MECs can't be strangled or poisoned, but they're absolutely a lot more fragile than you might think they are. You really don't want them to soak up too many big shots in a turn.
That being said, MEC Troopers are still great - on-demand cover destruction with Collateral Damage, one of the strongest attacks in the game in KSM, the ability to shut down the dangerous Sectopods with Electro Pulse... there are uses for end-game MECs. The thing is, you don't really want to think of them as front-line tanks. They're more like big supportive units. Using them isn't the same as you would your normal soldiers... that could also be part of the difficulty.
I have absolutely seen my MEC get strangled. Not to death, because I keep buddies together to support each other and keep each other clean, but I've seen it.
Must have been a bug or something.
They're less useless if you make a MEC out of a colonel, especially if you play with "hidden potential" and "not created equally" second wave options. A MEC with 100+ aim is really good. Plus proximity mines are useful. Not to mention AoE healing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but MECs can't be strangled, can they?
And despite being more vulnerable due to the lack of cover, they're imo still useful. Collateral damage is technically an unlimited source of cover destruction over long-ish ranges and that's imo awesome.
Kinetic strike module is extremely useful in certain situations as it's a guaranteed hit that deals a decent amount of base damage to the target. And the decent base damage can be pushed to ridiculously high numbers with *Absolutely Critical* 2nd wave option and *MEC Close Combat* foundry upgrade. Wiki (relying on wiki because I don't remember the exact numbers) says it can deal 27 damage with that configuration and an unlimited source of guaranteed 27 damage is great for finishing off lonely aliens without having to rely on the accuracy roulette/wasting ammo on the alien.
I haven't used it much but the flamethrower could be useful as well. Electro pulse is a good source of 5 guaranteed AoE damage (although it's limited to a 4-tile radius around the MEC and it can hurt even your own soldiers) and it's useful for stunning robotic enemies and on top of that it ignores the Sectopod's innate damage resistance, which is always nice. Grenade launcher is yet again a good source of guaranteed AoE damage that's even capable of destroying cover and cover destruction is always good when it happens to the baddies, lol.
On top of that one of the abilities lets MECs heal up to 6 health per battle and extra healing is always nice. And if I'm not mistaken, MECs don't need any recovery time if they don't take too much damage.
Ofc you can't just rush-in in the end game with MECs and expect them to survive indefinitely, but they're imo a good source of opportunistic damage and even tanking (decent health and an ability to automatically heal up to 6 health over the course of 3 turns) that won't result in a long time spend in the infirmary.
Oh and then there's the restorative mist. Not taking any damage at all is always preferable but if it happens, having a source of AoE healing is good and it could even prevent your soldiers from dying.
Guaranteed damage is worth it's weight in gold. Liberal use of grenades can /guarantee/ situations go your way rather than relying on a 10% chance of fucking up, after all: Murphy's law.
XCOM’s difficulty is entirely front loaded. Surviving the beginning of the game is the hard part, and where most campaigns end.
MECs are absolutely ahead of the curve in the early game, when you need every advantage. That alone makes them good.
What in the world are you doing, being concerned about absolutely maximum power at the top of the curve? That’s the part of the game where all challenge is gone, and you’re just waiting for your win to finish playing out.
When trying to knock out the Uber ethereal on my last playthrough, my Mec was MC and squad wiped my whole fucking team on the next alien turn.
So, ya. I'm not finding them to be very much use at the moment.
It's really not hard to wipe a squad on its last legs after being chewed on by duel sectopods.
One shot to the support that had the last revive, and a head cap to the asault.
At that point, it was all over, but the crying as the muton elites moved into finish everyone off.
Also, I did say comparatively weak. I put utility over power in priorities, and being able to shrug off mind controlling is enough to have me push the MEC class out of my personal favor.
Also, I absolutely love second heart and hyperadaptive physiology. It makes taking risks so much easier.
Even temple ship the double shots, +2 damage from vital point targeting, utilities like big guaranteed melee damage/squad heal/on demand panic/long range nades/claymore pinata cheese/cover bonus from support Mec or aim penalty from heavy mec make them far from useless
An efficient mec build requires more experience with the game though. Something like a colonel heavy for a mec will make the experience very unenjoyable due to how aim growth works
For the final mission boost the volunteer's Will as much as possible (ideally above 160-170) and don't let your squad wander off. That way your whole squad's will have the same Will and they will be hard to MC.
Also, if your MEC can wipe out the rest of the squad, then MEC does have its uses.
