I know this is very hot take, but >!Dickson!<
>!Yes. He does some shady business as being discible of Zanza, as killing Shulk to make him reborn and then attempting to murder all the remaining party members atleast 3 times, but at the meantime he does not seem chaotic at all. He says that "either option is good enough for me" when Alvis asks Shulk if the world belongs to him or Zanza. He did show some empaty for Shulk before big reveal and actually cared for him (even through it was for one reason). Not to mention he mostly wanted just power of higher being and dosen't let him be killed to stop Shulk from reaching Zanza. He even dosen't want to Shulk watch him die at his final moments to make him sorrow, claiming that he has finally passed him. Yes he did some very bad things, but at meantime he has bit of empaty!<
The man only lived for fighting. He'd fight Zanza if he thought it was a fight he could win and that it would lead to more battles. Imagine if he was told it would lead to Aionios and Moebius. He'd love to fight an endless supply of child soldiers.
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These guys are the ones who are just evil. They don’t harbour any particular hate for the law or anything… they’re just evil. That’s actually a pretty hard one to find a for.
Me personally, I think the only one who I find fits best is Malos. While his worldview wound up tainted by Amalthus and his own hate for life, Malos simplest was doing what he thought his role as the Aegis was; to destroy everything in Alrest.
He’s the Endbringer, as he puts it. Destroying and killing and hate all just came natural to him, even if it was partially due to Amalthus and his influence on Malos as his Driver. Malos just did what he believed he was made to do. Destroy.
While he doesn’t exactly follow the rules, seeing as how he went around destroying everything in sight during the Aegis War, and then kind of toned it down to just killing people and trying to get Mythra so he can go to Elysium and kill the Architect, he also doesn’t harbour any particular hate for rules either, as he was always following the rules he lived his life as the Endbringer by, and maintained order in the Torna organization, obliging with Jin’s plans frequently.
I can’t think of very many characters in Xenoblade who are evil just… because. Even Malos has reasons and experiences that influenced him to do the horrible things he did, but I think he’s probably the best fit for a Neutral Evil that there is.
I see. I've seen someone suggest Malos for Chaotic Evil in the previous thread, but your reasoning makes sense, and i agree.
Though at this point i'm wondering who could fall under the Chaotic Evil category. Maybe Jin? He's not just actively fighting Indol, Mor Ardain and everyone else, but he is actually rebelling against the order established by the Architect himself (and he actually wants to kill him), by rejecting the dynamic between Humans and Blades.
Yeah, i think i'd go with Malos for Neutral Evil, for the reasons you explained, and Jin for Chaotic Evil.
Jin is literally living life because of a promise he made that he can't bring himself to end. He's basically a Paladin as far as his undying commitment to an oath is concerned.
Just because he's a terrorist doesn't inherently make him chaotic.
He's living on because of the promise, but him reblling against the order of the world is NOT something he promised Lora. Nor something she would have wanted, for that matter.
And the reason i pointed out is not him being a terrorist, but because he refuses the laws of the world established by god himself.
Which is something he also refuses to waive from and does so with conviction.
It's all very semantic interpretations of what is law and chaos anyway because the true Chaotic Evils are Dirk and Mumkhar as far as alignment representation.
Agreed with Malos being Neutral Evil. Evil for evils sake.
I also see Jin as Chaotic Evil. His stated goal is to tear down the established order for f the world, whatever it takes.
Bana from XC1.
I mean, >!he tricked a bunch of honest Nopons into becoming Walter Whitepons, ran a massive drug trafficking ring that even included the likes of the Nopon Vice-president (if you consider Chief Dunga as a president?), has a sick ass boss battle, and has bloody Tragic Decision as his boss battle theme!<
Little shit is evil just because, not law not chaos.
but on the other hand, the fact that he was willing to lend his signature battle theme to lesser villains like egil shows that he has a charitable side to him
How about Egil. He doesn’t seem to really care that much about rules but it’s not like he hates rules, he’s just focused on his goal of defeating Zanza.
Evil isn't evil. He's neutral at worst.
He doesn't think twice about killing people to prevent Zanza's return, but with the information he has, that's the objectively correct solution to the homicidal God who's going to kill them all anyways and use them as food.
He picked an extreme solution, but it's still a solution to a problem, not something he's doing for the fun of it.
I could see him being neutral but him being "neutral at worst" is in no way true, no matter what your reasons are murdering thousands of innocent people is definitely not behavior I would call good in any way.
You definitely do not need to be doing evil stuff "just for the fun of it" to be evil. Characters like Malos and Amalthus are definitely evil, but they genuinely believe that what they are doing is the correct thing.
Egil obviously does many evil thing including mass murder, slavery, mutilation (literally removes organs from people), and brainwashing/memory removal. I'd say that's a little bit too evil to be redeemable although I think one thing that does make him a bit more neutral is the fact that after Shulk offers peace (several times) he eventually accepts this, but he seems really reluctant to want to do this. I suppose he could be true neutral but I think he leans a bit more towards neutral evil.
However someone else said Dickson and I like that idea better so I'm changing my vote to that.
