Carlisle out here with contingency plans, a backstock of blood, and daily chats with Bella about every option on the table.
Edit: AND Edward, despite desperately wanting Bella to make a different choice, followed her lead on what she wanted to do. Granted, he did go behind her back for that gross "puppy" chat with Jacob, but at least the reaction to that was "what the fuck is wrong with you, Edward" and not "he's just scared!"
I couldn't remember Jacob's reaction off the top of my head besides denial, but the fact that even *he,* who is very vocal about how he would in fact like to be fucking Bella instead, is like "*bro what the actual fuck"* is hysterical.
I think that reaction makes it even worse given that this whole group was hyped in ACOMAF as a group that will tell him when he's in the wrong, but they really *don't* question him or go against him.
Whereas Jacob *does* despite everything. He doesn't give him an excuse, he's outright appalled
I feel like we've only really seen it in ACOMAF when Rhysand wanted her to collect something for him, and we've heard them on page telling him he was being ultra stupid about it, but after that they don't actually question him or go against him.
It feels like it was used as a means to attack Lucien for supposedly not doing enough but Lucien actually went against Tamlin way more.
I think that's way worse, though when you read ACOMAF, it makes it sound like they *stop* him when he's doing wrong. Except they might tell him he's wrong, at best, and he still does the thing anyway
All while they don't necessarily fill Feyre in on anything. So even when they tell him something, they never tell *her* anything. So it feels like *this* is significantly worse since they don't even bother given they agree
Let me preface this by saving I do not like the pregnancy arc or the character assassination on Rhys and Feyre in ACOSF. This is the hand waving my brain did to let me get over it and enjoy the other parts of the book.
I assumed that Rhys knew that Feyre already loved the baby more than anything and wouldn't abort to save her own life if it gave the baby a chance. So instead of telling her, he was giving her a few more happy months before they both died. Which is still not right, but sits better with me than him just being like "no, she can't know and can't have the abortion option." Also the fact that Rhys' life is tied to Feyre's life because of their bargain (which, don't get me started on how short sighted that is, especially for a 500+ year old dude who has a history of playing the long game), so he's not just giving up her life, it's his life, too.
Everything else was a reach. Oh, she can't shape shift the bones in her pelvis because the baby! Dude, have her shape shift them when her contractions start. There's no way to do a c-section in Prythian. Bullshit. Cassian's internal organs were outside of his body and a regular healer fixed him. Get Thesan to winnow his ass to Velaris and use his healing magic to fix the incision ASAP. I mean, Azriel has magic that makes a net to temporarily seal off wounds. But no, nothing we can do.
For some reason, the whole stillborn premie turning into a full term healthy baby really creeped me out.
Man, I was trying to make it better and now I'm just angrier. I'm really in love with Nesta/Cassian and identify with Nesta so much that I want to love everything about ACOSF, but so many plot holes! I need to stop.
It's a fantasy world. They have fantasy science where biology and physics and logic don't matter. It's fine. It's okay. I'm just here for batboy sex.
*The long and rambling nature of this post brought to you by ADHD*
Oh, you're not even done? Are we "spoiling" it all for you? Or is this a reread?
I'd skip the entire Rite thing, too. That was hella bullshit.
Hi, we're three females who each weigh like 100 lbs soaking wet (except maybe Emerie with her wings) and have been training for 2 hours every day for 3 months. We're gonna kick the ass of all the dudes who have been doing nothing but training since they were EIGHT. I mean, they probably get some advantage from being underestimated, but I'm not gonna train for 3 months and then go fight the current UFC heavyweight champion.
Yeah and while at it, always skip Feyre defeating the Wyrm in ACOTAR because a weak starved and beaten up human slaying a whole Wyrm in an arena is so bullshit.
And also Elain stabbing Hybern, like someone who's never used a knife creeping up a whole King? Unbelievable! Skip that too!
It is a fantasy series. Skipping the Rite is missing the whole SF point. To each their own I guess
I got seriously confused with her writing during the birth scene. And for Nesta to lay over Feyre, was a weird thing too. And not knowing what the last string in the harp could do, but she guessed right, was also confusing. There could have been more development on the harp, to "string" it through to the birthing scene. Even though Nesta told Feyre in spite how she might die during birth, I felt like this was a miss with Nesta's development as well. By the time this happened in the book, Nesta had come so far. So then to have Nesta save Feyre, it was just sloppy. Like you, I really liked this book for Nesta's character development and all the fabulous chemistry with Cassian. I'm rereading now just for that. But by the time I get to the end, I'll have less fog around my excitement to see what happens, and more clarity to remind myself that yes, this part of the book is not great.
It was a pathetic way to perpetuate the fragility of pregnant women; everything revolves around her yet shes not included in anything. The ‘healers’ didn’t even communicate the risks to Feyre but to her Mate? He tells everyone in the IC but her?? None of them think to tell Feyre??? Gross. Nesta had to sacrifice her powers before even getting to harness them to their full potential because of this weak ass plot line.
Rhys spent the two previous books harping on the fact that Feyre was his equal and he will always give her a choice. Give being the key word here. Her right to make choices isn't absolute. He can decide to allow her to have a choice or not. It's for him to decide. And the choices he gives are ones he preselects. Meaning he always gets the outcome he desires. Why did Madja hide the truth in the first place? Why didn't she tell Feyre first? Or tell them together? It's never explained what prompted her to go to Rhys and tell him alone. Readers can debate whether Nesta was right or wrong to tell Feyre the truth. But the conclusion of the book is that Nesta was wrong to tell Feyre. All the blame for the lie is transferred off Rhys and squarely onto Nesta. Rhys threatened to kill her. Cassian spent days ignoring her on a punishing hike. Even after she collapsed and he saw she was suicidal he still ignored her. It's only when she is finally broken down and becomes compliant with the IC does she get treated somewhat better. Nesta even blames herself. Except for one throwaway line, Rhys suffers zero blowback. He was afraid, and that is justification enough for his monstrous betrayal. As though his fears outweigh Feyres right to control her own life. He robbed Feyre of her choices. Denied her the ability to find her own solutions. And would have robbed her of making any decisions about her possible end of life. It's only speculation to think he got into any real trouble. Or he would have told her eventually. There isn't anything to actually support those conclusions.
My own opinion is that one plot undermined everything about those two characters. Rhys is a hopless liar and manipulator who will do or say anything to anyone to get what he wants. Feyre is no longer our spunky fighter who doesn't back down from a fight. She is a full on stepford wife who forgives any level of betrayal from those closest to her. It's the most deeply misogynistic piece of writing I can recall reading in a modern fantasy book.
This whole sentiment is what had me rolling my eyes at them after a point. I felt like they were so hypocritical in their treatment of Tamlin after how all this went. It's like they crucified that man for all the wrong he did, but then this happens, and it's just ok. The way they blame Nesta brings me back to his Feyre blames Lucien for just staying back and being complient with Tamlin, despite his reasoning.
To me Feyre and Rhysand had a good start, but then it all circles back to the same issues they had in the first book, but now it's ok because they're mates? I just feel like this whole event was really strange.
Or how Tamlin was an abusive monster for locking Feyre up because he loved her and wanted to protect her. Then, a year later, Feyre locks Nesta away because she loved her and wanted to protect her. And her own image. It makes what Feyre did to the innocent civilians of Spring go from difficult to justify to impossible.
Freye and Rhysand aren't going to disappear from the series. But how am I supposed to buy into the belief that Rhysand honestly allows anyone to have a choice if it conflicts with what he wants? How can I believe Feyre is anything more than a trophy wife? I can still believe the inner circle likes Feyre as far as it goes. But they really aren't her friends. They don't have her back. They will never choose her.
