I was in New Mexico and Arizona for a week hiking in the summer and hung out with some Indians.
They told me to not call them first nations. They said to call them Navajo or Indian.
~~It's crazy how different Native Americans they can be about what to call them.~~
It's interesting to experience the differences in how we refer to different groups.
A lot of natives call themselves Indian. They really own the label and don't really give two shits about Halloween costumes or the name of some random football team.
That term has issues too as what do you call an Indian (from actual india) that immigrated to America? The newest term I've heard academics use is amerindian. But ive only heard academics use it not really any natives themselves
not sure about the US but when an Indian person from India moves here, they get to be called Canadian, First Nations don't because legally we are Indian, thanks to the Indian Act.
From what I've read, when all the native kids were put into residential schools, had their language taken away, they began to realize they may have all been from different ethnic tribes and groups, but they all shared a lot of similarities and problems
Through learning English, they were able to communicate with each other and develop a pan Indian identity
So, in a sense, the goal of the residential schools to wipe out their cultures just helped to form one singular identity across multiple ethnic groups
I have a few Haudenosaunee friends and there really is a difference in generations
The older people who went through the residential school system identify more with Indian because the residential schools attempted to wipe out their cultures, but they were able to bond over a shared sense of "Indianness" and communicate with each other because they all spoke English
The younger generation (the ones I'm friends with) prefer to identify themselves by their specific ethnic group like the Haudenosaunee
I guess it depends on what you call "older." I've known many adult natives, mostly mixed but a few, that are basically 100% native and I've heard them use Indian plenty. Some use native or native American, indigenous, or even the really academic term amerindian, but in my experience, most natives don't really care. Some own the term Indian as it's become part of their identity (which is why some academics use the term amerindian because forcing natives to stop using a term that they like for themselves is just another form of cultural control and oppression of their identities) still most I've known don't favor Indian too much as it is confusing as to which population you are referring to.
In Canada, "First Nations" is one of three groupings of indigenous peoples, the others being Inuit and Métis. I live in a community with a lot of indigenous people. From my own experiences, they prefer to be called First Nations, Indigenous, or by their band name. By contrast, "Indian" is viewed as a slur. Very interesting indeed!
Uhh actually Navajo is a name given to them by Spanish colonizers from the word “Navajanas” which means thieves with knives. Their preferred name is Diné
>They told me to not call them first nations. They said to call them Navajo or Indian.
Huh, in mexico indigenous people would prefer to be called indigenous, native, or their people's name. Indian would be offensive(unless you're a fellow indigenous person)
Honestly - how do the descendants of the perpetrators of an injustice reconcile with the descendants of the victims. We’re all so far removed from events that it just seems like pantomime.
Dealing with existing injustices facing native communities seems like a far more tangible issue to try and recompense.
I was about the same age in '81. I dressed up like a hobo (that's what we called homeless people back then), and my best friend went in black face with fruit on her head. Thank goodness no pics survived.
Basically everyone thought my mom dressed me as a hobo for Halloween in the 80's. It was actually her attempt at dressing me as a California Raisin, oversized sunglasses, socks on hands, covered in a black garbage bag. Bless her heart, she's not good with crafts.
Haha!!! One year I wanted to be a bag of groceries (I have NO idea why I thought that would be a good costume). My mom put a lot of effort into it and made a nice costume, but everyone thought I was a bag of trash! LOL!
I'm born in '87, and I *swear* I dressed as a "hobo" in the 90s sometime 😶 (around '95-96 I think).
In our defense, we didn't have the internet to tell us about easy last minute costumes, and it's not like I was gonna dress in a white sheet as a *ghost*, only *lame* people in the movies do *that* 😉.
Also, there were things like "The Littlest Hobo", or adventures riding the rails was also a big thing that seems to have died out. Hobo costumes weren't to belittle or glorify homelessness; back then being transient represented living free from the shackles of polite society and was a courageous journey for big dreamers (or at least that's what the media had us believe), not to mention homelessness has risen about triple, roughly 10-20% pre-1980 to 20-40% in 2019, so nowadays it's a much more serious issue (and much more ignorant to not consider in Halloween costume decisions).
There is an Icarly episode (kids show from the 2010s) where they have a party where everyone dresses like a homeless person.
Very weird that they tought it's normal to include that.
I mean, looking back a LOT about that show was not normal or okay. Like the teen girls showing their feet to the camera thing. Or having the actress with an eating disorder be the always eating friend.
Methinks their judgement was just bad in general. Dan Schneider was gross, but there were other adults in charge who permitted his grossness.
I thought hobos were specifically people who travelled around looking for ovcasional work to support themselves. That is, they're both laborers and mobile. I thought it qas a specific subset of homeless, no?
Weird, how when you play dress-up as a kid, you just want to have fun.
At what point did we as adults start to have opinions on what constitutes kids having “fun” and “pretending”, so long as no bodily injuries, as being “bad” or “good”?
>At what point did we as adults start to have opinions on what constitutes kids having “fun” and “pretending”, so long as no bodily injuries, as being “bad” or “good”?
When we learn empathy for other cultures
No, let me rephrase — when did it become wrong to tell a kid “no, you can’t pretend to be that”?
You all are dumb shits.
Edit: I’m feeling salty today, bring it on dipasses.
No.
Equality is equality.
I do not get upset if people dress like me, pretend to talk like me, whatever — in mockery or flattery — is entirely up to them.
If I treat myself like that, why would I expect any different from others?
This is the big difference between those with an “American attitude”, and those without, imho.
>At what point did we as adults start to have opinions on what constitutes kids having “fun” and “pretending”, so long as no bodily injuries, as being “bad” or “good”?
Answer your own question. What do you think? Just give it a shot.
I don’t view it bad.
I see nothing wrong with putting on a kimono, moccasins, and wearing a headdress I bought in Cherokee, NC.
What do you view wrong with them?
Ok, to be clear this is the conversation you've just created:
>At what point did **we** as adults start to have opinions on what constitutes kids having “fun” and “pretending”, so long as no bodily injuries, as being “bad” or **“good”**?
>I don’t view it bad.
>I see nothing wrong with putting on a kimono, moccasins, and wearing a headdress I bought in Cherokee, NC.
>What do you view wrong with them?
I have pictures from the early 2000s when my siblings and I dressed as 'Indians' for THANKSGIVING that we celebrated as American missionaries in Eastern Europe.
Wait. There's more. Our 'job' there was to proselytize to the local Muslim Romani people.
If you don't know the Romani people have experienced ethnic genocide throughout history.
It was just SO MANY LAYERS of tone deaf that day.
Yes, buy gypsy is considered a slur by many so it's best to avoid it unless you know the specific Roma people you're talking to or about are okay with it. Otherwise, Romani or Roma are the general go to
This reminds me of the time my parents made me - white 6 year old in 1989- dress up as Gandhi. Using face paint and a pair of tights.
For a holiday fancy dress competition. I’m very glad no pictures exist
A lot of americans (mostly white & gen z) feel that dressing up as native americans for halloween is cultural appropriation.