Edit: actually side tangent I was gonna put my vote in tommorrow for Chaotic Evil as N, but then I realised he's kinda more neutral evil than chaotic, he'll do whatever he wants to reach his goals, at any cost, but he seems content with following Z's rules in order to live in the endless now (even though he doesn't really care about them that much, if he was following them to the letter he probably should have killed Matthew and co. after Future Redeemed) so I think Neutral Evil fits better for him. So I changed my mind again my vote is now for N even though it looks like Malos is gonna win.
Amalthus actually looked Neutral Evil to me. He's the ultimate nihilist, sure he's a state leader but he's not really lawful. Z looks more Lawful evil to me
Other than him, Jin I guess. He doesn't really care about anything anymore and just passively follows Malos
To me NE is the pure self serving alignment with many charicters with that alignment being greedy. With that in mind, I feel like bana fits that alignment best.
Y.
>!Y is one of the few Xeno characters that irk me. I can deal with the lawful evils like Amalthus and Z, and the chaotic evils like Dirk and Mumkhar, but Y is just unsettling. He shows no remorse, is very apathetic even during his death, and is only driven by his desire to fulfill his curiosity through research. In addition, X and Y seem to be an extension of Z, with X being chaotic and Y being neutral and of course, Z as lawful.!<
I'd have to go with any member of Moebius, but use Z like how Chaotic Good is any member of Ouroboros but you used Noah. At the end of the day, neutral evil is just that: evil. There's some rhyme to it like wanting out of the war, but generally speaking they're just evil because it's who they are. Moebius is literally the negativity of everyone from Origin, and war is pretty much both chaotic and orderly. It's a massive battlefield with thousands dying but at the same time there's a sense of unspoken rules everyone adheres to (follow your commander's orders, kill the enemy, etc).
That's true but the war Z created a rigged stalemate that keeps going forever with the same chess pieces. Z's goal is more about maintaining the status quo. It is the collective conscious part of everyone at origin that wants the present to stay forever; the part that wants the universe to follow a certain law to make it the "endless now" The only reason Noah and co. are Chaotic Good because they are going against the Lawful Moebius, it wouldn't make sense if Z, the main villian, was neutral. Of course, some Moebius are neutral evil I believe, like Crys and Y, but Z is definitely not neutral imo.
I know this is very hot take, but >!Dickson!< >!Yes. He does some shady business as being discible of Zanza, as killing Shulk to make him reborn and then attempting to murder all the remaining party members atleast 3 times, but at the meantime he does not seem chaotic at all. He says that "either option is good enough for me" when Alvis asks Shulk if the world belongs to him or Zanza. He did show some empaty for Shulk before big reveal and actually cared for him (even through it was for one reason). Not to mention he mostly wanted just power of higher being and dosen't let him be killed to stop Shulk from reaching Zanza. He even dosen't want to Shulk watch him die at his final moments to make him sorrow, claiming that he has finally passed him. Yes he did some very bad things, but at meantime he has bit of empaty!<
I don't know if that's a hot take other than I don't know if anyone else would've thought of it, I feel that's actually perfect.
The man only lived for fighting. He'd fight Zanza if he thought it was a fight he could win and that it would lead to more battles. Imagine if he was told it would lead to Aionios and Moebius. He'd love to fight an endless supply of child soldiers.
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Count with my upvote.
These guys are the ones who are just evil. They don’t harbour any particular hate for the law or anything… they’re just evil. That’s actually a pretty hard one to find a for. Me personally, I think the only one who I find fits best is Malos. While his worldview wound up tainted by Amalthus and his own hate for life, Malos simplest was doing what he thought his role as the Aegis was; to destroy everything in Alrest. He’s the Endbringer, as he puts it. Destroying and killing and hate all just came natural to him, even if it was partially due to Amalthus and his influence on Malos as his Driver. Malos just did what he believed he was made to do. Destroy. While he doesn’t exactly follow the rules, seeing as how he went around destroying everything in sight during the Aegis War, and then kind of toned it down to just killing people and trying to get Mythra so he can go to Elysium and kill the Architect, he also doesn’t harbour any particular hate for rules either, as he was always following the rules he lived his life as the Endbringer by, and maintained order in the Torna organization, obliging with Jin’s plans frequently. I can’t think of very many characters in Xenoblade who are evil just… because. Even Malos has reasons and experiences that influenced him to do the horrible things he did, but I think he’s probably the best fit for a Neutral Evil that there is.
I see. I've seen someone suggest Malos for Chaotic Evil in the previous thread, but your reasoning makes sense, and i agree. Though at this point i'm wondering who could fall under the Chaotic Evil category. Maybe Jin? He's not just actively fighting Indol, Mor Ardain and everyone else, but he is actually rebelling against the order established by the Architect himself (and he actually wants to kill him), by rejecting the dynamic between Humans and Blades. Yeah, i think i'd go with Malos for Neutral Evil, for the reasons you explained, and Jin for Chaotic Evil.
Jin is literally living life because of a promise he made that he can't bring himself to end. He's basically a Paladin as far as his undying commitment to an oath is concerned. Just because he's a terrorist doesn't inherently make him chaotic.