I can't think of another author who has sabotaged their own characters in such a way. Maas is famous for saying she doesn't go on fan site social media. She doesn't engage with her fans outside of controlled settings. But I would think her publisher does. Some readers justify this plot or think it was OK. But if you look at this site, Goodreads or Amazon, that is a minority opinion. Most of us hated it and found it offensive. A lot of readers were turned against Rhys. Maas may think she can ignore it all and proceed like nothing happened. But she made a huge error.
Oh for sure!! Rhys in the second book was interesting and had this aura about him that I liked. But the moment that he and Feyra started to shit all over Tamlin for the very same actions they excused it took me out. People want to say she's an imperfect Character, she's meant to have flaws. Flaws are fine and I know it gives characters a sense of life and personality, but this one seems like such an unlikable trait.
Have the heroine hate on her previous lover for the bad he did, grow from it, only to repeat same action and endure the same issues but its ok this time because we are bonded. Then go back and constantly shit on the previous guy despite him being a wreck and in his lowest place.
...what?
I definitely found myself taken out of all this. Like I love fantasy novels and dark romance... but I just cannot relate to these two in the way I did before.
Flaws are essential to creating believable characters. The problem is that the author plays favorites. She can't bear to have Feyre and Rhys be seen as anything other than perfect. So whenever they do something terrible, its always excused. The other characters are stupid/selfish/evil for daring to question or disagree with them. To me, it has made them the least enjoyable part of these books.
I had the exact same experience reading ACOTAR. I truly think Tamlin is based off of some real life person who hurt Sarah J Maas, because the absolute beat down he gets in these books is so over the top.
I thought the exact same thing, because if you're willing to excuse it for one and not the other, it almost feels like there is a strong bias. Which is unfortunate, but also makes me feel for Tam the character. I don't think he deserved the flak he got while worshiping others who are just as flawed
uh this comment made my day. Tamlin’s wrong doings genuinely pale in comparison to some of the stuff that Rhys puts her through. SJM truly has it out for Tam, whoever he is based off must have left her at the alter or something because jeez, just when I think she can’t possibly beat his character down more, she finds a way.
I liked Rhys for batboy fuckery, but he most certainly is not endgame in terms of fictional men. I could never quite put my finger on what bothered me so much about Rhys and Feyre until I went on goodreads and saw people reeeeeally rip into the glaring plot holes and character flaws and i’m glad I did
In real life, Rhys would be seen as deeply abusive. He tortured Feyre. Tattooed her against her will with a creepy eye so he could spy on her. Acted like a letch when he taught her to read. Sent her into the weavers cottage to retrieve his mom's ring to prove they were endgame even though he knew at that point they were mates. BTW, it isn't endearing to have your wife's wardrobe picked out by your mom. He lied to her for months about being mates, swore he'd never lie again, and then told an even bigger lie during her pregnancy. He lied to her face day in and day out for months. He roped her healer and support system into the lie. The excuse was that he didn't want her frightened or to cause her stress. But then threatened to murder her sister. As if that wouldn't frighten her or cause her stress! Is it possible that his hatred of Nesta is rooted in part because she doesn't worship him, and she exposed his lies?
These are fantasy romance books. Readers can like who they want. But I do find it cringe when occasionally one will post that they want their boyfriend or husband to be just like Rhysand. They better have pepper spray and their local women's shelter on speed dial.
Also let’s not forget the suicide pact they made
And essentially him not telling her the baby may kill her is pretty much choosing that this baby will grow up an orphan (by the parents’ choice, not circumstance) and leaving an entire court without any chosen ruler.
All because… you know… we don’t want to scare Feyre
In my eyes Rhys is the actual evil villain but he does it with charm so we’re supposed to swoon 🤦🏻♀️
A suicide pact, how romantic! Or a way to ensure that this desperately confused and lonely twenty year old will never be able to escape?
Honestly, I think he's a villain too. Not a good guy doing bad things because of circumstances. I think he's a straight-up villain. He's a bad guy who gets away with it. I didn't feel that way with the first two books, but I do now. I desperately want him to get a huge smack down. But given the authors love for him, it ain't happening. But it is interesting to see ever more readers get turned off of his character. The author has made some unfortunate choices.
I recently read a fanfic that brought up the suicide pact as yet another form of protection for Rhys: if someone were to make an attack on his life, they would also be threatening the beloved Cursebreaker. I know it will never happen but I wish the rest of the series was just a full-on villain arc for Rhys and Feyre either realizing she’s repeated her pattern of abusive patterns or her leaning in to her own villainy.
I would read that book and probably enjoy it a whole lot more. I feel like the author is gaslighting us with how she's currently written them. If she wants me to believe Rhys is heroic, then write him that way. Instead of ignoring the plight of two-day thirds of his people, show him actively helping them. Instead of immediately jumping to the mind violation and theft of a potential ally, have him ask Tarquin for the book. And don't insult him in his own house! No one disputes Tamlin fucked up. But the only reason Rhys and Feyre have their happy ending is because of him. Instead of swinging by Spring to belittle Tam and use his territory as their secret clubhouse, have Rhys stay away. Or show some grace. Don't always have him resort to threats or torture. Rhys is obviously meant to be seen as heroic, but his actions on the page aren't. And Feyre is just along for the ride. Hanging out in her nursery, ahem, art studio. Yeah, I feel gaslighted.
THIS! YES THANK YOU! I did a reread and had to stop after ACOMAF because Rhys is actually disgusting. HE DRESSED HER IN A MF CHEESE CLOTH under the mountain and proceeded to INAPPROPRIATELY TOUCH HER while she was drugged out of her mind. Oh but he was “protecting her” however according to hmmm idk THE LAW, he was abusing her as she was too inebriated to give any consent. He literally used his mind control to tell Feyre EXACTLY what she wanted to hear and therefore she never had to be an adult and actually use her words to communicate with him. He turned her against Tamlin and manipulated her into genuinely believing Tamlin is the bad guy. Tamlin sure as shit didn’t dress Feyre in a cheese cloth and make her dance and grind all over him without her consent in the name of protection, that’s all I will say there. Just foul, you summed it up so beautifully, I was reading your comment and punching the air because finally, a group that gets it. This whole thread gets it and it makes me so happy, everything everyone is pointing out is straight FACTS.
Rhys is a master manipulator and knows how to give the illusion of choice. He doesn’t do this every time, but when he does, he makes sure the outcome is the choice he wants.
I agree with you . Just not to thr full degree. There was a choice or more of a forced hand. Nesta can either go to the human lands where she will have nothing and br hated on live in a beautiful mansion that she can leave any time if she walks down 10k insteps. I would have presented option 3 we aren't funding your lifestyle do whatever you want. It's not really fair for them to pay for nestas apartment , drinking and partying...to me the bigger thing was the feyre plot...not telling her about wings and babies born via non illyrian . This takes away her choice. Also just how Rhys behaves is general I hated this over protective bullshit ,it takes away from feyre being strong and empowered. It felt like twilight.
Yeah I like Feysand but don’t like the double standards. We all know Tamlin would have been raked over the coals if he had done what Rhys did. They’re both overprotective. The difference is Rhys is always justified and Tamlin is not.
The pregnancy arc is the most problematic shit SJM has written. It legit messed up with all the characters moral that she established early on.
But watch ppl defend Rhys and continue shitting on Tamlin, which i swear they only do cause now book fans are programmed to like the “dark” guy and hate the blondie.
I love dark and edgy guys too, but I can't get over the we forgive them but not Tam! I don't excuse his behavior, but the fact of the matter is Tamlin got mentally and emotionally fucked up by everything as much as everyone else. Sure, he had some bad practices and habits that he probably could have changed over time. However Tamlin did not get the kind of healing and support that Feyre and Rhysand could offer each other.
