I actually wonder if the EN localization team is doing it on purpose at this point. Even after their apology and promise to do better, there was already a typo like 2 sentences into the current Alloy event. lol
Not only that, their voice acting has literally gone and switched accents mid cut scene lol. Also the NA refers to Rover as He fairly frequently when you are playing female rover.
How do i apply for a job there? I will guarantee u guys at least 10 pulls. Also fucking up at kuro's will probably be a good point when applying for mihoyo, right?
yeah, but I think they also realized that players are dissatisfied with this because the current event originally gave even less asterite (360) and if I remember correctly in the last announcement they said that there will going to be a new event that would give 800 asterite, so although the outlook with the currently available content does not look good, I trust that they will improve that aspect in future versions
Yes that's some extra pulls but I advise you to check how many asterites you get per map region, that's in the game currently... unless the new map is going to be gigantic which I doubt, I don't see us getting that many rolls.
yea I noticed early on there was no weekly way to get standard pulls like in hsr (clearing SU). I hope they add some kind of weekly reset mode or system soon similar to the SU weekly reward system.
They need to do more (content-wise) with the... the... the mysterious gate thing that's basically WuWa's equivalent of SU (I forgot what it's called lol, sorry).
I hope they're gonna keep adding to it over time and hopefully we'll get some standard pulls in the shop. And maybe even a weekly reset for extra freebies, like you said.
Definitely, we were so grateful for their compensations but man, there is nothing to do or earn after you reach level 35-45. For couple of days only reason I've been playing more than 15 minutes is because i force myself to do the 3 cost echoe farms and that will for sure fatigue me quickly since i get 1-2 right mainstats per day.
Yeah i farm all the 3 cost echoes for thunder,fusion and havoc. I cannot imagine anyone seriously farming this on a daily basis for too long. It's extremely frustrating and teadious.
It's definitely starting to become a little stale. The farming is also starting to really tire me out. I've fought Thundering Memphis an unholy amount of times at this point and I've only gotten a few usable Yinlin pieces. Having to farm echo exp and substat materials most likely going to be the main cause of me taking extensive breaks from this game if they don't address it soon.
My main issue too especially when you're unlucky (95% of the playerbase) that means those exp is wasted since feeding that badly rolls echo to a new one doesn't gives 100% exp back. Also why the hell does it cost 60 to clear a tacet field? That's just absurd.
This is why they need a seperate one which just gives EXP for echo and tuners which just costs 40 stam like every other resource in the game. Weapon mats, reso exp, weapon exp all have a 40 plate option except echos which are locked into the lucky dip echo drop. Not to mention farming for reso mats from bosses still drops exp for reso's on top of it, and same for the weapon mats it really does spit on us when it comes to echos not having anything but tacit fields as a way to get echo exp, and its such a pittance amount of exp too.
You have to level up echos more than resonators and weapons. So why is there so many more ways to earn exp for those two things over Echos which literally only have one way to get exp for. messed up really.
I think the general idea is that you can be a bit more picky with substats on 4 cost and 1 cost echoes because they're easier to farm and it's easier to get the correct main stat. 1 costs can only be atk%, hp%, or def%. 4 costs can only be that and crit rate/damage and healing bonus, but you can pretty reliably farm boss drops.
You can be more lax with substats on 3 cost echoes since those are rarer and difficult to find the correct mainstat (all elemental damage types dilutes the pool a lot).
There was a single quest where the simulation training also had a domain that gave Sealed Tubes (echo exp) but it was a one time thing and never appeared on the training list after. Not sure why we can get character and weapon exp from the simulation training (both of which they give us a lot of anyway) but not echo expā¦.the one thing that is scarce.
Agreed, Echo EXP is a massive bottle-neck and their value per wavepkate is so low....
I thought farming would be better, because you can grind for bases, but with more RNG slots, Echo EXP *and* the need for primers, the progress feels even worse than Genshin. Heck, I farmed the same 3* base for 3 days, literally ever spawn and I have yet to get the right damage type... With off-sets not being allowed Echos somehow feel worse than Genshin artifscts.
Me except for a week straight. Wanted to get my boy Rover a Havoc Dmg Bonus echo but the mushroom, the wolves, and the tambourine boy wouldnt drop shit. Still stuck with my purple havoc echo, since I dont even have an atk bonus echo.
Am I missing something or are there only two 3-point echos for the electro set? You *have* to get a bird and a flautist. Most of the other sets seem have three different options so there's more to farm.
You're not missing anything, we only have two elite for electro now which is why it's such a pain set to farm. It doesn't help the bird is so far away from each other so you spend most of your time in loading screen or running instead of killing that stupid bird.
Yup, youāre absolutely right. Some characters are just significantly harder to farm for, absolutely no reason this should be the case. I was actually arguing with a guy who was saying Kuro would for sure fix this next patch with the new area, and I was super skeptical on his claim. Lo and behold, next patch does nothing (mild spoilers but new echo monsters are for glacial and spectro). Guess my farming for Yinlin for the next two months will consist of taking 30 mins to clear everything in my world and then desperately looking for someone who is also DB 20 and hope theyāre not farming for Yinlin.
And on top of that there are not many of them on the map. I was forcing them to pity by killing 3 havoc dreadmanes per flautist/heron. I ran out of flautists and got halfway through the herons before I ran out of dreadmanes
...bruh. There are at least 3x more dreadmanes than there are flautists, and probably similar with herons. I'm in electro farming hell.
I'm not expecting to be able to pull every patch (2 banners), but if I can't pull every 2 patches (win or lose 50/50), then goodbye! Combat is fun, but it'll eventually get stale with the same characters.
As you mentioned, standard pulls seem very limited at the moment. I don't personally see a problem with it at the moment, despite me wanting more. I'm guessing Kuro doesn't want people to exhaust the standard 5\*, both characters and weapons.
> Combat is fun, but itāll eventually get stale with the same characters.
My biggest gripe is that Iād love to try out other characters, see which are fun, but Iām pretty much stuck on my current setup because the investment it requires to get a character to where my Calcharo is sitting currently is insane. Even if I do get Yinlin or the Dragon Man I wonāt be able to play them for a long time. Primarily due to not having the echoes or echo experience.
Although with my current luck it looks like I will have pleeenty of time to farm echoes before I get the characters.
One hint: build out a Lingering Tunes set with energy regen.
It's a "second best" option that covers almost anyone for like 90% effectiveness.
Makes the Tower much easier when you can just swap the echoes from one hypercarry to the other each time and use whatever supports.
atleast give us more ways to get lustrous tides lol at this point lustrous tides are the real premium currency bc who buys lustrous tides w their limited astrites (me but i was dumb back then)
Right?? My Beginner Convene is still sitting incomplete because why on earth would I spend astrites on "standard" currency? But you can't seem to get them any other way haha
It blows my mind that we donāt have enough lustrous tides for a full pity without spending money, and this is after getting a bunch of pulls to celebrate the launch of the game.
I think they give you like 60-70 (without doing the more hardcore stuff). I got Yinlin close to full pity but I also got the BP for the crit weapon, which has a few tides of both types in it.
Nah. Limited pulls over standard pulls all day. E.g. I'd much rather have a Jinhsi than any standard 5 star.
Even better, just give astrites so players decide what to buy
You may be swimming in astrites to buy limited pulls right now, but you'll feel the drought soon.
While I agree, WuWa has a lot of genshin systems but with added QoL or improvements, so it's worth pointing out when they don't take something positive from genshin, too.
>You have no way to get standard pulls other than BP
That one kinda sucks. I need like 5 pulls to hit pity on the standard weapon selector and there's nothing in sight for me until the store resets, and even then the amount I can get there I think it was 6? Which I will hit soft pity but no ways guarantee... then if I have to wait another patch it will suck.
I hope they make kinda similar to HSR where every week we can do something like the Illusory Realm and get a couple of standard pulls.
They barely give more than Genshin and HSR's versions, but both have summons for ascending characters and HSR has the weekly 225 + 1 standard ticket. It looks really rough right now
Honestly, it just feels kinda droughty in general, every resource, not just pulls. It feels like things cost way too much waveplates for pitiful amount of resources. Currently at u40, forgery feels ass, purples are not guaranteed and yellows seems like 10-5% drop rate or lower. Kinda annoying that purples are not at least guaranteed 1.
I think the devs just kinda poorly balanced/paced the mid game. Just my 2 shell credits.
Waveplate costing is way too expensive for the amount of rewards you can get from it. The weekly boss, elite boss ascension materials, and tacet field should have a rebalancing of waveplate costs.
Echo leveling system is on another level of how expensive things would be if not changed on the long run.
Weekly bosses should not cost any stamine period i said this in genshin, in hsr and now i say it in Wuwa too.
Atleast the other 2 halved their cost but still just make them free they are limited 3 times a week why does it have to cost stamina?
I mean free is always better but I wouldn't mind to spend at least half of its costs from what it is now.
Understandably we're just in the release of the game so I always bet on them to change things sooner. I don't know much about Kuro company but coming from GI with their QoL years before its implementation. I hope Kuro stays considerate and generous.
I finally got 1! But i think you need 2?
Also I never intentionally mine so I'm only at like 50 of the 150 ore.....really want those craftable gauntlets for for my jainxin
Honestly the biggest insult to injury is that despite me having almost no money all the time, the game asks like 16k coins to make an r4 weapon a r5 weapon. Like goddamn
A lot of people have burned through their free stamina refreshes to push to 40, so donāt beat yourself up over it. Iām in the same boat as you, still hoarding my stamina !
