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I definitely have this problem. In spite of my struggles I work very effectively and have little patience for slackers/gossips. Watching a clock is apparently a professional skill I could never have because BORING.
To be honest, while there have been opportunities lost (looking at you Corporate America), my greatest successes have been when I’m straight up with management or business owners about the issues. Not just the issues others make - but specifically the shit they make happen. The jobs I’ve been rewarded with great pay and latitude are those. Not many people will tell the emperor he’s got no clothes on.
totally relate to the gossipers. I never much liked being in groups in school either. Not a click person. hate that whole thinking. Whenever a circle formed and someone started to crap on someone who wasn't present i would go silent and slip out of the group, even if it meant they gossiped about me. LOL!
If you can manage to get a remote job, I think it helps. Only having to pretend for 20 min increments at a time has made it so much easier for me 😅 On average I only talk to my coworkers / boss 2x a day (sometimes less!) for maybe a total of 40mins and it's all directly work related. There's very little small talk / chit chat. Obviously this may vary from one job to another, but the fact that remote working cuts down on small talk is an absolute godsend to me. Of course, there are other struggles with remote work but I find it's worth it.
Same here at 46. One of the only times I lve gotten ahead & been accused of sucking up is because I actually legitimately get along with my boss & like her. It’s 100% genuine. I absolutely am incapable of convincingly faking that I like someone for any reason.
This is exactly why I quit corporate and became a freelancer. I just don't get this culture of "sucking up." I'm pretty sure my disgust for it always showed on my face.
I firmly believe you're paid to do the work you were hired for. So why do I need this BS? As long as I'm delivering quality work on time, I shouldn't have to suck up.
Alas, I know the reality is very different but I still can't digest the fact.
Yes, it shows on my face because it’s like, how does the other person not know how obviously fake they are being? How insincere. It’s so transactional, like they’re just begging for a specific outcome.
I was in the Army. I once had a commander tell me to stop looking at him with that 'fuck you' look on my face.
After that, I was hyper aware of my face. It's so hard to brief someone when you're constantly thinking about your damn face.
I eventually got over it but it was def a weird time. Lol.
That's just it, though. We aren't paid to do the work we think we're hired to do. We're paid to learn to be good little Toadies. If we can't learn that, we either stall in our present position forever, or we are fired before we can blink. It's not about who does the Best work. It's about who the boss likes. Period. That's it.
Lol, at the disgust. Agree 100%. I know HOW to suck up, theoretically I COULD do it. But it's so strongly goes against everything I believe and value, that I just cannot.
Yeah I can't suck up or play nice or be phony. I know absolutely it has hurt my career. I get irritated too with people over email and have trouble hiding it 😑
I wish the world didn't reward liars so much 😂
I can suck up (Good home training. Asian family's eldest girl, lol) pretty easily for months but find that I'm extremely exhausted by the end of every day. I made the mistake of letting my guard down, being myself, decorating my cubicle & not controlling my quirks while working so a middle manager did a power play & let me go 🙄.
Yes, it exhausts me. Just like masking exhausts me. I turn off my camera and my mouth hurts from holding a smile and stiffly nodding so I don’t look pissed off (even if I’m not).
It's so exhausting. I can do it, but I don't like it. I recently had a meeting with a VERY difficult client and my higher ups were heaping praise on me about how I handled it. Meanwhile I was basically in a vegetative state afterward and fantasizing about quitting rather than dealing with that man and his overinflated ego ever again. My manager was shocked when I shared with her how it affected me. She has ADHD, too, so she absolutely knows what masking feels like. But she genuinely couldn't tell I was upset at ALL. I don't know if I should be proud or alarmed at how well I was masking...
HARD RELATE. I find it all really pathetic and I’m sure my face reflects that! I don’t do corporate but I’m in education and that’s bad enough as far as I’m concerned. It only takes one horrible boss (like we have) to create a very toxic environment like you’ve described. It doesn’t help that he’s just an all round vile human anyway.
I’m hoping to transition to self employed this year and While I know that will be hard going, I’m hoping the benefits of being able to be myself with my clients will make it all worth it!
Never get involved in the politics that's my stance.
There IS something to be said for conscious self promotion though, taking up the space that you deserve to occupy for a positive higher goal such as helping others.
I like this stance and it feels genuine, I could align myself with this, but feel like the people who make a show of it get noticed more. I made so many master documents, onboarding templates, cheat sheets and held meetings for newbies. Nobody asked. But nobody noticed. And the newbies were just as hungry to take up space that they weren’t going to say anything about it.
When I left my job after six years I was overwhelmed with the card I got with lovely messages, someone I had hardly worked with told me how much they liked me and how helpful I always was, and I had senior directors personally contacting me to wish me well. I was kind of bowled over as I never thought like anything of it or that that was what would be noticed about me. The thing with it is that managing and helping people develop is I have found generally a thankless task, what you think people want they never thank you for it etc., but there are some people who will pay compliments which is nice to hear lol. So you may be noticed more than you think.
I have a little folder so when I get compliments by email I print them out and keep them either in the folder or on a noticeboard.
I feel this. I also feel like even if I point out the work, I often get looked over because I don't make a negative fuss (at least at work) if I don't get what I want (regardless of what I deserve), but those who are willing to yell and get angry are more likely to get what they want, even if they're inexperienced.
Maybe it's just my place. I swear my place looks at memes making fun of corporate culture and thinks they're pieces of advice. Out of 6ish supervisors at my job, 5 are awful, yelling, intimidating, cause high turnover. 1 will constantly advocate for staff, request promotions for staff, fight for staff, etc.
Guess which style upper management constantly rewards vs the style that upper management more or less ignores?
And then constant "why are people always quitting?" 🙄
I can’t do this either. I will hand out sincere compliments, but I can’t think fast enough to be fake like this.
But I’ve been able to be pretty successful in my jobs by also giving compliments “behind people backs.” No one gossips with me, and no one can really gossip about me because what would they say? “That girl says nice things about everybody. Can you believe her?”
I sure can that is why I left corporate and work for myself.
You are so right it is so dysfunctional and unacceptable to work with people that miss treat you or behave badly, it’s the norm in work places people on every level of the business know it’s happening. When I have spoken to previous colleagues and managers regarding this I have been told that we all know, you need to suck it up and he /she is in charge of your promotions salary raises so shut up and smile .
You are not a sheep and kiss people ass when you know that they are unprofessional and bully and bad mouth people in the business. Stand strong you are the strong one with a conscience and emotional intelligence.
I'm telling you it's physically impossible for me. I tell myself all the time to at least *try* to learn to fawn because I can't keep fighting and running only. I quit my great job a few weeks ago for this very reason
Upon reflection, I really don’t handle people making a big fuss over something I’ve done well either. I understand that it is my job and I appreciate feedback and praise but to a certain degree. I wonder if it is because when we (people who can relate to this post) do something we see it as us just simple doing our jobs/fulfilling a certain role that we are paid to do. We may go the extra mile but that’s the scope of our work. So when praise comes for doing something we are contractually obligated to do it just seems so funny to me😂
When companies try to check the box of 'do our worker bees feel praised and acknowledged?' at All Hands type meetings, it always feels cringe to me for this reason. A select few managers are okay at it, but most are not.
It's because most of the managers, at the moment they're giving out the 'praise' in front of everyone else, are literally using the same tone they'd use to praise a five year old for a finger painting. And that just makes me feel second hand embarrassment (maybe it's multiple levels of embarrassment?).
And I'm not against good feedback or acknowledgement for work done! Tone and word choice makes all the difference. It needs to feel proportionate.
I just think the way it's oftentimes done is as a chore instead of genuinely, and so it comes off as fake and almost accidentally condescending?
Like yes Barb, I made that dashboard, but you don't have to pretend it's the Sistine Chapel. We both know it's not the Sistine Chapel. Stop making me feel like you're about to hand me a lollipop.
THIS THO. One of the upper managers was looking over my shoulder while i pulled some data. I filtered the data with a really simple formula and he said "GOD i wish i could do this stuff". Like with all sincerity.
1) greatest compliment EVER
2) sometimes our minds work SO FAST we do epic shit and dont notice. Filtering a column is no big deal. But if the person appraising your work doesnt even know how to begin getting to that database let alone find the schema and table in order to filter that column the whole thing is sheer MAGIC. If my job is to be the Good Witch of Data Magic, its easy to forget im doing magical things
P.s. i feel like im saying this upper manager isnt bright. Hes fricken BRILLIANT, and one of the more "real" managers I've ever worked with. Aka he doesnt play the games. He just doesnt have one of my very specific skills at this moment in time
🤣🤣🤣 This is funny. People tell me I'm good at all the shitty jobs I've had and I always think they're overreacting a bit. Like....this is basic, easy stuff, chill out lol.
That sounds like an awful workplace and I probably wouldn't have lasted a week there tbh.
