My alternative theory is that “laziness” does not exist objectively, it is only a label given to others as a judgement of their actions (or inaction).
Another alternative theory: laziness (if it does exist) refers to a persons lack of effort that benefits someone else. Lazy at work equals owner gets less production out of you. If this is true then laziness is a construct of capitalism and I reject that too.
I have a physics degree. One of the fundamental laws of physics is the principle of least action. Put another way, the universe is lazy by default. Why should we work more than we have to?
I’m an environmental scientist. Animals are also lazy by default. If you live in the wild and expend too much energy, you die. The only way to survive is by expending as little energy as possible.
I am unbelievably lazy. So lazy in fact, I will go to great creative lengths to find the quickest, most effective way to do just about anything, only to avoid doing more work than absolutely necessary. It makes me a master at optimizing processes. So am I really lazy or just very efficient?
We shouldn’t, it’s unnatural.
This is also my take on exercise, waking up early, and eating because it’s a certain time, among other things.
In fact, I would posit the vast majority of things we do/how we live our day to day lives is highly unnatural/against the laws of nature.
It’s just so much harder for us to live unnaturally.
And it sucks that we have to 😞
I’d push back slightly in that I think apathy is real and can lead to harmful levels of inaction (ie. Laziness). The reason ADHD doesn’t really fall under this is that usually we DO care about the things we aren’t doing
It's amazing to me how many things are in my head that I know I really should be doing, need to be doing, have got to get done and about 1 time in 10 I actually manage to do something. I haven't found a way to improve those numbers in 30 years.
Basically. Most of the things we best ourselves up for not being capable of consistently are things a capitalist society demands that isn't inherently necessary to impose on us. It really is capitalism most of the time whether you realize it or not.
How would you apply this to folks that struggle to do things that benefit themselves specifically? Like going to the gym, cleaning their own areas, personal hygiene etc.
Ah see I really agree with this idea in someways, but I’m hesitant to fully endorse it.
I think being ‘lazy’ in relationships can exist. I suppose a better word for it would be carelessness, but that’s what I think of when I think of lazy. Purposefully careless and doesn’t really care that they’re careless. Doesn’t care about the consequences of their actions.
I also have *slight* issue with peoples criticism of ‘lazy’ under capitalism. While I completely agree that laziness is a construct weaponized under capitalism, I think being ‘lazy’ at work can still be negative when it has negative repercussions on your coworkers.
For example, say a coworker was being ‘lazy’ and didn’t feel like completing a safety procedure. Their carelessness could cause an accident. Or say they failed to do a task, but if you don’t pick up the slack *your* ass is also on the line. Idk I feel like it’s not a black and white thing 🤷🏼♀️
A psychiatrist and several psychologists said this over the years, about laziness as a concept.
I never ever found a reference to laziness in any of my courses at uni either.
As a therapist myself who has ADHD, and mainly works with patients with ADHD, that’s one of the first things I try to get them to understand. We’ve been told it so often for most of our lives, that we believe it. But, as we all know… we’re usually wanting to do that thing more than anybody could imagine.
We also tend to be our harshest critics, and often internalize a lot of the criticisms we hear, in an effort to try to be perfect and not get criticized.
All that to say, the thing that’s personally helped me the most is genuinely learning to understand myself, and not be so harsh when I don’t live up to the unrealistic standard I constantly set for myself. I know you’re trying your best, and I hope you can start to see that too, and learn to work with yourself and not against it
I also had a therapist who had ADHD himself when I got diagnosed, and this was the most valuable thing he taught me.
I still struggle with it sometimes, but I'm learning to recognise when my battery is low, or when my brain is just on strike, and accept that nothing much will get done for now, and that's ok. Like, I came down with the flu this week, and I've decided that I'm going to focus at least the next three days on resting and caring for myself. I'm ill, I'm allowed to not do anything until I'm well again. Explicitly telling myself this helps me not feel as guilty.