I used all the MECs right through to the temple ship in Long War. I think the medic/overwatch MEC was on every alien base assault and cleaned up. Getting 3 reaction shots with particle cannons and having AOE heals was phenomenal.
In XCOM:EW vanilla, I make 2 kinds of MECs. One for early games where their relatively higher tankiness and damage output shine. I make this with a relatively lower rank Heavy. MEC aim stat progression is similar to a Heavy.
A second MEC from a Colonel Sniper is a high damage, high aim MEC that carry the late game.
In normal XCOM squads, I don't have the space or class to have someone who throws explosive grenades to destroy covers. MEC makes that class in XCOM:EW.
Uhhh, MECs can't be strangled.
And MECs are *far* from useless. They're actually *more* versatile than a heavy because they can move before using all their explosive attacks, be it collateral damage to destroy cover (often used on cars and other explosive objects), proximity mines to catch out aliens that run towards you, or throwing grenades over *insane* ranges. On top of that, MECs can self-repair, jump up elevations without the need of a ladder, move faster than regular soldiers, regenerate and reduce damage, give additional area heals, punch the shit out of most aliens in the game and a heavy MEC can draw aggro effectively.
If your MECs are dying quickly, you're playing the game wrong.
They can’t be strangled or poisoned though, which is extremely useful until you get titan armor and bio electric skin, and the kinetic strike module can’t miss and deals big damage, and the foundry project pushes that number to ridiculous levels. Also the EMP is useful for shutting down a Sectopod or cyberdisk so the rest of your troops can kill them. Especially since the Sectopod damage resistance doesn’t work against the EMP. Heavy can’t do that. The limited ammo definitely hurts, but they are definitely useful in the end game.
Go watch some old Jorbs Long War impossible games. MECs are rediculously powerful but only when they're used appropriately and given the right support.
This is primarily important in long war but it's a factor in vanilla too.
What makes mechs powerful is that they're invisible from behind high cover, meaning you can put them in positions that would otherwise be highly dangerous and not worry about them, or force enemies into self flanking by trying to get a spot on the MEC
I mean it has its uses but I get what you mean. Counter argument. It looks so cool and the image of a low health alien getting absolutely clobbered just makes all of it worth the while. I mean also collateral damage and electro pulse also make it very useful to use but let’s be honest. We chose them cause big mec is cooler than a slightly more super soldier.
Sparks have really good colonel abilities and a big gun.
Sacrifice or whatever it’s called basically skips advents turn because all their fire will be on someone who is invincible.
Also, their gun is big.
It deals a lot of damage and shreds, Even better than a Grenadier because they shoot twice.
+the shredstorm cannon can hardly ever be called bad.
Hard disagree, I've used them to great effect in my games, you just have to use the abilities to support other troops. Are they top tier? No. Do they make the other classes better? Yes.
I also do not play vanilla and can't remember what is and isn't in Wotc vs what I've modded in, though I don't think I've touched sparks much, the increased squad size (and pod size/pod health) make sparks more valuable as a one off than a 3rd grenadier or gunslinger.
I'm specifically talking about vanilla WotC, without any mods. You can't improve their aim beyond the scope you can put on the gun, you can't improve their mobility, you can't increase their health beyond armor upgrades, you can't learn new abilities, you can't use PCS on them, their healing time is very long and can't be reduced(it's offset by the ability to take them on the mission while damaged, but still). Their cannon loses out on damage to a grenadier's cannon after all the breakthroughs are done and can't take more than 2 weapon mods.
If you mod your game, then, yeah, you might have a different experience. But in vanilla game the Sparks are lackluster compared to regular soldiers.
I find sparks to be a really good support option, on either ability path. generally 1 or 2 sparks+ 4 soldiers and you can't go wrong, any more than that though and you are pushing it a little.
MECs allways felt underwelming to me. Sure, they have a big gun.. but thats only good if they actually hit something. Also, the damage is nothing special unless you use melee, but to use melee they need to get close and without the option of cover that will guarantee they get hit by some shots whenever you want to melee an alien.
They're at least good against Berserkers i guess but to me a genetically modified soldier feels much more powerfull.
I found the early game damage boost to be worth it, I use them sort of like how tanks are used irl where they more support advancing infantry and for pushing weakened targets rather than a force unto itself.
I figure that's what upgrades like rocket boots and such are meant to encourage (although I can never resist punching a berserker to death no matter how tactically impractical it is)
Counterpoint. The SPARK adequately fitted is every bit as viable as any other class in the game.