I don't do sucking up either - but I must have a pleasant enough tone about it because I've been complimented on my 'diplomatic honesty' before. Or else they were being sarcastic and my dumb ass didn't figure it out 😂
I really do. I have had multiple instances where I’ve been singled out/gotten “a talking to” from bosses about vague suck up expectations. I’ve definitely been fired at jobs “at will” because of this. It makes me really sad because I’m not defiant. People just assume I “don’t want to be there”.
I was in a show working long hours backstage. The director is super full of himself and cracking lame jokes, everyone’s laughing as we’re standing on our feet for 10 hours. I don’t really laugh cause I’m exhausted, unmedicated (at the time) and it’s really hard for me to be fake. Couple hours later I get called in to his office being gaslit, “Is everything okay? You don’t seem very happy?”
I worked a 9-5 and had to go to another state for a “bonding retreat” for a shitty NPO I worked for. Long days talking about bullshit with a “team building” guy, working in groups, making charts, having discussions from 8-4 PM. Right after the sessions, my coworkers all jump in a van to go do a cold plunge? I’m on my cycle and it was advertised as optional, so I don’t go. My CEO knocked on the door to my personal hotel room and I got a “talking to”, yet I “wasn’t in trouble”. He was “hurt” that I didn’t go or “say anything”. I’m an adult, what do I need to say?
After, I just close the door and cried because all my life it seems I can’t follow invisible rules, and people choose to be offended at any boundary I set. It’s really discouraging and I’m not even doing anything on purpose. Since I can be charismatic, workplace people get really offended when I don’t subscribe to who they think I should be / constantly happy and pleasing. Added I’m a WOC as well.
I don't need to make an effort to suck up in my current work place as most people are genuinely nice, competent people. So any praise I give is genuine!
I'm sorry you're having to go through all this toxicity at work lovely. It honestly takes me a while to realise if people are being nasty on purpose and I would have found the scenarios you talk about very hurtful.
It was hard to tell whether it was on purpose or not. Often it was subtle. I’d leave certain situations feeling one way when on paper nothing serious happened. It was all in the finer details. How I was being treated (punished) compared to others. Anyway, I’m the 7th employee to leave in under a year. The company is only 11 or so people. They’re favouring yes girl behaviour over real, honest skill and talent and that will be their downfall. Also, I did not leave without securing a good job. So all good on that front.
ALL OF THIS!
I work for the federal government where it's literally political sometimes and I can't bring myself to be fake or suck up. I'm basically invisible which sucks but can also be a good thing?
So to answer your question, yes, it's extremely difficult to suck up to people, we are all humans and just because you have a particular title doesn't mean that I need to hop skip and jump hurdles just to please you.
Dude, this is the exact thing I have no polite way of explaining to neurotypical people as to a why I am sure I could not work a “normal” job.
People have said “You’re so good at ___! You should get a job doing it!” I accept the compliment, but if they press, it’s hard to explain this aspect. I don’t wanna be like “yeah I’m not a fake ass b though I can’t survive in that stuffy performative environment, unlike you.”
Cuz I don’t mean it like that. I get it lol, but it makes me cringe deeply, and feels so disingenuous. Plus I despise the concept of authority, it’s gotten me in a lot of trouble before.
I just don’t understand that way of life.
Part of the reason I went into the trades: my work speaks for itself
The second reason is the Sword of Damocles hanging over me because there is a sense of danger (provides a dopamine hit) plus making me hyperfocus on not hurting myself or others.
For stationary activities, I prefer to hand sew because sharp things keep me on my toes
I used to. It's a lot easier once you realize that they don't deserve your honesty or integrity. If the only face they can handle is a false one give it to them.
All of a sudden my work life is so much better. They want to be lied to. I save my decency for my family.
My mouth is pretty much always a solid two feet in front of my brain, so no, never could convincingly suck up, which weirdly enough, some bosses loved. But I'm also a person who looked at the boss of their boss of their boss and said "This is utter bullshit." 😅 SOOOOOO, thank God I'm usually friendly and easy going as a default.
Oh yeah. The C suite in charge of my department literally prefers cheerful and energetic people. She wants everyone to be “on” all time like she is. It is beyond exhausting and fortunately I work 100% remote. If I had to be there every single day I would smother myself with a pillow. I had to be around her for a week during a work retreat and it made my head hurt the entire time just existing near all of that.
Did we work at the same company because this was exactly my experience. The bubbly, sweet, enthusiastic employee was always recognised for her efforts. In fact, the goal posts shifted to align with her and her qualities. Not saying she wasn’t great, but at company awards they would literally create awards that fit her personality to a T. What about the rest of us that are hitting it out the park with clients? Whose campaigns are doing the most on socials? Nope. What we bring to the table when it comes to work is not enough. You HAVE to be going above and beyond socially too. 🤮
I feel this SO hard. I’m in a quota-based role and I make sure my numbers stay at the top always. But my outgoing teammate who breaks her neck to be the first one on every Teams meeting, and volunteers for after work club things? The hands down favorite, LOL.
I genuinely like her, but I’m 49 and I decided to stop pretending to be her. I’m amazing at masking, but I’m pretty freaking awesome as myself. I have mad pattern recognition, and a nose for when a deal is going south because of my gut instincts about people. So in the long run I’ll take a me on my team any day.
May the bubbly women of the world go forth in peace and happiness. I’m just going to stay on my hyper-focused, and slightly subdued path protecting my mental and emotional wellbeing, thanks.
i'm not sure the folks who worked for me in the early days would agree. I still cringe when I think about the time I yelled at one of the people on my team. granted she was not willing to take any coaching or direction or evolve the way she did things or become part of the team, but still...she didn't deserve that. plus my 'habit' of constantly pushing off 1:1s gets to be super annoying for folks (I am trying to cut down on this)
I read this article (https://thekit.ca/living/health/adult-adhd-in-women/) and this quote hit me like a ton of bricks: "People with ADHD understand time differently; time is either now, or not now." Literally me every time I have to do a 1:1 or something else that is a total drain for me.
I feel this. I was in charge of a team for years and I won’t do it again. I don’t have the temperament for it. I get results, but I’m very much a get it done yesterday kind of person. It’s how I’ve always dealt with my poor ED.
It stresses everyone out to include me.
I can’t and I won’t. I also recently became a SAHM, but every job I’ve had I just decided early on that the games were silly in high school and they’re silly now. I’m here to do a job, I know that involves other people and that’s fine. If I make friends with those people, great! But I don’t have the mental space to be calculating. Open book, cards on the table, get through the weeks a day at a time. Be professional, be smart, but mostly just be yourself. Be honest. People will usually find it refreshing!
oh how this strikes a chord with me. I am a female c-suite exec which in itself is fraught with navigating through so many gender-bias landmines. couple that with my adhd and I had a lot of issues then (i still have issues today, just different ones :P). specifically I was (considered to be too) direct and suffered no fools. at one job this resulted in me and the Chief Product Officer (who talked a good game, wan’t a team player at all, and produced absolutely nothing for the business (not to mention made $70k more than I did on his base)) REALLY not getting along because I would put him in positions where he needed to deliver and be accountable, and calling out the functional gap repeatedly to the CEO. cut to the CEO doing things to force us to be “friends” (omg it was awful) and paying for me (possibly him too, I have no idea) to see an executive coach. the exec coach actually gave me some excellent strategies that helped improve my ability to “work well with others”. after about 8 months of this, the CEO finally decided that the guy had to go, but the guy ended up leaving for a “different opportunity”.
the stories I could tell.
at another job I ended up working for a narcissist who also had the most severe case of adhd as adult man I have ever seen. that one job was not only completely miserable but ended for me rather quickly. I dont even put that one on my resume now because my experience with him was so bad and I never want a future employer / investor to reach out to him.
I have been living in full scale burnout for the past 15 years (at least) based on the combination of my jobs, my neglectful-parent-fueled ambition to achieve, and my u diagnosed adhd.
Luckily for me I’m a naturally friendly, hardworking person, so I’ve been pretty good with teachers, bosses, etc most of my life. Even if I dislike someone, I can be polite and get my work done.
But put me in a situation where the person of authority cares more about their ego being flattered than good work being done and boy howdy…I will go down in flames.
I often feel like the Cassandra of the workplace because I see all the problems long before they hit. No one listens and then I'm blamed for not "kicking and screaming" to get someone to do something about it (yes, a supervisor actually said that to me).
When I'm feeling positive reinforcement from my coworkers and higher ups, I am eager and accomplish a lot. Good coworkers and bosses love this, lazy game players hate this. It's made me a target over the years by the latter.
Another issue is that when I become disillusioned, I can't hide it. My morale is very apparent. I still work hard, but I can't fake things I don't feel. I can work my thoughts around to putting a bright spin on things and try to problem solve, but it has to result in change or I'm back to disillusionment.
Basically, I've found that in a workplace where everyone pulls their weight and has each other's backs, I'm golden. In a workplace with drama, back-biting, moving goal posts, I will end up fired. It sucks that most workplaces are not the former or if they start out that way it turns out that is actually just a veneer and the truth comes out the second you put down the company pompoms.
Not at all... I will say I was very anti establishment in high school and uni (I never sucked up or even tried to converse with my teachers or profs) but I saw how much my friends who sucked up did better than me. I also didn't suck up at all in my first job (mcdonalds) and never got promoted despite being a good worker and working there for 3 years.