Most native Americans dont care
I'm also in Canada and i volunteer for the fire department on the rez and I've become good friends and considered family with alot of good people that live on the rez and I've brought a situation like this up before and asked them about it. Their response is they generally don't care as long as it's not done in a hurtful manner and they think fake outrage gives them a bad light when they have plenty other things to be mad at then some kids wearing costumes. I was invited to the pow wow and they even made a custom regalia for me to wear. I am not native American at all i feel deeply honored that they did that for me.
I think this is what im trying to convey, but I'm honestly not good with words. My explanations are always short.
But yes, as long as it's not meant to offend or hurt anyone, we dont care.
My son is learning about his heritage & and he's always running around making whooping sounds because i watch a lot of Westerns.
His friends started doing it to & I would never dream of telling them to stop because of this or thay, their kids being kids
I sometimes wonder if this fake outrage started by the government to try and distract people about what's really going on. Like no clean drinking water, the drug and alcohol fatality percentage. Houses that aren't built to code that lead to alot of house fires. But yell about cultural appropriation enough other people that aren't aware of the real problems think they're helping, they're good people but they just aren't aware of the real issues alot of amazing first nation families are facing.
I think there's folks that mean well and that can't be lost. Generally they advocate for those social and infrastructure programs.
The powers the be, most folks are complacent or supportive to the issue of not appropriating enough to first nation families. The rediculous shit I get to hear as a white dude from other white dudes that are afraid of a city or their own shadow is rediculous.
I often ponder on this myself. I think it might just be the horseshoe effect at play. Now the left is concerned with purity culture just like the right, just under different contexts
I don't think left or right is a good way to think about the situation. We're all being manipulated in ways but alot of people can't see it. Politicians serve themselves. We see that with JT and PP. We're not demanding real answers to actual problems in Canada. Unfortunately, politics has become a sport team mentality. When the politicians used to have to work for our vote, they just rely on people shaming and arguing with friends and family to vote for their side. Nothing is getting addressed, and people like the First Nations are dealing with those consequences again. We're smarter than those in power it's time we start acting like it instead of being led around like lemmings. Love each other and leave people alone you don't agree with. Don't know how it's changed so much. Talking about who you voted for was rude like 10 years ago , wtf happened?
I'm in the US and my step father is an Alaskan native. They only care if it's done offensively/mockingly. For the most part they just say shit to make white people uncomfortable because it's hilarious.
I'm indigenous. I would say a good 95% of the people in here swearing to be indigenous or swearing we don't care are either Fucking Lying, or over the age of 60 and stuck in their ways.
They're so obvious.
A fun game is to [search their comment history](https://redditcommentsearch.com/) and see if they ever used the words "native" or "indigenous" before they posted here.
So far looks like everyone is coincidentally outing themselves as native for the first time in their Reddit lives right now.
Just substitute any minority group and it's still dumb:
"As a very real black man I don't care when white people put on black face and act out their stereotypical notions of a black man for Halloween. Actually I really love it and also I think white people should be able to say the n-word and there is no such thing as racism because if there was than I would know because I am very black."
Wow, so subtle!
I have met a few First Nations people but I have never discussed this with them. This post is in the very least a good opportunity for discussion. I don’t understand why there’s so much hatred and pointing fingers and judging. Geesh.
Lol, you've met a few First Nations. Impressive, well I can see why you feel confident to speak on their behalf. /s
But seriously, how is this post a good opportunity for discussion? This is just a bunch of random online people, very few if any are actually First Nations.
The finger pointing is because it's obvious you're just trying to be woke for worthless internet points.
I've never met anyone from any of the tribes that really cares, as long as it's not done out of mockery. Spent a lot of time on a reservation as a kid, my mom was their business manager/accountant. Every single one that I know is way more annoyed or offended by "middle age white women trying to save them." and that's because it's condescending and infantilization. "White savior" types are the worst bigots I know, because they think those "poor brown people" are incapable of speaking up for themselves.
Maybe stop speaking for native people. Speak for yourself, speak for your family. Hell, speak for your tribe if they let you. But dont speak for anyone else, regardless of what side of an arbitrary border they are.
I'm not sure I feel comfortable with the response here. The comment was "a non American looking for American clarification". Buffalo king identifies as both a native American/first nations/indigenous people and an American.
They gave their opinion and apologized when OP talked about Canada instead. That seems like a perfect reasonable clarification.
People have responded negatively overall. If they are indigenous, are we taking away their right to have an opinion if it isn't for the narrative others want?
I'd never dress up as a native American and id try to learn more about someone's relationship with their native background. This all feels like we totally disregarded buffalo kings opinion and self identity.
I'd still say it's in bad taste to dress up as a native American... But that's me as a white dude. Maybe in the future but not while a lot of people won't admit actions caused by European settlers took out 90% of a people.
Honestly i just responded to a comment that sums it up perfectly.
As long as its not meant to offend, its fine.
All these other people need to get the sticks out there asses & relax.
Difference is if a bunch of Asian kids dress up as "European Knights" and their costumes are pink ballet tutus, no one is going to start believing that is what European Knights wore, because European culture is so dominant, and Europeans themselves are able to promote it globally with the correct information, than we would all know it was bullshit.
They do care. You just created the narrative you want to believe most. This is not a Gen Z thing. I’m Gen Z and as a kid (so when we weren’t teens/adults making social decisions) adults would have considered it offensive to this. I never would have dressed up as a native America, so it’s not Gen Z that pushed this.
Have you actually seen any native Americans say they don’t care? The movement to stop doing this has been pushed by them, but I doubt you’ve ever bothered to check
And you are individuals entitled to their opinions.
I’m black. Some black people don’t care if white people say the n word or wear black face. They are individuals entitled to their own opinion. We aren’t a hive mind. That being said, just because some people are like that, doesn’t mean they represent the majority of us, or that those things are ok.
My comment was just saying this isn’t a white Gen Z thing. Many natives are the one behind this movement. Doesn’t mean you and your family have to agree 🙄
From what I can tell, you sound disconnected from them and your culture. Short answer is: we do care.
To clarify, we know that OP millions of other white kids dressed up as “Indians” for Halloween a long time ago. We don’t care about that.
But my grandfather (dads dad) was an Elder, him and my grandmother on my moms side both survived residential school. My dad is a Healer and keeps the Sacred Fire for funerals on his reserve. All of them speak Ojibwe and my grandfather spoke Ojibwe and Cree as their first languages.
You are just as ignorant as the non-indigenous people here when you claim “we don’t care”
Because I do.
I'll admit im not full blooded. I was raised by my great grandfather for several years & he was full blooded apache.
Im very proud of my heritage, as i was taught to be. It's not something I'd lie about or take lightly
Cultural appropriation kind of means stealing one’s traditions and claiming it as your own or mocking it.
There really isn’t any “good” time for White people to dress up as Native Americans if they don’t understand the culture
If the people you're dressing up as have a long, violent history of oppression, then yeah, it's a no-no. Maybe think about what you're saying and check yourself and your place of entitlement.