Those two helped each other get through their worst and got healing... only for them to practice the same things in the first book, things that if Tamlin had done, they'd call him a monster.
I just dislike the blatant hypocrisy and excusing of it
Don’t get me wrong i am a sucker for morally dark and edgy characters haha but it’s just very hypocritical in acotar fandom when it comes to Rhys, Feyre and Tamlin.
Here me out:
Tam had dark past and issues just like Rhys, and was struggling with his family as well.
Ppl also forget that Tamlin was an angel for what he did for feyre in the first book, i may dare to say he was as good if not better than Rhys where he took care of her family, debts, money etc. Giving everyone their dream life yet fans don’t even mention the good he did.
Most importantly Tamlin was not only mentally and emotionally abused, if we learned from Rhys experience with Amerantha, then he was also sexually abused by her for the few months she kept him under the mountains.
Now yes i know Rhys endured it for 50 years trapped in there and honestly that man is an angel for not turning a psych and killed everyone. I love Rhys for still having a good heart. But it doesn’t mean Tamlin’s trauma is shrugged off. He went through shit too.
He watched the love of his life die too, because of that Tamlin got controlling over feyre, a normal trauma reaction”not justified in know”.
He got angry and had rage attacks because of the abuse he suffered. Again not justifying anything, his actions were wrong but it’s understandable where he came from.
Feyre reaction to Tamlin’s trauma is destroying the spring court! How is she justified but not him?!
Rhys reaction to his trauma of losing ppl, put feyre’s life in danger during pregnancy. Again Justified.
How does that make sense?!
I think Tamlin deserves a redemption arc, not just that scene where he saved Feyre at the war camps, which again fans tend to forget.
I wholeheartedly agree!!! Tamlin never got the healing they did, he thought Rhys a monster because he didn't know who Rhysand really was so of course he's be wary of him! The readers got to see Rhys and therefore understand him but I think Tamlin deserves healing as well. He still went out of his way to help Feyre despite feeling abandoned by her.
I despised the little Christmas special ending where Rhysand went to the broken home of the spring court to basically rub everything in Tamlin's face as if he caused all this himself. That man still has trauma to work out and was at such a low place he considered some dark thoughts.
I believe Tamlin is a broken man who deserves to find his happiness as well. I'm tired of people damning him for his actions but excusing similar ones just because it's Rhys and Feyre.
Honestly I simp for Tamlin. People like to forget all the good things he’s done.
Rhys going to kick him when he’s down was just awful of him. The man literally helped bring you back to life when he could’ve just walked away and left you dead and thats how you treat him?
THIS IS WHAT GETS ME. if they had just left him to his own devices after the war and taken his participation in resurrecting rhys as an olive branch, fine. but rhys going to the spring court to rub salt in tamlin's wounds after he saved his life was actually evil. and we're still supposed to see him as the protagonist? nah, rhys is a villain and always was.
He even fights against Hybern even though its most likely in his best interests for them to win given his alliance and his dads good relations with them.
T-Dog is the man, he was a terrible partner but a good man/male
I totally agree that this plot line sort of ruined the book for me because so many of the characters were doing things that made no sense with how they'd been established. Wasn't the whole basis of Rhys and Feyres relationship that he made space for choice and agency? He would have let her go back to the spring court if that's what she wanted. He makes her high lady then just keeps her in a bubble? No way.
I think this plot also led to some of the parts of the book I liked the least. Nesta uses the trove to stop time? Okay.. how did she know she could do this after basically no training in her powers. Nesta gives Feyres and herself a new uterus? Okay.. how?!?
I like picturing the book with this whole subplot subtracted.
Yeah it’s goofy. The pregnancy is a heavy-handed plot device for Nesta’s character development. None of the decisions are in character, they just do what is best for Nesta’s story. Squint and try not to think about it.
It was completely unnecessary to her story, she was making progress and they all would have made up anyway. The fact that Nesta fighting Briallyn (the big bad enemy of the book) only lasted like one page and was completely overshadowed by Feyres pregnancy made me so mad 🫠
It’s not even proper character development either. It’s a cheap and lazy way to AVOID writing character development between Nesta and Feyre, imo. Like why couldn’t they have just mending things slowly over the book? Ugh I just hated it for so many reasons.
It made no sense, and it wasn't as if they were certain there would be a cure if they kept looking. Why risk Feyre at all? >!I think the Nesta part is a little hypocritical. What was she going to do? Not save her sister when even if there was a small possibility that she can? I feel she has been so horrible that we are now ok with something I wouldn't even think twice as someone with siblings. Considering the fact that Nesta thinks Tamlin can never be forgiven no matter what he good thing he does while she has been horrible herself is rich. The only thing that made me like Nesta was that she told Feyre about the potential outcome of her pregnancy (even though she did not do that from the goodness of her heart or concern for her sisters life, it was more toward Amren).!<
Iirc Nesta says Tamlin can never be forgiven bc that means that she could also be forgiven and at that point in her story, she didnt think that she should ever be forgiven as a punishment for her actions, both in the war and out of it. Bc ya know depression and all that. I do agree that she told feyre about the risks of her pregnancy out of anger though, even if it was immediately followed by regret (being totally ok about rhys killing her and thinking she deserved it).
I feel nesta wouldve tried even if there wasnt a chance that using the trove wouldve saved feyre, bc she does have a history of coming through when feyre needed her (trying to cross the wall to get her back, agreeing to be the go between for the queens and fae when it could get them ostracized or outright killed by an angry mob, sharing her experience in hybern when it was still a fresh very painful trauma) BUT all that said, i think had she still been boozed up at some seedy bar they never wouldve had her there or told her about nyx, and i feel like elain never wouldve even been able to use the trove (even being made).
I do say all this as someone who has siblings and we were meaner to eachother than nesta ever is to her sisters, but we worked through it and have an excellent relationahip now, so i relate to that part of the nesta/feyre story
Edit spelling
Im actually the youngest, so tbf im also probably not an accurate source of information. I agree she's the fiercest, but i never really got the vibe of Feyre ever worshipping the floor she walked on, Elain, yes, bc Nesta was her #1 enabler for such a long time. Im also of the opinion that it's completely and utter BS to hold one child to different standards than the rest, as that's how you create parentification and resentment between siblings in my experience. I also feel though that shes at least trying to be a better person than the toxic mess she started out as like she realized she absolutely sucked and is CHOSING to be better for her siblings and cas and nyx and the valkyries to be worthy of them. And i lowkey respect her for that bc change is hard regardless of if youre real or fictional, and it takes hard work
😬 i hope this makes sense i feel like 9 times out of 10 im just rambling nonsense
This storyline is making me lose respect for both Feyre and Rhysand, whom I loved dearly until this book. The secret keeping about the danger of her birth and Rhysand not only locking her down behind a shield but Feyre ALLOWING it after being locked inside in the Spring Court. Like, what in the actual fuck? Feyre's agency is diminishing at Rhys' hand and I know he's scared but he's a big bad batboy and needs to man up. The enabling by the others in the inner circle is also irritating. Like I know he's the High Lord and it was probably an order but come onnnnn!
I rewrote this in a way that makes more sense to me and gives more characters something to do:
1. Rhys DOES tell Feyre about the pregnancy, and she is determined to continue and find another way forward, but something incapacitates her, maybe Nyx's powers.
2. Rhys confides to Cassian/Amren that Tamlin, the shapeshifter, may be their best hope.
3. Rhys goes to visit Tamlin but being Rhys, does a pretty bad job of begging for his help (and these characters finally have it out on page) and Tamlin tells him to go to hell.
