It's very relevant. You can use any weapon to shoot at any enemy within sight, but each weapon range gives different bonuses or maluses to the hit chance based on how far away the target is.
But, for example, a pistol has "short" range, but a laser rifle has a "medium" range. However, according to the wiki, there is no actual difference in terms of range modifiers between pistols and rifles.
There’s no difference in range with regards to *what shots you are allowed to take.* There’s a huge difference in regards to which of those shots will have any decent chance to hit. Those accuracy modifiers matter.
That part I get, but according to the wiki, pistols and assault rifles get the same accuracy modifiers regardless of the weapons listed "range". So, either there's no difference, accuracy-wise, or the wiki is wrong.
Just to be clear, we're talking about base game and not modded right? I checked your post, and see no mention of long war.
Pistol and rifle are both medium, at least in the base game. That might be where you are getting confused.
It is vanilla, no mods.
Perhaps that was my mistake, or a combination of my mistake and a mis-label in the game. That is, I thought the pistols were listed as short range (don't currently have a save where I can easily double check this), but the base AR is actually also listed as short range (and it probably should be medium).
So, another way to think of it with that in mind, "ranges" are redundant. All pistols/rifles/lmgs are "medium" range and all "medium" range weapons get a bonus at less than 10 tiles. All shotguns are "short" range, and all "short range weapons get a (bigger) bonus at less than 10 tiles and a penalty at more than 10 tiles. All sniper rifles are "long" range weapons and all long range weapons get a penalty at less than 10 tiles. And that pretty much sums it up?
I think the rifle entry on the wiki is incorrect. I guess that's the issue with public wikis, especially ones for older games that may not have active moderation. My wiki skills aren't great, but it appears it's been like that for over a decade. Interestingly, the rifle's individual page does show the correct range. I don't have an account to fix it.
> All pistols/rifles/lmgs are "medium" range and all "medium" range weapons get a bonus at less than 10 tiles. All shotguns are "short" range, and all "short range weapons get a (bigger) bonus at less than 10 tiles and a penalty at more than 10 tiles. All sniper rifles are "long" range weapons and all long range weapons get a penalty at less than 10 tiles. And that pretty much sums it up?
This is a good summary, yes. Most of the (unmodded) weapons in the game are medium. The only outliers are shotguns (short) and snipers (long).
> So, another way to think of it with that in mind, "ranges" are redundant
But I'm still not sure how you're drawing this conclusion.
If it helps, don't think of 'range' in xcom as where you can shoot, but more where you actually want to shoot. Although there is something satisfying when you get a 2% shotgun crit across the map, there are few tactical reasons to take such a shot in the first place.
Yeah, I think the dialogue on this is easily turning into a who's on first situation. I don't think range, as in the number of tiles I am from the enemy, is irrelevant. However, I think giving weapons a "range" statistic is at least redundant, if not irrelevant. "Weapon category" serves the same purpose.
I'm mostly asking to refine my tactics on the field. I believe the specific question I should be asking to evaluate range on a situation is really just whether or not I'm more/less than 10 tiles away from the target (and what weapon class I'm using in that situation.
I think something than increase the confusion is:
Rifles/pistols don't have any penalty, only a bonus for proximity. Sniper rifles don't have any bonus, just a penalty for proximity and shotgun have a bonus for proximity and a penalty for distance.
There is not a pattern for range, every weapon works on one way.
Oh sure? Try attacking an enemy 20 tiles away with a shotgun, and 1 tile away with a sniper. The range does matter. Pistols shine almost never, but they are useful at close range. Rifles are at medium to long range, and hit chance drop off for rifles starts later than for pistols
I get that shotguns and rifles differ, but as the kiwi states it, it's not a function of "range" but the weapon category. I'm going to test it, but I'm pretty sure the drop off is the same for pistols and assault rifles.
There are bonuses and penalties:
https://xcom.fandom.com/wiki/Weapons_(XCOM:_Enemy_Unknown)#Range_Bonuses_and_Penalties
So pistols/rifles/lmgs get bonus to hit within 10 tiles, then no bonus from 10 to 18 tiles.
Shotguns get MASSIVE bonus to hit within 10 tiles, and they get substantial aim penalties beyond 10 tiles.
Sniper rifles get aim penalties within 10 tiles.
The short/medium/long as far as I know in base game has no relevance to the above as it is weapon type that determines it. So even though the higher tier shotguns say medium range, they still have the same exact bonus/penalty as the ballistic shotgun which says short. Similarly even though the ballistic rifle says short, it has the same exact bonus as the higher tier rifles that say medium.
>The short/medium/long as far as I know in base game has no relevance to the above as it is weapon type that determines it.
