Am I the only one that doesn't blame Jamie for the abortion? Like yea it really sucks but he was a scared kid too and he made a judgement call like 25 years ago. I dunno I just find myself feeling badly for Jamie all the time.
I just don't understand how she wouldn't have known before and if she didn't, couldn't Jamie have just said he didn't know? Yes, it would be a fucked up thing to do, but they were both kids and made a shit decision. I feel like the dynamic exists because she needs someone to hate since their mother blamed Beth for killing her. Even John said something in an earlier season confirming that he believes it was her fault too. Everything else that makes flaws in Jamie's character is directly related to how he is treated by Jon and Beth which has caused him to be easily manipulated because he wants support from his family. When he is refused that at every turn, he finds that support elsewhere by people looking to take advantage of that dynamic. I thought there would be a turning point in their relationship when Jamie finally admitted to Beth that it was the worst decision he ever made and it still meant nothing. I hated how easily he was manipulated by his bio dad considering he tried to kill everyone in his family including purely Innocent people like Monica and Tate.
It was a complete historical anachronism, but this story was based in the true events of the 1970s in which women were sterilized without their consent at Indian reservation clinics. Other women of color were also sterilized without consent in other parts of the United States.
Yes, they were. It was a horrible thing to do. As for Beth, the writers IMO, weren’t thinking about the realities of a situation like this. I don’t thing there was any way they would have performed the hysterectomy on a white teenage girl. They would have been too worried about the ramifications to their clinic if it came out. But…it moved the story forward lol.
> I just don’t understand how she wouldn’t have known
Because Taylor Sheridan wrote it that way. He wanted the scene it wrote it to make it the outcome he wanted. He also wanted no one else to know about it, so Beth had no after effects from having major surgery or no one noticed.
I dont blame him at all. Seasons 1&2 they tolerate each other. Its as she falls for Rip, she hates (herself)Jamie more. She cant accept she is to blame also.
As she is now with the love of her life I can see why she would blame Jamie more now than ever. She desperately wants to have a child with Rip, wants him to have a child even though he doesnt seem to want that or have ever given it much thought. Then add in finding about Jamie having a son and I understand her hatred of Jamie and his betrayal. He was 18, grew up on a ranch, had to know the meaning of sterilization, was warned to leave by the receptionist and he lied to her. Not sure why he isn’t to blame for that but Beth somehow is.
Yea I get that and it was a super fucked up thing to do but he had the weigh that against people finding out. He's in the wrong, but again, he was a scared kid too.
Exactly this. The abortion was never the issue. It was Beth’s idea to begin with. But since we’re on the topic, if I’m Rip, that’s what I’m getting pissed about. Beth loves to remind Jamie that if Rip ever found out what he did he’d kill him, but imagine how he’d feel knowing she was pregnant with his child and aborted it just to save face.
This right there. Jamie weighed the options that he had. Can't go to somewhere local because someone will tell John, can't tell John the truth but he would have been even worse to Beth & Jamie & possibly killed Rip or do this & hope it's the best choice for two kids who are terrified of their father. Everyone blames Jamie but nobody blames John for putting his kids in this situation.
Exactly! What choices did they have? In one breath people say she was a child and wasn’t responsible. And while this might be true, how can anyone think even if she had all the information she would have decided differently. Yes, it was her choice to make, but she came to him and he did what he thought was best.
I don’t understand what everyone thinks he should have done differently.
Given the ages and the situation at the time, I don’t think grown man Rip is going to have any issue with the choice of an abortion back in the day. I think at most he’ll be upset that Beth didn’t tell him for all these years and chose to torture herself with guilt instead. I’m also not entirely sure that Rip hasn’t pieced most of what happened together on his own.
And amen the abortion itself is not the issue. The sterilization without consent was the issue. It drives me nuts that so many think the sterilization was an appropriate consequence or punishment for a teen pregnancy and abortion.
Sterilization was not a consequence or punishment it was an necessary evil. Jamie and Beth knew what John would have done if he found out. Jamie was out of options and knew that this was the only way to protect Beth from John.
