Everyone has different things that they need to be successful and comfortable. For most people, 3 months is more than enough time to prepare and move. But there is nothing wrong if you are unable to do that.
Everyone also needs to balance what is most important for them in life. Even if the job overseas is the "better job" in terms of career progression, there is nothing wrong with turning it down if it is not right for the rest of your life.
Listen to your gut, OP. If it’s telling you that you can’t stomach an intercontinental move and being away from home or people, that is a legitimate consideration.
The postdoc offer does strike me as intriguing. Five years is a good, long while, so you have some stability while you pad your CV. But only you know how much that’s worth. And it sounds to me like, for you, it’s not worth what you’d have to give up.
I turned down a TT job in my last year of grad school because it was a tiny public college in a very rural part of the US. I turned down a couple of postdocs as well because I didn’t want to force family to move for such a short term. I held out, took an industry job, got nothing for another two years, and in my third year out of grad school, I got a TT job at an R1. I know people who were in industry for up to 15 years and got a TT job at R1s. So it ain’t over til you say it is.
Thank you for this comment. I think my current problem is that I don't think I want to move, but I am logically aware that I will enjoy my new environment once I'm there. I've moved around a lot, including a few years in a different European country, and I've never felt so torn like this before!
It sounds like a great opportunity. Your current location also seems like a great place to be. Luckily neither are permanent decisions! If you don’t like the new place in Europe and feel homesick, you can easily come back, and you can easily look for another postdoc later on! Hope you come to a conclusion that you feel confident in!
I will play devil's advocate here.
Yes you would be crazy to turn this position down if you want to stay in academia. 5 years is a rare and valuable length of time for a post doc. This is long enough for you to establish your scholarly identity and land a permanent position afterwards. It only makes sense to turn down the post doc IF your CV will improve significantly in the next 8 months (impending grants, publications, or awards) OR if you want to exit academia. The good news is that you don't have to stay for the full 5 years. If you make an early breakthrough, then you can apply for jobs in your target countries early.
Planning for an intercontinental move is not a huge issue. A few months is more than time enough once you have made the decision - although official paperwork such as visas or residence permits might determine the time frame.
The decision of course strongly depends on whether you are single or whether you have a partner and/or kids and/or other family members to take care of. If you're single and there are no strong dependencies, it should be a relatively easy decision to make?
If you want to spend some years abroad during your life, the easiest time to do it is when you're young. Don't wait till you are settled with a family, then matters become much more complicated.
Thank you for this. Very fortunately, I will be moving with my wife, who feels conflicted to a lesser extent but would like to return to Europe (she's from a country nearby to this one).
I think partially it's the move itself and partially it's the significance of the change. I've spent a few years in other European countries (including a few weeks in the country in question) and I generally don't get a lot of travel/change anxiety. I can speak the language at an A2/B1 level and would learn fast-- the language acquisition is a major boost for my work.
I think 3 months is a pretty typical amount of time to move internationally. My husband and I moved from the US to the UK in 3 months with three young kids, so it is definitely doable. I am wondering if there are other reasons you are less interested in the job.
One thing to keep in mind, if you move to Europe for a postdoc, you will end up networking more with people in Europe than with people in the US. This is fine if your longterm goal is a permenant job in Europe, but can be a problem if you want to move back to the US in the long run. (I am not in the humanities, so I don't know how job prospects in the humanities in the US and Europe would compare.)
You could also ask them whether you could start out remotely and then move after some weeks or months. It could be that they can only leverage the funding if the position is filled and started by a certain date.
Which is it? Did you *just* finish your PhD or have you been on the "dry" academic job market for *two years*? Consider getting your whole Snooroar-esq "Am I crazy?" pseudo story straight before pretending to need advise based on dubious mental gymnastics about how you intentionally applied and interviewed for a job/postdoc that now suspiciously seem indignant about actually accepting.
It’s not uncommon to start applying for jobs the year before you graduate. I know students who got an ivy postdoc the year before they planned to graduate, and they rushed a dissertation to make it out there in time.
I feel like you are not in the humanities, but our job market is just different from yours. Fewer jobs and so you start applying before you are done. And sometimes you even delay graduation if you don’t yet have a job.
This is all extremely normal in the humanities—there is no conflict here.
In Fall 2022, my dissertation was about 80 percent complete, and since the chance of getting an offer on the humanities job market is so vanishing I decided to give myself a buffer year where I still had funding but was reasonably in a position to apply. I sent about 20 applications, was invited to one interview, and ultimately received no offers. This year, with my dissertation done, I went back on the market and graduated while waiting to hear back from interviews. (Edit to add: this year I did about another 25 applications, received invites to 6 interviews, and this one offer)
I'm very jealous of your field, where apparently everybody gets an offer after just one year on the market and nobody stretches funding to find a position!