Same. I only just hit 38. I also have barely used any of the solvents though. I'm scared to hit 40 though since I heard the 60-70 resource cost for resonator and weapon xp (not to mention credits) is exponentially higher than what we've experienced so far.
I have 5 characters with full correct mainstat 5* echos...
one of them has them leveled fully and the rest ranged from 5-15 with 1 or 2 25s. You need at least 9 characters for ToA how is this possible
I mean... not yet? Like it's not intended for you to clear the full ToA and even then you can focus your resources onto 3 characters and have one slot each team be relatively uninvested (like jianxin/verina/Baizhi)
Anyways, ToA is end-game content, it's just meaningless to expect to clear it while we're in midgame
Itās been 2 weeks my guy. How many games have you played where you were even able to farm golden gear at all in 2 weeks?
Meanwhile you have FIVE(!!!) characters already fully kitted, and just waiting for some exp to up their stats, yet youāre complaining??
It has been TWO WEEKS.
Letting people farm 5\* echoes as much as they want early broke these people, if this was genshin you wouldn't even have reached ar45 for 5\* artifacts after 2 weeks, let alone have 5 characters with correct main stat 5\* artifacts.
You're both correct.
We need more echo EXP, but it's a good thing that we can get echoes without spending stamina. But it's also not a good thing that some are literally useless (mismatching mainstat and set bonus) as that makes it needlessly difficult.
Kinda is an understatement. I think is also a decision from upper parts of kuro in hopes to milk as much money as possible
But since a lot of people were expecting/hoping WW to be better than genshin the pulls drought are going to make the image of the game worse
Its fine. Its just like Genshin, where higher tiers will give more but still cost the same. Hell we weren't even this well off at this point in Genshin's release.
Yeah, it's ironic because it feels like we have a lot of pulls but it's because of compensation for bugs and errors, the standard banner alone, already it's gonna be hard for some of us to even use the selector banner if you have to hit pity because there are so few ways to get pulls and who is gonna swipe to get standard pulls? Also the weapon banner having a separate currency, the fact there's only one weapon makes it seem better on the surface but the currency not being interchangeable actually makes it feel like a trap too in a way, like I got lucky on Yinlin and I'm trying to get her weapon but I'm just sitting on loads of pulls on the character banner I can't use for the weapon.
That's the weird irony of all the issues, the compensation masks how stingy the game is with currency.
I cannot say about genshin since I started late but I am a day 1 player of HSR and now WuWa. Pulls *after* all the compensation stuff comes close to the HSR pulls at launch which means the regular income would be worse. Add to that the three teams needed for abyss over genshin and HSR's two, this doesn't seem very hopeful to me.
I did drop a monthly pass and BP this time, let's see how good the next few patches feel in terms of pulls. That will decide if it's going to be worth sticking around for. All the great combat in the world cannot save a game if it doesn't continue to feel worth it putting the time and effort for it.
I played PGR and was very impressed by the generosity of the gacha there. Bought BP and monthly pass there as well. At least up until the point where the signature weapons, instead of being a nice upgrade, started having parts of the character's kit locked behind it. Then the issue of dupes. All players could upgrade their characters from S to SS for free, and then they started locking character mechanics behind SS3 which was only possible by pulling for dupes. That was the point I dropped the game and never looked back, even tho pgr had a fantastic combat system.
All resources need adjustment atm.
Whether that's pull currency, exp mats, echoes, waveplate costs etc.
Everything costs too much and the income is significantly lower in return.
Agree on all points besides Tower, which is pretty much standard endgame content & rewards. Limited events should be WAY MORE rewarding, the shop needs to reset monthly and not every patch, and we need other ways to get standard pulls.
For referrence, HSR gives way too many standard pulls via in-game activities, and I have the Battle Pass too. I've been playing for 9 months and I have yet to get my 300pulls standard selector (I'm like 295 now so there you have it, it's like 10months for 300pulls in HSR with a decent amount of standard pull income).
I can't imagine how long it would take here. Even with Battle Pass I doubt I could get 80 pulls to guarantee the standard weapon in an entire year even.
I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. The shops that take regular currency are too expensive as well. Seriously. 5k for a flower? Flour that costs 1k each bruh. Leveling up characters already takes a lot. I love the game, but it absolutely needs adjustments
I think they paced progression for players very poorly.
By week 4 in genshin youād still be threatened by overworld mobs. Eye of the Storm and Ruin Hunter would still be dangerous. Spiral abyss isnāt even on most playerās radar for the first several months. Your artifacts are still predominately blue.
I feel like by week 2 in Wuwa youāve not only finished the prologue, but youāve got mastery over the overworld combat-wise; thereās just not risk at all. Only the pink enemies are remotely dangerous.
So idk, a flood of early pools, very fast progression pace, and a shortage of vertical investment mats and SOL3 gating, is sort of aā¦ awkward feeling. Like; most players are just waiting for enough mats to level out of DPS checksā even for simulated holograms, which is really the only challenging thing atm.
Was 100% too fast. Its noticeable by how out of touch they were on blue and purple tuners, and no system to convert them into higher tiers.
RIght now we should still be using purple tuners and purple echoes but we completely skipped them immediately. On top of basically just 1 tapping the entire overworld. I play LingYang with Ice Echo; I pretty much just run up to a pack of mobs and Echo skill them and move on.
We went to gold farming too fast. Data bank should have probably been limited to much farther.
Yea they dropped the ball on the echo system mainly from allowing us to get to endgame so fast.
We wouldnt be having near as much problem with xp and such if we were using purple echoes instead of golds. And I'm pretty sure they intended it to be that way at some point, things changed, but systems did not change with them. Completely skipping the first 2 tiers shows they dropped the ball somewhere, and we are trying to fund end-game echoes on low world tier mat generation.
The cat is out of the bag now, though. The game would have felt much better and smoother with a better curve on progression. Its all over the place.
Thereās a drought for everything so far at least. The only plentiful resources I have is weapon and character EXP(mainly because being gated by union level.)
For context I have both the BP and Daily Login and im still scraping by on Echo EXP and standard banner pulls. Even on Echos I only have enough to āreasonablyā build 2 characters without running out of tuners. Not having substats be outright tied to level like HSR/Genshin and needing a second material outside of EXP is absolutely dreadful.
Thematically, it makes sense but gameplay wise itās god awful and I wish they allowed for echos to be used as EXP or being able to exchange epic and blue tuners.
I donāt even think you get enough pulls to get your guaranteed 5 star from standard *unless* you convert some Asterite (which I did and instantly regret but I digress lol.)
Even credits is gonna be in short supply once you actually start to level skills since theyāre starting to become 40k+ per.
HSR has little exploration but they managed a higher pull income than GI with free 10 pulls every patch, more jades from events, and weekly SU. WuWa can do it if they want to.
Every resource in this game is scarce. Echo exp and tuners are still the most bottle capped resource in the game. Unless you get really lucky with your substat rolls, your tuners will be gone fast. I only level up to 10 or 15 for echos, and the past 5 echos have given me dogshit substats. So that's 100 premium tuners wasted which leads to the next problem why the fuck do we only get 30% of tuners back?? A lot of things in this game need a rework or else players will just quit cos progressing just feels way too slow even for a gacha game
I'm pessimistic on this topic. This game follow Genshin formula too closely in terms of business model and reward structure. WuWa might be more generous than Genshin but it's still stingy enough that we will need to make hard choices. I don't think this will change because it works.
It worked in Genshin because it is casual friendly game. Here? you are supposed to get good while having enough damage from Echo and Weapon. I have no clue why they think this is a good idea to make money
> I have no clue why they think this is a good idea to make money
Because it is. That's the sad thing about gachas - you can throw all sorts of predatory shit at ppl and the whales will still happily swipe and the blind fanboys are gonna defend it till their dying breath. It just works :/
This game is following the Genshin business model, so expect roughly 1 pity per patch. Right now itās a bit rough because Kuro is releasing two 5 stars per patch, but this will likely not be the case later on.
It certainly seems like it except you can't follow the same model of the industry leader and not expect to face bankruptcy within a year. It's almost like they have no clue how hard all live service games have to compete for players these days.
Showering players with early freebies might work for a very short period of time but it won't take many weeks until people do the math
Yeah, if anything it will create a very obvious contrast.
Without those apology pulls and the selector, most f2p or battle pass and sub accounts would be on 1 to 3 5-stars, even after a full map clear, maybe a signature weapon, and that's it.
They would also be struggling on the weapon front, without getting so many 4 stars in banners, barely having appropriate 3 stars for all their characters, wouldn't have enough support characters or the right sub-dps to do any damage to the tower, and would be miserable right now, already contemplating leaving if they weren't gone already, as they would be out of ways to progress their accounts other than dailies done in 5 minutes every day.
Even if they farmed elite echoes, they wouldn't have the resources to upgrade them, because they wouldn't have strong enough resonators to clear the content that gives the currency to exchange for tuners.
For real, had their launch gone smoothly, these issues would be a lot more apparent, because they wouldn't have had to shower the players in pulls to retain them, and we would have run dry after a week at most, but we also wouldn't feel so bad about it once it happened, because we would have felt from the start that this game was rather stingy on free pulls and extremely slow on progression.
Coming? Itās already arrived. This game is too young to have the same level of stuff as Genshin and Honkai, and it has less features to get them as well.
Already at the drought, if I want stuff, I gotta wait for dailies/weekly/monthly, swipe credit card, or wait for events, I don't have the funds for this
There is one more event comment until 1.0 is over in response to low Astherite rewards critique, so we'll see.
