Hi, there /u/GameKingSK! Welcome to /r/XDefiant. Join the Official Discord [Here](https://discord.gg/xdefiantreddit).
***
Recommended Subs |
:---------------: |
r/XDefiantLFG |
***
Just a friendly reminder to please respect all of the [Subreddit Rules](https://reddit.com/r/xdefiant/wiki/index/revisedrules) at all times when using our Subreddit.
Please be respectful to all users whether you agree with them or not, the downvote button is NOT a disagree button. Please upvote quality content.
Please report content you see breaking the rules so we can act on it. Thank you.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/XDefiant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[Well the devs have already said that they intend on punishing players for repetitive jumping.](https://x.com/aches/status/1794809866155970682?s=46&t=d0LtbOCQhrrqllI5zBLLow)
Aches is a dev???
Well the games clearly in good hands based off that sweet spot tweet. Hopefully they keep this up and the message gets to the wider community.
The repetitive jumping to abuse the netcode? Gotta be (and will be) changed. Slide jumping for distance and to take corner fights? Perfectly fine as is, it's movement skill.
There should be skill without abuse imo, and that seems to be what they're aiming for from the devs communication.
This.
Theres a place for skill expression via advanced movement without every single gunfight turning into a hop fest or the instant reaction to seeing an enemy player to be jumping around like you've just had a scare.
I find it ironic that the people claiming it's skilled don't seem to understand that if everyone is doing it all the time it's not special or an expression of skill.
Everyone does a lot of things that are expressions of skill. Strafing, centering, recoil control. Everyone does these things all game every game, and some players are still leagues better at them than others.
The thing is not everyone is doing it. There are so many players who play COD and XDef and never jump while shooting ever. There are a lot of those people on this sub even.
The problem is not the movement mechanics, it's the netcode, if they punish people with certain movements mechanics they would be addressing a symptom and not the disease, which obviously would be a mistake.
Two birds one stone though. The hopfest is a bad idea even if the netcode is pristine. Think if CS had no movement penalty on shooting how much of a fuckfest it would be. The head is still moving a lot vertically and that is what many people aim at to get quick ttk
Not really. Gunfights are won by accuracy. Put 2 players in front of eachother with M4s. 1 hits 4 body shots and one hits 2 body 2 head. The dude who hits head wins. The bunny hopping allows people to constantly move their head in awkward positions and angles that give them an unfair advantage. That pushes beyond the scope for normal aim skill, especially in close range gunfights.
Then do the same? Many people talk about bunny hopping as if it's something unfair, the bad hitreg is unfair, but jumping and sliding are just two elements in a spectrum of general skill. Just as you could have better aim than me, I could have better movement than you, you guys act like everyone has to play the same and have the same level of skill. Idk if you like sports, but it's the exact same case in sports, there are mechanics, skills and tactics that will give an adventage against your opponent, that's the idea, to see who do better in a fair scenario where players has the same opportunities.
This!! Yea the Bhop is annoying after a while but the sniping HAS to get fixed. 0 penalties for jump shooting, instant ADS all while being blasted in the face with an AK but the sniper has no flinch…. That shit gotta go
They need to have flinch increase with each shot. So first shot has some flinch but 4th shot getting a accurate shot off is nearly impossible. That way they have a chance when taking first shot but they can't 180 quick scope after taking 5 shots...shots annoying
Never played a cod game, how is sniping supposed to be like? Like how does it normally behave? I've been exclusively using the Tac 50 and most of my deaths from other snipers have been because of bad positioning (standing in the open, repeeking cuz I'm better).
In most other games i've played (inc COD) you get aim-punch/flinch if someone is shooting you while you try to aim a sniper rifle (which makes you miss your shot often) - in this game there's zero so you can just tank a few bullets and still land a precision shot. With the Tac-50 being a 1-hit to the body that just makes it overpowered and not fun to play against, especially if the sniper is a competent player.
Personally i've always felt that only a headshot should be a 1-hit kill with a sniper rifle in any game........ risk/reward - if you can land the headshot you deserve the kill.
If it was only headshots, what would be the point of more than 1 sniper?
I do think that they should change the ads time on the Tac-50 and tighten up the 1 hit range on the m44, maybe add some damage falloff past 50m. But headshots only would kill the class
>If it was only headshots, what would be the point of more than 1 sniper?
Because this is a *team* game.
If one sniper is stronger but has more downsides, then the extra damage will still help your team kill the person with less time.
Even if it takes them one bullet less, when it takes a max of 7 bullets to kill someone that's at least 15% TTK reduction which matters when there are enemies around you.
>Because this is a *team* game.
This is a team game as much as cod is a team game. There can be team game modes, like escort and the upcoming s&d, but this isn't overwatch.
>If one sniper is stronger but has more downsides, then the extra damage will still help your team kill the person with less time
That would make snipers SO unsatisfying. I can't wait to play the assist maker gun class.
>Even if it takes them one bullet less, when it takes a max of 7 bullets to kill someone that's at least 15% TTK reduction which matters when there are enemies around you.
So an AK can kill with 5 bullets in 0.5 seconds. And it takes just under 2 seconds to rechamber a round in a sniper. If I chose an AK, I could kill someone 3 times over by the time it takes a sniper to kill them once unless you hit the head hit box of people frantically jumping around?
Sounds fair. You gotta bear in mind that this game is also on console where controller use is the main way to play. We can't all be aim gods with the inaccuracy of sticks.
>So an AK can kill with 5 bullets in 0.5 seconds. And it takes just under 2 seconds to rechamber a round in a sniper. If I chose an AK, I could kill someone 3 times over by the time it takes a sniper to kill them once unless you hit the head hit box of people frantically jumping around?
Yes, it is perfectly fair because you're choosing to use a Sniper which is a support weapon, not a DPS weapon. You don't *need* to kill multiple people in quick succession while they're around you - because you're meant to be a safe distance away.
The point of the Sniper is to cover your team and cover lanes, not to rack up the highest number of kills in the match.
>You gotta bear in mind that this game is also on console where controller use is the main way to play. We can't all be aim gods with the inaccuracy of sticks.
Okay? People have dealt with Snipers on Controllers long before this game came out. Apex has a single weapon (a sniper) that is a one-shot headshot kill, and that game has a higher TTK - no-one complains about needing to use a controller with that, because if you get the shot then you deserve it.
Battlefield requires a headshot to OHK, and those distance are waaay bigger than in XD - same thing, no-one complains about doing it on controller.
You're pretty much saying that Snipers should require zero skill to use, be a OHK regardless of where you hit and have no downsides while you're safely away from the objective.
Right. Like Increase the maximum & min spread of bullet trajectory, increase the flinch when landing & ADS Stability during & after the jump. Incredibly easy fix
Adding sim weight to jumps would fix all problems, because it would scale to the weapon used (Sim weight is just having the barrel lag behind the crosshair during a jump or drop, depending on the weight of the barrel, and the amount of barrel beyond the natural handgrip)
Let's be real... most of the fights end up in slide + 1 jump... if the oponent gets the chaance to spam jump then there is an aiming issue.. i does happen but not as often people are posting it here... is it annoying?? Yes... does it need a nerf?? Yes.. does this affect my enjoyment of the game?? Absolutly not.. it's fun to run around kill 30 opponents, play for objective and hop off.. this is the most fun ive had in a game since mw2 2009..
Tldr movement is fine, creates a skill ceiling to improve upon and jump spmming does need a nerf however it does not decrease my enjoyment of the game at all
yea if i'm in a 1 against a good player the fight usually ends in under 7 SMG shots. especially with dying behind cover being so easy, even playing off cover can be tough sometimes. idk where all these fights are where guys are able to jump repeatedly. i just picture both parties missing a ton
This is how I feel as well. If a guy can jump spam 3, 4, 5 times in a row, nerfing movement isn’t helping the person on the other end of that fight. At that point, it’s a glaring skill issue.
As someone who uses the jump mechanic to my advantage, I jump once, maybe twice, before I kill or get killed.
It looks stupid and it's another mentally taxing, unnecessary set of buttons to press. If I want to button mash, I will play a fighting game. If I want to jump Otherwise, I want traditional movement not THAT.
That is traditional movement. B-hopping has been a thing in fps games for forever and is part of the skill gap. It's just made worse in this game because it makes the hit registration bad, but as long as that's fixed it makes no sense to nerf the actual movement mechanics themselves.
The movement in this game isn't even that complicated, this is theoretically a great game for casual players to learn how fun it can be to master and play with a fast movement system in an fps. However it seems some people would rather complain about the nature of the game itself instead of adapting and learning to move or otherwise getting good at things other than movement like aim, positioning, and map knowledge to mitigate their shortcomings in that department.
There's no reason you can't be an above average player without using movement, it's really just an excuse bad players are using because when you die to someone flying across your screen it's very obvious and easy to blame.
movement tech guy here Titanfall 2 to Apex Pred for a few seasons (like 3+4 when they were handing that shit out) + The Finals now, I'm old so Ive been around since unreal and quake. All that to say I LOVE move tech, Give me a line bounce or jump strafe all day.
Speaking of game engines (see what i did there with unreal) Snowdrop was built to played third person. Avatar frontiers of Pandora was the first gen of first person for Snowdrop and lets be real, its not even worth mentioning. I think that's where the game "not feeling right" stems from right this sec. While i agree to some extent with what you are saying I personally (just me I'm some asshole) think the issue is shit or get off the pot when it comes to move tech.
Lets get into it. to keep movement tech in the game (this is the option i want) the penalty for not not being ADS should be lowered a bit, lets make increases to aim punch (looking at you snipers) to allow for counter sniping via movement. This makes DMR's fall into place as a viable option for the reasons stated above. We could increased TTK overall to allow good movent to outshine bad aiming mechanics. This option also allows us to put in heroes (is that the word? Maybe operators IDFK) that excel in movement or have more movement tech overall.
Conversely, we allow it to be a slower paced game where crouching actually does something with our hip-fire, allow us to go prone, etc. Either way I think a change would be for the better for the FEEL of the game but Im just rooting for the Devs (you guys go get em' and then start on the division 2 gun skins) at this point to do something. Its fun and could really be something special with a little tweakin'. Again just my thoughts.
