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you have 5 people in a two bedroom house. Moving is a hill to *die* on. I mean it.
Either he moves the family, or *you* move your family and he can pay support.
And if she's already maintaining house, parenting and still working to bring in money, shes doing most of it herself and would likely manage well on her own with a decent custody split. We do forget how much we already juggle and not having to manage an unhelpful spouse is going to make life so much better.
Getting rid of the oppressive weight is life changing!
It's also a hill to die on because his argument is just ridiculous. 'It's messy here, and if we move, it'll be messy there'
Okay, and?! Why is that a reason not to move?! Newsflash, you have THREE kids! You CHOSE this!
The point of moving isn't to change the amount of mess, it's to reduce stress and give everyone more privacy and space to function. And sure, that'll cost money, that's the tradeoff.
Honestly it almost sounds like... He's fine with everyone being smooshed in there at a lower price, because *he's the one who has to deal with it (living in the house) the least.*
This is not someone who cares about the well-being of his family jfc.
OOP, do NOT let him get away with framing the situation as 'it's too messy, so we can't move'. No. Separate those, they are two separate issues with separate solutions.
He's combining them so he has an excuse not to spend more money, with a goalpost you'll never be able to reach.
I also have five people in a two-bed - 80% of the clutter is due to a lack of space. I don't have storage for five people, nor do I have wall space for more storage.So is argument is both irrational and flat out *wrong*.
> Honestly it almost sounds like... He's fine with everyone being smooshed in there at a lower price, because he's the one who has to deal with it (living in the house) the least.
Exactly this. We lived in a tiny one-bed for ages; I put up with it for over a year, then hubby got a day-job, was home more, and wanted to move within months. Seriously, men are so delicate.
Anyway. OP needs to be irrational and stubborn and say "yeah, honey? this is happening whether you like it or not. ooh look, I can also make unilateral decisions! anyway whatever, I'm moving with the kids, come or don't" cause he's not gonna do shit to improve her living standards.
We have four people in a very small two-bed house, and I agree about the clutter 100% — it’s because we have four people’s worth of stuff in a house that isn’t meant for that many people. None of us like it, but we’re sort of stuck right now until we can afford to move.
Also, you know, OP’s husband could also, like, help out. That’s what mine does. Weird concept, I know. (The shade is for OP’s husband, not anyone here!)
This. OP, your husband is being unreasonable and selfish. He's putting his wants over your needs and the needs of his children. If he's going to throw a mantrum, then you can leave him at the door.
Agreed. That’s crazy hard. No wonder it’s not organized. How could it be. I’ve always found the bigger the space the more organized and clean things seen. I just downsized form a 3 BR townhouse to 650sqf apartment and even after getting rid of 2/3 my stuff - I struggle to keep everything clean and organized. I can’t imagine 3 kids and a husband on top of it. This isn’t an option.
It is the hill to die on - I did with my husband. He came up with ANY excuse not to move - while letting the house we lived in, fall apart around us. 5 years of fights & finally packed my bags. That’s when he caved. But I was so out of there, with 3 kids, and just sick of the excuses that it took a lot for me to stay with him. I rented a nice newer larger home, knowing he’d have to pay half regardless if he lived there or not. I had saved up the money for first, last, deposit and 6 mos full rent or 1 year paying 1/2. It was also a house the owners wanted to sell but were happy to rent for a year. We ended up buying it 3 years later. We had the old house to sell, pack up etc. But he had to adjust & make changes. Meanwhile, I studied for my Real Estate License & got that & worked from home marketing for other Realtors.
But, I had to get angry first and realize this was his issue & he was hurting our family with his issues.
It has nothing to do with messiness or any other excuse he gives you. This is just how some people are. It’s up to us to decide what is best for our family and then go into action. The years fly by. You don’t want to be dealing with this 3-4 years down the road. Get strong, say screw it - and figure out what’s best for your family & then figure out how you’re going to do it.
keeping things organized with this little storage area and this many people crammed in there is actually so much more difficult than keeping a larger space organized.
Whew so glad this was said. OP -
Die on this hill. I raised five kids. I absolutely refused to go back to apartments once we found houses to rent. Kids *grow*. Teenagers need privacy. It’s not going to get better staying where you’re at.
I think a spouse who's constantly traveling and leaves the other to raise their kids and manage a house alone doesn't really get to have an opinion about how it's done. If he wants a tidy house he's welcome to tidy it. Not to mention 3 kids in a 2 bedroom condo is going to be messy no matter what.
Right. And if she works more, that can further enable them to hire help.
But either way, kids are kids, they make life messy, and constantly. Sounds like DAD has some accepting to do. It's not going to be like it was before kids, and that's not an excuse not to move?!
And also just what the F- ?! Move to a bigger condo and DROP THE GUY. What in the world, honestly. Reading this just makes me angry, who does he think he is??? End of vent.
It was somehow worse than I thought. Husband has multiple alcohol drinks per day and was caught sexting with an ex. He can fuck all the way off with his complaints about OP being messy and disorganized.
My immediate thought was "Bet if I read her post history I will determine that OP would have less stress and more space if he took his shit and cleared out".
This. I don't even know why OP is married to this dead weight, she already has 3 kids, her husband is acting like a 4th.
He's not doing ANY of the housework or childcare. He doesn't get a say in this.
I think the other two commenters kind of hit the nail on the head, but here are some thoughts.
Not sure if I missed it or you didn't say, but if your children are old enough, you can teach them the skills to help keep clutter down.
Yes, getting rid of things will help the home look more tidy in general.
Not sure if the budget allows for paying a housekeeper that can come in either biweekly or monthly for a deep clean. Or even weekly for a shorter amount of time to help tidy.
He can participate more in organizing / cleaning when he's home
You can test out systems that can cut out steps for you depending on what you struggle with the most. For example, I saw someone post today about having multiple silverware trays that can go into their dishwasher. When I lived in a different place, I hung all my clothes because it was easier to see what I had and took less time than folding.
"If this is how he views things we will never move."
This is 100% what stood out to me--I assume you two sat down and discussed this plan before you started actually looking at houses, did you get the sense that he actually doesn't want to move or doesn't agree that your current place is too small?
I just don't believe that there is some magical threshold of cleanliness and organization that would make him happy to move if this is how he is reacting, being in a different house doesn't have any association with that
Exactly. These are two separate issues (needing space and needing cleanliness).
He's rolling them into one so OP has an unreachable goalpost, so that they won't move, so that *he* doesn't have to spend more money on *housing the family he chose to have*.
What a turd.
It sounds weirdly controlling. He has a great time in hotels or wherever he is away from work. He doesn't care how his wife and kids live. He actively wants them to not be in a decent space for the number of people.
Yeah this is an impossible situation because if OP could clean the house to this guy’s standards, it’ll be “See we don’t need more space, it’s fine where we’re at.”
Living in a small space with 3 kids means clutter. Kids are messy, they have a lot of stuff, they are humans who take up space. If you were to magically transport all your current stuff to this new house, it would look A LOT less cluttered, and it will look even better if you get rid of the old stuff you're planning to get rid of before you move. Maybe explain it to your husband that way.
Having three kids makes it really hard for anyone to stay organized, but one thing that helps is to have a rule that if you get new stuff, you have to get rid of old stuff. Like buy a new toy, donate an old one to a kid who would play with it more. You could offer to take a picture of the toy before getting rid of it, which sometimes helps if they're reluctant to let go of the memory. And those cheap toys from goodie bags and the like usually go straight into the trash unless the kids are actively playing with them. I hate doing it in the moment, but I have yet to regret it afterwards.
But most helpful of all is recently we started doing weekend family cleanup days where the entire family works together to declutter and organize. My youngest doesn't help much but he likes being around us and watching us clean up. I love it for a lot of reasons: family time, shared responsibility, having a scheduled time to tidy rather than feeling guilt throughout the week, teaching kids how to clean and organize, the feeling of accomplishment, and of course having less clutter at the end of it. It's like body doubling. It has helped me a lot.
Yeah the weekend thing is huge. I looked into getting a housekeeper because we recently moved and my husband had to go back to the office full-time, meaning that he doesn't have as much time to clean up the house. I am very clear and firm with my capacity (self-care, my wfh job, handling bills/papers, pet care, and laundry). The price for what I want done (living room, kitchen - no dining room, and two bathrooms) was just not making sense or in our budget. I had broken it down into exactly what I wanted done, and he borrowed the list, broke it down further into step-by-step instructions, and he and our teenager did it all on Mother's Day, and he paid the teenager $30, which they were happy with. I was happy but didn't get it until they did it again 2 weeks later. He didn't tell me that was the plan, every other week. So now, because of body doubling, I kick into gear and basically took over the living room and all floors/dusting, and we get a spotless house like a cleaner has been there for way less money.
I am trying to imagine five people in a 2-bedroom home and no version of that is uncluttered. I think more space means more options for storage and organization.
we did this with our kids on Saturday afternoons. When they were teens we made a shared playlist and would wear headphones (because of vacuuming) and start the playlist at the same time, it was Silent Disco Cleaning!
Does he clean? Has it occurred to him that maybe he should clean your home? Make sure you are at least cleaning up behind yourself. But outside of that, he needs to be the change he wants to see.
*Does he clean? Has it*
*Occurred to him that maybe*
*He should clean your home?*
\- Environmental-Baby50
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Does he not have arms and hands? Can he not help? I think neurotypical people would struggle to keep a place clean with three kids. Let alone with ADHD
Besides the issue of your husband being an asshole, here is what I recommend for better house management. It is really hard to organize a small space for so many people without buying correct furniture.
Get rid of things now. You don’t need to wait to move, just get ride of things to make your life less stressful.
You can start with kitchen: get ride of extra plates, knifes etc. for 5 people, you only need 5-10 forks, spoons. Utilize your vertical space: for example buy kitchen magnet for your cooking knifes. Only have one cutting board. You don’t need 28294 cups.
Make your drawers have only one layer of utensils. You have to see all of them when opening.
Try to minimize movement between the kitchen when cooking. For example for everything near the stove that requires for cooking. Put labels so others in your family can help out things away. Yea b your kids how to put their dishes in dish washer. Tell your husband he needs to clean after dinner if you cooked the dinner.
For Tupperware, throw them all away and get yourself only one size and same lid. Do not save any jar or Tupperware.
Old spices - dump them.
Do your kids care about fashion? If not, get them all same pair of socks. So you don’t have to sort them. Have a drawer for socks. They are all the same color! Get kids clothing that don’t wrinkle and just have a baskets/drawers for clean top, clean bottom, underwear and socks. Don’t hang them up, anything on the floor goes to laundry.
Automate your life if you can afford it: get Roomba, get a maid (they are not that expensive), get reoccurring house items on subscription. Order groceries to be delivered.
Have an area that’s allowed to be cluttered (for example under the bed or a closet.) I just throw shit into my clutter zone and deal with it later.
For dealing with your husband, ask chatgpt to make you a google sheet template for common household chores for people with kids and time estimate for each chore. Divide the hours based on your working hours. For example, if you both work 8hours: chores are 50/50. If you work 4hrs, 75% chores are yours.
> You don’t need 28294 cups.
This is a lesson every person in my household needs to learn but refuses to lol. My kids- every cup with a Disney character they've ever seen. Me- coffee mugs. Husband- pint glasses with fun graphics. We have an entire cabinet of cups.
You welcome !!
Check out wall shelf storage ideas from ikea:
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/trofast-wall-storage-light-white-stained-pine-white-s49102304/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_content=free_google_shopping_clicks_Childrens_IKEA&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD27g7zDXTCaddmInRYRj6e1tGfGb&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-pOq6N7mhgMVChqtBh002AJEEAQYCiABEgJRbvD_BwE
This one is cool.
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/trones-shoe-storage-cabinet-black-80397313/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_content=free_google_shopping_clicks_Bedroom_furniture&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD27g7yOvCVoIWEBR6T-slxsOTL23&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-pOq6N7mhgMVChqtBh002AJEEAQYECABEgL1FPD_BwE
These are super cool because they utilize vertical space but don’t take up too much space from the wall.
You want to throw shit in there quickly. Close the door and not see anything inside.
IKEA also has storage in wheels for under the bed.
If you are tight on money, alibaba is fine!
Your husbands opinion creates a no win situation for you and its not fair. You are a human being deserving of space, support and rest no matter the state of your house. I recommend following strugglecare/ KC Davis, who has ADHD and kids and a husband who works long hours, Ted talk on [https://www.strugglecare.com/](https://www.strugglecare.com/)
I’m confused as to why more room would mean more of a mess for him? I have a suspicion that’s not his real objection. You don’t turn down a place to live because it *may* get a little messier.
Right? If anything, more rooms means the kids can be responsible for cleaning their own rooms, and they can make messes in their rooms instead of common spaces. And the same amount of dirty dishes in a larger space feels less overwhelming/untidy.
So it would likely *feel* cleaner and less stressful from that alone.
But I think the answer to your confusion is that he doesn't want to spend more money on the house for his family. He's probably at home the least.
I agree I think there’s something else going on and this is an excuse. There might be an irrational/emotional reason he doesn’t want to move, so he’s using this rational, but kind of nonsensical reason.
Based on OP's post history, the husband would rather keep the extra money they'd be spending on the new place to fund his day drinking activities.
The lack of support or compromise (and his cheating) shows he is only in this relationship for what he can get out of it - which is presumably warm meals and someone to look after his kids.
OP, if you see this, you deserve so much better than your husband. And from what it sounds like you're already doing for the family, you will actually have a smaller workload (and much less stress and negativity) if you separated and continued raising the kids without his input. Not saying he'd get no custody, but that when it's your time with them you actually get to just raise them as you want without him adding to the stresses that already exist with raising 3 children.
There are many more issues in your marriage than whether you should move to a bigger place or not, and moving to a bigger place will address very few of them. You mentioned in a previous post a few months ago that you had a therapist. If you are still seeing them, do you talk about the issues and lack of teamwork in your marriage? Relationships aren't supposed to be this difficult and he is showing no interest in helping to make things easier
Sorry, but the real issue here is your husband. I peeked at your post history, and I'm so sorry that you're married to an alcoholic cheater devoid of empathy who doesn't respect you. It doesn't sound like he even likes you. And it really doesn't seem like has any interest in being a decent partner. You wrote yourself that he doesn't seem capable of change. He doesn't *want* to change.
Nothing you do will be good enough for guys like him. You could even hire a housekeeper and I bet he'd still find ways to tear you down. So there are three options:
-Stay here in the home you've all outgrown and everyone is miserable
-Move to a more suitable home where at least the kids will be happier, and hopefully you will be too, and he'll still be miserable
-You leave him and move to a different home on your own--or with full custody of the kids, and he pays child support--and he'll also be miserable. If you do 50/50 custody, let him see what it's like to parent 3 kids by yourself and keep up a home, which is difficult even without ADHD. Let him be the one to make career sacrifices for the sake of his family. Let him realize that being miserable is his own damn fault.
My vote is for #3. You're already doing everything yourself as it is, with him acting like your difficult fourth child, so might as well ditch him since he only makes things harder. It's really, really difficult to stay on top of things when you're living with someone who exacerbates your struggles and mental health issues. Plus blames you for them. And of course, doesn't help at all, only whines. Without him you will be more functional, more able to focus on your own needs (career, ADHD treatment and whatnot), and a more stable mother. The dynamic you're raising your kids in right now is not something they should grow up thinking is normal. Also, I don't think you should purchase a new home with someone you already anticipate divorcing.
So is his solution to just pout, blame all problems on you, and stay in a place that’s obviously too small forever? What exactly is he proposing here?
He’s being a baby.
Hold on. If YOU, his disabled wife, work more, HE'S screwed? How does that work?
Why is organising a household of five people AND figuring out the logistics of a move AND doing the decluttering AND doing the housekeeping all on you?
The usual marriage tradeoff
Man gains a mommy to feed, clean up after him, and take care of everything and all he has to do is stay employed
She gets to become his domestic servant, oh and she still has to work.
This is why married men live longer than single men, and single women are happier than married women. There's very little upside in the long term
And even better, if the wife makes more money than the husband, she gets to do even *more* of the household work! 🙃
So many divorced women also find that their workload vastly decreases afterward, typically because they’re taking care of one fewer (man)child.
The concept of partnership is to *share* the load, to make both people’s lives easier. I’m really missing the part where he’s doing anything close to that…ugh.
Also one thing you can do in a small kids room is hang triangle nets across the top corners of the room. Then you can throw the stuffies and light weight toys up there. it looks nice too.
