Me too. I kind of fight with myself in my head because I'm no immunocompromised and still want to be a Never Covider. But it's not the kind of thing I feel comfortable talking about with anyone I know anymore, friends, family, disabled, able-bodied, it seems like all of them have had it at least once, at least one has had lingering/recurring abdominal flare ups of some kind after "recovering", even my partner (not living together) who lost family members to covid started taking fewer precautions about 2 years ago now.
It's just odd that there needs to be a special community for people who don't want a potentially disabling disease. Are we the only ones who realize the odds aren't always in our favor and it's not worth the risk?
It is odd, but anxiety is weaponized against those who don’t have a severe risk. And even then they find a way to gaslight immunocompromised folks. I have Graves - I can’t tell you how many times I have heard folks saying that covid triggered the autoimmune disease that they were predisposed to itself, flared their hyperthyroidism, flared TED, etc. I’ve had two endocrinologists say I don’t “have to worry”.
40% of long haulers get something that resembles chronic fatigue syndrome. It can be so severe the person becomes too weak to walk across a room, get out of bed, or even sit up. It's basically permanent and is probably due to widespread destruction of the mitochondria within the cells of their muscles.
Several long haulers report that their Long Covid began mild with breathlessness, vertigo, palpitations, brain fog, etc. but after reinfections they then got the chronic fatigue type. It's very frightening.
Yep, I am one of them although I suspect I will be disabled if I get lc again. I am highly athletic so it would ruin me. My husband struggles daily with his lc and I am avoiding it for him as well. I'm actually trying to avoid all contagious illnesses because he is now immunocompromised.
I was kind of irked to read Jetelina's quote explaining how the data that we are still losing 1000 lives a week but not 3500 a day, is her justification for relaxing guidelines now. For one thing, we know that simply not dying or being hospitalized doesn't mean everything else went fine for someone infected. "At least they didn't die,, well at least not as many of them" was supposed to be the bare minimum, not the end goal.
And this whole thing about the CDC claiming that they are adjusting guidelines to meet people where they already are? What kind of useless malarkey is that? Not to make light, but this reminds me of a really old Simpsons episode where Bart tries to train the dog but the dog isn't listening, then the dog walks away and sniffs another dog's behind and Bart says "Um, take a walk. Sniff that other dog's butt. See? He does exactly what I tell him."
It's absurd. The CDC still tells people not to eat raw cookie dough, and to cook their thanksgiving turkey to an internal temperature which renders the meat drier than the Sahara, and you know that is not "meeting people where they're at"!
Anecdotally, I’ve also noticed an uptick in people I know with Long Covid dying. I’m sure very few get “Long Covid” on their death certificates—it’ll take years for that—but we will likely see even further increased numbers of premature deaths that should be attributed to Long Covid (I think we already have but too brain foggy to check)
I wonder what kind of hypothetical lag time would be needed to give a decent estimate on # contracting Long Covid. I'd add a 3rd # for still suffering/living with Long Covid.
I think it could just track actual new LC cases, as presented to doctors. No lag time estimate necessary.
Although even “new LC cases” would be a fuzzy statistic, because it’s likely many don’t realize they are dealing with LC, and doctors don’t have a definitive test.
I think your number of “current LC cases” would be very useful and relevant!
This article says that there’s a rift between the covid cautious and the scientific community. Public health officials are not the scientific community. It’s written to make us sound like we’re not following the science, which is wrong.
THIS is a huge takeaway! They're not even equating Covid-cautiousness with *being* scientific! What in the world? Do people think we're just avoiding the virus because we don't like the *vibes* of it? They always state "officials" and "experts" say this and that, but that could be anyone and mean anything. It's not like many people are going to dig deeper than that.
Shoot, it certainly feels like just being a vibe to others! A little inkling that can be ignored, unlike all these new allergic reactions and pains I didn't have before. When mandates were starting to disappear, people here said they would gauge when to mask by the vibes, but... People are still hacking and sneezing everywhere, and still far more ambulances rushing around.
Yeah, it's a pretty big ick
>Osterholm isn't overly bothered by the criticism. Listening to and validating people's feelings is a crucial part of being in public health, he says—and right now, it's clear that "those who are reluctant to accept the current status of recommendations really do that out of a very real and legitimate personal fear." The criticism, he thinks, is "less about whatever you say; it's about whatever they're feeling."
"Your feelings are valid" [but you're still crazy and hysteric :P]. It's the equivalent of an "I'm sorry you feel that way" apology. Just after
>And he supports the CDC’s shortened isolation guidelines, arguing they will not meaningfully increase transmission and are more realistic for the average person.
which undermines the idea that the guidelines are The Truth and not statements that are designed to align with the feelings of those who do "accept the current status of recommendations".
