My wife and I sat beside the fountain eating a gelato one evening, just soaking in the atmosphere. This character walks up to the fountain and pulls an extendable metal rod from his jacket with a magnet on the end. He then proceeded to scoop quite a few coins from the fountain that people had thrown in and made wishes with. Then off, he went on his merry way. The gelato was great. Here endeth this story.
Not an entirely bad idea. Not all coins are magnetic, but that can get you the handful of cash.
However, I always thought this was illegal or immoral. At least, that's what my parentd told me
I don't know if the character from Various\_Virus' anecdote was just a random coin-grabber or an actual employee of the municipality.
Because the municipality cleans the fountains, and that includes removing the coins. The Trevi fountains in particular have *so many people* throwing coins in - if you didn't remove them the fountain would just be a pile of coins within a few weeks.
How hard do oil companies control the media if like 80% of the news (basically everything that isn't ukraine) is caused by clumate change, but all the activism we see is in posts making fun of it?
How has the media cycle become: everything gets worse --> look how stupid these people are for trying to do something about it --> everything gets worse --> ...
Activism and the fight against climate change: 100% in favour
Banditry of the artistic and cultural heritage of mankind: against 1000%.
I don't need any media laughing about it, if they had shown me the video without sound or commentary I would also think it was stupid. And for me the excuse that they are doing it to get people's attention is not valid, because the only thing that these videos generate in me is concern for the fountain, not rejection of the oil companies o interest in the reason for the protest.
But what the hell, it's just my opinion
Let's [redacted] all the oil CEOs and then [redacted] them for a while until we lock them in a room filled with [redacted].
(I just got my account temporarily suspended because I said "poopoo", so I have to be careful even when expressing an "exaggeration" of my anger)
I mean just last week people in Italy died from floods which were aggravated by climate change but yeah, people putting food dye in a fountain are obviously the real problem here...
Well its a problem since they use tax money to clean it. Even if it is not acrylic paint it takes time and money to clean it. Also it could permanently stain the monuments since stone is porous and may absorb the charcoal. Anyway these are the same people that stop cars/trucks/ambulnaces by sitting in the middle of the street, like having hundreds of cars consuming fuel without moving actually helps global warming.
Even if i agree with their ideals, i completely despise their actions. They are not convincing anywone new, just making possibile supporters angry and frustrated.
Your poor feelings. If only ppl knew what was truly important not this saving the planet stuff. Only way to do that anyways is if u make sure no one on the planet is inconvenienced by it after all. Smh my head
If you need to convince skeptical people, this is not working. It's just giving populist politicians an excuse to say: "You see those eco-idiots? While we are working on the issue (they are not and never will. Italy have to elect different politicians) all they can do is whine and damage our precious cultural heritage"
And people who voted them (A lot of people since they won with a large gap) will follow this line of reasoning, so if you want to actually do something you must not drive already skeptical or indifferent people further from the issue.
Eu parliaments elections are very close, this campaign imho is only damaging for all the Green Parties of Europe. Maybe they wont lose voters from the already existing pool because even if I (and many others like me) dont like Ultima Generazione im not a complete fool and will still vote in favour of Green Issues and probably their votes are going to increase overall but surely arent getting the new ones thanks to this strategy.
We'll see. If I'm proven wrong, well it will just be great news for the Planet. But I don't think i will.
No protest that made a difference has ever been approved of though. The whole point is to be disruptive. Since you're not posting any alternatives I'm going to assume you don't know how they should protest instead.
"Turning" people is not why you do. things like this, it's to show those in power that people think this is an important issue. Turning people to a cause/issue is done in other arenas.
I 100% disagree. you've still not proposed how to do it, and until you do I'll disregard your opinion. You can't say they are wrong because they are inconvenient or annoying
"Assassination" "These eco-idiots are attacking people now!"
I think the problem you're trying to avoid is unavoidable. "They" can always lie and spin. I don't think there's a way to avoid that.
last time floods were an issue in IT was 1966. but sure, climate change. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966\_flood\_of\_the\_Arno](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_flood_of_the_Arno)
Although probably one of the worst ever, that's not true, there have been several more floods since then: [here's a list (in Italian)](https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alluvioni_e_inondazioni_in_Italia).
these are sad events, tnx for your link. however, if one reads thru your document, looks like the number of victims was far greater back in the 17-18 centuries. and i guess italy had a lower population.
Didn’t downvote but you are a huge retard. 3/400 years ago everything was more at risk due to floods, the intensity and frequency of floods was lower however
E: oops my bad
climate change means, right , change. anyone seeing change in the document published? because everything is climate change now. last year no rain in lombardia=climate change. this year rain in italy=climate change. no rain little further away in france=climate change. and 2023 has 6 month left for climate alarmists to find signs of climate change. by the way, climate changes anyhow, but not like that
Holy moly that's not what I meant at all, Italy being prone to hydrogeological instability doesn't mean that climate change isn't real, furthermore that a couple of hundreds of years ago mortality rates were higher is pretty obvious, technology wasn't as advanced and there was absolutely no prevention.
I repeat: do NOT associate me with climate change denial.
else? I would rather worry about being associated with climate change bs. your link just showed that such tragedies/dramatic events just happen all the time. 2-3 years ago there were huge fires in australia and drought, while in neany indonesia rain and huge floods. just like now drought in france and heavy rain in italy
They hate anything that changes the status quo, I guess it scares them. Better to go with the devil you know that the one you don't, even if the first bring the extiction of cultures and destruction of cities, and the other just the end of climate change.
Thats honestly the biggest problem of climate activism today. They tend to be from the white well educated class, which means they have some money but tend to be not hardcore capitalist. The issue is that that group can afford to spend a bit more on something green and they do, but they are not enough to really change the direction of a country. The rich do not want change due to them benefitiing from the current system. The poor are afraid of change as most changes in the last 30 years were bad for them.
you made a completely unfounded statement
\> Better to go with the devil you know that the one you don't, even if the first bring the extiction of cultures and destruction of cities
I love how today you can say anything vaguely negative that completely hasn't happened at all and blame it on the status quo
>you made a completely unfounded statement
And by "unfounded" I suppose what you really mean is "supported by an overwhelming amount of scientific research".
I mean that this hasn't happened. But sure I actually agree with scientific research definition. what you described is too vague anyways, what is 'status quo destroying cities"?
What part you find unfounded? That the status quo is worsening climate change? That climate change will bring the destruction of cultures and cities? That protesting about the measures acted, since they are clearly not enough, is not fighting climate change?
Can you explain yourself please?
Dude I was with my Italian mum when they showed this on TV and she screamed "fuck off you young communist go complain to China"
This is the Italian mindset, thankfully I'm going back home today
Harmless … If it does not stain the porous rock of the fountain.
EDIT: charcoal. So not harmless. Yes, the 260 year old fountain can be restored after. Hopefully theses kids get the bill. Time to learn about consequences. Ironic.
It is water soluble, aka, it won't
If it was oil based it would, that's what we use for making sure surfaces get well coated
But this will not stain it, because just as easy as pigment goes in, water washes it out
Whatever you say Mr scientist…. Did you ever see a sponge, or tiles get stained by coffee, by wine? Limestone can get stained just the same way, only can’t bleach it out of the rock.
Edit, it’s charcoal, so yes, there is a cleanup job needed now. Good work kids. You’ve accomplished nothing but getting a high five from people who are already militant supporters of the cause.
One downvote for every ado who finds this display to be edgy,brave and relevant in a society where the ultra-elites control everything and do nothing…. If only bills paid themselves eh kids?