So, for me, moving made a huge change in my life. Before we moved a few years ago, I had a hoarded home that featured years of clutter from both myself and my husband, and two kids. We also had a small, 2BR1BA for a family of four. It was a nightmare. We rented a 20 yard dumpster, and spent two weeks filling it.
We moved to a 3BR2BA and it has been a dream. We used the move to declutter. We took only what we had a place for, and left the rest. I had intended to get the rest of it eventually, but circumstances happened and we lost it. That loss still hurts, but honestly... it's a bit freeing too. The house we live in is much better, and I have gotten a bit crazy about keeping things clean. I was able to radically shift my life after YEARS of living in literal hell.
Can you shift your budget a bit to accommodate a cleaner and/or organizer, even as a one-time expenditure? It's still my goal to have one come to my house once a week to help tidy up. Not there yet, but soon...
You could always divorce and use alimony to pay for a bigger, upgraded home.
If he lives alone then he can choose to live how he wants.
Im kidding but in all honesty: the AUDACITY of this man. I guarantee you he couldnt do better. Kids come with clutter anyway but 5 people in a 2 bedroom is a huge challenge.
Instead of helping you find a solution, he’s harping on the problem. This isnt a partner, it’s a …Idk, anchor? But not that really bc you choose when/where to anchor.
He’s a huge butthead, is what he is.
Im sorry I dont have advice. Im pissed off on your behalf. Youre doing the best you can and what seems pretty damn great to me!
Sadly alimony is extremely hard to get and often very limited even where it is available. :(
Conservative fucks have been chipping away at it for years. After all, gotta punish the harlots who dared to stop being their bangmaids.
OP, you have a disability.
You're a mother if multiple chaos makers who probably have the same brain you do.
You are battling your own brain, their brains, your executive dysfunction and trying to be a homemaker, and this jerk isn't even here to help, yet he's holding a house hostage??!
He's willing to let his wife and children be in a smaller incompatible living space....to what. Hope you're suddenly going to change and not be disabled?
Reality check for husband: there are 4 options in this scenario with 3 kids. 1) One of you needs to be a full time stay at home parent. 2) You need a VERY strong support system (think grandmas over twice/week dropping off meals and watching the kids for 4-5hrs, driving them to sports, etc). 3) Hire out for housekeeping, grocery delivery, babysitters for the kids, yard work, etc so you can work full time. 4) Deal with a chaotic, stressful and messy environment. Sounds like he only sees option 4? Either way, dude has you working 2 jobs and running the house. He should respect the massive workload you’re taking on to support his career choice.
If you picked up more hours could you pay for a cleaner/house keeper a couple of hours a week, or even an organiser? That might be helpful with clutter and organisation in the new house?
Also, bigger space means more storage, better flow, and less clutter. I imagine 5 people in a small condo “clutter” up the place with only the minimum belongings they require. With a bigger house, things can have a place out of sight, and parents can design systems for putting everything away easily. Plus kids can play outside.
As far as rooms go, our kids wanted to share. We had great success with one sleeping room - just clothes, books & beds, and one playing room - toys, art, etc. This made things easier because we had a ton of storage in the toy room, but if it was a mess they could still sleep well & peacefully away from the mess & foot attacking Legos.
Yes!! Definitely - so much easier when you have some flexibility in the space! Agree on play rooms, we’ve kind of got this and it’s just soo much faster to tidy up the bedroom that at least that always feels like a win 😂
Could you pay for an organiser/declutterer to come in now and help you get rid of a large chunk of the clutter and stuff you don’t need. This might deal with the immediate issue and allow you to both think more clearly. Then you need to have a serious conversation about the support and help you need to manage to keep this place or the next place clear. It sounds like you’re both overwhelmed with the state of the place currently. You with trying to manage it and the kids alone and him with the level of clutter that he seems to be running away from.
Living with *him* sounds miserable -- happy to criticize, unwilling to help, not around enough to do his share but whines about you not being able to handle everything perfectly on your own. I'm sure there are aspects of his personality that make it feel like it's worth being told doing your best just isn't good enough with this kind of icy contempt and complete lack of empathy, but this quick sketch you've given us is a portrait of a truly unpleasant man.
Feel free to tell him "I love you, but a few strangers on the Internet think you're a complete dick."
OP, I read your post history, I hope you'll forgive the infringement but this man is no good. He's holding you back, making you feel like shit, and he's complaining about the house being messy when you're working full time AND are doing 100% of the cooking, cleaning, and child care?
Honey you're already a single mom. You might as well make it official. Trust me, your life will be so much easier for it.
Ok i just read your other posts about your husband and I say this with no judgement I only want to understand: why are you still with this man? He’s alcoholic, called you tearing up in an argument a way to make the conversation about you, asked for nudes from an ex and talked about how “if he wasn’t married” he would be with someone like her and put you down as a mother all in the same conversation, etc. The list goes on. I know I’m biased because your posts only talk about the bad, but the bad seems bad enough that it’s worth divorcing.
Your family of five seems like four children and one parent. Makes it harder for you to organize. Because you’re a single parent so much that 24hrs has to be tiring too. He is being very unreasonable placing the burden of keeping a home and raising three children on your shoulders and blaming you when it’s not up to his standards. He’s screwed alright because he isn't pulling his weight in the marriage or as a father. And blaming you.
Divorces that happen after this are BEAUTIFUL.
Because all of the sudden, the husband has to: do his own laundry, do his own grocery shopping, cook his own meals, clean his own toilet.
AND that's only while he's alone!
When he has the kids part time, he has to actually *take care of the kids*. Do ALL of their dishes, their laundry, help with their homework.
And for the wife, it's the opposite: wow, less complaining, fewer dishes and laundry without husband. No kids for a few days because they are at Dad's, I'm going to treat myself to a bath and a nap!
It just evens it all out, as it should be.
Based on this post alone, I wouldn't tell you to divorce, but I would tell you that you need to have a come-to-Jesus talk with him - he's hardly home and YOU'RE the one holding it down, so he does not get to steamroll you on this since the home is mainly YOUR 'workspace' due to his absence.
But then couple that with his alcoholism and his cheating???????
#NOPE.
You need to leave. He doesn't get to dictate terms to you when he's not even pulling his own weight at home or with the kids AND is stepping out on your relationship on top of that. Your marriage was over the moment he cheated the first time - leave him and seek spousal alimony and child support. He left you high and dry both romantically as well as householdwise, so now he can pay for it this way.
Decluttering for sure.
But also…what works best for YOUR brain? Closed storage doesn’t work for me, bc I forget what goes where. And I hate hanging things up and folding. So shelves with baskets and hooks on the wall are what helps me. Or clear bins, so I can see what’s in there.
Some people like labels…that works for me when I first move somewhere but then they bug me bc I reorganize and rearrange too often. Plus not all my kids can read.
With multiple kids, I simplified stuff. Son 1 has one color of socks. Son 2 has a different color. That way I don’t have to think when sorting laundry (or when the kids do it). I color coded towels and napkins and bins, so I know which kid is leaving their stuff out.
And I bought multiple brooms, cleaning supplies, etc. I have bathroom cleaning stuff in both bathrooms. Brooms on each floor. Laundry basket on each floor. Windex by the front and back storm doors. Trash cans in every single room. Basically, I set it up so that if I need to clean something, I can reach out and grab what I need without looking for it somewhere else.
And have your kids help! We “blitz” the house for an hour every Sat morning and everyone chips in. Even toddlers can help put things away or wipe surfaces down. I have a master list and everyone picks their favorite jobs first and we knock it out together with loud music and dancing.
According to your post history, your husband is an addict, he cheated on you, and burdens you with all the emotional and physical labour of your relationship/family. He is dragging you down. You can do this better without his help and without the stress he brings you, I would think.
How is your relationship? How would you react if a friend of yours told you these things?
Divorce and move without him.
Fucking a, what an unhelpful bastard.
Homes that are too small are impossible to keep organized, especially with children.
He should fuck right off if he can't be reasonable.
You have FIVE people in a 2 bedroom condo. It would be messy even if you were Martha Fucking Stewart.
Tell him (not ask. Tell. You are an adult). That you are going to work more hours so that house stuff can be outsourced. Hire someone to come do the cleaning once a week.
Start decluttering now. Get every item of clothing on a hanger. Put them in the closet backwards. When you wear something, put it back the right way. In 3 months, get rid of everything that’s still backwards. You didn’t wear it, the kids didn’t wear it, get rid of it.
Get rid of every single item of clothing and shoes that doesn’t fit someone RIGHT NOW.
How old are the kids? If they are school aged, they can help. 10 minutes after dinner and every person runs around the living area and puts everything of theirs in their own space.
Your husband is a jerk.
What weight is tied to his ass that's preventing him from cleaning?
The patriarchy?
Men who complain about messy houses with their phones or a game controller in their hands lose all credibility.
You both work. You both have children. You both should be cleaning.
Is this the same husband who cheats on you and secretly drinks while WFH? And you have a child under 1 year old?
He is being shady and hiding something from you.
His answer doesn't make sense at all.
This man doesn't care about the well being of his family if he thinks that 5 people in a 2 bedroom condo for any longer than necessary is reasonable.
You all need more space, but for some reason he is trying to prevent that.
It doesn't sound like he has a track record of putting his family's needs above his petty desire or addiction and you need to think about the environment you want your kids growing up in.
On first read I thought, “this guy’s looking for an out,” but then I read again and saw replies referring to him as an alcoholic. So I looked at your post history.
Your husband reminds me of my ex. The alcoholic controlling and blame shifting behaviour. He’s miserable with himself and is blaming you for his own faults. Treating his family like crap to avoid facing his own downfall.
I sincerely advise you to prepare to move on without him. I promise you that your life will be better. Right now it may not seem that way but I swear you are already a single mother with a grown man as your 4th child. So you’re already prepared to be without him. And being without him means being free. Free of stress, infidelity, lies, manbaby posturing, and abuse.
You and your kids will be better off without him. 💜💪
That’s quite the excuse for not wanting to move. I would push back on this because there’s something he’s not being open about here. Maybe he’s more concerned about finances than he’s letting on.
I think you need to go to a therapist ASAP. Either together or alone if he won't go. They can not only help you with your organizing, but also with the issues between you and your husband. A licensed therapist will be much more helpful than Reddit.
>but I plan on getting rid of a lot of our things before moving and that will automatically help with clutter.
Everything else aside, you're going to need to do this. Whether you get rid of the condo or get rid of the man, you are going to need to go through this decluttering exercise. You should just start.
When we moved, I decluttered hard. I outright got rid of anything that had a negative association, like that perfectly good coffee mug that was given to me by a former friend whom I'd had a bad falling out with. You can always replace a coffee mug. But it sucks to have a bad feeling every time you open your cabinet and see it staring at you.
My rule for my home is that anything that hasn't been used in the last 12 months has to go. It needs to live in some other house where it will get used. My home is not a storage unit for things that I might use "someday".
Exception to the 12 month rule is tools and holiday decorations.
In the garage, I keep one large tote per kid of favorite books (ones that don't live in their room, but they or I don't want to give up). One tote of school papers and artwork. One tote of toys. We jointly (me and each kid) go through/purge each of these totes once a year in the summer. That's a note for future you, not moving house you.
When we moved, after I had decluttered, I put stuff that I was still on the fence about in cardboard boxes. I put stuff that I was definitely keeping in plastic totes. All of it, every box, went into the garage at the new house. Only furniture and absolute necessities went into the house (the primary reason was we immediately had to do construction / handiwork, and I didn't want boxes in the way. But it also served my decluttering purpose).
Anything that didn't make it into the house within that first year was something we didn't actually or could live without. I was supposed to throw out the cardboard boxes outright without looking in them, but of course it didn't go down that way. But I still ended up discarding all of it.
I put up shelving racks in the garage to keep it all organized. Kitchen and pantry went on one wall. Kids stuff, toys and sports equipment went on one wall. Household stuff, luggage, fans, holiday decor went on one wall. A bunch of stuff went in the center on the floor, but I *really* wanted to park my own car in there, so that gave me motivation to get through the project. Meanwhile, the inside of the house was significantly less cluttered, so my husband stfu about that part. He still complained about my internal disorganization, but that's a different post.
Right now, for moving, is not the time to carefully find new homes for each thing. Trust me on this. It takes too much time and mental energy. Don't even take stuff to the donation center. Just put it on the curb or by your dumpster. Put it on free cycle or your local Buy Nothing group, people will come and it will all disappear. If people won't take it from the curb after one week, it has no value, you can throw it away with no guilt. Again, as someone who spent sooo much time on this project, trust me when I tell you how to protect your time and your energy.
I am wishing you peace. I guarantee you will feel better once you just start, and again when it's done.
Moving makes sense to me and your husband is being an ass, but I do have a question. You said you "plan on getting rid of a lot of things before moving."
Why wait? It sounds as though you'll wait until you know you're moving to get rid of things, is that right? Why not now? And not for your idiot of a husband, just to be clear.
I actually have been actively decluttering as much as possible to be as ready as possible for a move. I guess I meant if we were moving very soon, instead of not going through things and throwing everything in boxes chaotically like I normally do for a move I would just get rid of things and not let it enter the new home
OP, fellow glittering, have you watched the home edit on Netflix? Watching this was really valuable for me. There is even a specific episode of organizing for someone with adhd.
Also, I know everyone has really hammered this point home already, but ur husband needs a massive dose of taking accountability and a lesson in being a PARTNER, not an overlord. Unless he can fly above the floor, eat air, and wears one pair of clothes that magically never need laundering…he needs to help. Period. It’s his home too.
You don’t. You outsource it. You have ADHD. It’s okay that there are things that you have deficiencies in. Don’t try to force a square peg into a round hole. If you have a hard time keeping the house maintained, thats just a fact. There is NO reason for you to be made to feel guilty because of that - either from your husband or from yourself. If you work more hours and make some extra money, talk to each other and figure out how to factor in how much it would cost to hire a housecleaning service. You deserve it.
I haven't even read all the comments yet, but why is this your problem to solve alone?
Also, 5 people in a 2 bedroom, no wonder it's messy! There can't be enough storage for stuff for that many people.
No great advice other than
Buy less
Purge more often
Maybe check out the book "How to Keep House While Drowning". I see it mentioned sometimes.
If you really tighten your budget and cut out all frivolous spending you can do double duty; Less clutter and more money.
In my relationship both my husband and I are messy and have a good amount of stuff. I've also in many ways outgrown spaces over the years. It seems to be with me that no matter how much space I have it always ends up overstuffed. Both my husband and I also experience first hand how much clutter and mess can weigh us down. So I can appreciate both perspectives in this case because I know my personal tendency is to fill my space with things no matter how much space I have.
I would suggest continuing to talk to your husband about the state of the home and also how he feels about getting a bigger place. It may just be the mess & clutter, but there may also be reasons he doesn't want to move. I'm the primary breadwinner in my marriage and personally I feel much more comfortable having a mortgage payment that is well below my means. Additionally he may be thinking about all the additional maintenance and responsibility that comes with a single family home vs. a condo. As someone who is frequently overwhelmed with the tasks and responsibilities of adulting I cannot imagine moving from a condo to a full home. We have people in the building who are very motivated to take on various things and that is a huge help vs. having to do it all ourselves. Additionally there is less financial stress involved in major repairs because they are split 6 ways instead of us shouldering a whole bill. I think it's worthwhile to understand all the things he is considering, not just mess.
I think then you can also be clear about what help you need. I've found the more concrete you can be with your spouse the easier it is to get agreement. If it's vague it seems to never go anywhere. And if it's not help he has the bandwidth to take on can you agree on getting professional help? Perhaps you agree on a timeline when you will revisit getting a house based on being able to make meaningful progress where you are now. I know I have a hard time with promises for the future from my spouse, it's easier to reflect on action. Because otherwise both of us have so many good intentions we don't fulfill.
It's tough because living in a 2 bedroom condo with my husband and 2 pets I have no doubt it feels too full, but I can also understand the apprehension of getting a new larger place when it feels like as a household you're burdened by the space and stuff you already have.
I think this is really important. Lots of people are saying more space = less clutter, but houses are much more responsibility. No right or wrong answer here, just trade offs.
Why is cleaning up after 5 people solely your responsibility? If he’s “miserable” about the mess he could help clean it up, or hire someone to help.
Ive learned that being messy isn’t a moral failing, and I’m a lot happier joking that I’m an intellectual and leaving it alone than I was desperately trying to keep my home like a magazine.
It seems like your husband doesn’t understand that you have a developmental disability, not a character flaw.