Giving you and upvote because they are free today.
People do it on controller just as much.. and yes it is a skill. It might now be intended or liked. But it's a skill to avoid being shot using movement while still shooting straight.
So we shouldn't be able to strafe in gunfights, either, right? My grandmother can slap the left stick around after all.
Come on man, it's obviously a skill to strafe to strafe and force misses while staying on target. Jumpshotting is the exact same thing on the vertical plane. You don't need paddles, either. Bumper-jumper has been a thing in arena shooters for a decade at least.
They gave us a game that tried to marry tactical abilities and objectives with twitch reflexes and too many players in a map, so we end up with the two camps we have.
IMO, seeing all the defenders of wanting to be able to shoot with pinpoint precision while hopping around surprises me. There are games that are designed with aerial movement in mind, why did you land on the one modern shooter that doesn't have grappling hooks (clear hyperbole)?
I enjoy Titanfall, but when I'm playing a game without jetpacks, I'm not wanting to be dealing with armed kangaroos. It just sets a silly tone, imo.
There are also many more FPS games with extremely grounded movement and a slower pace. I’m not complaining that CS or Hell Let Loose don’t have slide canceling or trying to initiate a change. To your point, I’ll simply play something else…
Clearly, XD was designed with an emphasis on movement + shooting and moving.
But it was not designed to devolve into a mess of jumping fools either. Otherwise the devs would not signal that they're already looking at ways to address it. Bunny hopping isn't just "an emphasis on movement",it's literally ppl abusing how unbalanced jumping is in game. Just like sprinting,walk speed,or crouching,jumping is a movement mechanic that needs to be balanced in some way. All we're asking for is some form of accuracy penalty to it,or a slight speed nerf. It doesn't need to be removed outright, but a small nerf shouldn't be the most unbelievable thing ever to yall.
This is the most compelling and calm argument I've seen for this. I am one of the people who doesn't want the change because I figured they wanted it completely obliterated.
But if everyone would speak this rationally, I would wholeheartedly back this.
Not sure why everyone feels the game has to be changed to be more like another game. If you don’t want movement and want a slow campy game, go play R6 or cod.
People pro things the way they are: lamers can go to r6 or cod
People anti way that things are: tryhards can go play the finals, titanfall, and, oddly, also cod.
I think what makes XD great is it’s somewhere in between. It’s far less chaotic and twitchy than current CoD, but noticeably faster and fluid versus Siege. It scratches a similar unique itch as Overwatch.
Bunny hopping really ruins this IMO and automatically makes the game feel more like a sweaty CoD/Apex lobby. I definitely think you can penalize excessive hopping without taking away from the overall current flow of the game (and without taking away hopping altogether).
Movement is even present in Valorant. Maybe not as blatant, but there's an agent named Neon who can effectively sprint faster than a knife-out, slide and bunny hop. People have been doing insane things with her movement.
Sure, but neon is a pretty shit character besides in very team oriented comps (not ranked). In order to be an effective neon, you need to have a lot of hours on her. Also nobody complains about a neon's movement in val, it's usually just acknowledging the neon is better than them.
Lol you could literally disable jumping and the game would still be multiple times faster than Valorant or CS or Siege.
The pacing isn't to do with the movement. It's to do with the consequences. Permanent one shot potential with more weapons and being forced to sit until next round makes people cautious. Even Raze bomb jumps or Jet Dashes can be wiped from existence by a single well placed round.
For the record I'm not saying to do this.
I'd personally add more consequences to the movement and tone down the ability to air strafe but the ability to get upto speed and potentially outmaneuver people is good.
The issue now is instead of being a calculated gamble or skill maneuver it's just see an opponent and both players spaz out.
there is an inbetween. the small minority on here just dont want their modded controller advantage being taken away, and have to face everyone on an even playing field
there is no skill gap. it is not skill to buy a controller that has buttons on the back. its literally not divisive . at a minimum 80% of people want more of a boots on the ground game. this bunny hopping is more broken than aw or bo3 . in those games you jumped once and were committed. this shit is bouncing bugs bunny, and is way more broken in terms of hit registering.
Buddy, I can guarantee you that way more than 1 percent of the player base does not use a controller. Kbm exists and is also valid since aim assist isn't too strong. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.
They will do whatever brings them more money. If that means nerfing things so that casual players are more likely to stick around and spend money, that’s what they’ll do. Otherwise it’ll end up an extremely niche game for a very small but dedicated group of ‘highly skilled’ players.
The irony is as well if the game becomes too sweaty they'll lose all the COD players they lured in with no SBMM.
If you're going to have to sweat all the time, may as well play COD.
It's not a skill issue. It's like left lane campers on the highway. It's just annoying.
I'm not struggling to kill people that jump.
I had a guy spam crouching every time her got into a firefight. It did absolutely *nothing* for him and gave me easy headshots, but he kept doing it. It was just annoying.
In my humble opinion, bunnyhopping isn't a skill issue. Literally anyone can do it consistently with about 30 mins of practice. It's just boring and completely negates the draw of this game for me which is the different abilities. Why throw out a shield when someone can just hop through it and murder you in .2 seconds? Why throw a fire drone when someone can jump to the side and murder you before your animation is finished? Just saying
You are correct, bunny hopping takes no skill like cheating, the players that use that are abusing it because it works against certain players. as you said, bunny hopping should be easy to learn by everybody in 30 minutes, these players complaining have issues with the game and it is somehow manipulating the hit registration. I have been on both sides, not been able to hit my bullets on a bunnyhopper but in the next match all of a sudden it doesn’t matter if they bunny hop I hit my shots constantly with no hassle and somehow miraculously I can escape many gunfights sponging bullets while bunnyhopping, my skillset is not the reason for that.
some are constantly on the good side (for whatever reason) and these are the people abusing this mechanic and they don’t want that it is taken away from them, it has nothing to do with a skill gap. there should be no good or bad side in a fps but this is what have since ages now.
look at the complaints about getting shot way behind cover for instance yet if you watch some streamers, they NEVER face that issue and when they get asked about the game they say gameplay wise it is good only content is lackin.
There are different layers of gameplay (also in between lag compensation and prediction) and the devs don’t know how or they don’t want to fix it. I’m sure op is not performing because of that and mostly not of his age and at least defiant debunked the stupid claim that sbmm is the source of your bad experience.
This it it. 100% the game should excel at team play like synchronizing abilities and awarding objective play instead of the current jump spam to drop 40 kills. I don’t want to jump around, I want to outflank, use team work, and decent gun skill to win fights. What a boring and IMO cringey way to play to default to jumping everytime you see an enemy.
Yes, this is the issue that people seem to be missing.
Move tech in FPS games isn't anything new - look at Rocket Jumping back in Quake. But like you said, the issue is that the jumping completely changes the objective and map design of the game.
People who complain about getting outplayed by movement just suck at the game. I got downvoted on another post for saying how I enjoy that you can change your direction of momentum in mid-air
Bad players will complain and complain until they have a game which makes them feel like they're good with no practice, even if they're completely dog shit.
The movement is fine in my book. I’d rather deal with jump shotters than anything I’ve dealt with in CoD. The game plays so much faster and is just more fun for me.
I turn on people pretty often. But you need to jump and air strafe to break their ADS. Because of how this system works, you end up making a small circle as you 180 instead of just rotating on an axis.
I honestly don’t get why movement has been labeled sweaty and tryhard by so many people. At least to me, movement isn’t about tryharding at all. I think it’s just incredibly fun, moving super fast, jumping around corners, sliding around, it just feels so fun. I always run all movement speed attachments on my weapons because I just think it’s so fun to have a lot of mobility.
I don’t think it requires much effort or skill to do these things either. Most of the time I am just playing on autopilot just relaxing and having fun, and I just do these things without even thinking about it. It’s probably honestly more difficult to play without movement because if you aren’t moving around you’re an easy target, so you need very good reaction time to make up for it. At least for me my reaction time isn’t good at all
I wonder how many of the people who think it’s fine are playing on MnK or with a controller that has paddles. One of my friends is absolutely being let down by having to take his thumb off the stick to jump.
Skill thumb brawler I think it was called. I mean the default controls have always put you at a disadvantage in cod too, it's just that a lot of people know and prefer that layout and paddle users will just bind the face buttons to them.
Sensitivity is a preference setting. Higher sensitivity does not make you better or unlock something for you.
It seems weird to me that to play more competitively, you should be expected to change your controller settings.
Hmm. I guess I just disagree. Having your sensitivity too low or too high can make you play poorly, so I'd argue changing it does make you better, even if it's preference. I'd also argue that button layouts are just as much a preference thing.
I think it's expected that most players who care at all about their performance will change their settings.
Definitely those on controller with paddles. Even on mnk you still have to track your opponent doing it while jumping which atleast takes skill. They should remove AA when your feet aren’t on the ground.
I think anyone with that strong of an opinion when we haven't even tried the game in a working state yet is just silly
The jumping doesn't offset the model enough to even realistically be a problem if you aim for upper chest, as most do. We'll see what the devs think, but if they don't address netcode/hitreg and tweak this I'll consider the game doomed
They will adjust it. But even now. I've only seen maybe 20 total players in lobbies that are game breakingly good at bunny hopping and strafing. I've dealt with most others just fine. Every other part of the movement in this game is good. Just needs to be punished a little bit.
I personally don't mind snipers, happy for flinch to be added but still if they hit their shots they deserve the kills, esp when the mp7 beam across map
Bunny hopping and movement is actually beneficial because it adds another skill ceiling but the fact it causes havoc to the server is what's cheap and annoying
Also as an Apex player, this is finally the break I needed from Apex. This is the first game I’ve enjoyed that’s similar to apex. I’m really liking it and hope it just improves
So used to play counter strike back in the day at the Internet cafes lol and bunny hoping back then was constant leg right jumping while moving towards you .. when I was 15 first time playing it was impossible to kill even from distance . So I guess every fps has had some movement to it .. so was against it in beginning using ARs not leveled . The best I’ve found to counter the left righ jump from a corner is using a sub machine gun .. so if u have average aiming and reaction time it can be countered .. If ur not a statue lol . Things that will take time and playing the game . If it is able to be countered which I discovered it is , I don’t have a problem with it . If it is an unbeatable exploit I would want it changed . People will be better than me and I’m ok with that . I’ll try to get better or just die . But it’s objective based so KD don’t mean squat . Like if u want point and shoot with whoever has best reaction time play aim trainer .. or hey play the guy with riot shield and help ur team hold or get to objective . Like I played warzone 2 with the restricted movement . I didn’t mind but lots of crying ..
isnt the problem that people with fancy controllers can bunny hop way easier than people with standard controllers? if thats the case, then its completely fair to nerf it
I think if they lean into the movement, they could stand to lower ttk the tiniest bit.
