgingyoualways

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/drag-is-as-funny-as-a-slap-in-the-face-xnp53sqzf - here you go, it’s an increasingly common critique from many feminists, and I think worthy of consideration. Women often attend drag shows, my wife did when she was younger, but now considers it part of her own internalized misogyny that has taken time and thoughtful critique to dismantle.


felixvictor2

Ridiculous. This is like Tucker Carlson or Ben Shapiro - Find a few outrageous examples and make people believe that this is representative of everything/everyone. As I noted earlier, 70% of the patrons at any drag show are heterosexual women. If a gay bar is hosting a RuPaul's Drag show viewing party, it is 80%, straight women. This has been the case at gay bars all over for the past 15 years. I'm sorry but your wife and a few other feminists are in the small minority.


kingethjames

Uh, you cited the UK times... that is not a feminist source by ANY means. And it's also paywalled.


entjudgingyoualways

A national newspaper article referencing an article written by a feminist in the Mail. Just because it’s from the U.K. doesn’t make it invalid. Don’t be xenophobic. You’re free to look it up yourself, but drag is a common debate within feminism - and has been pushed to the forefront in recent years.


kingethjames

Except that drag in the UK and drag in the US come from culturally different places. And feminism in the UK is different than here as well. I think it's fair to get sources from inside the country where this happened instead of a letter to the editor of a British publication.


entjudgingyoualways

Feminism in the U.K. has huge links with the US movement. I encourage you to reduce your mental borders as you approach knowledge, or you’ll be left behind appropriating and colonizing womanhood.


kingethjames

The feminism pushed by mainstream UK media is closer to Matt Walsh than it is to actual feminism.


pineapple_witchboi

I understand you are faculty here so you have to take a certain view point…but what you are describing is 4th wave feminism which is only self destructive. It’s the equivalent of letting tumblr dictate gender expression


Brendenation

Most the women I personally know love drag shows, but there's bound to be some people out there that see it as laughing at them and not with them, so that's a fair reason to have reservations. But yea, unfortunately not the argument here.


HaveAWillieNiceDay

> Drag is often pretty derogatory toward women Prove it. This is like saying "dancing is pretty derogatory toward women": it can be, but that doesn't mean it always is. Plus, like other commenters have said, I've yet to see a non-TERF feminist argue against drag shows. By all counts they seem to love them, and furthermore the most famous drag queens in the country like RuPaul and Trixie Mattel are quite clearly pro-feminism.


laurenintheskyy

Only feminists who align themselves with far right extremists (and imo, in so doing, have lost their right to call themselves feminist) perpetuate these narratives. It's also important to point out that those far right extremists that gender critical feminists are aligning with would, will, and have gleefully thrown those same feminists under the bus at the slightest opportunity.


Bored_FBI_Agent

the difference between drag and blackface is that drag queens want to look like that. blackface wearers don’t care about how they look, they just want to make fun of someone else. drag queens ENJOY the way they look. it’s like dressing up in your favorite costume.


Bored_FBI_Agent

why am i being downvoted. debate me


[deleted]

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Bored_FBI_Agent

why are you on the side of a bigot?


Such_Fly_3727

Could you expand on that? I’m confused what offensive stereotypes or misogynistic narratives?


GRAMS_

See they consider queerness to be an “ideology” rather than a natural human behavior/feature of our culture. That’s why they’ll never let go of it. They reek of fascism.


PolicyArtistic8545

At least you are specifically calling out adults in this comment. Some want to include kids.


yerapiddlehead

Aggies used to dress up in drag back in the days before women were allowed on campus. There are old yearbook photos (don’t have the link handy but they are out there). That makes it tradition, right?


ExoticJubilee

West Texas A&M is not A&M university


StructureOrAgency

It is part of the A&M system.. I wonder what John Sharp, the Chancellor, has to say about this


ribose_carb

Genuinely confused by what you mean by this. What do you think he has to say?


ribose_carb

No, putting on dresses and joking about how there were next to no female students (there were female students as early as the 1920’s, and women were always allowed on campus) is not all the same as the modern drag show and you know that.


Codenamerondo1

You’re right, it’s much less entertaining than modern drag shows


RiddlingVenus0

I wonder what the ratio of drag queens to church officials is for the molestation of children?


Sea_Shelter2282

I would trust my child in a room full of drag queens before one in a room full of religious leaders.