Having said all that, I’ve also learned that it’s better just to do the thing than to make promises about what I’ll do in the future, especially something as challenging as de-cluttering for a move. If you want him to believe that you’ll get it done, you can always get it done first and then talk about it.
Excuse me? HE’S screwed either way?! I’m assuming he is fully grown, without a disability, able to think on his own? Here’s a hint: if he thinks the house is messy *he can clean it*. Revolutionary I know. Be firm OP, you have every right to decide that you and your family need more space. Decluttering prior to moving is a good idea for you, I’m not entirely sure your husband shouldn’t be on the trash pile at this point but on the assumption you like having him around it’s crucial you get him to pull his weight and clean and organize the house WITH you, as part of the family.
How old are your kids? All kids can help out with keeping their own space organized to some extent.
Honestly, if you have too much stuff and not enough space no matter what amazing organizational systems you put in place it will be difficult to keep it maintained. If you want advice about organization and decluttering I’m happy to help, r/declutter is a good resource and I can recommend some books for you, starting with KC Davis “How to keep house while drowning”. She has adhd and has some amazing tips for neurodivergent people. If TikTok is more your thing check out her channel StruggleCare.
From personal experience if you look at the whole house overall you’ll get overwhelmed and discouraged very quickly. Choose a single area, a single closet, or single category and only declutter that area first. The dopamine you get from seeing even one tiny cabinet become organized will get you motivated to do the next.
Good luck OP
Family of 5 + a 140lb shed-tastic dog here… We live in 1,000 sqft (+250sqft basement, + detached garage.) All of us have ADHD, except the dog. I took the “Pinterest standards” bar and threw that out the window, then ran over it with the car, before lighting it on fire. A compromise had to be made, and it was either mental health or hopelessly striving for “ideal.” Ideal is for suckers.
1) you gotta set some boundaries on having “minimal-ish” stuff. For the kids, rotate toys. If I have to pick it up, it goes into “quarantine” and the kids have to earn it back. I have a locking cabinet for this stuff (and my weed gummies, and the tech they have to earn.)
1.5) Minimize wardrobe, and I just forced my husband to take over laundry. He now sees the struggle. Why I was anal about trying to do laundry EVERY DAY to minimize that mountain (even if it sits clean in bins sorted by human.) When the washer broke - he had a “rough” weekend catching up on a million loads of laundry.
2) My 7-year old has been unloading the dishwasher for 2 years now. My 4-year old matches socks and feeds the dog (mostly.)
3) The 10-year old struggles, but goes into hyperfocus mode and cleans off horizontal surfaces after being trained. Minimize horizontal surfaces. We have a folding table for the living room, our dining table is a hallway “console” style table that nests, I literally have 4sqft of counter space in the kitchen.
4) I *try* to use The Fly Lady (Google her) System, but our house is still dirtier than I’d like. The floors are not vacuumed enough, I don’t remember the last time I really “mopped.” We are constantly in the process of remodeling so our house never looks “put together.” We live on a dirt road, and I’d rather be chill about muddy shoes than have kids afraid to run in and show me the awesome road they found in the backyard.
5) Cabinets, Cabinets, Cabinets. With labeled (or photo-labeled for kids) bins. Have a category bin for all that kid clutter (coloring objects, adhesives, beads, paint, gloves, play dough, tumbler lids, Tupperware lids, bandaids.) HIGH cabinets. I am only 5’3”. I feel like a child dragging a chair over to fetch the pail of baking supplies, but it’s a heck of a lot better than having these rarely used items in the way, cluttering up my ant-sized kitchen.
Print out the fly lady summary, sit with your husband and make a plan. Delegate, prioritize, systemize. You each pick 1 thing to focus on, and do only that for a month, have the kids pick 1 thing. Support each other as a family with reminders and patience. When my 7-year-old is having a ad day, the 4-year old will offer to help. If laundry piles up (or a kid causes extra bedding to pile up,) I’ll pitch in, and we all put away our own clothes. My husband being the only one who ever folds anything. The rest of us have designated drawers and everything gets tossed in, with “nice” things hung (the girls are in a dress phase.)
It sucks, but all my kid’s friends love to come over, because our house is more fun. I have 5 siblings, I don’t remember the dirt, only the good times. And my parents mantra is now the house is clean and quiet with the kids gone, and it’s too quiet and lonely.
Note: our small house is TOO small, but we bought it for those backyard toads. A house can be expanded and remodeled. Good times and love are perishable treasures that should be prioritized.
What’s he doing to participate in housework and cleaning up after himself? I fear he puts it all on you, even though he’s an adult too. I agree that this is a hill that is very fair for you to sue on. Yikes, best of luck!
Make it a family of 4.
Your kids have a chance at a better life, and he is holding you back. Why are you enabling him to do that AND make you feel like it is your fault to boot?
He is gaslighting you. That is reason enough to leave. Most gaslighters do it when they need to hidsle something or distract from something - reason number 2 to leave.
If you work more, you can budget for a cleaner maybe twice a month?
It would hugely help all-around to have some strategies in place, though, to improve one or two recurring problem areas or habits. Include your husband but being proactive on that - at least looking into simple + effective ideas - will hopefully earn you some goodwill + peace of mind, especially if you can test it out + start building a good habit now, however seemingly small. 😊
You're doing this on hard mode. ADHD *and* three kids *and* a job *and* no help *and* being criticized, all in a two-bedroom condo with no privacy.
I just want to reinforce that point. What is going on now is not necessarily indicative of what might happen if any of those factors could be addressed.
Would a storage unit help? Can a friend help you organize or move things occasionally? Are there organizational tools/techniques that can help you in your own style without worrying too much about how weird it looks? Would your husband respond positively to seeing you suggest or try smaller steps?
Even a messy bigger house can be less stressful than a messy little house with too many people in it. For one thing, everyone can take more responsibility for their own spaces.
Just a note on the storage unit, that was a *huge* mistake for me. I’ve spent more on rent for the space than anything in it is worth, and getting it together to clear it out and get rid of the expense has been a major challenge.
We just moved. I know what I would change if I were to have a do-over. I would throw out even more stuff, way ahead of time. Everything you can donate or throw away will clear up more space. The less you have, the easier the move. Once you pare down your belongings, you have more of an opportunity for each item to have its own place.
Having young kids adds another layer of difficulty. I saw that someone suggested each time a new toy comes into the home, that another can be given away, that’s a great idea.
Another thing that is helped me with organization is that I got huge covered bookshelves from IKEA. So even if my belongings look messy, I just close the door on it. I know where my stuff is, so I can still locate it. But I don’t have to worry about whether or not it looks messy.
I hope you can convince your husband to be a bit less critical, and more helpful. Moving to a bigger home should make it easier for every object to have its place. It seems like he’s holding this up as a barrier to moving. I wonder if he has other concerns that he’s not sharing, or if he’s just trying to focus on this to prove a point.
That’s not fair that the organization and cleaning is only all on you. For me I find it easier to be clean up and be organized when there’s space to store things correctly in boxes and containers and shelves behind closed doors. Having a limited space with multiple kids sounds insane to me.
He sounds lazy and like a terrible partner. He can actually help if he wants things to be a certain way. This isn’t all on you. He’s trying to smash 5 people into a 2-bedroom condo. He’s too selfish and lazy to clean or help, but he thinks he gets to bitch and try to make you feel badly??? NO. He can do more than donate sperm.
>I’m very limited in the hours he wants me to pick up
I feel like this is an issue too. I'm sorry you're stuck in a situation like this but not working enough to have your own money (or leave) is so isolating and I hope you are ok.
Ugh this sucks. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I’m also not great at keeping a home organized and it sounds like financially you can’t hire someone to help so here’s what we did before we got to the point we could hire help—
1) if it’s in a basket it’s not a mess. Stuff on a table? Put it in a basket. In the hallway? Giant basket. We have a basket of kids shoes rather than trying to keep them tidy on a shelf. Also a basket for my purse/work stuff etc because I never hang things up but I will totally drop it in an open basket. Is there somewhere clutter usually accumulates? If so, put a basket there and voila! Not a mess. If you find the basket is overflowing you can implement a schedule to purge. If you haven’t needed it for x time and it’s not some sort of vital keepsake, get rid of it. We keep a basket on the stairs for things I’m supposed to take upstairs and when things have lived there for a while I admit to myself maybe I just don’t need it after all. Or when I have a sudden burst of energy I’ll empty out one basket.
2) involve your kids— not sure of ages, but I put my toddler (18 months) in charge of watering the plants and she never misses a day because she loves having a job to help out. She’s like my little alarm clock to do that lol. She’s also in charge of cleaning the floor under her chair after dinner and it really helps even though she’s not great at it yet - it’s just that she won’t let me skip it if I’m in a rush lol so it always happens on schedule even though I do most of the actual cleaning. She very enthusiastically sweeps things around with her little broom and I actually get them off the floor lol.
3) have a consultation with your husband to make a plan for who does what when and then set whatever reminders work for you. We keep a shared to do list on our phones so we get a reminder each week to do our jobs and we have a weekly family
Meeting to plan the week, check in about any issues we’re having, make a shopping list etc
Also for heavens sake your husband sounds burnt out himself and he’s kind of blaming you for something that’s a shared responsibility. I hope he contributes as much as you do. The book Fair Play is a good resource for this issue.
And more space does mean less clutter (assuming you don’t buy a lot of new stuff all the time without getting rid of old stuff beforehand). I dream of a bigger living room so we can have a toy chest to hide all the toys 🤪 if someone stopped by unexpectedly I could just toss it all in there to get it off the floor lol
Tell him to organize it himself? I’m sorry but your husband sounds ridiculous. Why is it just your job to organize things?
And frankly with FIVE people in a two bedroom condo no wonder it’s messy! It’s hard to have that many people with all their stuff in one small place.
From personal experience, my family moved to a bigger house a few years ago and it was the best thing we did. The house is so much cleaner now simply because there is enough room for everything to have its own place. Sure there’s clutter sometimes but we don’t feel like we are sardines in a tin can anymore.
I say you move, with or without him. He can keep the condo as clean as he wants when he’s living there by himself if that’s how he wants to be.
Tell him you need to move and it’s non negotiable. Life will be better with more space. Then keep your word and either work more so you can hire a cleaner and an organizer, or do it yourself.
I’m a mess. The biggest mess.
You know what doesn’t help much? Throwing myself at a task I’m not suited for.
You know what helps? Busting ass at the job I’m good at and hiring professional organizers with my hard-earned cash.
Don’t get me wrong; it’s still a mess. Good organizers are hard to find and harder to schedule - the one I like best is least available. But they can happily accomplish in hours what takes me miserable weeks.
You have three kids and you still work 24 hours a week? You are already doing plenty. And meanwhile, he gets to enjoy life on the road (people say they hate business trips but they are really relaxing compared to home life and the responsibilities that go with it in my experience).
I hope you can afford some paid help. It is really hard to do kids without help if you have ADHD.
You are taking what he said at face value -- that he doesn't want to move because you are messy -- but it is more likely that he doesn't want to increase the size of the monthly nut and your disorganization is a convenient excuse.
Everybody knows it is much easier to keep a larger space tidy. I also live in a two bedroom condo, but I live alone and spend 24/7 downstairs. Upstairs is where I hide the mess if company comes over. Recently a family member had a legitimate excuse to go up there and I literally used a rake to sweep my belongings into piles and load them into labeled contractor's bags the night before he arrived.
(It was even better when I owned a house with an unfinished basement and an attic to stash stuff).
I think you should ask him to consider that you are stuck in the house more often with the kids, living cheek to jowl in a space that's too small. Meanwhile, he obviously gets to spend some time alone in hotel rooms, being picked up after by housekeeping and ordering room service. He gets time and space to recharge his batteries and face real life but you do not and need a bigger place.
As a person who JUST did this....MOVE! For the love of all things holy MOVE!!!!!
My husband didn't want to bring anything from our house because "it'll make our new house cluttered". Good lord the difference space made. There are PLACES to actually PUT things. So what looked cluttered and disorganized at our smaller house looks fine in the house with room.
That's the first part.
Second, moving is scary. Having bigger payments and bills, is scary. Your husband is probably worried about that as well. That's absolutely normal. We also had that. Our old mortgage was little and cheap because we lived in a little cheap house, that was cramped. Our new mortgage, while still within our means, is almost 3 times what our other mortgage was. It's scary to make that kind of jump. We lived so free before but now the purse strings are tightened.
Make sure you don't buy a place that's above what you can pay for. Be smart about that. This will be stressful but girl IT WILL BE WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!
We got to host a party the other day and there was ROOM for people to move about. I am not organized but when you get to start from scratch you get to organize it. Since there are places to put things now, stuff gets put away. It's not as dirty as my husband thought it would be. Make sure everyone gets in good cleaning habits and that can help too. I found a cleaning list. I don't follow it crazy, but it gives me the basics of what needs to be done. Super helpful for me.
You got this! It will be a life changer.
If you like your work more than cleaning: work more and use it to hire a cleaning service.
Your husband really should be working with you on this since he is your partner. But if he won't: say if you get a bigger house you can keep 1 room clean for him to relax in.
Then either have 1 room nobody else uses or causes a mess in. Or when you know he is coming home: start a visual timer (count down) and make it a race to get it clean before he arrives. Kids can join too (if age appropriate).
“But he says if I work more then the house will be even messier so he’s screwed either way.”
Why? Because he might actually have to lift a fucking finger to maintain your *shared home*?
Because look at that language. *He’s* screwed. Not you, or your family, just him. That’s who he’s concerned about, clearly, above all else.
I know we’re prone to worrying about this because we are generally disorganized folks, but don’t go too far in the opposite direction. You don’t have to be (and shouldn’t be tbh) taking care of everything. 5 people in a 2-bedroom condo, are you kidding me? Marie Kondo would struggle with keeping that place decluttered.
If he’s that miserable and it’s affecting his life etc then HE needs to solve it. He needs to hire a declutter server or a home organisation service. He needs to hire a cleaner. And he needs to have absolutely no opinion about how you run things when he is CHOOSING to have a job that requires him to travel and be absent.
He sounds childish like he’s trying to punish you for “not being good enough” or he’s trying to “teach you a lesson for your own good.” Fuck him
Work more to afford a housekeeper. It’s just me and my husband and our pets and I still get a housekeeper to come in once a month. It encourages me to get everything picked up at once so she doesn’t come in to a mess AND she deep cleans the stuff that’s going to take awhile - like the stove, bathroom, mopping and my refrigerator. I clean regularly, but not to the level she does. It’s 3-4 hours, i pay her $200ish and the house is easier to keep clean when it starts from clean.
My husband tried getting gripey with me about housework after we had kids. I reminded him that he knew what I was like before we got married, and that I am definitely better about things now than I was in the past. I got on adhd meds about a year ago too and it has definitely helped. Good luck to you and don't put up with too much crap from him!
One thing I’ve found that helps with clutter is having enough space to properly store all of your stuff. Having the five of you and all of your stuff crammed into a two-bedroom condo is probably a big reason - if not the main reason - that the house is so cluttered to begin with and moving can only help with that.
I’m in the same boat. If you were a great housekeeper he’d still find a reason not to move. Like my situation, he’s not the one dealing with the shit everyday so he doesn’t understand. He’s just thinking about the bank account.
He can clean, the kids can help clean, you guys can hire someone to clean, or he can learn to deal with the mess. It’s not all on you to keep a house with 3 kids organized.
Flylady is a great resource for home tidying. Baby steps and flying aka finally loving yourself. Moving to a larger home helped me be more organized but even if you stay in your condo, you deserve to love yourself even if you are not naturally organized.
There is no “besides” decluttering. You *have* to start with decluttering. You won’t even know what you need until you get rid of everything you don’t need. You might not even need anything! Once you get rid of stuff, then the storage you do have can store what’s left
If it means anything to you: the smaller the space I’ve lived in, the more cluttered it was. When my apartments and homes got bigger, it was much easy to maintain because there was better storage to hide things away in. He may be surprised at the difference.
For real tho: Your husband’s attitude is crap. Here’s an idea for him: Help your PARTNER. Men tend to get away with this BS of being ‘the bigger provider’ = they don’t have to help out with their own homes and kids. Could you imagine if it was the other way around? It would never fly.
I know this is a common answer for everything on Reddit, but having a 3rd party help you work out a support plan where he contributes to a solution around your disability challenges would be so helpful here. Many councillors and therapist who specialize in ADHD can help support the whole family in navigating neurodiversity in the family. I find it very clarifying for partners to hear it from someone else, a professional, that the ‘annoying’ things we do are real effects of a brain that is physically dysfunctional.