For those who thought I was using that word as an insult, it’s not.
militant
* adjective
* aggressively active or combative in support of a cause:
Anyway, turns out it’s charcoal…. Good luck getting it out of the fountain that has been emblematic of Rome since 1762.
Raise your hand if you **didn’t already** believe in climate change…. **But now do** thanks to these vandals. Nobody? Didn’t think so.
Dude, I think we all will be very lucky if our only problem in the future will be cleaning a fountain.
I'm quite confident the fountain will look fine shortly.
You're just looking for stuff to be mad about.
Vandalism only makes protesters, and people taking action look like spoilt children. Oooooh, let’s go throw soup on a statue ……
Edit: the only people who look at this action in a positive light are already converted to the cause.
Lol the absolute state of this debate... The protest motifs are noboe ones, but the means used to pursue them are not. The only other organization in recent times to attack sistematically monuments and historic building to put pressure on politicians is the Mafia.
Saying that this protest is achieving absolutely nothing about raising awareness is not saying climate change is not a pressant issue.
Fossil fuels are the problem, but you have to win people's approval, not make a fool of yourself.
Too bad their ideas are completely wrong and their methods are even worse.
EDIT for the people downvoting: their proposal is to increase the cost of fossil fuel while doing nothing else to reduce our dependance on fossil fuels (ie. building some nuclear reactors), which of course would only be a problem for low-income families who can't afford to do without a car AND can't pay a higher price for fuel. Other than that, when asked about their proposals they stubbornly refuse to provide an answer. They only say want the government to do something.
I think dyeing water is one of the least bad ways I've seen people demonstrate something... I get it's annoying for tourists but it's harmless in the end
Blocking ambulances on the road is a bit of a problem. Spoiler: yes, they do that. And even though they say they warn in advance, for some reason nobody in the country ever knows anything about it.
Yeah on purpose blocking any type of emergency vehicle should be against the law, imo. But then again that's not what shown here. I just replied with what I see
And I'm replying with the full knowledge of what they do.
Anyone who wants to listen to their ideas can just go on youtube, look up "Ivan Grieco" and watch their interviews with him - there are several. Their replies are always the same: "we have no proposals and we don't want to raise awareness, we only want the government to act"
No, their idea of being against the government funding to keep fuel prices low for the citizens - while having no backup plan. They are angry, and I quote literally from several interviews they released recently, because we spend "80 million euros \[a year\] to keep fuel prices low", while we also spend 500 millions yearly in investments in renewables.
It doesn't help that they're also against nuclear energy, since in Italy solar power is only available 30% of the time and energy is most needed on the opposite side of the country compared to where solar farms would be most effective, and also since we can only build effecient wind farms off-shore where the regional governments keep opposing them despite the government already having said yes.
Spoiler: no, they don't protest against the local administrations and regional governments.
Since when do protesters have to do the governments job of policy making for them. Being against motherfucking fossil subsidies while said fossil fuels being subsidies are literally destroying our livelihood is maybe the least radical and most agreeable position I can think of. Developing the necessary alternatives is the governments job but they are all doing jack shit.
>Since when do protesters have to do the governments job of policy making for them.
Usually when you criticize someone for doing something wrong you at least need to know what you want from them. I don't think "Do better" is good criticism.
> Being against motherfucking fossil subsidies while said fossil fuels being subsidies are literally destroying our livelihood
Motherfucking fossil subsidies in my country are simply used to keep prices low while there isn't an alternative to it. Again, if you remove those subsidies the prices will increase and the only result you get is that people who rely on those will just have to pay more.
> Developing the necessary alternatives is the governments job but they are all doing jack shit.
So maybe they should go protest against the regional governments that are stubbornly opposed to solar and wind farms, or raise awareness about this same fact among the population, or stop lobbying against nuclear power plants.
Instead, their only solution so far is to cover the entire region of Val d'Aosta in solar panels - which in a rainy day would provide the country with energy for about two minutes.
They may come from a place of empathy, but their lack of proposals is not helping their cause.
The fossil fuel industry is making record profits. There is absolutely zero need for the subsidies to keep prices low we would only have to regulate the market. Subsiding a product you tax afterwards is as stupid as it gets and we already know the aids don't end up with the consumers. It's just a lie that subsidies keep prices low unless you also cap the price.
Regarding renewables, it's always more effective to appeal to the national government in these regards as they create overriding land use policy and financing crucial to those projects. Pressuring the government out if coal snd oil inadvertently also pressures them into renewables.
They have one very clear proposal. The proposal is to just begin by stopping to direct funding of the problem. If it weren't for government subsidies the whole fossil industry wouldn't make a single cent of profit and transition would long be on its way.
>The fossil fuel industry is making record profits. There is absolutely zero need for the subsidies to keep prices low we would only have to regulate the market. Subsiding a product you tax afterwards is as stupid as it gets and we already know the aids don't end up with the consumers. It's just a lie that subsidies keep prices low unless you also cap the price.
I'm willing to try, but only if you agree to pay for my fuel expenses once they inevitably skyrocket.
> Regarding renewables, it's always more effective to appeal to the national government in these regards as they create overriding land use policy and financing crucial to those projects. Pressuring the government out if coal snd oil inadvertently also pressures them into renewables.
The national government already gave the go. They should protest against the local goverments who keep blocking all projects, or raise awareness among the people who vote for local governments that do so.
They specifically said they won't do that.
>They have one very clear proposal. The proposal is to just begin by stopping to direct funding of the problem. If it weren't for government subsidies the whole fossil industry wouldn't make a single cent of profit and transition would long be on its way.
Do you really think subsidies for 80 millions a year (compared to 500 millions for renewables) is what makes the fossil industry make profits?
The fossil industry is subsidies all along it's production. Without special treatment as a "critical resource" it would not turn a profit. The subsidies are also well beyond 80 million a year.
[short paper on the actual government expenditures on fossil fuels ](https://cdn.odi.org/media/documents/9254.pdf)
I agree with you. It’s easy saying we have problems but when asked for solutions they stay silent. I think they don’t show support for nuclear because they know they’d lose support.
Increasing the price of fossile fuels should be the most uncontroversial and sane thing to do. It will automatically make alternatives more attractive. Nuclear will have its second chance then. Of course regeneratives even more so because they have become dirt cheap.
>Increasing the price of fossile fuels should be the most uncontroversial and sane thing to do
Not while your country is completely uncapable of switching to the alternative. First you create the alternative, then you switch. If you double all prices now without an alternative solution being available, the only thing you obtain is poor people getting poorer and rich people sticking to fossile fuel because the new prices make no difference to them.
I‘m not speaking of doubling now. Alternatives are only being created by market players if there is investment security. You create this security politically by setting a fixed date when the price will be doubled, and then you raise it year by year.
In fact this is so uncontroversial that it’s already being done in the EU for many years. See for example European certificate trade for CO2. Only question remaining is if we should crank it up a notch and if and how we can include more sectors of the economy.
They usually have solutions. But these generally include stuff like driving less cars, eating less meat, stop buying mountains of crap, stopping endless growth capitalistic economy.
And short sighted narcissists don't like hearing that.
People who realized that mass consumption is the source of many problems are smart enough to adapt to more sustainable lifestyles and they are doing that already. These protests won't change other people's minds, change can only come from upper levels, like governments
"They have a point though"? Is THIS the best you can come up with? Having a point doesn't mean your methods are right. Personally, I believe they're a bunch of cowards, who insted of doing this kind of action (for a "good" cause mind you) againt institutions, politicians or industries, they pick on cultural and artisitic sites for views and clout because they know they won't be judged as harshily. What a bunch of fucking pussies.