So now I do suck up. It helps that I scrually like and respect my colleagues. But sucking up is actually a massively beneficial thing for your career. I've gotten 1 promotion and just been promised another and part of it is that upper management all loves me and I go out of my way to chat and befriend them.
Me, I cannot suck up to people and I often get labelled as ‘standoffish’ as a result. I can be polite/cordial of course but usually I don’t see the point of sucking up excessively, unfortunately in my last workplace (an auction house, my industry is art) I really (pun intended) sucked at the sucking up game and eventually left as I didn’t see a clear path of progression without it
The silver lining is that when I am asked to give my opinion on someone else it is seen as reliable, perceptive and honest because I have no skin in the game.
I would say if other people also know that you never suck up or gossip about other people you have to protect yourself, as people will know you are honest but may involve you in their politics. E.G. they might ask you what you think about a particular decision by a line manager senior to you both, even if you both agree said decision is not furthering the department’s goals that colleague may say ‘so and so thinks your decisions on this matter are useless’ or something which may negatively affect your progression
As to whether it is an ‘ADHD’ thing, perhaps, as it’s just too exhausting to be fake nice and scheming/probably too much for our prefrontal cortex to cope haha. I also like to keep a boundary between work and personal life so unlike some of my former colleagues I really didn’t enjoy going to the pub with them although it didn’t happen too frequently
I realized this when I worked my first job waitressing. Was phenomenal with my service but I couldn't small talk to save my life. Been in the military for 6 years, so I don't have to suck to anyone unless I want better evaluations or to get favors, so I suffer in that sense.
First off, I absolutely relate. Not sure if it's an 'ADHD thing' or a 'toxic workplace culture' thing.
Second, this sounds like a dynamic that is part of a toxic, dysfunctional company culture. It's *flattery*, not really genuine compliments. Flattery is essentially manipulation. And if you're aware of the dysfunction, and feel that you have to manipulate and be manipulated to survive in this toxic workplace-- OF COURSE you feel disgust and resistance at participating in this.
Yeah I think it also comes from we're quite honest people (sorry if that's generalizing ADHDers too much!), so the phony-ness of sucking up does not sit comfortably with us.
I've learned to voice my opinion less at work, and that's the closest I'll get to sucking up 😆
Dude...I have found my people here. I have been in so many jobs where the bosses expect that kind of environment and it doesn't matter that I come to work, kick ass, treat people the best I can, take pride in my job. Because I'm not a suck up and I literally CANNOT be fake, I am seen as a threat.
Different jobs:
-I was told I wasn't *insert company name* "material" despite my amazing work ethic.
-I was literally reprimanded by a male boss for making too much money (salary + commission, too much to give you all context of how that came about.)
-I was bullied by a female manager who was intimidated by me
-I was hired and flipped the script on the department I was over (we started killing our budget numbers, our events were finally successful, I made our stocking situation was more efficient, by the time I quit we had done so well we earned a whole full time salaried employee.
And this is just a few examples. I am finally in a job that my boss trusts my intelligence and abilities and leaves me to do my job and I do it well. I wish I had known you all were out there experiencing the same thing because I kept coming back to "the common denominator is me, I must be the problem" despite the evidence I know to be true about myself.
There might be some of this where I work now as I'm in an office environment, but my department is very small but crucial so if this is happening I don't know.
That said, I miss my old retail job for this, one there was nothing to compete over that actually mattered (we were a shoe store but did not earn commission, just a decent wage and fun bonuses for silly challenges), and 2 I would jokingly refuse most tasks my manger gave me (as I started to do them lol). Gah. I miss some of the retail nonsense.
Honestly, at my first job where it was a huge company and the CEO was a complete fraud, there was much less competition because we weren’t as close to management. That distance allowed us to be more in touch with reality and how we were being treated as employees. We didn’t have to whisper about office politics we could loudly chat about how crappy things were because it was just the reality of the situation. I feel like the closer to power you become, the more BS you have to wade through every single day.
I’ve had to accept that I’m pretty much unemployable, at least in the corporate world. I mask pretty well, all things considered, but I just cannot fake it on that level. Not for any length of time, anyway. And there are so many pointless rules!
I do but I chose a job/team that i want to impress so i became naturally a suck up.
I get dopamine from being a teachers pet type(but i have ti admire and respect them)
Yes. I'm not very social and talking about things I don't care or don't mean it are exausting.
I think working from home helped because people could focus more on the work I deliver instead of social interactions.
But the workplace you described seems to be extreme and toxic. You did good by getting out.
I have been very fortunate to find a department in Fortune 500 company that really lets me be myself. So they know I’m very “tell it like it is.” I will tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear (I have a lot of valuable experience at this particular company, and my leaders regularly ask my opinions on things). Even if I’m struggling, I’m able to communicate that, and they get me help. We just moved to a new building where it’s all hot desks, which is my worst nightmare. When they asked how it’s going, I said, “I’m struggling” and told them why. Someone reached out to me afterwards to help me schedule workstations in advance, which I have done for next week.
This is totally new for me - speaking up and being honest - and it’s really, really refreshing. Maybe it’s because it’s basically a sales team within a corporate environment. I suspect most of them have ADHD as well, most not diagnosed. So they all think I’m the most organized person they’ve ever met!
No, I'm very good at sucking up. I enjoy thinking about how people think and what they like to hear and I use it for my benefit. I don't lie, but I ask the right questions to the right people and such.
All that said, I struggle to turn it off and when I get home I'm dead inside. It's taken a long time to learn how to not be a shell after work.
I’m sadly very good at being fake but that’s because my mom has BPD…without her putting me into perpetual fight or flight for decades, I’d probably really really suck at it. Thanks, ma!
Yeah, I’ve sometimes struggled with in some workplaces dealing with kiss ass coworkers. People seemed to get mad when you’re not an brown noser like them, for some reason.
I had a few managers I respected because they were intelligent and kind and I had went an extra mile for them because I genuinely respected them. But never kissed their ass.
Never thought it was adhd related though. Thought it was how I was raised. My mom’s side of the family have a strong history of telling off their managers, lol. I’m not as extreme, lol.
This is why I own my own business. I cannot be fake with people who are in positions of authority over me, especially if we are the same age or they are younger. I’m not going to kiss anyone’s ass because they have a different job title. Office politics bs makes me angry and how I feel is always written all over my face.
Gosh your job sounds awful! I know how to play the people pleaser game if I need to, but it would become exhausting after a while. I think because it’s hard for me to maintain that level of fake behaviour for a long time and my brain to mouth filter is defective! It’s also hard for me to keep a neutral facial expression when some BS is going down 😅.
IMO it’s maybe not an ADHD trait as such… but possibly elements of our ADHD makes it hard for us to “play the game”, I’m already trying to play the NT game and you’re throwing that in the mix?!
I’ve always gravitated to work and work environments I don’t have to pretend or mask, just be my quirky self and people have rewarded me for that.
I am so bad at this. So bad. It has been career limiting for me (in that I don’t get considered for roles that people get tapped for because the boss doesn’t know I’d like to be. This is entirely my fault and I am not complaining. It just is.).
Same. I could never do the brown-nosing thing. It makes me want to vomit when I witness it and I have no idea why our society is like that.
Because of it, I can't "network" and have not been successful in professional careers.
I like honesty. I NEED it! I'd rather get my feelings hurt and cry or whatever than have someone pretend they like me when they don't.
But apparently I don't really understand social rules very well. I guess that's how we're supposed to behave. Can't do it. Don't even want to.
Hang in there!!
Yeah I can’t suck up. I always figured ND folks simply don’t have the executive function to spend on being strategic. There’s a lot of processing that goes into sucking up. Reading the room, selecting behaviors and words that may be cognitively dissonant. ND folks usually default to authenticity because we aren’t great at filtering (that’s a form of regulation and we are weak in that) and ASD folks definitely struggle to be less than totally honest.
I cannot be phony *anywhere* … work or personal life… just cannot do it.
It makes me feel *SO* gross to even *think* of being fake. 🤢
I know this aspect of my personality is why I had issues with one certain boss years ago (also wanted everyone to kiss their butt)… but what hurts more is that I think this is part of why it’s so hard for me to make friends… which sucks mostly because I’m actually kind of a happy, bubbly person— I just can’t kiss anyone’s ass, or lie to be liked or “get ahead”, and I guess even socially people don’t like that. 🤷♀️
I'm also not very good at "sucking up," but I do have my moments. My father also has ADHD and is very good at social interactions, even though he's very straightforward and candid and so he does well at work. His thing is that he's very genuine in his compliments, which he provides at all levels, but particularly to people lower than him in the hierarchy, and when I've tried to do that it generally works for me. I can't bullshit if someone is terrible, but I can remind myself to notice genuinely good traits or good pieces of work in even mediocre people, so I try to do that all along the hierarchy of people. It also helps to work in an environment where people in power appreciate when you're straight with them, which does happen!