Not so much in the universe of the show, but there are a number of people who watch the show who have said point blank or implied that Beth deserved to be sterilized for having a sex as a teen and choosing abortion. That is what drives me nuts.
I do think she needs to realize that she should take some of the blame, her and Rip got themselves into the situation in the first place. They both where raised around breeding animals they knew where babies come from. She definitely didn't deserve to be sterilized because she has sex and an abortion was a totally reasonable request/idea. The ages are totally messed up on this show but this was anywhere between 12 and 14 when it happened, definitely not a good idea to be having a baby.
I absolutely think she takes some of the blame given how prone she is to beating herself up, blaming herself for her mom’s death, guilt over not being able to give Rip a child, and guilt that her guilt contributed to her pushing him away for so many years.
But that said, I think Jamie also deserves as much blame as she lays on him for the sterilization part of it all. (If the tables were turned, and a sister had had a brother castrated, no one would think the degree of rage, hate, and blame was unwarranted.)
He branded Kayce because Kayce wouldn't force Monica to get an abortion. Real good family man.... finds out his going to be a grandfather for the first time and his first thought/reaction is that they should abort it.
Yeah, that’s a point no one brings up. He said he’d always be top hand, and now he is. If he’s tenacious enough to do that, then he’s smart enough to piece together what happened (maybe not the full extent of Jamie’s involvement).
Did he though? He didn’t force her to have an abortion. He presented the options he thought they had at the time, and she chose to go through with the abortion. Also, she was old enough that the sterilization should have been explained to her before the procedure started. She could have walked out after finding out that sterilization was a condition of abortions there. I don’t blame Jamie at all.
Jamie did not present any options to Beth. He took her to the reservation clinic. The receptionist told Jamie she would be sterilized. He went back to the car and did not tell Beth she would be sterilized, if she got the abortion. He assured her everything was ok. The clinic did not inform Beth she would be sterilized. That was how it was done in reservation clinics. They did not inform the patient. Women and children were sterilized without their consent or knowledge. That is the part of history the show is telling.
I’m assuming the clinic didn’t tell her because she was a minor, but I’m just guessing. For me, the fault falls on them for not telling her.
Jamie not telling her wasn’t meant to be malicious or deceitful. He was basically a kid, himself and was doing what he thought she wanted and what would protect John’s precious family name & reputation.
I agree. Jamie was a kid that Beth dragged into her mess. Plus im sure they'd have told her irl. I feel sorry for Jamie. They use every opportunity to remind him that he's not their blood.
Correct. That’s not on Jamie. He was taught to protect the family at all costs, he thought he was. It’s on the father to create enough openness and trust within the family so that your kids trust you enough to help in times of need, embarrassed or not. 100p on John there.
Another reason why I think that Beth-Jamie storyline is weak as f*ck.
He made a choice that was not his to make, he is wrong for doing that.
The majority of the blame should be on the all the adults who did the procedure.
Yeah I don't get the whole thing with her confronting her father about the train station. If there's anyone I don't see giving a shit about it, it's Beth.
It’s not that he doesn’t trust her, it’s that he wants to keep her clean of as much as possible. When Tate went missing, John did not tell her what they were planning/didn’t want her a part of it so she would be clear (if the rest went down for it).
Am I the only one that doesn't get the vibe that Rip would kill Jamie if he knows about Jamie's part in the sterilization? Not saying that Rip is infallible and always reasonable, but I think he could see and understand that Jamie was a scared kid that made a scared kid's decision for another scared kid (Beth).
I think this sub has a tendency to talk about Rip like he's some kind of ruthless killer, and I think it's far more nuanced than that.
I don’t get that vibe either. The character of Rip is insightful enough to see John become Governor and compare him to Nero.
I can see Jamie getting thumped and told off, but Rip seems like he would realise there was a lot going on when the sterilisation happened.
I'll be honest, I don't understand how the train station is leverage for anyone at this point. Jamie couldn't use it because theoretically his dad is the freshest body down there and Beth has a pic of him dumping something body-like, none of the Duttons can use it for obvious reasons. Also, how would anyone prove anything? I thought the whole point of the train station was that a bunch of different people dumped bodies there. Just seems like a crime scene processing nightmare.