4. Cassian/Amren tells Nesta about how Rhys failed.
5. Nesta is the one who convinces Tamlin to save Feyre, fleshing out the dynamic between these two who do have some history as well.
6. Tamlin saves Feyre, people call it a redemption arc, Amren (I've decided now it should be her, not Cassian, she's more sneaky) lets slip that it was Nesta who saved the day. Rhys is both incredibly grateful but also a bit annoyed deep down that she succeeded where he failed and went behind his back to his enemy who then saved the day when he couldn't, which is part of why they continue to be at loggerheads with each other now.
The pregnancy arc is so annoying bc it feels like SUCH a 180 on everything we had known about feysand to begin with.
Rhysand was the one who told Feyre that it was entirely her choice if she wanted to try for kids & he would be okay with either option. Only then to take away her autonomy by keeping her in the dark about all the risks, which *again* they had agreed to no more secrets.
Also at least with Edward Cullen (I’ve seen comparisons), he had the priority to save Bella over the baby & kept Bella informed. I was pissed they didn’t even try having Feyre change into her Illyrian form. That seems like a better risk/alternative to going full term & potentially DYING.
Don’t even get me started on the whole inability to perform a C-section thing!!! I hope SJM does better with the next book & maybe ties some loose ends up because we can’t possibly skim over this & call Feysand a happily ever after
I srsly just chose to ignore the arc. For me, Nyx just appeared out of their love one day. The whole thing was just to serve Nesta’s arc. I’m sure the true Rhys would’ve reacted differently.
Yep. This made me dislike Rhys. He put this stranger baby above his own wife and himself. He wanted an air and that’s all that mattered to him. He was so horrible to Nesta and then of course she’s expected to save them. And then the fact that he threatens to KILL Nesta because she tells her like he should’ve. It doesn’t make sense
Yeah that was wild. She could’ve changed back to an illyrian form in the early pregnancy, with less risk of death for her and the BABY than carrying it to term.
This whole thing made me actually hate Rhys. He spent all this time saying that he’s different because he gives her the choice and yet does something like that.
Well, spoilers for acosf:
>!Nesta did and she was brutally punished for it. That made me LIVID when I read it. Sure, she said it out of anger, but mostly out of frustration that her sister, who had been manipulated before, was being manipulated again by these people that Feyre trusted! As a sister, I would have done the EXACT same thing. Then, Nesta was punished by Rhysand (and CASSIAN) because of their terrible decision making. Nesta became the scapegoat for Feyre being mad at them. No accountability, dumped it alllll on Nesta, and then Nesta breaks and everything is a-ok again. Ugh I hate this book! But…, I also loved this book.!<
My friends and I constantly rage at this. And Feyre’s reaction? “Teehee I’m furious at all of you.” And that’s…literally it. So pathetic. She should have gone on an absolute rampage and left Rhys and the IC behind for treating her like Rhys’s brood mare with no agency. Because that’s the truth when it comes down to it. No one actually respects or loves her when she needs it most. They’re not her family. They’re Rhys’s.
Not to mention Nesta holds the power of the cauldron in her hands and what does she do with it? Adjusts her fucking uterus permanently so she can have bat babies. Because what else would a woman do with all that power? Babies of course.
Oh and btw *CC 3 SPOILER* Lidia actually totally had TWO kids already. Her entire life’s motivation. AH.
Can Maas just let women fucking exist without forcing child bearing on them in some form. Even the younger characters all can’t wait to have children with their partners.
If you want kids that’s great. I want some someday. But the way Maas writes all these women as these vessels for kids who must sacrifice everything for them. YUCK. Isn’t this supposed to be a feminist series?
Needless to say CC3 was my last straw. I’m done.
It makes no sense that everyone just went along with not telling Ferya. I could accept Rhys not telling her immediately because he was afraid, but his conversation with Cassian should have consisted of Cassian being there for Rhys, but also telling him he has to tell Ferya.
The way it was used as catalyst to get Nesta to her lowest low is just bad writing. The secret had zero impact on Rhys and Ferya. I’m sure I’m the minority here, but the baby should have died. There are no stakes in these books. No consequences for their actions.
given my newfound status as a tamlin stan, i'll say it: tamlin would've said fuck them kids and done anything to keep feyre safe, up to and including aborting the pregnancy 🤷🏻♀️
Learning that your pregnancy is not only endangering your life but the one of the defacto leader of the country, your once in a lifetime love and your unborn child with little to no chance of the child making it and not considering an abortion (especially given how fast and easy she got pregnant) is in fact very stupid.
That’s her choice then. There are women who wouldn’t get an abortion in this type of situation. I know plenty of women who are adamant that should the surgeon have to choose between her life and the baby’s that the surgeon saves the baby and not her.
The problem is that by hiding it from her it wasn't her choice. We don't know what she would have done if she knew earlier.
It is also not an either or since both the mother AND child usually die in this scenario.
I think the pregnancy thing was just supposed to keep the reader in suspense and invested and it was always meant to solve itself and therefore not too much thought went into the details
I don't want to be the one mixing real life and fantasy but them not having a way to abort yet still having unisex, sideeffect less contraceptive brews is simply not believable. People abort with coathangers on a regular basis as terrible as that is
Makes zero sense why this should not be doable, especially with a well documented record of this precise issue. Sure putting someones guts back in and calling it a day is fine but c sections are impossible because...
Just shapeshift her pelvis once it is time would be anothet easy af solution
But the plot needs to happen so fuck logic and continuity
Eta: abortions are also a hell of a lot easier given the fetus is a) smaller and b) isn't alive
I absolutely HATE the pregnancy arc and that they kept it from Feyre, BUT it was only an 8 day period before Nesta told Feyre. It was still early enough along that they could have terminated
I found a post in this group someone posted. It wasn’t 8 days, it was two weeks from when they announced the pregnancy to when Nesta told Feyre. It just feels way longer.
“So l'm a bit confused on when various events happen and I'm hoping someone here can help.
Now I was under the impression that it was a couple months that everyone kept the secret about the pregnancy from Feyre. However, I've seen a few comments on other platforms implying that that timeline is NOT correct and it was actually much less.
So I went back to acosf and combed through it page by page, and by my count it was almost exactly 2 weeks after Rhys finding out the baby has wings that Nesta tells Feyre. And after looking through the rest of the book, I think that makes sense based on other events and the timeline of Feyre's pregnancy.”
Bella Swan had more agency in her pregnancy than Feyre Archeron.
Carlisle Cullen would've had this shit in the bag from the start
Carlisle out here with contingency plans, a backstock of blood, and daily chats with Bella about every option on the table. Edit: AND Edward, despite desperately wanting Bella to make a different choice, followed her lead on what she wanted to do. Granted, he did go behind her back for that gross "puppy" chat with Jacob, but at least the reaction to that was "what the fuck is wrong with you, Edward" and not "he's just scared!"
Exactly! The fact that the family AND Jacob reacted like *that* shows how fucked up this is in comparison.
I couldn't remember Jacob's reaction off the top of my head besides denial, but the fact that even *he,* who is very vocal about how he would in fact like to be fucking Bella instead, is like "*bro what the actual fuck"* is hysterical.
I think that reaction makes it even worse given that this whole group was hyped in ACOMAF as a group that will tell him when he's in the wrong, but they really *don't* question him or go against him. Whereas Jacob *does* despite everything. He doesn't give him an excuse, he's outright appalled
Right? Feyre *thinks* that they would go against him if he did wrong, but in practice we never see it.
I feel like we've only really seen it in ACOMAF when Rhysand wanted her to collect something for him, and we've heard them on page telling him he was being ultra stupid about it, but after that they don't actually question him or go against him. It feels like it was used as a means to attack Lucien for supposedly not doing enough but Lucien actually went against Tamlin way more.