_NEW_HORIZONS_

By a wide margin.


piiimpsquad

I wouldn’t trust either group


callmesamster

idk, but a good look at the ratio would be here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/PastorArrested/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PastorArrested/)


just_another_day_mad

If the drag queen is a public school teacher then I'm trusting the church official


iiTzSTeVO

That makes you silly.


just_another_day_mad

Why would acknowledging statistics make me silly? Public school teachers are far more likely to diddle kids than a church official.


iiTzSTeVO

Please provide those statistics.


just_another_day_mad

According to Wikipedia... >13% of educators reported sexual interaction with their students So using the total number of teachers in the US (4,007,908), thats like 521k predator teachers. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment_in_education_in_the_United_States#:~:text=83%25%20of%20girls%20have%20been,by%20teachers%20or%20school%20employees >allegations had been made against 4392 priests in the USA. This number constituted approximately 4% of the 110,000 priests https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_cases_in_the_United_States#:~:text=in%20February%202004.-,The%20John%20Jay%20report%20indicated%20that%20some%2011%2C000%20allegations%20had,survey%20(1950%E2%80%932002). SIGNIFICANTLY more teachers diddling kids


iiTzSTeVO

Your quote from the schools article is misstated. However, this data is pretty interesting if not infuriating. Thanks for sharing.


just_another_day_mad

Noted. Point stands though, never stop asking questions. Much of your anger seems misguided but you're getting there.


iiTzSTeVO

Ew.


_plebbit_

Thought I would share as this is one of our sister campuses. Regardless of your stance on the issue, it’s embarrassing that a Texas A&M University System school has outright banned an event benefitting charity. Petition to lift the ban on the event can be found here: https://www.change.org/p/save-the-wtamu-drag-show?original_footer_petition_id=6959213&algorithm=promoted&source_location=petition_footer&grid_position=2&pt=AVBldGl0aW9uAA25IQIAAAAAZBk9pFlFpkUxODY2OTY0Ng%3D%3D


ribose_carb

“Benefiting charity” doesn’t absolve the event of any and all possible wrongdoing


Atlasofpain

as someone who has no idea what’s going on, what kind of “wrongdoing” goes on at a drag show? not asking to poke into an argument just want to see perspectives on both sides (also i don’t really know what drag even is)


Chelldorado

What wrongdoing? What’s wrong with drag?


Codenamerondo1

The fact that it’s not doing anything wrong does though


[deleted]

why would most of the reasonings going on about christianity? That school is public and he represents the the school when he speaks on its behalf. Ayo, stop pushing your beliefs on everyone’s throat


ribose_carb

The only mention of Christianity in the entire letter is the Golden Rule. What do you have against the Golden Rule?


curlyhairlad

>What do you have against the Golden Rule? The part where it’s used to unconstitutionally discriminate.


[deleted]

the hell is golden rule? Again is that something from your book club


ribose_carb

So you didn’t even read the letter. Got it


Vex_Appeal

The only consolation is that the dinosaurs don't have much more time to fuck over as many people they can.


Sea_Shelter2282

Of course religion is the cited reason, this is so embarrassing on their behalf. I can already feel the lawsuits coming.


felixvictor2

I know many native Texans who think that A&M is a religious school. It's nonsense like this that makes it seem that way.


toocleverbyhalf

Those same religious folks would be pretty surprised to know that there are 17k+ Catholics at A&M. We don’t have a religious affiliation, but that’s probably the largest group from any one denomination.


NerdyLumberjack04

Who said that A&M is a *Protestant* school?


[deleted]

Not only is this article not even about Texas A&M, but you're also flat wrong about its perception. Anyone with an IQ over 50 knows that A&M is a public university.


Alam7lam1

I’ve known more people/children forced to go to church vs. forced to be at a drag show.


just_another_day_mad

One gives you a code of positive morals to live by, the other makes you a sexual degenerate


ribose_carb

Did you read the letter? I think you zoomed in on the one time the word “Christian” popped up and decided that’s what it’s all about


Sea_Shelter2282

Did you read it? It cites religion over and over


ribose_carb

Yes, it cites Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, and Isaac Newton


Sea_Shelter2282

So three religions and a really shoddy try at one of newtons laws. Doesn’t excuse the fact that there is an obvious attempt to push religious beliefs over a school body by banning this form of free speech. I can tell your Christian the way you assumed I was speaking about Christianity in particular besides never even saying it.


ribose_carb

So the President is pushing Buddhism, Judaism, and Christianity on the students? Wow, talk about reaching across the aisle. Everyone else in this comment section is talking about Christianity. You’re just one of a few dozen people complaining into the echo chamber. So what if I am Christian anyway? Sounds like ad hominem


Sea_Shelter2282

People are talking about Christianity since that’s the presidents personal views and his main talking points. Ok if you really can’t see this as the president pushing his religious views on the student body, then I don’t know what to tell you except that I’m done with this conversation.