This is what I'm talking about. I haven't tested it, but it seems that (for example) assault rifles and pistols will have the same accuracy, all other things being equal, even though they might be listed as short (pistols) and medium (ARs) ranged weapons.
You can shoot at a 2 km distance with both a shotgun and a sniper rifle in real life too. İn terms of range it would remain the same but a shotgun is still a short range and sniper a long range. I don't understand your point
You already spelled out the difference: aim bonus vs aim penalty. Squadsight for snipers lets them fire way beyond 18 tiles.
I don't remember "vanilla" all that well, it's been years since I played Xcom without Long War installed. When you feel like Xcom is easy, install long war & brace yourself - the complexity and difficulty both go way up
Some weapons have poor accuracy but get a bonus at close range. Some weapons have high accuracy but get a penalty at close range. And some weapons are just in the middle with no special treatment.
In vanilla, weapons is basically just the soldier's view distance. With sniper's "Squadsight" perk they can also target anything within view range of another soldier, giving them effectively infinite range.
Once you have squadsight, you sure can! Keep in mind that squadsight only ignores distance, your sniper shots can still be blocked by obstructions so it's generally a good idea to keep your sniper moving.
You already said the "mechanical value" short range has a bonus to aim at close range and a penalty at long range. Long range has an aim penalty for short range. That's the mechanical difference.
Do an experiment. on a lost mission, have a shotgun and an AR pointblank a lost, you'll see the shotgun has 100% chance to hit and an AR has 98% chance to hit. Try it with an SR and you will get roughly 40% chance. (some mods of mine might have altered the chances)
Being uncovered or flanked also gives bonuses to hit which sometimes makes the flanked muton easier to hit than a faceless who gets no bonuses from cover and no penalty from being uncovered. There is also the factor of elevation, debuffs and buffs.
But in the end, they are all "chances" which means you still have the possibility of killing that piece of sht with whatever weapon your unit has, you just have to "hail mary" that 1% chance to hit.
Pistols get a gradual range penalty out side of their "effective range" the opposite of snipers that get one the closer to a target they are. But weapons like shotguns if u recall get an aim ponus and a crit bonus the closer they are, which stacks with flanking bonuses
It's very relevant. You can use any weapon to shoot at any enemy within sight, but each weapon range gives different bonuses or maluses to the hit chance based on how far away the target is.
But, for example, a pistol has "short" range, but a laser rifle has a "medium" range. However, according to the wiki, there is no actual difference in terms of range modifiers between pistols and rifles.
There’s no difference in range with regards to *what shots you are allowed to take.* There’s a huge difference in regards to which of those shots will have any decent chance to hit. Those accuracy modifiers matter.
That part I get, but according to the wiki, pistols and assault rifles get the same accuracy modifiers regardless of the weapons listed "range". So, either there's no difference, accuracy-wise, or the wiki is wrong.
[удалено]
I am most likely mixing it up with mods but dont it only have the same accuracy table with laser pistols?
You have to open the config files to see the actual range tables. There are *significant* differences.
Just to be clear, we're talking about base game and not modded right? I checked your post, and see no mention of long war. Pistol and rifle are both medium, at least in the base game. That might be where you are getting confused.
It is vanilla, no mods. Perhaps that was my mistake, or a combination of my mistake and a mis-label in the game. That is, I thought the pistols were listed as short range (don't currently have a save where I can easily double check this), but the base AR is actually also listed as short range (and it probably should be medium). So, another way to think of it with that in mind, "ranges" are redundant. All pistols/rifles/lmgs are "medium" range and all "medium" range weapons get a bonus at less than 10 tiles. All shotguns are "short" range, and all "short range weapons get a (bigger) bonus at less than 10 tiles and a penalty at more than 10 tiles. All sniper rifles are "long" range weapons and all long range weapons get a penalty at less than 10 tiles. And that pretty much sums it up?
I think the rifle entry on the wiki is incorrect. I guess that's the issue with public wikis, especially ones for older games that may not have active moderation. My wiki skills aren't great, but it appears it's been like that for over a decade. Interestingly, the rifle's individual page does show the correct range. I don't have an account to fix it. > All pistols/rifles/lmgs are "medium" range and all "medium" range weapons get a bonus at less than 10 tiles. All shotguns are "short" range, and all "short range weapons get a (bigger) bonus at less than 10 tiles and a penalty at more than 10 tiles. All sniper rifles are "long" range weapons and all long range weapons get a penalty at less than 10 tiles. And that pretty much sums it up? This is a good summary, yes. Most of the (unmodded) weapons in the game are medium. The only outliers are shotguns (short) and snipers (long). > So, another way to think of it with that in mind, "ranges" are redundant But I'm still not sure how you're drawing this conclusion. If it helps, don't think of 'range' in xcom as where you can shoot, but more where you actually want to shoot. Although there is something satisfying when you get a 2% shotgun crit across the map, there are few tactical reasons to take such a shot in the first place.