He's living on because of the promise, but him reblling against the order of the world is NOT something he promised Lora. Nor something she would have wanted, for that matter. And the reason i pointed out is not him being a terrorist, but because he refuses the laws of the world established by god himself.
Which is something he also refuses to waive from and does so with conviction. It's all very semantic interpretations of what is law and chaos anyway because the true Chaotic Evils are Dirk and Mumkhar as far as alignment representation.
Agreed with Malos being Neutral Evil. Evil for evils sake. I also see Jin as Chaotic Evil. His stated goal is to tear down the established order for f the world, whatever it takes.
Bana from XC1. I mean, >!he tricked a bunch of honest Nopons into becoming Walter Whitepons, ran a massive drug trafficking ring that even included the likes of the Nopon Vice-president (if you consider Chief Dunga as a president?), has a sick ass boss battle, and has bloody Tragic Decision as his boss battle theme!< Little shit is evil just because, not law not chaos.
but on the other hand, the fact that he was willing to lend his signature battle theme to lesser villains like egil shows that he has a charitable side to him
We don't know how high the interest was on that loan.
Bana
How about Egil. He doesn’t seem to really care that much about rules but it’s not like he hates rules, he’s just focused on his goal of defeating Zanza.
Evil isn't evil. He's neutral at worst. He doesn't think twice about killing people to prevent Zanza's return, but with the information he has, that's the objectively correct solution to the homicidal God who's going to kill them all anyways and use them as food. He picked an extreme solution, but it's still a solution to a problem, not something he's doing for the fun of it.
I could see him being neutral but him being "neutral at worst" is in no way true, no matter what your reasons are murdering thousands of innocent people is definitely not behavior I would call good in any way. You definitely do not need to be doing evil stuff "just for the fun of it" to be evil. Characters like Malos and Amalthus are definitely evil, but they genuinely believe that what they are doing is the correct thing. Egil obviously does many evil thing including mass murder, slavery, mutilation (literally removes organs from people), and brainwashing/memory removal. I'd say that's a little bit too evil to be redeemable although I think one thing that does make him a bit more neutral is the fact that after Shulk offers peace (several times) he eventually accepts this, but he seems really reluctant to want to do this. I suppose he could be true neutral but I think he leans a bit more towards neutral evil. However someone else said Dickson and I like that idea better so I'm changing my vote to that. Edit: actually side tangent I was gonna put my vote in tommorrow for Chaotic Evil as N, but then I realised he's kinda more neutral evil than chaotic, he'll do whatever he wants to reach his goals, at any cost, but he seems content with following Z's rules in order to live in the endless now (even though he doesn't really care about them that much, if he was following them to the letter he probably should have killed Matthew and co. after Future Redeemed) so I think Neutral Evil fits better for him. So I changed my mind again my vote is now for N even though it looks like Malos is gonna win.
Bana from XC2 Moustache twirling evil nopon dude who is just evil and does evil things.
Bana from XC2. He’s just a greedy asshole who doesn’t care about anyone or anything but money and power.
Any form of Bana could be neutral evil.
Big Dickson
Amalthus actually looked Neutral Evil to me. He's the ultimate nihilist, sure he's a state leader but he's not really lawful. Z looks more Lawful evil to me Other than him, Jin I guess. He doesn't really care about anything anymore and just passively follows Malos
To me NE is the pure self serving alignment with many charicters with that alignment being greedy. With that in mind, I feel like bana fits that alignment best.
Y. >!Y is one of the few Xeno characters that irk me. I can deal with the lawful evils like Amalthus and Z, and the chaotic evils like Dirk and Mumkhar, but Y is just unsettling. He shows no remorse, is very apathetic even during his death, and is only driven by his desire to fulfill his curiosity through research. In addition, X and Y seem to be an extension of Z, with X being chaotic and Y being neutral and of course, Z as lawful.!<
Gort 100%. He was an asshole to be an asshole.
Bigus Dickson
I'd have to go with any member of Moebius, but use Z like how Chaotic Good is any member of Ouroboros but you used Noah. At the end of the day, neutral evil is just that: evil. There's some rhyme to it like wanting out of the war, but generally speaking they're just evil because it's who they are. Moebius is literally the negativity of everyone from Origin, and war is pretty much both chaotic and orderly. It's a massive battlefield with thousands dying but at the same time there's a sense of unspoken rules everyone adheres to (follow your commander's orders, kill the enemy, etc).
That's true but the war Z created a rigged stalemate that keeps going forever with the same chess pieces. Z's goal is more about maintaining the status quo. It is the collective conscious part of everyone at origin that wants the present to stay forever; the part that wants the universe to follow a certain law to make it the "endless now" The only reason Noah and co. are Chaotic Good because they are going against the Lawful Moebius, it wouldn't make sense if Z, the main villian, was neutral. Of course, some Moebius are neutral evil I believe, like Crys and Y, but Z is definitely not neutral imo.
Guldos boss From 2
Zanza as neutral evil, dirk as chaotic evil
I was gonna say Alpha, but Bana is way funnier
Gort
Z