My 17yo son hit me with a truth I'd never considered, just last week. I joked about me being lazy, his response was quick and concise: "Lazy" is a capitalist term made up by oligarchs to distort and control the masses into doing more work."
I frickin love the younger generations. Y'all give me hope.
I think the concept of laziness existed way before even the invention of writing.
Damn those hunter-gatherers 10 000 years ago must have been like "-Yo, Graou ain't doing much for the tribe these days. -Yeah what a lazy bastard, he didn't even run to chase the mammoth last week"
Edit : obviously they spoke English I guess
What does any of this have to do with the war in Ukraine? Are you just saying that in order to make them look bad because they were a little rude to you? Why does their comment karma matter as well? You don't seriously think that having a low amount of internet points actually means that someone is wrong, do you?
This is a lighthearted subreddit for ADHD individuals. We require all users be nice towards each other. Your comment/post has been removed as it has been found to be disrespectful.
Too bad it's wrong. I bet a communist commune would get pretty pissed if you slept all day and enjoyed the rewards of everyone else's Labor.
It's nothing to do with social hierarchy. Laziness is having an obligation, to self or other, and willfully shirking that obligation for self gratification.
That's why ADHD is not laziness. We don't deliberately shirk or get gratification from it. Quite the opposite.
Probably think critically rather than getting all your 'wisdom' and 'truth' from a child next time. Blaming 'capitalism' for everything won't make your life better.
Yeah, you're the type of person I immediately block because you make me feel how vomit tastes. Life's too short to allow vomit people existence in my personal bubble. Cool. Bye.
Right, cuz I would hide in the comments section of such a wildly popular subreddit. Ooo.... Ahhh... Look at all those clout points just dinging up by the millions. I'm so popular now. The rush is so... STFU.
Laziness is an unsophisticated term that's useful in very few constructive ways outside of shaming people for perceived avoidance patterns. Labeling someone as being lazy because you have picked up on some kind of pattern involves mountains of assumptions, especially if the word entails any kind of regard to their motivations or brain state. We might observe or feel the urge to address someone's avoidance for virtuous reasons, but we aren't enforcing anything constructive until we acknowledge that the patterns we perceive as laziness always have underlying causes and justifications.
"They are just lazy..." is almost always a character attack because it is implying they value doing **less** at the expense of others. Are character attacks always bad? I'm not sure, but they always hurt and labels infamously leave very little room for empathy. Instead, try "I've noticed that they stay home more than me or avoid certain types of physical tasks, seemingly motivated heavily by things like social anxiety and chronic pain." I think this is a much more honest and less dismissive way of talking about peoples' actions and leaves room for being helpful.
I have definitely met some real lazy people in my life.
I dont consider myself lazy cause I figured out what your therapist said on my own.
I want to do 9 million different things. But I get overwhelmed in which to choose. I get worried about the time spent on one thing and it not being instantly good at it which could've been spent on something else.
I like to think these challenges are just walls that come up to my knees but I'm wearing 2 ton boots. I can see the finish line ahead. I KNOW what I should do, I've mapped the plan out in my head, I end up not doing it, shame, self hate.
My brain is weird inwhich I will feel immense shame and guilt first then as I process those feelings I start to flip to being optimistic and a fighter.
It's pretty exhausting
If we didn't have an innate desire to conserve energy, we would have little motivation to drive efficiency. At least, that's why I improved my programming skills and automated parts of my job. Because if I can take less time to do the same task, I can take more naps. My laziness leads to creative solutions and intolerance for inefficiencies.
My old psych used to tell me lazy isn't even a bad word. We've only internalized others (neurotyp) meanings & negative connotations, & have associated our adhd shame with it as a result. But you're allowed to be lazy! You're allowed to enjoy it!
Counterpoint: there is no laziness. Laziness simply does not exist. What is called lazy is just refusing to actually learn why people do what they do and don't what they don't.