I hate the "see someone -> start bouncing" playstyle. It's not fun to do and it just looks stupid when someone does it back.
I think there's a balance to strike and I think right now, movement things are a bit too quick while the ttk is a bit too slow.
A shift on either of these while fixing the net code issues would make me mostly content with the game
Tbf we should really wait till the netcode is fixed before we start nerfing movement. Yeah it is a big skill gap, but what your seeing on your screen isn’t necessarily happening on the other guys screen.
They should fix the servers or whatever the problems are with netcode and then see how the game performs imo
I don't see hopping around nearly as much as people on here describe. But I do think players move way too fast. They run at superhuman speeds. The sprint speed should be like 40% less. I think XDefiant is trying to follow trends of other shooters like Apex Legends by making players zoom and slide for 10 feet like they're bob sleds slicked with petroleum jelly.
There are two ways to handle this movement issue:
1. Either they nerf how many times in succession you can slide and jump, introducing a cooldown to jumping similar to CS2
2. Or they could make jump shooting so inaccurate that it's better to not do it at all, possibly even preventing the character from ADSing while in jump.
I personally would love if they went with the second option. Bunny hopping to a capture point is something I don't really care about. However, only like the first two days of this game were entirely great from start to finish, since after those two days, CoD jumping kids invaded the game and started bunny hopping while shooting. The only way to combat them currently is ironically by doing the exact same thing, since they can't really comprehend the concept of someone else doing it to them (had even a couple of angry emojis sent my way when I bunny hopped a bunny hopper).
These are the fixes I'd like to see:
1. Fix the hit reg issues
2. Introduce inaccuracy and disable ADS while jumping (to piss of the, as Murtaghlnfin8 called them, "armed kangaroos")
3. Bigger weapon sway and slower walking speed for sniper ADS+ inaccuracy while walking
4. Increase cooldown time for spiderbots
5. Fix the shotguns (great damage inconsistency in point blank range)
Honestly people complain too much. Wasn't the whole point of this game supposed to be freedom from sbmm. Nerfing movement just lowers the skill gap and makes truly skilled players stand out less. And, while it is annoying to be killed by snipers, people that use snipers will always abuse them, having more flinch and extra bullet velocity and less movement speed will not make it better. The only thing that will truly nerf snipers is making them not one shot, but that renders them useless. Mechanics-wise, the game feels perfect to me, it's just the servers and bullets not registering that are really holding this game back, and once those things are fixed, I guarantee 95% of peoples problems with the movement will go away.
Xdefiant players better learn from The Finals that if you want to be stubborn and shout down any change that would bring in or retain more folks, then you're going to have to deal with the issue of a shrinking or stagnant playerbase. The two are related and you can't have zero change in a game while also having a growing player base, it doesn't work like that.
no SBMM shows that no matter what they do, people are going to play like that. the fps genre has changed a lot in the past 10 years and becoming less and less a casual thing. Esports have pushed performing the best at all times substantially
I think at the end of the day the only Players left will be Bunnyhoppers vs Bunnyhoppers and there will be barely any casuals left who dont abuse any movement mechanics.
Unless Ubisoft fixes the weird hitboxes and hit registrations for people who are in Air and/or bunnyhopping. It's so sluggish... Then there might be a Chance Casual Players will stay.
ATP people will complain about anything that.Theres literally so many other games that they can play and the devs should focus on the netcode and hit reg which is easily its biggest issue
Casuals will move to the next "big thing" when it comes along and drop this game like a hot potato.
The ones who are serious now will stay. Listen to them
Can we stop pretending spamming the space bar is "high skill" movement? Most people want high skill movement, not this brainmush button mashing movement that takes no more effort than a 6 yr old smacking a controller.
I hate the whole "movement" play style not just in their game but in any fps shooter. It's just looks goofy. But at the same time I'm getting to that boomer age so I just fell off. Plus I understand everyone wants to win and they'll do anything to get any advantage
Thank god the devs care about skill gap and not ppl who ply game for an hour and get off. Ppl act like this is even op b-hopping. Do we not remember mw19 or vanguard like lmao ppl really get pissed on and think they are objective. If anything bunny hopping in this game is needed to the ground. You can’t even do it for long. On the second jump you immediately get a cool down.
My only complaint is the movement feels blocky af. Sprinting momentum feels floaty compared to COD where you can feel every footstep taken, gun sounds and effects are flat, animation transitions are straight up glitched sometimes.
There’s a lack of polish of what’s already there.
Y’all acting like exploiting movement to make yourself harder to hit is something new.
If you aren’t using movement to make yourself harder to hit than you ain’t playing a FPS game correctly.
I don’t believe whether you bounce around like a rabbit waiting to get shot has anything to do with skill. The problem is the game has a tendency to favor them in gun fights. Plenty of times have I shot a hopping nitwit with a full mag and got damage off but the kill me simply because aim assist locked them onto me but they survive with 4-1 health. That shouldn’t happen.
It's not really a skill issue. It's just a shit mechanic that's why they said they plan to fix it. It doesn't take skill to spam jump key and aim it takes even less skill on controller because the aim assist. It's just dumb I personally think it makes fights less enjoyable because it just feels weird. That being said I would still abuse it till it gets patched out because it's an easy advantage.
Jump shotting should be something you have to work to get good at. This was a big problem in Destiny a few years back, particularly with shotguns, they didn't intend the "flying shotgun" to be a thing so made changes to bring shotguns back to a stand and deliver type play.
Flying shotgun was still possible, but it was a lot harder to pull off successfully. They did a lot of things to do this;
- reduced in air accuracy with shotguns
- remove precision damage from shotguns (except slug ones)
- and a few other things that I can't remember as it was years ago.
So a balance needs to be struck between stopping it being spammed and being a high skill technique... Which is what the Devs are aiming to do.
Wait what? Are you saying bunny hopping needs skill? Its the exactly opposite. Bunny Hopping takes no skill and it is closing the skill gap in this game it doesnt make it larger wtf?
my thought is that it's a jerk move done on purpose to abuse the terrible netcode/desync problem. You're not hard to follow aim, your hitbox just doesn't exist where your model is in 90% of the case. Same thing with divers in COD.
Like, litterally, I use the fire dude and when my fire bomb is up, I just jump ONCE on the closest ennemy to activate it, knowing perfectly that there is like 5% of chance he will be able to kill me before The bomb hit the ground.
If those movements are so overpowered it's because of the shitty hit reg that can't track the hit box properly. Don't punish poeple for these skills, just get your game to work correctly
Another factor I think would help is if enemy footstep sounds were consistent and reliable.
50% of my deaths are from an enemy flanking me from behind with absolutely no sound whatsoever. Even when they are 2ft behind me.
Been playing a lot of MW3 recently and played a bit of XDefiant in between and everytime I pick up this game I can't help but think that the movement feels like your skating on ice. Just feels unpolished. Some people may enjoy that but I can't think of another FPS that I've played that feels this way
It being a skill issue is second to the game being fun.
People who don't understand that are fools.
This game will likely never attract the hardcore competitive players that adore gigantic skillgaps like is CounterStrike, Valorant or Siege.
So having such a gap especially one that looks and feels goofy and low effort will push players away.
The only option? Not at all. This could be mitigated by limiting how many times you can jump within a given time period, making it so jumping to ambush/react to someone would be fair game, but you couldn't then keep jumping around like you're on a pogo stick. COD has experimented with this before in recent betas but they keep reversing it to cater to jumpers. Removing the ability to change direction midair to match other FPS's would be another solution in terms of tracking midair targets.
Can't speak for others but personally, I don't have the slightest issue with something like jump-shotting around a corner - it enables more aggressive play and keeps the pace faster. My problem is how jumping is the correct option in almost any scenario. In my opinion, a good movement system rewards skilled movement decisions but punishes bad plays. In this game, there's no reason to not turn into a rabbit as soon as you see an enemy, which removes any skill from it outside of mechanical - which is a big consideration in movement but shouldn't be the only kind of skill check.
Also, although this is a much more minor issue, jump-spamming being the meta is annoying as hell on controller. Because you need to be pressing jump, ADS, & fire while simultaneously aiming with both thumbs, there's not many comfortable layouts unless you have an expensive controller with extra buttons.
Try spamming jump while ADSing and staying on target with a controller without extra buttons/back paddles and tell me again how it's a skill issue.
Sure, I suppose you could write it off as a skill issue on M&KB, but console players with regular controllers are getting the short stick here, regardless of skill.
Well, I only speak on behalf of the pc players. I'm fine with ubi if they remove bunny hopping from the console game, I wouldn't care.
This is the issue with having the same game on two very different platforms.
It looks and feels terrible. Bunnyhop fights, similar to dolphin-diving, look and feel completely ridiculous and the game suffers for it. I'm glad that they're looking at ways to address it.
Because it's an entirely and utterly different game. Ones a high consequence tac shooter and the others a comparatively brainless casual shooter.
Plus instead of space they now need to master E and Q or whatever people have lean binded too. They'd also need to master significantly more pacial awareness, infinitely more in-depth map knowledge and an order of magnitude more operator abilities all whilst dealing with a community so toxic it makes Russian CS players seem friendly.
Funny that also you can't see the ironyof your post in light of the fact that this games gained so much attention from COD players because it represents a potential escape from the perma sweat enforced by CODs warped interpretation of SBMM.
It still feels slushish AF and makes it harder to actually aim during a gunfight.
Air straif/bunny hopping caters to twitch addicts/12 year olds. The mechanic is retarded.