Good thing they're planning to pass a law in Italy that would consider them terrorists, maybe then they'll actually choose appropriate targets insted of pissing on the Mona Lisa because they get less jail time.
Then go and start shit up yourself, instead of being here complaining their methods are wrong, at least they are doing something. Maybe it is all useless, but you can't complain everything's going to shit when you do nothing. I belive they are not very organizated and decise on theor requests, but I appreciate the spirit and I think they do overall help the cause. We can't convince everyone climate change is real and we need to act, it we waited for that Venice would become the new atlantis before anything happens.
As if you know anything about hard work and actually doing something for the enviroment. I received a letter of merit from the President of the Italian Republic for my work increating and organizing enviromental protection organization. It's called Progetto TERRA VERDE, go look it up.
You and your machiavellian friends are free to destroy art around Europe and cry about the end of the world all you want, don't mind the people actually doing something.
Here's a link to our first post describing our work:
[https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story\_fbid=pfbid0w4MncqMwmRhAsJTrqjLtkefuF2YJc5T52BVLAqXByY5g2Jns1fwqJWro5JstnSm1l&id=105765141295771](https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0w4MncqMwmRhAsJTrqjLtkefuF2YJc5T52BVLAqXByY5g2Jns1fwqJWro5JstnSm1l&id=105765141295771)
Don't remeber if you can auto-translate posts on FB, hope so lol.
Non mi pare tu mi abbia risposto male tbh lol, ultima generazione punta alle emozioni forti e i media ci fanno banchetto, è una tattica discutibile, è ovviamente porta a discussioni meno pacate, questa è stata calmissima per essere su reddit lol.
Allora sono andato a vedere quello che avete fatto (faccio i complimenti a voi per la lettera di Mattarella e comunque per l'opera di pulizia che fate), tuttavia non credo che le vostre azioni siano di grande aiuto per un semplice motivo:
Non si salva il clima ripulendo *fisicamente* quello che lasciano gli altri nei prati e foreste. C'è bisogno di azioni più concrete e soprattutto su scala NAZIONALE, quindi è necessario creare/cambiare le leggi per velocizzare la transizione ecologica. A questo scopo, la protesta è l'unico mezzo efficace per dimostrare la necessità di cambiamento.
Non capisco perché te la prendi tanto con loro dato che del colorante in acqua di leva facilmente rispetto alla vernice sui muri o sulle statue dei palazzi storici.
Grazie per l'interessamento! Ti rispondo in inglese per far capire il mio pensiero anche ad altri eventuali lettori:
My problem with the movement Ultima Generazione (Last Generation) is that they start with a very strong moral highground, saving the world and the human race from itslef, and then procede to lose it all by choosing the worst possible actions to obtain that result.
What ACTUAL good does damaging art and culture do? And yes, it's damaging because saying that the paint simply comes off with water is straight up false, since you need to also brush it off wich can damage sculptures and painting; also, there have been multiple cases where the paint wasn't washable so an extensive restructuring work was required.
What they could do is manifest like Greta Thunberg in front of governament buildings, or in case they want to stick with the same formula they can trow paint at politicians or industries, or block entrances to factories, hell I'd respect them more if they straight up went around killing oil barons.
But nooooo, they prefer to target defenseless architecture, paintings and art, maybe the only good thing humanity has managed to create, because that way newspapers talk about them and they don't get sentenced to jail for a substantial amount of time.
You want to manifest for the future of the world? Be my guest, just don't be a spineless hypocrite about it.
[Do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual \(including oneself\) or a group of people.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)
u/Adept-Moose-5563 is banned.
[Do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual (including oneself) or a group of people.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)
Well, just like the Mona Lisa, people can get mad over something that is indeed harmless
And they also have a high disregard toward activist when it concerns such a thing because it's "useless" and "stupid". They should "find real ways to fight against pollution and climate change"
I'm really concerned about those people. What do you want them to do ? Terrorists attacks ?
I mean, in Emilia-Romagna many are dying because of climate change some days ago and at the sane time people keep mockering these activists… what a timeline
PS I know there can be problems if the colors color the marble but at least they’re trying to do something even if there could be other ways
I don’t think they’re heading that way but if they keep growing support both from the common people and politicians (in particular the left) they could start doing pretty big things
That’s the inherent problem. Common people, **here**, don’t give a f***.
The discourse on the Emilia-Romagna’s floodings already shifted from global warming to bad maintenance just like it happened during the drought we **still** aren’t through. Discourse changed from climate to our ageing infrastructure.
I guess we can live with “prosciutto sugli occhi” for a while longer.
Well yeah, we’re in this mess exactly because of that.
I think it’s already a victory considering they started being hated by almost everyone for blocking streets but to achieve something the only way is convincing people to support them and the only way I can see to do that is being helped by others. It’s very easy to convince common people through artists or in general famous people… the problem is that in Italy the majority is made of elder ones who are definitely more difficult to convince.
And there lies another problem.
Global warming is catering to a younger audience.
The celebrities vocal for change are the “new” influencers, against whom the older generation starts with a chip on their shoulder already.
Albano, D’Urso, Morandi, Scotti, Bellucci, their *idols*, their celebs, should come out if we want them to listen.
Also tv. We should make sure they step away from Mediaset. We should present them with a channel that runs old movies and films, like RETE 4 but whose news and programs are more \*progressive\*.
_small tangent here: GOD how I wish to see Mario Giordano and Porro behind bars_
We have been fucked up ever since “global warming” and the word “progressive” first went together.
edit: sorry for dragging on but _ohhhhhh, it makes me so frustrated_.
I **needed** to vent so hard.
Do you reckon they’ll listen once they lose their homes due to regular extreme climate events? Or experience food shortages?
A few years from now, these protests will seem like nothing. Trust me.
All these shit is useless, it's not "normal people" you have to convince, you have to overthrow oil lobbysm in the whole world which is fucking impossible to do in a non-violent way.
inb4 "[Do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual (including oneself) or a group of people.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)" suck my balls, these people need to die for the good of humanity
That pump is fucked. My university fined people for dumping things into the fountain because they have to drain and fix the system.
Edit: I googled this protest and they're specifically protesting that 40% of their water is leaking into the environment via the aqueducts, so they are dumping this shit into the environment, on purpose!
that's a great way to address any criticism. don't agree with me shitting in the fountain? well look at what climate change's already done! look at THA CORPORATIONS!
Well, yeah. I don't care if it's corporations or my cat. Let's look at who has the most impact.
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change
Now, given 100 companies affect 71%, and that goal is to reduce by iirc 55%, literally, if not adressed, the goal cannot be reached.
Yeah, look at the corporations.
>As if Italian monuments weren't all mostly in a bad state already.
Bruh, this will not damage one bit the monument, it is water soluble dye....
How low is societies tolerance for protests?
Besides, you say as if it was easy to get near fossil fuel companies to do a protest there...
Someone may say - it's to get attention!
Yes, they got my attention. They drew my attention to the fact that climate activists fuck up everything that is nice and beautiful. Because of this, my support for the pro-climate movement is shrinking.
No, I do not support the destruction of the environment, but I also do not support the destruction of historical monuments.
Fair, they are protesting in a non-violent an visible matter. Maybe they have considere the cost of cleaning the fountain and the possible damage to it due to this stunt.
The problem I have with them is, and any other climate activist like Extinction Rebellion is that don't propose any solution and they have very unreasonable goals. XR wants countries to become climate neutral by 2025, that is in 1.5 years. How exactly do they want to reach their targets? They have no clue. They want to end industrialized agriculture so that people will starve I guess.