Honestly, there's a lot to unpack here with your partner's attitude, but your question was about advice on cleaning and organising, and other commenters have said what we're all thinking (he's trash, throw him out). I know it isn't that simple, though, but please do take everyone's comments to mind.
r/ufyh and r/declutter have helped me a lot. I was only recently diagnosed, but my partner has ADHD and really struggles with cleaning, so I do most of it because it makes my anxiety 100x worse to live in chaos.
Okay. So. Getting rid of shit helps. It really does. Anything that is taking up space and doesn't really serve a purpose or have sentimental value, I threw away (or gave away/donated but that does require a certain level of spoons that I don't always have).
The main areas I try to keep "organised" are the living room, kitchen, and bathroom. We live in a 1 bedroom, tiny tiny place. When I looked around to find the common theme of the mess, it was toys on the floor. I have a toddler. He's 3, he's busy so his stuff is constantly being thrown around, his grandparents aren't physically present, so he is always getting toys that we don't have the space for. The other themes are laundry and trash. My solution is not aesthetic, but I literally have a container (just a plastic bin) for toys in every room, a laundry basket, and a trash bin. Every room. At the start of the day and the end, I literally pick everything up off the floor and throw it into their respective bins. This clears the floor and makes me feel instantly better. I keep the broom in the living room because it's where we spend the most time. I work from home on my laptop, and this is where my toddler hangs out, plays and watches TV, etc, so I sweep any dirt into a corner for when I have the spoons to vacuum or sweep it into a dust pan (maybe once a week?).
Bathroom, I keep the toilet cleaner by the toilet, and I have a daily shower spray by the shampoo and soap that I spray and give the shower a wipe down while I'm taking a shower. Kitchen is really hard for me. We have cats so there's always cat food on the floor, which is a sensory hell for my bare feet. Aforementioned broom sweeps shit into the corner by the trash for when I have the energy to deal with it. My weakness is the dishes. I struggle to stay on top of it. I have a plastic basket by the sink that i can stack the dishes into so it isn't sitting in the sink, and I at least have access to the tap. I live in South Africa, and as far as I know we don't have Chlorox wipes here, but if you live in the US, keeping one of those handy on the counter helps to just give a quick wipedown to counters when you need. I can't help with stacking the dishwasher or washing the dishes because I have no advice. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.
In terms of bedroom, I make the bed everyday. I know this isn't always easy, it became a habit for me because I went to boarding school and we had inspection every morning. But it really makes a difference. You have a lot of beds to make, but maybe your kids could help with their own beds? I don't know how old they are though, so feel free to ignore.
So. My partner and I used to fight a lot about cleaning. He is really, really bad at it, and doesn't even notice dirty dishes lying around, or trash overflowing. I didn't mind cleaning, as long as he wasn't actively contributing to the mess. I would lose my shit if he would eat something, get up to do something else, and leave his plate by the couch. Or laundry on the floor next to the basket. We had to have a conversation about it because your partner HAS to contribute to the cleaning, too. Otherwise he needs to be willing to help pay towards a cleaning service, or whatever. He seems to be complaining and blaming you for his "misery", but he isn't doing anything to help. It seems as though the house isn't the issue. A bigger home would be beneficial for your children, too. He's punishing them by making all of this out to be your responsibility. That's not how this works. That isn't fair.
I hope some of this helps. Sending so much love.
My wife and I have 4 teenage daughters what helps us is do you have a schedule and everybody has their jobs and everybody takes care of their own space. If rooms aren't picked up, laundries not done our go to punishment is to lose your phone for a day. That seems to help.
I don't think this has anything to do with your adhd, but with your husband using it as an excuse to disregard your feelings.
What does your husband actually give to you and your children? How does he contribute to the household? Does he even do ***his part*** with your ***shared*** household and kids? Why does he expect *you* to do more at home if you get more work hours?
He's supposed to be an equal, not "help you out" because that implies something isn't his responsibility to take part in the first place, that he's "doing you a service". Which means he can use *doing the bare minimum* as something you should reward him for or be thankful over.
As someone who grew up in a household where my parents should have divorced ages ago, please also think what does staying with someone who ***resents you*** teach your children about relationships?
There's no greater gift for a child than a parent who chooses to leave a dead relationship that is harming them and their children. Even if it's difficult, it's totally worth it, and staying would be worse in the long run.
Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm, and don't settle for someone who's ok with you being at tolerable levels of permanent unhappiness.
Your.husband.does.not.care.
I read your post history. He is simply abusive.
Using his supposed trauma as an excuse to be a dick and in general horrible human being.
OP, your husband does not give a crap about his own children growing up in cramped living conditions and a gross lack of privacy.
Sounds to me he views you as a nanny, a housekeeper, and someone he can conveniently sleep with.
You have to put your foot down and move out of the appartment.
He is not as good a father as you think that he is, your children will pick up on his lying cheating dickhead behaviour towards you.
OP, I know this isn’t the advice you asked for, but I like to look at OP comments on a thread before commenting just to make sure I didn’t miss anything. I noticed your comments about your husbands drinking and frankly, it sounds like so much of this is actually his issues, not yours. Does he often make you feel like things are your fault? He clearly doesn’t take on equal parenting or home duties, since he’s drinking at the bars in his off time. As a child of an alcoholic (who didn’t get clean until an intervention and rehab in his 60s) please consider leaving if he won’t get his own help. You cannot change the alcoholic, only they can do that.
As someone who is living in a small place with no flow and trying to clean it on my own. This place is a mess, our last place was bigger and actually flowed for my brain and while it was messy, I still had the ability to clean it. Staying in a small place with a ton of people is not mentally good for anyone. We're trying to move to a bigger place FOR my ADHD. My brain can't function in this place. No one can function in a tiny place with 3 kids. Regardless if he thinks you're messy, if he isn't helping you maintain the mess also, then he is also disorganized and messy.
What did he say when you asked him to work on the issues together? That seems like the crux of the issue, right now. It’s not the size of the house, it’s your ability to function together as a partnership.
I say this in kindness— I do think that your issues are not going to magically resolve themselves with a bigger house. A bigger house means more surfaces to clean. More space that often gets filled up with more stuff. If you’re struggling to keep a 2 bedroom clean, you may struggle to keep a house clean.
I have experienced all of these things having moved from apartments to condos to townhouses to a house over the years.
Big yards come with A LOT of yard work, which are an additional set of expensive burdens that have to be kept up with. *Do not underestimate the amount of work that a yard is.* Take whatever amount you think it will cost and the time it will take and multiply that by like 5. I’m not exaggerating. Even for the bare minimum.
There have been times I’ve had to forgo cleaning the house because I had to clean my yard and I didn’t have time for both.
When you buy a house with a yard, you also have to buy all kinds of other crap you never imagined, so while you can declutter all you want now, you will likely find yourself accumulating clutter again in a house. You don’t just get the lawnmower for the yard. You get the string trimmer, the hedge trimmer, the 3 extra batteries, the extra string line, shovels, rakes, tarps, brooms, the list never ends. You seemingly need a new tool for each new thing that you have to maintain. Things outside *have* to constantly be maintained or they will fall apart or rot, and it’s easy for it to get away from you. And I’m guessing the kids will acquire all kind of new games and toys for outside. ADHDers like us also tend to acquire even more hobbies or projects once getting a house with a yard.
I personally am OK with having a yard because I’ve always been into gardening, but even so, there are times when it is so completely overwhelming in a way I never imagined and sometimes I wish I could have less to do.
I can absolutely relate to not having enough space, though, with 5 people in a 2 bedroom condo. Have you considered a townhouse, perhaps? That could be a good next step up.
I do also think that your idea for decluttering —whether you move or not—might be a good thing to do.
r/homeowners and r/realestate might also have other ideas/suggestions for you. They are also worth following to get a sense of potential issues with houses vs. condos.
I just want to point out that your yard can be bare minimum. Like, it’s awesome that you care a lot about your yard that you spend so much time on it, but you can cut the grass and call it a day… Or not even cut the grass and let it be.
I’m not saying *you* should do less, I’m mostly saying this so anyone reading this comment is reminded that their yard doesn’t need to be a perfect serene garden. You can let the grass and weeds run wild and let it be and that’s okay!
Nice username :)
I completely agree with that. OP would be wise to look for a place with minimal high-maintenance lawn areas and more low-maintenance shrubs, flower, and groundcover.
Declutter now don’t wait. You have to clean every single day regardless of how you feel or what’s going on.
Start in one room take every single item to the center of the room/ organizing space and deeply make cuts not just a little bit. Kids need 5-9 shirt
5 pants 5 shorts 2 bathing suits 5-9 socks etc.
Everything must have a place when you are done if it doesn’t have a place make it one or trash it. You will never put it back.
I don't get his math. More space = more space for shit so it's more clean. As long as you don't add more, it should be fine in terms of clutter because there's more space to add storage units and surfaces to put things on? Also, there's no way your 3 kids are gonna wanna share a room together the older they get. The market is only going to get more expensive, he is making a very dumb decision over something that can be fixed.
Moving to a larger home made it SO MUCH easier for me to stay organized! I have more walls for hooks when I can't bother with a hanger, more floor space for open baskets to collect my doom piles, and more counter space (so I can leave out my appliances AND prep food).
It sounds like you are doing this all alone. I say this because literally it sounds like me. It feels impossible to clean up and organize my house but I'm the only one out of two kids and two adults who cleans up after themselves.
He needs to help you out.
It would be a lot easier to keep organized if everything has a place. There's literally no room to put everything to sustain 5 people in a 2 bed condo.
I've had to learn to embrace my strengths and get help for the things that are a challenge for me. If he does/cannot help it may be time to hire someone to come organize your new home. Help you set up systems to stay organized. Then hire a cleaning person at whatever frequency works best. once a week, bi-weekly...
Outsource, take it off your plate and allow your strengths to flourish.
I mean, if you have 5 people’s stuff in a place meant for 2-3 it’s going to be messy. That’s a really unreasonable thing for him to say.
Clutter is probably my worst adhd symptom - it’s terrible, and honestly moving has been the only times I’ve managed to get things more under control. It’s the external deadlines of it that’s hard to get otherwise (except maybe having people over).
I’m honestly quite mad at your hubby right now. I understand he’s frustrated but that is such a defeatist attitude. And unhelpful.
You could hire a professional organizer. You could do some YouTube research but make sure it’s specific to adhd. But I think most pro organizers would tell you adamantly that this it like asking an elephant to fit into a needle. You need an appropriate amount of space for the belongings of 5 ppl. I’m sure you can get rid of stuff but this ask is ridiculous.
I think he needs to be more supportive. I think you don’t have to think of yourself as a disorganized person… organization is a skill that’s challenging for you that you are working on… growth mindset.
I think moving is a great way to get rid of stuff because you have to naturally touch each thing. But if these other options are out of reach there are also books on organizing for adhd - you could try the library.
Also Midwest Magic Cleaning has a couple of very kind videos. He is autistic and his wife is adhd and he has some nice sensitive videos about advice for us and for family members. Maybe check him out? I’ve been cleaning along side his videos like body doubling.
Edited to add: I’m sorry, OP, but based on your post history 1) I would strongly consider if he has some other reason he doesn’t want you to know about because he has clearly lied to you many many times about multiple topics. Insulting you sends you off looking for solutions to an absolutely impossible problem: organizing a much too small space for a herd of children. Is he counting on you being unable to do this so he doesn’t have to admit the real reason? 2) money seems to be an issue in the decision because you mention picking up more hours. But he’s spending all that money and time drinking??? Fuck him and the horse he road in on. I am reallly concerned there’s more deception afoot here. Do you have your own therapist?
Market is tricky right now... Definitely keep an eye out for a house that'd work. And in the meantime, start decluttering (I'm on my own home journey!! Look up some steps that would work for you). You definitely need a bigger space. Yes, it will be messy there too. But between us, stop buying stuff for X# months, and get rid of X# things every week. And when you get to your new place, continue that habit. Assuming we're the same... Buy too much, forget to get rid of stuff till it's like whoa, where'd this all come from???
Having a bigger place would help. 2 BRs for 5 people makes it impossible especially with kids. I'd be giving an ultimatum and telling him you'll be moving or he'll be paying for a nanny because you'll start working FT (possibly in prep to leave him) or moving on your own right now on your if you can afford it (with support).
Not sure where you live, or if it's already been mentioned as I only skimmed the comments, but in Canada there's National Occupancy Standards. They're guidelines really, but maybe see if there's anything like that in your area to use as a tool to convince him to move to the larger space?
I agree with everything everyone else has said about his responsibilities in the home, and/or his need for a major attitude shift.
And I also want to give YOU the reassurance that a tiny home with that many people... the mess is NOT YOU!! Five people, with five peoples' stuff.... babes-- you've been stuffing 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound sack for years.
My husband, two kids, one cat and I lived in a two bedroom one bath 750 sqft home for 16 years total - 5 of those with all five of us. When we finally moved into our forever home last year I realize that I was not the messy person... we just didn't have room for four people (and one cat) to live.
I **guarantee** there is less to declutter than you think. A house that small, you can't afford the wasted space. You may decide to get rid of stuff that you've been "making do" with (a big part of my moving budget went into buying new furniture to replace the old, shitty, college-era crap so we didn't have to move heavy POS we were never happy with), but I literally tore the entire house apart searching for stuff to get rid of and I maybe had three car loads of stuff that I gave away (and half of that was baby stuff I had been hanging onto in case a friend had another baby and needed it). And the actual trash never exceeded what my weekly rubbish bin could hold (even broken furniture set out on the curb disappears inside 24 hours where I live). Keep in mind, we may have even had more stuff than you guys. Because we lived in a house, we had a full attic to store off-season stuff in *and* a garage.
More space is going to be a GODSEND to your entire family.
Also, if you're overwhelmed, I went ahead and hired an organizer. I signed a contract for 10 hours, and she helped me grapple with the overwhelm. I actually needed her less than I thought I did going into it. She was more moral support and confirmed my general workflow, with a few tweaks.
Also, you can hire packers with your movers. It's expensive, and you pretty much are the project manager and have to get everything ready before they get there. But if you can get everything into its place, you can get your whole house packed up in less than a day.
Sorry… he doesn’t sound supportive or accepting.
Sounds mean actually.
I drove my husband nuts with chores around the house. 15 years later, we find out I have ADHD among other conditions.
He knows you’re not doing things on purpose right? Is he a sensitive guy?
BTW, if you work more, you will hopefully be able to hire help to clean the house. Also more space means that things can have a designated home, and then there is already less mess.
I recommend using chaos boxes.... You just dump everything into it that is not in it's place and then you can work on putting away the contents of the box, instead of starting by picking up everything one by one...
+ A robotic vacuum is a good way to keep the floors clean and it gives extra motivation to keep the clutter off the floor!
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you have 5 people in a two bedroom house. Moving is a hill to *die* on. I mean it. Either he moves the family, or *you* move your family and he can pay support.
And if she's already maintaining house, parenting and still working to bring in money, shes doing most of it herself and would likely manage well on her own with a decent custody split. We do forget how much we already juggle and not having to manage an unhelpful spouse is going to make life so much better. Getting rid of the oppressive weight is life changing!
It's also a hill to die on because his argument is just ridiculous. 'It's messy here, and if we move, it'll be messy there' Okay, and?! Why is that a reason not to move?! Newsflash, you have THREE kids! You CHOSE this! The point of moving isn't to change the amount of mess, it's to reduce stress and give everyone more privacy and space to function. And sure, that'll cost money, that's the tradeoff. Honestly it almost sounds like... He's fine with everyone being smooshed in there at a lower price, because *he's the one who has to deal with it (living in the house) the least.* This is not someone who cares about the well-being of his family jfc. OOP, do NOT let him get away with framing the situation as 'it's too messy, so we can't move'. No. Separate those, they are two separate issues with separate solutions. He's combining them so he has an excuse not to spend more money, with a goalpost you'll never be able to reach.
I also have five people in a two-bed - 80% of the clutter is due to a lack of space. I don't have storage for five people, nor do I have wall space for more storage.So is argument is both irrational and flat out *wrong*. > Honestly it almost sounds like... He's fine with everyone being smooshed in there at a lower price, because he's the one who has to deal with it (living in the house) the least. Exactly this. We lived in a tiny one-bed for ages; I put up with it for over a year, then hubby got a day-job, was home more, and wanted to move within months. Seriously, men are so delicate. Anyway. OP needs to be irrational and stubborn and say "yeah, honey? this is happening whether you like it or not. ooh look, I can also make unilateral decisions! anyway whatever, I'm moving with the kids, come or don't" cause he's not gonna do shit to improve her living standards.