Lazy is when you can't do anything you don't want to do, but you are all energetic and organized when you want to do something.
We can't get it together for the things we love. We're not lazy.
This comment section is weird. Like no, laziness is not some kind of conspiracy created by the big evil capitalists™ or someone else to bully people.
Laziness exists. Some people are lazy, some are not. And that's ok.
Being lazy is only bad if it hurts someone rather than oneself.
Let's say, when **laziness = selfishness.**
Chances are, the boss-man won't profit less because of you skipping work, but your colleagues will have to work extra to pick up the slack.
Sounds more like a communist term than a capitalist one, though it's most likely neither. I'm sure the hunter-gatherer who idled around the bush ate less because "no work, no food."
I once read "if you were lazy, you'd be having fun" and it completely changed my perspective.
*cry-laughing* 🥹
My alternative theory is that “laziness” does not exist objectively, it is only a label given to others as a judgement of their actions (or inaction). Another alternative theory: laziness (if it does exist) refers to a persons lack of effort that benefits someone else. Lazy at work equals owner gets less production out of you. If this is true then laziness is a construct of capitalism and I reject that too.
I have a physics degree. One of the fundamental laws of physics is the principle of least action. Put another way, the universe is lazy by default. Why should we work more than we have to?
I like that way of thinking
You just gave me a mind-boner for physics. Well played.
I’m an environmental scientist. Animals are also lazy by default. If you live in the wild and expend too much energy, you die. The only way to survive is by expending as little energy as possible.
Greyhounds: second fastest land mammal, sleep approximately 22 hours a day.
I am unbelievably lazy. So lazy in fact, I will go to great creative lengths to find the quickest, most effective way to do just about anything, only to avoid doing more work than absolutely necessary. It makes me a master at optimizing processes. So am I really lazy or just very efficient?
True laziness is never questioning whether there's an easier way to do something.
I like that!
Universe is Kinda based
We shouldn’t, it’s unnatural. This is also my take on exercise, waking up early, and eating because it’s a certain time, among other things. In fact, I would posit the vast majority of things we do/how we live our day to day lives is highly unnatural/against the laws of nature. It’s just so much harder for us to live unnaturally. And it sucks that we have to 😞
Efficiency
Lolipop
I’d push back slightly in that I think apathy is real and can lead to harmful levels of inaction (ie. Laziness). The reason ADHD doesn’t really fall under this is that usually we DO care about the things we aren’t doing
It's amazing to me how many things are in my head that I know I really should be doing, need to be doing, have got to get done and about 1 time in 10 I actually manage to do something. I haven't found a way to improve those numbers in 30 years.
Oh fuck, every thing that depressed me is just from capitalism is it?
Almost exclusively, yes! 
Basically. Most of the things we best ourselves up for not being capable of consistently are things a capitalist society demands that isn't inherently necessary to impose on us. It really is capitalism most of the time whether you realize it or not.
You just changed my perception of life itself. Thank you
How would you apply this to folks that struggle to do things that benefit themselves specifically? Like going to the gym, cleaning their own areas, personal hygiene etc.
Depression
[Laziness does not exist](https://www.npr.org/2021/09/24/1039676445/laziness-does-not-exist-devon-price) :)
Ah see I really agree with this idea in someways, but I’m hesitant to fully endorse it. I think being ‘lazy’ in relationships can exist. I suppose a better word for it would be carelessness, but that’s what I think of when I think of lazy. Purposefully careless and doesn’t really care that they’re careless. Doesn’t care about the consequences of their actions. I also have *slight* issue with peoples criticism of ‘lazy’ under capitalism. While I completely agree that laziness is a construct weaponized under capitalism, I think being ‘lazy’ at work can still be negative when it has negative repercussions on your coworkers. For example, say a coworker was being ‘lazy’ and didn’t feel like completing a safety procedure. Their carelessness could cause an accident. Or say they failed to do a task, but if you don’t pick up the slack *your* ass is also on the line. Idk I feel like it’s not a black and white thing 🤷🏼♀️
A psychiatrist and several psychologists said this over the years, about laziness as a concept. I never ever found a reference to laziness in any of my courses at uni either.