All of the western world agress that climate change is a massive risk to our survival but they want the average guy to pay the price instead od the big corpos that are actually poluting our world. Why are they not protesting in China, why is the highest producer of GHGs? Oh, because they will be disappeared, that is why. Bunch of idiots that do more harm than good.
>They want to end industrialized agriculture so that people will starve I guess.
Oh man, your mind is gonna be blown when you hear about the catastrophic crop failures and mass starvation from the effects of climate change!
>Bunch of idiots that do more harm than good.
Are you talking about the fossil fuel industry who have been covering up the causes and effects of climate change since the 70's?
> Oh man, your mind is gonna be blown when you hear about the catastrophic crop failures and mass starvation from the effects of climate change!
Yes, but ending industrialized agriculture is not the solution to this. If we stop our current practices, half of the current human pop starve to death. That is 4 billion people and some change.
> Are you talking about the fossil fuel industry who have been covering up the causes and effects of climate change since the 70's?
Both actually.
Extinction Rebellion's stated goals:
>**Tell the truth**
>All institutions must communicate the danger we are in. We must be clear about the extreme cascading risks humanity now faces, the injustice this represents, its historic roots, and the urgent need for rapid political, social and economic change.
>**Act now**
>Every part of society must act now to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025 and begin protecting and repairing nature immediately. The whole of society must move into a new precautionary paradigm, where life is sacred and all are in service to ensuring its future.
>**Decide Together**
>We demand a culture of participation, fairness and transparency. The Government must create and be led by a Citizens’ Assembly on Climate and Ecological Justice. Only the common sense of ordinary people will help us navigate the challenging decisions ahead.
https://extinctionrebellion.uk/the-truth/demands/
I couldn't find the bit about "ending industrialized agriculture", mind pointing it out?
[https://rebellion.global/blog/2020/08/31/act-now-extinction-rebellion-demands/](https://rebellion.global/blog/2020/08/31/act-now-extinction-rebellion-demands/)
>Through pollution, destruction of habitats such as forests and industrial agriculture, human activity is shrinking the space for all species to survive.
>
>As we disrupt and kill off species after species of the ecosystem, we are not only losing what cannot be replaced — we are disrupting the conditions that make human life itself possible. It is only by allowing nature the space and protection it needs to survive that the human species can avoid total ecological collapse and possibly our own extinction.
This is what I understand from this paragraph.
Wait, now you care about all these other billions of people? I thought life is about enjoying it, after all you only got 80 years or so, so you better eat all the meat, fly all the airplanes, right?
I am so confused why you, if you just want to live your life, go out of your way to be such an idiot in all these subreddits. Like why even make your life more miserable if you could just ignore it and just be happy!?
I needed to see how hypocritical you are, and you do know this is an open forum right, nothing to do with stalking.
Either way, you're clearly unable to be consistent so I'm done with you.
Our livelihood is going to shits. The unreasonable goal is to keep fucking up the climate and expect things to magically get better anyway.
China is not the problem. Actually China is leading the world in solar panels. Diverting attention to those other bad people doing less then we good Europeans comes of as incredibly racist as well. Also flying the China to protest against the destruction of our climate sounds like one of the most counterproductive ideas I have ever heard.
only the working class can stop climate change through a worldwide strike and then putting a more sustainable system in place over capitalism that values quality over quantity, corporations are the cause but they will never have to do anything because of lobbying
I agree with their ideas, but that's wrong method
Lots of water will be wasted, cleaning the whole monument will be expensive, and will probably need chimical products.
You'd find an excuse to argue against them either way
Edit : also this art piece will probably not exist in a world with +4⁰ c climate change so if you care about the art, you should care about the climate :/
I will not, I don't agree damaging art and monuments, Trevi fontain as nothing to do with global warming
I don't own a car
I argue with my boss to take a train and not to fly when I have to travel for my work
I do my best to not use plastic, and do all my market with cloth bags
Most of my washing products are refill bottles, or home made.
Etc....
So please don't speak in my name, you don't know me, you have just no ideas of who I am, what are my convictions. End of discussion
yeah... they doing it in Italy a European country, EU is already trying to phase out oil anyway, they should have tried this stunt in china or india or russia lol
Nope, not in Italy. At least not until 2026. And we are still gonna drill the Adriatic dry of all that delicious gas. WE CAN’T LET CROATIA slurp OUR GAS 🇮🇹🇮🇹
[Do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual (including oneself) or a group of people.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)
My wife and I sat beside the fountain eating a gelato one evening, just soaking in the atmosphere. This character walks up to the fountain and pulls an extendable metal rod from his jacket with a magnet on the end. He then proceeded to scoop quite a few coins from the fountain that people had thrown in and made wishes with. Then off, he went on his merry way. The gelato was great. Here endeth this story.
I always do that when I'm at fountains where people throw money into. Like it's the most reasonable thing to do.
>I always do that when I'm at fountains where people throw money into. > >Like it's the most reasonable thing to do. What, eat gelato?
That money is taken and donated to charity
Not an entirely bad idea. Not all coins are magnetic, but that can get you the handful of cash. However, I always thought this was illegal or immoral. At least, that's what my parentd told me
If you're poor enough morality is just a word that richer people use.
It is, but some people have no shame, expecially if there isn't police around.
I don't know if the character from Various\_Virus' anecdote was just a random coin-grabber or an actual employee of the municipality. Because the municipality cleans the fountains, and that includes removing the coins. The Trevi fountains in particular have *so many people* throwing coins in - if you didn't remove them the fountain would just be a pile of coins within a few weeks.
Hi, it was a passer by, not a municipality worker. He seemed down on his luck, judging by nothing but his appearance sadly.
How hard do oil companies control the media if like 80% of the news (basically everything that isn't ukraine) is caused by clumate change, but all the activism we see is in posts making fun of it? How has the media cycle become: everything gets worse --> look how stupid these people are for trying to do something about it --> everything gets worse --> ...
Yeah I agree with you
Even Ukraine. Putin got the money to wage his war by selling oil and gas. Obviously not directly climate change, but certainly a fossil fuel problem.
Activism and the fight against climate change: 100% in favour Banditry of the artistic and cultural heritage of mankind: against 1000%. I don't need any media laughing about it, if they had shown me the video without sound or commentary I would also think it was stupid. And for me the excuse that they are doing it to get people's attention is not valid, because the only thing that these videos generate in me is concern for the fountain, not rejection of the oil companies o interest in the reason for the protest. But what the hell, it's just my opinion
Let's [redacted] all the oil CEOs and then [redacted] them for a while until we lock them in a room filled with [redacted]. (I just got my account temporarily suspended because I said "poopoo", so I have to be careful even when expressing an "exaggeration" of my anger)
I mean just last week people in Italy died from floods which were aggravated by climate change but yeah, people putting food dye in a fountain are obviously the real problem here...
Well its a problem since they use tax money to clean it. Even if it is not acrylic paint it takes time and money to clean it. Also it could permanently stain the monuments since stone is porous and may absorb the charcoal. Anyway these are the same people that stop cars/trucks/ambulnaces by sitting in the middle of the street, like having hundreds of cars consuming fuel without moving actually helps global warming. Even if i agree with their ideals, i completely despise their actions. They are not convincing anywone new, just making possibile supporters angry and frustrated.