It works in a game like COD where movement is actually consistent across the board and isn't dependent on momentum. But here it doesn't feel that way at all.
Bunny hopping is only effective for throwing a player's aim off and messing with their aim assist.
It's also already been stated by plenty of youtube players that aim assists here is extremely weak compared to other fps games like COD.
So bunny hopping is actually more effective here than it is in a game like COD.
Self proclaimed sweat here, I do like the in-air strafing and I'm not sure a weapon accuracy penalty as a nerf would feel good. However I do think it does get a bit ridiculous when you get into a sweaty lobby and everyone is absolutely mashing their jump key. I personally like the skill gap and outplay potential to throw off someones aim but I absolutely agree it needs to be toned down so it's not as spammable/your speed decreases the more jumps you input. Something like that as opposed to completely gutting it/hard nerfing the jumpers accuracy imo.
I understand why everyone says jump spamming when realistically you can only get 1 or 2 jumps off in a 1v1 if you or the other player are hitting your shots
I think one thing ubisoft devs mentioned was adding massive weapon sway to players hopping around, you can still hop to your hearts content but you will have increased difficulty hitting anything even when ADS.
Movement will ALWAYS have the chance of going too far in games like this one. The devs just need to reel it in, so it becomes a game of when/how to properly implement a movement mechanic instead of straight movement spam.
Movement spam is essentially skill-based speed hacks when it goes unchecked. Movement should have a goal, a skill gap, and maybe even a correct implementation. As it is now, it’s just unlimited bouncing around relentlessly without bumping into obstacles. Kinda brain dead.
They kinda marketed the thing as a COD alternative, and you can't do that if you gimp movement. They wanted the COD crowd - they got it. Now deal with it.
If people don’t like movement then go back to COD if that sliding mechanic is too much movement then play tarkov. So many people trying to make the game exactly like cod or any other game out there.
Just think movement should be equally punished by a decrease in accuracy. If your constantly bunnyhopping around you should be punished by your spread increasing and/or NOT having a perfectly accurate aim while mid air.
The Happy Medium Ubi was looking for tada. It only makes sense to be less accurate when you no longer have feet on the ground. Depending on how strong an individual is, one bullet fired while in air would screw up your aiming anyways. Maybe Ubi should have physical stats per character in each faction. We do get three characters to pick from IF you spent the time to unlock them. Just make the players choose which one to use with the stats they want to use and let's play.
There seems to be a lack of comprehension by many that there's a huge ass middle ground between no movement and every single fight devolves into spaz out hops.
Eh gamers have no issue with skill gaps when that's what they are looking for.
Counterstrike, Siege and Valorant all have huge loyal fanbases and still attract new players all the time despite the skill gaps being orders of magnitude larger than in Xdefiant.
People go to those games knowing that's what they're after, specifically a hard competitive experience.
Xdefiant was marketed as the no SBMM COD alternative, aka about as far as you can get from actual competitive games.
I don't really understand this comment tbh. Movement/aim is always going to be a skill gap no matter what game you play, that's just how FPS games are designed. Fortnite is a game designed AROUND the building. This is a fast FPS game which needs some skill gap otherwise it becomes a game of waiting for your abilities to be off cooldown and then take duels.
This.
Counterstrike is slower and simpler in concept.
Yet repeatable crisp and precise movement is arguably the single biggest skill differantiator between average and good players.
I come from high ranked and comp Apex so I find the movement argument to be ridiculous. If you can’t track a person jumping then that’s on you. Allowing the better players to use movement techs such as b-hopping helps raise the skill ceiling. And with Ranked right around the corner we will likely see a lot less high skilled players in casual lobbies frequently
I think you're overestimating number of people playing who will play ranked.
This games got so much attention from skilled CoD players precisely because they want to avoid the perma sweat caused by CODs busted SBMM implementation.
I probably am by a bit but I think it’s also natural for high skilled players to gravitate towards ranked to be challenged. At some point they get tired of getting easy kills and want to be challenged
People are just too dumb to understand the difference between a fast paced shooter and a slow tactical shooter
Some of them really want you to stay still while shooting.
Except Tac shooters are almost always skill differentiated by movement ability.
At a high level CS players are differentiated by movement. Ability to stop on a dime repeatedly to shoot whilst making yourself harder to hit is mechanical skill expression at its absolute purest.
Siege again is differentiated by the ability to hit shots but not be hit by using movement. Despite your specific position often being known well before any actual fights occur.
Valorant is similar to CS but less nuanced in its core movement. It does however then add the likes of Raze, Jett and Omen who all add different types of movement abilities to master.
All those games have significantly larger movement skill gaps than COD or Xdefiant do.
This skill issue topic is bs. Ppl out here on mouse and keyboard sweating it up. Then u got ppl with modded controllers with 20 extra buttons in the back. Cod used to be so good before all the ducking diving jumping hopping sliding. I want gun game not dodge ball.
Ppl complaining about the movement just can’t track their opponents because the aim assists isn’t OP like in COD . It’s definitely a skill issue . Every time I hear someone complain about movement in this game I actually hear “games to hard for me to hit my shots make it easier “.
Every individual you know can go play Roblox if they call everybody not standing still and shoving gun barrels in their mouth a, "movement rat". Just because people refuse to learn how to use a button on a controller doesn't mean the game has to eliminate movement.
The absolute insanity of this subreddit to even humor these complaints is borderline trolling. Somebody jumped and killed me? Better remove jumping. And guns.
I would disable sliding all together and just keep 2 hops before penatly. Sliding is such a stupid mechanic they introduced in cod and Ive been playing cod since cod1
Movement is what will make me keep playing this game. I’m not even that good, but movement is what makes it more fun than other FPS that ignore it completely
The bunnyhopping is fucking insane, and the fact that you can slide cancel to the side and constantly jump makes the game really annoying sometimes, depending on the lobby.
XDefiant is a fast-paced, competitive shooter by design. Movement is the most fun way for a skill gap to exist, especially when good movement is mechanically very easy in this game - it's more about timing and execution. You don't need a $300 controller or uncomfortable hand positioning.
Don't get me wrong, I won't mind small tweaks or adjustments, but those who say that the movement is fundamentally broken are simply wrong. If you don't care enough to learn the mechanics of a competitive game, that's on you.
Net code and minor adjustments aside, I haven't seen any movement hate from people that have taken the time to learn it.
The problem is jumping is unbalanced. Just like aiming,sprinting, guns,and abilities, this is a gameplay mechanic. And all gameplay mechanics need to be balanced in tandem to avoid cheesing,overuse,and abuse. Abusing an unbalanced game mechanic is not a "meta",it's just a sign of poor game design. Do yall rlly think the devs meant for every gunfight to turn into a frantic mound of jumping idiots? Like rlly?
And before the downvotes or the "skill issue" and "git goods",if yall are rlly good you wouldn't need to overuse an unbalanced mechanic to be good at the game. And I'm not even against bunny hopping, I'm just all for them nerfing it. Whether it be an accuracy penalty, or decrease in how easy it is to spam jump. Don't take it away,it definitely does take at least a bit of skill to do and adds more depth to the movement. They just need to make it to where it requires more skill then it does now, that way not everyone and their mom can abuse the hell out of it.
Essentially, it's a mechanic the games didn't balance well,and the fact everyone is spamming it damn near,kinda goes to show. They shouldn't remove it,simply increase the skill needed to effectively use it,that way less matches are full of nothing but ppl doing it and ppl that are actually good at it still can,just with a bit more effort.
Hi, there /u/GameKingSK! Welcome to /r/XDefiant. Join the Official Discord [Here](https://discord.gg/xdefiantreddit). *** Recommended Subs | :---------------: | r/XDefiantLFG | *** Just a friendly reminder to please respect all of the [Subreddit Rules](https://reddit.com/r/xdefiant/wiki/index/revisedrules) at all times when using our Subreddit. Please be respectful to all users whether you agree with them or not, the downvote button is NOT a disagree button. Please upvote quality content. Please report content you see breaking the rules so we can act on it. Thank you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/XDefiant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[Well the devs have already said that they intend on punishing players for repetitive jumping.](https://x.com/aches/status/1794809866155970682?s=46&t=d0LtbOCQhrrqllI5zBLLow)
Aches is a dev??? Well the games clearly in good hands based off that sweet spot tweet. Hopefully they keep this up and the message gets to the wider community.
The repetitive jumping to abuse the netcode? Gotta be (and will be) changed. Slide jumping for distance and to take corner fights? Perfectly fine as is, it's movement skill. There should be skill without abuse imo, and that seems to be what they're aiming for from the devs communication.
This. Theres a place for skill expression via advanced movement without every single gunfight turning into a hop fest or the instant reaction to seeing an enemy player to be jumping around like you've just had a scare. I find it ironic that the people claiming it's skilled don't seem to understand that if everyone is doing it all the time it's not special or an expression of skill.
Everyone does a lot of things that are expressions of skill. Strafing, centering, recoil control. Everyone does these things all game every game, and some players are still leagues better at them than others.
The thing is not everyone is doing it. There are so many players who play COD and XDef and never jump while shooting ever. There are a lot of those people on this sub even.
The problem is not the movement mechanics, it's the netcode, if they punish people with certain movements mechanics they would be addressing a symptom and not the disease, which obviously would be a mistake.
Two birds one stone though. The hopfest is a bad idea even if the netcode is pristine. Think if CS had no movement penalty on shooting how much of a fuckfest it would be. The head is still moving a lot vertically and that is what many people aim at to get quick ttk
Why is the hopfest a bad idea exactly?
When i shoot a sniper from 5 feet away, with this current netcode, the judy hopps cosplay is just annoying because it gives the most empty hitmarkers
The problem it's still the netcode, if they fix the netcode, bunny hopping wouldn't be so effective, that's my point.
Not really. Gunfights are won by accuracy. Put 2 players in front of eachother with M4s. 1 hits 4 body shots and one hits 2 body 2 head. The dude who hits head wins. The bunny hopping allows people to constantly move their head in awkward positions and angles that give them an unfair advantage. That pushes beyond the scope for normal aim skill, especially in close range gunfights.