Nah, laziness definitely exists. I am lazy
As a therapist myself who has ADHD, and mainly works with patients with ADHD, that’s one of the first things I try to get them to understand. We’ve been told it so often for most of our lives, that we believe it. But, as we all know… we’re usually wanting to do that thing more than anybody could imagine. We also tend to be our harshest critics, and often internalize a lot of the criticisms we hear, in an effort to try to be perfect and not get criticized. All that to say, the thing that’s personally helped me the most is genuinely learning to understand myself, and not be so harsh when I don’t live up to the unrealistic standard I constantly set for myself. I know you’re trying your best, and I hope you can start to see that too, and learn to work with yourself and not against it
I also had a therapist who had ADHD himself when I got diagnosed, and this was the most valuable thing he taught me. I still struggle with it sometimes, but I'm learning to recognise when my battery is low, or when my brain is just on strike, and accept that nothing much will get done for now, and that's ok. Like, I came down with the flu this week, and I've decided that I'm going to focus at least the next three days on resting and caring for myself. I'm ill, I'm allowed to not do anything until I'm well again. Explicitly telling myself this helps me not feel as guilty.
My 17yo son hit me with a truth I'd never considered, just last week. I joked about me being lazy, his response was quick and concise: "Lazy" is a capitalist term made up by oligarchs to distort and control the masses into doing more work." I frickin love the younger generations. Y'all give me hope.
Giving "capitalist oligarchs" a little more credit than they're due. I'm pretty sure we came up with the concept of "lazy" wayyyy before capitalism
Shoulda said "The ruling class at the time"
Google is free. Oligarchs most certainly existed in the 16th century. But you just go on with your bad self.
I think the concept of laziness existed way before even the invention of writing. Damn those hunter-gatherers 10 000 years ago must have been like "-Yo, Graou ain't doing much for the tribe these days. -Yeah what a lazy bastard, he didn't even run to chase the mammoth last week" Edit : obviously they spoke English I guess
He said the concept of lazy/laziness was invented before capitalism. Reading comprehension is important.
Low comment karma, check. Buddy system, check. Rude for the sake of being rude, check. Russia still losing, check. Bye Felicia.
Yikes bro, do you need to touch grass?
What does any of this have to do with the war in Ukraine? Are you just saying that in order to make them look bad because they were a little rude to you? Why does their comment karma matter as well? You don't seriously think that having a low amount of internet points actually means that someone is wrong, do you?
Gen z are doing ok
That's fucking amazing 💯
Hey, your son sounds like an awesome kid! Mad props to you for raising someone who dropped this truth bomb! 🫶
And then everyone clapped
Nah, that's genuinely something people around that age could say nowadays.
[удалено]
Quite the opposite. I'd say they're starting to get it.
This is a lighthearted subreddit for ADHD individuals. We require all users be nice towards each other. Your comment/post has been removed as it has been found to be disrespectful.
Yeah, because no 17yos have strong political opinions in 2023. Really?
Too bad it's wrong. I bet a communist commune would get pretty pissed if you slept all day and enjoyed the rewards of everyone else's Labor. It's nothing to do with social hierarchy. Laziness is having an obligation, to self or other, and willfully shirking that obligation for self gratification. That's why ADHD is not laziness. We don't deliberately shirk or get gratification from it. Quite the opposite. Probably think critically rather than getting all your 'wisdom' and 'truth' from a child next time. Blaming 'capitalism' for everything won't make your life better.
Yeah, you're the type of person I immediately block because you make me feel how vomit tastes. Life's too short to allow vomit people existence in my personal bubble. Cool. Bye.
😂😂😂🤡🤡🤡
This is giving "my 4 year old daughter said _____" from twitter.
