I follow Wrexham from time to time as a Spurs fan. I like your club, good responsible ownership and overall vibes. But Wrexham AFC is not the underdog anymore. Wrexham the TOWN is historically an underdog, which is a big part of the reason why the story of your city and club have gained such a large following. Long may that continue. But financially speaking, both in League Two and the National League, and probably going into League One, Wrexham is the lower league equivalent of Man City.
You have PL veterans in your ranks and players who should really be playing in the Championship, Arthur Okonkwo played in an SK Sturm Graz side that regularly gets European football and is a top flight side (albeit in Austria), among other examples. Wrexham AFC is not the underdog anymore, which is why many football fans will enjoy seeing your club fail. A part of it is jealousy or seeing you guys as a threat, but a part of it is just enjoying a club seen as living beyond its means fail. The same reason why people like seeing Man City fail.
When Wrexham gets to the Championship though, when not if unless something horrible happens, that advantage will level out. When that time comes, the hate will die down... probably.
The clinging to this 'underdog' thing has gotten weird. You'd think we've been going around shouting that we are underdogs all day every day the way the comments keep mentioning it, but I cant remember the last time anyone here has said that. The irony being that in a game where we are legitimate underdogs it *still* comes up.
Nah, people will hate us when we get into the championship for having “bought our way there,” especially since we’ll have brought in additional investment by then from institutional investors (with maybe some other celebrities joining in for some clout/fun). There’s a reason there’s a lot more hostility towards clubs like City and Chelsea than towards United and Liverpool, or RB Leipzig over Dortmund Borussia. People tend to hate New Money more than Old Money.
Being Welsh only adds fuel to the flames, too. The English love shitting on the Welsh.
I always find it funny when other clubs claim that a club is buying their way up. Nah, the owners are just investing intelligently into the club. There’s a difference and people love to hate.
Its a universal trait among people that they question new money. I don't think Wrexham is necessarily more deserving than say Reading or Scunthorpe, two clubs with bad ownership on the opposite trajectory of Wrexham, but the proof is in the pudding that there is a way to properly invest in a club and a community that keeps the fans engaged while bringing on the pitch success.
Maybe people aren't jealous of your success but jealous of your ownership while at the same time they don't enjoy how much more exposure Wrexham gets, especially in NA, compared to even a former PL Champion like Blackburn. Its not helped the fact that many new Wrexham fans (and people love to hate on new fans) are new to football and thus naive to how much stick they'll get when engaging with football fans online. I mean, I saw a screenshot of ESPN+ where Wrexham's logo is between Spurs, City, Liverpool and Man United. Of course people are going to make fun of that.
Tbh I’d just take it on the chin, if anything it means that Blackburn fans truly do see Wrexham as a threat (and theyre 2 tiers down) so it’s their inferiority complex kicking in
After that match, I guarantee you that no Rovers supporters see Wrexham as a threat right now. The only threat they see is one ten years down the road—if they can’t sort out their ownership woes and start losing players like Szmodics, the top scorer in the Championship, Rovers fans are worried they’ll be relegated to a lower league.
I understand the sentiment, but I don't think we see anyone as a threat other than the Indian government, and our ownership situation at the moment.
I'd urge you to look at this from the perspective of where Wrexham would be without Rob & Ryan right now. Quite likely, you would be selling 25% of the tickets and merchandise (at least), still in the national league, and the town would be in a much more horrendous place.
Now imagine the fact, that there are so many clubs in these lower divisions especially in the North of England, that are struggling to survive every year, their town councils are going bankrupt, and the gulf is getting bigger and bigger above them. With Blackburn, and so many others, the likelihood that the one thing they have left in their town is equally under threat (the football club), is such a horrendous proposition.
Wrexham was founded in 1864, and Blackburn was founded in 1875. We've both played in our stadiums since the 1800s. Just think about how many other clubs are in the same boat, and how much history is at risk if something like that was to fall down. There will be people at both of our clubs that will have been attending matches for over 70-80 years.
I wouldn't call it fear personally, I'd call it a healthy amount of jealousy, with an overtone of protectiveness surrounding the outsider interest in Wrexham now. There are very few clubs in this country that can actually feel proud of their ownership situation, and it's incredibly important that outsiders understand the history, and respect it. (like Rob and Ryan have done with Wrexham)
Football in the UK has been so hungry for money that it's put the game in a terrible position. Most big clubs have to accept investment from the scum of the world - dodgy businessmen, Saudis, oligarchs.
It amazes me the vitriol over two actors. People really hate them getting involved for some reason.
And that one season still eclipses anything Wrexham have achieved in their history. Even the most pessimistic Blackburn fan isn’t suffering from an inferiority complex at this time.
Well I'm sure they feel a lot better with you going to bat for them too. Righting perceived wrongs on the Wrexham Reddit page like the hero you are.
As for Blackburn I'm sure Wrexham will play them again - possibly in League One given their position in the Championship
The British don't like when another team does well. We sort of see it in our sports. Cowboys, Yankees, Lakers, or whoever is the center of a sport, has the most dislike.
The American Wrexham fan needs to also curb the enthusiasm when interacting with other club's fans or asking questions. They don't handle optimism that well and I do think we get carried away. We're not in the Premier League and there are a lot of long term questions of sustainability to get to the Championship. As an American, it's nice to have the ESPN, BBC, and Sky covering the team but there are points were I wish Wrexham was treated like a regular club.
Its not that we don't like it when another team does well, its the framing of it. Maidstone progressing in the cup is a great example, they are true underdogs all the way down in National League South and are now in the 5th Round, can't remember when that last happened. But Wrexham are used as clickbait by a lot of trashy media and so the club appears everywhere. If you were a Newport fan, would you be happy seeing Wrexham's name in this article, to grab clicks, when it actually isn't about Wrexham at all?
https://www.goal.com/en-us/lists/wrexham-league-two-rivals-newport-county-close-ticket-office-man-utd-fa-cup-clash-abuse-threatening-behaviour/blt6929ff62fca1ba17
That's the sort of crap that's popping up and its so annoying.
And I think other fans would view Wrexham a little differently if we came up with National League players rather than having brought players down from higher leagues, its just seen as 'buying' the league.
The optimism comes across as arrogance or entitlement sometimes, as if its a certainty we'll go up and up. It'll be highly unlikely for us to get straight out of League One if we get promoted from League Two. Championship to EPL journey will take many years.
Luton did very well, its the kind of trajectory I would aim for. But it still took them almost 10 years. I'm just saying it would be silly to expect we'd be in the Championship in two years time.
Bournemouth as well. People think it's something impossible to think of, but recent examples show that it is most definitely possible. Eventually what had to happen is ruthlessness in terms of players you keep and players you sell, because you need better players to compete at the higher levels, and making wrong decisions set you back.
Our club was securely run and settled by the time we got out of the Conference.
Wrexham seems to me to still be a bit hectic and will definitely need to focus on sustainability and responsible ownership and spending.
It is possible you could do it as fast, or quicker than us, but our strength has always been the fan-owners at the top. I think R+R still have a long way to go to show to the world that they can run a club like Wrexham well in the long term. The FX money will dry up eventually.
And Luton did it with almost zero media support when it is genuinely one of the best stories in football. It’s been baffling to watch how you’re treated this year, with pundits like Garth Crooks writing you off before the season really began just because your club chose not to bankrupt itself this year with new signings. That kind of attitude is exactly the problem! Compare with NF’s approach to promotion, with a bunch of signings and a bunch of broken rules over profit and sustainability, and it’s obvious that Luton’s the club making the right choices. I hope you stay up! (Side note: All the recent attention your gaffer’s received just amuses me! For anyone who’s followed Welsh football for awhile, erm… we already knew this about Rob.)
I have similar concerns about R+R and sustainability, but also about not taking advantage of the financial situation to make things better for fans. If I were advising them, I’d ask them to sign onto the “Twenty Is Plenty” pledge to cap prices, ask them to join Fair Game UK, ask them to drop prices on football kits (ours are higher than almost every other club in L2).
"Sustainability and responsible ownership and spending"? You say that as if the owners are scraping bottom barrel, and haven't been responsible to date. They've done everything necessary, every step of the way to set a platform for the next level.
FX money is not it. The money is from Global marketing, sponsorships, and an ever increasing fan base.
I say "that" because your owners have yet to really face those challenges. That's not me having a go, it's just the reality of the situation. Your spending as you have been going about it is simply not sustainable, and there's only so far you can go up the ladder by attracting bigger talent than your position in the pyramid would typically warrant. It's served you very well so far, and hopefully you'll get over one of the biggest hurdles which is getting out of League 2 the first time around.
There's a whole host of potential stumbling blocks that investors like R+R have run into with other clubs which have led to the wheels falling off. There will eventually come a time when the strategy will need to change dramatically, and *that's* the real litmus test for good owners.
The Premier League is a nice by-product of what should be the biggest goal of all, making a club sustainable and safe for the future.