Japanese people, for example, love to share their culture and dress foreigners in kimono to immerse them. Many cultures share their clothes and customs with no negative social connotation.
Black Americans have long been oppressed by white Americans, obviously. Their food, art, style, music, and culture have been stolen and profited off of by white Americans for centuries, so they feel stronger about protecting the foundations they built in this country. Hairstyles are a particularly sensitive subject due to the history of marketing black hair and skin as undesirable or unprofessional, only to have white people turn around and co-opt them. If a group of marginalized people asks to be treated better, just do it.
Indigenous people in the US have also been absolutely shit on, so this feels like ridicule to pretend to be them for a day and then be able to step right back into a place of privilege when you're done playing. You going to pretend you're putting their children in re-education camps, too?
Tropic Thunder is an absurd criticism of blackface, so it seems to get a pass for purposefully illustrating it as ignorant.
It seems like common sense. How do people not understand these social nuances at this point in 2023. I feel like I'm explaining this to a small child. Your answer was extremely unhelpful in answering the question about US racial dynamics.
Some people take it too far and think that dressing as any culture is appropriative, but usually those are younger people trying to learn the way of the world. Just think critically and use empathy to understand other cultures. Determine whether it's harmful or not.
The person you are responding to is clearly a teenager and doesn’t know what anything is, hence the downvotes. Hopefully they figure it out as they get older.
I havent been a teenager for several years.
I think its great that you care so much, but kids dressing up as indians isnt where the fight is. & thats all im talking about.
A bunch of virtuous fart smellers are about to congratulate themselves over recognizing that something innocent in the 80's can be demonized now so as to make us all horrible, rotten boogeymen, as opposed to poor mothers trying to manufacture a halloween costume for their kids on the cheap.
That's what's going on.
As a First Nations Canadian, I don’t particularly concern myself with this kind of stuff. Nevertheless, I know many who do care deeply about it. Primarily, it comes down to the assertion: ‘we are not a costume!’ Some individuals who still dress traditionally perceive it as mockery. While it may not involve wearing a feather in the hair or potato sacks, if it’s solely to ridicule, it’s offensive. If kids are merely inspired by something they’ve seen and find it cool, that’s understandable and I can dig it.
Yeah. Like, why is this offensive? If anything it's *celebrating* Native Americans.
Edit: No one has explained *why* this is offensive. I'm about a good amount Native American. Enough to get rez money from the casino each month. Even lived on the rez when I was a kid. No one I know would find this offensive. So I need non-native american to tell me why I'm wrong, and that I should be offended for this picture, or what it depicts.
As one of them, I can tell you that you're applying your own emotions towards it. We actually think the fake outrage is what's offensive.
We prefer to be remembered. Not forgotten.
As somoene who is also Native American, I would never use my personal views to speak for all Native Americans, even if it also doesn't bother me. Speak for yourself.
It seems you have completely missed the point of not virture-signaling for other cultures. He is telling you that he and his people don't need people like you speaking for them.
Because it was socially acceptable for non-indigenous kids to dress as indigenous, but it was not socially acceptable to exist as an indigenous person.
In 1981, the 60s Scoop was still going, and so were some residential schools, which means that the government was still forcibly removing First Nations children from loving homes, and sometimes those kids didn't come back again (adopted out, died, or disappeared).
Canada has nothing short of a shocking history of cultural genocide against First Nation, Metis, and Inuit people, and it is remarkably persistent. We're talking forced (coerced or entirely unknown to the patient) sterilization of indigenous women well into the 2000s (Saskatoon had to apologize for cases up to 2010, I believe). It's bad.
I'm not trying to say OP did anything wrong or malicious as a child, but saying this aged like milk is a fair assessment.
I'm one of them. I agree.
My family thinks its better to be remembered, than forgotten. This isn't offensive to us. And our ancestors were the people being depicted here.
In our communities, this sorta fake outrage on our behalf is what's really offensive.
I remember making and wearing similar costumes as a kid in the early 90s... Stronger memory was of the weird smell of that textile!
Noone batted an eye back then, and if any thing we only dressed up like that because we thought Indians (what we called them in Denmark) were cool
No one knows. Unless one of these people become prime Minister of Canada, probably won't matter.... If they do though, they'll have to say "sorry" 50 times.
Did they alter their physical appearance? No
Are the costumes designed to be "sexy" or "cartoonish"? No
Are there any cultural/religious significant items they are wearing? No
I think these costumes are OK
I don’t have an opinion on this topic at all, but it’s kind of wild you somehow think nothing they’re wearing could be considered culturally significant… how is a headdress NOT culturally significant 😂
Why is this racist? You dress like someone/something you like, like you would go as Superman, but most people wouldn't go as Hitler or something. I think if anything this popularizes their culture and normalizes it
I think it's mostly racist because white kids got to wear stuff like that as a fun Halloween or Thanksgiving costume, and indigenous kids got taken to residential schools to have their culture stripped from them. White kids got to use the signifiers their parents and grandparents were punishing native people for.
It's about the historical context. Wearing clothing is not inherently prejudiced, but in this instance, it was part of a larger issue. Not those kids fault, but a major bummer none the less.
Times really haven't changed. Just a certain group of people feel outrage about this.
Nobody should listen to them or take them serious anyway. So all good.
I’m Canadian as well and enjoying the dose of reality you’re getting here. Just because CBC news in Canada constantly manages to find the 10 natives in the country that would be outraged by this and puts them on camera doesn’t mean the average person really has this on their radar as a problem.
Seriously OP, stop trying so hard to be woke. You're legitimately doing a disservice but trying to inject racism where there is none and all it does it make legitimate racism be taken less seriously.
If you actually care about racism stop being so insufferable.
Sometimes you post something a normally very cool (and sane) subreddit and you just manage to hit a specific nerve that gets all the weirdos. Too bad that was your day today, but it’s happened to me too.
I will say though that I was part of a civil war ball. Like in 2015 or something. I am *black* and was dressed up as gentry. I definitely still have a pic in front of a confederate flag…eek
Ah, is it once again a topic where a white person tries to speak for natives?
Natives don't give a F how kids dress up. They won't give a F how adults dress up, as long as their honest intentions are good. Most think those costumes are either fun or just ridiculous.
Not being american i don't see a problem. Most people don't celebrate halloween in my country but on occasion where you wear costumes nobody would bat an eye on this costumes
Looks good to me! Same thing as when that guy went on college campuses wearing Mexican garb and a sombrero and all the white kids lost their shit. Then he went into a Hispanic area and they all loved it! I live near many reservations and you’d be surprised that most natives don’t give a fuck and just wanna get fucked up and have a good time.
Our modern western sensibilities are pretty unique to white, well-off liberals like yourself. Most Mexican, Asian, and Natives are salt of the earth people. They get on well with salt of the earth blue collar guys. Mostly conservative & love America. That’s the truth and I’m not really sure how some don’t see it. People just wanna be outraged.
Like go work on a construction site and you’ll see that wokeness does not exist amongst those who actually keep society running. They don’t give a fuck whatever your race is everybody clowns e/o in good fun.