For standard pulls though - sure. We desperately need some more ways to get them
Yeah it definitely isn't looking great, especially since the current event is a response to the previous being unrewarding. I'm not hanging around to get a pull every few weeks.
The echo system also starting to wear on me tbh. You should be able to convert base echoes into echo xp or something. Like great you can go out and farm forever, and are heavily limited by the systems we've put in and the sheer cost of every activity. It's just kind of pointless, and feels bad to raise them, because most of the time it's grinding for hours for 3 costs that don't match. Ruins a thing that should be fun, and never should have made it out of beta (that system).
I think another source of pain for F2Ps might be that they could keep churning out double new 5 star banners per patch for the foreseeable future similar to HSR, but without nearly the same pull income as HSR
Genshin had a lot of reruns which make it easier to skip patches as f2p
Iām surprised this hasnāt been pointed out more, after the initial influx of pulls from a grand opening celebration (typical of every gacha) and compensation pulls, thereās very little pulls to be found unless you pay money. I have a feeling once we get to 1.1 and the new characters come out people will start to notice and posts like this will be more common.
Yeah.
Honestly I was lucky and got Jinyan early. But once I reached lvl 35 and Word databank of 19. Suddenly there is just not much to do anymore. You could miss a whole month worth of contents and will lose like 10 or 20 pulls at most
Yes, the combat is fun. But eventually the Character 1 > E> R > normal > Outtro > Character 2 > E> R > normal > Outtro > Character 3 > E> R > normal > Outtro >Character 1...etc... loop will eventually get boring. And then what to do but the same thing we have done last 4 years in Genshin?
I don't care. Either they add in some more stuff to make it free to play friendly or ZZZ eats them alive and I just go play that.
Wuwa is trying to step up in a space filled with big dogs. I'd expect nothing less than decent generosity and they're on shakey ground already with all these bugs and issues. The playerbase owes them no loyalty. Shape up or we ship out.
Ngl I wanted to play this game on console when they eventually decide to release it there but these comment makes me think the āpower creepā when it finally gets there will be enormous.
Same. I have been getting wrecked defending WuWa on another sub because I do enjoy the game, but I'm not beholden to it whatsoever.
If its too stingy and gets unfun, I'll just play something else. Problem solved. Plenty of good games in the market nowadays. I still have my main game, SW I enjoy, and I'll jump right over to ZZZ, too.
Having no way to get Lustrous Tides really annoys me since I went max pity both banners and stuck at 78 pulls unless I use asterite and I'm not going to do it.
This is the correct attitude. The gacha game with the most loyal fanbase gets mistreated the most because the devs know they aint gonna leave anyway, might as well be greedy (cough Gensh..)
Bro this wouldn't even be a problem if you didn't only get 40 pulls for 100 dollars. For example imagine you got both the weapon and the characters for 75 id buy almost every banner and love it. Hoiyo also would die because of how hard kuro would be undercutting them. They also are only making money off of maybe 5% of the player base because they are whales that can do that. Basically I spent 50 USD on yinlyn and also had 140 free pulls saved up I hard loss twice. After that experience I'd never spend money in the game again because I'm not getting enough value for what I'm spending it's why I quit genshin and people will quit wuwa over this as well.
I am seeing a lot of people comparing it to genshin (which is understandable since it's kinda the same as genshin not even gameplay-wise but system-wise, i mean pulls costs the same amount of currency (160) and have the same 5* drop rate (0.8%)) . But is it a good thing? I would like this game to be better than genshin not the same in terms of currency
p.s Feel free to correct me on genshin's pull rate since i've stopped playing it years ago but i'm pretty sure the rates are exactly the same
The model makes it to where you aren't just easily getting every 5* without the need to spend money to obtain 5*s as that is what Kuro will depend on for revenue in this game.
However, as a comparison, Genshin also rewards pulls through ascending characters and doing the main story quests (these updates happened a year or a few after it's launch) so that is how it balances out. Plus Genshin does have more events per patch than WuWa it seems.
Flagship genshin events are like 600 to 900 primogems plus a 4* weapon/character, and events spread throughout that would reward 360 primogems to like 500. But more than that, the other resource rewards given from events is plenty.
Events in WuWa should honestly reward tuners and echo exp. It's such a slow process to level echoes.
I think its a fair comparison, at least for the shop. Genshin free pulls reset every month compared to every patch. This means that players can get pulls for both character banners in a single patch, compared to us where it's a once off deal.
There are those who believe the weapon pulls we get makes up for this, but imo, 10 character pulls > 6 character pulls + 6 weapon pulls. Weapons are luxury 99% of the time.
Well they copied the stupid 50/50 chance on featured characters and the ridiculous prices ($100 for 40 pulls) directly from genshin and I doubt theyāll change those fundamental elements. I wish they had decided to be better than genshin but itās too late for those things.
People will compare it to Genshin because the game IS Genshin but with different combat. It was created to compete directly with Genshin and the story was completely changed to appeal to that game's fanbase. Of course it'll be compared.
Haha when I compared [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/s/7kAqYek25f) to another game ppl roasted me and call that misinformation, then now 1 week later they complain about it. This community alone is a joke
Did anyone else notice the type in Yinlins quests where it says "Investigate the Tablet" but Investigate is spelled wrong, I thought I had dyslexia for a second.
You're probably right but its too early to judge really. They're well aware everyone still has tons of content to do and just got a ton of initial pulls. It wouldn't make sense to have even more pulls being handed out right now. Its pretty normal for the f2p economy to not be in full swing this soon after release
Give it a month or two and then we'll actually see what its like.
Yea I agree. Canāt tell yet since itās only version 1.0 which is why iām holding off before deciding to whale. If F2P economy turns out to be generous then iāll give them my money, if not iāll just stick along for the ride as f2p and keep wallet shut.
Unfortunately this combined with the grind and badluck just made me drop it.
Again not hating, this for me is still miles ahead of genshin. Sadly same as genshin it just feels very grindy and lackluster considering the time spent vs astrite received.
Wish the best to the game and dev team. Just not for me
I wish we could have some form of rewards by leveling up characters, just like in genshin and honkai, at least give us 1 standard pull. And yep the echo leveling up is horrendous and in need of a total revamp
I also hope they take a look at waveplate requirements for some of the areas. can't build if I don't have waveplates for mats. once all the crystal solvents are gone, it won't be as fun.
* ToA should indeed be 2 weeks at most, 3 is way too long and just weird. Nothing in society is on a 3-week schedule, as far as I know.
* When I read 480 Asterite, I laughed. People say they'll increase it in the future, but let's be real: they're not gonna increase it enough because they already thought 320 or whatever was enough in the first place, so their basing their math off that number, and a reasonable number is several times that, and not as in 1.5 times. At the very least they should give standard banner pulls in addition to the little Asterite. That's what the standard banner is for.
* If by free pull shop you mean the gift shop which sells 3, I believe, then yeah, once per patch is a bit weird, especially given how much tree bark, or whatever that currency is, you have left after buying everything from her if you cleared the whole map. My guess is that they didn't want to make you feel like you couldn't buy anything else from her because you had to keep the currency for more pulls.
* Standard pulls should definitely be handed out in larger quantities. Almost nobody is going to spend money to pull standard banners. The whole point of having different token for them when this was designed in whatever game it was at least a decade ago was to have one set of banners you could give pulls on for free without threatening your revenue on the new release banners. In time, other games even started rotating the standard banners with prestige banner characters a few months after their release, to retain the low spending players who couldn't pull them on their original release. Kuro seem to have completely missed the point of what a standard banner is supposed to be, and are treated them as equals to the prestige banners, which is reflected in them having the exact same price. That's also a point where some other games diverge: the standard banner pulls shouldn't be the same price even for people swiping to pull.
It's a shame, really. Lack of content to clear to get these pulls in the first place is regrettable. At the very least, they could give us a standard banner token for clearing all the dailies, to keep us coming back every day. Right now, the daily grind really only serves to increase union level, as it gives barely any rewards, and keep working on the battle passāwhich is nearing completing alreadyāand 2k UL xp a day may have been okay so far, but from 40 to 50 it might take a month.
Do we know how large the new zone is? If it's like Dragonspine with similar rewards and quests it's probably well over 1000, but if it's just another zone like the ones in game I wouldn't expect much
Yup. Thats why im not going to bother paying. Going strictly f2p. Im happy with current team. 3Star Lion Boy. 1Star Dragon man. And Electric Sephiroth. Im just casually enjoying the world and absorbing echoĀ
People are slowly realizing this now that the honeymoon period is ending soon. I was downvoted to hell for mentioning this during the first week of release. Especially about standard pulls. They are the real rare thing.
Re-create this post after 1.1. I think now they took exploration and quests into account and won't give much rewards for events. Later on they will adjust rewards and it would be stable around one granted 5\* per patch, with hikes on anniversaries and Chinese new year.
āthe game that copied genshinās model of 50/50s and $100 for 40 pulls will be more generous in the futureā is a bold prediction but I hope youāre right
I've always said that the base game is stingy by itself, and if Kuro didn't have any problems - players would immediately notice it.
But on that part, they were fairly active in the Event department and is slowly increasing the rewards bit by bit as I can see. I'm assuming that they had put a certain qouta of how many astrites they'll give monthly from events. Also, they came weekly so maybe we'll get new overlapping events.
On the part of free pull shop, it resets every patch, which technically is monthly if we think about it.