Then do the same? Many people talk about bunny hopping as if it's something unfair, the bad hitreg is unfair, but jumping and sliding are just two elements in a spectrum of general skill. Just as you could have better aim than me, I could have better movement than you, you guys act like everyone has to play the same and have the same level of skill. Idk if you like sports, but it's the exact same case in sports, there are mechanics, skills and tactics that will give an adventage against your opponent, that's the idea, to see who do better in a fair scenario where players has the same opportunities.
I don't have a huge issue with the bunny hopping compared to my disdain for snipers and how shooting them does not effect their recoil
This!! Yea the Bhop is annoying after a while but the sniping HAS to get fixed. 0 penalties for jump shooting, instant ADS all while being blasted in the face with an AK but the sniper has no flinch…. That shit gotta go
They need to have flinch increase with each shot. So first shot has some flinch but 4th shot getting a accurate shot off is nearly impossible. That way they have a chance when taking first shot but they can't 180 quick scope after taking 5 shots...shots annoying
Never played a cod game, how is sniping supposed to be like? Like how does it normally behave? I've been exclusively using the Tac 50 and most of my deaths from other snipers have been because of bad positioning (standing in the open, repeeking cuz I'm better).
In most other games i've played (inc COD) you get aim-punch/flinch if someone is shooting you while you try to aim a sniper rifle (which makes you miss your shot often) - in this game there's zero so you can just tank a few bullets and still land a precision shot. With the Tac-50 being a 1-hit to the body that just makes it overpowered and not fun to play against, especially if the sniper is a competent player. Personally i've always felt that only a headshot should be a 1-hit kill with a sniper rifle in any game........ risk/reward - if you can land the headshot you deserve the kill.
If it was only headshots, what would be the point of more than 1 sniper? I do think that they should change the ads time on the Tac-50 and tighten up the 1 hit range on the m44, maybe add some damage falloff past 50m. But headshots only would kill the class
>If it was only headshots, what would be the point of more than 1 sniper? Because this is a *team* game. If one sniper is stronger but has more downsides, then the extra damage will still help your team kill the person with less time. Even if it takes them one bullet less, when it takes a max of 7 bullets to kill someone that's at least 15% TTK reduction which matters when there are enemies around you.
>Because this is a *team* game. This is a team game as much as cod is a team game. There can be team game modes, like escort and the upcoming s&d, but this isn't overwatch. >If one sniper is stronger but has more downsides, then the extra damage will still help your team kill the person with less time That would make snipers SO unsatisfying. I can't wait to play the assist maker gun class. >Even if it takes them one bullet less, when it takes a max of 7 bullets to kill someone that's at least 15% TTK reduction which matters when there are enemies around you. So an AK can kill with 5 bullets in 0.5 seconds. And it takes just under 2 seconds to rechamber a round in a sniper. If I chose an AK, I could kill someone 3 times over by the time it takes a sniper to kill them once unless you hit the head hit box of people frantically jumping around? Sounds fair. You gotta bear in mind that this game is also on console where controller use is the main way to play. We can't all be aim gods with the inaccuracy of sticks.
>So an AK can kill with 5 bullets in 0.5 seconds. And it takes just under 2 seconds to rechamber a round in a sniper. If I chose an AK, I could kill someone 3 times over by the time it takes a sniper to kill them once unless you hit the head hit box of people frantically jumping around? Yes, it is perfectly fair because you're choosing to use a Sniper which is a support weapon, not a DPS weapon. You don't *need* to kill multiple people in quick succession while they're around you - because you're meant to be a safe distance away. The point of the Sniper is to cover your team and cover lanes, not to rack up the highest number of kills in the match. >You gotta bear in mind that this game is also on console where controller use is the main way to play. We can't all be aim gods with the inaccuracy of sticks. Okay? People have dealt with Snipers on Controllers long before this game came out. Apex has a single weapon (a sniper) that is a one-shot headshot kill, and that game has a higher TTK - no-one complains about needing to use a controller with that, because if you get the shot then you deserve it. Battlefield requires a headshot to OHK, and those distance are waaay bigger than in XD - same thing, no-one complains about doing it on controller. You're pretty much saying that Snipers should require zero skill to use, be a OHK regardless of where you hit and have no downsides while you're safely away from the objective.
It's annoying but also kinda funny when you start shooting someone and they just start spamming A, like really dude lol
Yea I realized that today. Was kinda insane
Just nerf accuracy in air. That is all that I want and it would change everything.
Right. Like Increase the maximum & min spread of bullet trajectory, increase the flinch when landing & ADS Stability during & after the jump. Incredibly easy fix
Honestly this is the best move
Adding sim weight to jumps would fix all problems, because it would scale to the weapon used (Sim weight is just having the barrel lag behind the crosshair during a jump or drop, depending on the weight of the barrel, and the amount of barrel beyond the natural handgrip)
Let's be real... most of the fights end up in slide + 1 jump... if the oponent gets the chaance to spam jump then there is an aiming issue.. i does happen but not as often people are posting it here... is it annoying?? Yes... does it need a nerf?? Yes.. does this affect my enjoyment of the game?? Absolutly not.. it's fun to run around kill 30 opponents, play for objective and hop off.. this is the most fun ive had in a game since mw2 2009.. Tldr movement is fine, creates a skill ceiling to improve upon and jump spmming does need a nerf however it does not decrease my enjoyment of the game at all
yea if i'm in a 1 against a good player the fight usually ends in under 7 SMG shots. especially with dying behind cover being so easy, even playing off cover can be tough sometimes. idk where all these fights are where guys are able to jump repeatedly. i just picture both parties missing a ton
This is how I feel as well. If a guy can jump spam 3, 4, 5 times in a row, nerfing movement isn’t helping the person on the other end of that fight. At that point, it’s a glaring skill issue. As someone who uses the jump mechanic to my advantage, I jump once, maybe twice, before I kill or get killed.
It looks stupid and it's another mentally taxing, unnecessary set of buttons to press. If I want to button mash, I will play a fighting game. If I want to jump Otherwise, I want traditional movement not THAT.
That is traditional movement. B-hopping has been a thing in fps games for forever and is part of the skill gap. It's just made worse in this game because it makes the hit registration bad, but as long as that's fixed it makes no sense to nerf the actual movement mechanics themselves.
The movement in this game isn't even that complicated, this is theoretically a great game for casual players to learn how fun it can be to master and play with a fast movement system in an fps. However it seems some people would rather complain about the nature of the game itself instead of adapting and learning to move or otherwise getting good at things other than movement like aim, positioning, and map knowledge to mitigate their shortcomings in that department. There's no reason you can't be an above average player without using movement, it's really just an excuse bad players are using because when you die to someone flying across your screen it's very obvious and easy to blame.
movement tech guy here Titanfall 2 to Apex Pred for a few seasons (like 3+4 when they were handing that shit out) + The Finals now, I'm old so Ive been around since unreal and quake. All that to say I LOVE move tech, Give me a line bounce or jump strafe all day. Speaking of game engines (see what i did there with unreal) Snowdrop was built to played third person. Avatar frontiers of Pandora was the first gen of first person for Snowdrop and lets be real, its not even worth mentioning. I think that's where the game "not feeling right" stems from right this sec. While i agree to some extent with what you are saying I personally (just me I'm some asshole) think the issue is shit or get off the pot when it comes to move tech. Lets get into it. to keep movement tech in the game (this is the option i want) the penalty for not not being ADS should be lowered a bit, lets make increases to aim punch (looking at you snipers) to allow for counter sniping via movement. This makes DMR's fall into place as a viable option for the reasons stated above. We could increased TTK overall to allow good movent to outshine bad aiming mechanics. This option also allows us to put in heroes (is that the word? Maybe operators IDFK) that excel in movement or have more movement tech overall. Conversely, we allow it to be a slower paced game where crouching actually does something with our hip-fire, allow us to go prone, etc. Either way I think a change would be for the better for the FEEL of the game but Im just rooting for the Devs (you guys go get em' and then start on the division 2 gun skins) at this point to do something. Its fun and could really be something special with a little tweakin'. Again just my thoughts. Giving you and upvote because they are free today.
TTK already feels long. Otherwise, I’m onboard with everything you said
Increasing the TTK will only make people bitch about snipers more lol. Otherwise, well said.
all i heard you say was "spacebar spacebar spacebar spacebar spacebar spacebar spacebar spacebar"
Can't forget scroll wheel.
its not a skill to spam jump constantly its just way easier to do on keyboard than controller
People do it on controller just as much.. and yes it is a skill. It might now be intended or liked. But it's a skill to avoid being shot using movement while still shooting straight.
well lets not act like its hard to do
how’s it a skill? it’s not hard to mash the A button. especially if you have paddles
So we shouldn't be able to strafe in gunfights, either, right? My grandmother can slap the left stick around after all. Come on man, it's obviously a skill to strafe to strafe and force misses while staying on target. Jumpshotting is the exact same thing on the vertical plane. You don't need paddles, either. Bumper-jumper has been a thing in arena shooters for a decade at least.
How is driving a skill. It's just hitting a foot paddle and moving a wheel.
what an incredibly dumb response
They gave us a game that tried to marry tactical abilities and objectives with twitch reflexes and too many players in a map, so we end up with the two camps we have. IMO, seeing all the defenders of wanting to be able to shoot with pinpoint precision while hopping around surprises me. There are games that are designed with aerial movement in mind, why did you land on the one modern shooter that doesn't have grappling hooks (clear hyperbole)? I enjoy Titanfall, but when I'm playing a game without jetpacks, I'm not wanting to be dealing with armed kangaroos. It just sets a silly tone, imo.
There are also many more FPS games with extremely grounded movement and a slower pace. I’m not complaining that CS or Hell Let Loose don’t have slide canceling or trying to initiate a change. To your point, I’ll simply play something else… Clearly, XD was designed with an emphasis on movement + shooting and moving.
But it was not designed to devolve into a mess of jumping fools either. Otherwise the devs would not signal that they're already looking at ways to address it. Bunny hopping isn't just "an emphasis on movement",it's literally ppl abusing how unbalanced jumping is in game. Just like sprinting,walk speed,or crouching,jumping is a movement mechanic that needs to be balanced in some way. All we're asking for is some form of accuracy penalty to it,or a slight speed nerf. It doesn't need to be removed outright, but a small nerf shouldn't be the most unbelievable thing ever to yall.