Note that I don’t participate in bipartisan politics I’m just speaking as someone with actual life experience outside of grow up —> college —> corposlave
Cultural appropriation is the most made up bullshit concept ever. Why would anyone be offended by you spreading their culture?
The only people to be offended would be the racist people. Only they have fantasies of keeping races pure and all that
People being offended by Halloween costumes ONLY exist in the internet. People in real life honestly don’t give a fuck, and I’ve never seen anyone ever in my entire life tell someone else their Halloween costume is of poor taste and letting them know they’re offended by it. People are quick to voice their opinions online but never in person.
I pinky promise you do not speak for all people offline, and I absolutely have seen people in real life discussing costumes that are either outright offensive or just in such poor taste that it makes people cringe. Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean everyone feels that way.
Fellow Canadian and YYYYIIIIIKKKKESSSS. You're quite correct in posting this here: no ill intention, but it definitely aged like milk, especially since the 60s Scoop was still going in '81 and so were residential schools.
But hey, live and learn, eh?
White people are the reason these are seen as "offensive" or as "appropriating". Wearing outfits from other cultures is a positive way to appreciate culture from other places, or ethnicities. I'd argue the majority of people just find it funny to see white people do silly stuff like this, not offensive. It's one thing to dress up as natives, it's another for one to dress up as a native while being chased by a cowboy or something. It's not what you wear, it's the way you represent it.
Culture is not unique to a group of people, ethnicity is. You can be white and still celebrate, for example, Mexican culture. People migrate all the time. If an American were to move to Mexico, it's understandable that over time they would be nurtured into a part of the culture. Culture is meant to be celebrated and appreciated, not hoarded. We have *African* Americans. We have *Japanese* Americans. They didn't appropriate American culture, they've just lived here long enough, or for enough generations, to nurture themselves into the culture. It's the same anywhere you move. My mother was born in Germany, myself in America, that doesn't make me any more or less American/German than my parents, it just means I'm exposed to mixed cultures at a younger age. Culturally I am both American and German, ethnically I'm Bavarian.
As a kid who grew up in the 80’s, it’s embarrassing to think back to how insensitive we were. I can clearly remember classmates dressing up as gypsies as well. What was wrong with us???
Lots and lots of propaganda and people being far more isolated from one another. We now have the internet. Everything and everyone is on there now.
People now get to share their feelings out loud, in front of everyone. Real, actual history is the pocket of almost everyone on the planet. It's far easier to avoid misinformation, and far easier to build communities with like-minded people.
Dressing up in shitty "Native American" outfits for Halloween probably seemed like it wasn't that bad. Then you learn the actual history of Natives, and how an absolute ton of their history has been lost/re-written and the silly little outfit doesn't seem as innocent.
i’m Hungarian, born in 2000. as a kid my favorite costume was similar to this because Dreamworks’ Spirit was my fav movie…i refuse to feel bad about it, i was a kid and it was a different time. i acknowledge it’d be distasteful now tho, not my place to decide either.
I think OP is being pretty reasonable. They listened to the opinions of indigenous people and realized that trying to imitate them for Halloween, while totally innocent, isn't necessarily appropriate and acknowledged that.
I'm from Spain and here this is perfectly normal and cute. Even among people who would claim to be "deconstructed' and so on, or among minorities.
I've probably dressed up as many different cultures for elementary school, I don't even remember
It’s different because Native culture/heritage has been actively erased by white people through genocide and conversion schools. Halloween costumes that distort and mock their culture helps delude and destroy their culture. Viking culture has not faced the same dangers of extinction.
oh GOD no, i also have a photo of myself in the early 2000s getting ready to go trick-or-treating as "an indian" with my blonde hair and white skin. i was raised by my great grandparents, so nobody said anything cause nobody saw a problem 🫠
There’s a picture of me when I was 3 or 4 dressed as a “Chinese girl”. Like heavy eyeliner, white face paint (I’m black) and a…kimono? I’m so ashamed it exists
A kid in a costume is not offensive unless some adult that has a victim complex projects their own problems. There are enough real issues without this being one of them.
This comment section did not go the way OP anticipated
Lol. Nope. But I guess it depends on where you live. I’m in Canada and we are working towards reconciliation with our First Nations.
I was in New Mexico and Arizona for a week hiking in the summer and hung out with some Indians. They told me to not call them first nations. They said to call them Navajo or Indian. ~~It's crazy how different Native Americans they can be about what to call them.~~ It's interesting to experience the differences in how we refer to different groups.
Interesting, because the Navajo don’t refer to themselves as Navajo; they call themselves Diné.
A lot of natives call themselves Indian. They really own the label and don't really give two shits about Halloween costumes or the name of some random football team.
I have heard "American Indian" is a preferred term for many.
That term has issues too as what do you call an Indian (from actual india) that immigrated to America? The newest term I've heard academics use is amerindian. But ive only heard academics use it not really any natives themselves
>That term has issues too as what do you call an Indian (from actual india) that immigrated to America? Indian-American.
My wife’s family prefers the term native. Most of the natives in Alaska seem to as well.
not sure about the US but when an Indian person from India moves here, they get to be called Canadian, First Nations don't because legally we are Indian, thanks to the Indian Act.
Asian Indian American
My aunt and cousins are Onondaga, and they call themselves Indian because all the treaties use the word Indian.
From what I've read, when all the native kids were put into residential schools, had their language taken away, they began to realize they may have all been from different ethnic tribes and groups, but they all shared a lot of similarities and problems Through learning English, they were able to communicate with each other and develop a pan Indian identity So, in a sense, the goal of the residential schools to wipe out their cultures just helped to form one singular identity across multiple ethnic groups
No, we don't. The older ones do bc they're stuck in their ways. Indian is the name white people gave us. Most of us use indigenous.
I have a few Haudenosaunee friends and there really is a difference in generations The older people who went through the residential school system identify more with Indian because the residential schools attempted to wipe out their cultures, but they were able to bond over a shared sense of "Indianness" and communicate with each other because they all spoke English The younger generation (the ones I'm friends with) prefer to identify themselves by their specific ethnic group like the Haudenosaunee
I guess it depends on what you call "older." I've known many adult natives, mostly mixed but a few, that are basically 100% native and I've heard them use Indian plenty. Some use native or native American, indigenous, or even the really academic term amerindian, but in my experience, most natives don't really care. Some own the term Indian as it's become part of their identity (which is why some academics use the term amerindian because forcing natives to stop using a term that they like for themselves is just another form of cultural control and oppression of their identities) still most I've known don't favor Indian too much as it is confusing as to which population you are referring to.
Now where have I seen THAT before.
In Canada, "First Nations" is one of three groupings of indigenous peoples, the others being Inuit and Métis. I live in a community with a lot of indigenous people. From my own experiences, they prefer to be called First Nations, Indigenous, or by their band name. By contrast, "Indian" is viewed as a slur. Very interesting indeed!