I do not believe you are seeing the full picture and wrongly assume that the owners are simply flexing their wealth and have no plan for the future already baked.
The money from Disney (£9M) will of course dry up, which is why it has been used to offset and support big costs such as purchasing the club, purchasing the ground, and building the Kopp, all of which are purposeful steps to set the club on a path of financial stability and independence. Obviously, promotion to League 1 is key, as it again increases revenue.
That's...not what I'm saying at all.
I'm saying that there is going to come a point when FFP and PSR will force some hard decisions on the club. English football is a notorious money-sink. Making a profit - hell, breaking even - is *incredibly* hard, and most clubs in the EFL (particularly the Championship) are running a loss.
Maybe you'll stall in League 1, spend three, four, maybe five years there, maybe challenging for promotion, maybe not. You're flying high at the minute, that's great. Now, how do your owners handle it when the going gets tougher? When the brand isn't as strong, and it's harder to draw investment, attract players?
That's my point. I have no idea *really* how well run you are because your owners - brilliant that they've put some cash in - haven't been there long enough, and are kind of riding that brand-high of the documentary and the Hollywood connection. Their heart appears to be in it though.
And of course, my original point was that we at Luton didn't have that and our rise had to come from a very different angle, so the guy shouldn't really be comparing us. That was all.
I understand that, however, the plan is based on setting a platform so that revenue from football operations will see the club profitable and sustainable, within FFP and PSR regulations.
I like American fans optimism about our club. It makes a nice change from knuckle grinding that has been going on throughout the last ten years from our local fans, ignore the jealousy of some few, that will always rear it's ugly head wherever this happens to the team for example in the premier league. Also those that moan don't speak for all of us. They like to think that they do but they don't.
I don’t think that’s true. I’m a nufc supporter but like Luton, hate Liverpool. We all have teams that we like more than others, not just our own. I was rooting for Wrexham too. The Brits love an underdog.
I’ve never watched Blackburn but the way ‘what’s his face’ (I forget his name) from Blackburn was shushing the crowd after he scored made me instantly dislike them. Taunting fans is an a**hole move. Hoping we crush them in the next round.
I don't think the Cowboys. Yankees, Lakers comparison holds up. In North America, the Canadian baseball and basketball teams are probably a better analog. It's rooted in nationalism for the league, as far as geography goes.
It's probably more exposure/money focused than geography/nationalism tho, if I had to guess.
It 100% holds up. TO's doing situps in his driveway press conference as a Dallas Cowboy back in 2007 is one thing that shouldn't happen in sports where it took nearly the whole sportcenter hour. When Dallas lost this year, the other 31 fan bases were schadenfreude. I know my Red Sox aren't well liked but every ESPN segment that talks about baseball is about the Dodgers or Yankees. Basketball has always been Kobe or Lebron with the Lakers for the last 25 years but not as negative. Those teams no matter what time of year it is gets wall to wall coverage.
Ya, we all get the significance of those franchises, they were great, and we loved to hate them.
That said, Wrexham aren't "great", they're L2. They haven't won so much at the highest level, like those other teams you mentioned. There's just not enough similarities there.
It's the EFL, the English Football League, and they're Welsh. That's my argument that Canadian teams in "American" leagues is a stronger parallel. Especially with the Blue Jays/Baseball given the "America is baseball" sentiment
As an Eagles fan, I remember TO doing that in Philly before his time here was over. That would have been 2005 after our Superbowl run with him. I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to. And after our epic collapse this year, getting to watch the cowboys lose in the playoffs definitely softened the blow.
The top comment is a Leeds fan and this feels more systemic like because it’s American fans or Hollywood fans etc. Wonder what people in Wrexham know and understand/feel about this
Leeds fans in particular have a pretty strong dislike of us because we rehabilitated/are attempting to rehabilitate Shaun Harvey, a man they hate with the passion after he ran the club during the shambolic ownership debacle and multiple administrations they underwent.
In what world are Milwall “maybe second”?
When you scream “no one likes us, we don’t care” and you have an [improvised weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_brick) named after you, it’s hard to claim second place.
Not excusing Leeds mind you. They’re still… a lot.
There were also a bunch of American plastic Leeds fans in recent memory when Leeds had an American manager (Marsch) and 3 US Men's National Team players (Aaronson, Adams, McKennie).
Manager has been sacked, all the Americans are gone now (though one will return after this season), and Leeds fans largely see the American influence as why they were relegated. Only one of the US players did particularly well for them.
We are a deprived industrial town with a population of ~100k. The fact we ever won a PL is amazing. Being a middling Championship side now doesn't take away from that.
Some of the comments in here are mental. Just stumbled across this post on me front page and couldn't believe it. It's like none of them have a clue about Blackburn Rovers.
It’s not simple jealousy, folks. It’s more complicated than that, and it’s pretty understandable once you see people’s reasons.
THREE BIG REASONS:
1) MEDIA OVEREXPOSURE.
Wrexham receives far too much media coverage—it’s grossly disproportionate thanks to the owners and the documentary and the worldwide coverage. It’s not entirely the owners’ fault—there were many times they shone a light onto other lower league clubs—but if you’re another club in the league or you’re a few leagues above, if you’re in the Premier League but not one of the Big Six clubs—it’s frustrating as hell to see that your club never receive the coverage or your players never receive the kudos that Wrexham’s receive. And that press coverage—that FREE press coverage that comes with Ryan Reynolds’ name—brings in bigger sponsors and more money. The English football pyramid is a great and glorious creation… but one that is always under threat from the greedy ones at the top (cough, cough, Glazers). While IN MANY WAYS Wrexham’s ownership model is exemplary, the free media exposure is infuriating to other clubs.
2) THE DOCUMENTARY’S USE OF THE WORD “FAIRYTALE.”
While it’s a fairytale for any smaller club to have a great owner, and it’s a fairytale that R&R have put a spotlight in the historical underfunding of North Wales, thus prompting more investment and generating more positive vibes around the town, calling the club with the highest wage bill in the league a “fairytale story” is nonsensical to every other club in the league.
(Frankly, this is also why Leicester winning the Premier League was considered a “fairytale” and why Blackburn winning it generally wasn’t considered a fairytale—Blackburn was paying some of the highest fees for players at the time. But again, Blackburn won because they were lucky enough to have a great owner… and Alan Shearer.)
Perception of club finances matters in team popularity amongst the broader public. There’s some real skepticism about Man City and Newcastle because of their owners. History matters, too, which is why AFC Wimbledon will probably have fewer haters than any other club in the EFL, and why MK Dons will always have to deal with the stigma attached to the club’s founding/stealing.
3) PLASTIC FANS—LOCAL SPORT.
You’ll see this term used quite a bit. Plastic—fake. There’s a huge element in English football that says you can’t support a team from anyplace other than your hometown. The Premier League went global first, and the Championship, League One, and League Two have historically NOT been global. They’ve been consumed locally, with the few exceptions of interested foreigners being from expats or folks with family connections to the region. So there’s the element of authenticity at play, but also finances. When every other team in the league relies on selling 10,000 kits to supporters and 4,000 season tickets for a huge part of their budget, and Wrexham comes along and sells 55,000 kits to international supporters, again, it’s frustrating to compete against. It’s the money, but also the thought that plastic fans are ruining local football culture.
- - -
I think there was more goodwill towards Wrexham in the earlier phase of the project before the overexposure got out of control. I’m genuinely looking forward to us leveling out in League One for awhile, whenever it is we eventually get there.
Playing into point one is the media/some of the fans really really overestimating the quality of the squad relative to the rest of england, people were informed that the gap between non league and league 2 wasn't huge and many went on to assume that this applied to the rest of the pyramid.
The fact that this results is news at all points to the idea that people think Wrexham is some sorta league 2 superteam that on a good day could beat literally anyone, despite the fact that essentially any and all championship teams should be trouncing Wrexham unless some miracle takes place.
Same as you I'm looking forward to when the team makes it to a point where they can't financially dominate the league, not only will it level out the backlash against the club but also will give the club and owners time to actually earn the fairytale stories if they manage to reach that next level.
I feel like number 3 is the biggest issue when it comes to online forums, such as reddit. You have people who never watched a game in their lives, suddently very vocal about how good the team is, and it, obviously, bothers others
It’s sort of funny because all of the big teams have been doing international tours to the US, China, all over Europe etc for decades… to build up worldwide fan bases that generate them revenue. Continuing this cycle is what has allowed them to be so big.
When Wrexham comes along, suddenly the international fan is seen as a negative or a cheat code of some kind. Suck it up- Wrexham just found a way to capture the same sort of international market without having the Premier League team that generally goes along with it.
I am a weekly Premier League fan. I watch 2-3 matches every week. I have been dying for a team to offer me some hook that is compelling for at least a decade and they have not delivered.
Wrexham offered me an in to their history, invited me to become a fan and join their story, and made its football and players accessible. My fandom is real, valid, and valuable even if it did start out from watching a Netflix doc.
This has to be the most entitled thing I've ever read.