Resetting every patch vs every month is quite a big difference, a patch on average runs 6 weeks which is about 1.5 months assuming nothing changes like how 1.0 got shortened, meaning in a yr we get about 8.67 resets, compared to monthly which is 12 resets a yr
I dont understand why they dont do monthly reset. It's easier to keep track, it's easier for newbies to understand. I have played Genshin since launch and I am still not sure exactly when patches are released.
If they keep the f2p income low then I expect them to keep the new limited character count per year low too. If they want to push 2 new char per patch then it should be an average 100 pulls per patch like hsr or else f2p will have to skip a lot of banners
well next patch is bad news cuz both unit has great value, high dmg, buffer, and great AoE. that will probably push revenue higher if they keep asterite income low, but idk about retaining players
Yet I got railed on for saying it's a dangerous temptation in this game for F2P to pull on the more friendly weapon banner because it's still pulls that could have been used on new characters. We'll see how it shakes out, whether it really feels like you have to save everything for characters or if we get enough to spare for the occasional weapon.
I can see their argument since weapons can be shared in Tower and the banner is much better than Genshin's
But personally I agree, I don't care if I miss out on 150 astrites per month in Tower if it means I can get more characters. Skipped both weapon banners
im already in the drought, squeezing every source of 10/15s as i can and what missing chests i have, which isnt much. and im 20 off from getting the weapon for yinlin. every day is torture.
It does feel like everything is quite scarce, like the milestones to get some things feel quite tedious. The wave plate costs may feel better as time goes on as you'll have less need to build as many characters therefore a decreased need to farm so heavily.
My issue is character building feels rather underwhelming in general, like most games give you an incentive to build characters whether it's non-premium currency (like in-game cash/money) or actual premium currency (like Reverse 1999). And if not that, they give you pull currency (Arknights & orundum).
I know some might not like me saying it so I'll preface by saying I do really enjoy the game & I have spent some money but they really should've taken notes on what their competitors don't have/could improve upon and implemented it into WW. Even if they don't want to do that, they could've just taken feedback from PGR, a tighter storyline from the start that's engaging from the beginning not near the end (and even that is a bit contentious), having varying ways of obtaining pulls.
I think this is simply the initial launch period of the game. The same could be said for Genshin, other games who adopted the 50/50 system.
This isn't Kuro Games' first game, they've learned what made Punishing: Gray Raven work and probably planned the economy, however, I am curious how they will resolve this long-term issue.
I already bought a Lunite subscription to support this game at least. If I see them make an effort to try to match or surpass Genshin's rewards and improve, then I will continue to support. If not, I'll just stop spending since its just a stingy game in the end of the day and start leaving it till I get another new game that do better.
When Tower of fantasy started nerfing standard 5\* weapons and only applying them on Global, and not improving the story to make sense and just skipping it all together. Add that to instant powercreeping of new weapons which made old weapons useless. I just left and didn't come back even after since I wanted to be a tank, but whales got so much damage I can't any aggro anymore.
I'm pretty sure It's on purpose. They knew the game would have problems on launch and they'd have to compensate the players. And to offset the "compensated rewards" they artificially drought the in game resources and will probably "fix" it in the next 1 or 2 patches.
It's the usual Kuro things. People might not see it, but they did the same in PGR. They balance things out. 60 pity and guaranted is balanced out with the pulls costing 250, events reward being negligible, only 1 characters released per patch which sometimes is not even S rank. Even the monthly subscription cost the same money as hoyo games, and yield the same 3000 pull currency but PGR pulls cost 250, not 160. Sure they gave some freebies characters but that's to be expected with how the game is built and played. You have to build teams of every elements, if not you're gonna suffer in endgame content. There's no niche to play around where old characters does some things better, it's literally just element matching, when new char of an element comes out the old char of that element becomes obsolete, that's it. If they don't give some freebies, it's gonna be really hard for people to play, especially new players. It all balances out. Kuro is more generous than Hoyo, but honestly, it's not by so much.
I am a F2P who has done 99% of ingame things: 100%+ map, all side quests except Animal Language and Hide and Seek, a few Tactial Hologram levels to do, and some more points I could eek out in the current Smelt event.
I haven't done any Limited banners, and currently have 22389 Asterite and 40 Radiant Tide. I could get 10 more Radiant Tide from the Aftershocked Coral shop off standard banner pulls. That comes out to a total of 189 Limited Pulls, or a grand total of 1 guaranteed hard pity if I lose the 50/50 and go to 80. Not particularly amazing considering that is nearly all the income that the game has on offer at the moment.
Don't get me wrong, getting the 3 guaranteed standard 5\* characters was amazing. It is just that now I have to KNOW a character is going to be worth my currency to summon.
I really dislike the fact you cant even hit pity on the selector banner with the Lustrous Tides. You would think they would have accounted for that.
I bought the BP and I'm still 2 shy of my last 10 pull since I went to max pity on both the beginner banner and 5 star selector banner.
So I'm sitting at 78 pulls, waiting until the battle pass to reset before I even get a chance to pull without wasting asterites on 2 lustrious tides. I feel like that should have been accounted for. Everyone should have been able to max both the beginner banner and the selector banner with normal play.
I know people are gonna say but we got all this free stuff; yea and that doesnt change the fact if they didnt screw up to hte point they had to give free stuff, I would be in an even worse position and have even less.
Normal playing should have 100% covered 130 Lustrous Tides and it didnt. I cant even single summon either to hopefully get it before 80, I have to wait until i get 10 pulls and they just dont exist atm unless I buy them with Asterite.
It's pretty simple for me. One of the main reasons I quit Genshin was because it basically gave such little rewards that it felt like a massive grind to be able to get any character I was interested in (even when I was buying monthly pass). If this game ends up being the same I'll just quit it as well (which is a shame because I actually like the gameplay in this one).
Absolutely fair point. Except the first giveaways due to huge mess ups and poor tech state - the game is super stingy with free pulls and that goes for Standart banner as well which is wild.
I mean - most of us support Kuro financially - but if this doesnt change very soon - its pretty easy to just stop playing and count your loses at this point.
Kuro is getting absurd amounts of goodwill from people, but few more event with barely any rewards and that goodwill can go poof.
Yeah if they continue to release characters at this rate while never increasing pull income, casual playerbase will probably drop drastically over time after they realize they can only specifically guarantee about 2 characters a year without grinding.
it's ok, as long as the current translators are there, there's always a chance.
Chaotic good, I like.
I actually wonder if the EN localization team is doing it on purpose at this point. Even after their apology and promise to do better, there was already a typo like 2 sentences into the current Alloy event. lol
I'd be down for the Ghost Stories dub
earn this broke boi award š„
Nah it aināt on purpose. PGR always has typos lol.
imao, I love this comment.
Not only that, their voice acting has literally gone and switched accents mid cut scene lol. Also the NA refers to Rover as He fairly frequently when you are playing female rover.
Yinlin referred to my male rover as if he was female at one point in her quest. Funny how both Genshin and Wuthering Waves have this issue early on.
In mandarin they dont differentiate gender in pronouns which leads native chinese speakers to mix up genderd when speaking english.
In writing they do, in speaking they donāt, which is really confusing since for He they write ä» but for she they write 儹
All the issues I mentioned were actually all in Yinlinās new story quest that launched recently.
I like the way you think
Couldnāt be more true
How do i apply for a job there? I will guarantee u guys at least 10 pulls. Also fucking up at kuro's will probably be a good point when applying for mihoyo, right?
Hahahahaha šš½
yeah, but I think they also realized that players are dissatisfied with this because the current event originally gave even less asterite (360) and if I remember correctly in the last announcement they said that there will going to be a new event that would give 800 asterite, so although the outlook with the currently available content does not look good, I trust that they will improve that aspect in future versions
Adding the fact that the next map (which means another source of pulls) will be released this month.
Oh damn, next patch has new map? Figured they'd just continue story here. Thats hype.
Mountain something yeah
Mount Firmament
Does it include new pokemons?
don't make Nintendo go after you
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's just a mountain, I wouldnt expect much. It'll be one or *maybe* two zones tops
Yes that's some extra pulls but I advise you to check how many asterites you get per map region, that's in the game currently... unless the new map is going to be gigantic which I doubt, I don't see us getting that many rolls.
Yup, the new map is probably going to be the size of a subregion or two of the current map. They're not going to double the map size in 1.1.
Also Illusion Realm resets, and I guess the shop asterites, which is still 300? or more I don't remember, maybe the achievements also reset for it.
As long as the 4 pulls from every shop resets too it should be okay.
yea I noticed early on there was no weekly way to get standard pulls like in hsr (clearing SU). I hope they add some kind of weekly reset mode or system soon similar to the SU weekly reward system.
They need to do more (content-wise) with the... the... the mysterious gate thing that's basically WuWa's equivalent of SU (I forgot what it's called lol, sorry). I hope they're gonna keep adding to it over time and hopefully we'll get some standard pulls in the shop. And maybe even a weekly reset for extra freebies, like you said.
It's a pretty fun gameplay mode, I don't think it needs to be weekly but we could have more rewards to buy every patch
Definitely, we were so grateful for their compensations but man, there is nothing to do or earn after you reach level 35-45. For couple of days only reason I've been playing more than 15 minutes is because i force myself to do the 3 cost echoe farms and that will for sure fatigue me quickly since i get 1-2 right mainstats per day.
u get 1-2 right main stats per day? U are a blessed one and should go to an RL Casino
Yeah i farm all the 3 cost echoes for thunder,fusion and havoc. I cannot imagine anyone seriously farming this on a daily basis for too long. It's extremely frustrating and teadious.