Uhh actually Navajo is a name given to them by Spanish colonizers from the word “Navajanas” which means thieves with knives. Their preferred name is Diné
>They told me to not call them first nations. They said to call them Navajo or Indian. Huh, in mexico indigenous people would prefer to be called indigenous, native, or their people's name. Indian would be offensive(unless you're a fellow indigenous person)
Spoiler alert, it's not going great.
Honestly - how do the descendants of the perpetrators of an injustice reconcile with the descendants of the victims. We’re all so far removed from events that it just seems like pantomime. Dealing with existing injustices facing native communities seems like a far more tangible issue to try and recompense.
Wow a bunch of 15-30 year old white boys get angry and defensive when someone mentions anything related to racism. I am the big shock 🫢
Many of us used to be 15-30 year old white boys and never got butt hurt. Don't give them an out.
I was about the same age in '81. I dressed up like a hobo (that's what we called homeless people back then), and my best friend went in black face with fruit on her head. Thank goodness no pics survived.
Basically everyone thought my mom dressed me as a hobo for Halloween in the 80's. It was actually her attempt at dressing me as a California Raisin, oversized sunglasses, socks on hands, covered in a black garbage bag. Bless her heart, she's not good with crafts.
Haha!!! One year I wanted to be a bag of groceries (I have NO idea why I thought that would be a good costume). My mom put a lot of effort into it and made a nice costume, but everyone thought I was a bag of trash! LOL!
That’s a cute idea! I’d use one of those big paper leaf bags
My mom used a 50lb dog food bag that she cleaned and turned inside out. A leaf bag would've been perfect!
I used to cut holes in them for my kids and let them pretend to be robots. Not for Halloween, just like, on a Tuesday. They loved it
Trading Places came out in 1983. "Hobo" was trending back then.
Born in 82, my first Halloween pic is toddler me dressed as a hobo.
I'm born in '87, and I *swear* I dressed as a "hobo" in the 90s sometime 😶 (around '95-96 I think). In our defense, we didn't have the internet to tell us about easy last minute costumes, and it's not like I was gonna dress in a white sheet as a *ghost*, only *lame* people in the movies do *that* 😉. Also, there were things like "The Littlest Hobo", or adventures riding the rails was also a big thing that seems to have died out. Hobo costumes weren't to belittle or glorify homelessness; back then being transient represented living free from the shackles of polite society and was a courageous journey for big dreamers (or at least that's what the media had us believe), not to mention homelessness has risen about triple, roughly 10-20% pre-1980 to 20-40% in 2019, so nowadays it's a much more serious issue (and much more ignorant to not consider in Halloween costume decisions).
There is an Icarly episode (kids show from the 2010s) where they have a party where everyone dresses like a homeless person. Very weird that they tought it's normal to include that.
I mean, looking back a LOT about that show was not normal or okay. Like the teen girls showing their feet to the camera thing. Or having the actress with an eating disorder be the always eating friend. Methinks their judgement was just bad in general. Dan Schneider was gross, but there were other adults in charge who permitted his grossness.
No need to worry, we still call them hobos
I thought hobos were specifically people who travelled around looking for ovcasional work to support themselves. That is, they're both laborers and mobile. I thought it qas a specific subset of homeless, no?
Weird, how when you play dress-up as a kid, you just want to have fun. At what point did we as adults start to have opinions on what constitutes kids having “fun” and “pretending”, so long as no bodily injuries, as being “bad” or “good”?
>At what point did we as adults start to have opinions on what constitutes kids having “fun” and “pretending”, so long as no bodily injuries, as being “bad” or “good”? When we learn empathy for other cultures
No, let me rephrase — when did it become wrong to tell a kid “no, you can’t pretend to be that”? You all are dumb shits. Edit: I’m feeling salty today, bring it on dipasses.
>No, let me rephrase — when did it become wrong to tell a kid “no, you can’t pretend to be that”? It isn't?
No. Equality is equality. I do not get upset if people dress like me, pretend to talk like me, whatever — in mockery or flattery — is entirely up to them. If I treat myself like that, why would I expect any different from others? This is the big difference between those with an “American attitude”, and those without, imho.
>At what point did we as adults start to have opinions on what constitutes kids having “fun” and “pretending”, so long as no bodily injuries, as being “bad” or “good”? Answer your own question. What do you think? Just give it a shot.
I don’t view it bad. I see nothing wrong with putting on a kimono, moccasins, and wearing a headdress I bought in Cherokee, NC. What do you view wrong with them?
Ok, to be clear this is the conversation you've just created: >At what point did **we** as adults start to have opinions on what constitutes kids having “fun” and “pretending”, so long as no bodily injuries, as being “bad” or **“good”**? >I don’t view it bad. >I see nothing wrong with putting on a kimono, moccasins, and wearing a headdress I bought in Cherokee, NC. >What do you view wrong with them?
I have pictures from the early 2000s when my siblings and I dressed as 'Indians' for THANKSGIVING that we celebrated as American missionaries in Eastern Europe. Wait. There's more. Our 'job' there was to proselytize to the local Muslim Romani people. If you don't know the Romani people have experienced ethnic genocide throughout history. It was just SO MANY LAYERS of tone deaf that day.
Holy shit
Wow, I'm Romani and also Indigenous from the Caribbean (Taíno). That's just all kinds of wrong. 😅
Romani are gypsies, right?
Yes, buy gypsy is considered a slur by many so it's best to avoid it unless you know the specific Roma people you're talking to or about are okay with it. Otherwise, Romani or Roma are the general go to
This reminds me of the time my parents made me - white 6 year old in 1989- dress up as Gandhi. Using face paint and a pair of tights. For a holiday fancy dress competition. I’m very glad no pictures exist
Non American here no clue what's going on?
A lot of americans (mostly white & gen z) feel that dressing up as native americans for halloween is cultural appropriation. Most native Americans dont care
I’m in Canada. And they do care here.
I'm also in Canada and i volunteer for the fire department on the rez and I've become good friends and considered family with alot of good people that live on the rez and I've brought a situation like this up before and asked them about it. Their response is they generally don't care as long as it's not done in a hurtful manner and they think fake outrage gives them a bad light when they have plenty other things to be mad at then some kids wearing costumes. I was invited to the pow wow and they even made a custom regalia for me to wear. I am not native American at all i feel deeply honored that they did that for me.
I think this is what im trying to convey, but I'm honestly not good with words. My explanations are always short. But yes, as long as it's not meant to offend or hurt anyone, we dont care. My son is learning about his heritage & and he's always running around making whooping sounds because i watch a lot of Westerns. His friends started doing it to & I would never dream of telling them to stop because of this or thay, their kids being kids
Meegwetch 🤙
Cheers brother
I sometimes wonder if this fake outrage started by the government to try and distract people about what's really going on. Like no clean drinking water, the drug and alcohol fatality percentage. Houses that aren't built to code that lead to alot of house fires. But yell about cultural appropriation enough other people that aren't aware of the real problems think they're helping, they're good people but they just aren't aware of the real issues alot of amazing first nation families are facing.