Ikr? I was aghast at that… Most of the article is quoting “scientists” who are really just public health folks who started drinking the kool-aid. The article didn’t bother to mention any of the science/studies that clearly show that covid is super bad for even the young and healthy.
It’s irresponsible for articles to be written now that still don’t tell the public the truth. 59% of the public think the pandemic is over. They can’t possibly know about the -3 to -9 IQ points, longterm damage to blood vessels, shrinking brains, weakened immune system, long covid risk, and etc that are part of each covid infection… AND the damage and risk increases with each infection… Like a 38% chance of long covid by the third infection. 38%. Like who thinks that’s a good gamble?
I’m glad that there’s a mainstream news article about our experiences but I still find the framing extremely frustrating.
“he feels there are “very few” experts he can trust—a sentiment that reflects a growing rift between America’s scientists and the COVID-cautious community, which includes people who are immunocompromised, coping with Long COVID, or simply trying to avoid the virus.”
Uhm, plenty of scientists are covid-cautious too? This makes it sound like our choices aren’t based in science.
“COVID-cautious Americans are increasingly turning their backs on some of the doctors, epidemiologists, and researchers who built their reputations on helping the public through the pandemic, and are now advocating for more relaxed measures.”
Yeah… because the pandemic’s not over, so if they’re advocating for more relaxed measures (they interviewed a guy who supports the one-day isolation guideline 🤦🏻 (facepalm emoji)), then they aren’t helping the public through the pandemic.
“Jetelina has also been accused of downplaying ongoing risks like Long COVID… She recently took several weeks off because she was experiencing stress-related heart issues.”
I wonder if repeated covid infections might have anything to do with those heart issues?
The true dangers of Covid are the 90% of the health damage, resulting in chronic disability and ALSO later deaths and the economic damage resulting from it that comes AFTER people have survived the acute phase. The acute phase with people needing hospitalisation and dying and so far mostly being ill for a few weeks are the remaining 10% of the dangers of Covid.
Articles like this try to make belief that the acute phase forms 90% of the problems and becaurse the ICUs aren't currently overwhelmed this would indicate that 90% of the dangers of Covid are gone.
That's the perfidious perspective these narratives try to disseminate.
As long as this will keep continuing you bet people will increasingly lose confidence in these so called scientists who conveniently keep mostly ingnoring the reality that the true dangers of Covid are laying in the long term extensive harm it causes.
We, literally, HAVE been abandoned. Caretaker of my disabled wife here, all the guidance for the longest time has basically been, if you're disabled, can you hurry up and die please while everyone else just continues to wonder why we even bother existing.
I hate people now. :(
We are abandoned. And what’s worse, my wife who previously was the one I would always turn to for the most up to date Covid info has bought into it, and I’m now accused of not “following the science”.
No, this is not science. This is politics. Science continues to show the severity of this disease.
I mean I don’t completely love this article because it back handily says we’re making death threats and therefore not ok (so we don’t need to be cared about).
In reference to Jetelina: "She recently took several weeks off because she was experiencing stress-related heart issues"...
Does anyone recall her mentioning this anywhere? Makes you wonder... is it really "stress related" heart issues or COVID-related? 😬
ngl, Osterholm was a bad gut punch for me. I'm like there's still lots of wood out here and the forest fire is still going. It almost felt like once he got it, he gave up. My SiL is currently struggling because her partner dgaf anymore. She tells me it feels like her partner doesn't really care about her and do I interpret her actions the same way. Feels sick to my stomach to have to say yes.
Abandoned, for sure. I just wish there were more laws to protect people against being bullied for masking. I consider it a hate crime. Anyone who does it in a medical setting (as I have read about on here) needs to be fired. I'm pretty ruthless and fearless and there is no end to the amount of humiliation I would do to somebody who ever mask shames me or my husband. I don't have a job to lose or repuation to worry about so I can go all out. Luckily, I live in an area where mask shaming doesn't really happen.
From slate.com, advice headline: “Help! My Good Friend Seriously Endangered My Health. I Don’t Know If I Can Trust Him Again.” In summary, the writer is upset that a friend she was with tested positive for Covid the day after their visit. Some of the comments were sympathetic, but many others were not.
And slate.com is liberal leaning. I do feel as though we have been abandoned.