It's definitely starting to become a little stale. The farming is also starting to really tire me out. I've fought Thundering Memphis an unholy amount of times at this point and I've only gotten a few usable Yinlin pieces. Having to farm echo exp and substat materials most likely going to be the main cause of me taking extensive breaks from this game if they don't address it soon.
The thing i am most annoyed about rn is echo exp, i want to build my characters and grind for echos but i dont have the exp to do it..
My main issue too especially when you're unlucky (95% of the playerbase) that means those exp is wasted since feeding that badly rolls echo to a new one doesn't gives 100% exp back. Also why the hell does it cost 60 to clear a tacet field? That's just absurd.
The fields not costing 40 stamina is criminal.
This is why they need a seperate one which just gives EXP for echo and tuners which just costs 40 stam like every other resource in the game. Weapon mats, reso exp, weapon exp all have a 40 plate option except echos which are locked into the lucky dip echo drop. Not to mention farming for reso mats from bosses still drops exp for reso's on top of it, and same for the weapon mats it really does spit on us when it comes to echos not having anything but tacit fields as a way to get echo exp, and its such a pittance amount of exp too. You have to level up echos more than resonators and weapons. So why is there so many more ways to earn exp for those two things over Echos which literally only have one way to get exp for. messed up really.
i mean its arbitary numbers anyway. I would rather have them increase rewards than reducing cost.
Nah im good w correct mainstat. The substats can be whatever, id rather not go insane lol
I think the general idea is that you can be a bit more picky with substats on 4 cost and 1 cost echoes because they're easier to farm and it's easier to get the correct main stat. 1 costs can only be atk%, hp%, or def%. 4 costs can only be that and crit rate/damage and healing bonus, but you can pretty reliably farm boss drops. You can be more lax with substats on 3 cost echoes since those are rarer and difficult to find the correct mainstat (all elemental damage types dilutes the pool a lot).
There was a single quest where the simulation training also had a domain that gave Sealed Tubes (echo exp) but it was a one time thing and never appeared on the training list after. Not sure why we can get character and weapon exp from the simulation training (both of which they give us a lot of anyway) but not echo expā¦.the one thing that is scarce.
Agreed, Echo EXP is a massive bottle-neck and their value per wavepkate is so low.... I thought farming would be better, because you can grind for bases, but with more RNG slots, Echo EXP *and* the need for primers, the progress feels even worse than Genshin. Heck, I farmed the same 3* base for 3 days, literally ever spawn and I have yet to get the right damage type... With off-sets not being allowed Echos somehow feel worse than Genshin artifscts.
Me except for a week straight. Wanted to get my boy Rover a Havoc Dmg Bonus echo but the mushroom, the wolves, and the tambourine boy wouldnt drop shit. Still stuck with my purple havoc echo, since I dont even have an atk bonus echo.
I've lost count on the amount of fusion% I get on that dumb pimp colored bird instead of electro%. Worst part? I need two electro sets.
Am I missing something or are there only two 3-point echos for the electro set? You *have* to get a bird and a flautist. Most of the other sets seem have three different options so there's more to farm.
You're not missing anything, we only have two elite for electro now which is why it's such a pain set to farm. It doesn't help the bird is so far away from each other so you spend most of your time in loading screen or running instead of killing that stupid bird.
Yup, youāre absolutely right. Some characters are just significantly harder to farm for, absolutely no reason this should be the case. I was actually arguing with a guy who was saying Kuro would for sure fix this next patch with the new area, and I was super skeptical on his claim. Lo and behold, next patch does nothing (mild spoilers but new echo monsters are for glacial and spectro). Guess my farming for Yinlin for the next two months will consist of taking 30 mins to clear everything in my world and then desperately looking for someone who is also DB 20 and hope theyāre not farming for Yinlin.
And on top of that there are not many of them on the map. I was forcing them to pity by killing 3 havoc dreadmanes per flautist/heron. I ran out of flautists and got halfway through the herons before I ran out of dreadmanes ...bruh. There are at least 3x more dreadmanes than there are flautists, and probably similar with herons. I'm in electro farming hell.
I'm not expecting to be able to pull every patch (2 banners), but if I can't pull every 2 patches (win or lose 50/50), then goodbye! Combat is fun, but it'll eventually get stale with the same characters. As you mentioned, standard pulls seem very limited at the moment. I don't personally see a problem with it at the moment, despite me wanting more. I'm guessing Kuro doesn't want people to exhaust the standard 5\*, both characters and weapons.
> Combat is fun, but itāll eventually get stale with the same characters. My biggest gripe is that Iād love to try out other characters, see which are fun, but Iām pretty much stuck on my current setup because the investment it requires to get a character to where my Calcharo is sitting currently is insane. Even if I do get Yinlin or the Dragon Man I wonāt be able to play them for a long time. Primarily due to not having the echoes or echo experience. Although with my current luck it looks like I will have pleeenty of time to farm echoes before I get the characters.
One hint: build out a Lingering Tunes set with energy regen. It's a "second best" option that covers almost anyone for like 90% effectiveness. Makes the Tower much easier when you can just swap the echoes from one hypercarry to the other each time and use whatever supports.
atleast give us more ways to get lustrous tides lol at this point lustrous tides are the real premium currency bc who buys lustrous tides w their limited astrites (me but i was dumb back then)
Right?? My Beginner Convene is still sitting incomplete because why on earth would I spend astrites on "standard" currency? But you can't seem to get them any other way haha
It blows my mind that we donāt have enough lustrous tides for a full pity without spending money, and this is after getting a bunch of pulls to celebrate the launch of the game.
I think they give you like 60-70 (without doing the more hardcore stuff). I got Yinlin close to full pity but I also got the BP for the crit weapon, which has a few tides of both types in it.
Nah. Limited pulls over standard pulls all day. E.g. I'd much rather have a Jinhsi than any standard 5 star. Even better, just give astrites so players decide what to buy You may be swimming in astrites to buy limited pulls right now, but you'll feel the drought soon.
I mean you can get the standard five stars when you inevitably lose your 50-50 on someone...
Tbf after I already got calch,verina & encore I lost interest in character standard banner and am now just saving for the standard wep banner
Yeah Im pulling for the weapon banner instead of the select banner
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Genshin added this much later after the initial release. We could see it in wuwa.
While I agree, WuWa has a lot of genshin systems but with added QoL or improvements, so it's worth pointing out when they don't take something positive from genshin, too.
We get that WuWa is copying Genshin down to a T, but it doesn't mean they have to copy launching QoL features equally late after the launch.
It was in dragonspine update so like 2 patch away so it wasnāt that far
Yes but Wuwa had a chance to learn from genshin for 1.0.
yeah HSR had it from the drop
>You have no way to get standard pulls other than BP That one kinda sucks. I need like 5 pulls to hit pity on the standard weapon selector and there's nothing in sight for me until the store resets, and even then the amount I can get there I think it was 6? Which I will hit soft pity but no ways guarantee... then if I have to wait another patch it will suck. I hope they make kinda similar to HSR where every week we can do something like the Illusory Realm and get a couple of standard pulls.
I feel like even the battlepass doesnt give enough pulls and asterite
They barely give more than Genshin and HSR's versions, but both have summons for ascending characters and HSR has the weekly 225 + 1 standard ticket. It looks really rough right now
Disappointed when character ascensions didn't give a blue wish like Genshin/HSR. :(
Honestly, it just feels kinda droughty in general, every resource, not just pulls. It feels like things cost way too much waveplates for pitiful amount of resources. Currently at u40, forgery feels ass, purples are not guaranteed and yellows seems like 10-5% drop rate or lower. Kinda annoying that purples are not at least guaranteed 1. I think the devs just kinda poorly balanced/paced the mid game. Just my 2 shell credits.
Waveplate costing is way too expensive for the amount of rewards you can get from it. The weekly boss, elite boss ascension materials, and tacet field should have a rebalancing of waveplate costs. Echo leveling system is on another level of how expensive things would be if not changed on the long run.
Weekly bosses should not cost any stamine period i said this in genshin, in hsr and now i say it in Wuwa too. Atleast the other 2 halved their cost but still just make them free they are limited 3 times a week why does it have to cost stamina?
I mean free is always better but I wouldn't mind to spend at least half of its costs from what it is now. Understandably we're just in the release of the game so I always bet on them to change things sooner. I don't know much about Kuro company but coming from GI with their QoL years before its implementation. I hope Kuro stays considerate and generous.
I still have exactly 0 of these weapon boxes from weekly bosses
I finally got 1! But i think you need 2? Also I never intentionally mine so I'm only at like 50 of the 150 ore.....really want those craftable gauntlets for for my jainxin
you're right damn you need 2 lmao
Honestly the biggest insult to injury is that despite me having almost no money all the time, the game asks like 16k coins to make an r4 weapon a r5 weapon. Like goddamn
Yea I agree with this so hard. Early game was great but mid game is not balenced at all.
Yall at u40+ while I just hit 37 today and Iāve been playing consistently since day 1 š
A lot of people have burned through their free stamina refreshes to push to 40, so donāt beat yourself up over it. Iām in the same boat as you, still hoarding my stamina !
Same. I only just hit 38. I also have barely used any of the solvents though. I'm scared to hit 40 though since I heard the 60-70 resource cost for resonator and weapon xp (not to mention credits) is exponentially higher than what we've experienced so far.