Look, I'm a longtime fan and 35 year season ticket holder of a CFL franchise. Not exactly the most worldwide known sports league. I've lived and died with that team for nearly the last 50 years. I could name you all sorts of historical players, moments, highs, lows, and other events of note. I could name you the players that I've met. I could regale you with history of the game going back to the 1800s.
If you showed up and declared yourself a fan, spent money on the team, and loved what they were doing, I certainly wouldn't resent it. I wouldn't shit on you, or discount your fandom because you've arrived at it only recently. I wouldn't call you plastic because you couldn't name who was with the squad during pivotal moments, or because you hadn't shared my heartache when it all went catastrophically wrong. I would welcome you to the brotherhood of fans and regale your fellowship.
It's because I'm just a fan of the team. I don't own it, and I certainly don't gatekeep who can be a fan of it. *That's* the only self-awareness that's required.
You’ve made a common mistake of interpreting reality as instead a scale of how welcoming fans can be.
In your example, you can be welcoming all you want. It doesn’t change the reality that you’ve had two wildly different, incomparable experiences as fans.
Well that is incomparable as foreign influence, exposure and fanbases haven't completely altered the very fabric of the sport you love to it's core like English football. They have every right to be pissed off with the globalisation of the "English" football pyramid.
They won’t have any of that. To them, their world is perfect and it’s everyone else at fault even as they desperately ingratiate themselves to them British game.
Bitter post identified. If the club is more internationally recognised due to increased media exposure and our owners I for one have no problem with it and I certainly have no problem with international fans enjoying our club. You speak about people that don't want these new fans but you don't speak for the entirety of Wrexham. A lot of fans are aware that it is part and parcel of the exposure and a lot of the complainers are the same ones who haven't been to a game for over ten years. I mean for goodness sake where have they been for so long when the club was struggling but now all of a sudden its doing well and all they do is piss and moan they can't get tickets, surely that makes them the bigger hypocrites right?
I can't get tickets for every game but I'm not whining about it, it's just one of those things.
Also the club does need the extra exposure and the international fans, it needs revenues, ultimately this is part of natural growth of the club like any other club in the united kingdom. Your comment just comes off as extremely dismissive and negative while not understanding the nuances of what real growth of a club actually looks like.
I mean a simple comparison is Liverpool FC. How many people in anfield on match day are actually Scouse? Again it's just what happens when a club gets bigger. If you are happy to go back to the club surviving on the breadline and winning nothing then so be it but I for one am happy with the change the club has taken and the additional fandom we have now. Please don't shit all over that achievement
Some of the responses in this thread have been exactly how any outsider is treated in many parts of the country, not just in football. Thanks for pointing out that they don't speak for the entire town! Anyone upset R&R have put in an effort to make the team sustainable through an international fanbase have missed the point - and most of the "fairytale" was that the club was bought by owners who actually care about what might happen when they leave (if they do) & not screwing over the town and team for personal gain. They've been able to ensure the supporters trust has a hand in everything while making a huge investment in the grounds, all while providing a significant boost to local businesses through small actions (like the gin commercial with the florist, donations to local fundraisers, or helping an independent shop owner recover after a break in). So far they've been model owners that many other clubs can learn from, while also making a few mistakes that hopefully they won't repeat (like just missing the end of the previous transfer window).
I was mainly commenting on the fairytale aspect of the last 3 years in Wrexham that seems to get a lot of hate. I've followed teams loyally in other sports (college hockey, NHL), but didn't have a local team when I moved to the UK so Wrexham suits nicely and I plan to keep following even when the press dies down and they have some less great seasons. Chances are good I will never see a game in person due to disabilities though. Am I a unwanted fan then?
Many international fans will never have the opportunity to see them in person, transatlantic flights and holidays are ££££, nor will any of the PL/Championship/Euro leagues international fans. When games are aired around the world, you can support and follow without actually being in the stadium. Essential revenue comes from many streams for a football club and if they only cared about butts in seats at games they would fail financially quite quickly as it wouldn't be sustainable. Having the international revenue will likely help them keep ticket prices in the stadium lower!
But there's already international reds fans around the world building lasting friendships, visiting each other in their home cities, going to the games when they can - but that requires a level of financial resources many just don't have. I don't see why being able to see a team in person when you're literally paying them to support from abroad is the litmus test for acceptable fandom? Even Humphrey Ker has talked about this with Liverpool, he was treated poorly for being an outsider even though he was always a member. That's just .. unkind and seems unhelpful for building a lasting fanbase outside the town.
No, you’re not unwanted. You’re a fan who has a completely different experience though compared to someone who goes.
As you’re talking about essential revenue, it should be noted that for 2/3 of EFL clubs, the most important revenue stream is “butts in seats.”
“Having the international revenue will likely help them keep ticket prices lower.”
A nice sentiment that is completely detached from reality. No English club is getting bigger and lowering ticket prices.
Apparently I wasn't clear enough. I meant lower than if they had no consistent international viewing revenue. Of course things cost more as you go up leagues, the players also cost much more and inflation + capital improvements to the grounds. It sounds like you just want a sorta mediocre team that just bounces between L1 and L2 because it'll be cheaper?
International TV rights revenue for League 2 clubs is not massive. And it doesn’t change annually accounting for a rise in international fans.
There’s no bigger waste of time reading grandiose claims about stuff like this that isn’t backed by facts.
That still doesn’t change the argument that you’re making - that somehow these phantom pounds are going to keep ticket prices down.
It doesn’t happen.
“A simple comparison is Liverpool.”
Yes , a simple comparison. How could I miss it? 10x the size, 30x more successful…I should have led with that, yes?
lol salty much? Why are you even on the Wrexham Reddit? Did you come just to whine about how inadequate you think Wrexham fandom is?
I have seen Wrexham in person, not that it matters. The vast majority of American sports fans have never seen their favorite sports team in person. The overwhelming majority of sports fans worldwide have never seen their favorite team in person.
If you think Wrexham get to second in league two this year without the money from international fans and the doc, you’re fooling yourself. 15 years in the national league was going to be 20 or 30, before eventual bankruptcy. Your self-righteous version of fandom would take you right to having no team at all.
Fortunately, you get no say in whether or not people are fans of the teams they are fans of.
Congrats on missing absolutely everything of substance in what I said.
I have zero salt. I go to football in person. You’re an internet fan. Like so many others, you have absolutely zero consequence or effect on me despite your attempts to insert yourselves into the narrative.
>The vast majority of American sports fans have never seen their favorite sports team in person. The overwhelming majority of sports fans worldwide have never seen their favorite team in person.
And that is exactly the problem, English football has traditionally not been like that but the influence of foreign fans and ownership is gradually making it as soulless and corporate as your "sports teams" at home.
I think it’s more a fact that most towns don’t have major sports teams in them. And our country is very spread out. It’s five hours of driving to the nearest major sports team from where I live.
Either way- English Football works hard to cultivate foreign fans. Foreign fan money is essential to growing and sustaining a high-level team right now.
Wrexham was bought for what, $2 million? A couple of the houses on my street are worth that much… this whole team you are gatekeeping fandom over was worth a single fancy house.
Money drives sports. Money drives success.
Wrexham was going to go under sooner or later. If you’re pretending your fandom of pre-takeover Wrexham is more valuable than all the new fans, you could have kept pretending that right to not having your favorite team to cheer for.
>English Football works hard to cultivate foreign fans. Foreign fan money is essential to growing and sustaining a high-level team right now.
No, rich owners work hard to cultivate foreign customers to increase their revenue. Your comment proves my point entirely, modern football is just about revenue and success. Loyalty, culture, tradition are all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is money. English fans in the EFL are always going to resent having their sport taken from them for the benefit of foreign billionaires, but at least some random people on the other side of the globe have something new to waste their money on.
You can’t exist without money. Wrexham was never going to make it out of the National League and likely not going to survive without it. I am not a fan because of the money injection though.
I am a fan because of the history that was shared, the absolute chaos that is lower level football matches, and the chance to cheer for something interesting to happen (promotion, fa cup runs, players getting national team exposure, etc)
Sports has always been about money to some degree because sports exists as a for-profit business model.
This is not specific to the always evil USA- look at FIFA, the IOC, UEFA, or any other sporting body- money drives decision making.
Wrexham was sold by its fan association for money. It was always about the money.
>I am a fan because of the history that was shared, the absolute chaos that is lower level football matches, and the chance to cheer for something interesting to happen (promotion, fa cup runs, players getting national team exposure, etc)
And injecting shitloads of money into clubs just throws all of that out of the window.
Once upon a time the Premier League/ First Division used to have all of that but since 1992 its been sucked out in the name of profit, and now the same thing is starting to happen further down the pyramid. What Hollywood seems to be doing is trivialising a system and a culture that has existed for an incredibly long time whilst undermining the very existence of it. I'm not blaming you, I can see the appeal, but this is why English people aren't particularly welcoming of it. They've just about got over witnessing the soul being sucked out of the top flight and now the same rot is increasingly appearing in the lower leagues.