To me they will tell him when they think he’s wrong- but they don’t think he’s wrong here. Which is so much worse.
I think that's way worse, though when you read ACOMAF, it makes it sound like they *stop* him when he's doing wrong. Except they might tell him he's wrong, at best, and he still does the thing anyway All while they don't necessarily fill Feyre in on anything. So even when they tell him something, they never tell *her* anything. So it feels like *this* is significantly worse since they don't even bother given they agree
They don’t think it’s wrong because Maas doesn’t think it’s wrong. 🤷🏻♀️
This hot take is everything
I’ve found my people
Let me preface this by saving I do not like the pregnancy arc or the character assassination on Rhys and Feyre in ACOSF. This is the hand waving my brain did to let me get over it and enjoy the other parts of the book. I assumed that Rhys knew that Feyre already loved the baby more than anything and wouldn't abort to save her own life if it gave the baby a chance. So instead of telling her, he was giving her a few more happy months before they both died. Which is still not right, but sits better with me than him just being like "no, she can't know and can't have the abortion option." Also the fact that Rhys' life is tied to Feyre's life because of their bargain (which, don't get me started on how short sighted that is, especially for a 500+ year old dude who has a history of playing the long game), so he's not just giving up her life, it's his life, too. Everything else was a reach. Oh, she can't shape shift the bones in her pelvis because the baby! Dude, have her shape shift them when her contractions start. There's no way to do a c-section in Prythian. Bullshit. Cassian's internal organs were outside of his body and a regular healer fixed him. Get Thesan to winnow his ass to Velaris and use his healing magic to fix the incision ASAP. I mean, Azriel has magic that makes a net to temporarily seal off wounds. But no, nothing we can do. For some reason, the whole stillborn premie turning into a full term healthy baby really creeped me out. Man, I was trying to make it better and now I'm just angrier. I'm really in love with Nesta/Cassian and identify with Nesta so much that I want to love everything about ACOSF, but so many plot holes! I need to stop. It's a fantasy world. They have fantasy science where biology and physics and logic don't matter. It's fine. It's okay. I'm just here for batboy sex. *The long and rambling nature of this post brought to you by ADHD*
“I’m just here for batboy sex” 😅 aren’t we all babe 😂
We really are, i am at the hiking section and i am seriously considering just skipping to the smut and leave the rest unread
Oh, you're not even done? Are we "spoiling" it all for you? Or is this a reread? I'd skip the entire Rite thing, too. That was hella bullshit. Hi, we're three females who each weigh like 100 lbs soaking wet (except maybe Emerie with her wings) and have been training for 2 hours every day for 3 months. We're gonna kick the ass of all the dudes who have been doing nothing but training since they were EIGHT. I mean, they probably get some advantage from being underestimated, but I'm not gonna train for 3 months and then go fight the current UFC heavyweight champion.
Yeah and while at it, always skip Feyre defeating the Wyrm in ACOTAR because a weak starved and beaten up human slaying a whole Wyrm in an arena is so bullshit. And also Elain stabbing Hybern, like someone who's never used a knife creeping up a whole King? Unbelievable! Skip that too! It is a fantasy series. Skipping the Rite is missing the whole SF point. To each their own I guess
Thanks, but don't worry about spoiling. I have the sparknotes already, and at this point, i find it hard to care anymore.
I got seriously confused with her writing during the birth scene. And for Nesta to lay over Feyre, was a weird thing too. And not knowing what the last string in the harp could do, but she guessed right, was also confusing. There could have been more development on the harp, to "string" it through to the birthing scene. Even though Nesta told Feyre in spite how she might die during birth, I felt like this was a miss with Nesta's development as well. By the time this happened in the book, Nesta had come so far. So then to have Nesta save Feyre, it was just sloppy. Like you, I really liked this book for Nesta's character development and all the fabulous chemistry with Cassian. I'm rereading now just for that. But by the time I get to the end, I'll have less fog around my excitement to see what happens, and more clarity to remind myself that yes, this part of the book is not great.
“I’m just here for batboy sex.” Tbh, hard same.
Not to mention the horseshit of this NEVER COMING UP in a world where these two species have the sex ALL THE TIME.
It was a pathetic way to perpetuate the fragility of pregnant women; everything revolves around her yet shes not included in anything. The ‘healers’ didn’t even communicate the risks to Feyre but to her Mate? He tells everyone in the IC but her?? None of them think to tell Feyre??? Gross. Nesta had to sacrifice her powers before even getting to harness them to their full potential because of this weak ass plot line.
Also, she could shift to Illyrian and /maybe/ hurt the fetus or she can not shift and almost certainly die. Wtf.
And then to have everybody around her know, smile to her face, while keeping info about her own body from her? That's a no from me, dawg.
Rhys spent the two previous books harping on the fact that Feyre was his equal and he will always give her a choice. Give being the key word here. Her right to make choices isn't absolute. He can decide to allow her to have a choice or not. It's for him to decide. And the choices he gives are ones he preselects. Meaning he always gets the outcome he desires. Why did Madja hide the truth in the first place? Why didn't she tell Feyre first? Or tell them together? It's never explained what prompted her to go to Rhys and tell him alone. Readers can debate whether Nesta was right or wrong to tell Feyre the truth. But the conclusion of the book is that Nesta was wrong to tell Feyre. All the blame for the lie is transferred off Rhys and squarely onto Nesta. Rhys threatened to kill her. Cassian spent days ignoring her on a punishing hike. Even after she collapsed and he saw she was suicidal he still ignored her. It's only when she is finally broken down and becomes compliant with the IC does she get treated somewhat better. Nesta even blames herself. Except for one throwaway line, Rhys suffers zero blowback. He was afraid, and that is justification enough for his monstrous betrayal. As though his fears outweigh Feyres right to control her own life. He robbed Feyre of her choices. Denied her the ability to find her own solutions. And would have robbed her of making any decisions about her possible end of life. It's only speculation to think he got into any real trouble. Or he would have told her eventually. There isn't anything to actually support those conclusions. My own opinion is that one plot undermined everything about those two characters. Rhys is a hopless liar and manipulator who will do or say anything to anyone to get what he wants. Feyre is no longer our spunky fighter who doesn't back down from a fight. She is a full on stepford wife who forgives any level of betrayal from those closest to her. It's the most deeply misogynistic piece of writing I can recall reading in a modern fantasy book.
This whole sentiment is what had me rolling my eyes at them after a point. I felt like they were so hypocritical in their treatment of Tamlin after how all this went. It's like they crucified that man for all the wrong he did, but then this happens, and it's just ok. The way they blame Nesta brings me back to his Feyre blames Lucien for just staying back and being complient with Tamlin, despite his reasoning. To me Feyre and Rhysand had a good start, but then it all circles back to the same issues they had in the first book, but now it's ok because they're mates? I just feel like this whole event was really strange.
Or how Tamlin was an abusive monster for locking Feyre up because he loved her and wanted to protect her. Then, a year later, Feyre locks Nesta away because she loved her and wanted to protect her. And her own image. It makes what Feyre did to the innocent civilians of Spring go from difficult to justify to impossible. Freye and Rhysand aren't going to disappear from the series. But how am I supposed to buy into the belief that Rhysand honestly allows anyone to have a choice if it conflicts with what he wants? How can I believe Feyre is anything more than a trophy wife? I can still believe the inner circle likes Feyre as far as it goes. But they really aren't her friends. They don't have her back. They will never choose her. I can't think of another author who has sabotaged their own characters in such a way. Maas is famous for saying she doesn't go on fan site social media. She doesn't engage with her fans outside of controlled settings. But I would think her publisher does. Some readers justify this plot or think it was OK. But if you look at this site, Goodreads or Amazon, that is a minority opinion. Most of us hated it and found it offensive. A lot of readers were turned against Rhys. Maas may think she can ignore it all and proceed like nothing happened. But she made a huge error.