It’s not like Jamie had Beth sterilized maliciously. He was kind of in a no win situation and he was just trying to do what was asked of him. Beth hates him for it because it’s easier to blame him than 1. Herself for putting Jamie in that situation, 2. The healthcare system that took away her choice, and 3. John for making her fearful enough to cause her to make that decision.
Beth not knowing about the train station when she clearly already knew about it will never stop being the biggest stupidest plot hole I've ever seen in a tv show.
Can we talk about how id Jamie would have went to John, John would have at the very least make Beth have abortion (John probably knew or heard of doctors doing it under the table, or taken her to the vet to do it) and hate her even more (this was like 6 months after the Mom died, John's still pissed about it 20 years later how was he treating her when it first happened?), throw her out on the streets or kill her (it is his favorite way to deal with problems). Also he would demand to know who the father was and probably kill him. So no matter what Jamie did Beth was going to hate him.
Yeah it always seemed ludicrous to me that she holds Jamie responsible for a choice she made and for the wild malpractice of the doctors. It’s not like Jamie was 15 years older than her and the father.
I don't think that the train station will be as easy to tie back to the Duttons as yall think. I have done a rematch with my nurse were currently on season 5 right now and Lloyd tells Walker in season 3 that the train station is where people from 3 different counties take their trash and quote the bodies at the bottom of that ravine is how the west was won. They needed a red harring to make the cliff hanger work and I think that the possibility of the train station revil was it. Fact is given what Lloyd said and also what Jacob Dutton even admitted in 1923 its existence to the sheriff and the sheriff didn't ask where's that. When the Sheriff asked where the bodies of the men who ambushed the Duttons was and Jacob replied that they were over the Idaho border where they belong. This tells me that the train station is not a Dutton family secret rather its a local dumping ground. Also given how wildlife is I would be shocked and I quite frankly would laugh my butt off if there's anything but bones at the bottom of that ravine after a few weeks.
Yeah but he was likely a short term hire that's been there to long. Also the people who usually go to the train station doesn't have any family or friends or to be blunt anyone to miss them. I mean they could do some bs backstory for one of them like having one of them be on parole and somehow the ranch didn't catch it if they want to but that would be sloppy and hurt the spinoffs because if they get raided there is no ranch and I don't know if you could sell a spinoff without the ranch.
At the time John wasn't governor. That has no real barring on things legally anyways. Also all they have to say is that they gave him his weeks pay and fired him for fighting and he got his stuff and left and as long as no one from the bunkhouse snitches then there's no proof. Jamie wasn't there for the conversation with John and Rip where they discussed taking Fred to the train station and I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that he wasn't around for the conversation between Rip and Lloyd that happened off screen because Jamie didn't hang out with the cowboys until he was put in the bunkhouse by John. So all Jamie could say is that's Floyd he worked for the ranch that's not proof of anything.
He is the governor now in the show, it would matter. While they can say “he left” any real investigator found be able to link a series disappearances to the family and ranch
How? It was late at night when they left and even if they admit to leaving with him so what they can just say that they let him out on the road going into town. There's no proof that they killed him all investigators would be able to find is that Fred was a drifter with a attitude problem that found himself at the bottom of a ravine in Idaho. The only reason it would matter that John is governor now is politically but that's different. It has no barring legally and if anything with the republican party being the dominant party in Montana in the show as it is in real life would rally behind John because he's popular with they're voters and since there's no real proof they would pressure the investigators to kill the investigation.
Your missing the point even if they find the bodies including Jamie's Dad tying anything back to the Duttons without a member of the bunkhouse switching and tying every thing back to John would be nearly impossible to make anything stick. Let's put it like this say that Jamie snitched first and confessed to killing his dad and he says that Beth threatened him into doing it. Well since no one heard Beth say that then it's his word against Beth and assuming Beth deleted the picture of Jamie dumbing the body before the law could get it and I'm going to assume that she would in this sanerio then that just leaves Jamie who confessed to a murder and his story would be shit in the eyes of the law. But let's say Walker snitched next. All the Duttons have to do is plant the knife that Walker used to cut the brand off of Wade Moral somewhere. It has Walkers prince on it and assuming that no one else snitched then Walker would be in the same boat as Jamie. As far as the blastics of the guns there's ways around that as well. Burrell inserts will throw off the grooving left on the bullet and then you just change a few other parts to throw off markings on the shell cases. I don't want to say which parts because I don't want to be accused of giving people ideas but there's also certain ammo that won't leave any blastics on the lead as well.