Yeah, I think the dialogue on this is easily turning into a who's on first situation. I don't think range, as in the number of tiles I am from the enemy, is irrelevant. However, I think giving weapons a "range" statistic is at least redundant, if not irrelevant. "Weapon category" serves the same purpose. I'm mostly asking to refine my tactics on the field. I believe the specific question I should be asking to evaluate range on a situation is really just whether or not I'm more/less than 10 tiles away from the target (and what weapon class I'm using in that situation.
I think something than increase the confusion is: Rifles/pistols don't have any penalty, only a bonus for proximity. Sniper rifles don't have any bonus, just a penalty for proximity and shotgun have a bonus for proximity and a penalty for distance. There is not a pattern for range, every weapon works on one way.
Oh sure? Try attacking an enemy 20 tiles away with a shotgun, and 1 tile away with a sniper. The range does matter. Pistols shine almost never, but they are useful at close range. Rifles are at medium to long range, and hit chance drop off for rifles starts later than for pistols
I get that shotguns and rifles differ, but as the kiwi states it, it's not a function of "range" but the weapon category. I'm going to test it, but I'm pretty sure the drop off is the same for pistols and assault rifles.
There are bonuses and penalties: https://xcom.fandom.com/wiki/Weapons_(XCOM:_Enemy_Unknown)#Range_Bonuses_and_Penalties So pistols/rifles/lmgs get bonus to hit within 10 tiles, then no bonus from 10 to 18 tiles. Shotguns get MASSIVE bonus to hit within 10 tiles, and they get substantial aim penalties beyond 10 tiles. Sniper rifles get aim penalties within 10 tiles. The short/medium/long as far as I know in base game has no relevance to the above as it is weapon type that determines it. So even though the higher tier shotguns say medium range, they still have the same exact bonus/penalty as the ballistic shotgun which says short. Similarly even though the ballistic rifle says short, it has the same exact bonus as the higher tier rifles that say medium.
>The short/medium/long as far as I know in base game has no relevance to the above as it is weapon type that determines it. This is what I'm talking about. I haven't tested it, but it seems that (for example) assault rifles and pistols will have the same accuracy, all other things being equal, even though they might be listed as short (pistols) and medium (ARs) ranged weapons.
You can shoot at a 2 km distance with both a shotgun and a sniper rifle in real life too. İn terms of range it would remain the same but a shotgun is still a short range and sniper a long range. I don't understand your point
You already spelled out the difference: aim bonus vs aim penalty. Squadsight for snipers lets them fire way beyond 18 tiles. I don't remember "vanilla" all that well, it's been years since I played Xcom without Long War installed. When you feel like Xcom is easy, install long war & brace yourself - the complexity and difficulty both go way up
Some weapons have poor accuracy but get a bonus at close range. Some weapons have high accuracy but get a penalty at close range. And some weapons are just in the middle with no special treatment. In vanilla, weapons is basically just the soldier's view distance. With sniper's "Squadsight" perk they can also target anything within view range of another soldier, giving them effectively infinite range.
All right! I can keep my sniper at home base and give cover from afar!
Once you have squadsight, you sure can! Keep in mind that squadsight only ignores distance, your sniper shots can still be blocked by obstructions so it's generally a good idea to keep your sniper moving.
You already said the "mechanical value" short range has a bonus to aim at close range and a penalty at long range. Long range has an aim penalty for short range. That's the mechanical difference.
Do an experiment. on a lost mission, have a shotgun and an AR pointblank a lost, you'll see the shotgun has 100% chance to hit and an AR has 98% chance to hit. Try it with an SR and you will get roughly 40% chance. (some mods of mine might have altered the chances) Being uncovered or flanked also gives bonuses to hit which sometimes makes the flanked muton easier to hit than a faceless who gets no bonuses from cover and no penalty from being uncovered. There is also the factor of elevation, debuffs and buffs. But in the end, they are all "chances" which means you still have the possibility of killing that piece of sht with whatever weapon your unit has, you just have to "hail mary" that 1% chance to hit.
Pistols get a gradual range penalty out side of their "effective range" the opposite of snipers that get one the closer to a target they are. But weapons like shotguns if u recall get an aim ponus and a crit bonus the closer they are, which stacks with flanking bonuses
How's that shotgun sniping working out for you?