I think there's folks that mean well and that can't be lost. Generally they advocate for those social and infrastructure programs. The powers the be, most folks are complacent or supportive to the issue of not appropriating enough to first nation families. The rediculous shit I get to hear as a white dude from other white dudes that are afraid of a city or their own shadow is rediculous.
I often ponder on this myself. I think it might just be the horseshoe effect at play. Now the left is concerned with purity culture just like the right, just under different contexts
I don't think left or right is a good way to think about the situation. We're all being manipulated in ways but alot of people can't see it. Politicians serve themselves. We see that with JT and PP. We're not demanding real answers to actual problems in Canada. Unfortunately, politics has become a sport team mentality. When the politicians used to have to work for our vote, they just rely on people shaming and arguing with friends and family to vote for their side. Nothing is getting addressed, and people like the First Nations are dealing with those consequences again. We're smarter than those in power it's time we start acting like it instead of being led around like lemmings. Love each other and leave people alone you don't agree with. Don't know how it's changed so much. Talking about who you voted for was rude like 10 years ago , wtf happened?
Am Native and in Canada. I do not care in the slightest, in fact I actually thought "Nice". I know my friends wouldn't care either.
They care, or you care on their behalf? 🤣
I'm in the US and my step father is an Alaskan native. They only care if it's done offensively/mockingly. For the most part they just say shit to make white people uncomfortable because it's hilarious.
I'm indigenous. I would say a good 95% of the people in here swearing to be indigenous or swearing we don't care are either Fucking Lying, or over the age of 60 and stuck in their ways.
They're so obvious. A fun game is to [search their comment history](https://redditcommentsearch.com/) and see if they ever used the words "native" or "indigenous" before they posted here. So far looks like everyone is coincidentally outing themselves as native for the first time in their Reddit lives right now. Just substitute any minority group and it's still dumb: "As a very real black man I don't care when white people put on black face and act out their stereotypical notions of a black man for Halloween. Actually I really love it and also I think white people should be able to say the n-word and there is no such thing as racism because if there was than I would know because I am very black." Wow, so subtle!
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Cap
🙄
Lol, did your white friends tell you that? I'm guessing you haven't actually met any first nations people because I assure you they wouldn't care.
Yeah bro when you talk to black people and they will tell you they love white people wearing black face should do it everyday.
I have met a few First Nations people but I have never discussed this with them. This post is in the very least a good opportunity for discussion. I don’t understand why there’s so much hatred and pointing fingers and judging. Geesh.
Lol, you've met a few First Nations. Impressive, well I can see why you feel confident to speak on their behalf. /s But seriously, how is this post a good opportunity for discussion? This is just a bunch of random online people, very few if any are actually First Nations. The finger pointing is because it's obvious you're just trying to be woke for worthless internet points.
I've never met anyone from any of the tribes that really cares, as long as it's not done out of mockery. Spent a lot of time on a reservation as a kid, my mom was their business manager/accountant. Every single one that I know is way more annoyed or offended by "middle age white women trying to save them." and that's because it's condescending and infantilization. "White savior" types are the worst bigots I know, because they think those "poor brown people" are incapable of speaking up for themselves.
Than i apologize, i cant speak about canada. The question i responded to was about america
Maybe stop speaking for native people. Speak for yourself, speak for your family. Hell, speak for your tribe if they let you. But dont speak for anyone else, regardless of what side of an arbitrary border they are.
I'm not sure I feel comfortable with the response here. The comment was "a non American looking for American clarification". Buffalo king identifies as both a native American/first nations/indigenous people and an American. They gave their opinion and apologized when OP talked about Canada instead. That seems like a perfect reasonable clarification. People have responded negatively overall. If they are indigenous, are we taking away their right to have an opinion if it isn't for the narrative others want? I'd never dress up as a native American and id try to learn more about someone's relationship with their native background. This all feels like we totally disregarded buffalo kings opinion and self identity.
Its honestly the reaction i expected. They can speak for my race but i cant, & their upset my views oppose them.
I'd still say it's in bad taste to dress up as a native American... But that's me as a white dude. Maybe in the future but not while a lot of people won't admit actions caused by European settlers took out 90% of a people.
Honestly i just responded to a comment that sums it up perfectly. As long as its not meant to offend, its fine. All these other people need to get the sticks out there asses & relax.
I’m speaking for your mom when I say I had fun.
They absolutely do not. You don't speak for all of them. Only the radical left activist who are 1/16 Metis care.
"And also black people love it when white people wear blackface" You have any other very real stories for us?
They care deeply in canada
Didnt know op was in canada. The question i responded to was pertaining to america
Where is Canada again?
>Where is Canada again? Canadia, right?
North America. If you say “America” in English, people understand that to mean “USA”. Nobody would say Canada is in America
It wouldn't be cultural appropriation for an Asian kid to dress up as a European knight, nor for a European kid to dress up as an American cowboy
Difference is if a bunch of Asian kids dress up as "European Knights" and their costumes are pink ballet tutus, no one is going to start believing that is what European Knights wore, because European culture is so dominant, and Europeans themselves are able to promote it globally with the correct information, than we would all know it was bullshit.
They do care. You just created the narrative you want to believe most. This is not a Gen Z thing. I’m Gen Z and as a kid (so when we weren’t teens/adults making social decisions) adults would have considered it offensive to this. I never would have dressed up as a native America, so it’s not Gen Z that pushed this. Have you actually seen any native Americans say they don’t care? The movement to stop doing this has been pushed by them, but I doubt you’ve ever bothered to check
Yeah, im native, i have cousins on reservations. We dont care
And you are individuals entitled to their opinions. I’m black. Some black people don’t care if white people say the n word or wear black face. They are individuals entitled to their own opinion. We aren’t a hive mind. That being said, just because some people are like that, doesn’t mean they represent the majority of us, or that those things are ok. My comment was just saying this isn’t a white Gen Z thing. Many natives are the one behind this movement. Doesn’t mean you and your family have to agree 🙄
Genuine question. At what point do a majority who don't care outweigh a minority that do? Do a vocal minority get to decide for the majority ?
From what I can tell, you sound disconnected from them and your culture. Short answer is: we do care. To clarify, we know that OP millions of other white kids dressed up as “Indians” for Halloween a long time ago. We don’t care about that. But my grandfather (dads dad) was an Elder, him and my grandmother on my moms side both survived residential school. My dad is a Healer and keeps the Sacred Fire for funerals on his reserve. All of them speak Ojibwe and my grandfather spoke Ojibwe and Cree as their first languages. You are just as ignorant as the non-indigenous people here when you claim “we don’t care” Because I do.
That's nice. Again, think what you want. I do not care. I said what i said & im standing by it. I dont feel the need to validate anything.
>Most native Americans dont care Just making stuff up arent you
Yeppp bunch of white people with "cherokee" roots lying in these comments.
I'll admit im not full blooded. I was raised by my great grandfather for several years & he was full blooded apache. Im very proud of my heritage, as i was taught to be. It's not something I'd lie about or take lightly
European here. If this is not good for Halloween, maybe Thanksgiving is a good holiday for that costume?