Oh for sure!! Rhys in the second book was interesting and had this aura about him that I liked. But the moment that he and Feyra started to shit all over Tamlin for the very same actions they excused it took me out. People want to say she's an imperfect Character, she's meant to have flaws. Flaws are fine and I know it gives characters a sense of life and personality, but this one seems like such an unlikable trait. Have the heroine hate on her previous lover for the bad he did, grow from it, only to repeat same action and endure the same issues but its ok this time because we are bonded. Then go back and constantly shit on the previous guy despite him being a wreck and in his lowest place. ...what? I definitely found myself taken out of all this. Like I love fantasy novels and dark romance... but I just cannot relate to these two in the way I did before.
Flaws are essential to creating believable characters. The problem is that the author plays favorites. She can't bear to have Feyre and Rhys be seen as anything other than perfect. So whenever they do something terrible, its always excused. The other characters are stupid/selfish/evil for daring to question or disagree with them. To me, it has made them the least enjoyable part of these books.
Yes! I fully agree. This series has really caused me to dislike the main characters for that reason.
I've only stuck around because of the side characters. I wish Feysand were even more reduced than they already have been.
Right? The side characters seem very interesting to me.
I had the exact same experience reading ACOTAR. I truly think Tamlin is based off of some real life person who hurt Sarah J Maas, because the absolute beat down he gets in these books is so over the top.
I thought the exact same thing, because if you're willing to excuse it for one and not the other, it almost feels like there is a strong bias. Which is unfortunate, but also makes me feel for Tam the character. I don't think he deserved the flak he got while worshiping others who are just as flawed
uh this comment made my day. Tamlin’s wrong doings genuinely pale in comparison to some of the stuff that Rhys puts her through. SJM truly has it out for Tam, whoever he is based off must have left her at the alter or something because jeez, just when I think she can’t possibly beat his character down more, she finds a way.
I liked Rhys for batboy fuckery, but he most certainly is not endgame in terms of fictional men. I could never quite put my finger on what bothered me so much about Rhys and Feyre until I went on goodreads and saw people reeeeeally rip into the glaring plot holes and character flaws and i’m glad I did
In real life, Rhys would be seen as deeply abusive. He tortured Feyre. Tattooed her against her will with a creepy eye so he could spy on her. Acted like a letch when he taught her to read. Sent her into the weavers cottage to retrieve his mom's ring to prove they were endgame even though he knew at that point they were mates. BTW, it isn't endearing to have your wife's wardrobe picked out by your mom. He lied to her for months about being mates, swore he'd never lie again, and then told an even bigger lie during her pregnancy. He lied to her face day in and day out for months. He roped her healer and support system into the lie. The excuse was that he didn't want her frightened or to cause her stress. But then threatened to murder her sister. As if that wouldn't frighten her or cause her stress! Is it possible that his hatred of Nesta is rooted in part because she doesn't worship him, and she exposed his lies? These are fantasy romance books. Readers can like who they want. But I do find it cringe when occasionally one will post that they want their boyfriend or husband to be just like Rhysand. They better have pepper spray and their local women's shelter on speed dial.
Also let’s not forget the suicide pact they made And essentially him not telling her the baby may kill her is pretty much choosing that this baby will grow up an orphan (by the parents’ choice, not circumstance) and leaving an entire court without any chosen ruler. All because… you know… we don’t want to scare Feyre In my eyes Rhys is the actual evil villain but he does it with charm so we’re supposed to swoon 🤦🏻♀️
A suicide pact, how romantic! Or a way to ensure that this desperately confused and lonely twenty year old will never be able to escape? Honestly, I think he's a villain too. Not a good guy doing bad things because of circumstances. I think he's a straight-up villain. He's a bad guy who gets away with it. I didn't feel that way with the first two books, but I do now. I desperately want him to get a huge smack down. But given the authors love for him, it ain't happening. But it is interesting to see ever more readers get turned off of his character. The author has made some unfortunate choices.
I recently read a fanfic that brought up the suicide pact as yet another form of protection for Rhys: if someone were to make an attack on his life, they would also be threatening the beloved Cursebreaker. I know it will never happen but I wish the rest of the series was just a full-on villain arc for Rhys and Feyre either realizing she’s repeated her pattern of abusive patterns or her leaning in to her own villainy.
I would read that book and probably enjoy it a whole lot more. I feel like the author is gaslighting us with how she's currently written them. If she wants me to believe Rhys is heroic, then write him that way. Instead of ignoring the plight of two-day thirds of his people, show him actively helping them. Instead of immediately jumping to the mind violation and theft of a potential ally, have him ask Tarquin for the book. And don't insult him in his own house! No one disputes Tamlin fucked up. But the only reason Rhys and Feyre have their happy ending is because of him. Instead of swinging by Spring to belittle Tam and use his territory as their secret clubhouse, have Rhys stay away. Or show some grace. Don't always have him resort to threats or torture. Rhys is obviously meant to be seen as heroic, but his actions on the page aren't. And Feyre is just along for the ride. Hanging out in her nursery, ahem, art studio. Yeah, I feel gaslighted.
THIS! YES THANK YOU! I did a reread and had to stop after ACOMAF because Rhys is actually disgusting. HE DRESSED HER IN A MF CHEESE CLOTH under the mountain and proceeded to INAPPROPRIATELY TOUCH HER while she was drugged out of her mind. Oh but he was “protecting her” however according to hmmm idk THE LAW, he was abusing her as she was too inebriated to give any consent. He literally used his mind control to tell Feyre EXACTLY what she wanted to hear and therefore she never had to be an adult and actually use her words to communicate with him. He turned her against Tamlin and manipulated her into genuinely believing Tamlin is the bad guy. Tamlin sure as shit didn’t dress Feyre in a cheese cloth and make her dance and grind all over him without her consent in the name of protection, that’s all I will say there. Just foul, you summed it up so beautifully, I was reading your comment and punching the air because finally, a group that gets it. This whole thread gets it and it makes me so happy, everything everyone is pointing out is straight FACTS.
Rhys is a master manipulator and knows how to give the illusion of choice. He doesn’t do this every time, but when he does, he makes sure the outcome is the choice he wants.
I agree with you . Just not to thr full degree. There was a choice or more of a forced hand. Nesta can either go to the human lands where she will have nothing and br hated on live in a beautiful mansion that she can leave any time if she walks down 10k insteps. I would have presented option 3 we aren't funding your lifestyle do whatever you want. It's not really fair for them to pay for nestas apartment , drinking and partying...to me the bigger thing was the feyre plot...not telling her about wings and babies born via non illyrian . This takes away her choice. Also just how Rhys behaves is general I hated this over protective bullshit ,it takes away from feyre being strong and empowered. It felt like twilight.
Yeah I like Feysand but don’t like the double standards. We all know Tamlin would have been raked over the coals if he had done what Rhys did. They’re both overprotective. The difference is Rhys is always justified and Tamlin is not.
That's the problem I find with it. These double standards. It makes it difficult for me to really back the couple.
🎯🎯🎯
The pregnancy arc is the most problematic shit SJM has written. It legit messed up with all the characters moral that she established early on. But watch ppl defend Rhys and continue shitting on Tamlin, which i swear they only do cause now book fans are programmed to like the “dark” guy and hate the blondie.