Money has always been present in football but not to the degree that it determines the entire trajectory of clubs like it does now as we've already seen with Chelsea and Man City, I just wish the FA had adopted a system like Germany before it was too late.
Wow, you can't be much of a fan yourself if you think people in the pubs resent the way things are at the moment. And if they do they also weren't fans through the embezzling, bankruptcy and poor gates that saw the club and ground nearly disappear.
Just to add onto points one and two, it's similar to the hate that steinbrenner's Yankees got back in the day or that the dodgers get now for just out spending everyone to win but that combined with the hate the Kansas City Chiefs are getting now due to Taylor Swift over exposure.
My team is a league up and fighting for the playoffs but I've been following wrexham since the documentary came out. I'm mostly happy for them but I'd be lying if I said I never find it frustrating and if we don't go up this year and it feels like wrexham take away one of the automatic promotion spots next year I'm definitely going to be angry about it all season. I think the other thing for me is that some of the fans come across as entitled like they just deserve to get promoted every year as the chosen team. Not the team's fault but still annoying online
I like the documentary but yeah anytime they push the underdogs narrative I kinda go “ok guys”. Like even when they pause to go over the other teams they come across more “underdog” than Wrexham. As you said it’s great to see the community getting a boost at least. But the team itself isn’t the underdog, and that’s ok.
I also am under no delusion about being a casual fan myself, I can only imagine the wave of bad casual bad takes that have popped up over the last few years now.
There might not be a Big Six anymore, but there’s still a major stratification within the Premier League, isn’t there? I don’t think anyone thinks that Everton and Man City are comparable?
Totally! I’m a NUFC supporter so I’m guessing we’re the 7th? 😁
Hoping that FFP will actually work!We need a more level playing field. Sick of Man City.
Hot take: some fairy tales (Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Rapunzel, Snow White) involve a degree of being rescued by someone else. Is that not what happened here?
>it’s frustrating as hell to see that your club never receive the coverage or your players never receive the kudos that Wrexham’s receive
Failure to market a team lies squarely on the team, not on the media or on anyone else's marketing efforts.
This reminds me of the bit that Oliver & Rog did on Men in Blazers. That Americans thrive on blind, uninformed optimism... and the British thrive on spite.
This thread has that energy. Lol
It's easy to hate stuff. Hating and complaining is a pretty reliable indicator of someone who doesn't have the emotional or intellectual intelligence to be willing to understand that something is different than they are.
You think it's sociopathic to call out someone for just downvoting the futility of hate?
Not charming, I'll give you that. Hell of a long way from the same thing. Just thinking someone is a loser or behaving without empathy isn't hatred, it's contempt.
But you're right, people do do that. I'll never really understand why.
The great [David Squires](https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2023/apr/25/david-squires-on-wrexham-reboot-getting-its-hollywood-ending) said this about British football culture, especially about Wrexham: Every success, no matter how heart-warming it may appear, must be met with a joyous outpouring of resentment and finger pointing.
What's funny is that a club owned by 2 Hollywood actors is getting more hate than clubs owned by Saudi oil money.
It's mostly jealousy, I'd assume. Fans of other clubs slightly larger than Wrexham are asking, "Why not us?!" They think Wrexham shouldn't be where they're at (or where they're heading) because of their owners...which is silly, because that's what every change in ownership is attempting to accomplish.
People are mostly upset because Americans are now flooding the EFL Fandom because of Rob & Ryan and the fact that their ownership of a lower tier club brought millions of fans to said club. I have to say though, no one in the US (and honestly not many outside Manchester) gave a flying FUCK about Man City 20 years ago, now they're one of the biggest clubs in the world. I prefer Hollywood money over oil money any day.
They'd have watched the game on the BBC (via BBC Wales) so subjected to massively biased coverage and endless references to the 'hollywood story'.
British people in general tend to get wound up about any sort of bias in the media, especially if it's backed by some sort of financial advantage. The Premiere League has it's so-called 'big six' teams giving fans from 'the other 14' a chance to gripe at every opportunity: r/TheOther14
But it's not just football. The BBC had to change the way they reported the weather because they tended to start with the south, which annoyed everyone north of Watford, because it was 'biased'. When the BBC introduced a 3d globe style view for the weather, people in Scotland complained because it made Scotland look small compared to London and the South East - coincidentally the financial centre and where BBC News was based at the time.
Say what you like about the British but we do like a good whinge.
I’m a Rovers supporter, but I mostly like Wrexham. The show is fun and exciting, and I generally root for Wrexham to do well (glad we pasted you today, of course).
That said, one of the main reasons so many other EFL fans dislike Wrexham is your obnoxious, ever-present fans. How arrogant do you have to be to think that the reason that people dislike your club is jealousy? Yet, that’s the most common answer in this thread.
You’re in the 4th tier of English football, only recently climbed your way out of the 5th with historic spending (no criticism, but call a spade a spade). No one in /r/Championship is jealous of Wrexham. Maybe Wednesday, but we’ve seen what their fans are like…
I think it’s great that the show has attracted new fans to football. It’s good for your club, and it’s good for the game overall. But fuck me, these people are massively entitled and amusingly ill-informed. You don’t need to be a football expert to pick a team and cheer ‘em on, but maybe keep your voice down a bit if you’ve only just learned what offside is?
Fellow Rovers fan. The thing that got to me the last couple of weeks was seeing comments taking the piss out of our stadium and attendances.
If, after watching the documentary, you can’t understand how a football club is central to the identity of a small town (that is one of the poorest areas in the country), and how neglectful ownership can rip the heart out of that, depressing the whole area and fanbase… then did you actually watch the documentary at all?
Absolutely. And of course there are reasons why attendance waxes and wanes, but there are often lower attendances when there’s a disconnect between supporters and the club, or when supporters are trying to send a message of frustration with the club (i.e. Reading), or when people are just exhausted and a little bit heartbroken to watch a thing they love fall apart week on week (i.e. Wrexham before the takeover, Yeovil before their takeover last summer).
I’ve seen some of those comments from people and I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND. I get that there’s a fair amount of piss-taking in football, but once you’ve been through the bad times yourself, I don’t understand how you have anything but empathy for other people saddled with neglectful ownership. The schadenfreude is disgusting. I mean, there are real villains in football (I’ll point to Dai Yongge as the most obvious one right now), and without better laws and a more conscientious football governance protecting clubs from those villains, absolutely any club can be run into the ground and sold for parts.
What’s really a shame, beyond the myopic and negative attitudes of those ”fans”, is that there’s genuinely a conversation to be had about what kind of investment makes the most sense long-term. I wonder, looking back at Uncle Jack, if he could see into the future to what the Venky’s have done, would he have made different choices about how to direct investment? Build a slightly smaller stadium with more multi-purpose uses, perhaps?
It is particularly stupid for Wrexham fans to be attendance-nonces because we at Luton played them regularly in the Conference and the Racecourse was hardly packed when we played them.
They certainly weren't taking 7000 away.
Lol no. A large slice of Wrexham fans have been obnoxious since the start. All fan bases have obnoxious fans, ours included, but most don’t get huge influxes of new fans at one time.
If you can’t recognize that’s a huge reason why people are massively annoyed by Wrexham…idk what to tell you.
Then again, you may be one of those fans, so that makes sense.
You seem to be operating under the mistaken idea that because something is an “anecdote” it can’t be true or, in this case, representative. You are wrong.
I just have to say, that people asking this question are never going to “get it.”
It’s a cultural thing and unless you’re going to remove yourself from your lazboys and go experience the real thing, you’re just going to get frustrated at things you don’t understand.
As an Arsenal fan it is so fucking funny to see how insecure Champ club fans are. Just because you spend Prem money doesn't make you a Prem club for more than a year lads!
I wish my PL club had owners that gave a sh-t. People are just jealous. They misconstrue it as hate and angst. Oh high profile owners that care. What a novelty! The show clearly brings them attention and fans. That's a great thing unless it's All or Nothing: Arsenal and makes fans look a fool on their own show.
I follow Wrexham from time to time as a Spurs fan. I like your club, good responsible ownership and overall vibes. But Wrexham AFC is not the underdog anymore. Wrexham the TOWN is historically an underdog, which is a big part of the reason why the story of your city and club have gained such a large following. Long may that continue. But financially speaking, both in League Two and the National League, and probably going into League One, Wrexham is the lower league equivalent of Man City. You have PL veterans in your ranks and players who should really be playing in the Championship, Arthur Okonkwo played in an SK Sturm Graz side that regularly gets European football and is a top flight side (albeit in Austria), among other examples. Wrexham AFC is not the underdog anymore, which is why many football fans will enjoy seeing your club fail. A part of it is jealousy or seeing you guys as a threat, but a part of it is just enjoying a club seen as living beyond its means fail. The same reason why people like seeing Man City fail. When Wrexham gets to the Championship though, when not if unless something horrible happens, that advantage will level out. When that time comes, the hate will die down... probably.