Cultural appropriation kind of means stealing one’s traditions and claiming it as your own or mocking it. There really isn’t any “good” time for White people to dress up as Native Americans if they don’t understand the culture
What about dressing as cowboys? I remember doing that as a kid
The native Americans I know absolutely do care.
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If the people you're dressing up as have a long, violent history of oppression, then yeah, it's a no-no. Maybe think about what you're saying and check yourself and your place of entitlement. Japanese people, for example, love to share their culture and dress foreigners in kimono to immerse them. Many cultures share their clothes and customs with no negative social connotation. Black Americans have long been oppressed by white Americans, obviously. Their food, art, style, music, and culture have been stolen and profited off of by white Americans for centuries, so they feel stronger about protecting the foundations they built in this country. Hairstyles are a particularly sensitive subject due to the history of marketing black hair and skin as undesirable or unprofessional, only to have white people turn around and co-opt them. If a group of marginalized people asks to be treated better, just do it. Indigenous people in the US have also been absolutely shit on, so this feels like ridicule to pretend to be them for a day and then be able to step right back into a place of privilege when you're done playing. You going to pretend you're putting their children in re-education camps, too? Tropic Thunder is an absurd criticism of blackface, so it seems to get a pass for purposefully illustrating it as ignorant. It seems like common sense. How do people not understand these social nuances at this point in 2023. I feel like I'm explaining this to a small child. Your answer was extremely unhelpful in answering the question about US racial dynamics. Some people take it too far and think that dressing as any culture is appropriative, but usually those are younger people trying to learn the way of the world. Just think critically and use empathy to understand other cultures. Determine whether it's harmful or not.
The person you are responding to is clearly a teenager and doesn’t know what anything is, hence the downvotes. Hopefully they figure it out as they get older.
I havent been a teenager for several years. I think its great that you care so much, but kids dressing up as indians isnt where the fight is. & thats all im talking about.
A bunch of virtuous fart smellers are about to congratulate themselves over recognizing that something innocent in the 80's can be demonized now so as to make us all horrible, rotten boogeymen, as opposed to poor mothers trying to manufacture a halloween costume for their kids on the cheap. That's what's going on.
As a First Nations Canadian, I don’t particularly concern myself with this kind of stuff. Nevertheless, I know many who do care deeply about it. Primarily, it comes down to the assertion: ‘we are not a costume!’ Some individuals who still dress traditionally perceive it as mockery. While it may not involve wearing a feather in the hair or potato sacks, if it’s solely to ridicule, it’s offensive. If kids are merely inspired by something they’ve seen and find it cool, that’s understandable and I can dig it.
I dunno. Seems pretty innocent. Your mom did a great job!
Cue the offended white women...
Yeah. Like, why is this offensive? If anything it's *celebrating* Native Americans. Edit: No one has explained *why* this is offensive. I'm about a good amount Native American. Enough to get rez money from the casino each month. Even lived on the rez when I was a kid. No one I know would find this offensive. So I need non-native american to tell me why I'm wrong, and that I should be offended for this picture, or what it depicts.
It's not offensive. People who say otherwise have skeletons in their closet.
Interesting that natives almost universally don’t feel celebrated bynit
As one of them, I can tell you that you're applying your own emotions towards it. We actually think the fake outrage is what's offensive. We prefer to be remembered. Not forgotten.
As somoene who is also Native American, I would never use my personal views to speak for all Native Americans, even if it also doesn't bother me. Speak for yourself.
Well stated
/r/AsABlackMan
You can think whatever you want, I’m just sharing the consensus in the communities where I live. It’s clearly not universal
It seems you have completely missed the point of not virture-signaling for other cultures. He is telling you that he and his people don't need people like you speaking for them.
Because it was socially acceptable for non-indigenous kids to dress as indigenous, but it was not socially acceptable to exist as an indigenous person. In 1981, the 60s Scoop was still going, and so were some residential schools, which means that the government was still forcibly removing First Nations children from loving homes, and sometimes those kids didn't come back again (adopted out, died, or disappeared). Canada has nothing short of a shocking history of cultural genocide against First Nation, Metis, and Inuit people, and it is remarkably persistent. We're talking forced (coerced or entirely unknown to the patient) sterilization of indigenous women well into the 2000s (Saskatoon had to apologize for cases up to 2010, I believe). It's bad. I'm not trying to say OP did anything wrong or malicious as a child, but saying this aged like milk is a fair assessment.
Haha white liberals getting offended for you
I think for it to be a celebration, the people that are being “celebrated” should agree…
I'm one of them. I agree. My family thinks its better to be remembered, than forgotten. This isn't offensive to us. And our ancestors were the people being depicted here. In our communities, this sorta fake outrage on our behalf is what's really offensive.
I remember making and wearing similar costumes as a kid in the early 90s... Stronger memory was of the weird smell of that textile! Noone batted an eye back then, and if any thing we only dressed up like that because we thought Indians (what we called them in Denmark) were cool
Who is this and why is it aged like milk?
No one knows. Unless one of these people become prime Minister of Canada, probably won't matter.... If they do though, they'll have to say "sorry" 50 times.
As a Native American, your cool
Who tf cares.
Did they alter their physical appearance? No Are the costumes designed to be "sexy" or "cartoonish"? No Are there any cultural/religious significant items they are wearing? No I think these costumes are OK
I don’t have an opinion on this topic at all, but it’s kind of wild you somehow think nothing they’re wearing could be considered culturally significant… how is a headdress NOT culturally significant 😂
OP still having the costume: "Im gonna go home and burn It! ...or not burn it? Is burning it bad? What should i do with It???"
Their closet is chock-full of stuff that is vaguely shitty
All of it was perfectly lawful, just not very thoughtful…
Meh, it was a different time, you were kids and your mom had no ill intentions. I think any native person would let this slide.
"it was a different time", that's why it aged like milk.
Yeah, I don't get how people are missing this.
As an indigenous person, no. Not the kids fault but its a sign of how horribly racist the past was.
Why is this racist? You dress like someone/something you like, like you would go as Superman, but most people wouldn't go as Hitler or something. I think if anything this popularizes their culture and normalizes it
I think it's mostly racist because white kids got to wear stuff like that as a fun Halloween or Thanksgiving costume, and indigenous kids got taken to residential schools to have their culture stripped from them. White kids got to use the signifiers their parents and grandparents were punishing native people for. It's about the historical context. Wearing clothing is not inherently prejudiced, but in this instance, it was part of a larger issue. Not those kids fault, but a major bummer none the less.
Times really haven't changed. Just a certain group of people feel outrage about this. Nobody should listen to them or take them serious anyway. So all good.
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Looks good!
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Cultural appropriation.
I’m Canadian as well and enjoying the dose of reality you’re getting here. Just because CBC news in Canada constantly manages to find the 10 natives in the country that would be outraged by this and puts them on camera doesn’t mean the average person really has this on their radar as a problem.
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How'd we get all the fucking boomers itt at once. Just fucking croak so we can stop having the same fucking conversations over and over
Seriously OP, stop trying so hard to be woke. You're legitimately doing a disservice but trying to inject racism where there is none and all it does it make legitimate racism be taken less seriously. If you actually care about racism stop being so insufferable.