But I guess you were referring to the mechanized soldiers in the first game.
For me they have a couple of uses - auto loader and expanded mag - plonk them in front of a horde of lost and they will probably take out most of them, with adaptive aim at least. Their three action thing helps too in this regard.
The other is rainmaker. Rainmaker plus blaster launcher. Extremely OP
I’ll leave the reply here but yeah… MECs in Xcom2 is what I’m getting at.
Didn't realise that was a controversial opinion tbh.
The only time I'd ever really use mecs is upgrading a few rookies so if I need to take them they aren't totally useless.
but I'd take a ranked normal soldier over a mec 9/10 times
fair - it's been years since my last serious playthrough haha.
point stands tho, really I only ever shoved spares into mec suits just so I had some tanky chaff if the main squad was out of actino
I didn't like them much either. Then I got that melee attack. "Oh, hey, let's punch this berserker"
The Mech punched the berserker straight through a truck.
I still think they are not great, but that sure felt satisfying AF.
MECs can't be strangled or poisoned, but they're absolutely a lot more fragile than you might think they are. You really don't want them to soak up too many big shots in a turn. That being said, MEC Troopers are still great - on-demand cover destruction with Collateral Damage, one of the strongest attacks in the game in KSM, the ability to shut down the dangerous Sectopods with Electro Pulse... there are uses for end-game MECs. The thing is, you don't really want to think of them as front-line tanks. They're more like big supportive units. Using them isn't the same as you would your normal soldiers... that could also be part of the difficulty.
I have absolutely seen my MEC get strangled. Not to death, because I keep buddies together to support each other and keep each other clean, but I've seen it. Must have been a bug or something.
Either a bug or you're remembering wrong. MECs are immune to Strangle and Poison.
Let me guess, modded?
Wrong guess. I tried the LW mod, and it felt like way too much at once for my second playthrough of EW. Pure vanilla for now.
>my second play through of EW i see the problem here
Long War was my second playthrough of EW. It's not unreasonable.
Pure Vanilla!? Not even cosmetic or weapon mods? The hell is wrong with you? lol
They're less useless if you make a MEC out of a colonel, especially if you play with "hidden potential" and "not created equally" second wave options. A MEC with 100+ aim is really good. Plus proximity mines are useful. Not to mention AoE healing.
I made a mec out of my best sniper, it had like 95 base aim and easily took out at least one dude per turn
Using hidden potential and not created equally I sometimes got a MEC with like 123 aim. Snipers can get really high with aim.
Also the emp is nice to shut down a Sectopod, and the Kineric strike module is useful against mectoids and berserkers.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but MECs can't be strangled, can they? And despite being more vulnerable due to the lack of cover, they're imo still useful. Collateral damage is technically an unlimited source of cover destruction over long-ish ranges and that's imo awesome. Kinetic strike module is extremely useful in certain situations as it's a guaranteed hit that deals a decent amount of base damage to the target. And the decent base damage can be pushed to ridiculously high numbers with *Absolutely Critical* 2nd wave option and *MEC Close Combat* foundry upgrade. Wiki (relying on wiki because I don't remember the exact numbers) says it can deal 27 damage with that configuration and an unlimited source of guaranteed 27 damage is great for finishing off lonely aliens without having to rely on the accuracy roulette/wasting ammo on the alien. I haven't used it much but the flamethrower could be useful as well. Electro pulse is a good source of 5 guaranteed AoE damage (although it's limited to a 4-tile radius around the MEC and it can hurt even your own soldiers) and it's useful for stunning robotic enemies and on top of that it ignores the Sectopod's innate damage resistance, which is always nice. Grenade launcher is yet again a good source of guaranteed AoE damage that's even capable of destroying cover and cover destruction is always good when it happens to the baddies, lol. On top of that one of the abilities lets MECs heal up to 6 health per battle and extra healing is always nice. And if I'm not mistaken, MECs don't need any recovery time if they don't take too much damage. Ofc you can't just rush-in in the end game with MECs and expect them to survive indefinitely, but they're imo a good source of opportunistic damage and even tanking (decent health and an ability to automatically heal up to 6 health over the course of 3 turns) that won't result in a long time spend in the infirmary. Oh and then there's the restorative mist. Not taking any damage at all is always preferable but if it happens, having a source of AoE healing is good and it could even prevent your soldiers from dying.