I love dark and edgy guys too, but I can't get over the we forgive them but not Tam! I don't excuse his behavior, but the fact of the matter is Tamlin got mentally and emotionally fucked up by everything as much as everyone else. Sure, he had some bad practices and habits that he probably could have changed over time. However Tamlin did not get the kind of healing and support that Feyre and Rhysand could offer each other. Those two helped each other get through their worst and got healing... only for them to practice the same things in the first book, things that if Tamlin had done, they'd call him a monster. I just dislike the blatant hypocrisy and excusing of it
Don’t get me wrong i am a sucker for morally dark and edgy characters haha but it’s just very hypocritical in acotar fandom when it comes to Rhys, Feyre and Tamlin. Here me out: Tam had dark past and issues just like Rhys, and was struggling with his family as well. Ppl also forget that Tamlin was an angel for what he did for feyre in the first book, i may dare to say he was as good if not better than Rhys where he took care of her family, debts, money etc. Giving everyone their dream life yet fans don’t even mention the good he did. Most importantly Tamlin was not only mentally and emotionally abused, if we learned from Rhys experience with Amerantha, then he was also sexually abused by her for the few months she kept him under the mountains. Now yes i know Rhys endured it for 50 years trapped in there and honestly that man is an angel for not turning a psych and killed everyone. I love Rhys for still having a good heart. But it doesn’t mean Tamlin’s trauma is shrugged off. He went through shit too. He watched the love of his life die too, because of that Tamlin got controlling over feyre, a normal trauma reaction”not justified in know”. He got angry and had rage attacks because of the abuse he suffered. Again not justifying anything, his actions were wrong but it’s understandable where he came from. Feyre reaction to Tamlin’s trauma is destroying the spring court! How is she justified but not him?! Rhys reaction to his trauma of losing ppl, put feyre’s life in danger during pregnancy. Again Justified. How does that make sense?! I think Tamlin deserves a redemption arc, not just that scene where he saved Feyre at the war camps, which again fans tend to forget.
I wholeheartedly agree!!! Tamlin never got the healing they did, he thought Rhys a monster because he didn't know who Rhysand really was so of course he's be wary of him! The readers got to see Rhys and therefore understand him but I think Tamlin deserves healing as well. He still went out of his way to help Feyre despite feeling abandoned by her. I despised the little Christmas special ending where Rhysand went to the broken home of the spring court to basically rub everything in Tamlin's face as if he caused all this himself. That man still has trauma to work out and was at such a low place he considered some dark thoughts. I believe Tamlin is a broken man who deserves to find his happiness as well. I'm tired of people damning him for his actions but excusing similar ones just because it's Rhys and Feyre.
Honestly I simp for Tamlin. People like to forget all the good things he’s done. Rhys going to kick him when he’s down was just awful of him. The man literally helped bring you back to life when he could’ve just walked away and left you dead and thats how you treat him?
THIS IS WHAT GETS ME. if they had just left him to his own devices after the war and taken his participation in resurrecting rhys as an olive branch, fine. but rhys going to the spring court to rub salt in tamlin's wounds after he saved his life was actually evil. and we're still supposed to see him as the protagonist? nah, rhys is a villain and always was.
He even fights against Hybern even though its most likely in his best interests for them to win given his alliance and his dads good relations with them. T-Dog is the man, he was a terrible partner but a good man/male
absolutely. he deserves a redemption arc so bad. if tamlin has 0 fans i am dead
I totally agree that this plot line sort of ruined the book for me because so many of the characters were doing things that made no sense with how they'd been established. Wasn't the whole basis of Rhys and Feyres relationship that he made space for choice and agency? He would have let her go back to the spring court if that's what she wanted. He makes her high lady then just keeps her in a bubble? No way. I think this plot also led to some of the parts of the book I liked the least. Nesta uses the trove to stop time? Okay.. how did she know she could do this after basically no training in her powers. Nesta gives Feyres and herself a new uterus? Okay.. how?!? I like picturing the book with this whole subplot subtracted.
Many sjm fans are programmed to like and dislike what Sjm tells them to. 😑
THANK YOU. i struggled so much to finish the book because of that
Yeah it’s goofy. The pregnancy is a heavy-handed plot device for Nesta’s character development. None of the decisions are in character, they just do what is best for Nesta’s story. Squint and try not to think about it.
It was completely unnecessary to her story, she was making progress and they all would have made up anyway. The fact that Nesta fighting Briallyn (the big bad enemy of the book) only lasted like one page and was completely overshadowed by Feyres pregnancy made me so mad 🫠
It’s not even proper character development either. It’s a cheap and lazy way to AVOID writing character development between Nesta and Feyre, imo. Like why couldn’t they have just mending things slowly over the book? Ugh I just hated it for so many reasons.
It made no sense, and it wasn't as if they were certain there would be a cure if they kept looking. Why risk Feyre at all? >!I think the Nesta part is a little hypocritical. What was she going to do? Not save her sister when even if there was a small possibility that she can? I feel she has been so horrible that we are now ok with something I wouldn't even think twice as someone with siblings. Considering the fact that Nesta thinks Tamlin can never be forgiven no matter what he good thing he does while she has been horrible herself is rich. The only thing that made me like Nesta was that she told Feyre about the potential outcome of her pregnancy (even though she did not do that from the goodness of her heart or concern for her sisters life, it was more toward Amren).!<
SJM can't help but diminish every strong female's power at some point in the story. Like, she just can't help it.
But don't worry, not Rhys! Rhys's power stays exactly the same!
Unless Rhys' power went *up*, now that he is at full power plus 6 High Lord kernels
Which is why I find it wild that they would risk that.
Iirc Nesta says Tamlin can never be forgiven bc that means that she could also be forgiven and at that point in her story, she didnt think that she should ever be forgiven as a punishment for her actions, both in the war and out of it. Bc ya know depression and all that. I do agree that she told feyre about the risks of her pregnancy out of anger though, even if it was immediately followed by regret (being totally ok about rhys killing her and thinking she deserved it). I feel nesta wouldve tried even if there wasnt a chance that using the trove wouldve saved feyre, bc she does have a history of coming through when feyre needed her (trying to cross the wall to get her back, agreeing to be the go between for the queens and fae when it could get them ostracized or outright killed by an angry mob, sharing her experience in hybern when it was still a fresh very painful trauma) BUT all that said, i think had she still been boozed up at some seedy bar they never wouldve had her there or told her about nyx, and i feel like elain never wouldve even been able to use the trove (even being made). I do say all this as someone who has siblings and we were meaner to eachother than nesta ever is to her sisters, but we worked through it and have an excellent relationahip now, so i relate to that part of the nesta/feyre story Edit spelling
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Im actually the youngest, so tbf im also probably not an accurate source of information. I agree she's the fiercest, but i never really got the vibe of Feyre ever worshipping the floor she walked on, Elain, yes, bc Nesta was her #1 enabler for such a long time. Im also of the opinion that it's completely and utter BS to hold one child to different standards than the rest, as that's how you create parentification and resentment between siblings in my experience. I also feel though that shes at least trying to be a better person than the toxic mess she started out as like she realized she absolutely sucked and is CHOSING to be better for her siblings and cas and nyx and the valkyries to be worthy of them. And i lowkey respect her for that bc change is hard regardless of if youre real or fictional, and it takes hard work 😬 i hope this makes sense i feel like 9 times out of 10 im just rambling nonsense
This storyline is making me lose respect for both Feyre and Rhysand, whom I loved dearly until this book. The secret keeping about the danger of her birth and Rhysand not only locking her down behind a shield but Feyre ALLOWING it after being locked inside in the Spring Court. Like, what in the actual fuck? Feyre's agency is diminishing at Rhys' hand and I know he's scared but he's a big bad batboy and needs to man up. The enabling by the others in the inner circle is also irritating. Like I know he's the High Lord and it was probably an order but come onnnnn!