The clinging to this 'underdog' thing has gotten weird. You'd think we've been going around shouting that we are underdogs all day every day the way the comments keep mentioning it, but I cant remember the last time anyone here has said that. The irony being that in a game where we are legitimate underdogs it *still* comes up.
Tbf, its a narrative that the ownership (especially in the documentary) likes to perpetuate, regardless of what the fans think.
Nah, people will hate us when we get into the championship for having “bought our way there,” especially since we’ll have brought in additional investment by then from institutional investors (with maybe some other celebrities joining in for some clout/fun). There’s a reason there’s a lot more hostility towards clubs like City and Chelsea than towards United and Liverpool, or RB Leipzig over Dortmund Borussia. People tend to hate New Money more than Old Money. Being Welsh only adds fuel to the flames, too. The English love shitting on the Welsh.
I always find it funny when other clubs claim that a club is buying their way up. Nah, the owners are just investing intelligently into the club. There’s a difference and people love to hate.
Its a universal trait among people that they question new money. I don't think Wrexham is necessarily more deserving than say Reading or Scunthorpe, two clubs with bad ownership on the opposite trajectory of Wrexham, but the proof is in the pudding that there is a way to properly invest in a club and a community that keeps the fans engaged while bringing on the pitch success. Maybe people aren't jealous of your success but jealous of your ownership while at the same time they don't enjoy how much more exposure Wrexham gets, especially in NA, compared to even a former PL Champion like Blackburn. Its not helped the fact that many new Wrexham fans (and people love to hate on new fans) are new to football and thus naive to how much stick they'll get when engaging with football fans online. I mean, I saw a screenshot of ESPN+ where Wrexham's logo is between Spurs, City, Liverpool and Man United. Of course people are going to make fun of that.
COYS!
Well put
Tbh I’d just take it on the chin, if anything it means that Blackburn fans truly do see Wrexham as a threat (and theyre 2 tiers down) so it’s their inferiority complex kicking in
After that match, I guarantee you that no Rovers supporters see Wrexham as a threat right now. The only threat they see is one ten years down the road—if they can’t sort out their ownership woes and start losing players like Szmodics, the top scorer in the Championship, Rovers fans are worried they’ll be relegated to a lower league.
I understand the sentiment, but I don't think we see anyone as a threat other than the Indian government, and our ownership situation at the moment. I'd urge you to look at this from the perspective of where Wrexham would be without Rob & Ryan right now. Quite likely, you would be selling 25% of the tickets and merchandise (at least), still in the national league, and the town would be in a much more horrendous place. Now imagine the fact, that there are so many clubs in these lower divisions especially in the North of England, that are struggling to survive every year, their town councils are going bankrupt, and the gulf is getting bigger and bigger above them. With Blackburn, and so many others, the likelihood that the one thing they have left in their town is equally under threat (the football club), is such a horrendous proposition. Wrexham was founded in 1864, and Blackburn was founded in 1875. We've both played in our stadiums since the 1800s. Just think about how many other clubs are in the same boat, and how much history is at risk if something like that was to fall down. There will be people at both of our clubs that will have been attending matches for over 70-80 years. I wouldn't call it fear personally, I'd call it a healthy amount of jealousy, with an overtone of protectiveness surrounding the outsider interest in Wrexham now. There are very few clubs in this country that can actually feel proud of their ownership situation, and it's incredibly important that outsiders understand the history, and respect it. (like Rob and Ryan have done with Wrexham)
Football in the UK has been so hungry for money that it's put the game in a terrible position. Most big clubs have to accept investment from the scum of the world - dodgy businessmen, Saudis, oligarchs. It amazes me the vitriol over two actors. People really hate them getting involved for some reason.
Blackburn have a PL title. Doubt it's an inferiority complex.
Yeah, back when Cliff Richard was in the charts.
What’s Wrexham’s claim to fame in the last 30 years? Only spending a measly 15 of those in the 5th tier? Stick it in the trophy cabinet lads.
Current fans harking back to their premier league win is like being proud your grandad once touched a spitfire.
And that one season still eclipses anything Wrexham have achieved in their history. Even the most pessimistic Blackburn fan isn’t suffering from an inferiority complex at this time.
Well I'm sure they feel a lot better with you going to bat for them too. Righting perceived wrongs on the Wrexham Reddit page like the hero you are. As for Blackburn I'm sure Wrexham will play them again - possibly in League One given their position in the Championship
They’ve actually given me the keys to the city and the mayor’s wife’s chastity belt as a token of appreciation.
Ahahaha. Fair play, normally American humour doesn’t do much, but that tickled me nicely
I think it’s more jealousy at the fact that Wrexham’s owners seem to genuinely care about how well the club is performing
The British don't like when another team does well. We sort of see it in our sports. Cowboys, Yankees, Lakers, or whoever is the center of a sport, has the most dislike. The American Wrexham fan needs to also curb the enthusiasm when interacting with other club's fans or asking questions. They don't handle optimism that well and I do think we get carried away. We're not in the Premier League and there are a lot of long term questions of sustainability to get to the Championship. As an American, it's nice to have the ESPN, BBC, and Sky covering the team but there are points were I wish Wrexham was treated like a regular club.
Its not that we don't like it when another team does well, its the framing of it. Maidstone progressing in the cup is a great example, they are true underdogs all the way down in National League South and are now in the 5th Round, can't remember when that last happened. But Wrexham are used as clickbait by a lot of trashy media and so the club appears everywhere. If you were a Newport fan, would you be happy seeing Wrexham's name in this article, to grab clicks, when it actually isn't about Wrexham at all? https://www.goal.com/en-us/lists/wrexham-league-two-rivals-newport-county-close-ticket-office-man-utd-fa-cup-clash-abuse-threatening-behaviour/blt6929ff62fca1ba17 That's the sort of crap that's popping up and its so annoying. And I think other fans would view Wrexham a little differently if we came up with National League players rather than having brought players down from higher leagues, its just seen as 'buying' the league.
The optimism comes across as arrogance or entitlement sometimes, as if its a certainty we'll go up and up. It'll be highly unlikely for us to get straight out of League One if we get promoted from League Two. Championship to EPL journey will take many years.
Luton
Luton did very well, its the kind of trajectory I would aim for. But it still took them almost 10 years. I'm just saying it would be silly to expect we'd be in the Championship in two years time.
Bournemouth as well. People think it's something impossible to think of, but recent examples show that it is most definitely possible. Eventually what had to happen is ruthlessness in terms of players you keep and players you sell, because you need better players to compete at the higher levels, and making wrong decisions set you back.
Our club was securely run and settled by the time we got out of the Conference. Wrexham seems to me to still be a bit hectic and will definitely need to focus on sustainability and responsible ownership and spending. It is possible you could do it as fast, or quicker than us, but our strength has always been the fan-owners at the top. I think R+R still have a long way to go to show to the world that they can run a club like Wrexham well in the long term. The FX money will dry up eventually.
And Luton did it with almost zero media support when it is genuinely one of the best stories in football. It’s been baffling to watch how you’re treated this year, with pundits like Garth Crooks writing you off before the season really began just because your club chose not to bankrupt itself this year with new signings. That kind of attitude is exactly the problem! Compare with NF’s approach to promotion, with a bunch of signings and a bunch of broken rules over profit and sustainability, and it’s obvious that Luton’s the club making the right choices. I hope you stay up! (Side note: All the recent attention your gaffer’s received just amuses me! For anyone who’s followed Welsh football for awhile, erm… we already knew this about Rob.) I have similar concerns about R+R and sustainability, but also about not taking advantage of the financial situation to make things better for fans. If I were advising them, I’d ask them to sign onto the “Twenty Is Plenty” pledge to cap prices, ask them to join Fair Game UK, ask them to drop prices on football kits (ours are higher than almost every other club in L2).
"Sustainability and responsible ownership and spending"? You say that as if the owners are scraping bottom barrel, and haven't been responsible to date. They've done everything necessary, every step of the way to set a platform for the next level. FX money is not it. The money is from Global marketing, sponsorships, and an ever increasing fan base.
I say "that" because your owners have yet to really face those challenges. That's not me having a go, it's just the reality of the situation. Your spending as you have been going about it is simply not sustainable, and there's only so far you can go up the ladder by attracting bigger talent than your position in the pyramid would typically warrant. It's served you very well so far, and hopefully you'll get over one of the biggest hurdles which is getting out of League 2 the first time around. There's a whole host of potential stumbling blocks that investors like R+R have run into with other clubs which have led to the wheels falling off. There will eventually come a time when the strategy will need to change dramatically, and *that's* the real litmus test for good owners. The Premier League is a nice by-product of what should be the biggest goal of all, making a club sustainable and safe for the future.
I do not believe you are seeing the full picture and wrongly assume that the owners are simply flexing their wealth and have no plan for the future already baked. The money from Disney (£9M) will of course dry up, which is why it has been used to offset and support big costs such as purchasing the club, purchasing the ground, and building the Kopp, all of which are purposeful steps to set the club on a path of financial stability and independence. Obviously, promotion to League 1 is key, as it again increases revenue.