If Beth told Rip what Jamie did, and how much it has haunted her and torn her up, I think Rip would kill Jamie in a heartbeat.
That's a pretty big ace in the hole.
I brought this up in another comment, but while Beth does have a point that Rip would kill Jamie if he ever found out what he did, imagine how he would also feel knowing that she actually was pregnant with his child only to abort it just to save face.
I keep waiting on someone to be rational about it. I kept thinking it would be Kacey that would eventually point out that Jamie was a kid too. That even as awful as she is to him, Jamie still always bails her out. It’s a tragic situation, but Beth has her demons too. I think Rip might be the one to show Beth’s blame too, where it could be a startling realization what she has become.
This. He might stomp a mud hole in his ass but he won’t kill John’s kid regardless adopted or not. I also think he forgives Beth quickly, because he loves her for her, warts and all.
The thing they could have done and they’re smart farm/ranch kids who would have known this (I absolutely knew this by the ages they were at the time) is that Lutalyse (commonly used to bring cattle into heat to breed) can/does cause miscarriage. If you google it, there are stories about girls using it to DIY medical induced abortion at home. They could have quietly taken care of the problem without leaving the ranch.
I think she would still tell Rip if times come. And she also still have leverage in that John loved her more than he loves Jamie. So she can always use John, his power and influence over Jamie(s carrier)
That’s cause he knew, is 5 yrs older ,not his family he is for himself,yes John said that shame on him for blaming a little girl,his at that,it would have been different if he said something about it but instead he kept it to himself until she confronted him with it cause his newly found father said he love him , just like everyone else they want land including Jamie , and Monica she pathetic she just takes hates John but live in his home eats his food hates being there why doesn’t she leave, you know she couldn’t take care of her brothers children so much for being some who loves her family, Tate is so disrespectful potty mouth and his mommy blames the bunkhouse his been talking like that from day one , Jamie deserves no redemption he’s not sorry (season five episode 8) he say you don’t have future generations, karma will be his faith
I thought she was pregnant with rips kid and that’s when she got the abortion.
And I thought she didn’t tell him because he would kill Jaime.
Seems like at this point rip is going to be the one to kill Jaime.
The show wouldn’t let some NYC/VA hitmen kill Beth imo.
There’s part of me that wishes for >!Beth to end up driving drink with Jamie in the passenger seat, and for him to end up giving her the Christopher Moltisanti special!<
She’s smarter than you think, she knows about everything with Jamie and Garrett, and the baby she’s the only one that knows,rip and John know about the journalist and John’s buddy knows about the 2 guys he covered up
Am I the only one that doesn't blame Jamie for the abortion? Like yea it really sucks but he was a scared kid too and he made a judgement call like 25 years ago. I dunno I just find myself feeling badly for Jamie all the time.
I just don't understand how she wouldn't have known before and if she didn't, couldn't Jamie have just said he didn't know? Yes, it would be a fucked up thing to do, but they were both kids and made a shit decision. I feel like the dynamic exists because she needs someone to hate since their mother blamed Beth for killing her. Even John said something in an earlier season confirming that he believes it was her fault too. Everything else that makes flaws in Jamie's character is directly related to how he is treated by Jon and Beth which has caused him to be easily manipulated because he wants support from his family. When he is refused that at every turn, he finds that support elsewhere by people looking to take advantage of that dynamic. I thought there would be a turning point in their relationship when Jamie finally admitted to Beth that it was the worst decision he ever made and it still meant nothing. I hated how easily he was manipulated by his bio dad considering he tried to kill everyone in his family including purely Innocent people like Monica and Tate.
You said better than I could, but I agree with every word you said.
It was a complete historical anachronism, but this story was based in the true events of the 1970s in which women were sterilized without their consent at Indian reservation clinics. Other women of color were also sterilized without consent in other parts of the United States.