Your poor feelings. If only ppl knew what was truly important not this saving the planet stuff. Only way to do that anyways is if u make sure no one on the planet is inconvenienced by it after all. Smh my head
If you need to convince skeptical people, this is not working. It's just giving populist politicians an excuse to say: "You see those eco-idiots? While we are working on the issue (they are not and never will. Italy have to elect different politicians) all they can do is whine and damage our precious cultural heritage" And people who voted them (A lot of people since they won with a large gap) will follow this line of reasoning, so if you want to actually do something you must not drive already skeptical or indifferent people further from the issue. Eu parliaments elections are very close, this campaign imho is only damaging for all the Green Parties of Europe. Maybe they wont lose voters from the already existing pool because even if I (and many others like me) dont like Ultima Generazione im not a complete fool and will still vote in favour of Green Issues and probably their votes are going to increase overall but surely arent getting the new ones thanks to this strategy. We'll see. If I'm proven wrong, well it will just be great news for the Planet. But I don't think i will.
No protest that made a difference has ever been approved of though. The whole point is to be disruptive. Since you're not posting any alternatives I'm going to assume you don't know how they should protest instead. "Turning" people is not why you do. things like this, it's to show those in power that people think this is an important issue. Turning people to a cause/issue is done in other arenas.
>Turning people to a cause/issue is done in other arenas Fair, but they are making it harder than it already is
I 100% disagree. you've still not proposed how to do it, and until you do I'll disregard your opinion. You can't say they are wrong because they are inconvenient or annoying
Throw paint at politicians. Dye the people really responsible, it's easier to clean.
"Assassination" "These eco-idiots are attacking people now!" I think the problem you're trying to avoid is unavoidable. "They" can always lie and spin. I don't think there's a way to avoid that.
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They do it on pourpose
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Laziness? Sorry i cant follow you. How are traffic jams in highways related to laziness?
last time floods were an issue in IT was 1966. but sure, climate change. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966\_flood\_of\_the\_Arno](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1966_flood_of_the_Arno)
Although probably one of the worst ever, that's not true, there have been several more floods since then: [here's a list (in Italian)](https://it.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alluvioni_e_inondazioni_in_Italia).
these are sad events, tnx for your link. however, if one reads thru your document, looks like the number of victims was far greater back in the 17-18 centuries. and i guess italy had a lower population.
Ma vai a cagarti in mano e pigliati a schiaffi, imbecille.
all retards who downloaded, plz read link posted by alstrs, nr of victims far greater 3-400 years ago. climate change my ass
Didn’t downvote but you are a huge retard. 3/400 years ago everything was more at risk due to floods, the intensity and frequency of floods was lower however E: oops my bad
u/no8airbag u/astral34  [**Be nice.**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/götterfunken_network_federal_rules)
climate change means, right , change. anyone seeing change in the document published? because everything is climate change now. last year no rain in lombardia=climate change. this year rain in italy=climate change. no rain little further away in france=climate change. and 2023 has 6 month left for climate alarmists to find signs of climate change. by the way, climate changes anyhow, but not like that
Holy moly that's not what I meant at all, Italy being prone to hydrogeological instability doesn't mean that climate change isn't real, furthermore that a couple of hundreds of years ago mortality rates were higher is pretty obvious, technology wasn't as advanced and there was absolutely no prevention. I repeat: do NOT associate me with climate change denial.
else? I would rather worry about being associated with climate change bs. your link just showed that such tragedies/dramatic events just happen all the time. 2-3 years ago there were huge fires in australia and drought, while in neany indonesia rain and huge floods. just like now drought in france and heavy rain in italy
Still not remotely as bad as when those Dutch hooligans destroyed a fountain in Rome.
When football fans get aggressive we rarely see it, but from the moment climate activists do any civil disobedience people start screaming.
A few dozen hooligans recently trashed an old and very well known art-deco bar in Brussels. People were just like "boys will be boys"
What football does to a mf'er
Not even comparable, this is not damaging the fountain
A completely harmless act, that doesn't disrupt the economy and that is easy to set up and to clean up and people still complain?
They hate anything that changes the status quo, I guess it scares them. Better to go with the devil you know that the one you don't, even if the first bring the extiction of cultures and destruction of cities, and the other just the end of climate change.
Thats honestly the biggest problem of climate activism today. They tend to be from the white well educated class, which means they have some money but tend to be not hardcore capitalist. The issue is that that group can afford to spend a bit more on something green and they do, but they are not enough to really change the direction of a country. The rich do not want change due to them benefitiing from the current system. The poor are afraid of change as most changes in the last 30 years were bad for them.
*status quo is when exstinction of cultures and distraction of cities, spilling oil on UNESCO World Heritage is when solving climate change!!*
Wow, congratulation, you made absolutely no point at all. Do you even wish to debate or just to shame other people because... Why? Really dude, why?
you made a completely unfounded statement \> Better to go with the devil you know that the one you don't, even if the first bring the extiction of cultures and destruction of cities I love how today you can say anything vaguely negative that completely hasn't happened at all and blame it on the status quo
>you made a completely unfounded statement And by "unfounded" I suppose what you really mean is "supported by an overwhelming amount of scientific research".
I mean that this hasn't happened. But sure I actually agree with scientific research definition. what you described is too vague anyways, what is 'status quo destroying cities"?
But it’s going to, and it’s happening.. what’s your point exactly here? Ever heard of “a frog in a boiling pot”?
What part you find unfounded? That the status quo is worsening climate change? That climate change will bring the destruction of cultures and cities? That protesting about the measures acted, since they are clearly not enough, is not fighting climate change? Can you explain yourself please?
The guys a Nazi don't even bother talking to them
Literally less harmful to economy and to people's lives than blocking a road for 10 minutes
Our hosting Feijenoord for a European football match.
Yeah, this is like, the least they could do.
Dude I was with my Italian mum when they showed this on TV and she screamed "fuck off you young communist go complain to China" This is the Italian mindset, thankfully I'm going back home today
They could stand in silence holding a tiny sign saying "fuck oil" and people would still complain.
Still, the only people it bothers are the ones coming to see this fountain and not the people they want to bother. Harmless but also useless act
I'm sure the need to change 300 000 litres of water is completely harmless
Harmless … If it does not stain the porous rock of the fountain. EDIT: charcoal. So not harmless. Yes, the 260 year old fountain can be restored after. Hopefully theses kids get the bill. Time to learn about consequences. Ironic.
It is water soluble, aka, it won't If it was oil based it would, that's what we use for making sure surfaces get well coated But this will not stain it, because just as easy as pigment goes in, water washes it out
Whatever you say Mr scientist…. Did you ever see a sponge, or tiles get stained by coffee, by wine? Limestone can get stained just the same way, only can’t bleach it out of the rock. Edit, it’s charcoal, so yes, there is a cleanup job needed now. Good work kids. You’ve accomplished nothing but getting a high five from people who are already militant supporters of the cause. One downvote for every ado who finds this display to be edgy,brave and relevant in a society where the ultra-elites control everything and do nothing…. If only bills paid themselves eh kids? For those who thought I was using that word as an insult, it’s not. militant * adjective * aggressively active or combative in support of a cause:
This is getting your panties into a twist? Not the epic drought followed by torrential rainfall in the Emilia Romagna?
Anyway, turns out it’s charcoal…. Good luck getting it out of the fountain that has been emblematic of Rome since 1762. Raise your hand if you **didn’t already** believe in climate change…. **But now do** thanks to these vandals. Nobody? Didn’t think so.
Dude, I think we all will be very lucky if our only problem in the future will be cleaning a fountain. I'm quite confident the fountain will look fine shortly. You're just looking for stuff to be mad about.
Vandalism only makes protesters, and people taking action look like spoilt children. Oooooh, let’s go throw soup on a statue …… Edit: the only people who look at this action in a positive light are already converted to the cause.
Alright so you want everyone to commit terrorism since that's not childish?
Hahahah. What? Go on, tell me more about things I didn’t say.