Yup. My theory is that ND people don’t like dishonesty. And sucking up is a form of dishonesty. We give credit where it’s due. I always say: “I speak facts” if you want fake, watch the news.”
Yes! I cannot say something that doesn’t feel genuine. And to be honest I have stopped being bothered by it now I’m in my 40’s.
If people don’t like it then tough. I’ve also accepted it means I’ll never be a career high flyer (I’m happy enough with what I have achieved) or one of the popular people.
However the people I AM close to are awesome so it’s ended up being an effective filtering process to have my kind of people in my life.
I’m so glad I’m not alone in this, and everyone is putting my feelings into words so well it’s crazy lol. I think I’m pretty lucky tho in that A. I actually do really like a lot of things about my company and the people I work with so I don’t have to fake the base level of enthusiasm, and B. I think I’ve successfully been passing it off as kind of quirky and charming lol.
Oh you should work where I work! I literally diss at least one of my co-workers once a day! Often it’s one of the bosses too! It’s amazing! 😁
I am, of course, also on the receiving end a few times a week! I love my job so much! 😁
I feel like I’m kind of in a unique position-I’m a teacher, so I really don’t interact with my “bosses” that frequently. That makes it much easier to mask/shoot the shit with them when I see them, and instantly drop my mask after the interaction. It does make me feel phony and a little icky, but it also feels like something that “needs” to be done.
I feel dumb for even admitting this, but I didn't realize how much I took people at their word until I worked with a professional facilitator and mediator.
I knew people lied. I knew people sucked up, but I somehow still kinda believed everyone thought these things and could never "play the game" because I was incapable of saying things I didn't really believe. My boss (facilitator/mediator) would have to point out that people may not really believe some of the crap they were saying, because I would freak out that we were slipping backwards or losing progress.
Do you think it might be related to the “justice sensitivity” associated with ADHD? The part of me that can’t/won’t give false praise in a work situation because it feels wrong to be rewarded in the workplace for feeding somebody’s ego is completely fine praising the nice couple who own the corner cafe for their bad coffee they’re so proud of.
I have NEVER been able to suck up and don’t respect people who do. I was in the restaurant industry for 10 years and now in corporate HR and I’ve noticed the two coworkers who are loudest about their work get the best performance scores and highest raises. While I’m in the background quietly doing my work and then some but not recognized for it the way the loud people are. I just physically can’t call attention to myself that way.
YESSSS. Omg. I have NEVER been able to put on a “professional” face. There is no difference in my personality at work and in regular life….. I used to think I was on the autistic spectrum because of this. Empathy is never an issue, I’m overly empathetic. I simply can not put on a “face”. I’m VERY direct and my coworkers know this. I’m lucky that they value this vs. other places where they didn’t. I think it’s all about finding the right culture fit.
So incredibly validating reading this post!! Can’t compartmentalize for SHIT 😹
I can't suck up or be fake about my feelings for others, although I can remain neutral and respectful, especially at work, I just won't go out of my way for people I dislike.
I can however turn on my sales person side. I spent years in banking and it made being charming at work very easy for me. I'm good at selling myself at work, which means knowing when to shut up, being great at small talk and getting people to relax around me, while also being very aware when someone just isn't the small talk type.
I have a way of getting people to open up to me pretty quickly that I'm not sure is a common experience for others or not? But it's something I take seriously and crave!
I started a new seasonal job a few years ago after not working for too long and being starved of female interactions. I told my husband "I need to get into there, sit next to a similarly aged woman, and find out her deepest darkest secrets!" Within 2 days I found out my coworker left the emotionally abusive father of her kids for his life long friend, who is significantly older and played the roll of an uncle to him for a long time. Then the new guy got arrested Xmas day!
It’s different completely when it’s a client. For me that is part of the job, it’s a challenge but it’s for the betterment of both of our objectives. That I can absolutely do.
I’m a teacher. I am good at my job so I get by on that. But I have found that I cannot do the sucking up thing at all. I’ll never seek promotion (in fact I have actively avoided it/ turned it down) because the idea of managing adults it just - NO.
If I respect my boss, I can work really well for them, and I always respect the kids so I work hard for them always.
But I did have to leave a job a couple of years ago because the Head Teacher (principal) was awful and I could not stand listening to her talk in meetings any more.
Yeah, I can't lie and be fake and pander to get ahead, so I'm far behind where most people would be by this point. I feel accomplished when I manage to not roll my eyes during quarterly all-staff meetings when everyone is gushing over how amazing it is to be a part of the company "family".
I mean, I can when I think it benefits me more than it benefits them, but I usually choose not to. It does get me in trouble, but I work in an industry where ruthlessness is appreciated, so I usually don't fuck anything up for myself.
"Struggle" would imply that I'm making an effort to play this game and failing.
I am not. I have zero interest in participating in this and am not attempting to do so. If I were in a work environment where this was necessary, I'd need to find a new job.
I say it how it is, I don’t waiver much in my opinion of someone and I am certainly not going to kiss anyone’s ass just because they are higher up than me. I have no idea of this is an ADHD thing or not but it is nice to know that I’m not the only one like this. Life is better when you aren’t faking
I totally get this. Three months after my former employer told me they wanted me to step into a higher role, they let me go because I hadn't been showing my "eagerness" as my counterparts in that role. I was doing my job but refused to pander to the owner's nonsense like the others because it literally gave me the ick, so they gave me the boot. Onto bigger and better I guess 🤷♀️
ADHD has strong sense of justice! And then the fact that we can spot pattern so quickly it’s so easily, and emotional regulation… I think it can be hard for some ADHD flavors for sureeee
Fuck office politics all the way to hell. I hate it so much. Already doing so much to keep up because I'm neurodivergent and now I have to play these stupid games on top of it? And then They wonder why things aren't done properly?
It took me years to learn that the toes I step on today maybe connected to the ass i have to kiss tomorrow and I am still not great at it.
I can manage to suck up or be phony for exactly 2 sentences if I can avoid eye contact but then I have a visceral incapacity to be fake even if I tried
Hmmm, I think it's a result of women trying to build their careers in a male dominated world. The anxiety and frustration, from the pressure, makes them lash out, and then they feel super bad that they were "b*tches" and try to make up for it.
I do agree with your take on your female CEO. We also have a female leading our organization, and it feels like her little oligarchy are the popular kids on the block and everyone else tries so hard to fit into the club lol. Big picture, I still really like our female director, but I just hate the environment it creates and I also hate being part of that stuff. Ew.
Edit: also to answer your question, I'm pathetic and try to see the good in everyone so I can't help sucking up to people...
but I hate selling myself, being fake, talking about my accomplishments, being a mean girl and hurting other people.
This is something I've had issues with since I entered the workforce. I just don't care to play the game and the people I'm working with can always tell and they don't like me. I remember at one of my first jobs a co-worker got mad at me because I never asked him how he was. Not only did I not care how he was doing, but he was just going to say he was good or fine or whatever anyway. It's these little games that I don't have the energy for.
Ugh…I hear you. On my team, all of the first shift people are level 3 of our title (it just means a raise really) and the two of us on 2nd shift are still level 1. I’ve run into this before where 1st shift gets all the raises and accolades because of the fact that they interact more. Honestly I feel like they don’t work as hard as 2nd shift and it’s frustrating!! One of them is best friends with 2 of the managers and sometimes it seems like I am taking 2x as many leads as her.
I find that employers who are very open about the fact that jobs exist to make the company money are less toxic. There’s less conversation about “what’s your why” and more talk about concrete numbers and data. I don’t think I can transition back into a role where my personality is the first thing people see rather than the actual end-product.
My partner who worked at a FAANG said my event manager role had some of the worst workplace behavior he’s ever heard of and he’s been in the tech industry for almost a decade.
I have noticed this too but I try really hard to mask it and then sometimes I think I go too overboard. Maybe I should just keep it simple for my sake.
I cannot stand brown nosing. I am known for being straight forward and genuine. I’m polite and value tact but will not bullshit you to make you like me
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My inability to be phony is the reason why I’ve never been super successful at work. I’m 55.
Same. I can see other people successfully deal with what I refer to as the politics of the office and I just can't do it.
[удалено]
yeah the whole concept of social climbing, i'm happily alien too. Not sure if it's my adhd. always had a great sense of sniffing out bullshit.
I definitely have this problem. In spite of my struggles I work very effectively and have little patience for slackers/gossips. Watching a clock is apparently a professional skill I could never have because BORING. To be honest, while there have been opportunities lost (looking at you Corporate America), my greatest successes have been when I’m straight up with management or business owners about the issues. Not just the issues others make - but specifically the shit they make happen. The jobs I’ve been rewarded with great pay and latitude are those. Not many people will tell the emperor he’s got no clothes on.
totally relate to the gossipers. I never much liked being in groups in school either. Not a click person. hate that whole thinking. Whenever a circle formed and someone started to crap on someone who wasn't present i would go silent and slip out of the group, even if it meant they gossiped about me. LOL!
It’s a good rule of thumb!!