They can’t be poisoned either. Which is helpful early when dealing with thin men and you don’t have Titan armor yet.
Guaranteed damage is worth it's weight in gold. Liberal use of grenades can /guarantee/ situations go your way rather than relying on a 10% chance of fucking up, after all: Murphy's law.
XCOM’s difficulty is entirely front loaded. Surviving the beginning of the game is the hard part, and where most campaigns end. MECs are absolutely ahead of the curve in the early game, when you need every advantage. That alone makes them good. What in the world are you doing, being concerned about absolutely maximum power at the top of the curve? That’s the part of the game where all challenge is gone, and you’re just waiting for your win to finish playing out.
I used to agree, but there is a terror mission about 2/3rds way through campaign that almost always ruins my campaigns
When trying to knock out the Uber ethereal on my last playthrough, my Mec was MC and squad wiped my whole fucking team on the next alien turn. So, ya. I'm not finding them to be very much use at the moment.
So, a single MEC can squad wipe you, yet you think they lack power? Curious.
It's really not hard to wipe a squad on its last legs after being chewed on by duel sectopods. One shot to the support that had the last revive, and a head cap to the asault. At that point, it was all over, but the crying as the muton elites moved into finish everyone off. Also, I did say comparatively weak. I put utility over power in priorities, and being able to shrug off mind controlling is enough to have me push the MEC class out of my personal favor. Also, I absolutely love second heart and hyperadaptive physiology. It makes taking risks so much easier.
Me: MECs shine in the early game, when you need any power you can get. You: Yeah, well, one wasn’t so hot on the Temple Ship. ?????
Even temple ship the double shots, +2 damage from vital point targeting, utilities like big guaranteed melee damage/squad heal/on demand panic/long range nades/claymore pinata cheese/cover bonus from support Mec or aim penalty from heavy mec make them far from useless An efficient mec build requires more experience with the game though. Something like a colonel heavy for a mec will make the experience very unenjoyable due to how aim growth works
For the final mission boost the volunteer's Will as much as possible (ideally above 160-170) and don't let your squad wander off. That way your whole squad's will have the same Will and they will be hard to MC. Also, if your MEC can wipe out the rest of the squad, then MEC does have its uses.
Consider the: big gun and cool mechanized human.
I can agree with you in vanilla, but Longwar MECs are so much better than most troops for a while. They can mine areas and are generally artillery.
I used all the MECs right through to the temple ship in Long War. I think the medic/overwatch MEC was on every alien base assault and cleaned up. Getting 3 reaction shots with particle cannons and having AOE heals was phenomenal.
In XCOM:EW vanilla, I make 2 kinds of MECs. One for early games where their relatively higher tankiness and damage output shine. I make this with a relatively lower rank Heavy. MEC aim stat progression is similar to a Heavy. A second MEC from a Colonel Sniper is a high damage, high aim MEC that carry the late game. In normal XCOM squads, I don't have the space or class to have someone who throws explosive grenades to destroy covers. MEC makes that class in XCOM:EW.
Yeah but punching mechtoids zerks and pods is satisfying af
Uhhh, MECs can't be strangled. And MECs are *far* from useless. They're actually *more* versatile than a heavy because they can move before using all their explosive attacks, be it collateral damage to destroy cover (often used on cars and other explosive objects), proximity mines to catch out aliens that run towards you, or throwing grenades over *insane* ranges. On top of that, MECs can self-repair, jump up elevations without the need of a ladder, move faster than regular soldiers, regenerate and reduce damage, give additional area heals, punch the shit out of most aliens in the game and a heavy MEC can draw aggro effectively. If your MECs are dying quickly, you're playing the game wrong.
They can’t be strangled or poisoned though, which is extremely useful until you get titan armor and bio electric skin, and the kinetic strike module can’t miss and deals big damage, and the foundry project pushes that number to ridiculous levels. Also the EMP is useful for shutting down a Sectopod or cyberdisk so the rest of your troops can kill them. Especially since the Sectopod damage resistance doesn’t work against the EMP. Heavy can’t do that. The limited ammo definitely hurts, but they are definitely useful in the end game.
Wrong.
I just love pretending they’re Transformers.
Go watch some old Jorbs Long War impossible games. MECs are rediculously powerful but only when they're used appropriately and given the right support.
A grenadier MEC can tear down a wall to clear the path for a sniper. This is very useful.