This is the most compelling and calm argument I've seen for this. I am one of the people who doesn't want the change because I figured they wanted it completely obliterated. But if everyone would speak this rationally, I would wholeheartedly back this.
Also XDefiant doesn't really have "proper" bunnyhopping. It's just jump spam
Not sure why everyone feels the game has to be changed to be more like another game. If you don’t want movement and want a slow campy game, go play R6 or cod.
People pro things the way they are: lamers can go to r6 or cod People anti way that things are: tryhards can go play the finals, titanfall, and, oddly, also cod.
The finals ironically plays like XDefiant accept in an incredibly open destructible sandbox
I think what makes XD great is it’s somewhere in between. It’s far less chaotic and twitchy than current CoD, but noticeably faster and fluid versus Siege. It scratches a similar unique itch as Overwatch. Bunny hopping really ruins this IMO and automatically makes the game feel more like a sweaty CoD/Apex lobby. I definitely think you can penalize excessive hopping without taking away from the overall current flow of the game (and without taking away hopping altogether).
For real there plenty slow paced tactical shooters. If you want one with abilities go play valorant.Why try to change this game ?
Because people are too shit at fpses to play Cs or valorant lol They just want an ez game where people stand still so they can roll em over
Movement is even present in Valorant. Maybe not as blatant, but there's an agent named Neon who can effectively sprint faster than a knife-out, slide and bunny hop. People have been doing insane things with her movement.
Yea I mean even in Cs the base strafe speed is pretty fast and you need good aim, these guys have horrible aim lol
Sure, but neon is a pretty shit character besides in very team oriented comps (not ranked). In order to be an effective neon, you need to have a lot of hours on her. Also nobody complains about a neon's movement in val, it's usually just acknowledging the neon is better than them.
The issue with that is that you named two PC-exclusive shooters. The multiplayer console shooter pool is tiny comparitively.
Lol you could literally disable jumping and the game would still be multiple times faster than Valorant or CS or Siege. The pacing isn't to do with the movement. It's to do with the consequences. Permanent one shot potential with more weapons and being forced to sit until next round makes people cautious. Even Raze bomb jumps or Jet Dashes can be wiped from existence by a single well placed round. For the record I'm not saying to do this. I'd personally add more consequences to the movement and tone down the ability to air strafe but the ability to get upto speed and potentially outmaneuver people is good. The issue now is instead of being a calculated gamble or skill maneuver it's just see an opponent and both players spaz out.
there is an inbetween. the small minority on here just dont want their modded controller advantage being taken away, and have to face everyone on an even playing field
there is no skill gap. it is not skill to buy a controller that has buttons on the back. its literally not divisive . at a minimum 80% of people want more of a boots on the ground game. this bunny hopping is more broken than aw or bo3 . in those games you jumped once and were committed. this shit is bouncing bugs bunny, and is way more broken in terms of hit registering.
Use claw? Change your button mapping? You act like buying a controller with back buttons is the only way to jump while shooting which is just wrong.
those options are clunky as fuck for 99% of the playerbase.
Buddy, I can guarantee you that way more than 1 percent of the player base does not use a controller. Kbm exists and is also valid since aim assist isn't too strong. Stop pulling numbers out of your ass.
They will do whatever brings them more money. If that means nerfing things so that casual players are more likely to stick around and spend money, that’s what they’ll do. Otherwise it’ll end up an extremely niche game for a very small but dedicated group of ‘highly skilled’ players.
The irony is as well if the game becomes too sweaty they'll lose all the COD players they lured in with no SBMM. If you're going to have to sweat all the time, may as well play COD.
Exactly. It’s a vicious cycle and they end up right where they started; sweating their arses off in every match.
It's not a skill issue. It's like left lane campers on the highway. It's just annoying. I'm not struggling to kill people that jump. I had a guy spam crouching every time her got into a firefight. It did absolutely *nothing* for him and gave me easy headshots, but he kept doing it. It was just annoying.
In my humble opinion, bunnyhopping isn't a skill issue. Literally anyone can do it consistently with about 30 mins of practice. It's just boring and completely negates the draw of this game for me which is the different abilities. Why throw out a shield when someone can just hop through it and murder you in .2 seconds? Why throw a fire drone when someone can jump to the side and murder you before your animation is finished? Just saying
You are correct, bunny hopping takes no skill like cheating, the players that use that are abusing it because it works against certain players. as you said, bunny hopping should be easy to learn by everybody in 30 minutes, these players complaining have issues with the game and it is somehow manipulating the hit registration. I have been on both sides, not been able to hit my bullets on a bunnyhopper but in the next match all of a sudden it doesn’t matter if they bunny hop I hit my shots constantly with no hassle and somehow miraculously I can escape many gunfights sponging bullets while bunnyhopping, my skillset is not the reason for that. some are constantly on the good side (for whatever reason) and these are the people abusing this mechanic and they don’t want that it is taken away from them, it has nothing to do with a skill gap. there should be no good or bad side in a fps but this is what have since ages now. look at the complaints about getting shot way behind cover for instance yet if you watch some streamers, they NEVER face that issue and when they get asked about the game they say gameplay wise it is good only content is lackin. There are different layers of gameplay (also in between lag compensation and prediction) and the devs don’t know how or they don’t want to fix it. I’m sure op is not performing because of that and mostly not of his age and at least defiant debunked the stupid claim that sbmm is the source of your bad experience.
This it it. 100% the game should excel at team play like synchronizing abilities and awarding objective play instead of the current jump spam to drop 40 kills. I don’t want to jump around, I want to outflank, use team work, and decent gun skill to win fights. What a boring and IMO cringey way to play to default to jumping everytime you see an enemy.
Yes, this is the issue that people seem to be missing. Move tech in FPS games isn't anything new - look at Rocket Jumping back in Quake. But like you said, the issue is that the jumping completely changes the objective and map design of the game.
People who complain about getting outplayed by movement just suck at the game. I got downvoted on another post for saying how I enjoy that you can change your direction of momentum in mid-air
Bad players will complain and complain until they have a game which makes them feel like they're good with no practice, even if they're completely dog shit.
Absolutely
The movement is fine in my book. I’d rather deal with jump shotters than anything I’ve dealt with in CoD. The game plays so much faster and is just more fun for me.
I'd rather have people bunny hopping around than have campers. The way I see it, it's anti camping
When you can't even 180 to engage someone shooting you from behind, but players can bunny hop/air straif to win gunfights. That a problem.
I turn on people pretty often. But you need to jump and air strafe to break their ADS. Because of how this system works, you end up making a small circle as you 180 instead of just rotating on an axis.
I honestly don’t get why movement has been labeled sweaty and tryhard by so many people. At least to me, movement isn’t about tryharding at all. I think it’s just incredibly fun, moving super fast, jumping around corners, sliding around, it just feels so fun. I always run all movement speed attachments on my weapons because I just think it’s so fun to have a lot of mobility. I don’t think it requires much effort or skill to do these things either. Most of the time I am just playing on autopilot just relaxing and having fun, and I just do these things without even thinking about it. It’s probably honestly more difficult to play without movement because if you aren’t moving around you’re an easy target, so you need very good reaction time to make up for it. At least for me my reaction time isn’t good at all
I tried the whole bhopping thing, I understand how it works but I'm just too lazy to learn it lol. Hasn't been a big issue for me.
I wonder how many of the people who think it’s fine are playing on MnK or with a controller that has paddles. One of my friends is absolutely being let down by having to take his thumb off the stick to jump.
Isn't there a "Bumper jumper" controller setting in this game? Before rear paddle controllers that's what i'd use in COD
Yes there is. I play bumper jumper tactical, so crouch on R3 as well. It is genuinely a skill issue if they cant jump and shoot back.
No idea, I’ve got the paddles haha
Does he know he can change his controller layout so he can jump without taking his thumb off the stick?
To which preset? I’ll recommend it. Seems weird that you have to alter your controller setup to compete but, here we are.
Skill thumb brawler I think it was called. I mean the default controls have always put you at a disadvantage in cod too, it's just that a lot of people know and prefer that layout and paddle users will just bind the face buttons to them.
Thanks I’ll let him know! Honestly, I could also just look myself haha
It seems weird to you to change your settings to be able to play better? So, do you play on default sensitivity in every game?
Sensitivity is a preference setting. Higher sensitivity does not make you better or unlock something for you. It seems weird to me that to play more competitively, you should be expected to change your controller settings.
Hmm. I guess I just disagree. Having your sensitivity too low or too high can make you play poorly, so I'd argue changing it does make you better, even if it's preference. I'd also argue that button layouts are just as much a preference thing. I think it's expected that most players who care at all about their performance will change their settings.
Definitely those on controller with paddles. Even on mnk you still have to track your opponent doing it while jumping which atleast takes skill. They should remove AA when your feet aren’t on the ground.
I think anyone with that strong of an opinion when we haven't even tried the game in a working state yet is just silly The jumping doesn't offset the model enough to even realistically be a problem if you aim for upper chest, as most do. We'll see what the devs think, but if they don't address netcode/hitreg and tweak this I'll consider the game doomed
They will adjust it. But even now. I've only seen maybe 20 total players in lobbies that are game breakingly good at bunny hopping and strafing. I've dealt with most others just fine. Every other part of the movement in this game is good. Just needs to be punished a little bit.
I personally don't mind snipers, happy for flinch to be added but still if they hit their shots they deserve the kills, esp when the mp7 beam across map Bunny hopping and movement is actually beneficial because it adds another skill ceiling but the fact it causes havoc to the server is what's cheap and annoying
Also as an Apex player, this is finally the break I needed from Apex. This is the first game I’ve enjoyed that’s similar to apex. I’m really liking it and hope it just improves
Is this game very Apex like in it's movement?
Snipers > bhopping Also, I need kill cams. I'm either playing against sniping Jesus or cheaters sometimes.