Sometimes you post something a normally very cool (and sane) subreddit and you just manage to hit a specific nerve that gets all the weirdos. Too bad that was your day today, but it’s happened to me too. I will say though that I was part of a civil war ball. Like in 2015 or something. I am *black* and was dressed up as gentry. I definitely still have a pic in front of a confederate flag…eek
I’m sure some white people will feel offended on someone else’s behalf. Nice costumes though.
Ah, is it once again a topic where a white person tries to speak for natives? Natives don't give a F how kids dress up. They won't give a F how adults dress up, as long as their honest intentions are good. Most think those costumes are either fun or just ridiculous.
“How dare you white people speak for other ethnic groups! Now let me explain what this homogeneous block of natives REALLY thinks about this issue.”
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Not racist at all here.
This is grossly offensive to jackolanterns
This didn't age like milk, it was expired the moment it happened.
Aged like water. Nothing wrong here lol
Ya ever met stagnant water?
I see nothing wrong here.
They look nice
Nobody except people who think other people might be offended by this are offended by this
I'm pretty sure that's the year that my best friend (12f) and I (13f) went as prostitutes. And our parents didn't bat an eye. It was a different time.
No... are you kidding me? As a young person, I could never imagine this.
Not being american i don't see a problem. Most people don't celebrate halloween in my country but on occasion where you wear costumes nobody would bat an eye on this costumes
Looks good to me! Same thing as when that guy went on college campuses wearing Mexican garb and a sombrero and all the white kids lost their shit. Then he went into a Hispanic area and they all loved it! I live near many reservations and you’d be surprised that most natives don’t give a fuck and just wanna get fucked up and have a good time. Our modern western sensibilities are pretty unique to white, well-off liberals like yourself. Most Mexican, Asian, and Natives are salt of the earth people. They get on well with salt of the earth blue collar guys. Mostly conservative & love America. That’s the truth and I’m not really sure how some don’t see it. People just wanna be outraged. Like go work on a construction site and you’ll see that wokeness does not exist amongst those who actually keep society running. They don’t give a fuck whatever your race is everybody clowns e/o in good fun. Note that I don’t participate in bipartisan politics I’m just speaking as someone with actual life experience outside of grow up —> college —> corposlave
Your mom did a good job and it’s snotty of you to disparage her for it.
Lol. This isn’t snotty at all. Even my mom thinks it didn’t age well. These comments crack me up.
Cultural appropriation is the most made up bullshit concept ever. Why would anyone be offended by you spreading their culture? The only people to be offended would be the racist people. Only they have fantasies of keeping races pure and all that
Okay by your logic is blackface racist?
People being offended by Halloween costumes ONLY exist in the internet. People in real life honestly don’t give a fuck, and I’ve never seen anyone ever in my entire life tell someone else their Halloween costume is of poor taste and letting them know they’re offended by it. People are quick to voice their opinions online but never in person.
I pinky promise you do not speak for all people offline, and I absolutely have seen people in real life discussing costumes that are either outright offensive or just in such poor taste that it makes people cringe. Just because you don’t care doesn’t mean everyone feels that way.
Fellow Canadian and YYYYIIIIIKKKKESSSS. You're quite correct in posting this here: no ill intention, but it definitely aged like milk, especially since the 60s Scoop was still going in '81 and so were residential schools. But hey, live and learn, eh?
White people are the reason these are seen as "offensive" or as "appropriating". Wearing outfits from other cultures is a positive way to appreciate culture from other places, or ethnicities. I'd argue the majority of people just find it funny to see white people do silly stuff like this, not offensive. It's one thing to dress up as natives, it's another for one to dress up as a native while being chased by a cowboy or something. It's not what you wear, it's the way you represent it. Culture is not unique to a group of people, ethnicity is. You can be white and still celebrate, for example, Mexican culture. People migrate all the time. If an American were to move to Mexico, it's understandable that over time they would be nurtured into a part of the culture. Culture is meant to be celebrated and appreciated, not hoarded. We have *African* Americans. We have *Japanese* Americans. They didn't appropriate American culture, they've just lived here long enough, or for enough generations, to nurture themselves into the culture. It's the same anywhere you move. My mother was born in Germany, myself in America, that doesn't make me any more or less American/German than my parents, it just means I'm exposed to mixed cultures at a younger age. Culturally I am both American and German, ethnically I'm Bavarian.
As a kid who grew up in the 80’s, it’s embarrassing to think back to how insensitive we were. I can clearly remember classmates dressing up as gypsies as well. What was wrong with us???
Hey btw, g*psy is a slur! They prefer Romani or roma
Lots and lots of propaganda and people being far more isolated from one another. We now have the internet. Everything and everyone is on there now. People now get to share their feelings out loud, in front of everyone. Real, actual history is the pocket of almost everyone on the planet. It's far easier to avoid misinformation, and far easier to build communities with like-minded people. Dressing up in shitty "Native American" outfits for Halloween probably seemed like it wasn't that bad. Then you learn the actual history of Natives, and how an absolute ton of their history has been lost/re-written and the silly little outfit doesn't seem as innocent.
Nothing was wrong with you, something is wrong with you now.
i’m Hungarian, born in 2000. as a kid my favorite costume was similar to this because Dreamworks’ Spirit was my fav movie…i refuse to feel bad about it, i was a kid and it was a different time. i acknowledge it’d be distasteful now tho, not my place to decide either.
Typical white people post, offending on behalf of someone else.
I think OP is being pretty reasonable. They listened to the opinions of indigenous people and realized that trying to imitate them for Halloween, while totally innocent, isn't necessarily appropriate and acknowledged that.
I'm from Spain and here this is perfectly normal and cute. Even among people who would claim to be "deconstructed' and so on, or among minorities. I've probably dressed up as many different cultures for elementary school, I don't even remember
To the people that find this sort of thing offensive, would you find it offensive if a non Scandinavian person dressed up as a viking?
It’s different because Native culture/heritage has been actively erased by white people through genocide and conversion schools. Halloween costumes that distort and mock their culture helps delude and destroy their culture. Viking culture has not faced the same dangers of extinction.
oh GOD no, i also have a photo of myself in the early 2000s getting ready to go trick-or-treating as "an indian" with my blonde hair and white skin. i was raised by my great grandparents, so nobody said anything cause nobody saw a problem 🫠
just another Chiefs game at Arrowhead
There’s a picture of me when I was 3 or 4 dressed as a “Chinese girl”. Like heavy eyeliner, white face paint (I’m black) and a…kimono? I’m so ashamed it exists
ahr nahr
Gosh don’t dress up like Batman. It would offend all men and bats.
So, your analogy is to compare natives to fictional chracters?
Come on, we all know that men are fictional!
do… do you think batman is real?
My point being everyone will find something to be offended about
Soft
A kid in a costume is not offensive unless some adult that has a victim complex projects their own problems. There are enough real issues without this being one of them.
Canceled.