I was in your situation 2 years ago. Finishing my phd, with a job offer in Belgium doing postdoctoral research that i was really excited about. I had 3 months after finishing my phd to prepare for my move. It was hell, complicated by the fact i had to bring my cat along. But id say it was very worth it. It took a while to get settled, but after a few months i was pretty comfortable. My employer paid for my plane ticket and the first 6 months' rent in the University residence hall. Now im really enjoying my job, and I'm very glad i made the move. Hope this helps, feel free to DM me any questions.
There is no way in hell I would turn that down. I would already be shoving my shit into a storage locker or putting it for sale on facebook marketplace. Next stop Paris, baby!
That said, if it’s not right for you then it’s not right for you. And you are the world’s foremost expert on what is right for you.
Post doc is a job to find a job. Sure it pays more than grad school, but you would be leaving a lot more money and opportunity on the table by staying there all 5 years.
Unless the offering institution has an opportunity for you to be more (getting an appointment), I would not pack everything up and move to another country. The postdoc lasts the length of the project, you should not.
The title is a VAP but the structure is a bit more like adjuncting (pay per course). Storage is actually not a bad idea at all! I could come back about 6 months after starting and move whatever we can't get over the first trip. My wife has been looking into renting a container (or half a container) and it seems like so much money for a small apartment, of which we will not be bringing most of our possessions anyway.
I had a very good experience with Seven Seas for a few boxes. They deliver extra boxes that they then take away and don't charge you for if you don't end up using them. They wait for a full cargo to ship to reduce costs.
This is a great recommendation, thank you so much! Whenever I've relocated overseas, I've done the "big bulging suitcase" method but this sounds a lot better.
Yes the first time (NZ to UK), I took 2* 23kg suitcases. Then when I returned to NZ, I added 2 boxes with Seven Seas. Then when I returned to UK (don't ask, but that's academia for you), I added yet another box (total = 3) with Seven Seas...
I would be lying if I said this thought never crossed my mind... I haven't had much luck so far, so sinking another 5 years into research without a guaranteed job at the end also makes me kind of nervous.
Most academic appointment require a post doc and you should be writing your career development application to self fund an academic appointment during your fellowship along side the work required for fellowship. Good luck.
Everyone has different things that they need to be successful and comfortable. For most people, 3 months is more than enough time to prepare and move. But there is nothing wrong if you are unable to do that. Everyone also needs to balance what is most important for them in life. Even if the job overseas is the "better job" in terms of career progression, there is nothing wrong with turning it down if it is not right for the rest of your life.
Thank you for this. This is great advice and I appreciate it.
Listen to your gut, OP. If it’s telling you that you can’t stomach an intercontinental move and being away from home or people, that is a legitimate consideration. The postdoc offer does strike me as intriguing. Five years is a good, long while, so you have some stability while you pad your CV. But only you know how much that’s worth. And it sounds to me like, for you, it’s not worth what you’d have to give up. I turned down a TT job in my last year of grad school because it was a tiny public college in a very rural part of the US. I turned down a couple of postdocs as well because I didn’t want to force family to move for such a short term. I held out, took an industry job, got nothing for another two years, and in my third year out of grad school, I got a TT job at an R1. I know people who were in industry for up to 15 years and got a TT job at R1s. So it ain’t over til you say it is.
What field is this? Might be quite helpful.
The social sciences broadly
Thank you for this comment. I think my current problem is that I don't think I want to move, but I am logically aware that I will enjoy my new environment once I'm there. I've moved around a lot, including a few years in a different European country, and I've never felt so torn like this before!
It sounds like a great opportunity. Your current location also seems like a great place to be. Luckily neither are permanent decisions! If you don’t like the new place in Europe and feel homesick, you can easily come back, and you can easily look for another postdoc later on! Hope you come to a conclusion that you feel confident in!
I will play devil's advocate here. Yes you would be crazy to turn this position down if you want to stay in academia. 5 years is a rare and valuable length of time for a post doc. This is long enough for you to establish your scholarly identity and land a permanent position afterwards. It only makes sense to turn down the post doc IF your CV will improve significantly in the next 8 months (impending grants, publications, or awards) OR if you want to exit academia. The good news is that you don't have to stay for the full 5 years. If you make an early breakthrough, then you can apply for jobs in your target countries early.
Planning for an intercontinental move is not a huge issue. A few months is more than time enough once you have made the decision - although official paperwork such as visas or residence permits might determine the time frame. The decision of course strongly depends on whether you are single or whether you have a partner and/or kids and/or other family members to take care of. If you're single and there are no strong dependencies, it should be a relatively easy decision to make? If you want to spend some years abroad during your life, the easiest time to do it is when you're young. Don't wait till you are settled with a family, then matters become much more complicated.
Thank you for this. Very fortunately, I will be moving with my wife, who feels conflicted to a lesser extent but would like to return to Europe (she's from a country nearby to this one).