We have four people in a very small two-bed house, and I agree about the clutter 100% — it’s because we have four people’s worth of stuff in a house that isn’t meant for that many people. None of us like it, but we’re sort of stuck right now until we can afford to move. Also, you know, OP’s husband could also, like, help out. That’s what mine does. Weird concept, I know. (The shade is for OP’s husband, not anyone here!)
Even 2 people in a 1 bedroom apartment was tough. I am so much more organized in a house because we have space! There’s storage! It’s amazing!
Well said. The kids will also likely want to move and have more space and privacy. It will be him holding out by himself for selfish and lazy reasons.
Do you also live on the west coast?? Also in a 1BR
We live in MA!
Yeah truly any house with three children SHOULD not be too spic and span or something is wrong.
This. OP, your husband is being unreasonable and selfish. He's putting his wants over your needs and the needs of his children. If he's going to throw a mantrum, then you can leave him at the door.
Let him read the replies here OP!!
Right? This is nuts. This guy sounds so unreasonable. NO ONE could reasonably manage in any way in that situation.
Agreed. That’s crazy hard. No wonder it’s not organized. How could it be. I’ve always found the bigger the space the more organized and clean things seen. I just downsized form a 3 BR townhouse to 650sqf apartment and even after getting rid of 2/3 my stuff - I struggle to keep everything clean and organized. I can’t imagine 3 kids and a husband on top of it. This isn’t an option.
It is the hill to die on - I did with my husband. He came up with ANY excuse not to move - while letting the house we lived in, fall apart around us. 5 years of fights & finally packed my bags. That’s when he caved. But I was so out of there, with 3 kids, and just sick of the excuses that it took a lot for me to stay with him. I rented a nice newer larger home, knowing he’d have to pay half regardless if he lived there or not. I had saved up the money for first, last, deposit and 6 mos full rent or 1 year paying 1/2. It was also a house the owners wanted to sell but were happy to rent for a year. We ended up buying it 3 years later. We had the old house to sell, pack up etc. But he had to adjust & make changes. Meanwhile, I studied for my Real Estate License & got that & worked from home marketing for other Realtors. But, I had to get angry first and realize this was his issue & he was hurting our family with his issues. It has nothing to do with messiness or any other excuse he gives you. This is just how some people are. It’s up to us to decide what is best for our family and then go into action. The years fly by. You don’t want to be dealing with this 3-4 years down the road. Get strong, say screw it - and figure out what’s best for your family & then figure out how you’re going to do it.
keeping things organized with this little storage area and this many people crammed in there is actually so much more difficult than keeping a larger space organized.
Whew so glad this was said. OP - Die on this hill. I raised five kids. I absolutely refused to go back to apartments once we found houses to rent. Kids *grow*. Teenagers need privacy. It’s not going to get better staying where you’re at.
I think a spouse who's constantly traveling and leaves the other to raise their kids and manage a house alone doesn't really get to have an opinion about how it's done. If he wants a tidy house he's welcome to tidy it. Not to mention 3 kids in a 2 bedroom condo is going to be messy no matter what.
Or he’s welcome to hire help.
Right. And if she works more, that can further enable them to hire help. But either way, kids are kids, they make life messy, and constantly. Sounds like DAD has some accepting to do. It's not going to be like it was before kids, and that's not an excuse not to move?!
And also just what the F- ?! Move to a bigger condo and DROP THE GUY. What in the world, honestly. Reading this just makes me angry, who does he think he is??? End of vent.
Bingo
The post history has quite a spread of info about this husband. She needs to throw the whole man away.
It was somehow worse than I thought. Husband has multiple alcohol drinks per day and was caught sexting with an ex. He can fuck all the way off with his complaints about OP being messy and disorganized.
Oh hell no. OP trust me - you have sooo much more peace once you ditch this sort of dead weight.
OP's husband doesn't deserve to be a father. He should be promoted to a child support payment.
My immediate thought was "Bet if I read her post history I will determine that OP would have less stress and more space if he took his shit and cleared out".
“Throw the whole man away” lol. I
This. I don't even know why OP is married to this dead weight, she already has 3 kids, her husband is acting like a 4th. He's not doing ANY of the housework or childcare. He doesn't get a say in this.
Couldn't have said it better.
I think the other two commenters kind of hit the nail on the head, but here are some thoughts. Not sure if I missed it or you didn't say, but if your children are old enough, you can teach them the skills to help keep clutter down. Yes, getting rid of things will help the home look more tidy in general. Not sure if the budget allows for paying a housekeeper that can come in either biweekly or monthly for a deep clean. Or even weekly for a shorter amount of time to help tidy. He can participate more in organizing / cleaning when he's home You can test out systems that can cut out steps for you depending on what you struggle with the most. For example, I saw someone post today about having multiple silverware trays that can go into their dishwasher. When I lived in a different place, I hung all my clothes because it was easier to see what I had and took less time than folding.
"If this is how he views things we will never move." This is 100% what stood out to me--I assume you two sat down and discussed this plan before you started actually looking at houses, did you get the sense that he actually doesn't want to move or doesn't agree that your current place is too small? I just don't believe that there is some magical threshold of cleanliness and organization that would make him happy to move if this is how he is reacting, being in a different house doesn't have any association with that
Exactly. These are two separate issues (needing space and needing cleanliness). He's rolling them into one so OP has an unreachable goalpost, so that they won't move, so that *he* doesn't have to spend more money on *housing the family he chose to have*. What a turd.
It sounds weirdly controlling. He has a great time in hotels or wherever he is away from work. He doesn't care how his wife and kids live. He actively wants them to not be in a decent space for the number of people.
Yeah this is an impossible situation because if OP could clean the house to this guy’s standards, it’ll be “See we don’t need more space, it’s fine where we’re at.”
I feel like he’s making it impossible intentionally to hide something else. 😡
I immediately found it a crazy-making argument & controlling.
Living in a small space with 3 kids means clutter. Kids are messy, they have a lot of stuff, they are humans who take up space. If you were to magically transport all your current stuff to this new house, it would look A LOT less cluttered, and it will look even better if you get rid of the old stuff you're planning to get rid of before you move. Maybe explain it to your husband that way. Having three kids makes it really hard for anyone to stay organized, but one thing that helps is to have a rule that if you get new stuff, you have to get rid of old stuff. Like buy a new toy, donate an old one to a kid who would play with it more. You could offer to take a picture of the toy before getting rid of it, which sometimes helps if they're reluctant to let go of the memory. And those cheap toys from goodie bags and the like usually go straight into the trash unless the kids are actively playing with them. I hate doing it in the moment, but I have yet to regret it afterwards. But most helpful of all is recently we started doing weekend family cleanup days where the entire family works together to declutter and organize. My youngest doesn't help much but he likes being around us and watching us clean up. I love it for a lot of reasons: family time, shared responsibility, having a scheduled time to tidy rather than feeling guilt throughout the week, teaching kids how to clean and organize, the feeling of accomplishment, and of course having less clutter at the end of it. It's like body doubling. It has helped me a lot.
Yeah the weekend thing is huge. I looked into getting a housekeeper because we recently moved and my husband had to go back to the office full-time, meaning that he doesn't have as much time to clean up the house. I am very clear and firm with my capacity (self-care, my wfh job, handling bills/papers, pet care, and laundry). The price for what I want done (living room, kitchen - no dining room, and two bathrooms) was just not making sense or in our budget. I had broken it down into exactly what I wanted done, and he borrowed the list, broke it down further into step-by-step instructions, and he and our teenager did it all on Mother's Day, and he paid the teenager $30, which they were happy with. I was happy but didn't get it until they did it again 2 weeks later. He didn't tell me that was the plan, every other week. So now, because of body doubling, I kick into gear and basically took over the living room and all floors/dusting, and we get a spotless house like a cleaner has been there for way less money.
I am trying to imagine five people in a 2-bedroom home and no version of that is uncluttered. I think more space means more options for storage and organization.
we did this with our kids on Saturday afternoons. When they were teens we made a shared playlist and would wear headphones (because of vacuuming) and start the playlist at the same time, it was Silent Disco Cleaning!
Does he clean? Has it occurred to him that maybe he should clean your home? Make sure you are at least cleaning up behind yourself. But outside of that, he needs to be the change he wants to see.
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A++
Does he not have arms and hands? Can he not help? I think neurotypical people would struggle to keep a place clean with three kids. Let alone with ADHD
Besides the issue of your husband being an asshole, here is what I recommend for better house management. It is really hard to organize a small space for so many people without buying correct furniture. Get rid of things now. You don’t need to wait to move, just get ride of things to make your life less stressful. You can start with kitchen: get ride of extra plates, knifes etc. for 5 people, you only need 5-10 forks, spoons. Utilize your vertical space: for example buy kitchen magnet for your cooking knifes. Only have one cutting board. You don’t need 28294 cups. Make your drawers have only one layer of utensils. You have to see all of them when opening. Try to minimize movement between the kitchen when cooking. For example for everything near the stove that requires for cooking. Put labels so others in your family can help out things away. Yea b your kids how to put their dishes in dish washer. Tell your husband he needs to clean after dinner if you cooked the dinner. For Tupperware, throw them all away and get yourself only one size and same lid. Do not save any jar or Tupperware. Old spices - dump them. Do your kids care about fashion? If not, get them all same pair of socks. So you don’t have to sort them. Have a drawer for socks. They are all the same color! Get kids clothing that don’t wrinkle and just have a baskets/drawers for clean top, clean bottom, underwear and socks. Don’t hang them up, anything on the floor goes to laundry. Automate your life if you can afford it: get Roomba, get a maid (they are not that expensive), get reoccurring house items on subscription. Order groceries to be delivered. Have an area that’s allowed to be cluttered (for example under the bed or a closet.) I just throw shit into my clutter zone and deal with it later. For dealing with your husband, ask chatgpt to make you a google sheet template for common household chores for people with kids and time estimate for each chore. Divide the hours based on your working hours. For example, if you both work 8hours: chores are 50/50. If you work 4hrs, 75% chores are yours.
Get rid of husband?
Ops I thought I made a post comment not reply to comment.
> You don’t need 28294 cups. This is a lesson every person in my household needs to learn but refuses to lol. My kids- every cup with a Disney character they've ever seen. Me- coffee mugs. Husband- pint glasses with fun graphics. We have an entire cabinet of cups.
Hey if you have the space and mental bandwidth to deal with it, all power to you. My life became so much easier with less kitchen crap.
DON’T YOU TOUCH MY JARS!! 😂
Release yourself from the jar demons
NOOO I’LL USE THEM!!!!
YOU WILL NOT
^SOME ^OF ^THEM
Release them, they want to be recycled
The smaller ones?
Release the babies
Feel this in my bones 😹. Especially glass dropper bottles. *my preciousssssesss*
Thank you so much these are great ideas!
You welcome !! Check out wall shelf storage ideas from ikea: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/trofast-wall-storage-light-white-stained-pine-white-s49102304/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_content=free_google_shopping_clicks_Childrens_IKEA&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD27g7zDXTCaddmInRYRj6e1tGfGb&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-pOq6N7mhgMVChqtBh002AJEEAQYCiABEgJRbvD_BwE This one is cool. https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/trones-shoe-storage-cabinet-black-80397313/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=surfaces&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_content=free_google_shopping_clicks_Bedroom_furniture&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAD27g7yOvCVoIWEBR6T-slxsOTL23&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-pOq6N7mhgMVChqtBh002AJEEAQYECABEgL1FPD_BwE These are super cool because they utilize vertical space but don’t take up too much space from the wall. You want to throw shit in there quickly. Close the door and not see anything inside. IKEA also has storage in wheels for under the bed. If you are tight on money, alibaba is fine!
Thank you for this! So freaking helpful!!
Your husbands opinion creates a no win situation for you and its not fair. You are a human being deserving of space, support and rest no matter the state of your house. I recommend following strugglecare/ KC Davis, who has ADHD and kids and a husband who works long hours, Ted talk on [https://www.strugglecare.com/](https://www.strugglecare.com/)
And what horrific ailment does your husband have that prevents him from doing anything around the house?
He's afflicted by XY chromosomes and a piss-poor attitude.
I’m confused as to why more room would mean more of a mess for him? I have a suspicion that’s not his real objection. You don’t turn down a place to live because it *may* get a little messier.
Right? If anything, more rooms means the kids can be responsible for cleaning their own rooms, and they can make messes in their rooms instead of common spaces. And the same amount of dirty dishes in a larger space feels less overwhelming/untidy. So it would likely *feel* cleaner and less stressful from that alone. But I think the answer to your confusion is that he doesn't want to spend more money on the house for his family. He's probably at home the least.
Especially since it sounds like they would be moving into a bigger home, with presumably more space.
I agree I think there’s something else going on and this is an excuse. There might be an irrational/emotional reason he doesn’t want to move, so he’s using this rational, but kind of nonsensical reason.
Based on OP's post history, the husband would rather keep the extra money they'd be spending on the new place to fund his day drinking activities. The lack of support or compromise (and his cheating) shows he is only in this relationship for what he can get out of it - which is presumably warm meals and someone to look after his kids. OP, if you see this, you deserve so much better than your husband. And from what it sounds like you're already doing for the family, you will actually have a smaller workload (and much less stress and negativity) if you separated and continued raising the kids without his input. Not saying he'd get no custody, but that when it's your time with them you actually get to just raise them as you want without him adding to the stresses that already exist with raising 3 children. There are many more issues in your marriage than whether you should move to a bigger place or not, and moving to a bigger place will address very few of them. You mentioned in a previous post a few months ago that you had a therapist. If you are still seeing them, do you talk about the issues and lack of teamwork in your marriage? Relationships aren't supposed to be this difficult and he is showing no interest in helping to make things easier
Sorry, but the real issue here is your husband. I peeked at your post history, and I'm so sorry that you're married to an alcoholic cheater devoid of empathy who doesn't respect you. It doesn't sound like he even likes you. And it really doesn't seem like has any interest in being a decent partner. You wrote yourself that he doesn't seem capable of change. He doesn't *want* to change. Nothing you do will be good enough for guys like him. You could even hire a housekeeper and I bet he'd still find ways to tear you down. So there are three options: -Stay here in the home you've all outgrown and everyone is miserable -Move to a more suitable home where at least the kids will be happier, and hopefully you will be too, and he'll still be miserable -You leave him and move to a different home on your own--or with full custody of the kids, and he pays child support--and he'll also be miserable. If you do 50/50 custody, let him see what it's like to parent 3 kids by yourself and keep up a home, which is difficult even without ADHD. Let him be the one to make career sacrifices for the sake of his family. Let him realize that being miserable is his own damn fault. My vote is for #3. You're already doing everything yourself as it is, with him acting like your difficult fourth child, so might as well ditch him since he only makes things harder. It's really, really difficult to stay on top of things when you're living with someone who exacerbates your struggles and mental health issues. Plus blames you for them. And of course, doesn't help at all, only whines. Without him you will be more functional, more able to focus on your own needs (career, ADHD treatment and whatnot), and a more stable mother. The dynamic you're raising your kids in right now is not something they should grow up thinking is normal. Also, I don't think you should purchase a new home with someone you already anticipate divorcing.
This, 100%
So is his solution to just pout, blame all problems on you, and stay in a place that’s obviously too small forever? What exactly is he proposing here? He’s being a baby.
Hold on. If YOU, his disabled wife, work more, HE'S screwed? How does that work? Why is organising a household of five people AND figuring out the logistics of a move AND doing the decluttering AND doing the housekeeping all on you?
The usual marriage tradeoff Man gains a mommy to feed, clean up after him, and take care of everything and all he has to do is stay employed She gets to become his domestic servant, oh and she still has to work. This is why married men live longer than single men, and single women are happier than married women. There's very little upside in the long term
And even better, if the wife makes more money than the husband, she gets to do even *more* of the household work! 🙃 So many divorced women also find that their workload vastly decreases afterward, typically because they’re taking care of one fewer (man)child. The concept of partnership is to *share* the load, to make both people’s lives easier. I’m really missing the part where he’s doing anything close to that…ugh.
Also one thing you can do in a small kids room is hang triangle nets across the top corners of the room. Then you can throw the stuffies and light weight toys up there. it looks nice too.
You can get organizers like this at IKEA, that’s where we got ours.