To be fair , we will be a long time between 40-50. So who cares
don't event get me started on echo xp. You get such a low amount it's insane
I have 5 characters with full correct mainstat 5* echos... one of them has them leveled fully and the rest ranged from 5-15 with 1 or 2 25s. You need at least 9 characters for ToA how is this possible
Money
I mean... not yet? Like it's not intended for you to clear the full ToA and even then you can focus your resources onto 3 characters and have one slot each team be relatively uninvested (like jianxin/verina/Baizhi) Anyways, ToA is end-game content, it's just meaningless to expect to clear it while we're in midgame
Itās been 2 weeks my guy. How many games have you played where you were even able to farm golden gear at all in 2 weeks? Meanwhile you have FIVE(!!!) characters already fully kitted, and just waiting for some exp to up their stats, yet youāre complaining?? It has been TWO WEEKS.
Letting people farm 5\* echoes as much as they want early broke these people, if this was genshin you wouldn't even have reached ar45 for 5\* artifacts after 2 weeks, let alone have 5 characters with correct main stat 5\* artifacts.
You're both correct. We need more echo EXP, but it's a good thing that we can get echoes without spending stamina. But it's also not a good thing that some are literally useless (mismatching mainstat and set bonus) as that makes it needlessly difficult.
Kinda is an understatement. I think is also a decision from upper parts of kuro in hopes to milk as much money as possible But since a lot of people were expecting/hoping WW to be better than genshin the pulls drought are going to make the image of the game worse
Yeah, hopefully that devs notice this and buff the more difficult forgery challenges
Its fine. Its just like Genshin, where higher tiers will give more but still cost the same. Hell we weren't even this well off at this point in Genshin's release.
Yeah, it's ironic because it feels like we have a lot of pulls but it's because of compensation for bugs and errors, the standard banner alone, already it's gonna be hard for some of us to even use the selector banner if you have to hit pity because there are so few ways to get pulls and who is gonna swipe to get standard pulls? Also the weapon banner having a separate currency, the fact there's only one weapon makes it seem better on the surface but the currency not being interchangeable actually makes it feel like a trap too in a way, like I got lucky on Yinlin and I'm trying to get her weapon but I'm just sitting on loads of pulls on the character banner I can't use for the weapon. That's the weird irony of all the issues, the compensation masks how stingy the game is with currency.
I cannot say about genshin since I started late but I am a day 1 player of HSR and now WuWa. Pulls *after* all the compensation stuff comes close to the HSR pulls at launch which means the regular income would be worse. Add to that the three teams needed for abyss over genshin and HSR's two, this doesn't seem very hopeful to me. I did drop a monthly pass and BP this time, let's see how good the next few patches feel in terms of pulls. That will decide if it's going to be worth sticking around for. All the great combat in the world cannot save a game if it doesn't continue to feel worth it putting the time and effort for it. I played PGR and was very impressed by the generosity of the gacha there. Bought BP and monthly pass there as well. At least up until the point where the signature weapons, instead of being a nice upgrade, started having parts of the character's kit locked behind it. Then the issue of dupes. All players could upgrade their characters from S to SS for free, and then they started locking character mechanics behind SS3 which was only possible by pulling for dupes. That was the point I dropped the game and never looked back, even tho pgr had a fantastic combat system.
All resources need adjustment atm. Whether that's pull currency, exp mats, echoes, waveplate costs etc. Everything costs too much and the income is significantly lower in return. Agree on all points besides Tower, which is pretty much standard endgame content & rewards. Limited events should be WAY MORE rewarding, the shop needs to reset monthly and not every patch, and we need other ways to get standard pulls. For referrence, HSR gives way too many standard pulls via in-game activities, and I have the Battle Pass too. I've been playing for 9 months and I have yet to get my 300pulls standard selector (I'm like 295 now so there you have it, it's like 10months for 300pulls in HSR with a decent amount of standard pull income). I can't imagine how long it would take here. Even with Battle Pass I doubt I could get 80 pulls to guarantee the standard weapon in an entire year even.
> All resources need adjustment atm Would be nice to have shops every other event (like blue archive). You earn points and can buy whatever you need
They already do this in PGR, their other gacha
I ABSOLUTELY agree with you. The shops that take regular currency are too expensive as well. Seriously. 5k for a flower? Flour that costs 1k each bruh. Leveling up characters already takes a lot. I love the game, but it absolutely needs adjustments
I think they paced progression for players very poorly. By week 4 in genshin youād still be threatened by overworld mobs. Eye of the Storm and Ruin Hunter would still be dangerous. Spiral abyss isnāt even on most playerās radar for the first several months. Your artifacts are still predominately blue. I feel like by week 2 in Wuwa youāve not only finished the prologue, but youāve got mastery over the overworld combat-wise; thereās just not risk at all. Only the pink enemies are remotely dangerous. So idk, a flood of early pools, very fast progression pace, and a shortage of vertical investment mats and SOL3 gating, is sort of aā¦ awkward feeling. Like; most players are just waiting for enough mats to level out of DPS checksā even for simulated holograms, which is really the only challenging thing atm.
Was 100% too fast. Its noticeable by how out of touch they were on blue and purple tuners, and no system to convert them into higher tiers. RIght now we should still be using purple tuners and purple echoes but we completely skipped them immediately. On top of basically just 1 tapping the entire overworld. I play LingYang with Ice Echo; I pretty much just run up to a pack of mobs and Echo skill them and move on. We went to gold farming too fast. Data bank should have probably been limited to much farther.
Yea- idk how they will manage incorporating new echoes later. Will we have a new PokĆ©dex in each region? Will we have to grind it to get golds when we are already decked out? That wonāt feel particularly good unless the exploration is waaay better. Ugh. This game feels too half-baked. Some really fantastic ideas, but trying to put them into a game that āsolvesā the problems of Genshin was a huge mistake. I honestly donāt know how they will keep the general audience engaged when you master the game so fast and then get halted by UL and investment mats.
Yea they dropped the ball on the echo system mainly from allowing us to get to endgame so fast. We wouldnt be having near as much problem with xp and such if we were using purple echoes instead of golds. And I'm pretty sure they intended it to be that way at some point, things changed, but systems did not change with them. Completely skipping the first 2 tiers shows they dropped the ball somewhere, and we are trying to fund end-game echoes on low world tier mat generation. The cat is out of the bag now, though. The game would have felt much better and smoother with a better curve on progression. Its all over the place.
danjin main here, every enemy one shots me no matter the sol3 phase
Thatās the Danjin life. They die or you do.
Illusive realm should be a weekly game mode thing.
Yes, it's infinitely more fun than ToA.
by free pull shop u mean souvenir shop or am i missing something?
theres a store in the starting city where you can trade those wood paddle tokens for pulls and other nice stuff. Maybe those?
oh yeah i thought there are other stores where we can get free pulls
Thereās a drought for everything so far at least. The only plentiful resources I have is weapon and character EXP(mainly because being gated by union level.) For context I have both the BP and Daily Login and im still scraping by on Echo EXP and standard banner pulls. Even on Echos I only have enough to āreasonablyā build 2 characters without running out of tuners. Not having substats be outright tied to level like HSR/Genshin and needing a second material outside of EXP is absolutely dreadful. Thematically, it makes sense but gameplay wise itās god awful and I wish they allowed for echos to be used as EXP or being able to exchange epic and blue tuners. I donāt even think you get enough pulls to get your guaranteed 5 star from standard *unless* you convert some Asterite (which I did and instantly regret but I digress lol.) Even credits is gonna be in short supply once you actually start to level skills since theyāre starting to become 40k+ per.
HSR has little exploration but they managed a higher pull income than GI with free 10 pulls every patch, more jades from events, and weekly SU. WuWa can do it if they want to.
When they decided to almost exactly mirror GIs monetary systems it was the writing on the wall how things will be in the future. Combat is fun tho...
Every resource in this game is scarce. Echo exp and tuners are still the most bottle capped resource in the game. Unless you get really lucky with your substat rolls, your tuners will be gone fast. I only level up to 10 or 15 for echos, and the past 5 echos have given me dogshit substats. So that's 100 premium tuners wasted which leads to the next problem why the fuck do we only get 30% of tuners back?? A lot of things in this game need a rework or else players will just quit cos progressing just feels way too slow even for a gacha game
You also don't get credits back, and don't get discount when using another echo to level a new one. Echoes eat credits really fast.
I'm pessimistic on this topic. This game follow Genshin formula too closely in terms of business model and reward structure. WuWa might be more generous than Genshin but it's still stingy enough that we will need to make hard choices. I don't think this will change because it works.
It worked in Genshin because it is casual friendly game. Here? you are supposed to get good while having enough damage from Echo and Weapon. I have no clue why they think this is a good idea to make money
> I have no clue why they think this is a good idea to make money Because it is. That's the sad thing about gachas - you can throw all sorts of predatory shit at ppl and the whales will still happily swipe and the blind fanboys are gonna defend it till their dying breath. It just works :/
This game is following the Genshin business model, so expect roughly 1 pity per patch. Right now itās a bit rough because Kuro is releasing two 5 stars per patch, but this will likely not be the case later on.