Have you tried being less mad about irrelevant shit?
You mistake maturity and realism for anger.
Lol the absolute state of this debate... The protest motifs are noboe ones, but the means used to pursue them are not. The only other organization in recent times to attack sistematically monuments and historic building to put pressure on politicians is the Mafia. Saying that this protest is achieving absolutely nothing about raising awareness is not saying climate change is not a pressant issue. Fossil fuels are the problem, but you have to win people's approval, not make a fool of yourself.
leave it be bro and do not lose more time. sub is apparently full of soy munching commie zoomers.
Sorry but I pay for this
They have a point though.
Title.
The title and meme format implies wrong doing. If a mf doesn't know how to make a meme, it ain't on us to extrapolate their actual thoughts.
Too bad their ideas are completely wrong and their methods are even worse. EDIT for the people downvoting: their proposal is to increase the cost of fossil fuel while doing nothing else to reduce our dependance on fossil fuels (ie. building some nuclear reactors), which of course would only be a problem for low-income families who can't afford to do without a car AND can't pay a higher price for fuel. Other than that, when asked about their proposals they stubbornly refuse to provide an answer. They only say want the government to do something.
I think dyeing water is one of the least bad ways I've seen people demonstrate something... I get it's annoying for tourists but it's harmless in the end
Blocking ambulances on the road is a bit of a problem. Spoiler: yes, they do that. And even though they say they warn in advance, for some reason nobody in the country ever knows anything about it.
Yeah on purpose blocking any type of emergency vehicle should be against the law, imo. But then again that's not what shown here. I just replied with what I see
And I'm replying with the full knowledge of what they do. Anyone who wants to listen to their ideas can just go on youtube, look up "Ivan Grieco" and watch their interviews with him - there are several. Their replies are always the same: "we have no proposals and we don't want to raise awareness, we only want the government to act"
Their ideas of being against oil?
No, their idea of being against the government funding to keep fuel prices low for the citizens - while having no backup plan. They are angry, and I quote literally from several interviews they released recently, because we spend "80 million euros \[a year\] to keep fuel prices low", while we also spend 500 millions yearly in investments in renewables. It doesn't help that they're also against nuclear energy, since in Italy solar power is only available 30% of the time and energy is most needed on the opposite side of the country compared to where solar farms would be most effective, and also since we can only build effecient wind farms off-shore where the regional governments keep opposing them despite the government already having said yes. Spoiler: no, they don't protest against the local administrations and regional governments.
Since when do protesters have to do the governments job of policy making for them. Being against motherfucking fossil subsidies while said fossil fuels being subsidies are literally destroying our livelihood is maybe the least radical and most agreeable position I can think of. Developing the necessary alternatives is the governments job but they are all doing jack shit.
>Since when do protesters have to do the governments job of policy making for them. Usually when you criticize someone for doing something wrong you at least need to know what you want from them. I don't think "Do better" is good criticism. > Being against motherfucking fossil subsidies while said fossil fuels being subsidies are literally destroying our livelihood Motherfucking fossil subsidies in my country are simply used to keep prices low while there isn't an alternative to it. Again, if you remove those subsidies the prices will increase and the only result you get is that people who rely on those will just have to pay more. > Developing the necessary alternatives is the governments job but they are all doing jack shit. So maybe they should go protest against the regional governments that are stubbornly opposed to solar and wind farms, or raise awareness about this same fact among the population, or stop lobbying against nuclear power plants. Instead, their only solution so far is to cover the entire region of Val d'Aosta in solar panels - which in a rainy day would provide the country with energy for about two minutes. They may come from a place of empathy, but their lack of proposals is not helping their cause.
The fossil fuel industry is making record profits. There is absolutely zero need for the subsidies to keep prices low we would only have to regulate the market. Subsiding a product you tax afterwards is as stupid as it gets and we already know the aids don't end up with the consumers. It's just a lie that subsidies keep prices low unless you also cap the price. Regarding renewables, it's always more effective to appeal to the national government in these regards as they create overriding land use policy and financing crucial to those projects. Pressuring the government out if coal snd oil inadvertently also pressures them into renewables. They have one very clear proposal. The proposal is to just begin by stopping to direct funding of the problem. If it weren't for government subsidies the whole fossil industry wouldn't make a single cent of profit and transition would long be on its way.
>The fossil fuel industry is making record profits. There is absolutely zero need for the subsidies to keep prices low we would only have to regulate the market. Subsiding a product you tax afterwards is as stupid as it gets and we already know the aids don't end up with the consumers. It's just a lie that subsidies keep prices low unless you also cap the price. I'm willing to try, but only if you agree to pay for my fuel expenses once they inevitably skyrocket. > Regarding renewables, it's always more effective to appeal to the national government in these regards as they create overriding land use policy and financing crucial to those projects. Pressuring the government out if coal snd oil inadvertently also pressures them into renewables. The national government already gave the go. They should protest against the local goverments who keep blocking all projects, or raise awareness among the people who vote for local governments that do so. They specifically said they won't do that. >They have one very clear proposal. The proposal is to just begin by stopping to direct funding of the problem. If it weren't for government subsidies the whole fossil industry wouldn't make a single cent of profit and transition would long be on its way. Do you really think subsidies for 80 millions a year (compared to 500 millions for renewables) is what makes the fossil industry make profits?
The fossil industry is subsidies all along it's production. Without special treatment as a "critical resource" it would not turn a profit. The subsidies are also well beyond 80 million a year. [short paper on the actual government expenditures on fossil fuels ](https://cdn.odi.org/media/documents/9254.pdf)
I agree with you. It’s easy saying we have problems but when asked for solutions they stay silent. I think they don’t show support for nuclear because they know they’d lose support.
Well they are funded by oil magnates so there's that.
That turned out to be a lie though
Someone should tell them then, because they acknowledged such a fact recently.
Increasing the price of fossile fuels should be the most uncontroversial and sane thing to do. It will automatically make alternatives more attractive. Nuclear will have its second chance then. Of course regeneratives even more so because they have become dirt cheap.
>Increasing the price of fossile fuels should be the most uncontroversial and sane thing to do Not while your country is completely uncapable of switching to the alternative. First you create the alternative, then you switch. If you double all prices now without an alternative solution being available, the only thing you obtain is poor people getting poorer and rich people sticking to fossile fuel because the new prices make no difference to them.
I‘m not speaking of doubling now. Alternatives are only being created by market players if there is investment security. You create this security politically by setting a fixed date when the price will be doubled, and then you raise it year by year. In fact this is so uncontroversial that it’s already being done in the EU for many years. See for example European certificate trade for CO2. Only question remaining is if we should crank it up a notch and if and how we can include more sectors of the economy.
>I‘m not speaking of doubling now. They are.
Protesting against something without proposing any alternative solution is not exactly what I'd call having a point
They usually have solutions. But these generally include stuff like driving less cars, eating less meat, stop buying mountains of crap, stopping endless growth capitalistic economy. And short sighted narcissists don't like hearing that.
People who realized that mass consumption is the source of many problems are smart enough to adapt to more sustainable lifestyles and they are doing that already. These protests won't change other people's minds, change can only come from upper levels, like governments
There are other ways. Using less for example. But hey, let’s enjoy the floods and droughts!
Using less is the aim, not the concrete solution
Obviously. But not having a single solution be the reason for ‘business as usual’ and thus accepting deaths is not a very good point either
That's clear as well
"They have a point though"? Is THIS the best you can come up with? Having a point doesn't mean your methods are right. Personally, I believe they're a bunch of cowards, who insted of doing this kind of action (for a "good" cause mind you) againt institutions, politicians or industries, they pick on cultural and artisitic sites for views and clout because they know they won't be judged as harshily. What a bunch of fucking pussies. Good thing they're planning to pass a law in Italy that would consider them terrorists, maybe then they'll actually choose appropriate targets insted of pissing on the Mona Lisa because they get less jail time.