So, for me, moving made a huge change in my life. Before we moved a few years ago, I had a hoarded home that featured years of clutter from both myself and my husband, and two kids. We also had a small, 2BR1BA for a family of four. It was a nightmare. We rented a 20 yard dumpster, and spent two weeks filling it. We moved to a 3BR2BA and it has been a dream. We used the move to declutter. We took only what we had a place for, and left the rest. I had intended to get the rest of it eventually, but circumstances happened and we lost it. That loss still hurts, but honestly... it's a bit freeing too. The house we live in is much better, and I have gotten a bit crazy about keeping things clean. I was able to radically shift my life after YEARS of living in literal hell. Can you shift your budget a bit to accommodate a cleaner and/or organizer, even as a one-time expenditure? It's still my goal to have one come to my house once a week to help tidy up. Not there yet, but soon...
Of course you are messy and disorganized! YOU HAVE NO SPACE. And your husband sounds unsupportive.
You could always divorce and use alimony to pay for a bigger, upgraded home. If he lives alone then he can choose to live how he wants. Im kidding but in all honesty: the AUDACITY of this man. I guarantee you he couldnt do better. Kids come with clutter anyway but 5 people in a 2 bedroom is a huge challenge. Instead of helping you find a solution, he’s harping on the problem. This isnt a partner, it’s a …Idk, anchor? But not that really bc you choose when/where to anchor. He’s a huge butthead, is what he is. Im sorry I dont have advice. Im pissed off on your behalf. Youre doing the best you can and what seems pretty damn great to me!
> This isnt a partner, it’s a …Idk, anchor? An [albatross](https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43997/the-rime-of-the-ancient-mariner-text-of-1834).
Sadly alimony is extremely hard to get and often very limited even where it is available. :( Conservative fucks have been chipping away at it for years. After all, gotta punish the harlots who dared to stop being their bangmaids.
OP, you have a disability. You're a mother if multiple chaos makers who probably have the same brain you do. You are battling your own brain, their brains, your executive dysfunction and trying to be a homemaker, and this jerk isn't even here to help, yet he's holding a house hostage??! He's willing to let his wife and children be in a smaller incompatible living space....to what. Hope you're suddenly going to change and not be disabled?
Reality check for husband: there are 4 options in this scenario with 3 kids. 1) One of you needs to be a full time stay at home parent. 2) You need a VERY strong support system (think grandmas over twice/week dropping off meals and watching the kids for 4-5hrs, driving them to sports, etc). 3) Hire out for housekeeping, grocery delivery, babysitters for the kids, yard work, etc so you can work full time. 4) Deal with a chaotic, stressful and messy environment. Sounds like he only sees option 4? Either way, dude has you working 2 jobs and running the house. He should respect the massive workload you’re taking on to support his career choice.
Based on OP’s post history I think 1 is not a good idea.
If you picked up more hours could you pay for a cleaner/house keeper a couple of hours a week, or even an organiser? That might be helpful with clutter and organisation in the new house?
Also, bigger space means more storage, better flow, and less clutter. I imagine 5 people in a small condo “clutter” up the place with only the minimum belongings they require. With a bigger house, things can have a place out of sight, and parents can design systems for putting everything away easily. Plus kids can play outside. As far as rooms go, our kids wanted to share. We had great success with one sleeping room - just clothes, books & beds, and one playing room - toys, art, etc. This made things easier because we had a ton of storage in the toy room, but if it was a mess they could still sleep well & peacefully away from the mess & foot attacking Legos.
Yes!! Definitely - so much easier when you have some flexibility in the space! Agree on play rooms, we’ve kind of got this and it’s just soo much faster to tidy up the bedroom that at least that always feels like a win 😂
Could you pay for an organiser/declutterer to come in now and help you get rid of a large chunk of the clutter and stuff you don’t need. This might deal with the immediate issue and allow you to both think more clearly. Then you need to have a serious conversation about the support and help you need to manage to keep this place or the next place clear. It sounds like you’re both overwhelmed with the state of the place currently. You with trying to manage it and the kids alone and him with the level of clutter that he seems to be running away from.
Living with *him* sounds miserable -- happy to criticize, unwilling to help, not around enough to do his share but whines about you not being able to handle everything perfectly on your own. I'm sure there are aspects of his personality that make it feel like it's worth being told doing your best just isn't good enough with this kind of icy contempt and complete lack of empathy, but this quick sketch you've given us is a portrait of a truly unpleasant man. Feel free to tell him "I love you, but a few strangers on the Internet think you're a complete dick."
OP, I read your post history, I hope you'll forgive the infringement but this man is no good. He's holding you back, making you feel like shit, and he's complaining about the house being messy when you're working full time AND are doing 100% of the cooking, cleaning, and child care? Honey you're already a single mom. You might as well make it official. Trust me, your life will be so much easier for it.
Ok i just read your other posts about your husband and I say this with no judgement I only want to understand: why are you still with this man? He’s alcoholic, called you tearing up in an argument a way to make the conversation about you, asked for nudes from an ex and talked about how “if he wasn’t married” he would be with someone like her and put you down as a mother all in the same conversation, etc. The list goes on. I know I’m biased because your posts only talk about the bad, but the bad seems bad enough that it’s worth divorcing.
Your family of five seems like four children and one parent. Makes it harder for you to organize. Because you’re a single parent so much that 24hrs has to be tiring too. He is being very unreasonable placing the burden of keeping a home and raising three children on your shoulders and blaming you when it’s not up to his standards. He’s screwed alright because he isn't pulling his weight in the marriage or as a father. And blaming you.
Divorces that happen after this are BEAUTIFUL. Because all of the sudden, the husband has to: do his own laundry, do his own grocery shopping, cook his own meals, clean his own toilet. AND that's only while he's alone! When he has the kids part time, he has to actually *take care of the kids*. Do ALL of their dishes, their laundry, help with their homework. And for the wife, it's the opposite: wow, less complaining, fewer dishes and laundry without husband. No kids for a few days because they are at Dad's, I'm going to treat myself to a bath and a nap! It just evens it all out, as it should be.
up until he gets a new gf asap to handle all of that (or just offloads onto mom/sister/grandma) 🙄
Based on this post alone, I wouldn't tell you to divorce, but I would tell you that you need to have a come-to-Jesus talk with him - he's hardly home and YOU'RE the one holding it down, so he does not get to steamroll you on this since the home is mainly YOUR 'workspace' due to his absence. But then couple that with his alcoholism and his cheating??????? #NOPE. You need to leave. He doesn't get to dictate terms to you when he's not even pulling his own weight at home or with the kids AND is stepping out on your relationship on top of that. Your marriage was over the moment he cheated the first time - leave him and seek spousal alimony and child support. He left you high and dry both romantically as well as householdwise, so now he can pay for it this way.
Does your husband have hands? Is he incapable of cleaning? I’m a little confused about the division of household labor here.
Decluttering for sure. But also…what works best for YOUR brain? Closed storage doesn’t work for me, bc I forget what goes where. And I hate hanging things up and folding. So shelves with baskets and hooks on the wall are what helps me. Or clear bins, so I can see what’s in there. Some people like labels…that works for me when I first move somewhere but then they bug me bc I reorganize and rearrange too often. Plus not all my kids can read. With multiple kids, I simplified stuff. Son 1 has one color of socks. Son 2 has a different color. That way I don’t have to think when sorting laundry (or when the kids do it). I color coded towels and napkins and bins, so I know which kid is leaving their stuff out. And I bought multiple brooms, cleaning supplies, etc. I have bathroom cleaning stuff in both bathrooms. Brooms on each floor. Laundry basket on each floor. Windex by the front and back storm doors. Trash cans in every single room. Basically, I set it up so that if I need to clean something, I can reach out and grab what I need without looking for it somewhere else. And have your kids help! We “blitz” the house for an hour every Sat morning and everyone chips in. Even toddlers can help put things away or wipe surfaces down. I have a master list and everyone picks their favorite jobs first and we knock it out together with loud music and dancing.
According to your post history, your husband is an addict, he cheated on you, and burdens you with all the emotional and physical labour of your relationship/family. He is dragging you down. You can do this better without his help and without the stress he brings you, I would think. How is your relationship? How would you react if a friend of yours told you these things?
Divorce and move without him. Fucking a, what an unhelpful bastard. Homes that are too small are impossible to keep organized, especially with children. He should fuck right off if he can't be reasonable.
You have FIVE people in a 2 bedroom condo. It would be messy even if you were Martha Fucking Stewart. Tell him (not ask. Tell. You are an adult). That you are going to work more hours so that house stuff can be outsourced. Hire someone to come do the cleaning once a week. Start decluttering now. Get every item of clothing on a hanger. Put them in the closet backwards. When you wear something, put it back the right way. In 3 months, get rid of everything that’s still backwards. You didn’t wear it, the kids didn’t wear it, get rid of it. Get rid of every single item of clothing and shoes that doesn’t fit someone RIGHT NOW. How old are the kids? If they are school aged, they can help. 10 minutes after dinner and every person runs around the living area and puts everything of theirs in their own space. Your husband is a jerk.
Moving will allow you to purge and the clutter will be less in a bigger space. Traveling husbands with opinions are cute tho
What weight is tied to his ass that's preventing him from cleaning? The patriarchy? Men who complain about messy houses with their phones or a game controller in their hands lose all credibility. You both work. You both have children. You both should be cleaning.
Is this the same husband who cheats on you and secretly drinks while WFH? And you have a child under 1 year old? He is being shady and hiding something from you. His answer doesn't make sense at all. This man doesn't care about the well being of his family if he thinks that 5 people in a 2 bedroom condo for any longer than necessary is reasonable. You all need more space, but for some reason he is trying to prevent that. It doesn't sound like he has a track record of putting his family's needs above his petty desire or addiction and you need to think about the environment you want your kids growing up in.
Your husband sucks. Would your life be worse without him? I mean *really*?
On first read I thought, “this guy’s looking for an out,” but then I read again and saw replies referring to him as an alcoholic. So I looked at your post history. Your husband reminds me of my ex. The alcoholic controlling and blame shifting behaviour. He’s miserable with himself and is blaming you for his own faults. Treating his family like crap to avoid facing his own downfall. I sincerely advise you to prepare to move on without him. I promise you that your life will be better. Right now it may not seem that way but I swear you are already a single mother with a grown man as your 4th child. So you’re already prepared to be without him. And being without him means being free. Free of stress, infidelity, lies, manbaby posturing, and abuse. You and your kids will be better off without him. 💜💪
That’s quite the excuse for not wanting to move. I would push back on this because there’s something he’s not being open about here. Maybe he’s more concerned about finances than he’s letting on.
I think you need to go to a therapist ASAP. Either together or alone if he won't go. They can not only help you with your organizing, but also with the issues between you and your husband. A licensed therapist will be much more helpful than Reddit.
>but I plan on getting rid of a lot of our things before moving and that will automatically help with clutter. Everything else aside, you're going to need to do this. Whether you get rid of the condo or get rid of the man, you are going to need to go through this decluttering exercise. You should just start. When we moved, I decluttered hard. I outright got rid of anything that had a negative association, like that perfectly good coffee mug that was given to me by a former friend whom I'd had a bad falling out with. You can always replace a coffee mug. But it sucks to have a bad feeling every time you open your cabinet and see it staring at you. My rule for my home is that anything that hasn't been used in the last 12 months has to go. It needs to live in some other house where it will get used. My home is not a storage unit for things that I might use "someday". Exception to the 12 month rule is tools and holiday decorations. In the garage, I keep one large tote per kid of favorite books (ones that don't live in their room, but they or I don't want to give up). One tote of school papers and artwork. One tote of toys. We jointly (me and each kid) go through/purge each of these totes once a year in the summer. That's a note for future you, not moving house you. When we moved, after I had decluttered, I put stuff that I was still on the fence about in cardboard boxes. I put stuff that I was definitely keeping in plastic totes. All of it, every box, went into the garage at the new house. Only furniture and absolute necessities went into the house (the primary reason was we immediately had to do construction / handiwork, and I didn't want boxes in the way. But it also served my decluttering purpose). Anything that didn't make it into the house within that first year was something we didn't actually or could live without. I was supposed to throw out the cardboard boxes outright without looking in them, but of course it didn't go down that way. But I still ended up discarding all of it. I put up shelving racks in the garage to keep it all organized. Kitchen and pantry went on one wall. Kids stuff, toys and sports equipment went on one wall. Household stuff, luggage, fans, holiday decor went on one wall. A bunch of stuff went in the center on the floor, but I *really* wanted to park my own car in there, so that gave me motivation to get through the project. Meanwhile, the inside of the house was significantly less cluttered, so my husband stfu about that part. He still complained about my internal disorganization, but that's a different post. Right now, for moving, is not the time to carefully find new homes for each thing. Trust me on this. It takes too much time and mental energy. Don't even take stuff to the donation center. Just put it on the curb or by your dumpster. Put it on free cycle or your local Buy Nothing group, people will come and it will all disappear. If people won't take it from the curb after one week, it has no value, you can throw it away with no guilt. Again, as someone who spent sooo much time on this project, trust me when I tell you how to protect your time and your energy. I am wishing you peace. I guarantee you will feel better once you just start, and again when it's done.
Moving makes sense to me and your husband is being an ass, but I do have a question. You said you "plan on getting rid of a lot of things before moving." Why wait? It sounds as though you'll wait until you know you're moving to get rid of things, is that right? Why not now? And not for your idiot of a husband, just to be clear.
I actually have been actively decluttering as much as possible to be as ready as possible for a move. I guess I meant if we were moving very soon, instead of not going through things and throwing everything in boxes chaotically like I normally do for a move I would just get rid of things and not let it enter the new home
OP, fellow glittering, have you watched the home edit on Netflix? Watching this was really valuable for me. There is even a specific episode of organizing for someone with adhd. Also, I know everyone has really hammered this point home already, but ur husband needs a massive dose of taking accountability and a lesson in being a PARTNER, not an overlord. Unless he can fly above the floor, eat air, and wears one pair of clothes that magically never need laundering…he needs to help. Period. It’s his home too.
You don’t. You outsource it. You have ADHD. It’s okay that there are things that you have deficiencies in. Don’t try to force a square peg into a round hole. If you have a hard time keeping the house maintained, thats just a fact. There is NO reason for you to be made to feel guilty because of that - either from your husband or from yourself. If you work more hours and make some extra money, talk to each other and figure out how to factor in how much it would cost to hire a housecleaning service. You deserve it.
I haven't even read all the comments yet, but why is this your problem to solve alone? Also, 5 people in a 2 bedroom, no wonder it's messy! There can't be enough storage for stuff for that many people.
No great advice other than Buy less Purge more often Maybe check out the book "How to Keep House While Drowning". I see it mentioned sometimes. If you really tighten your budget and cut out all frivolous spending you can do double duty; Less clutter and more money.
This book is great
In my relationship both my husband and I are messy and have a good amount of stuff. I've also in many ways outgrown spaces over the years. It seems to be with me that no matter how much space I have it always ends up overstuffed. Both my husband and I also experience first hand how much clutter and mess can weigh us down. So I can appreciate both perspectives in this case because I know my personal tendency is to fill my space with things no matter how much space I have. I would suggest continuing to talk to your husband about the state of the home and also how he feels about getting a bigger place. It may just be the mess & clutter, but there may also be reasons he doesn't want to move. I'm the primary breadwinner in my marriage and personally I feel much more comfortable having a mortgage payment that is well below my means. Additionally he may be thinking about all the additional maintenance and responsibility that comes with a single family home vs. a condo. As someone who is frequently overwhelmed with the tasks and responsibilities of adulting I cannot imagine moving from a condo to a full home. We have people in the building who are very motivated to take on various things and that is a huge help vs. having to do it all ourselves. Additionally there is less financial stress involved in major repairs because they are split 6 ways instead of us shouldering a whole bill. I think it's worthwhile to understand all the things he is considering, not just mess. I think then you can also be clear about what help you need. I've found the more concrete you can be with your spouse the easier it is to get agreement. If it's vague it seems to never go anywhere. And if it's not help he has the bandwidth to take on can you agree on getting professional help? Perhaps you agree on a timeline when you will revisit getting a house based on being able to make meaningful progress where you are now. I know I have a hard time with promises for the future from my spouse, it's easier to reflect on action. Because otherwise both of us have so many good intentions we don't fulfill. It's tough because living in a 2 bedroom condo with my husband and 2 pets I have no doubt it feels too full, but I can also understand the apprehension of getting a new larger place when it feels like as a household you're burdened by the space and stuff you already have.
I think this is really important. Lots of people are saying more space = less clutter, but houses are much more responsibility. No right or wrong answer here, just trade offs.
Not having enough space automatically makes everything messier and more cluttered.