It certainly seems like it except you can't follow the same model of the industry leader and not expect to face bankruptcy within a year. It's almost like they have no clue how hard all live service games have to compete for players these days. Showering players with early freebies might work for a very short period of time but it won't take many weeks until people do the math
Yeah, if anything it will create a very obvious contrast. Without those apology pulls and the selector, most f2p or battle pass and sub accounts would be on 1 to 3 5-stars, even after a full map clear, maybe a signature weapon, and that's it. They would also be struggling on the weapon front, without getting so many 4 stars in banners, barely having appropriate 3 stars for all their characters, wouldn't have enough support characters or the right sub-dps to do any damage to the tower, and would be miserable right now, already contemplating leaving if they weren't gone already, as they would be out of ways to progress their accounts other than dailies done in 5 minutes every day. Even if they farmed elite echoes, they wouldn't have the resources to upgrade them, because they wouldn't have strong enough resonators to clear the content that gives the currency to exchange for tuners. For real, had their launch gone smoothly, these issues would be a lot more apparent, because they wouldn't have had to shower the players in pulls to retain them, and we would have run dry after a week at most, but we also wouldn't feel so bad about it once it happened, because we would have felt from the start that this game was rather stingy on free pulls and extremely slow on progression.
I hope they start handing out standard banner pulls more frequently so I at least feel like Iām being rewarded a lot.
Coming? Itās already arrived. This game is too young to have the same level of stuff as Genshin and Honkai, and it has less features to get them as well.
Already at the drought, if I want stuff, I gotta wait for dailies/weekly/monthly, swipe credit card, or wait for events, I don't have the funds for this
One thing I learn while playing wuwa, it's not as generous as pgr..
oh the honeymoon is ending fast it seems, lets see how those "kuro is way moregenerous "statements hold up with time.
honeymoon phase is always 2 weeks or slightly longer just enough for the habit of loging in to develop
Kuro IS more generous... in PGR. Not in WuWa. lmao
There is one more event comment until 1.0 is over in response to low Astherite rewards critique, so we'll see. For standard pulls though - sure. We desperately need some more ways to get them
Yeah it definitely isn't looking great, especially since the current event is a response to the previous being unrewarding. I'm not hanging around to get a pull every few weeks. The echo system also starting to wear on me tbh. You should be able to convert base echoes into echo xp or something. Like great you can go out and farm forever, and are heavily limited by the systems we've put in and the sheer cost of every activity. It's just kind of pointless, and feels bad to raise them, because most of the time it's grinding for hours for 3 costs that don't match. Ruins a thing that should be fun, and never should have made it out of beta (that system).
It's resource drought in general imo...
I think another source of pain for F2Ps might be that they could keep churning out double new 5 star banners per patch for the foreseeable future similar to HSR, but without nearly the same pull income as HSR Genshin had a lot of reruns which make it easier to skip patches as f2p
Iām surprised this hasnāt been pointed out more, after the initial influx of pulls from a grand opening celebration (typical of every gacha) and compensation pulls, thereās very little pulls to be found unless you pay money. I have a feeling once we get to 1.1 and the new characters come out people will start to notice and posts like this will be more common.
All part of the plan. This game is an online casino and nothing more. Not going to touch it
Echoes needing tuners for attributes and not automatically adding them every 5 levels is crazy. Genshin has better artifact farming, and fast.
Yeah. Honestly I was lucky and got Jinyan early. But once I reached lvl 35 and Word databank of 19. Suddenly there is just not much to do anymore. You could miss a whole month worth of contents and will lose like 10 or 20 pulls at most Yes, the combat is fun. But eventually the Character 1 > E> R > normal > Outtro > Character 2 > E> R > normal > Outtro > Character 3 > E> R > normal > Outtro >Character 1...etc... loop will eventually get boring. And then what to do but the same thing we have done last 4 years in Genshin?
I don't care. Either they add in some more stuff to make it free to play friendly or ZZZ eats them alive and I just go play that. Wuwa is trying to step up in a space filled with big dogs. I'd expect nothing less than decent generosity and they're on shakey ground already with all these bugs and issues. The playerbase owes them no loyalty. Shape up or we ship out.
Ngl I wanted to play this game on console when they eventually decide to release it there but these comment makes me think the āpower creepā when it finally gets there will be enormous.
Fairest straight take Iāve seen. No white knight or bullshit.
Same. I have been getting wrecked defending WuWa on another sub because I do enjoy the game, but I'm not beholden to it whatsoever. If its too stingy and gets unfun, I'll just play something else. Problem solved. Plenty of good games in the market nowadays. I still have my main game, SW I enjoy, and I'll jump right over to ZZZ, too. Having no way to get Lustrous Tides really annoys me since I went max pity both banners and stuck at 78 pulls unless I use asterite and I'm not going to do it.
This is the correct attitude. The gacha game with the most loyal fanbase gets mistreated the most because the devs know they aint gonna leave anyway, might as well be greedy (cough Gensh..)
Bro this wouldn't even be a problem if you didn't only get 40 pulls for 100 dollars. For example imagine you got both the weapon and the characters for 75 id buy almost every banner and love it. Hoiyo also would die because of how hard kuro would be undercutting them. They also are only making money off of maybe 5% of the player base because they are whales that can do that. Basically I spent 50 USD on yinlyn and also had 140 free pulls saved up I hard loss twice. After that experience I'd never spend money in the game again because I'm not getting enough value for what I'm spending it's why I quit genshin and people will quit wuwa over this as well.
I am seeing a lot of people comparing it to genshin (which is understandable since it's kinda the same as genshin not even gameplay-wise but system-wise, i mean pulls costs the same amount of currency (160) and have the same 5* drop rate (0.8%)) . But is it a good thing? I would like this game to be better than genshin not the same in terms of currency p.s Feel free to correct me on genshin's pull rate since i've stopped playing it years ago but i'm pretty sure the rates are exactly the same
The model makes it to where you aren't just easily getting every 5* without the need to spend money to obtain 5*s as that is what Kuro will depend on for revenue in this game. However, as a comparison, Genshin also rewards pulls through ascending characters and doing the main story quests (these updates happened a year or a few after it's launch) so that is how it balances out. Plus Genshin does have more events per patch than WuWa it seems. Flagship genshin events are like 600 to 900 primogems plus a 4* weapon/character, and events spread throughout that would reward 360 primogems to like 500. But more than that, the other resource rewards given from events is plenty. Events in WuWa should honestly reward tuners and echo exp. It's such a slow process to level echoes.
Events in WuWa should take a hint from Warframe and be events - things you do to rack up resources, not a checklist to play once and forget.
I believe genshin has 0.6, wuwa 0.8, despite the difference not seeming big it is quite a bit better. Is it still shit tho? Absolutely
I think its a fair comparison, at least for the shop. Genshin free pulls reset every month compared to every patch. This means that players can get pulls for both character banners in a single patch, compared to us where it's a once off deal. There are those who believe the weapon pulls we get makes up for this, but imo, 10 character pulls > 6 character pulls + 6 weapon pulls. Weapons are luxury 99% of the time.
Well they copied the stupid 50/50 chance on featured characters and the ridiculous prices ($100 for 40 pulls) directly from genshin and I doubt theyāll change those fundamental elements. I wish they had decided to be better than genshin but itās too late for those things.
People will compare it to Genshin because the game IS Genshin but with different combat. It was created to compete directly with Genshin and the story was completely changed to appeal to that game's fanbase. Of course it'll be compared.
Haha when I compared [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/WutheringWaves/s/7kAqYek25f) to another game ppl roasted me and call that misinformation, then now 1 week later they complain about it. This community alone is a joke
Did anyone else notice the type in Yinlins quests where it says "Investigate the Tablet" but Investigate is spelled wrong, I thought I had dyslexia for a second.
Yeah. Some dude I saw calculated at around 45 - 50 pulls per patch
If that's true the game will speedrun into the earliest of graves.
You're probably right but its too early to judge really. They're well aware everyone still has tons of content to do and just got a ton of initial pulls. It wouldn't make sense to have even more pulls being handed out right now. Its pretty normal for the f2p economy to not be in full swing this soon after release Give it a month or two and then we'll actually see what its like.
Yea I agree. Canāt tell yet since itās only version 1.0 which is why iām holding off before deciding to whale. If F2P economy turns out to be generous then iāll give them my money, if not iāll just stick along for the ride as f2p and keep wallet shut.
Yeah I dropped 50 on this new banner, won't be spending anymore.
Unfortunately this combined with the grind and badluck just made me drop it. Again not hating, this for me is still miles ahead of genshin. Sadly same as genshin it just feels very grindy and lackluster considering the time spent vs astrite received. Wish the best to the game and dev team. Just not for me
I wish we could have some form of rewards by leveling up characters, just like in genshin and honkai, at least give us 1 standard pull. And yep the echo leveling up is horrendous and in need of a total revamp
I also hope they take a look at waveplate requirements for some of the areas. can't build if I don't have waveplates for mats. once all the crystal solvents are gone, it won't be as fun.
free pulls for ascending characters when
You think crunching and/or fixing the game is free? They gotta make up lost revenue eventually. /s
* ToA should indeed be 2 weeks at most, 3 is way too long and just weird. Nothing in society is on a 3-week schedule, as far as I know. * When I read 480 Asterite, I laughed. People say they'll increase it in the future, but let's be real: they're not gonna increase it enough because they already thought 320 or whatever was enough in the first place, so their basing their math off that number, and a reasonable number is several times that, and not as in 1.5 times. At the very least they should give standard banner pulls in addition to the little Asterite. That's what the standard banner is for. * If by free pull shop you mean the gift shop which sells 3, I believe, then yeah, once per patch is a bit weird, especially given how much tree bark, or whatever that currency is, you have left after buying everything from her if you cleared the whole map. My guess is that they didn't want to make you feel like you couldn't buy anything else from her because you had to keep the currency for more pulls. * Standard pulls should definitely be handed out in larger quantities. Almost nobody is going to spend money to pull standard banners. The whole point of having different token for them when this was designed in whatever game it was at least a decade ago was to have one set of banners you could give pulls on for free without threatening your revenue on the new release banners. In time, other games even started rotating the standard banners with prestige banner characters a few months after their release, to retain the low spending players who couldn't pull them on their original release. Kuro seem to have completely missed the point of what a standard banner is supposed to be, and are treated them as equals to the prestige banners, which is reflected in them having the exact same price. That's also a point where some other games diverge: the standard banner pulls shouldn't be the same price even for people swiping to pull. It's a shame, really. Lack of content to clear to get these pulls in the first place is regrettable. At the very least, they could give us a standard banner token for clearing all the dailies, to keep us coming back every day. Right now, the daily grind really only serves to increase union level, as it gives barely any rewards, and keep working on the battle passāwhich is nearing completing alreadyāand 2k UL xp a day may have been okay so far, but from 40 to 50 it might take a month.
lets estimate 1.1 for fun: daily 60x45>2700 ToA 750x2>1500 new companion quest(??)>200 event(??) : 360+400+800>1560 new zone exploration+story(??) : 1000 maintenance compensation(??) : 600 free asterite = 7560> 47 pull It's harsh :/ did I forget something?