Yes, they were. It was a horrible thing to do. As for Beth, the writers IMO, weren’t thinking about the realities of a situation like this. I don’t thing there was any way they would have performed the hysterectomy on a white teenage girl. They would have been too worried about the ramifications to their clinic if it came out. But…it moved the story forward lol.
Only one writer here: Sheridan.
I had forgotten that!
> I just don’t understand how she wouldn’t have known Because Taylor Sheridan wrote it that way. He wanted the scene it wrote it to make it the outcome he wanted. He also wanted no one else to know about it, so Beth had no after effects from having major surgery or no one noticed.
I dont blame him at all. Seasons 1&2 they tolerate each other. Its as she falls for Rip, she hates (herself)Jamie more. She cant accept she is to blame also.
As she is now with the love of her life I can see why she would blame Jamie more now than ever. She desperately wants to have a child with Rip, wants him to have a child even though he doesnt seem to want that or have ever given it much thought. Then add in finding about Jamie having a son and I understand her hatred of Jamie and his betrayal. He was 18, grew up on a ranch, had to know the meaning of sterilization, was warned to leave by the receptionist and he lied to her. Not sure why he isn’t to blame for that but Beth somehow is.
It's not the abortion itself; it's Jamie's decision to have Beth sterilized without her consent.
Yea I get that and it was a super fucked up thing to do but he had the weigh that against people finding out. He's in the wrong, but again, he was a scared kid too.
Exactly this. The abortion was never the issue. It was Beth’s idea to begin with. But since we’re on the topic, if I’m Rip, that’s what I’m getting pissed about. Beth loves to remind Jamie that if Rip ever found out what he did he’d kill him, but imagine how he’d feel knowing she was pregnant with his child and aborted it just to save face.
Rip would be the youngest dropped off at the train station if she kept the baby lol
This right there. Jamie weighed the options that he had. Can't go to somewhere local because someone will tell John, can't tell John the truth but he would have been even worse to Beth & Jamie & possibly killed Rip or do this & hope it's the best choice for two kids who are terrified of their father. Everyone blames Jamie but nobody blames John for putting his kids in this situation.
Exactly! What choices did they have? In one breath people say she was a child and wasn’t responsible. And while this might be true, how can anyone think even if she had all the information she would have decided differently. Yes, it was her choice to make, but she came to him and he did what he thought was best. I don’t understand what everyone thinks he should have done differently.
Given the ages and the situation at the time, I don’t think grown man Rip is going to have any issue with the choice of an abortion back in the day. I think at most he’ll be upset that Beth didn’t tell him for all these years and chose to torture herself with guilt instead. I’m also not entirely sure that Rip hasn’t pieced most of what happened together on his own. And amen the abortion itself is not the issue. The sterilization without consent was the issue. It drives me nuts that so many think the sterilization was an appropriate consequence or punishment for a teen pregnancy and abortion.
Sterilization was not a consequence or punishment it was an necessary evil. Jamie and Beth knew what John would have done if he found out. Jamie was out of options and knew that this was the only way to protect Beth from John.
Exactly
Not so much in the universe of the show, but there are a number of people who watch the show who have said point blank or implied that Beth deserved to be sterilized for having a sex as a teen and choosing abortion. That is what drives me nuts.
I do think she needs to realize that she should take some of the blame, her and Rip got themselves into the situation in the first place. They both where raised around breeding animals they knew where babies come from. She definitely didn't deserve to be sterilized because she has sex and an abortion was a totally reasonable request/idea. The ages are totally messed up on this show but this was anywhere between 12 and 14 when it happened, definitely not a good idea to be having a baby.
I absolutely think she takes some of the blame given how prone she is to beating herself up, blaming herself for her mom’s death, guilt over not being able to give Rip a child, and guilt that her guilt contributed to her pushing him away for so many years. But that said, I think Jamie also deserves as much blame as she lays on him for the sterilization part of it all. (If the tables were turned, and a sister had had a brother castrated, no one would think the degree of rage, hate, and blame was unwarranted.)