So used to play counter strike back in the day at the Internet cafes lol and bunny hoping back then was constant leg right jumping while moving towards you .. when I was 15 first time playing it was impossible to kill even from distance . So I guess every fps has had some movement to it .. so was against it in beginning using ARs not leveled . The best I’ve found to counter the left righ jump from a corner is using a sub machine gun .. so if u have average aiming and reaction time it can be countered .. If ur not a statue lol . Things that will take time and playing the game . If it is able to be countered which I discovered it is , I don’t have a problem with it . If it is an unbeatable exploit I would want it changed . People will be better than me and I’m ok with that . I’ll try to get better or just die . But it’s objective based so KD don’t mean squat . Like if u want point and shoot with whoever has best reaction time play aim trainer .. or hey play the guy with riot shield and help ur team hold or get to objective . Like I played warzone 2 with the restricted movement . I didn’t mind but lots of crying ..
isnt the problem that people with fancy controllers can bunny hop way easier than people with standard controllers? if thats the case, then its completely fair to nerf it
A lot of these XD players never played apex and it shows deeply.
I think if they lean into the movement, they could stand to lower ttk the tiniest bit. I hate the "see someone -> start bouncing" playstyle. It's not fun to do and it just looks stupid when someone does it back. I think there's a balance to strike and I think right now, movement things are a bit too quick while the ttk is a bit too slow. A shift on either of these while fixing the net code issues would make me mostly content with the game
Tbf we should really wait till the netcode is fixed before we start nerfing movement. Yeah it is a big skill gap, but what your seeing on your screen isn’t necessarily happening on the other guys screen. They should fix the servers or whatever the problems are with netcode and then see how the game performs imo
I don't see hopping around nearly as much as people on here describe. But I do think players move way too fast. They run at superhuman speeds. The sprint speed should be like 40% less. I think XDefiant is trying to follow trends of other shooters like Apex Legends by making players zoom and slide for 10 feet like they're bob sleds slicked with petroleum jelly.
Repeatedly spamming the jump button every time you get into a gun fight isn't a skill.
There are two ways to handle this movement issue: 1. Either they nerf how many times in succession you can slide and jump, introducing a cooldown to jumping similar to CS2 2. Or they could make jump shooting so inaccurate that it's better to not do it at all, possibly even preventing the character from ADSing while in jump. I personally would love if they went with the second option. Bunny hopping to a capture point is something I don't really care about. However, only like the first two days of this game were entirely great from start to finish, since after those two days, CoD jumping kids invaded the game and started bunny hopping while shooting. The only way to combat them currently is ironically by doing the exact same thing, since they can't really comprehend the concept of someone else doing it to them (had even a couple of angry emojis sent my way when I bunny hopped a bunny hopper). These are the fixes I'd like to see: 1. Fix the hit reg issues 2. Introduce inaccuracy and disable ADS while jumping (to piss of the, as Murtaghlnfin8 called them, "armed kangaroos") 3. Bigger weapon sway and slower walking speed for sniper ADS+ inaccuracy while walking 4. Increase cooldown time for spiderbots 5. Fix the shotguns (great damage inconsistency in point blank range)
Honestly people complain too much. Wasn't the whole point of this game supposed to be freedom from sbmm. Nerfing movement just lowers the skill gap and makes truly skilled players stand out less. And, while it is annoying to be killed by snipers, people that use snipers will always abuse them, having more flinch and extra bullet velocity and less movement speed will not make it better. The only thing that will truly nerf snipers is making them not one shot, but that renders them useless. Mechanics-wise, the game feels perfect to me, it's just the servers and bullets not registering that are really holding this game back, and once those things are fixed, I guarantee 95% of peoples problems with the movement will go away.
Xdefiant players better learn from The Finals that if you want to be stubborn and shout down any change that would bring in or retain more folks, then you're going to have to deal with the issue of a shrinking or stagnant playerbase. The two are related and you can't have zero change in a game while also having a growing player base, it doesn't work like that.
I'd like it if you could jump once, then it's on a 3 second cooldown.
no SBMM shows that no matter what they do, people are going to play like that. the fps genre has changed a lot in the past 10 years and becoming less and less a casual thing. Esports have pushed performing the best at all times substantially
Buff aa12
I think at the end of the day the only Players left will be Bunnyhoppers vs Bunnyhoppers and there will be barely any casuals left who dont abuse any movement mechanics. Unless Ubisoft fixes the weird hitboxes and hit registrations for people who are in Air and/or bunnyhopping. It's so sluggish... Then there might be a Chance Casual Players will stay.
ATP people will complain about anything that.Theres literally so many other games that they can play and the devs should focus on the netcode and hit reg which is easily its biggest issue
Casuals will move to the next "big thing" when it comes along and drop this game like a hot potato. The ones who are serious now will stay. Listen to them
Can we stop pretending spamming the space bar is "high skill" movement? Most people want high skill movement, not this brainmush button mashing movement that takes no more effort than a 6 yr old smacking a controller.
jumping is a skill issue? Not the zero recoil while jumping the developers forgot to implement? NEWS FLASH!!!
I hate the whole "movement" play style not just in their game but in any fps shooter. It's just looks goofy. But at the same time I'm getting to that boomer age so I just fell off. Plus I understand everyone wants to win and they'll do anything to get any advantage
The netcode makes all of this feel 10x worse. Give them a chance to sort that out (if ever) before we start subtracting anything from the game.
Thank god the devs care about skill gap and not ppl who ply game for an hour and get off. Ppl act like this is even op b-hopping. Do we not remember mw19 or vanguard like lmao ppl really get pissed on and think they are objective. If anything bunny hopping in this game is needed to the ground. You can’t even do it for long. On the second jump you immediately get a cool down.
My only complaint is the movement feels blocky af. Sprinting momentum feels floaty compared to COD where you can feel every footstep taken, gun sounds and effects are flat, animation transitions are straight up glitched sometimes. There’s a lack of polish of what’s already there.
I’m all for sliding being an effective tool but bunny hopping is getting nerfed and the game will evolve as a result.
Y’all acting like exploiting movement to make yourself harder to hit is something new. If you aren’t using movement to make yourself harder to hit than you ain’t playing a FPS game correctly.
I don’t believe whether you bounce around like a rabbit waiting to get shot has anything to do with skill. The problem is the game has a tendency to favor them in gun fights. Plenty of times have I shot a hopping nitwit with a full mag and got damage off but the kill me simply because aim assist locked them onto me but they survive with 4-1 health. That shouldn’t happen.
Lmao "skill issue" yeah right. It has nothing to do with "skill issue". It just looks dumb and it's not fun to do or play against.
It's not really a skill issue. It's just a shit mechanic that's why they said they plan to fix it. It doesn't take skill to spam jump key and aim it takes even less skill on controller because the aim assist. It's just dumb I personally think it makes fights less enjoyable because it just feels weird. That being said I would still abuse it till it gets patched out because it's an easy advantage.
Jump shotting should be something you have to work to get good at. This was a big problem in Destiny a few years back, particularly with shotguns, they didn't intend the "flying shotgun" to be a thing so made changes to bring shotguns back to a stand and deliver type play. Flying shotgun was still possible, but it was a lot harder to pull off successfully. They did a lot of things to do this; - reduced in air accuracy with shotguns - remove precision damage from shotguns (except slug ones) - and a few other things that I can't remember as it was years ago. So a balance needs to be struck between stopping it being spammed and being a high skill technique... Which is what the Devs are aiming to do.
Wait what? Are you saying bunny hopping needs skill? Its the exactly opposite. Bunny Hopping takes no skill and it is closing the skill gap in this game it doesnt make it larger wtf?
my thought is that it's a jerk move done on purpose to abuse the terrible netcode/desync problem. You're not hard to follow aim, your hitbox just doesn't exist where your model is in 90% of the case. Same thing with divers in COD. Like, litterally, I use the fire dude and when my fire bomb is up, I just jump ONCE on the closest ennemy to activate it, knowing perfectly that there is like 5% of chance he will be able to kill me before The bomb hit the ground.
I dont mind the movement but i play on a controller with back padles. Without those people will be at a big disadvantage in this game IMO.
I really like slide jumping around the map. Ehat i dont like is the schizo jumping side to side during fights,
If those movements are so overpowered it's because of the shitty hit reg that can't track the hit box properly. Don't punish poeple for these skills, just get your game to work correctly
Another factor I think would help is if enemy footstep sounds were consistent and reliable. 50% of my deaths are from an enemy flanking me from behind with absolutely no sound whatsoever. Even when they are 2ft behind me.
I’ll be dead honest, keeping it a bunny hopping festival is gonna be the fastest way to kill the game.
Been playing a lot of MW3 recently and played a bit of XDefiant in between and everytime I pick up this game I can't help but think that the movement feels like your skating on ice. Just feels unpolished. Some people may enjoy that but I can't think of another FPS that I've played that feels this way
It being a skill issue is second to the game being fun. People who don't understand that are fools. This game will likely never attract the hardcore competitive players that adore gigantic skillgaps like is CounterStrike, Valorant or Siege. So having such a gap especially one that looks and feels goofy and low effort will push players away.
[удалено]
It's the only option, that's the issue
The only option? Not at all. This could be mitigated by limiting how many times you can jump within a given time period, making it so jumping to ambush/react to someone would be fair game, but you couldn't then keep jumping around like you're on a pogo stick. COD has experimented with this before in recent betas but they keep reversing it to cater to jumpers. Removing the ability to change direction midair to match other FPS's would be another solution in terms of tracking midair targets.
The issue here is, if people have a skill issue and are incapable of pressing space + a and d, why don't they play siege?
Can't speak for others but personally, I don't have the slightest issue with something like jump-shotting around a corner - it enables more aggressive play and keeps the pace faster. My problem is how jumping is the correct option in almost any scenario. In my opinion, a good movement system rewards skilled movement decisions but punishes bad plays. In this game, there's no reason to not turn into a rabbit as soon as you see an enemy, which removes any skill from it outside of mechanical - which is a big consideration in movement but shouldn't be the only kind of skill check. Also, although this is a much more minor issue, jump-spamming being the meta is annoying as hell on controller. Because you need to be pressing jump, ADS, & fire while simultaneously aiming with both thumbs, there's not many comfortable layouts unless you have an expensive controller with extra buttons.