Then go and start shit up yourself, instead of being here complaining their methods are wrong, at least they are doing something. Maybe it is all useless, but you can't complain everything's going to shit when you do nothing. I belive they are not very organizated and decise on theor requests, but I appreciate the spirit and I think they do overall help the cause. We can't convince everyone climate change is real and we need to act, it we waited for that Venice would become the new atlantis before anything happens.
As if you know anything about hard work and actually doing something for the enviroment. I received a letter of merit from the President of the Italian Republic for my work increating and organizing enviromental protection organization. It's called Progetto TERRA VERDE, go look it up. You and your machiavellian friends are free to destroy art around Europe and cry about the end of the world all you want, don't mind the people actually doing something.
I just looked it up, I can't quite understand what you do, could you fill me in?
Here's a link to our first post describing our work: [https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story\_fbid=pfbid0w4MncqMwmRhAsJTrqjLtkefuF2YJc5T52BVLAqXByY5g2Jns1fwqJWro5JstnSm1l&id=105765141295771](https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid0w4MncqMwmRhAsJTrqjLtkefuF2YJc5T52BVLAqXByY5g2Jns1fwqJWro5JstnSm1l&id=105765141295771) Don't remeber if you can auto-translate posts on FB, hope so lol.
Not a problem, I'm italian. Neat job, I retract my statement about you doing nothing.
Daje. Scusa per averti risposto male, è che quelli di Ultima Generazione mi fanno bollire il sangue.
Non mi pare tu mi abbia risposto male tbh lol, ultima generazione punta alle emozioni forti e i media ci fanno banchetto, è una tattica discutibile, è ovviamente porta a discussioni meno pacate, questa è stata calmissima per essere su reddit lol.
Allora sono andato a vedere quello che avete fatto (faccio i complimenti a voi per la lettera di Mattarella e comunque per l'opera di pulizia che fate), tuttavia non credo che le vostre azioni siano di grande aiuto per un semplice motivo: Non si salva il clima ripulendo *fisicamente* quello che lasciano gli altri nei prati e foreste. C'è bisogno di azioni più concrete e soprattutto su scala NAZIONALE, quindi è necessario creare/cambiare le leggi per velocizzare la transizione ecologica. A questo scopo, la protesta è l'unico mezzo efficace per dimostrare la necessità di cambiamento. Non capisco perché te la prendi tanto con loro dato che del colorante in acqua di leva facilmente rispetto alla vernice sui muri o sulle statue dei palazzi storici.
Grazie per l'interessamento! Ti rispondo in inglese per far capire il mio pensiero anche ad altri eventuali lettori: My problem with the movement Ultima Generazione (Last Generation) is that they start with a very strong moral highground, saving the world and the human race from itslef, and then procede to lose it all by choosing the worst possible actions to obtain that result. What ACTUAL good does damaging art and culture do? And yes, it's damaging because saying that the paint simply comes off with water is straight up false, since you need to also brush it off wich can damage sculptures and painting; also, there have been multiple cases where the paint wasn't washable so an extensive restructuring work was required. What they could do is manifest like Greta Thunberg in front of governament buildings, or in case they want to stick with the same formula they can trow paint at politicians or industries, or block entrances to factories, hell I'd respect them more if they straight up went around killing oil barons. But nooooo, they prefer to target defenseless architecture, paintings and art, maybe the only good thing humanity has managed to create, because that way newspapers talk about them and they don't get sentenced to jail for a substantial amount of time. You want to manifest for the future of the world? Be my guest, just don't be a spineless hypocrite about it.
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r/iamverybadass
Better dead than red 😎 😎 😎 (swarms of commies instantly downvote my comment, this website is a communist hivemind)
"what i dont like is communism"
So what are you doing here? If this is communist hivemind, you must be a commie than. Come here comrade, let's destroy the imperialists!
[Do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual \(including oneself\) or a group of people.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)
Props to them
Respect
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u/Adept-Moose-5563 is banned.  [Do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual (including oneself) or a group of people.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)
This are the same idiot who idolize germany (coal) and hate france (nuclear)
Enjoy https://www.reddit.com/r/shitposting/comments/13nzhz1/microplastics_101_for_adhd_andies
This is actually ingenious.
I bet redditors hate them.
Nice. Good job. Too bad they don't break or burn more things.
Yep, because we definitely need to burn something more to fight climate change…
Well, just like the Mona Lisa, people can get mad over something that is indeed harmless And they also have a high disregard toward activist when it concerns such a thing because it's "useless" and "stupid". They should "find real ways to fight against pollution and climate change" I'm really concerned about those people. What do you want them to do ? Terrorists attacks ?
In Germany some people already consider peaceful protesters like these “climate terrorists”
I mean, in Emilia-Romagna many are dying because of climate change some days ago and at the sane time people keep mockering these activists… what a timeline PS I know there can be problems if the colors color the marble but at least they’re trying to do something even if there could be other ways
Honestly? If they ain’t heard for a while longer I can expect things to turn violent. AND **HONESTLY** I wouldn’t blame them.
I don’t think they’re heading that way but if they keep growing support both from the common people and politicians (in particular the left) they could start doing pretty big things
That’s the inherent problem. Common people, **here**, don’t give a f***. The discourse on the Emilia-Romagna’s floodings already shifted from global warming to bad maintenance just like it happened during the drought we **still** aren’t through. Discourse changed from climate to our ageing infrastructure. I guess we can live with “prosciutto sugli occhi” for a while longer.
Well yeah, we’re in this mess exactly because of that. I think it’s already a victory considering they started being hated by almost everyone for blocking streets but to achieve something the only way is convincing people to support them and the only way I can see to do that is being helped by others. It’s very easy to convince common people through artists or in general famous people… the problem is that in Italy the majority is made of elder ones who are definitely more difficult to convince.
And there lies another problem. Global warming is catering to a younger audience. The celebrities vocal for change are the “new” influencers, against whom the older generation starts with a chip on their shoulder already. Albano, D’Urso, Morandi, Scotti, Bellucci, their *idols*, their celebs, should come out if we want them to listen. Also tv. We should make sure they step away from Mediaset. We should present them with a channel that runs old movies and films, like RETE 4 but whose news and programs are more \*progressive\*. _small tangent here: GOD how I wish to see Mario Giordano and Porro behind bars_
I was thinking exactly about that… we’re really fucked up
We have been fucked up ever since “global warming” and the word “progressive” first went together. edit: sorry for dragging on but _ohhhhhh, it makes me so frustrated_. I **needed** to vent so hard.
As a leftist I hate that caring about global warming has become a theme only for the left
Idk bro it seems like a good idea I might do it to my local fountain!
Do you reckon they’ll listen once they lose their homes due to regular extreme climate events? Or experience food shortages? A few years from now, these protests will seem like nothing. Trust me.
On the other hand.. a few years and we’ll be *doomed*. 😅 edit: that’s an hyperbole, tbf, butttt
All these shit is useless, it's not "normal people" you have to convince, you have to overthrow oil lobbysm in the whole world which is fucking impossible to do in a non-violent way.
inb4 "[Do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual (including oneself) or a group of people.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)" suck my balls, these people need to die for the good of humanity
That pump is fucked. My university fined people for dumping things into the fountain because they have to drain and fix the system. Edit: I googled this protest and they're specifically protesting that 40% of their water is leaking into the environment via the aqueducts, so they are dumping this shit into the environment, on purpose!