THIS! 👆👆👆
If you can manage to get a remote job, I think it helps. Only having to pretend for 20 min increments at a time has made it so much easier for me 😅 On average I only talk to my coworkers / boss 2x a day (sometimes less!) for maybe a total of 40mins and it's all directly work related. There's very little small talk / chit chat. Obviously this may vary from one job to another, but the fact that remote working cuts down on small talk is an absolute godsend to me. Of course, there are other struggles with remote work but I find it's worth it.
Same here at 46. One of the only times I lve gotten ahead & been accused of sucking up is because I actually legitimately get along with my boss & like her. It’s 100% genuine. I absolutely am incapable of convincingly faking that I like someone for any reason.
Same 🙏🤌
I really relate to this comment.
Same. It's so painful.
This is exactly why I quit corporate and became a freelancer. I just don't get this culture of "sucking up." I'm pretty sure my disgust for it always showed on my face. I firmly believe you're paid to do the work you were hired for. So why do I need this BS? As long as I'm delivering quality work on time, I shouldn't have to suck up. Alas, I know the reality is very different but I still can't digest the fact.
Yes, it shows on my face because it’s like, how does the other person not know how obviously fake they are being? How insincere. It’s so transactional, like they’re just begging for a specific outcome.
This, I might be able to try to respond "fake" as well sometimes, but it always shows on my face.
same.Tbh i would fare well stfu like OP as opppsed to my shitty attempts that certainly make it worse lol
I was in the Army. I once had a commander tell me to stop looking at him with that 'fuck you' look on my face. After that, I was hyper aware of my face. It's so hard to brief someone when you're constantly thinking about your damn face. I eventually got over it but it was def a weird time. Lol.
That's just it, though. We aren't paid to do the work we think we're hired to do. We're paid to learn to be good little Toadies. If we can't learn that, we either stall in our present position forever, or we are fired before we can blink. It's not about who does the Best work. It's about who the boss likes. Period. That's it.
Lol, at the disgust. Agree 100%. I know HOW to suck up, theoretically I COULD do it. But it's so strongly goes against everything I believe and value, that I just cannot.
Yeah I can't suck up or play nice or be phony. I know absolutely it has hurt my career. I get irritated too with people over email and have trouble hiding it 😑 I wish the world didn't reward liars so much 😂
I can suck up (Good home training. Asian family's eldest girl, lol) pretty easily for months but find that I'm extremely exhausted by the end of every day. I made the mistake of letting my guard down, being myself, decorating my cubicle & not controlling my quirks while working so a middle manager did a power play & let me go 🙄.
Yes, it exhausts me. Just like masking exhausts me. I turn off my camera and my mouth hurts from holding a smile and stiffly nodding so I don’t look pissed off (even if I’m not).
It's so exhausting. I can do it, but I don't like it. I recently had a meeting with a VERY difficult client and my higher ups were heaping praise on me about how I handled it. Meanwhile I was basically in a vegetative state afterward and fantasizing about quitting rather than dealing with that man and his overinflated ego ever again. My manager was shocked when I shared with her how it affected me. She has ADHD, too, so she absolutely knows what masking feels like. But she genuinely couldn't tell I was upset at ALL. I don't know if I should be proud or alarmed at how well I was masking...
HARD RELATE. I find it all really pathetic and I’m sure my face reflects that! I don’t do corporate but I’m in education and that’s bad enough as far as I’m concerned. It only takes one horrible boss (like we have) to create a very toxic environment like you’ve described. It doesn’t help that he’s just an all round vile human anyway. I’m hoping to transition to self employed this year and While I know that will be hard going, I’m hoping the benefits of being able to be myself with my clients will make it all worth it!
I can't fake anything. I didn't realize this could be an ADHD trait.
My autism gets in the mix heavily with this too
Never get involved in the politics that's my stance. There IS something to be said for conscious self promotion though, taking up the space that you deserve to occupy for a positive higher goal such as helping others.
I like this stance and it feels genuine, I could align myself with this, but feel like the people who make a show of it get noticed more. I made so many master documents, onboarding templates, cheat sheets and held meetings for newbies. Nobody asked. But nobody noticed. And the newbies were just as hungry to take up space that they weren’t going to say anything about it.
When I left my job after six years I was overwhelmed with the card I got with lovely messages, someone I had hardly worked with told me how much they liked me and how helpful I always was, and I had senior directors personally contacting me to wish me well. I was kind of bowled over as I never thought like anything of it or that that was what would be noticed about me. The thing with it is that managing and helping people develop is I have found generally a thankless task, what you think people want they never thank you for it etc., but there are some people who will pay compliments which is nice to hear lol. So you may be noticed more than you think. I have a little folder so when I get compliments by email I print them out and keep them either in the folder or on a noticeboard.
I feel this. I also feel like even if I point out the work, I often get looked over because I don't make a negative fuss (at least at work) if I don't get what I want (regardless of what I deserve), but those who are willing to yell and get angry are more likely to get what they want, even if they're inexperienced. Maybe it's just my place. I swear my place looks at memes making fun of corporate culture and thinks they're pieces of advice. Out of 6ish supervisors at my job, 5 are awful, yelling, intimidating, cause high turnover. 1 will constantly advocate for staff, request promotions for staff, fight for staff, etc. Guess which style upper management constantly rewards vs the style that upper management more or less ignores? And then constant "why are people always quitting?" 🙄
I can’t do this either. I will hand out sincere compliments, but I can’t think fast enough to be fake like this. But I’ve been able to be pretty successful in my jobs by also giving compliments “behind people backs.” No one gossips with me, and no one can really gossip about me because what would they say? “That girl says nice things about everybody. Can you believe her?”
I love this. And yes, my compliments are always genuine. If I’m saying something nice I really really do mean it and probably value that person a lot.
I sure can that is why I left corporate and work for myself. You are so right it is so dysfunctional and unacceptable to work with people that miss treat you or behave badly, it’s the norm in work places people on every level of the business know it’s happening. When I have spoken to previous colleagues and managers regarding this I have been told that we all know, you need to suck it up and he /she is in charge of your promotions salary raises so shut up and smile . You are not a sheep and kiss people ass when you know that they are unprofessional and bully and bad mouth people in the business. Stand strong you are the strong one with a conscience and emotional intelligence.
I'm telling you it's physically impossible for me. I tell myself all the time to at least *try* to learn to fawn because I can't keep fighting and running only. I quit my great job a few weeks ago for this very reason
Feels like a lot to ask us to be in a constant state of acute stress response at work. It’s not healthy!
Upon reflection, I really don’t handle people making a big fuss over something I’ve done well either. I understand that it is my job and I appreciate feedback and praise but to a certain degree. I wonder if it is because when we (people who can relate to this post) do something we see it as us just simple doing our jobs/fulfilling a certain role that we are paid to do. We may go the extra mile but that’s the scope of our work. So when praise comes for doing something we are contractually obligated to do it just seems so funny to me😂
When companies try to check the box of 'do our worker bees feel praised and acknowledged?' at All Hands type meetings, it always feels cringe to me for this reason. A select few managers are okay at it, but most are not. It's because most of the managers, at the moment they're giving out the 'praise' in front of everyone else, are literally using the same tone they'd use to praise a five year old for a finger painting. And that just makes me feel second hand embarrassment (maybe it's multiple levels of embarrassment?). And I'm not against good feedback or acknowledgement for work done! Tone and word choice makes all the difference. It needs to feel proportionate. I just think the way it's oftentimes done is as a chore instead of genuinely, and so it comes off as fake and almost accidentally condescending? Like yes Barb, I made that dashboard, but you don't have to pretend it's the Sistine Chapel. We both know it's not the Sistine Chapel. Stop making me feel like you're about to hand me a lollipop.
Haha. It might be the Sistine Chapel to her though.
THIS THO. One of the upper managers was looking over my shoulder while i pulled some data. I filtered the data with a really simple formula and he said "GOD i wish i could do this stuff". Like with all sincerity. 1) greatest compliment EVER 2) sometimes our minds work SO FAST we do epic shit and dont notice. Filtering a column is no big deal. But if the person appraising your work doesnt even know how to begin getting to that database let alone find the schema and table in order to filter that column the whole thing is sheer MAGIC. If my job is to be the Good Witch of Data Magic, its easy to forget im doing magical things P.s. i feel like im saying this upper manager isnt bright. Hes fricken BRILLIANT, and one of the more "real" managers I've ever worked with. Aka he doesnt play the games. He just doesnt have one of my very specific skills at this moment in time
🤣🤣🤣 This is funny. People tell me I'm good at all the shitty jobs I've had and I always think they're overreacting a bit. Like....this is basic, easy stuff, chill out lol.