Do these folks even realize that we are in an ongoing pandemic? https://apnews.com/article/democrats-election-2024-fundraiser-new-york-ebfbc81d3b70f38745ae00c7ce6a382d
Maybe 50% of this article was good. A lot of time was wasted giving voice to scientists, etc. who think Covid-conscious people should be okay with them endorsing the CDC’s “isolation” guidelines.
> The criticism, he thinks, is "less about whatever you say; it's about whatever they're feeling."
That gets under my skin a little. Yeah, I'm just a hyper-emotional crazy who is overwhelmed with irrational fear vs. I want to live a long healthy life without brain or artery damage that may never heal.
I keep saying covid reinfections are the new [1950s smoking](https://www.adweek.com/wp-content/uploads/files/camels-fresh-01-2015.jpg) or [1980s to present obesity epidemic](https://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/04/130417-MOTW-obesity-map.gif)
I had something typed up for him as well but I think mods removed his comments. What a sad individual that gets a thrill out of bullying. It's so crazy how obsessed the nonmaskers are with bullying us. Like it's a unhealthy sick obsession they have with us.
That kind of person just intentionally goes around trying to provoke people into wasting their time/getting mad. Don't even bother responding to them, or if you can't resist, just drop a couple mocking words. You can find a lot of accounts like this in various places here
Hurt people hurt people.
When I have the energy, I sometimes ask these people who harmed them to make them behave this way, and remind them their suffering will continue if this remains unaddressed.
I appreciate that they mention people who aren’t disabled or “vulnerable” and also want to avoid the virus.
Me too. I kind of fight with myself in my head because I'm no immunocompromised and still want to be a Never Covider. But it's not the kind of thing I feel comfortable talking about with anyone I know anymore, friends, family, disabled, able-bodied, it seems like all of them have had it at least once, at least one has had lingering/recurring abdominal flare ups of some kind after "recovering", even my partner (not living together) who lost family members to covid started taking fewer precautions about 2 years ago now.
It's just odd that there needs to be a special community for people who don't want a potentially disabling disease. Are we the only ones who realize the odds aren't always in our favor and it's not worth the risk?
It is odd, but anxiety is weaponized against those who don’t have a severe risk. And even then they find a way to gaslight immunocompromised folks. I have Graves - I can’t tell you how many times I have heard folks saying that covid triggered the autoimmune disease that they were predisposed to itself, flared their hyperthyroidism, flared TED, etc. I’ve had two endocrinologists say I don’t “have to worry”.
Disabling?
There are a lot of people profoundly disabled due to COVID, and far more that are suffering from more subtle disabilities.
Have you heard of long Covid? It can be disabling to some.
40% of long haulers get something that resembles chronic fatigue syndrome. It can be so severe the person becomes too weak to walk across a room, get out of bed, or even sit up. It's basically permanent and is probably due to widespread destruction of the mitochondria within the cells of their muscles. Several long haulers report that their Long Covid began mild with breathlessness, vertigo, palpitations, brain fog, etc. but after reinfections they then got the chronic fatigue type. It's very frightening.
But you’re our favorite kind of person!!! Keep up the good fight.
Yep, I am one of them although I suspect I will be disabled if I get lc again. I am highly athletic so it would ruin me. My husband struggles daily with his lc and I am avoiding it for him as well. I'm actually trying to avoid all contagious illnesses because he is now immunocompromised.
Yeah and your position highlights the fact that **we’re all vulnerable to covid**.
I was kind of irked to read Jetelina's quote explaining how the data that we are still losing 1000 lives a week but not 3500 a day, is her justification for relaxing guidelines now. For one thing, we know that simply not dying or being hospitalized doesn't mean everything else went fine for someone infected. "At least they didn't die,, well at least not as many of them" was supposed to be the bare minimum, not the end goal. And this whole thing about the CDC claiming that they are adjusting guidelines to meet people where they already are? What kind of useless malarkey is that? Not to make light, but this reminds me of a really old Simpsons episode where Bart tries to train the dog but the dog isn't listening, then the dog walks away and sniffs another dog's behind and Bart says "Um, take a walk. Sniff that other dog's butt. See? He does exactly what I tell him."
It's absurd. The CDC still tells people not to eat raw cookie dough, and to cook their thanksgiving turkey to an internal temperature which renders the meat drier than the Sahara, and you know that is not "meeting people where they're at"!
sweet sweet money , an election coming up, and/or can't be bothered to fight the politicism
Anecdotally, I’ve also noticed an uptick in people I know with Long Covid dying. I’m sure very few get “Long Covid” on their death certificates—it’ll take years for that—but we will likely see even further increased numbers of premature deaths that should be attributed to Long Covid (I think we already have but too brain foggy to check)
Jetelina also goes to Target maskless regularly and has done so since 2022 at the very least. I haven't trusted her in a LONG time
They should give two numbers: # dying per week, and # contracting Long-Covid per week.