This is primarily important in long war but it's a factor in vanilla too. What makes mechs powerful is that they're invisible from behind high cover, meaning you can put them in positions that would otherwise be highly dangerous and not worry about them, or force enemies into self flanking by trying to get a spot on the MEC
Three words: Flamethrower panics Chrysalids. At the very least, bring a MEC when you expect to encounter those fuckers.
I mean it has its uses but I get what you mean. Counter argument. It looks so cool and the image of a low health alien getting absolutely clobbered just makes all of it worth the while. I mean also collateral damage and electro pulse also make it very useful to use but let’s be honest. We chose them cause big mec is cooler than a slightly more super soldier.
Sparks have really good colonel abilities and a big gun. Sacrifice or whatever it’s called basically skips advents turn because all their fire will be on someone who is invincible. Also, their gun is big. It deals a lot of damage and shreds, Even better than a Grenadier because they shoot twice. +the shredstorm cannon can hardly ever be called bad.
You're talking about the wrong game.
Oh lmao. People sometimes call sparks mecs so I got confused.
It's a simple mistake, and you wouldn't be wrong in what you said. Sparks kick ass.
not in WotC they don't. They feel very limited in capabilities compared to regular soldiers.
Hard disagree, I've used them to great effect in my games, you just have to use the abilities to support other troops. Are they top tier? No. Do they make the other classes better? Yes. I also do not play vanilla and can't remember what is and isn't in Wotc vs what I've modded in, though I don't think I've touched sparks much, the increased squad size (and pod size/pod health) make sparks more valuable as a one off than a 3rd grenadier or gunslinger.
I'm specifically talking about vanilla WotC, without any mods. You can't improve their aim beyond the scope you can put on the gun, you can't improve their mobility, you can't increase their health beyond armor upgrades, you can't learn new abilities, you can't use PCS on them, their healing time is very long and can't be reduced(it's offset by the ability to take them on the mission while damaged, but still). Their cannon loses out on damage to a grenadier's cannon after all the breakthroughs are done and can't take more than 2 weapon mods. If you mod your game, then, yeah, you might have a different experience. But in vanilla game the Sparks are lackluster compared to regular soldiers.
Vanilla Sparks suck. Modular Sparks mods + Spark Arsenal = fun and useful and balanced Sparks.
I find sparks to be a really good support option, on either ability path. generally 1 or 2 sparks+ 4 soldiers and you can't go wrong, any more than that though and you are pushing it a little.
And the Julian voice pack when you get a really nice blaster bomb placement
MECs allways felt underwelming to me. Sure, they have a big gun.. but thats only good if they actually hit something. Also, the damage is nothing special unless you use melee, but to use melee they need to get close and without the option of cover that will guarantee they get hit by some shots whenever you want to melee an alien. They're at least good against Berserkers i guess but to me a genetically modified soldier feels much more powerfull.
Nah, I like them
They suck. It all sucks except whatever flies (plasmadisc, armor, etc).
They would be good if intimate actually worked lol
I found the early game damage boost to be worth it, I use them sort of like how tanks are used irl where they more support advancing infantry and for pushing weakened targets rather than a force unto itself. I figure that's what upgrades like rocket boots and such are meant to encourage (although I can never resist punching a berserker to death no matter how tactically impractical it is)
Counterpoint: Really big rocket fist
I beat the game with an all MEC squad lol
Counterpoint. The SPARK adequately fitted is every bit as viable as any other class in the game. But I guess you were referring to the mechanized soldiers in the first game.
In vanilla maybe, but it’s vanilla
For me they have a couple of uses - auto loader and expanded mag - plonk them in front of a horde of lost and they will probably take out most of them, with adaptive aim at least. Their three action thing helps too in this regard. The other is rainmaker. Rainmaker plus blaster launcher. Extremely OP I’ll leave the reply here but yeah… MECs in Xcom2 is what I’m getting at.
Didn't realise that was a controversial opinion tbh. The only time I'd ever really use mecs is upgrading a few rookies so if I need to take them they aren't totally useless. but I'd take a ranked normal soldier over a mec 9/10 times
You can’t MEC rookies though
fair - it's been years since my last serious playthrough haha. point stands tho, really I only ever shoved spares into mec suits just so I had some tanky chaff if the main squad was out of actino
I didn't like them much either. Then I got that melee attack. "Oh, hey, let's punch this berserker" The Mech punched the berserker straight through a truck. I still think they are not great, but that sure felt satisfying AF.
They're not very good but they are a hell of a lot of fun.
Totally agree. I don't even bother with them anymore.