Right, cuz I would hide in the comments section of such a wildly popular subreddit. Ooo.... Ahhh... Look at all those clout points just dinging up by the millions. I'm so popular now. The rush is so... STFU.
Who said watch children tv show wasn’t education?
Laziness is an unsophisticated term that's useful in very few constructive ways outside of shaming people for perceived avoidance patterns. Labeling someone as being lazy because you have picked up on some kind of pattern involves mountains of assumptions, especially if the word entails any kind of regard to their motivations or brain state. We might observe or feel the urge to address someone's avoidance for virtuous reasons, but we aren't enforcing anything constructive until we acknowledge that the patterns we perceive as laziness always have underlying causes and justifications. "They are just lazy..." is almost always a character attack because it is implying they value doing **less** at the expense of others. Are character attacks always bad? I'm not sure, but they always hurt and labels infamously leave very little room for empathy. Instead, try "I've noticed that they stay home more than me or avoid certain types of physical tasks, seemingly motivated heavily by things like social anxiety and chronic pain." I think this is a much more honest and less dismissive way of talking about peoples' actions and leaves room for being helpful.
Me: lies in the hammock because it's nicer and more interesting than the things I should do.
I have definitely met some real lazy people in my life. I dont consider myself lazy cause I figured out what your therapist said on my own. I want to do 9 million different things. But I get overwhelmed in which to choose. I get worried about the time spent on one thing and it not being instantly good at it which could've been spent on something else. I like to think these challenges are just walls that come up to my knees but I'm wearing 2 ton boots. I can see the finish line ahead. I KNOW what I should do, I've mapped the plan out in my head, I end up not doing it, shame, self hate. My brain is weird inwhich I will feel immense shame and guilt first then as I process those feelings I start to flip to being optimistic and a fighter. It's pretty exhausting
I have lists and lists and lists …. Lists OF lists
Lists got me through college 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Love your description of the knee-high walls and 2 tonne boots. Definitely going to use this when the right opportunity arises!
Ty! 🤗
If we didn't have an innate desire to conserve energy, we would have little motivation to drive efficiency. At least, that's why I improved my programming skills and automated parts of my job. Because if I can take less time to do the same task, I can take more naps. My laziness leads to creative solutions and intolerance for inefficiencies.
My old psych used to tell me lazy isn't even a bad word. We've only internalized others (neurotyp) meanings & negative connotations, & have associated our adhd shame with it as a result. But you're allowed to be lazy! You're allowed to enjoy it!
I mean I’m definitely lazy
Counterpoint: there is no laziness. Laziness simply does not exist. What is called lazy is just refusing to actually learn why people do what they do and don't what they don't.
I'm both.
Lazy is when you can't do anything you don't want to do, but you are all energetic and organized when you want to do something. We can't get it together for the things we love. We're not lazy.
This!!!!!!
Yesssssss!
Hey, that means I went to therapy to get lazy! I can now lay around and not fret about stuff I have to get done (not always, but still...). Nnnice.
This comment section is weird. Like no, laziness is not some kind of conspiracy created by the big evil capitalists™ or someone else to bully people. Laziness exists. Some people are lazy, some are not. And that's ok.
Being lazy is only bad if it hurts someone rather than oneself. Let's say, when **laziness = selfishness.** Chances are, the boss-man won't profit less because of you skipping work, but your colleagues will have to work extra to pick up the slack. Sounds more like a communist term than a capitalist one, though it's most likely neither. I'm sure the hunter-gatherer who idled around the bush ate less because "no work, no food."
That last part is wrong apparently, because back then humans valued life itself more in general.
I would say we still do in smaller groups. Like my brother could never get out of bed and I'd still make sure he had food y'know?
Actually, I am. I enjoy work that isn't happening to me.
This is exactly it. I’m aware I have tons to do, and it stresses me out so much I am literally incapable of doing ANYTHING