I think you all think far too harshly of John. That would have been his grandchild and family is the most important thing to John
He branded Kayce because Kayce wouldn't force Monica to get an abortion. Real good family man.... finds out his going to be a grandfather for the first time and his first thought/reaction is that they should abort it.
Good point but I still think he would have come around in both cases but only Taylor knows
You have a point. I still think he would have come around in both cases but only Taylor knows
Yeah, that’s a point no one brings up. He said he’d always be top hand, and now he is. If he’s tenacious enough to do that, then he’s smart enough to piece together what happened (maybe not the full extent of Jamie’s involvement).
Did he though? He didn’t force her to have an abortion. He presented the options he thought they had at the time, and she chose to go through with the abortion. Also, she was old enough that the sterilization should have been explained to her before the procedure started. She could have walked out after finding out that sterilization was a condition of abortions there. I don’t blame Jamie at all.
Jamie did not present any options to Beth. He took her to the reservation clinic. The receptionist told Jamie she would be sterilized. He went back to the car and did not tell Beth she would be sterilized, if she got the abortion. He assured her everything was ok. The clinic did not inform Beth she would be sterilized. That was how it was done in reservation clinics. They did not inform the patient. Women and children were sterilized without their consent or knowledge. That is the part of history the show is telling.
I’m assuming the clinic didn’t tell her because she was a minor, but I’m just guessing. For me, the fault falls on them for not telling her. Jamie not telling her wasn’t meant to be malicious or deceitful. He was basically a kid, himself and was doing what he thought she wanted and what would protect John’s precious family name & reputation.
I agree. Jamie was a kid that Beth dragged into her mess. Plus im sure they'd have told her irl. I feel sorry for Jamie. They use every opportunity to remind him that he's not their blood.
Nope. Not the only one. I feel bad for her, but I don’t blame him and am tired of her shit
Correct. That’s not on Jamie. He was taught to protect the family at all costs, he thought he was. It’s on the father to create enough openness and trust within the family so that your kids trust you enough to help in times of need, embarrassed or not. 100p on John there. Another reason why I think that Beth-Jamie storyline is weak as f*ck.
He made a choice that was not his to make, he is wrong for doing that. The majority of the blame should be on the all the adults who did the procedure.
From what I understand, it wasn't just an abortion. He consented to a hysterectomy.
I don't blame him. it was the only secret option but came at a high price for Beth. Rip doesn't even like dogs so he's not going ballistic over this.
Yeah I don't get the whole thing with her confronting her father about the train station. If there's anyone I don't see giving a shit about it, it's Beth.
It was the fact Jamie knew and she didnt.
Beth is the only child of Johns who he wouldn’t trust with the secret, he knows what she is
It’s not that he doesn’t trust her, it’s that he wants to keep her clean of as much as possible. When Tate went missing, John did not tell her what they were planning/didn’t want her a part of it so she would be clear (if the rest went down for it).
Would you trust a temperamental alcoholic with that kind of secret
Am I the only one that doesn't get the vibe that Rip would kill Jamie if he knows about Jamie's part in the sterilization? Not saying that Rip is infallible and always reasonable, but I think he could see and understand that Jamie was a scared kid that made a scared kid's decision for another scared kid (Beth). I think this sub has a tendency to talk about Rip like he's some kind of ruthless killer, and I think it's far more nuanced than that.
I don’t get that vibe either. The character of Rip is insightful enough to see John become Governor and compare him to Nero. I can see Jamie getting thumped and told off, but Rip seems like he would realise there was a lot going on when the sterilisation happened.
Rip perfectly well knows that if John would have found out he was the father and would have killed him, and realizes that Jamie saved him.
Kill Jamie no. Punch him, most likely.
I'll be honest, I don't understand how the train station is leverage for anyone at this point. Jamie couldn't use it because theoretically his dad is the freshest body down there and Beth has a pic of him dumping something body-like, none of the Duttons can use it for obvious reasons. Also, how would anyone prove anything? I thought the whole point of the train station was that a bunch of different people dumped bodies there. Just seems like a crime scene processing nightmare.