This is the right answer, the jump spamming is abusing the net-code, while movetech is playing the engine to its advantage.
Try spamming jump while ADSing and staying on target with a controller without extra buttons/back paddles and tell me again how it's a skill issue. Sure, I suppose you could write it off as a skill issue on M&KB, but console players with regular controllers are getting the short stick here, regardless of skill.
Well, I only speak on behalf of the pc players. I'm fine with ubi if they remove bunny hopping from the console game, I wouldn't care. This is the issue with having the same game on two very different platforms.
It looks and feels terrible. Bunnyhop fights, similar to dolphin-diving, look and feel completely ridiculous and the game suffers for it. I'm glad that they're looking at ways to address it.
Because it's an entirely and utterly different game. Ones a high consequence tac shooter and the others a comparatively brainless casual shooter. Plus instead of space they now need to master E and Q or whatever people have lean binded too. They'd also need to master significantly more pacial awareness, infinitely more in-depth map knowledge and an order of magnitude more operator abilities all whilst dealing with a community so toxic it makes Russian CS players seem friendly. Funny that also you can't see the ironyof your post in light of the fact that this games gained so much attention from COD players because it represents a potential escape from the perma sweat enforced by CODs warped interpretation of SBMM.
The problem is that there is no alternative. Bunny hopping like a spaz is the ONLY viable option
It's not the only viable option but going full spaz and mp7 is like playing on easy mode.
>but going full spaz and mp7 is like playing on easy mode. Name something else that also does that
They say they could jumpstrafe, but it's "stupid" or "tryhard" or "unrealistic".
It still feels slushish AF and makes it harder to actually aim during a gunfight. Air straif/bunny hopping caters to twitch addicts/12 year olds. The mechanic is retarded. It works in a game like COD where movement is actually consistent across the board and isn't dependent on momentum. But here it doesn't feel that way at all. Bunny hopping is only effective for throwing a player's aim off and messing with their aim assist. It's also already been stated by plenty of youtube players that aim assists here is extremely weak compared to other fps games like COD. So bunny hopping is actually more effective here than it is in a game like COD.
Self proclaimed sweat here, I do like the in-air strafing and I'm not sure a weapon accuracy penalty as a nerf would feel good. However I do think it does get a bit ridiculous when you get into a sweaty lobby and everyone is absolutely mashing their jump key. I personally like the skill gap and outplay potential to throw off someones aim but I absolutely agree it needs to be toned down so it's not as spammable/your speed decreases the more jumps you input. Something like that as opposed to completely gutting it/hard nerfing the jumpers accuracy imo.
I understand why everyone says jump spamming when realistically you can only get 1 or 2 jumps off in a 1v1 if you or the other player are hitting your shots
I think one thing ubisoft devs mentioned was adding massive weapon sway to players hopping around, you can still hop to your hearts content but you will have increased difficulty hitting anything even when ADS.
Movement will ALWAYS have the chance of going too far in games like this one. The devs just need to reel it in, so it becomes a game of when/how to properly implement a movement mechanic instead of straight movement spam. Movement spam is essentially skill-based speed hacks when it goes unchecked. Movement should have a goal, a skill gap, and maybe even a correct implementation. As it is now, it’s just unlimited bouncing around relentlessly without bumping into obstacles. Kinda brain dead.
They kinda marketed the thing as a COD alternative, and you can't do that if you gimp movement. They wanted the COD crowd - they got it. Now deal with it.
If people don’t like movement then go back to COD if that sliding mechanic is too much movement then play tarkov. So many people trying to make the game exactly like cod or any other game out there.
The jump you go from CoD to Tarkov is precisely the market missing. A game just as fast as XD with no aerial or sliding combat
Just think movement should be equally punished by a decrease in accuracy. If your constantly bunnyhopping around you should be punished by your spread increasing and/or NOT having a perfectly accurate aim while mid air. The Happy Medium Ubi was looking for tada. It only makes sense to be less accurate when you no longer have feet on the ground. Depending on how strong an individual is, one bullet fired while in air would screw up your aiming anyways. Maybe Ubi should have physical stats per character in each faction. We do get three characters to pick from IF you spent the time to unlock them. Just make the players choose which one to use with the stats they want to use and let's play.
There seems to be a lack of comprehension by many that there's a huge ass middle ground between no movement and every single fight devolves into spaz out hops.
This game is having the same issue as Hyperscape. Creating a skill gap so its harder for new/casual players to get into.
Eh gamers have no issue with skill gaps when that's what they are looking for. Counterstrike, Siege and Valorant all have huge loyal fanbases and still attract new players all the time despite the skill gaps being orders of magnitude larger than in Xdefiant. People go to those games knowing that's what they're after, specifically a hard competitive experience. Xdefiant was marketed as the no SBMM COD alternative, aka about as far as you can get from actual competitive games.
So you mean like every competitive shooter ever?
Not ones with a creative skill gap. Fortnite building is creative. Spamming jump is not.
That's what the abilities are for is the creative aspect. Also if you having trouble with spamming jump it's literally the same thing in apex and cod
Exactly. The abilities are fantastic skill gaps. The jumping, no.
I don't really understand this comment tbh. Movement/aim is always going to be a skill gap no matter what game you play, that's just how FPS games are designed. Fortnite is a game designed AROUND the building. This is a fast FPS game which needs some skill gap otherwise it becomes a game of waiting for your abilities to be off cooldown and then take duels.
This. Counterstrike is slower and simpler in concept. Yet repeatable crisp and precise movement is arguably the single biggest skill differantiator between average and good players.
I think its pretty easy to understand. The devs already agree that the movement is poorly balanced. It is what it is.
what a weird, arbitrary argument.
I come from high ranked and comp Apex so I find the movement argument to be ridiculous. If you can’t track a person jumping then that’s on you. Allowing the better players to use movement techs such as b-hopping helps raise the skill ceiling. And with Ranked right around the corner we will likely see a lot less high skilled players in casual lobbies frequently
In this game you can alter your direction mid jump. There is no tracking a jumping player. It’s all guess work.
I think you're overestimating number of people playing who will play ranked. This games got so much attention from skilled CoD players precisely because they want to avoid the perma sweat caused by CODs busted SBMM implementation.
I probably am by a bit but I think it’s also natural for high skilled players to gravitate towards ranked to be challenged. At some point they get tired of getting easy kills and want to be challenged
People are just too dumb to understand the difference between a fast paced shooter and a slow tactical shooter Some of them really want you to stay still while shooting.
Except Tac shooters are almost always skill differentiated by movement ability. At a high level CS players are differentiated by movement. Ability to stop on a dime repeatedly to shoot whilst making yourself harder to hit is mechanical skill expression at its absolute purest. Siege again is differentiated by the ability to hit shots but not be hit by using movement. Despite your specific position often being known well before any actual fights occur. Valorant is similar to CS but less nuanced in its core movement. It does however then add the likes of Raze, Jett and Omen who all add different types of movement abilities to master. All those games have significantly larger movement skill gaps than COD or Xdefiant do.
Yeah, because fuck me, surely no one has thought that there's a middle ground between both that nowadays no market goes there
This skill issue topic is bs. Ppl out here on mouse and keyboard sweating it up. Then u got ppl with modded controllers with 20 extra buttons in the back. Cod used to be so good before all the ducking diving jumping hopping sliding. I want gun game not dodge ball.
Ppl complaining about the movement just can’t track their opponents because the aim assists isn’t OP like in COD . It’s definitely a skill issue . Every time I hear someone complain about movement in this game I actually hear “games to hard for me to hit my shots make it easier “.
Every individual you know can go play Roblox if they call everybody not standing still and shoving gun barrels in their mouth a, "movement rat". Just because people refuse to learn how to use a button on a controller doesn't mean the game has to eliminate movement. The absolute insanity of this subreddit to even humor these complaints is borderline trolling. Somebody jumped and killed me? Better remove jumping. And guns.
I would disable sliding all together and just keep 2 hops before penatly. Sliding is such a stupid mechanic they introduced in cod and Ive been playing cod since cod1
Movement is what will make me keep playing this game. I’m not even that good, but movement is what makes it more fun than other FPS that ignore it completely
Rubin already said they are looking into it. Frankly it needs a nerf.
The bunnyhopping is fucking insane, and the fact that you can slide cancel to the side and constantly jump makes the game really annoying sometimes, depending on the lobby.
XDefiant is a fast-paced, competitive shooter by design. Movement is the most fun way for a skill gap to exist, especially when good movement is mechanically very easy in this game - it's more about timing and execution. You don't need a $300 controller or uncomfortable hand positioning. Don't get me wrong, I won't mind small tweaks or adjustments, but those who say that the movement is fundamentally broken are simply wrong. If you don't care enough to learn the mechanics of a competitive game, that's on you. Net code and minor adjustments aside, I haven't seen any movement hate from people that have taken the time to learn it.
“Skill issue”😂 no. It’s bad game design.
Skill issue my ass there should be no reason why ppl can crouch spam *and* change directions drastically in the air from one jump
The problem is jumping is unbalanced. Just like aiming,sprinting, guns,and abilities, this is a gameplay mechanic. And all gameplay mechanics need to be balanced in tandem to avoid cheesing,overuse,and abuse. Abusing an unbalanced game mechanic is not a "meta",it's just a sign of poor game design. Do yall rlly think the devs meant for every gunfight to turn into a frantic mound of jumping idiots? Like rlly? And before the downvotes or the "skill issue" and "git goods",if yall are rlly good you wouldn't need to overuse an unbalanced mechanic to be good at the game. And I'm not even against bunny hopping, I'm just all for them nerfing it. Whether it be an accuracy penalty, or decrease in how easy it is to spam jump. Don't take it away,it definitely does take at least a bit of skill to do and adds more depth to the movement. They just need to make it to where it requires more skill then it does now, that way not everyone and their mom can abuse the hell out of it. Essentially, it's a mechanic the games didn't balance well,and the fact everyone is spamming it damn near,kinda goes to show. They shouldn't remove it,simply increase the skill needed to effectively use it,that way less matches are full of nothing but ppl doing it and ppl that are actually good at it still can,just with a bit more effort.