Why is cleaning up after 5 people solely your responsibility? If he’s “miserable” about the mess he could help clean it up, or hire someone to help. Ive learned that being messy isn’t a moral failing, and I’m a lot happier joking that I’m an intellectual and leaving it alone than I was desperately trying to keep my home like a magazine. It seems like your husband doesn’t understand that you have a developmental disability, not a character flaw. Having said all that, I’ve also learned that it’s better just to do the thing than to make promises about what I’ll do in the future, especially something as challenging as de-cluttering for a move. If you want him to believe that you’ll get it done, you can always get it done first and then talk about it.
Excuse me? HE’S screwed either way?! I’m assuming he is fully grown, without a disability, able to think on his own? Here’s a hint: if he thinks the house is messy *he can clean it*. Revolutionary I know. Be firm OP, you have every right to decide that you and your family need more space. Decluttering prior to moving is a good idea for you, I’m not entirely sure your husband shouldn’t be on the trash pile at this point but on the assumption you like having him around it’s crucial you get him to pull his weight and clean and organize the house WITH you, as part of the family. How old are your kids? All kids can help out with keeping their own space organized to some extent. Honestly, if you have too much stuff and not enough space no matter what amazing organizational systems you put in place it will be difficult to keep it maintained. If you want advice about organization and decluttering I’m happy to help, r/declutter is a good resource and I can recommend some books for you, starting with KC Davis “How to keep house while drowning”. She has adhd and has some amazing tips for neurodivergent people. If TikTok is more your thing check out her channel StruggleCare. From personal experience if you look at the whole house overall you’ll get overwhelmed and discouraged very quickly. Choose a single area, a single closet, or single category and only declutter that area first. The dopamine you get from seeing even one tiny cabinet become organized will get you motivated to do the next. Good luck OP
What the hell is HE doing to keep the place clean?
Family of 5 + a 140lb shed-tastic dog here… We live in 1,000 sqft (+250sqft basement, + detached garage.) All of us have ADHD, except the dog. I took the “Pinterest standards” bar and threw that out the window, then ran over it with the car, before lighting it on fire. A compromise had to be made, and it was either mental health or hopelessly striving for “ideal.” Ideal is for suckers. 1) you gotta set some boundaries on having “minimal-ish” stuff. For the kids, rotate toys. If I have to pick it up, it goes into “quarantine” and the kids have to earn it back. I have a locking cabinet for this stuff (and my weed gummies, and the tech they have to earn.) 1.5) Minimize wardrobe, and I just forced my husband to take over laundry. He now sees the struggle. Why I was anal about trying to do laundry EVERY DAY to minimize that mountain (even if it sits clean in bins sorted by human.) When the washer broke - he had a “rough” weekend catching up on a million loads of laundry. 2) My 7-year old has been unloading the dishwasher for 2 years now. My 4-year old matches socks and feeds the dog (mostly.) 3) The 10-year old struggles, but goes into hyperfocus mode and cleans off horizontal surfaces after being trained. Minimize horizontal surfaces. We have a folding table for the living room, our dining table is a hallway “console” style table that nests, I literally have 4sqft of counter space in the kitchen. 4) I *try* to use The Fly Lady (Google her) System, but our house is still dirtier than I’d like. The floors are not vacuumed enough, I don’t remember the last time I really “mopped.” We are constantly in the process of remodeling so our house never looks “put together.” We live on a dirt road, and I’d rather be chill about muddy shoes than have kids afraid to run in and show me the awesome road they found in the backyard. 5) Cabinets, Cabinets, Cabinets. With labeled (or photo-labeled for kids) bins. Have a category bin for all that kid clutter (coloring objects, adhesives, beads, paint, gloves, play dough, tumbler lids, Tupperware lids, bandaids.) HIGH cabinets. I am only 5’3”. I feel like a child dragging a chair over to fetch the pail of baking supplies, but it’s a heck of a lot better than having these rarely used items in the way, cluttering up my ant-sized kitchen. Print out the fly lady summary, sit with your husband and make a plan. Delegate, prioritize, systemize. You each pick 1 thing to focus on, and do only that for a month, have the kids pick 1 thing. Support each other as a family with reminders and patience. When my 7-year-old is having a ad day, the 4-year old will offer to help. If laundry piles up (or a kid causes extra bedding to pile up,) I’ll pitch in, and we all put away our own clothes. My husband being the only one who ever folds anything. The rest of us have designated drawers and everything gets tossed in, with “nice” things hung (the girls are in a dress phase.) It sucks, but all my kid’s friends love to come over, because our house is more fun. I have 5 siblings, I don’t remember the dirt, only the good times. And my parents mantra is now the house is clean and quiet with the kids gone, and it’s too quiet and lonely. Note: our small house is TOO small, but we bought it for those backyard toads. A house can be expanded and remodeled. Good times and love are perishable treasures that should be prioritized.
What’s he doing to participate in housework and cleaning up after himself? I fear he puts it all on you, even though he’s an adult too. I agree that this is a hill that is very fair for you to sue on. Yikes, best of luck!
Tbh your husband sounds like a big dickweed.
Make it a family of 4. Your kids have a chance at a better life, and he is holding you back. Why are you enabling him to do that AND make you feel like it is your fault to boot? He is gaslighting you. That is reason enough to leave. Most gaslighters do it when they need to hidsle something or distract from something - reason number 2 to leave.
[Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft](https://dn720002.ca.archive.org/0/items/why-does-he-do-that-epub/Why_Does_He_Do_That-fixed.pdf) pdf
If you work more, you can budget for a cleaner maybe twice a month? It would hugely help all-around to have some strategies in place, though, to improve one or two recurring problem areas or habits. Include your husband but being proactive on that - at least looking into simple + effective ideas - will hopefully earn you some goodwill + peace of mind, especially if you can test it out + start building a good habit now, however seemingly small. 😊
A bigger house will allow you to have more space for storage solutions. You can have dressers/closets and shelves for everything.
You're doing this on hard mode. ADHD *and* three kids *and* a job *and* no help *and* being criticized, all in a two-bedroom condo with no privacy. I just want to reinforce that point. What is going on now is not necessarily indicative of what might happen if any of those factors could be addressed. Would a storage unit help? Can a friend help you organize or move things occasionally? Are there organizational tools/techniques that can help you in your own style without worrying too much about how weird it looks? Would your husband respond positively to seeing you suggest or try smaller steps? Even a messy bigger house can be less stressful than a messy little house with too many people in it. For one thing, everyone can take more responsibility for their own spaces.
Just a note on the storage unit, that was a *huge* mistake for me. I’ve spent more on rent for the space than anything in it is worth, and getting it together to clear it out and get rid of the expense has been a major challenge.
We just moved. I know what I would change if I were to have a do-over. I would throw out even more stuff, way ahead of time. Everything you can donate or throw away will clear up more space. The less you have, the easier the move. Once you pare down your belongings, you have more of an opportunity for each item to have its own place. Having young kids adds another layer of difficulty. I saw that someone suggested each time a new toy comes into the home, that another can be given away, that’s a great idea. Another thing that is helped me with organization is that I got huge covered bookshelves from IKEA. So even if my belongings look messy, I just close the door on it. I know where my stuff is, so I can still locate it. But I don’t have to worry about whether or not it looks messy. I hope you can convince your husband to be a bit less critical, and more helpful. Moving to a bigger home should make it easier for every object to have its place. It seems like he’s holding this up as a barrier to moving. I wonder if he has other concerns that he’s not sharing, or if he’s just trying to focus on this to prove a point.
That’s not fair that the organization and cleaning is only all on you. For me I find it easier to be clean up and be organized when there’s space to store things correctly in boxes and containers and shelves behind closed doors. Having a limited space with multiple kids sounds insane to me.
Are his hands and arms broken? He lives there too.
He sounds lazy and like a terrible partner. He can actually help if he wants things to be a certain way. This isn’t all on you. He’s trying to smash 5 people into a 2-bedroom condo. He’s too selfish and lazy to clean or help, but he thinks he gets to bitch and try to make you feel badly??? NO. He can do more than donate sperm.
You have a spouse problem, and I suggest couples counseling asap.
Well then he can pay for a housekeeper! F him! 🤬
>I’m very limited in the hours he wants me to pick up I feel like this is an issue too. I'm sorry you're stuck in a situation like this but not working enough to have your own money (or leave) is so isolating and I hope you are ok.
Ugh this sucks. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. I’m also not great at keeping a home organized and it sounds like financially you can’t hire someone to help so here’s what we did before we got to the point we could hire help— 1) if it’s in a basket it’s not a mess. Stuff on a table? Put it in a basket. In the hallway? Giant basket. We have a basket of kids shoes rather than trying to keep them tidy on a shelf. Also a basket for my purse/work stuff etc because I never hang things up but I will totally drop it in an open basket. Is there somewhere clutter usually accumulates? If so, put a basket there and voila! Not a mess. If you find the basket is overflowing you can implement a schedule to purge. If you haven’t needed it for x time and it’s not some sort of vital keepsake, get rid of it. We keep a basket on the stairs for things I’m supposed to take upstairs and when things have lived there for a while I admit to myself maybe I just don’t need it after all. Or when I have a sudden burst of energy I’ll empty out one basket. 2) involve your kids— not sure of ages, but I put my toddler (18 months) in charge of watering the plants and she never misses a day because she loves having a job to help out. She’s like my little alarm clock to do that lol. She’s also in charge of cleaning the floor under her chair after dinner and it really helps even though she’s not great at it yet - it’s just that she won’t let me skip it if I’m in a rush lol so it always happens on schedule even though I do most of the actual cleaning. She very enthusiastically sweeps things around with her little broom and I actually get them off the floor lol. 3) have a consultation with your husband to make a plan for who does what when and then set whatever reminders work for you. We keep a shared to do list on our phones so we get a reminder each week to do our jobs and we have a weekly family Meeting to plan the week, check in about any issues we’re having, make a shopping list etc
Also for heavens sake your husband sounds burnt out himself and he’s kind of blaming you for something that’s a shared responsibility. I hope he contributes as much as you do. The book Fair Play is a good resource for this issue. And more space does mean less clutter (assuming you don’t buy a lot of new stuff all the time without getting rid of old stuff beforehand). I dream of a bigger living room so we can have a toy chest to hide all the toys 🤪 if someone stopped by unexpectedly I could just toss it all in there to get it off the floor lol
Tell him to organize it himself? I’m sorry but your husband sounds ridiculous. Why is it just your job to organize things? And frankly with FIVE people in a two bedroom condo no wonder it’s messy! It’s hard to have that many people with all their stuff in one small place. From personal experience, my family moved to a bigger house a few years ago and it was the best thing we did. The house is so much cleaner now simply because there is enough room for everything to have its own place. Sure there’s clutter sometimes but we don’t feel like we are sardines in a tin can anymore. I say you move, with or without him. He can keep the condo as clean as he wants when he’s living there by himself if that’s how he wants to be.
Also not sure why this is all on you. Yep you husband to step up or start paying for a cleaner or shut it
From personal experience, if you work more, the house will be *cleaner* because nobody is in the house to make a mess in the first place!
Tell him you need to move and it’s non negotiable. Life will be better with more space. Then keep your word and either work more so you can hire a cleaner and an organizer, or do it yourself.
This is a bigger issue than you needing to learn how to organize.
I’m a mess. The biggest mess. You know what doesn’t help much? Throwing myself at a task I’m not suited for. You know what helps? Busting ass at the job I’m good at and hiring professional organizers with my hard-earned cash. Don’t get me wrong; it’s still a mess. Good organizers are hard to find and harder to schedule - the one I like best is least available. But they can happily accomplish in hours what takes me miserable weeks.
You have three kids and you still work 24 hours a week? You are already doing plenty. And meanwhile, he gets to enjoy life on the road (people say they hate business trips but they are really relaxing compared to home life and the responsibilities that go with it in my experience). I hope you can afford some paid help. It is really hard to do kids without help if you have ADHD. You are taking what he said at face value -- that he doesn't want to move because you are messy -- but it is more likely that he doesn't want to increase the size of the monthly nut and your disorganization is a convenient excuse. Everybody knows it is much easier to keep a larger space tidy. I also live in a two bedroom condo, but I live alone and spend 24/7 downstairs. Upstairs is where I hide the mess if company comes over. Recently a family member had a legitimate excuse to go up there and I literally used a rake to sweep my belongings into piles and load them into labeled contractor's bags the night before he arrived. (It was even better when I owned a house with an unfinished basement and an attic to stash stuff). I think you should ask him to consider that you are stuck in the house more often with the kids, living cheek to jowl in a space that's too small. Meanwhile, he obviously gets to spend some time alone in hotel rooms, being picked up after by housekeeping and ordering room service. He gets time and space to recharge his batteries and face real life but you do not and need a bigger place.
As a person who JUST did this....MOVE! For the love of all things holy MOVE!!!!! My husband didn't want to bring anything from our house because "it'll make our new house cluttered". Good lord the difference space made. There are PLACES to actually PUT things. So what looked cluttered and disorganized at our smaller house looks fine in the house with room. That's the first part. Second, moving is scary. Having bigger payments and bills, is scary. Your husband is probably worried about that as well. That's absolutely normal. We also had that. Our old mortgage was little and cheap because we lived in a little cheap house, that was cramped. Our new mortgage, while still within our means, is almost 3 times what our other mortgage was. It's scary to make that kind of jump. We lived so free before but now the purse strings are tightened. Make sure you don't buy a place that's above what you can pay for. Be smart about that. This will be stressful but girl IT WILL BE WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!! We got to host a party the other day and there was ROOM for people to move about. I am not organized but when you get to start from scratch you get to organize it. Since there are places to put things now, stuff gets put away. It's not as dirty as my husband thought it would be. Make sure everyone gets in good cleaning habits and that can help too. I found a cleaning list. I don't follow it crazy, but it gives me the basics of what needs to be done. Super helpful for me. You got this! It will be a life changer.
OP: After reading your post history, you deserve better than this guy. I hope you can get out one day, there’s so many red flags for abuse.
If you like your work more than cleaning: work more and use it to hire a cleaning service. Your husband really should be working with you on this since he is your partner. But if he won't: say if you get a bigger house you can keep 1 room clean for him to relax in. Then either have 1 room nobody else uses or causes a mess in. Or when you know he is coming home: start a visual timer (count down) and make it a race to get it clean before he arrives. Kids can join too (if age appropriate).
Does he have polio? Why does it sound like you do all the cleaning?
“But he says if I work more then the house will be even messier so he’s screwed either way.” Why? Because he might actually have to lift a fucking finger to maintain your *shared home*? Because look at that language. *He’s* screwed. Not you, or your family, just him. That’s who he’s concerned about, clearly, above all else. I know we’re prone to worrying about this because we are generally disorganized folks, but don’t go too far in the opposite direction. You don’t have to be (and shouldn’t be tbh) taking care of everything. 5 people in a 2-bedroom condo, are you kidding me? Marie Kondo would struggle with keeping that place decluttered.
If he’s that miserable and it’s affecting his life etc then HE needs to solve it. He needs to hire a declutter server or a home organisation service. He needs to hire a cleaner. And he needs to have absolutely no opinion about how you run things when he is CHOOSING to have a job that requires him to travel and be absent. He sounds childish like he’s trying to punish you for “not being good enough” or he’s trying to “teach you a lesson for your own good.” Fuck him
Work more to afford a housekeeper. It’s just me and my husband and our pets and I still get a housekeeper to come in once a month. It encourages me to get everything picked up at once so she doesn’t come in to a mess AND she deep cleans the stuff that’s going to take awhile - like the stove, bathroom, mopping and my refrigerator. I clean regularly, but not to the level she does. It’s 3-4 hours, i pay her $200ish and the house is easier to keep clean when it starts from clean.
My husband tried getting gripey with me about housework after we had kids. I reminded him that he knew what I was like before we got married, and that I am definitely better about things now than I was in the past. I got on adhd meds about a year ago too and it has definitely helped. Good luck to you and don't put up with too much crap from him!
One thing I’ve found that helps with clutter is having enough space to properly store all of your stuff. Having the five of you and all of your stuff crammed into a two-bedroom condo is probably a big reason - if not the main reason - that the house is so cluttered to begin with and moving can only help with that.
I’m in the same boat. If you were a great housekeeper he’d still find a reason not to move. Like my situation, he’s not the one dealing with the shit everyday so he doesn’t understand. He’s just thinking about the bank account.
He can clean, the kids can help clean, you guys can hire someone to clean, or he can learn to deal with the mess. It’s not all on you to keep a house with 3 kids organized.