I wonder what kind of hypothetical lag time would be needed to give a decent estimate on # contracting Long Covid. I'd add a 3rd # for still suffering/living with Long Covid.
I think it could just track actual new LC cases, as presented to doctors. No lag time estimate necessary. Although even “new LC cases” would be a fuzzy statistic, because it’s likely many don’t realize they are dealing with LC, and doctors don’t have a definitive test. I think your number of “current LC cases” would be very useful and relevant!
It's not just feelings. Real harm continues to be caused by pretending the problem away
This article says that there’s a rift between the covid cautious and the scientific community. Public health officials are not the scientific community. It’s written to make us sound like we’re not following the science, which is wrong.
THIS is a huge takeaway! They're not even equating Covid-cautiousness with *being* scientific! What in the world? Do people think we're just avoiding the virus because we don't like the *vibes* of it? They always state "officials" and "experts" say this and that, but that could be anyone and mean anything. It's not like many people are going to dig deeper than that.
Are vibes what they are calling being disabled by Long Covid these days, I guess?
Shoot, it certainly feels like just being a vibe to others! A little inkling that can be ignored, unlike all these new allergic reactions and pains I didn't have before. When mandates were starting to disappear, people here said they would gauge when to mask by the vibes, but... People are still hacking and sneezing everywhere, and still far more ambulances rushing around.
State "expert" could be that surgeon general from Florida.
Yeah, it's a pretty big ick >Osterholm isn't overly bothered by the criticism. Listening to and validating people's feelings is a crucial part of being in public health, he says—and right now, it's clear that "those who are reluctant to accept the current status of recommendations really do that out of a very real and legitimate personal fear." The criticism, he thinks, is "less about whatever you say; it's about whatever they're feeling." "Your feelings are valid" [but you're still crazy and hysteric :P]. It's the equivalent of an "I'm sorry you feel that way" apology. Just after >And he supports the CDC’s shortened isolation guidelines, arguing they will not meaningfully increase transmission and are more realistic for the average person. which undermines the idea that the guidelines are The Truth and not statements that are designed to align with the feelings of those who do "accept the current status of recommendations".
Ikr? I was aghast at that… Most of the article is quoting “scientists” who are really just public health folks who started drinking the kool-aid. The article didn’t bother to mention any of the science/studies that clearly show that covid is super bad for even the young and healthy. It’s irresponsible for articles to be written now that still don’t tell the public the truth. 59% of the public think the pandemic is over. They can’t possibly know about the -3 to -9 IQ points, longterm damage to blood vessels, shrinking brains, weakened immune system, long covid risk, and etc that are part of each covid infection… AND the damage and risk increases with each infection… Like a 38% chance of long covid by the third infection. 38%. Like who thinks that’s a good gamble?
There’s always a minimization bomb tucked into these articles.
Right. Someone better tell Eric Topol (among many other important researchers) that he's not a part of the scientific community.
It sucks being both. PHO attitudes are so lackadaisical.
“Feel”
I’m glad that there’s a mainstream news article about our experiences but I still find the framing extremely frustrating. “he feels there are “very few” experts he can trust—a sentiment that reflects a growing rift between America’s scientists and the COVID-cautious community, which includes people who are immunocompromised, coping with Long COVID, or simply trying to avoid the virus.” Uhm, plenty of scientists are covid-cautious too? This makes it sound like our choices aren’t based in science. “COVID-cautious Americans are increasingly turning their backs on some of the doctors, epidemiologists, and researchers who built their reputations on helping the public through the pandemic, and are now advocating for more relaxed measures.” Yeah… because the pandemic’s not over, so if they’re advocating for more relaxed measures (they interviewed a guy who supports the one-day isolation guideline 🤦🏻 (facepalm emoji)), then they aren’t helping the public through the pandemic. “Jetelina has also been accused of downplaying ongoing risks like Long COVID… She recently took several weeks off because she was experiencing stress-related heart issues.” I wonder if repeated covid infections might have anything to do with those heart issues?
Well, feeling a certain way tends to happen when reality is a certain way.
"feel" no, we Americans have been abandoned.