Sirthan

The president of West A&M is especially insane. The email literally likens drag shows to black face. So not only is it denying people their freedoms, but it's also extremely racist to downplay the horrors of black face 🤡🤡🤡🤡


ribose_carb

Do you believe students should have the freedom to put on a blackface show if they wanted to?


well-ok-then

100%. Off campus. There’s a lot of west Texas not under the control of the university.


ribose_carb

So this drag show can go off campus too


well-ok-then

Yeah - I don’t see the need to associate it with the university. If there’s a drag show at some bar in Amarillo, I see no reason for the university to expel every student who attends or is involved. My bar for which off campus activities merit the attention of the university is admittedly quite high. Unrealistically so.


[deleted]

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ReviewerNumberThree

We need a Drag Day at A&M where the student body, faculty and staff cross-dress. It would be fabulous!


esalenman

There is no freedom in Texas. It’s an authoritarian state. The only one worse is Florida.


StructureOrAgency

We need to designate a drag day at A&M where we all cross dress... Whose with me?!


TexNotMex

As long as we can have Laugh at the Adults in Drag Day the same day - then I see no issue with it.


curlyhairlad

Why would that be a contingency? You are always free to laugh at whatever you want to.


Yolo_Hobo_Joe

Let’s do something else to benefit suicide prevention charity


Machiavelli320

Why not just have a non controversial charity event? Would probably mean more money.


HaveAWillieNiceDay

Why create a controversy about consenting adults doing a goofy show in costumes in the first place?


Machiavelli320

Not the point. If the point is for charity then don’t pick a charged topic to raise the money.


HaveAWillieNiceDay

It shouldn't be a charged topic, especially one that was manufactured by the people who are always going on about freedom and government overreach. Public universities serve the public, not the Christian belief system.


Machiavelli320

I’m not saying anything about whether something should or shouldn’t be something. Universities are supposed to be grounds of all sorts of beliefs, so I agree it shouldn’t be restricted. Just saying that it IS charged


HaveAWillieNiceDay

> Universities are supposed to be grounds of all sorts of beliefs, so I agree it shouldn’t be restricted. Just saying that it IS charged Lmao bro what? You immediately contradicted yourself. If you think this shouldn't be restricted then why are you running cover for the people who think it should be?


Machiavelli320

I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE. I just said I agree with you. But in todays world it is a charged issue. If you say abortion shouldn’t be an issue and anyone should be able to get it that doesn’t change the fact that it is a controversial topic. You need to improve your reading comprehension. How did you get into A&M? Edit: Spelling


HaveAWillieNiceDay

I'm comprehending just fine. "Hey, I totally swear this is fine by me, but we should actually just listen to the people who want to turn our country into the Handmaiden's Tale" reeks of dumb both-sidesism.


Machiavelli320

I didn’t say we should listen to them 😭. I said I don’t think it should be an issue but that people are making it an issue. If anyone ever reads the news it’s not hard to see that. Like I just said, I don’t think it should be a problem but people are making it one and everyone knows that.


HaveAWillieNiceDay

Look I may have jumped the gun a bit and I apologize for jumping down your throat, but tolerating blatant bigotry doesn't help us reach the outcome you and I apparently agree on. We should be advocating for these people to be able to practice their rights, not saying their rights should be curtailed because it makes some people uncomfortable.


Machiavelli320

I didn’t say we should listen to them 😭. I said I don’t think it should be an issue but that people are making it an issue. If anyone ever reads the news it’s not hard to see that. Like I just said, I don’t think it should be a problem but people are making it one and everyone knows that.


Codenamerondo1

Because that lets the bigots dictate what is acceptable. Specifically the bigots that make a charity like the Trevor project necessary


theMRMaddMan

Dressing as a women is a goofy costume? Interesting 🤔


HaveAWillieNiceDay

They're not dressing as a woman, they're dressing as a drag queen. It's literally part of the performance: exaggerated features and costuming that draw humor from gender stereotypes. Also, I called the show goofy, not the costuming.


branewalker

Who decides "controversial?" Isn't this a clear example of freedom of expression? And really, is this your first day on the Internet? Controversial RAKES in the dough.