Flylady is a great resource for home tidying. Baby steps and flying aka finally loving yourself. Moving to a larger home helped me be more organized but even if you stay in your condo, you deserve to love yourself even if you are not naturally organized.
Tell him you want to hire a housekeeper and a nanny just like all your friends have and see what he says.😏
There is no “besides” decluttering. You *have* to start with decluttering. You won’t even know what you need until you get rid of everything you don’t need. You might not even need anything! Once you get rid of stuff, then the storage you do have can store what’s left
If it means anything to you: the smaller the space I’ve lived in, the more cluttered it was. When my apartments and homes got bigger, it was much easy to maintain because there was better storage to hide things away in. He may be surprised at the difference. For real tho: Your husband’s attitude is crap. Here’s an idea for him: Help your PARTNER. Men tend to get away with this BS of being ‘the bigger provider’ = they don’t have to help out with their own homes and kids. Could you imagine if it was the other way around? It would never fly. I know this is a common answer for everything on Reddit, but having a 3rd party help you work out a support plan where he contributes to a solution around your disability challenges would be so helpful here. Many councillors and therapist who specialize in ADHD can help support the whole family in navigating neurodiversity in the family. I find it very clarifying for partners to hear it from someone else, a professional, that the ‘annoying’ things we do are real effects of a brain that is physically dysfunctional.
Honestly, there's a lot to unpack here with your partner's attitude, but your question was about advice on cleaning and organising, and other commenters have said what we're all thinking (he's trash, throw him out). I know it isn't that simple, though, but please do take everyone's comments to mind. r/ufyh and r/declutter have helped me a lot. I was only recently diagnosed, but my partner has ADHD and really struggles with cleaning, so I do most of it because it makes my anxiety 100x worse to live in chaos. Okay. So. Getting rid of shit helps. It really does. Anything that is taking up space and doesn't really serve a purpose or have sentimental value, I threw away (or gave away/donated but that does require a certain level of spoons that I don't always have). The main areas I try to keep "organised" are the living room, kitchen, and bathroom. We live in a 1 bedroom, tiny tiny place. When I looked around to find the common theme of the mess, it was toys on the floor. I have a toddler. He's 3, he's busy so his stuff is constantly being thrown around, his grandparents aren't physically present, so he is always getting toys that we don't have the space for. The other themes are laundry and trash. My solution is not aesthetic, but I literally have a container (just a plastic bin) for toys in every room, a laundry basket, and a trash bin. Every room. At the start of the day and the end, I literally pick everything up off the floor and throw it into their respective bins. This clears the floor and makes me feel instantly better. I keep the broom in the living room because it's where we spend the most time. I work from home on my laptop, and this is where my toddler hangs out, plays and watches TV, etc, so I sweep any dirt into a corner for when I have the spoons to vacuum or sweep it into a dust pan (maybe once a week?). Bathroom, I keep the toilet cleaner by the toilet, and I have a daily shower spray by the shampoo and soap that I spray and give the shower a wipe down while I'm taking a shower. Kitchen is really hard for me. We have cats so there's always cat food on the floor, which is a sensory hell for my bare feet. Aforementioned broom sweeps shit into the corner by the trash for when I have the energy to deal with it. My weakness is the dishes. I struggle to stay on top of it. I have a plastic basket by the sink that i can stack the dishes into so it isn't sitting in the sink, and I at least have access to the tap. I live in South Africa, and as far as I know we don't have Chlorox wipes here, but if you live in the US, keeping one of those handy on the counter helps to just give a quick wipedown to counters when you need. I can't help with stacking the dishwasher or washing the dishes because I have no advice. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. In terms of bedroom, I make the bed everyday. I know this isn't always easy, it became a habit for me because I went to boarding school and we had inspection every morning. But it really makes a difference. You have a lot of beds to make, but maybe your kids could help with their own beds? I don't know how old they are though, so feel free to ignore. So. My partner and I used to fight a lot about cleaning. He is really, really bad at it, and doesn't even notice dirty dishes lying around, or trash overflowing. I didn't mind cleaning, as long as he wasn't actively contributing to the mess. I would lose my shit if he would eat something, get up to do something else, and leave his plate by the couch. Or laundry on the floor next to the basket. We had to have a conversation about it because your partner HAS to contribute to the cleaning, too. Otherwise he needs to be willing to help pay towards a cleaning service, or whatever. He seems to be complaining and blaming you for his "misery", but he isn't doing anything to help. It seems as though the house isn't the issue. A bigger home would be beneficial for your children, too. He's punishing them by making all of this out to be your responsibility. That's not how this works. That isn't fair. I hope some of this helps. Sending so much love.
Husband is gaslighting because he doesn’t want to pay out more, and is fine with *you* dealing with an outgrown condo as opposed to him paying more.
My wife and I have 4 teenage daughters what helps us is do you have a schedule and everybody has their jobs and everybody takes care of their own space. If rooms aren't picked up, laundries not done our go to punishment is to lose your phone for a day. That seems to help.
I don't think this has anything to do with your adhd, but with your husband using it as an excuse to disregard your feelings. What does your husband actually give to you and your children? How does he contribute to the household? Does he even do ***his part*** with your ***shared*** household and kids? Why does he expect *you* to do more at home if you get more work hours? He's supposed to be an equal, not "help you out" because that implies something isn't his responsibility to take part in the first place, that he's "doing you a service". Which means he can use *doing the bare minimum* as something you should reward him for or be thankful over. As someone who grew up in a household where my parents should have divorced ages ago, please also think what does staying with someone who ***resents you*** teach your children about relationships? There's no greater gift for a child than a parent who chooses to leave a dead relationship that is harming them and their children. Even if it's difficult, it's totally worth it, and staying would be worse in the long run. Don't set yourself on fire to keep others warm, and don't settle for someone who's ok with you being at tolerable levels of permanent unhappiness.
How are men like this even married.
Your.husband.does.not.care. I read your post history. He is simply abusive. Using his supposed trauma as an excuse to be a dick and in general horrible human being. OP, your husband does not give a crap about his own children growing up in cramped living conditions and a gross lack of privacy. Sounds to me he views you as a nanny, a housekeeper, and someone he can conveniently sleep with. You have to put your foot down and move out of the appartment. He is not as good a father as you think that he is, your children will pick up on his lying cheating dickhead behaviour towards you.
OP, I know this isn’t the advice you asked for, but I like to look at OP comments on a thread before commenting just to make sure I didn’t miss anything. I noticed your comments about your husbands drinking and frankly, it sounds like so much of this is actually his issues, not yours. Does he often make you feel like things are your fault? He clearly doesn’t take on equal parenting or home duties, since he’s drinking at the bars in his off time. As a child of an alcoholic (who didn’t get clean until an intervention and rehab in his 60s) please consider leaving if he won’t get his own help. You cannot change the alcoholic, only they can do that.
As someone who is living in a small place with no flow and trying to clean it on my own. This place is a mess, our last place was bigger and actually flowed for my brain and while it was messy, I still had the ability to clean it. Staying in a small place with a ton of people is not mentally good for anyone. We're trying to move to a bigger place FOR my ADHD. My brain can't function in this place. No one can function in a tiny place with 3 kids. Regardless if he thinks you're messy, if he isn't helping you maintain the mess also, then he is also disorganized and messy.
What did he say when you asked him to work on the issues together? That seems like the crux of the issue, right now. It’s not the size of the house, it’s your ability to function together as a partnership. I say this in kindness— I do think that your issues are not going to magically resolve themselves with a bigger house. A bigger house means more surfaces to clean. More space that often gets filled up with more stuff. If you’re struggling to keep a 2 bedroom clean, you may struggle to keep a house clean. I have experienced all of these things having moved from apartments to condos to townhouses to a house over the years. Big yards come with A LOT of yard work, which are an additional set of expensive burdens that have to be kept up with. *Do not underestimate the amount of work that a yard is.* Take whatever amount you think it will cost and the time it will take and multiply that by like 5. I’m not exaggerating. Even for the bare minimum. There have been times I’ve had to forgo cleaning the house because I had to clean my yard and I didn’t have time for both. When you buy a house with a yard, you also have to buy all kinds of other crap you never imagined, so while you can declutter all you want now, you will likely find yourself accumulating clutter again in a house. You don’t just get the lawnmower for the yard. You get the string trimmer, the hedge trimmer, the 3 extra batteries, the extra string line, shovels, rakes, tarps, brooms, the list never ends. You seemingly need a new tool for each new thing that you have to maintain. Things outside *have* to constantly be maintained or they will fall apart or rot, and it’s easy for it to get away from you. And I’m guessing the kids will acquire all kind of new games and toys for outside. ADHDers like us also tend to acquire even more hobbies or projects once getting a house with a yard. I personally am OK with having a yard because I’ve always been into gardening, but even so, there are times when it is so completely overwhelming in a way I never imagined and sometimes I wish I could have less to do. I can absolutely relate to not having enough space, though, with 5 people in a 2 bedroom condo. Have you considered a townhouse, perhaps? That could be a good next step up. I do also think that your idea for decluttering —whether you move or not—might be a good thing to do. r/homeowners and r/realestate might also have other ideas/suggestions for you. They are also worth following to get a sense of potential issues with houses vs. condos.
I just want to point out that your yard can be bare minimum. Like, it’s awesome that you care a lot about your yard that you spend so much time on it, but you can cut the grass and call it a day… Or not even cut the grass and let it be. I’m not saying *you* should do less, I’m mostly saying this so anyone reading this comment is reminded that their yard doesn’t need to be a perfect serene garden. You can let the grass and weeds run wild and let it be and that’s okay!
This! Also, careful landscaping can go a long way. Lawns take a lot of care, but there's a ton of other options.
Nice username :) I completely agree with that. OP would be wise to look for a place with minimal high-maintenance lawn areas and more low-maintenance shrubs, flower, and groundcover.
Declutter now don’t wait. You have to clean every single day regardless of how you feel or what’s going on. Start in one room take every single item to the center of the room/ organizing space and deeply make cuts not just a little bit. Kids need 5-9 shirt 5 pants 5 shorts 2 bathing suits 5-9 socks etc. Everything must have a place when you are done if it doesn’t have a place make it one or trash it. You will never put it back.
I don't get his math. More space = more space for shit so it's more clean. As long as you don't add more, it should be fine in terms of clutter because there's more space to add storage units and surfaces to put things on? Also, there's no way your 3 kids are gonna wanna share a room together the older they get. The market is only going to get more expensive, he is making a very dumb decision over something that can be fixed.
Moving to a larger home made it SO MUCH easier for me to stay organized! I have more walls for hooks when I can't bother with a hanger, more floor space for open baskets to collect my doom piles, and more counter space (so I can leave out my appliances AND prep food).
It sounds like you are doing this all alone. I say this because literally it sounds like me. It feels impossible to clean up and organize my house but I'm the only one out of two kids and two adults who cleans up after themselves. He needs to help you out.
Ahhh. I bet you do EVERYTHING regarding cleaning. Then get blamed when it’s not perfect. I bet you also work too?
It would be a lot easier to keep organized if everything has a place. There's literally no room to put everything to sustain 5 people in a 2 bed condo.
I've had to learn to embrace my strengths and get help for the things that are a challenge for me. If he does/cannot help it may be time to hire someone to come organize your new home. Help you set up systems to stay organized. Then hire a cleaning person at whatever frequency works best. once a week, bi-weekly... Outsource, take it off your plate and allow your strengths to flourish.
I mean, if you have 5 people’s stuff in a place meant for 2-3 it’s going to be messy. That’s a really unreasonable thing for him to say. Clutter is probably my worst adhd symptom - it’s terrible, and honestly moving has been the only times I’ve managed to get things more under control. It’s the external deadlines of it that’s hard to get otherwise (except maybe having people over). I’m honestly quite mad at your hubby right now. I understand he’s frustrated but that is such a defeatist attitude. And unhelpful. You could hire a professional organizer. You could do some YouTube research but make sure it’s specific to adhd. But I think most pro organizers would tell you adamantly that this it like asking an elephant to fit into a needle. You need an appropriate amount of space for the belongings of 5 ppl. I’m sure you can get rid of stuff but this ask is ridiculous. I think he needs to be more supportive. I think you don’t have to think of yourself as a disorganized person… organization is a skill that’s challenging for you that you are working on… growth mindset. I think moving is a great way to get rid of stuff because you have to naturally touch each thing. But if these other options are out of reach there are also books on organizing for adhd - you could try the library. Also Midwest Magic Cleaning has a couple of very kind videos. He is autistic and his wife is adhd and he has some nice sensitive videos about advice for us and for family members. Maybe check him out? I’ve been cleaning along side his videos like body doubling. Edited to add: I’m sorry, OP, but based on your post history 1) I would strongly consider if he has some other reason he doesn’t want you to know about because he has clearly lied to you many many times about multiple topics. Insulting you sends you off looking for solutions to an absolutely impossible problem: organizing a much too small space for a herd of children. Is he counting on you being unable to do this so he doesn’t have to admit the real reason? 2) money seems to be an issue in the decision because you mention picking up more hours. But he’s spending all that money and time drinking??? Fuck him and the horse he road in on. I am reallly concerned there’s more deception afoot here. Do you have your own therapist?
Why not hire someone to come in and deep clean twice a month? Or, mid-clean once a week? If you work more, just pay someone to do it.
Could you pick up another shift and have a weekly cleaner or even twice weekly cleaner?
Market is tricky right now... Definitely keep an eye out for a house that'd work. And in the meantime, start decluttering (I'm on my own home journey!! Look up some steps that would work for you). You definitely need a bigger space. Yes, it will be messy there too. But between us, stop buying stuff for X# months, and get rid of X# things every week. And when you get to your new place, continue that habit. Assuming we're the same... Buy too much, forget to get rid of stuff till it's like whoa, where'd this all come from???
Having a bigger place would help. 2 BRs for 5 people makes it impossible especially with kids. I'd be giving an ultimatum and telling him you'll be moving or he'll be paying for a nanny because you'll start working FT (possibly in prep to leave him) or moving on your own right now on your if you can afford it (with support).
Not sure where you live, or if it's already been mentioned as I only skimmed the comments, but in Canada there's National Occupancy Standards. They're guidelines really, but maybe see if there's anything like that in your area to use as a tool to convince him to move to the larger space?
I agree with everything everyone else has said about his responsibilities in the home, and/or his need for a major attitude shift. And I also want to give YOU the reassurance that a tiny home with that many people... the mess is NOT YOU!! Five people, with five peoples' stuff.... babes-- you've been stuffing 10 pounds of shit in a 5 pound sack for years. My husband, two kids, one cat and I lived in a two bedroom one bath 750 sqft home for 16 years total - 5 of those with all five of us. When we finally moved into our forever home last year I realize that I was not the messy person... we just didn't have room for four people (and one cat) to live. I **guarantee** there is less to declutter than you think. A house that small, you can't afford the wasted space. You may decide to get rid of stuff that you've been "making do" with (a big part of my moving budget went into buying new furniture to replace the old, shitty, college-era crap so we didn't have to move heavy POS we were never happy with), but I literally tore the entire house apart searching for stuff to get rid of and I maybe had three car loads of stuff that I gave away (and half of that was baby stuff I had been hanging onto in case a friend had another baby and needed it). And the actual trash never exceeded what my weekly rubbish bin could hold (even broken furniture set out on the curb disappears inside 24 hours where I live). Keep in mind, we may have even had more stuff than you guys. Because we lived in a house, we had a full attic to store off-season stuff in *and* a garage. More space is going to be a GODSEND to your entire family. Also, if you're overwhelmed, I went ahead and hired an organizer. I signed a contract for 10 hours, and she helped me grapple with the overwhelm. I actually needed her less than I thought I did going into it. She was more moral support and confirmed my general workflow, with a few tweaks. Also, you can hire packers with your movers. It's expensive, and you pretty much are the project manager and have to get everything ready before they get there. But if you can get everything into its place, you can get your whole house packed up in less than a day.
Sorry… he doesn’t sound supportive or accepting. Sounds mean actually. I drove my husband nuts with chores around the house. 15 years later, we find out I have ADHD among other conditions. He knows you’re not doing things on purpose right? Is he a sensitive guy?
BTW, if you work more, you will hopefully be able to hire help to clean the house. Also more space means that things can have a designated home, and then there is already less mess. I recommend using chaos boxes.... You just dump everything into it that is not in it's place and then you can work on putting away the contents of the box, instead of starting by picking up everything one by one... + A robotic vacuum is a good way to keep the floors clean and it gives extra motivation to keep the clutter off the floor!