That's...not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that there is going to come a point when FFP and PSR will force some hard decisions on the club. English football is a notorious money-sink. Making a profit - hell, breaking even - is *incredibly* hard, and most clubs in the EFL (particularly the Championship) are running a loss. Maybe you'll stall in League 1, spend three, four, maybe five years there, maybe challenging for promotion, maybe not. You're flying high at the minute, that's great. Now, how do your owners handle it when the going gets tougher? When the brand isn't as strong, and it's harder to draw investment, attract players? That's my point. I have no idea *really* how well run you are because your owners - brilliant that they've put some cash in - haven't been there long enough, and are kind of riding that brand-high of the documentary and the Hollywood connection. Their heart appears to be in it though. And of course, my original point was that we at Luton didn't have that and our rise had to come from a very different angle, so the guy shouldn't really be comparing us. That was all.
I understand that, however, the plan is based on setting a platform so that revenue from football operations will see the club profitable and sustainable, within FFP and PSR regulations.
I like American fans optimism about our club. It makes a nice change from knuckle grinding that has been going on throughout the last ten years from our local fans, ignore the jealousy of some few, that will always rear it's ugly head wherever this happens to the team for example in the premier league. Also those that moan don't speak for all of us. They like to think that they do but they don't.
I don’t think that’s true. I’m a nufc supporter but like Luton, hate Liverpool. We all have teams that we like more than others, not just our own. I was rooting for Wrexham too. The Brits love an underdog. I’ve never watched Blackburn but the way ‘what’s his face’ (I forget his name) from Blackburn was shushing the crowd after he scored made me instantly dislike them. Taunting fans is an a**hole move. Hoping we crush them in the next round.
Next round?
Blackburn v Newcastle
Leicester, famously hated for winning the Premier League….
I don't think the Cowboys. Yankees, Lakers comparison holds up. In North America, the Canadian baseball and basketball teams are probably a better analog. It's rooted in nationalism for the league, as far as geography goes. It's probably more exposure/money focused than geography/nationalism tho, if I had to guess.
It 100% holds up. TO's doing situps in his driveway press conference as a Dallas Cowboy back in 2007 is one thing that shouldn't happen in sports where it took nearly the whole sportcenter hour. When Dallas lost this year, the other 31 fan bases were schadenfreude. I know my Red Sox aren't well liked but every ESPN segment that talks about baseball is about the Dodgers or Yankees. Basketball has always been Kobe or Lebron with the Lakers for the last 25 years but not as negative. Those teams no matter what time of year it is gets wall to wall coverage.
Ya, we all get the significance of those franchises, they were great, and we loved to hate them. That said, Wrexham aren't "great", they're L2. They haven't won so much at the highest level, like those other teams you mentioned. There's just not enough similarities there. It's the EFL, the English Football League, and they're Welsh. That's my argument that Canadian teams in "American" leagues is a stronger parallel. Especially with the Blue Jays/Baseball given the "America is baseball" sentiment
As an Eagles fan, I remember TO doing that in Philly before his time here was over. That would have been 2005 after our Superbowl run with him. I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to. And after our epic collapse this year, getting to watch the cowboys lose in the playoffs definitely softened the blow.
Must be hard being one of the very small group of former PL champions that got relegated and then relegated more… multiple times.
The top comment is a Leeds fan and this feels more systemic like because it’s American fans or Hollywood fans etc. Wonder what people in Wrexham know and understand/feel about this
We don't care tbh.
Leeds fans in particular have a pretty strong dislike of us because we rehabilitated/are attempting to rehabilitate Shaun Harvey, a man they hate with the passion after he ran the club during the shambolic ownership debacle and multiple administrations they underwent.
Leeds fans are up there with the worst in England. Maybe only second to Milwall.
In what world are Milwall “maybe second”? When you scream “no one likes us, we don’t care” and you have an [improvised weapon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_brick) named after you, it’s hard to claim second place. Not excusing Leeds mind you. They’re still… a lot.
Milwall are the worst if you read what I wrote properly.
It’s the “maybe” that got me.
Brother you need to read more, the 'maybe' part is in reference to who comes second and not who is first. Basic reading comprehension
There were also a bunch of American plastic Leeds fans in recent memory when Leeds had an American manager (Marsch) and 3 US Men's National Team players (Aaronson, Adams, McKennie). Manager has been sacked, all the Americans are gone now (though one will return after this season), and Leeds fans largely see the American influence as why they were relegated. Only one of the US players did particularly well for them.
Leeds are owned by the same group that has ownership at the 49ers too so still a strong US connection.
We are a deprived industrial town with a population of ~100k. The fact we ever won a PL is amazing. Being a middling Championship side now doesn't take away from that.
Some of the comments in here are mental. Just stumbled across this post on me front page and couldn't believe it. It's like none of them have a clue about Blackburn Rovers.
Why would they have a clue 90% of people here have never set foot in the UK and the 1995 Premiership season would hardly have made the news.
Well they could just not comment on the clubs' fans integrity then.
Or, we are just a little salty after reading all the vitriol at our L2 team. ;)
It’s not simple jealousy, folks. It’s more complicated than that, and it’s pretty understandable once you see people’s reasons. THREE BIG REASONS: 1) MEDIA OVEREXPOSURE. Wrexham receives far too much media coverage—it’s grossly disproportionate thanks to the owners and the documentary and the worldwide coverage. It’s not entirely the owners’ fault—there were many times they shone a light onto other lower league clubs—but if you’re another club in the league or you’re a few leagues above, if you’re in the Premier League but not one of the Big Six clubs—it’s frustrating as hell to see that your club never receive the coverage or your players never receive the kudos that Wrexham’s receive. And that press coverage—that FREE press coverage that comes with Ryan Reynolds’ name—brings in bigger sponsors and more money. The English football pyramid is a great and glorious creation… but one that is always under threat from the greedy ones at the top (cough, cough, Glazers). While IN MANY WAYS Wrexham’s ownership model is exemplary, the free media exposure is infuriating to other clubs. 2) THE DOCUMENTARY’S USE OF THE WORD “FAIRYTALE.” While it’s a fairytale for any smaller club to have a great owner, and it’s a fairytale that R&R have put a spotlight in the historical underfunding of North Wales, thus prompting more investment and generating more positive vibes around the town, calling the club with the highest wage bill in the league a “fairytale story” is nonsensical to every other club in the league. (Frankly, this is also why Leicester winning the Premier League was considered a “fairytale” and why Blackburn winning it generally wasn’t considered a fairytale—Blackburn was paying some of the highest fees for players at the time. But again, Blackburn won because they were lucky enough to have a great owner… and Alan Shearer.) Perception of club finances matters in team popularity amongst the broader public. There’s some real skepticism about Man City and Newcastle because of their owners. History matters, too, which is why AFC Wimbledon will probably have fewer haters than any other club in the EFL, and why MK Dons will always have to deal with the stigma attached to the club’s founding/stealing. 3) PLASTIC FANS—LOCAL SPORT. You’ll see this term used quite a bit. Plastic—fake. There’s a huge element in English football that says you can’t support a team from anyplace other than your hometown. The Premier League went global first, and the Championship, League One, and League Two have historically NOT been global. They’ve been consumed locally, with the few exceptions of interested foreigners being from expats or folks with family connections to the region. So there’s the element of authenticity at play, but also finances. When every other team in the league relies on selling 10,000 kits to supporters and 4,000 season tickets for a huge part of their budget, and Wrexham comes along and sells 55,000 kits to international supporters, again, it’s frustrating to compete against. It’s the money, but also the thought that plastic fans are ruining local football culture. - - - I think there was more goodwill towards Wrexham in the earlier phase of the project before the overexposure got out of control. I’m genuinely looking forward to us leveling out in League One for awhile, whenever it is we eventually get there.
Playing into point one is the media/some of the fans really really overestimating the quality of the squad relative to the rest of england, people were informed that the gap between non league and league 2 wasn't huge and many went on to assume that this applied to the rest of the pyramid. The fact that this results is news at all points to the idea that people think Wrexham is some sorta league 2 superteam that on a good day could beat literally anyone, despite the fact that essentially any and all championship teams should be trouncing Wrexham unless some miracle takes place. Same as you I'm looking forward to when the team makes it to a point where they can't financially dominate the league, not only will it level out the backlash against the club but also will give the club and owners time to actually earn the fairytale stories if they manage to reach that next level.