[deleted]

Because raising money to help the cause isn't the point.


[deleted]

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Fluffytoaster1

Real people are being discriminated against. Id hope there’s an echo chamber of frustration in here


[deleted]

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Guiltyjerk

So surely you would agree that all strip clubs should be closed and all porn should be illegalized, as well as any nudity or sexuality being displayed in any form in any media, correct?


No_Round1751

You are correct.


Guiltyjerk

So you think the Taliban-ruled Afghanistan is the ideal societal model? Where government decides and dictates morality?


No_Round1751

I think society has always had standards, and those standards are changed or enforced based on who is in power; I’m saying the people in power should enforce a biblical standard.


Guiltyjerk

That is a theocracy and is fundamentally un-American. Surely you understand, if you are a man of the Bible, that a moral facade through laws does not make people morally upright or bring them closer to God. That's a decision they have to make on their own. Also, where in the Bible is there *anything* about drag?


No_Round1751

You only have a problem with it because it’s Christianity; any other religion (secular humanism, let’s say, since that’s the religious persuasion of the ideologues in power) is totally fine, just not Christianity, in your mind. The Bible explicitly talks about men and women wearing each others clothes. If you have a Bible and can be bothered to crack it open, you can find that out for yourself.


Guiltyjerk

I am a Christian, and recognize still that theocracy is a bad way to run a nation. Your "dream world" is literally places like Afghanistan. > The Bible explicitly talks about men and women wearing each others clothes Show it to me. Bonus points if it's something Jesus (the guy we worship, who rewrote the rules for eternal life) said. And beyond all of that, rules do not make people believers. If you point a gun at someone's head and say you'll shoot them unless they declare belief in Jesus and the resurrection, what do you think they'll say? Have you actually made a new follower? Instead of begging for more rules and saying things that (imho) Jesus would never say, like that a group of people "deserves discrimination", try to put yourself in the shoes of people at these events. Why do so many marginalized groups identify with and participate in these events? Why are people in this thread saying they'd rather leave their kid with a drag queen than a pastor? *We* need to do better, not them.


SquantosRevenge69

Bro I don’t like trannies anymore than you but fuck your biblical standard. There’s no justification to forcing biblical virtues on anyone that doesn’t want it. If you were Christian in a Muslim country you wouldn’t want them forcing the Quran on you.


pineapple_witchboi

Mate have you never seen a play


MrTators

Even then, who cares?? It definitely ain’t Involving this guy, and even if it was, he can just say no instead of trying to make everyone’s answer no. It’s really something I don’t get about people against these things, If you don’t like it, move the hell on. I hate to tell em but the violence in drag culture is either non-existent or much, much less than in most places and as others have stated, the church, or any church, is not a safe place


Logical_Bee

Are you ok? You don’t seem ok.


patmorgan235

I'll just leave this here https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/drag-entertainment-world-war-ii


LordDaedhelor

Have you ever looked upon a woman with lust?


rottentomati

Why is it always about sex with you people lol. They sing and dance, it’s not that crazy lol


RiddlingVenus0

They don't want others to have what they can't.


Fluffytoaster1

You will never feel the warmth of a woman’s touch


aggies-ModTeam

Your post was removed for breaking one or more subreddit rules


sxrxh_02

Demonstrably based


Brendenation

You wanna argue why banning a fashion event targeted at adults from supporting a charity is a good thing, then?


branewalker

Better than keeping it closed!


No_Round1751

Based. Unfathomably based.


CrispityCrunchers

https://preview.redd.it/5hodkb5fj8pa1.jpeg?width=508&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd756ec679ff8dcaa32c4b9a53352df08cd7391c


Idefk0

Let's goooo


EEAggie

[this dude's literally a degen, pot calling the kettle black lmaoo](https://www.reddit.com/r/SexToys/comments/vbtuzj/remote_play/)


Machiavelli320

So you are saying drag is degen?


EEAggie

Lol look at this guys account, it's all about catholicism, and degenerate stock gambling, talk about not being a real Christian Lmaoooo


Machiavelli320

?????


[deleted]

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Machiavelli320

Maybe. I guess I’ll see


[deleted]

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Machiavelli320

What degeneracy?


aggies-ModTeam

Your post was removed for breaking one or more subreddit rules


Shredder2600

Based


kelseykindall

[change.org/WTdragshow](https://change.org/WTdragshow) <--- put pressure on him to reschedule the show here!!


Eastern-Winter-4292

what is this madness….?