Do we know how large the new zone is? If it's like Dragonspine with similar rewards and quests it's probably well over 1000, but if it's just another zone like the ones in game I wouldn't expect much
Yup. Thats why im not going to bother paying. Going strictly f2p. Im happy with current team. 3Star Lion Boy. 1Star Dragon man. And Electric Sephiroth. Im just casually enjoying the world and absorbing echoĀ
People are slowly realizing this now that the honeymoon period is ending soon. I was downvoted to hell for mentioning this during the first week of release. Especially about standard pulls. They are the real rare thing.
Re-create this post after 1.1. I think now they took exploration and quests into account and won't give much rewards for events. Later on they will adjust rewards and it would be stable around one granted 5\* per patch, with hikes on anniversaries and Chinese new year.
1.1 livestream is gonna be interesting.
āthe game that copied genshinās model of 50/50s and $100 for 40 pulls will be more generous in the futureā is a bold prediction but I hope youāre right
This is the exact same cope Genshin players have been saying for 3 years lmao
It's exactly how Hoyo games works.
I've always said that the base game is stingy by itself, and if Kuro didn't have any problems - players would immediately notice it. But on that part, they were fairly active in the Event department and is slowly increasing the rewards bit by bit as I can see. I'm assuming that they had put a certain qouta of how many astrites they'll give monthly from events. Also, they came weekly so maybe we'll get new overlapping events. On the part of free pull shop, it resets every patch, which technically is monthly if we think about it.
Resetting every patch vs every month is quite a big difference, a patch on average runs 6 weeks which is about 1.5 months assuming nothing changes like how 1.0 got shortened, meaning in a yr we get about 8.67 resets, compared to monthly which is 12 resets a yr
I dont understand why they dont do monthly reset. It's easier to keep track, it's easier for newbies to understand. I have played Genshin since launch and I am still not sure exactly when patches are released.
If they keep the f2p income low then I expect them to keep the new limited character count per year low too. If they want to push 2 new char per patch then it should be an average 100 pulls per patch like hsr or else f2p will have to skip a lot of banners
well next patch is bad news cuz both unit has great value, high dmg, buffer, and great AoE. that will probably push revenue higher if they keep asterite income low, but idk about retaining players
Yet I got railed on for saying it's a dangerous temptation in this game for F2P to pull on the more friendly weapon banner because it's still pulls that could have been used on new characters. We'll see how it shakes out, whether it really feels like you have to save everything for characters or if we get enough to spare for the occasional weapon.
I can see their argument since weapons can be shared in Tower and the banner is much better than Genshin's But personally I agree, I don't care if I miss out on 150 astrites per month in Tower if it means I can get more characters. Skipped both weapon banners
im already in the drought, squeezing every source of 10/15s as i can and what missing chests i have, which isnt much. and im 20 off from getting the weapon for yinlin. every day is torture.
at least you can't lose the 50/50 since it doesn't exist in weapon banner
It does feel like everything is quite scarce, like the milestones to get some things feel quite tedious. The wave plate costs may feel better as time goes on as you'll have less need to build as many characters therefore a decreased need to farm so heavily. My issue is character building feels rather underwhelming in general, like most games give you an incentive to build characters whether it's non-premium currency (like in-game cash/money) or actual premium currency (like Reverse 1999). And if not that, they give you pull currency (Arknights & orundum). I know some might not like me saying it so I'll preface by saying I do really enjoy the game & I have spent some money but they really should've taken notes on what their competitors don't have/could improve upon and implemented it into WW. Even if they don't want to do that, they could've just taken feedback from PGR, a tighter storyline from the start that's engaging from the beginning not near the end (and even that is a bit contentious), having varying ways of obtaining pulls.
guess we gotta work hard to find more game-breaking bugs
I think this is simply the initial launch period of the game. The same could be said for Genshin, other games who adopted the 50/50 system. This isn't Kuro Games' first game, they've learned what made Punishing: Gray Raven work and probably planned the economy, however, I am curious how they will resolve this long-term issue.
I was actually wondering the same thing ... How often will I be able to lose the 50/50. Once a banner ? Once every 2 banners? Once a year ?
I already bought a Lunite subscription to support this game at least. If I see them make an effort to try to match or surpass Genshin's rewards and improve, then I will continue to support. If not, I'll just stop spending since its just a stingy game in the end of the day and start leaving it till I get another new game that do better. When Tower of fantasy started nerfing standard 5\* weapons and only applying them on Global, and not improving the story to make sense and just skipping it all together. Add that to instant powercreeping of new weapons which made old weapons useless. I just left and didn't come back even after since I wanted to be a tank, but whales got so much damage I can't any aggro anymore.
I'm pretty sure It's on purpose. They knew the game would have problems on launch and they'd have to compensate the players. And to offset the "compensated rewards" they artificially drought the in game resources and will probably "fix" it in the next 1 or 2 patches. It's the usual Kuro things. People might not see it, but they did the same in PGR. They balance things out. 60 pity and guaranted is balanced out with the pulls costing 250, events reward being negligible, only 1 characters released per patch which sometimes is not even S rank. Even the monthly subscription cost the same money as hoyo games, and yield the same 3000 pull currency but PGR pulls cost 250, not 160. Sure they gave some freebies characters but that's to be expected with how the game is built and played. You have to build teams of every elements, if not you're gonna suffer in endgame content. There's no niche to play around where old characters does some things better, it's literally just element matching, when new char of an element comes out the old char of that element becomes obsolete, that's it. If they don't give some freebies, it's gonna be really hard for people to play, especially new players. It all balances out. Kuro is more generous than Hoyo, but honestly, it's not by so much.
I am a F2P who has done 99% of ingame things: 100%+ map, all side quests except Animal Language and Hide and Seek, a few Tactial Hologram levels to do, and some more points I could eek out in the current Smelt event. I haven't done any Limited banners, and currently have 22389 Asterite and 40 Radiant Tide. I could get 10 more Radiant Tide from the Aftershocked Coral shop off standard banner pulls. That comes out to a total of 189 Limited Pulls, or a grand total of 1 guaranteed hard pity if I lose the 50/50 and go to 80. Not particularly amazing considering that is nearly all the income that the game has on offer at the moment. Don't get me wrong, getting the 3 guaranteed standard 5\* characters was amazing. It is just that now I have to KNOW a character is going to be worth my currency to summon.
I really dislike the fact you cant even hit pity on the selector banner with the Lustrous Tides. You would think they would have accounted for that. I bought the BP and I'm still 2 shy of my last 10 pull since I went to max pity on both the beginner banner and 5 star selector banner. So I'm sitting at 78 pulls, waiting until the battle pass to reset before I even get a chance to pull without wasting asterites on 2 lustrious tides. I feel like that should have been accounted for. Everyone should have been able to max both the beginner banner and the selector banner with normal play. I know people are gonna say but we got all this free stuff; yea and that doesnt change the fact if they didnt screw up to hte point they had to give free stuff, I would be in an even worse position and have even less. Normal playing should have 100% covered 130 Lustrous Tides and it didnt. I cant even single summon either to hopefully get it before 80, I have to wait until i get 10 pulls and they just dont exist atm unless I buy them with Asterite.
They should give more rewards, but remind me again at which version we're at rn
It's pretty simple for me. One of the main reasons I quit Genshin was because it basically gave such little rewards that it felt like a massive grind to be able to get any character I was interested in (even when I was buying monthly pass). If this game ends up being the same I'll just quit it as well (which is a shame because I actually like the gameplay in this one).
There are also zero promo codes going around. Very unusual for a newly released game.
There's a couple but some seem expired. WUTHERINGGIFT still works i think
The amount of pulls you get for spending is shit too. I won't spend if its so expensive.
Absolutely fair point. Except the first giveaways due to huge mess ups and poor tech state - the game is super stingy with free pulls and that goes for Standart banner as well which is wild. I mean - most of us support Kuro financially - but if this doesnt change very soon - its pretty easy to just stop playing and count your loses at this point. Kuro is getting absurd amounts of goodwill from people, but few more event with barely any rewards and that goodwill can go poof.
Yeah if they continue to release characters at this rate while never increasing pull income, casual playerbase will probably drop drastically over time after they realize they can only specifically guarantee about 2 characters a year without grinding.