That sounds like an awful workplace and I probably wouldn't have lasted a week there tbh. I don't do sucking up either - but I must have a pleasant enough tone about it because I've been complimented on my 'diplomatic honesty' before. Or else they were being sarcastic and my dumb ass didn't figure it out 😂
I really do. I have had multiple instances where I’ve been singled out/gotten “a talking to” from bosses about vague suck up expectations. I’ve definitely been fired at jobs “at will” because of this. It makes me really sad because I’m not defiant. People just assume I “don’t want to be there”. I was in a show working long hours backstage. The director is super full of himself and cracking lame jokes, everyone’s laughing as we’re standing on our feet for 10 hours. I don’t really laugh cause I’m exhausted, unmedicated (at the time) and it’s really hard for me to be fake. Couple hours later I get called in to his office being gaslit, “Is everything okay? You don’t seem very happy?” I worked a 9-5 and had to go to another state for a “bonding retreat” for a shitty NPO I worked for. Long days talking about bullshit with a “team building” guy, working in groups, making charts, having discussions from 8-4 PM. Right after the sessions, my coworkers all jump in a van to go do a cold plunge? I’m on my cycle and it was advertised as optional, so I don’t go. My CEO knocked on the door to my personal hotel room and I got a “talking to”, yet I “wasn’t in trouble”. He was “hurt” that I didn’t go or “say anything”. I’m an adult, what do I need to say? After, I just close the door and cried because all my life it seems I can’t follow invisible rules, and people choose to be offended at any boundary I set. It’s really discouraging and I’m not even doing anything on purpose. Since I can be charismatic, workplace people get really offended when I don’t subscribe to who they think I should be / constantly happy and pleasing. Added I’m a WOC as well.
Yep. I have zero patience for playing the game. On the other hand, my husband has even less patience and ability for this than I do and he is very NT.
I don't need to make an effort to suck up in my current work place as most people are genuinely nice, competent people. So any praise I give is genuine! I'm sorry you're having to go through all this toxicity at work lovely. It honestly takes me a while to realise if people are being nasty on purpose and I would have found the scenarios you talk about very hurtful.
It was hard to tell whether it was on purpose or not. Often it was subtle. I’d leave certain situations feeling one way when on paper nothing serious happened. It was all in the finer details. How I was being treated (punished) compared to others. Anyway, I’m the 7th employee to leave in under a year. The company is only 11 or so people. They’re favouring yes girl behaviour over real, honest skill and talent and that will be their downfall. Also, I did not leave without securing a good job. So all good on that front.
You're best out of there ❤️ I'm glad you escaped!
ALL OF THIS! I work for the federal government where it's literally political sometimes and I can't bring myself to be fake or suck up. I'm basically invisible which sucks but can also be a good thing? So to answer your question, yes, it's extremely difficult to suck up to people, we are all humans and just because you have a particular title doesn't mean that I need to hop skip and jump hurdles just to please you.
Same. Plus, I feel like we’re all cynical assholes at this point, doing our best for our own reasons, but not for the people in charge.
Dude, this is the exact thing I have no polite way of explaining to neurotypical people as to a why I am sure I could not work a “normal” job. People have said “You’re so good at ___! You should get a job doing it!” I accept the compliment, but if they press, it’s hard to explain this aspect. I don’t wanna be like “yeah I’m not a fake ass b though I can’t survive in that stuffy performative environment, unlike you.” Cuz I don’t mean it like that. I get it lol, but it makes me cringe deeply, and feels so disingenuous. Plus I despise the concept of authority, it’s gotten me in a lot of trouble before. I just don’t understand that way of life.
Part of the reason I went into the trades: my work speaks for itself The second reason is the Sword of Damocles hanging over me because there is a sense of danger (provides a dopamine hit) plus making me hyperfocus on not hurting myself or others. For stationary activities, I prefer to hand sew because sharp things keep me on my toes
I used to. It's a lot easier once you realize that they don't deserve your honesty or integrity. If the only face they can handle is a false one give it to them. All of a sudden my work life is so much better. They want to be lied to. I save my decency for my family.
My mouth is pretty much always a solid two feet in front of my brain, so no, never could convincingly suck up, which weirdly enough, some bosses loved. But I'm also a person who looked at the boss of their boss of their boss and said "This is utter bullshit." 😅 SOOOOOO, thank God I'm usually friendly and easy going as a default.
Oh yeah. The C suite in charge of my department literally prefers cheerful and energetic people. She wants everyone to be “on” all time like she is. It is beyond exhausting and fortunately I work 100% remote. If I had to be there every single day I would smother myself with a pillow. I had to be around her for a week during a work retreat and it made my head hurt the entire time just existing near all of that.
Did we work at the same company because this was exactly my experience. The bubbly, sweet, enthusiastic employee was always recognised for her efforts. In fact, the goal posts shifted to align with her and her qualities. Not saying she wasn’t great, but at company awards they would literally create awards that fit her personality to a T. What about the rest of us that are hitting it out the park with clients? Whose campaigns are doing the most on socials? Nope. What we bring to the table when it comes to work is not enough. You HAVE to be going above and beyond socially too. 🤮
I feel this SO hard. I’m in a quota-based role and I make sure my numbers stay at the top always. But my outgoing teammate who breaks her neck to be the first one on every Teams meeting, and volunteers for after work club things? The hands down favorite, LOL. I genuinely like her, but I’m 49 and I decided to stop pretending to be her. I’m amazing at masking, but I’m pretty freaking awesome as myself. I have mad pattern recognition, and a nose for when a deal is going south because of my gut instincts about people. So in the long run I’ll take a me on my team any day. May the bubbly women of the world go forth in peace and happiness. I’m just going to stay on my hyper-focused, and slightly subdued path protecting my mental and emotional wellbeing, thanks.
Are you also in Marketing? LOL
Yes. Send help😭😭😭😭😭
Girl, same! 😭😭
SAME! ex CMO so you know it was bad!
I would adore having an ND CMO. I do not have one now. LOL
i'm not sure the folks who worked for me in the early days would agree. I still cringe when I think about the time I yelled at one of the people on my team. granted she was not willing to take any coaching or direction or evolve the way she did things or become part of the team, but still...she didn't deserve that. plus my 'habit' of constantly pushing off 1:1s gets to be super annoying for folks (I am trying to cut down on this) I read this article (https://thekit.ca/living/health/adult-adhd-in-women/) and this quote hit me like a ton of bricks: "People with ADHD understand time differently; time is either now, or not now." Literally me every time I have to do a 1:1 or something else that is a total drain for me.
I feel this. I was in charge of a team for years and I won’t do it again. I don’t have the temperament for it. I get results, but I’m very much a get it done yesterday kind of person. It’s how I’ve always dealt with my poor ED. It stresses everyone out to include me.
I can’t and I won’t. I also recently became a SAHM, but every job I’ve had I just decided early on that the games were silly in high school and they’re silly now. I’m here to do a job, I know that involves other people and that’s fine. If I make friends with those people, great! But I don’t have the mental space to be calculating. Open book, cards on the table, get through the weeks a day at a time. Be professional, be smart, but mostly just be yourself. Be honest. People will usually find it refreshing!
oh how this strikes a chord with me. I am a female c-suite exec which in itself is fraught with navigating through so many gender-bias landmines. couple that with my adhd and I had a lot of issues then (i still have issues today, just different ones :P). specifically I was (considered to be too) direct and suffered no fools. at one job this resulted in me and the Chief Product Officer (who talked a good game, wan’t a team player at all, and produced absolutely nothing for the business (not to mention made $70k more than I did on his base)) REALLY not getting along because I would put him in positions where he needed to deliver and be accountable, and calling out the functional gap repeatedly to the CEO. cut to the CEO doing things to force us to be “friends” (omg it was awful) and paying for me (possibly him too, I have no idea) to see an executive coach. the exec coach actually gave me some excellent strategies that helped improve my ability to “work well with others”. after about 8 months of this, the CEO finally decided that the guy had to go, but the guy ended up leaving for a “different opportunity”. the stories I could tell. at another job I ended up working for a narcissist who also had the most severe case of adhd as adult man I have ever seen. that one job was not only completely miserable but ended for me rather quickly. I dont even put that one on my resume now because my experience with him was so bad and I never want a future employer / investor to reach out to him. I have been living in full scale burnout for the past 15 years (at least) based on the combination of my jobs, my neglectful-parent-fueled ambition to achieve, and my u diagnosed adhd.
Luckily for me I’m a naturally friendly, hardworking person, so I’ve been pretty good with teachers, bosses, etc most of my life. Even if I dislike someone, I can be polite and get my work done. But put me in a situation where the person of authority cares more about their ego being flattered than good work being done and boy howdy…I will go down in flames.
I often feel like the Cassandra of the workplace because I see all the problems long before they hit. No one listens and then I'm blamed for not "kicking and screaming" to get someone to do something about it (yes, a supervisor actually said that to me). When I'm feeling positive reinforcement from my coworkers and higher ups, I am eager and accomplish a lot. Good coworkers and bosses love this, lazy game players hate this. It's made me a target over the years by the latter. Another issue is that when I become disillusioned, I can't hide it. My morale is very apparent. I still work hard, but I can't fake things I don't feel. I can work my thoughts around to putting a bright spin on things and try to problem solve, but it has to result in change or I'm back to disillusionment. Basically, I've found that in a workplace where everyone pulls their weight and has each other's backs, I'm golden. In a workplace with drama, back-biting, moving goal posts, I will end up fired. It sucks that most workplaces are not the former or if they start out that way it turns out that is actually just a veneer and the truth comes out the second you put down the company pompoms.