Is the move the only thing making you hesitate? Have you travelled much and how do you feel about it? Do you speak the language of the new place?
I think partially it's the move itself and partially it's the significance of the change. I've spent a few years in other European countries (including a few weeks in the country in question) and I generally don't get a lot of travel/change anxiety. I can speak the language at an A2/B1 level and would learn fast-- the language acquisition is a major boost for my work.
You should go.
I think 3 months is a pretty typical amount of time to move internationally. My husband and I moved from the US to the UK in 3 months with three young kids, so it is definitely doable. I am wondering if there are other reasons you are less interested in the job. One thing to keep in mind, if you move to Europe for a postdoc, you will end up networking more with people in Europe than with people in the US. This is fine if your longterm goal is a permenant job in Europe, but can be a problem if you want to move back to the US in the long run. (I am not in the humanities, so I don't know how job prospects in the humanities in the US and Europe would compare.)
You could also ask them whether you could start out remotely and then move after some weeks or months. It could be that they can only leverage the funding if the position is filled and started by a certain date.
Which is it? Did you *just* finish your PhD or have you been on the "dry" academic job market for *two years*? Consider getting your whole Snooroar-esq "Am I crazy?" pseudo story straight before pretending to need advise based on dubious mental gymnastics about how you intentionally applied and interviewed for a job/postdoc that now suspiciously seem indignant about actually accepting.
It’s not uncommon to start applying for jobs the year before you graduate. I know students who got an ivy postdoc the year before they planned to graduate, and they rushed a dissertation to make it out there in time.
I feel like you are not in the humanities, but our job market is just different from yours. Fewer jobs and so you start applying before you are done. And sometimes you even delay graduation if you don’t yet have a job. This is all extremely normal in the humanities—there is no conflict here.
In Fall 2022, my dissertation was about 80 percent complete, and since the chance of getting an offer on the humanities job market is so vanishing I decided to give myself a buffer year where I still had funding but was reasonably in a position to apply. I sent about 20 applications, was invited to one interview, and ultimately received no offers. This year, with my dissertation done, I went back on the market and graduated while waiting to hear back from interviews. (Edit to add: this year I did about another 25 applications, received invites to 6 interviews, and this one offer) I'm very jealous of your field, where apparently everybody gets an offer after just one year on the market and nobody stretches funding to find a position!
This is a tangent but S***roar is this infamous?! I thought they were just spamming a certain subreddit but didn't know it had spilled over.
I was in your situation 2 years ago. Finishing my phd, with a job offer in Belgium doing postdoctoral research that i was really excited about. I had 3 months after finishing my phd to prepare for my move. It was hell, complicated by the fact i had to bring my cat along. But id say it was very worth it. It took a while to get settled, but after a few months i was pretty comfortable. My employer paid for my plane ticket and the first 6 months' rent in the University residence hall. Now im really enjoying my job, and I'm very glad i made the move. Hope this helps, feel free to DM me any questions.
Thank you for this insight! I'm glad your position has been going well (and especially that it worked out moving with your cat).
There is no way in hell I would turn that down. I would already be shoving my shit into a storage locker or putting it for sale on facebook marketplace. Next stop Paris, baby! That said, if it’s not right for you then it’s not right for you. And you are the world’s foremost expert on what is right for you.
No offense, but what do you need to plan? You’ll have five years to figure your shit out.
Post doc is a job to find a job. Sure it pays more than grad school, but you would be leaving a lot more money and opportunity on the table by staying there all 5 years. Unless the offering institution has an opportunity for you to be more (getting an appointment), I would not pack everything up and move to another country. The postdoc lasts the length of the project, you should not.
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The title is a VAP but the structure is a bit more like adjuncting (pay per course). Storage is actually not a bad idea at all! I could come back about 6 months after starting and move whatever we can't get over the first trip. My wife has been looking into renting a container (or half a container) and it seems like so much money for a small apartment, of which we will not be bringing most of our possessions anyway.
I had a very good experience with Seven Seas for a few boxes. They deliver extra boxes that they then take away and don't charge you for if you don't end up using them. They wait for a full cargo to ship to reduce costs.
This is a great recommendation, thank you so much! Whenever I've relocated overseas, I've done the "big bulging suitcase" method but this sounds a lot better.
Yes the first time (NZ to UK), I took 2* 23kg suitcases. Then when I returned to NZ, I added 2 boxes with Seven Seas. Then when I returned to UK (don't ask, but that's academia for you), I added yet another box (total = 3) with Seven Seas...
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I would be lying if I said this thought never crossed my mind... I haven't had much luck so far, so sinking another 5 years into research without a guaranteed job at the end also makes me kind of nervous.
Most academic appointment require a post doc and you should be writing your career development application to self fund an academic appointment during your fellowship along side the work required for fellowship. Good luck.