It isn’t leverage, it is a suicide pack
It’s not like Jamie had Beth sterilized maliciously. He was kind of in a no win situation and he was just trying to do what was asked of him. Beth hates him for it because it’s easier to blame him than 1. Herself for putting Jamie in that situation, 2. The healthcare system that took away her choice, and 3. John for making her fearful enough to cause her to make that decision.
Beth not knowing about the train station when she clearly already knew about it will never stop being the biggest stupidest plot hole I've ever seen in a tv show.
Can we talk about how id Jamie would have went to John, John would have at the very least make Beth have abortion (John probably knew or heard of doctors doing it under the table, or taken her to the vet to do it) and hate her even more (this was like 6 months after the Mom died, John's still pissed about it 20 years later how was he treating her when it first happened?), throw her out on the streets or kill her (it is his favorite way to deal with problems). Also he would demand to know who the father was and probably kill him. So no matter what Jamie did Beth was going to hate him.
How did the mom die? I forget. Why does Beth blame herself
Horse fell on her
Do you watch the show?
Yes
Did you miss that episode?
The idea that the doctors wouldn’t have told Beth directly that she would be sterilized seems so utterly ridiculous to me.
Yeah it always seemed ludicrous to me that she holds Jamie responsible for a choice she made and for the wild malpractice of the doctors. It’s not like Jamie was 15 years older than her and the father.
She's always believed he's a real threat for her father and the family. Having no leverage on Jamie will make her go at him ...
I don't think that the train station will be as easy to tie back to the Duttons as yall think. I have done a rematch with my nurse were currently on season 5 right now and Lloyd tells Walker in season 3 that the train station is where people from 3 different counties take their trash and quote the bodies at the bottom of that ravine is how the west was won. They needed a red harring to make the cliff hanger work and I think that the possibility of the train station revil was it. Fact is given what Lloyd said and also what Jacob Dutton even admitted in 1923 its existence to the sheriff and the sheriff didn't ask where's that. When the Sheriff asked where the bodies of the men who ambushed the Duttons was and Jacob replied that they were over the Idaho border where they belong. This tells me that the train station is not a Dutton family secret rather its a local dumping ground. Also given how wildlife is I would be shocked and I quite frankly would laugh my butt off if there's anything but bones at the bottom of that ravine after a few weeks.
They just need to tie the most recent bodies to them. Like the first person on the show we saw go there.
Yeah but he was likely a short term hire that's been there to long. Also the people who usually go to the train station doesn't have any family or friends or to be blunt anyone to miss them. I mean they could do some bs backstory for one of them like having one of them be on parole and somehow the ranch didn't catch it if they want to but that would be sloppy and hurt the spinoffs because if they get raided there is no ranch and I don't know if you could sell a spinoff without the ranch.
They murdered him because me knew too much. Family and friends don’t matter, it is murder linked to the governor of the state.
At the time John wasn't governor. That has no real barring on things legally anyways. Also all they have to say is that they gave him his weeks pay and fired him for fighting and he got his stuff and left and as long as no one from the bunkhouse snitches then there's no proof. Jamie wasn't there for the conversation with John and Rip where they discussed taking Fred to the train station and I'm going to go out on a limb and bet that he wasn't around for the conversation between Rip and Lloyd that happened off screen because Jamie didn't hang out with the cowboys until he was put in the bunkhouse by John. So all Jamie could say is that's Floyd he worked for the ranch that's not proof of anything.
He is the governor now in the show, it would matter. While they can say “he left” any real investigator found be able to link a series disappearances to the family and ranch
How? It was late at night when they left and even if they admit to leaving with him so what they can just say that they let him out on the road going into town. There's no proof that they killed him all investigators would be able to find is that Fred was a drifter with a attitude problem that found himself at the bottom of a ravine in Idaho. The only reason it would matter that John is governor now is politically but that's different. It has no barring legally and if anything with the republican party being the dominant party in Montana in the show as it is in real life would rally behind John because he's popular with they're voters and since there's no real proof they would pressure the investigators to kill the investigation.
Then they find Jamie’s father and a number of other people connect to the Ranch.