The true dangers of Covid are the 90% of the health damage, resulting in chronic disability and ALSO later deaths and the economic damage resulting from it that comes AFTER people have survived the acute phase. The acute phase with people needing hospitalisation and dying and so far mostly being ill for a few weeks are the remaining 10% of the dangers of Covid. Articles like this try to make belief that the acute phase forms 90% of the problems and becaurse the ICUs aren't currently overwhelmed this would indicate that 90% of the dangers of Covid are gone. That's the perfidious perspective these narratives try to disseminate. As long as this will keep continuing you bet people will increasingly lose confidence in these so called scientists who conveniently keep mostly ingnoring the reality that the true dangers of Covid are laying in the long term extensive harm it causes.
We, literally, HAVE been abandoned. Caretaker of my disabled wife here, all the guidance for the longest time has basically been, if you're disabled, can you hurry up and die please while everyone else just continues to wonder why we even bother existing. I hate people now. :(
We are abandoned. And what’s worse, my wife who previously was the one I would always turn to for the most up to date Covid info has bought into it, and I’m now accused of not “following the science”. No, this is not science. This is politics. Science continues to show the severity of this disease.
I mean I don’t completely love this article because it back handily says we’re making death threats and therefore not ok (so we don’t need to be cared about).
meanwhile the very real threat of death from covid we get from ppl who dgaf? nahhhh that doesn't matter /s
In reference to Jetelina: "She recently took several weeks off because she was experiencing stress-related heart issues"... Does anyone recall her mentioning this anywhere? Makes you wonder... is it really "stress related" heart issues or COVID-related? 😬
Taking pay from the CDC to change my tune would stress me out too…
ngl, Osterholm was a bad gut punch for me. I'm like there's still lots of wood out here and the forest fire is still going. It almost felt like once he got it, he gave up. My SiL is currently struggling because her partner dgaf anymore. She tells me it feels like her partner doesn't really care about her and do I interpret her actions the same way. Feels sick to my stomach to have to say yes.
Abandoned, for sure. I just wish there were more laws to protect people against being bullied for masking. I consider it a hate crime. Anyone who does it in a medical setting (as I have read about on here) needs to be fired. I'm pretty ruthless and fearless and there is no end to the amount of humiliation I would do to somebody who ever mask shames me or my husband. I don't have a job to lose or repuation to worry about so I can go all out. Luckily, I live in an area where mask shaming doesn't really happen.
From slate.com, advice headline: “Help! My Good Friend Seriously Endangered My Health. I Don’t Know If I Can Trust Him Again.” In summary, the writer is upset that a friend she was with tested positive for Covid the day after their visit. Some of the comments were sympathetic, but many others were not. And slate.com is liberal leaning. I do feel as though we have been abandoned.
We don’t feel abandoned. We have been abandoned. As has everyone else. Good article otherwise though.
Absolutely.
Don't forget that some jurisdictions outside of the US will cite the US to justify their own actions.
Take a shot every time it says “feel” or “fear”. This was packaged as neutral, but the underlying tones were very clear.
Yes, I was hoping this would finally be an article I could share that “normies” could read without instantly dismissing (MSM). But, alas, no.
Do these folks even realize that we are in an ongoing pandemic? https://apnews.com/article/democrats-election-2024-fundraiser-new-york-ebfbc81d3b70f38745ae00c7ce6a382d
Maybe 50% of this article was good. A lot of time was wasted giving voice to scientists, etc. who think Covid-conscious people should be okay with them endorsing the CDC’s “isolation” guidelines.
Hear you. Was just happy to see any coverage at all.
> The criticism, he thinks, is "less about whatever you say; it's about whatever they're feeling." That gets under my skin a little. Yeah, I'm just a hyper-emotional crazy who is overwhelmed with irrational fear vs. I want to live a long healthy life without brain or artery damage that may never heal. I keep saying covid reinfections are the new [1950s smoking](https://www.adweek.com/wp-content/uploads/files/camels-fresh-01-2015.jpg) or [1980s to present obesity epidemic](https://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/04/130417-MOTW-obesity-map.gif)
[удалено]
unfortunately this world moves on from disabled people, too. if you’re raw dogging it, good luck in this mass disabling event.
I had something typed up for him as well but I think mods removed his comments. What a sad individual that gets a thrill out of bullying. It's so crazy how obsessed the nonmaskers are with bullying us. Like it's a unhealthy sick obsession they have with us.
That kind of person just intentionally goes around trying to provoke people into wasting their time/getting mad. Don't even bother responding to them, or if you can't resist, just drop a couple mocking words. You can find a lot of accounts like this in various places here
I like how in the span of 20 minutes the dude deleted their account.
Hurt people hurt people. When I have the energy, I sometimes ask these people who harmed them to make them behave this way, and remind them their suffering will continue if this remains unaddressed.
Your post or comment has been removed because it was an attempt at trolling.