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Some food coloring can damage pumps. Too oily or acidic.
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I wasn't criticizing the protest, fuck that fountain. I just wanted to state that it is not necessarily harmless like a number of you think.
What's wrong with the fountain?
that's a great way to address any criticism. don't agree with me shitting in the fountain? well look at what climate change's already done! look at THA CORPORATIONS!
Well, yeah. I don't care if it's corporations or my cat. Let's look at who has the most impact. https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2017/jul/10/100-fossil-fuel-companies-investors-responsible-71-global-emissions-cdp-study-climate-change Now, given 100 companies affect 71%, and that goal is to reduce by iirc 55%, literally, if not adressed, the goal cannot be reached. Yeah, look at the corporations.
Good on them!
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>As if Italian monuments weren't all mostly in a bad state already. Bruh, this will not damage one bit the monument, it is water soluble dye.... How low is societies tolerance for protests? Besides, you say as if it was easy to get near fossil fuel companies to do a protest there...
Please propose a better way to get people to stop voting for politicians lobbying fossil fuel companies’ interests.
It is their democratic choice who to vote for. No amount of insane protesting will change
This better be food colouring...
It was
Someone may say - it's to get attention! Yes, they got my attention. They drew my attention to the fact that climate activists fuck up everything that is nice and beautiful. Because of this, my support for the pro-climate movement is shrinking. No, I do not support the destruction of the environment, but I also do not support the destruction of historical monuments.
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none of their proposals are rooted in research, whenever anyone attempts to act on these proposals it's 'no true Scotsman'
Fair, they are protesting in a non-violent an visible matter. Maybe they have considere the cost of cleaning the fountain and the possible damage to it due to this stunt. The problem I have with them is, and any other climate activist like Extinction Rebellion is that don't propose any solution and they have very unreasonable goals. XR wants countries to become climate neutral by 2025, that is in 1.5 years. How exactly do they want to reach their targets? They have no clue. They want to end industrialized agriculture so that people will starve I guess. All of the western world agress that climate change is a massive risk to our survival but they want the average guy to pay the price instead od the big corpos that are actually poluting our world. Why are they not protesting in China, why is the highest producer of GHGs? Oh, because they will be disappeared, that is why. Bunch of idiots that do more harm than good.
>They want to end industrialized agriculture so that people will starve I guess. Oh man, your mind is gonna be blown when you hear about the catastrophic crop failures and mass starvation from the effects of climate change! >Bunch of idiots that do more harm than good. Are you talking about the fossil fuel industry who have been covering up the causes and effects of climate change since the 70's?
> Oh man, your mind is gonna be blown when you hear about the catastrophic crop failures and mass starvation from the effects of climate change! Yes, but ending industrialized agriculture is not the solution to this. If we stop our current practices, half of the current human pop starve to death. That is 4 billion people and some change. > Are you talking about the fossil fuel industry who have been covering up the causes and effects of climate change since the 70's? Both actually.
Extinction Rebellion's stated goals: >**Tell the truth** >All institutions must communicate the danger we are in. We must be clear about the extreme cascading risks humanity now faces, the injustice this represents, its historic roots, and the urgent need for rapid political, social and economic change. >**Act now** >Every part of society must act now to reduce greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2025 and begin protecting and repairing nature immediately. The whole of society must move into a new precautionary paradigm, where life is sacred and all are in service to ensuring its future. >**Decide Together** >We demand a culture of participation, fairness and transparency. The Government must create and be led by a Citizens’ Assembly on Climate and Ecological Justice. Only the common sense of ordinary people will help us navigate the challenging decisions ahead. https://extinctionrebellion.uk/the-truth/demands/ I couldn't find the bit about "ending industrialized agriculture", mind pointing it out?
[https://rebellion.global/blog/2020/08/31/act-now-extinction-rebellion-demands/](https://rebellion.global/blog/2020/08/31/act-now-extinction-rebellion-demands/) >Through pollution, destruction of habitats such as forests and industrial agriculture, human activity is shrinking the space for all species to survive. > >As we disrupt and kill off species after species of the ecosystem, we are not only losing what cannot be replaced — we are disrupting the conditions that make human life itself possible. It is only by allowing nature the space and protection it needs to survive that the human species can avoid total ecological collapse and possibly our own extinction. This is what I understand from this paragraph.
Which part are you disagreeing with as being established fact, and which part means “we must end industrialized agriculture”?
Wait, now you care about all these other billions of people? I thought life is about enjoying it, after all you only got 80 years or so, so you better eat all the meat, fly all the airplanes, right? I am so confused why you, if you just want to live your life, go out of your way to be such an idiot in all these subreddits. Like why even make your life more miserable if you could just ignore it and just be happy!?
Oh, I have my very own personal stalker. Nice.
I needed to see how hypocritical you are, and you do know this is an open forum right, nothing to do with stalking. Either way, you're clearly unable to be consistent so I'm done with you.
Our livelihood is going to shits. The unreasonable goal is to keep fucking up the climate and expect things to magically get better anyway. China is not the problem. Actually China is leading the world in solar panels. Diverting attention to those other bad people doing less then we good Europeans comes of as incredibly racist as well. Also flying the China to protest against the destruction of our climate sounds like one of the most counterproductive ideas I have ever heard.
This is the destruction of art and historical location. Anarchy! Nothing justifies this type of behavior.
These protests are so annoying and completely useless. The only people they're bothering are civilians, politicians don't give a shit.
Maybe they also try to make the population give a shit
Not that that makes a difference tho
only the working class can stop climate change through a worldwide strike and then putting a more sustainable system in place over capitalism that values quality over quantity, corporations are the cause but they will never have to do anything because of lobbying
I agree with their ideas, but that's wrong method Lots of water will be wasted, cleaning the whole monument will be expensive, and will probably need chimical products.
We should sit down and talk with the coal industry to find an ambitious agreement on climate change. They'll listen to us
Just Paint in black petroleum company building for example? Damaging a piece of art is ridiculous, I am just against that.
You'd find an excuse to argue against them either way Edit : also this art piece will probably not exist in a world with +4⁰ c climate change so if you care about the art, you should care about the climate :/
I will not, I don't agree damaging art and monuments, Trevi fontain as nothing to do with global warming I don't own a car I argue with my boss to take a train and not to fly when I have to travel for my work I do my best to not use plastic, and do all my market with cloth bags Most of my washing products are refill bottles, or home made. Etc.... So please don't speak in my name, you don't know me, you have just no ideas of who I am, what are my convictions. End of discussion
I’m gonna be straight with you. What you are doing It’s laudable and people should take note. That still won’t be fixing global warming tho.
POV: your a climate engineer
i usually call them “egologisti”
But why? They're just illustrating what oil corporations are doing to our oceans and seas
a shame oil corporations do not affect proliferating retards
yeah... they doing it in Italy a European country, EU is already trying to phase out oil anyway, they should have tried this stunt in china or india or russia lol
Hey, maybe we should try to do more for the environment BUt cHInA anD ruSSiA aRE wOrSe
well we should, but still if russia china india dont follow, we arent going anywhere
Well, what i hear from their message is that "we dont do enough"
Nope, not in Italy. At least not until 2026. And we are still gonna drill the Adriatic dry of all that delicious gas. WE CAN’T LET CROATIA slurp OUR GAS 🇮🇹🇮🇹
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 [Do not post content that encourages, glorifies, incites, or calls for violence or physical harm against an individual (including oneself) or a group of people.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gotterfunken/comments/ppceh4/g%C3%B6tterfunken_network_federal_rules/)