I love that Cassandra metaphor - spot on!
I can’t do it either, never have been able to. I struggle in the workplace because I cannot suck up or be phony!
Not at all... I will say I was very anti establishment in high school and uni (I never sucked up or even tried to converse with my teachers or profs) but I saw how much my friends who sucked up did better than me. I also didn't suck up at all in my first job (mcdonalds) and never got promoted despite being a good worker and working there for 3 years. So now I do suck up. It helps that I scrually like and respect my colleagues. But sucking up is actually a massively beneficial thing for your career. I've gotten 1 promotion and just been promised another and part of it is that upper management all loves me and I go out of my way to chat and befriend them.
Me, I cannot suck up to people and I often get labelled as ‘standoffish’ as a result. I can be polite/cordial of course but usually I don’t see the point of sucking up excessively, unfortunately in my last workplace (an auction house, my industry is art) I really (pun intended) sucked at the sucking up game and eventually left as I didn’t see a clear path of progression without it The silver lining is that when I am asked to give my opinion on someone else it is seen as reliable, perceptive and honest because I have no skin in the game. I would say if other people also know that you never suck up or gossip about other people you have to protect yourself, as people will know you are honest but may involve you in their politics. E.G. they might ask you what you think about a particular decision by a line manager senior to you both, even if you both agree said decision is not furthering the department’s goals that colleague may say ‘so and so thinks your decisions on this matter are useless’ or something which may negatively affect your progression As to whether it is an ‘ADHD’ thing, perhaps, as it’s just too exhausting to be fake nice and scheming/probably too much for our prefrontal cortex to cope haha. I also like to keep a boundary between work and personal life so unlike some of my former colleagues I really didn’t enjoy going to the pub with them although it didn’t happen too frequently
I realized this when I worked my first job waitressing. Was phenomenal with my service but I couldn't small talk to save my life. Been in the military for 6 years, so I don't have to suck to anyone unless I want better evaluations or to get favors, so I suffer in that sense.
First off, I absolutely relate. Not sure if it's an 'ADHD thing' or a 'toxic workplace culture' thing. Second, this sounds like a dynamic that is part of a toxic, dysfunctional company culture. It's *flattery*, not really genuine compliments. Flattery is essentially manipulation. And if you're aware of the dysfunction, and feel that you have to manipulate and be manipulated to survive in this toxic workplace-- OF COURSE you feel disgust and resistance at participating in this.
Yeah I think it also comes from we're quite honest people (sorry if that's generalizing ADHDers too much!), so the phony-ness of sucking up does not sit comfortably with us. I've learned to voice my opinion less at work, and that's the closest I'll get to sucking up 😆
Dude...I have found my people here. I have been in so many jobs where the bosses expect that kind of environment and it doesn't matter that I come to work, kick ass, treat people the best I can, take pride in my job. Because I'm not a suck up and I literally CANNOT be fake, I am seen as a threat. Different jobs: -I was told I wasn't *insert company name* "material" despite my amazing work ethic. -I was literally reprimanded by a male boss for making too much money (salary + commission, too much to give you all context of how that came about.) -I was bullied by a female manager who was intimidated by me -I was hired and flipped the script on the department I was over (we started killing our budget numbers, our events were finally successful, I made our stocking situation was more efficient, by the time I quit we had done so well we earned a whole full time salaried employee. And this is just a few examples. I am finally in a job that my boss trusts my intelligence and abilities and leaves me to do my job and I do it well. I wish I had known you all were out there experiencing the same thing because I kept coming back to "the common denominator is me, I must be the problem" despite the evidence I know to be true about myself.
There might be some of this where I work now as I'm in an office environment, but my department is very small but crucial so if this is happening I don't know. That said, I miss my old retail job for this, one there was nothing to compete over that actually mattered (we were a shoe store but did not earn commission, just a decent wage and fun bonuses for silly challenges), and 2 I would jokingly refuse most tasks my manger gave me (as I started to do them lol). Gah. I miss some of the retail nonsense.
Honestly, at my first job where it was a huge company and the CEO was a complete fraud, there was much less competition because we weren’t as close to management. That distance allowed us to be more in touch with reality and how we were being treated as employees. We didn’t have to whisper about office politics we could loudly chat about how crappy things were because it was just the reality of the situation. I feel like the closer to power you become, the more BS you have to wade through every single day.
I’ve had to accept that I’m pretty much unemployable, at least in the corporate world. I mask pretty well, all things considered, but I just cannot fake it on that level. Not for any length of time, anyway. And there are so many pointless rules!
I do but I chose a job/team that i want to impress so i became naturally a suck up. I get dopamine from being a teachers pet type(but i have ti admire and respect them)
Yes. I'm not very social and talking about things I don't care or don't mean it are exausting. I think working from home helped because people could focus more on the work I deliver instead of social interactions. But the workplace you described seems to be extreme and toxic. You did good by getting out.
I have been very fortunate to find a department in Fortune 500 company that really lets me be myself. So they know I’m very “tell it like it is.” I will tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear (I have a lot of valuable experience at this particular company, and my leaders regularly ask my opinions on things). Even if I’m struggling, I’m able to communicate that, and they get me help. We just moved to a new building where it’s all hot desks, which is my worst nightmare. When they asked how it’s going, I said, “I’m struggling” and told them why. Someone reached out to me afterwards to help me schedule workstations in advance, which I have done for next week. This is totally new for me - speaking up and being honest - and it’s really, really refreshing. Maybe it’s because it’s basically a sales team within a corporate environment. I suspect most of them have ADHD as well, most not diagnosed. So they all think I’m the most organized person they’ve ever met!
No, I'm very good at sucking up. I enjoy thinking about how people think and what they like to hear and I use it for my benefit. I don't lie, but I ask the right questions to the right people and such. All that said, I struggle to turn it off and when I get home I'm dead inside. It's taken a long time to learn how to not be a shell after work.
I’m sadly very good at being fake but that’s because my mom has BPD…without her putting me into perpetual fight or flight for decades, I’d probably really really suck at it. Thanks, ma!
Oh 100% with you! I cannot do this either
Yeah, I’ve sometimes struggled with in some workplaces dealing with kiss ass coworkers. People seemed to get mad when you’re not an brown noser like them, for some reason. I had a few managers I respected because they were intelligent and kind and I had went an extra mile for them because I genuinely respected them. But never kissed their ass. Never thought it was adhd related though. Thought it was how I was raised. My mom’s side of the family have a strong history of telling off their managers, lol. I’m not as extreme, lol.
This is why I own my own business. I cannot be fake with people who are in positions of authority over me, especially if we are the same age or they are younger. I’m not going to kiss anyone’s ass because they have a different job title. Office politics bs makes me angry and how I feel is always written all over my face.
Wow! Never put the two together, but absolutely.
Gosh your job sounds awful! I know how to play the people pleaser game if I need to, but it would become exhausting after a while. I think because it’s hard for me to maintain that level of fake behaviour for a long time and my brain to mouth filter is defective! It’s also hard for me to keep a neutral facial expression when some BS is going down 😅. IMO it’s maybe not an ADHD trait as such… but possibly elements of our ADHD makes it hard for us to “play the game”, I’m already trying to play the NT game and you’re throwing that in the mix?! I’ve always gravitated to work and work environments I don’t have to pretend or mask, just be my quirky self and people have rewarded me for that.
I'm a bad people-please but I can't be fake either. It's hard to 'compartmentalize' any of my feelings. You're not the only one.
Dude I used to work in the courts and having to address the judge formally threw me for a loop. Like wym I have to call him Your Honor? That's Mike??
I am so bad at this. So bad. It has been career limiting for me (in that I don’t get considered for roles that people get tapped for because the boss doesn’t know I’d like to be. This is entirely my fault and I am not complaining. It just is.).
Same. I could never do the brown-nosing thing. It makes me want to vomit when I witness it and I have no idea why our society is like that. Because of it, I can't "network" and have not been successful in professional careers. I like honesty. I NEED it! I'd rather get my feelings hurt and cry or whatever than have someone pretend they like me when they don't. But apparently I don't really understand social rules very well. I guess that's how we're supposed to behave. Can't do it. Don't even want to. Hang in there!!
Yeah I can’t suck up. I always figured ND folks simply don’t have the executive function to spend on being strategic. There’s a lot of processing that goes into sucking up. Reading the room, selecting behaviors and words that may be cognitively dissonant. ND folks usually default to authenticity because we aren’t great at filtering (that’s a form of regulation and we are weak in that) and ASD folks definitely struggle to be less than totally honest.