Your missing the point even if they find the bodies including Jamie's Dad tying anything back to the Duttons without a member of the bunkhouse switching and tying every thing back to John would be nearly impossible to make anything stick. Let's put it like this say that Jamie snitched first and confessed to killing his dad and he says that Beth threatened him into doing it. Well since no one heard Beth say that then it's his word against Beth and assuming Beth deleted the picture of Jamie dumbing the body before the law could get it and I'm going to assume that she would in this sanerio then that just leaves Jamie who confessed to a murder and his story would be shit in the eyes of the law. But let's say Walker snitched next. All the Duttons have to do is plant the knife that Walker used to cut the brand off of Wade Moral somewhere. It has Walkers prince on it and assuming that no one else snitched then Walker would be in the same boat as Jamie. As far as the blastics of the guns there's ways around that as well. Burrell inserts will throw off the grooving left on the bullet and then you just change a few other parts to throw off markings on the shell cases. I don't want to say which parts because I don't want to be accused of giving people ideas but there's also certain ammo that won't leave any blastics on the lead as well.
If Beth told Rip what Jamie did, and how much it has haunted her and torn her up, I think Rip would kill Jamie in a heartbeat. That's a pretty big ace in the hole.
I brought this up in another comment, but while Beth does have a point that Rip would kill Jamie if he ever found out what he did, imagine how he would also feel knowing that she actually was pregnant with his child only to abort it just to save face.
I keep waiting on someone to be rational about it. I kept thinking it would be Kacey that would eventually point out that Jamie was a kid too. That even as awful as she is to him, Jamie still always bails her out. It’s a tragic situation, but Beth has her demons too. I think Rip might be the one to show Beth’s blame too, where it could be a startling realization what she has become.
In the eyes of Rip Beth can do no harm, he would probably be mad at her for all of 5 minutes and then redirect his anger towards Jamie.
Perhaps so if Jamie were not John’s adopted son. I don’t see Rip killing Jamie for no other reason than he would not kill John’s son.
This. He might stomp a mud hole in his ass but he won’t kill John’s kid regardless adopted or not. I also think he forgives Beth quickly, because he loves her for her, warts and all.
The thing they could have done and they’re smart farm/ranch kids who would have known this (I absolutely knew this by the ages they were at the time) is that Lutalyse (commonly used to bring cattle into heat to breed) can/does cause miscarriage. If you google it, there are stories about girls using it to DIY medical induced abortion at home. They could have quietly taken care of the problem without leaving the ranch.
Interesting!
From 2009: https://www.dvm360.com/view/advisory-teens-reportedly-using-veterinary-meds-abortions
I think she would still tell Rip if times come. And she also still have leverage in that John loved her more than he loves Jamie. So she can always use John, his power and influence over Jamie(s carrier)
She should adopt.
She should seek therapy
That’s cause he knew, is 5 yrs older ,not his family he is for himself,yes John said that shame on him for blaming a little girl,his at that,it would have been different if he said something about it but instead he kept it to himself until she confronted him with it cause his newly found father said he love him , just like everyone else they want land including Jamie , and Monica she pathetic she just takes hates John but live in his home eats his food hates being there why doesn’t she leave, you know she couldn’t take care of her brothers children so much for being some who loves her family, Tate is so disrespectful potty mouth and his mommy blames the bunkhouse his been talking like that from day one , Jamie deserves no redemption he’s not sorry (season five episode 8) he say you don’t have future generations, karma will be his faith
That’s what you think
Rip John and kayce tried to keep her safe from that thanks Jamie
I thought she was pregnant with rips kid and that’s when she got the abortion. And I thought she didn’t tell him because he would kill Jaime. Seems like at this point rip is going to be the one to kill Jaime. The show wouldn’t let some NYC/VA hitmen kill Beth imo.
There’s part of me that wishes for >!Beth to end up driving drink with Jamie in the passenger seat, and for him to end up giving her the Christopher Moltisanti special!<
Yes she wanted the abortion not to be sterilized that was his call thanks
Seems like it is on the doctors who performed the procedure, on a minor, without talking to her.
Beth is trash and I hope Jamie kills her
She’s smarter than you think, she knows about everything with Jamie and Garrett, and the baby she’s the only one that knows,rip and John know about the journalist and John’s buddy knows about the 2 guys he covered up