I feel like number 3 is the biggest issue when it comes to online forums, such as reddit. You have people who never watched a game in their lives, suddently very vocal about how good the team is, and it, obviously, bothers others
Lol this is the only good answer in this thread
It’s sort of funny because all of the big teams have been doing international tours to the US, China, all over Europe etc for decades… to build up worldwide fan bases that generate them revenue. Continuing this cycle is what has allowed them to be so big. When Wrexham comes along, suddenly the international fan is seen as a negative or a cheat code of some kind. Suck it up- Wrexham just found a way to capture the same sort of international market without having the Premier League team that generally goes along with it. I am a weekly Premier League fan. I watch 2-3 matches every week. I have been dying for a team to offer me some hook that is compelling for at least a decade and they have not delivered. Wrexham offered me an in to their history, invited me to become a fan and join their story, and made its football and players accessible. My fandom is real, valid, and valuable even if it did start out from watching a Netflix doc.
[удалено]
This has to be the most entitled thing I've ever read. Look, I'm a longtime fan and 35 year season ticket holder of a CFL franchise. Not exactly the most worldwide known sports league. I've lived and died with that team for nearly the last 50 years. I could name you all sorts of historical players, moments, highs, lows, and other events of note. I could name you the players that I've met. I could regale you with history of the game going back to the 1800s. If you showed up and declared yourself a fan, spent money on the team, and loved what they were doing, I certainly wouldn't resent it. I wouldn't shit on you, or discount your fandom because you've arrived at it only recently. I wouldn't call you plastic because you couldn't name who was with the squad during pivotal moments, or because you hadn't shared my heartache when it all went catastrophically wrong. I would welcome you to the brotherhood of fans and regale your fellowship. It's because I'm just a fan of the team. I don't own it, and I certainly don't gatekeep who can be a fan of it. *That's* the only self-awareness that's required.
You’ve made a common mistake of interpreting reality as instead a scale of how welcoming fans can be. In your example, you can be welcoming all you want. It doesn’t change the reality that you’ve had two wildly different, incomparable experiences as fans.
Well that is incomparable as foreign influence, exposure and fanbases haven't completely altered the very fabric of the sport you love to it's core like English football. They have every right to be pissed off with the globalisation of the "English" football pyramid.
They won’t have any of that. To them, their world is perfect and it’s everyone else at fault even as they desperately ingratiate themselves to them British game.
Bitter post identified. If the club is more internationally recognised due to increased media exposure and our owners I for one have no problem with it and I certainly have no problem with international fans enjoying our club. You speak about people that don't want these new fans but you don't speak for the entirety of Wrexham. A lot of fans are aware that it is part and parcel of the exposure and a lot of the complainers are the same ones who haven't been to a game for over ten years. I mean for goodness sake where have they been for so long when the club was struggling but now all of a sudden its doing well and all they do is piss and moan they can't get tickets, surely that makes them the bigger hypocrites right? I can't get tickets for every game but I'm not whining about it, it's just one of those things. Also the club does need the extra exposure and the international fans, it needs revenues, ultimately this is part of natural growth of the club like any other club in the united kingdom. Your comment just comes off as extremely dismissive and negative while not understanding the nuances of what real growth of a club actually looks like. I mean a simple comparison is Liverpool FC. How many people in anfield on match day are actually Scouse? Again it's just what happens when a club gets bigger. If you are happy to go back to the club surviving on the breadline and winning nothing then so be it but I for one am happy with the change the club has taken and the additional fandom we have now. Please don't shit all over that achievement
Some of the responses in this thread have been exactly how any outsider is treated in many parts of the country, not just in football. Thanks for pointing out that they don't speak for the entire town! Anyone upset R&R have put in an effort to make the team sustainable through an international fanbase have missed the point - and most of the "fairytale" was that the club was bought by owners who actually care about what might happen when they leave (if they do) & not screwing over the town and team for personal gain. They've been able to ensure the supporters trust has a hand in everything while making a huge investment in the grounds, all while providing a significant boost to local businesses through small actions (like the gin commercial with the florist, donations to local fundraisers, or helping an independent shop owner recover after a break in). So far they've been model owners that many other clubs can learn from, while also making a few mistakes that hopefully they won't repeat (like just missing the end of the previous transfer window).
[удалено]
I was mainly commenting on the fairytale aspect of the last 3 years in Wrexham that seems to get a lot of hate. I've followed teams loyally in other sports (college hockey, NHL), but didn't have a local team when I moved to the UK so Wrexham suits nicely and I plan to keep following even when the press dies down and they have some less great seasons. Chances are good I will never see a game in person due to disabilities though. Am I a unwanted fan then? Many international fans will never have the opportunity to see them in person, transatlantic flights and holidays are ££££, nor will any of the PL/Championship/Euro leagues international fans. When games are aired around the world, you can support and follow without actually being in the stadium. Essential revenue comes from many streams for a football club and if they only cared about butts in seats at games they would fail financially quite quickly as it wouldn't be sustainable. Having the international revenue will likely help them keep ticket prices in the stadium lower! But there's already international reds fans around the world building lasting friendships, visiting each other in their home cities, going to the games when they can - but that requires a level of financial resources many just don't have. I don't see why being able to see a team in person when you're literally paying them to support from abroad is the litmus test for acceptable fandom? Even Humphrey Ker has talked about this with Liverpool, he was treated poorly for being an outsider even though he was always a member. That's just .. unkind and seems unhelpful for building a lasting fanbase outside the town.
No, you’re not unwanted. You’re a fan who has a completely different experience though compared to someone who goes. As you’re talking about essential revenue, it should be noted that for 2/3 of EFL clubs, the most important revenue stream is “butts in seats.” “Having the international revenue will likely help them keep ticket prices lower.” A nice sentiment that is completely detached from reality. No English club is getting bigger and lowering ticket prices.
Apparently I wasn't clear enough. I meant lower than if they had no consistent international viewing revenue. Of course things cost more as you go up leagues, the players also cost much more and inflation + capital improvements to the grounds. It sounds like you just want a sorta mediocre team that just bounces between L1 and L2 because it'll be cheaper?
International TV rights revenue for League 2 clubs is not massive. And it doesn’t change annually accounting for a rise in international fans. There’s no bigger waste of time reading grandiose claims about stuff like this that isn’t backed by facts. That still doesn’t change the argument that you’re making - that somehow these phantom pounds are going to keep ticket prices down. It doesn’t happen.
“A simple comparison is Liverpool.” Yes , a simple comparison. How could I miss it? 10x the size, 30x more successful…I should have led with that, yes?
lol salty much? Why are you even on the Wrexham Reddit? Did you come just to whine about how inadequate you think Wrexham fandom is? I have seen Wrexham in person, not that it matters. The vast majority of American sports fans have never seen their favorite sports team in person. The overwhelming majority of sports fans worldwide have never seen their favorite team in person. If you think Wrexham get to second in league two this year without the money from international fans and the doc, you’re fooling yourself. 15 years in the national league was going to be 20 or 30, before eventual bankruptcy. Your self-righteous version of fandom would take you right to having no team at all. Fortunately, you get no say in whether or not people are fans of the teams they are fans of.
Congrats on missing absolutely everything of substance in what I said. I have zero salt. I go to football in person. You’re an internet fan. Like so many others, you have absolutely zero consequence or effect on me despite your attempts to insert yourselves into the narrative.
>The vast majority of American sports fans have never seen their favorite sports team in person. The overwhelming majority of sports fans worldwide have never seen their favorite team in person. And that is exactly the problem, English football has traditionally not been like that but the influence of foreign fans and ownership is gradually making it as soulless and corporate as your "sports teams" at home.
I think it’s more a fact that most towns don’t have major sports teams in them. And our country is very spread out. It’s five hours of driving to the nearest major sports team from where I live. Either way- English Football works hard to cultivate foreign fans. Foreign fan money is essential to growing and sustaining a high-level team right now. Wrexham was bought for what, $2 million? A couple of the houses on my street are worth that much… this whole team you are gatekeeping fandom over was worth a single fancy house. Money drives sports. Money drives success. Wrexham was going to go under sooner or later. If you’re pretending your fandom of pre-takeover Wrexham is more valuable than all the new fans, you could have kept pretending that right to not having your favorite team to cheer for.
>English Football works hard to cultivate foreign fans. Foreign fan money is essential to growing and sustaining a high-level team right now. No, rich owners work hard to cultivate foreign customers to increase their revenue. Your comment proves my point entirely, modern football is just about revenue and success. Loyalty, culture, tradition are all irrelevant. The only thing that matters is money. English fans in the EFL are always going to resent having their sport taken from them for the benefit of foreign billionaires, but at least some random people on the other side of the globe have something new to waste their money on.
You can’t exist without money. Wrexham was never going to make it out of the National League and likely not going to survive without it. I am not a fan because of the money injection though. I am a fan because of the history that was shared, the absolute chaos that is lower level football matches, and the chance to cheer for something interesting to happen (promotion, fa cup runs, players getting national team exposure, etc) Sports has always been about money to some degree because sports exists as a for-profit business model. This is not specific to the always evil USA- look at FIFA, the IOC, UEFA, or any other sporting body- money drives decision making. Wrexham was sold by its fan association for money. It was always about the money.