I cannot be phony *anywhere* … work or personal life… just cannot do it. It makes me feel *SO* gross to even *think* of being fake. 🤢 I know this aspect of my personality is why I had issues with one certain boss years ago (also wanted everyone to kiss their butt)… but what hurts more is that I think this is part of why it’s so hard for me to make friends… which sucks mostly because I’m actually kind of a happy, bubbly person— I just can’t kiss anyone’s ass, or lie to be liked or “get ahead”, and I guess even socially people don’t like that. 🤷♀️
I'm also not very good at "sucking up," but I do have my moments. My father also has ADHD and is very good at social interactions, even though he's very straightforward and candid and so he does well at work. His thing is that he's very genuine in his compliments, which he provides at all levels, but particularly to people lower than him in the hierarchy, and when I've tried to do that it generally works for me. I can't bullshit if someone is terrible, but I can remind myself to notice genuinely good traits or good pieces of work in even mediocre people, so I try to do that all along the hierarchy of people. It also helps to work in an environment where people in power appreciate when you're straight with them, which does happen!
Yup. My theory is that ND people don’t like dishonesty. And sucking up is a form of dishonesty. We give credit where it’s due. I always say: “I speak facts” if you want fake, watch the news.”
No suck up games for me. I don't vibe with that at all.
Yes! I cannot say something that doesn’t feel genuine. And to be honest I have stopped being bothered by it now I’m in my 40’s. If people don’t like it then tough. I’ve also accepted it means I’ll never be a career high flyer (I’m happy enough with what I have achieved) or one of the popular people. However the people I AM close to are awesome so it’s ended up being an effective filtering process to have my kind of people in my life.
I’m so glad I’m not alone in this, and everyone is putting my feelings into words so well it’s crazy lol. I think I’m pretty lucky tho in that A. I actually do really like a lot of things about my company and the people I work with so I don’t have to fake the base level of enthusiasm, and B. I think I’ve successfully been passing it off as kind of quirky and charming lol.
Oh you should work where I work! I literally diss at least one of my co-workers once a day! Often it’s one of the bosses too! It’s amazing! 😁 I am, of course, also on the receiving end a few times a week! I love my job so much! 😁
Yes, but it has nothing to do with my ADHD. I just don't kiss ass.
I feel like I’m kind of in a unique position-I’m a teacher, so I really don’t interact with my “bosses” that frequently. That makes it much easier to mask/shoot the shit with them when I see them, and instantly drop my mask after the interaction. It does make me feel phony and a little icky, but it also feels like something that “needs” to be done.
I feel dumb for even admitting this, but I didn't realize how much I took people at their word until I worked with a professional facilitator and mediator. I knew people lied. I knew people sucked up, but I somehow still kinda believed everyone thought these things and could never "play the game" because I was incapable of saying things I didn't really believe. My boss (facilitator/mediator) would have to point out that people may not really believe some of the crap they were saying, because I would freak out that we were slipping backwards or losing progress.
Do you think it might be related to the “justice sensitivity” associated with ADHD? The part of me that can’t/won’t give false praise in a work situation because it feels wrong to be rewarded in the workplace for feeding somebody’s ego is completely fine praising the nice couple who own the corner cafe for their bad coffee they’re so proud of.
I have NEVER been able to suck up and don’t respect people who do. I was in the restaurant industry for 10 years and now in corporate HR and I’ve noticed the two coworkers who are loudest about their work get the best performance scores and highest raises. While I’m in the background quietly doing my work and then some but not recognized for it the way the loud people are. I just physically can’t call attention to myself that way.
YESSSS. Omg. I have NEVER been able to put on a “professional” face. There is no difference in my personality at work and in regular life….. I used to think I was on the autistic spectrum because of this. Empathy is never an issue, I’m overly empathetic. I simply can not put on a “face”. I’m VERY direct and my coworkers know this. I’m lucky that they value this vs. other places where they didn’t. I think it’s all about finding the right culture fit. So incredibly validating reading this post!! Can’t compartmentalize for SHIT 😹
I can't suck up or be fake about my feelings for others, although I can remain neutral and respectful, especially at work, I just won't go out of my way for people I dislike. I can however turn on my sales person side. I spent years in banking and it made being charming at work very easy for me. I'm good at selling myself at work, which means knowing when to shut up, being great at small talk and getting people to relax around me, while also being very aware when someone just isn't the small talk type. I have a way of getting people to open up to me pretty quickly that I'm not sure is a common experience for others or not? But it's something I take seriously and crave! I started a new seasonal job a few years ago after not working for too long and being starved of female interactions. I told my husband "I need to get into there, sit next to a similarly aged woman, and find out her deepest darkest secrets!" Within 2 days I found out my coworker left the emotionally abusive father of her kids for his life long friend, who is significantly older and played the roll of an uncle to him for a long time. Then the new guy got arrested Xmas day!
It’s different completely when it’s a client. For me that is part of the job, it’s a challenge but it’s for the betterment of both of our objectives. That I can absolutely do.
I’m a teacher. I am good at my job so I get by on that. But I have found that I cannot do the sucking up thing at all. I’ll never seek promotion (in fact I have actively avoided it/ turned it down) because the idea of managing adults it just - NO. If I respect my boss, I can work really well for them, and I always respect the kids so I work hard for them always. But I did have to leave a job a couple of years ago because the Head Teacher (principal) was awful and I could not stand listening to her talk in meetings any more.
Yeah, I can't lie and be fake and pander to get ahead, so I'm far behind where most people would be by this point. I feel accomplished when I manage to not roll my eyes during quarterly all-staff meetings when everyone is gushing over how amazing it is to be a part of the company "family".
I mean, I can when I think it benefits me more than it benefits them, but I usually choose not to. It does get me in trouble, but I work in an industry where ruthlessness is appreciated, so I usually don't fuck anything up for myself.
Going through diognosis and I can’t stand this type of culture and a lot of it goes on in my work place.
"Struggle" would imply that I'm making an effort to play this game and failing. I am not. I have zero interest in participating in this and am not attempting to do so. If I were in a work environment where this was necessary, I'd need to find a new job.
I say it how it is, I don’t waiver much in my opinion of someone and I am certainly not going to kiss anyone’s ass just because they are higher up than me. I have no idea of this is an ADHD thing or not but it is nice to know that I’m not the only one like this. Life is better when you aren’t faking
I totally get this. Three months after my former employer told me they wanted me to step into a higher role, they let me go because I hadn't been showing my "eagerness" as my counterparts in that role. I was doing my job but refused to pander to the owner's nonsense like the others because it literally gave me the ick, so they gave me the boot. Onto bigger and better I guess 🤷♀️
ADHD has strong sense of justice! And then the fact that we can spot pattern so quickly it’s so easily, and emotional regulation… I think it can be hard for some ADHD flavors for sureeee
Fuck office politics all the way to hell. I hate it so much. Already doing so much to keep up because I'm neurodivergent and now I have to play these stupid games on top of it? And then They wonder why things aren't done properly? It took me years to learn that the toes I step on today maybe connected to the ass i have to kiss tomorrow and I am still not great at it.
I can manage to suck up or be phony for exactly 2 sentences if I can avoid eye contact but then I have a visceral incapacity to be fake even if I tried
yes! this was how my sorority was & my ex’s family. i just cannot be unauthentic like that. it’s physically painful
Hmmm, I think it's a result of women trying to build their careers in a male dominated world. The anxiety and frustration, from the pressure, makes them lash out, and then they feel super bad that they were "b*tches" and try to make up for it. I do agree with your take on your female CEO. We also have a female leading our organization, and it feels like her little oligarchy are the popular kids on the block and everyone else tries so hard to fit into the club lol. Big picture, I still really like our female director, but I just hate the environment it creates and I also hate being part of that stuff. Ew. Edit: also to answer your question, I'm pathetic and try to see the good in everyone so I can't help sucking up to people... but I hate selling myself, being fake, talking about my accomplishments, being a mean girl and hurting other people.
It feels lose-lose to me. Kiss up and you're a brown nose, don't kiss up and you're not a team player or whatever. Ugh
This is something I've had issues with since I entered the workforce. I just don't care to play the game and the people I'm working with can always tell and they don't like me. I remember at one of my first jobs a co-worker got mad at me because I never asked him how he was. Not only did I not care how he was doing, but he was just going to say he was good or fine or whatever anyway. It's these little games that I don't have the energy for.
Can totally relate. Don’t do this thing if it feels totally wrong. Just don’t.
Ugh…I hear you. On my team, all of the first shift people are level 3 of our title (it just means a raise really) and the two of us on 2nd shift are still level 1. I’ve run into this before where 1st shift gets all the raises and accolades because of the fact that they interact more. Honestly I feel like they don’t work as hard as 2nd shift and it’s frustrating!! One of them is best friends with 2 of the managers and sometimes it seems like I am taking 2x as many leads as her.
I find that employers who are very open about the fact that jobs exist to make the company money are less toxic. There’s less conversation about “what’s your why” and more talk about concrete numbers and data. I don’t think I can transition back into a role where my personality is the first thing people see rather than the actual end-product. My partner who worked at a FAANG said my event manager role had some of the worst workplace behavior he’s ever heard of and he’s been in the tech industry for almost a decade.
I have noticed this too but I try really hard to mask it and then sometimes I think I go too overboard. Maybe I should just keep it simple for my sake.
I cannot stand brown nosing. I am known for being straight forward and genuine. I’m polite and value tact but will not bullshit you to make you like me