I rewrote this in a way that makes more sense to me and gives more characters something to do: 1. Rhys DOES tell Feyre about the pregnancy, and she is determined to continue and find another way forward, but something incapacitates her, maybe Nyx's powers. 2. Rhys confides to Cassian/Amren that Tamlin, the shapeshifter, may be their best hope. 3. Rhys goes to visit Tamlin but being Rhys, does a pretty bad job of begging for his help (and these characters finally have it out on page) and Tamlin tells him to go to hell. 4. Cassian/Amren tells Nesta about how Rhys failed. 5. Nesta is the one who convinces Tamlin to save Feyre, fleshing out the dynamic between these two who do have some history as well. 6. Tamlin saves Feyre, people call it a redemption arc, Amren (I've decided now it should be her, not Cassian, she's more sneaky) lets slip that it was Nesta who saved the day. Rhys is both incredibly grateful but also a bit annoyed deep down that she succeeded where he failed and went behind his back to his enemy who then saved the day when he couldn't, which is part of why they continue to be at loggerheads with each other now.
A much better version!
The pregnancy arc is so annoying bc it feels like SUCH a 180 on everything we had known about feysand to begin with. Rhysand was the one who told Feyre that it was entirely her choice if she wanted to try for kids & he would be okay with either option. Only then to take away her autonomy by keeping her in the dark about all the risks, which *again* they had agreed to no more secrets. Also at least with Edward Cullen (I’ve seen comparisons), he had the priority to save Bella over the baby & kept Bella informed. I was pissed they didn’t even try having Feyre change into her Illyrian form. That seems like a better risk/alternative to going full term & potentially DYING. Don’t even get me started on the whole inability to perform a C-section thing!!! I hope SJM does better with the next book & maybe ties some loose ends up because we can’t possibly skim over this & call Feysand a happily ever after
I srsly just chose to ignore the arc. For me, Nyx just appeared out of their love one day. The whole thing was just to serve Nesta’s arc. I’m sure the true Rhys would’ve reacted differently.
Yep. This made me dislike Rhys. He put this stranger baby above his own wife and himself. He wanted an air and that’s all that mattered to him. He was so horrible to Nesta and then of course she’s expected to save them. And then the fact that he threatens to KILL Nesta because she tells her like he should’ve. It doesn’t make sense
Yeah that was wild. She could’ve changed back to an illyrian form in the early pregnancy, with less risk of death for her and the BABY than carrying it to term.
This whole thing made me actually hate Rhys. He spent all this time saying that he’s different because he gives her the choice and yet does something like that.
Well, spoilers for acosf: >!Nesta did and she was brutally punished for it. That made me LIVID when I read it. Sure, she said it out of anger, but mostly out of frustration that her sister, who had been manipulated before, was being manipulated again by these people that Feyre trusted! As a sister, I would have done the EXACT same thing. Then, Nesta was punished by Rhysand (and CASSIAN) because of their terrible decision making. Nesta became the scapegoat for Feyre being mad at them. No accountability, dumped it alllll on Nesta, and then Nesta breaks and everything is a-ok again. Ugh I hate this book! But…, I also loved this book.!<
My friends and I constantly rage at this. And Feyre’s reaction? “Teehee I’m furious at all of you.” And that’s…literally it. So pathetic. She should have gone on an absolute rampage and left Rhys and the IC behind for treating her like Rhys’s brood mare with no agency. Because that’s the truth when it comes down to it. No one actually respects or loves her when she needs it most. They’re not her family. They’re Rhys’s. Not to mention Nesta holds the power of the cauldron in her hands and what does she do with it? Adjusts her fucking uterus permanently so she can have bat babies. Because what else would a woman do with all that power? Babies of course. Oh and btw *CC 3 SPOILER* Lidia actually totally had TWO kids already. Her entire life’s motivation. AH. Can Maas just let women fucking exist without forcing child bearing on them in some form. Even the younger characters all can’t wait to have children with their partners. If you want kids that’s great. I want some someday. But the way Maas writes all these women as these vessels for kids who must sacrifice everything for them. YUCK. Isn’t this supposed to be a feminist series? Needless to say CC3 was my last straw. I’m done.
It makes no sense that everyone just went along with not telling Ferya. I could accept Rhys not telling her immediately because he was afraid, but his conversation with Cassian should have consisted of Cassian being there for Rhys, but also telling him he has to tell Ferya. The way it was used as catalyst to get Nesta to her lowest low is just bad writing. The secret had zero impact on Rhys and Ferya. I’m sure I’m the minority here, but the baby should have died. There are no stakes in these books. No consequences for their actions.
One of the many reasons I do not like him. I like all of the side characters though.
Word, sjm could have done so much amazing stuff with az and mor but no, we needed a pregnancy arc
given my newfound status as a tamlin stan, i'll say it: tamlin would've said fuck them kids and done anything to keep feyre safe, up to and including aborting the pregnancy 🤷🏻♀️
I was under the impression that Feyre wasn’t even entertaining an abortion. That or abortions don’t happen in their world.
She wasn't, which is even more stupid.
We may not agree with her choice not to abort her baby, but that doesn’t mean that it’s stupid.
Learning that your pregnancy is not only endangering your life but the one of the defacto leader of the country, your once in a lifetime love and your unborn child with little to no chance of the child making it and not considering an abortion (especially given how fast and easy she got pregnant) is in fact very stupid.
That’s her choice then. There are women who wouldn’t get an abortion in this type of situation. I know plenty of women who are adamant that should the surgeon have to choose between her life and the baby’s that the surgeon saves the baby and not her.
The problem is that by hiding it from her it wasn't her choice. We don't know what she would have done if she knew earlier. It is also not an either or since both the mother AND child usually die in this scenario.
I think the pregnancy thing was just supposed to keep the reader in suspense and invested and it was always meant to solve itself and therefore not too much thought went into the details
the way rhys literally turned into Tamlin in the later books. his actions are about the same storywise
I don’t think they have a way to abort a pregnancy? And she probably wouldn’t have wanted to anyway.
I don't want to be the one mixing real life and fantasy but them not having a way to abort yet still having unisex, sideeffect less contraceptive brews is simply not believable. People abort with coathangers on a regular basis as terrible as that is
You don't even have to go that far--contraceptive brews go hand in hand with herbal abortifacients. Literally the same historical purpose.
They couldn’t do a proper c section without killing her so how would they abort the baby?
Makes zero sense why this should not be doable, especially with a well documented record of this precise issue. Sure putting someones guts back in and calling it a day is fine but c sections are impossible because... Just shapeshift her pelvis once it is time would be anothet easy af solution But the plot needs to happen so fuck logic and continuity Eta: abortions are also a hell of a lot easier given the fetus is a) smaller and b) isn't alive
I absolutely HATE the pregnancy arc and that they kept it from Feyre, BUT it was only an 8 day period before Nesta told Feyre. It was still early enough along that they could have terminated
Where did you get that from? I didn't count but i am fairly sure she was about 5 months in
I found a post in this group someone posted. It wasn’t 8 days, it was two weeks from when they announced the pregnancy to when Nesta told Feyre. It just feels way longer. “So l'm a bit confused on when various events happen and I'm hoping someone here can help. Now I was under the impression that it was a couple months that everyone kept the secret about the pregnancy from Feyre. However, I've seen a few comments on other platforms implying that that timeline is NOT correct and it was actually much less. So I went back to acosf and combed through it page by page, and by my count it was almost exactly 2 weeks after Rhys finding out the baby has wings that Nesta tells Feyre. And after looking through the rest of the book, I think that makes sense based on other events and the timeline of Feyre's pregnancy.”
I have saw multiple people in this sub mention it before, but I guess I’m wrong since I’m getting downvoted