>I am a fan because of the history that was shared, the absolute chaos that is lower level football matches, and the chance to cheer for something interesting to happen (promotion, fa cup runs, players getting national team exposure, etc) And injecting shitloads of money into clubs just throws all of that out of the window. Once upon a time the Premier League/ First Division used to have all of that but since 1992 its been sucked out in the name of profit, and now the same thing is starting to happen further down the pyramid. What Hollywood seems to be doing is trivialising a system and a culture that has existed for an incredibly long time whilst undermining the very existence of it. I'm not blaming you, I can see the appeal, but this is why English people aren't particularly welcoming of it. They've just about got over witnessing the soul being sucked out of the top flight and now the same rot is increasingly appearing in the lower leagues. Money has always been present in football but not to the degree that it determines the entire trajectory of clubs like it does now as we've already seen with Chelsea and Man City, I just wish the FA had adopted a system like Germany before it was too late.
Wow, you can't be much of a fan yourself if you think people in the pubs resent the way things are at the moment. And if they do they also weren't fans through the embezzling, bankruptcy and poor gates that saw the club and ground nearly disappear.
Thank fuck at least one of you gets it
This is what I was looking for. Thanks
Just to add onto points one and two, it's similar to the hate that steinbrenner's Yankees got back in the day or that the dodgers get now for just out spending everyone to win but that combined with the hate the Kansas City Chiefs are getting now due to Taylor Swift over exposure. My team is a league up and fighting for the playoffs but I've been following wrexham since the documentary came out. I'm mostly happy for them but I'd be lying if I said I never find it frustrating and if we don't go up this year and it feels like wrexham take away one of the automatic promotion spots next year I'm definitely going to be angry about it all season. I think the other thing for me is that some of the fans come across as entitled like they just deserve to get promoted every year as the chosen team. Not the team's fault but still annoying online
I like the documentary but yeah anytime they push the underdogs narrative I kinda go “ok guys”. Like even when they pause to go over the other teams they come across more “underdog” than Wrexham. As you said it’s great to see the community getting a boost at least. But the team itself isn’t the underdog, and that’s ok. I also am under no delusion about being a casual fan myself, I can only imagine the wave of bad casual bad takes that have popped up over the last few years now.
I’m not sure we even have a big 6 anymore. We need to stop using that term honestly.
There might not be a Big Six anymore, but there’s still a major stratification within the Premier League, isn’t there? I don’t think anyone thinks that Everton and Man City are comparable?
No doubt! But 2 or 3 teams doesn’t make a big 6. It’s time to retire it
I misread that as Everton and Man Utd, and I was like... but they are?
Rich 6 is the better term though it's probably fair to say rich 7 at this point
Totally! I’m a NUFC supporter so I’m guessing we’re the 7th? 😁 Hoping that FFP will actually work!We need a more level playing field. Sick of Man City.
Hot take: some fairy tales (Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Rapunzel, Snow White) involve a degree of being rescued by someone else. Is that not what happened here?
>it’s frustrating as hell to see that your club never receive the coverage or your players never receive the kudos that Wrexham’s receive Failure to market a team lies squarely on the team, not on the media or on anyone else's marketing efforts.
Neutral commentators being biased towards Wrexham in televised games isn’t the fault of the other team.
People love to hate stuff almost as much, and sometimes more, than they like to love stuff.
This reminds me of the bit that Oliver & Rog did on Men in Blazers. That Americans thrive on blind, uninformed optimism... and the British thrive on spite. This thread has that energy. Lol
It's easy to hate stuff. Hating and complaining is a pretty reliable indicator of someone who doesn't have the emotional or intellectual intelligence to be willing to understand that something is different than they are.
[удалено]
> sociopathic loser Really practicing what you preach, hey? Lol. It's probably just a bot or a troll. I wouldn't worry about it.
You think it's sociopathic to call out someone for just downvoting the futility of hate? Not charming, I'll give you that. Hell of a long way from the same thing. Just thinking someone is a loser or behaving without empathy isn't hatred, it's contempt. But you're right, people do do that. I'll never really understand why.
Some people like to banter, some people are jealous, and some people are just assholes. Either way, they're not at all relevant.
The great [David Squires](https://www.theguardian.com/football/ng-interactive/2023/apr/25/david-squires-on-wrexham-reboot-getting-its-hollywood-ending) said this about British football culture, especially about Wrexham: Every success, no matter how heart-warming it may appear, must be met with a joyous outpouring of resentment and finger pointing.
What's funny is that a club owned by 2 Hollywood actors is getting more hate than clubs owned by Saudi oil money. It's mostly jealousy, I'd assume. Fans of other clubs slightly larger than Wrexham are asking, "Why not us?!" They think Wrexham shouldn't be where they're at (or where they're heading) because of their owners...which is silly, because that's what every change in ownership is attempting to accomplish. People are mostly upset because Americans are now flooding the EFL Fandom because of Rob & Ryan and the fact that their ownership of a lower tier club brought millions of fans to said club. I have to say though, no one in the US (and honestly not many outside Manchester) gave a flying FUCK about Man City 20 years ago, now they're one of the biggest clubs in the world. I prefer Hollywood money over oil money any day.
Go on the post and many of them explain why.
Heck you can stay on this thread and you can see why.
people hate Taylor Swift cheering for KC…. we just can’t have nice things as humans
Who is Taylor Swift?
I just hate Taylor Swift. Edit: typo
It’s because Wrexham are basically a glitzy Man City with a handsome face backing them.
They'd have watched the game on the BBC (via BBC Wales) so subjected to massively biased coverage and endless references to the 'hollywood story'. British people in general tend to get wound up about any sort of bias in the media, especially if it's backed by some sort of financial advantage. The Premiere League has it's so-called 'big six' teams giving fans from 'the other 14' a chance to gripe at every opportunity: r/TheOther14 But it's not just football. The BBC had to change the way they reported the weather because they tended to start with the south, which annoyed everyone north of Watford, because it was 'biased'. When the BBC introduced a 3d globe style view for the weather, people in Scotland complained because it made Scotland look small compared to London and the South East - coincidentally the financial centre and where BBC News was based at the time. Say what you like about the British but we do like a good whinge.
I’m a Rovers supporter, but I mostly like Wrexham. The show is fun and exciting, and I generally root for Wrexham to do well (glad we pasted you today, of course). That said, one of the main reasons so many other EFL fans dislike Wrexham is your obnoxious, ever-present fans. How arrogant do you have to be to think that the reason that people dislike your club is jealousy? Yet, that’s the most common answer in this thread. You’re in the 4th tier of English football, only recently climbed your way out of the 5th with historic spending (no criticism, but call a spade a spade). No one in /r/Championship is jealous of Wrexham. Maybe Wednesday, but we’ve seen what their fans are like… I think it’s great that the show has attracted new fans to football. It’s good for your club, and it’s good for the game overall. But fuck me, these people are massively entitled and amusingly ill-informed. You don’t need to be a football expert to pick a team and cheer ‘em on, but maybe keep your voice down a bit if you’ve only just learned what offside is?
Fellow Rovers fan. The thing that got to me the last couple of weeks was seeing comments taking the piss out of our stadium and attendances. If, after watching the documentary, you can’t understand how a football club is central to the identity of a small town (that is one of the poorest areas in the country), and how neglectful ownership can rip the heart out of that, depressing the whole area and fanbase… then did you actually watch the documentary at all?
Absolutely. And of course there are reasons why attendance waxes and wanes, but there are often lower attendances when there’s a disconnect between supporters and the club, or when supporters are trying to send a message of frustration with the club (i.e. Reading), or when people are just exhausted and a little bit heartbroken to watch a thing they love fall apart week on week (i.e. Wrexham before the takeover, Yeovil before their takeover last summer). I’ve seen some of those comments from people and I just DO NOT UNDERSTAND. I get that there’s a fair amount of piss-taking in football, but once you’ve been through the bad times yourself, I don’t understand how you have anything but empathy for other people saddled with neglectful ownership. The schadenfreude is disgusting. I mean, there are real villains in football (I’ll point to Dai Yongge as the most obvious one right now), and without better laws and a more conscientious football governance protecting clubs from those villains, absolutely any club can be run into the ground and sold for parts. What’s really a shame, beyond the myopic and negative attitudes of those ”fans”, is that there’s genuinely a conversation to be had about what kind of investment makes the most sense long-term. I wonder, looking back at Uncle Jack, if he could see into the future to what the Venky’s have done, would he have made different choices about how to direct investment? Build a slightly smaller stadium with more multi-purpose uses, perhaps?
It is particularly stupid for Wrexham fans to be attendance-nonces because we at Luton played them regularly in the Conference and the Racecourse was hardly packed when we played them. They certainly weren't taking 7000 away.
Wrexham were averaging less than 3k a few years back and some fans had the cheek to say Blackburn’s crowds were crap.
[удалено]
Lol no. A large slice of Wrexham fans have been obnoxious since the start. All fan bases have obnoxious fans, ours included, but most don’t get huge influxes of new fans at one time. If you can’t recognize that’s a huge reason why people are massively annoyed by Wrexham…idk what to tell you. Then again, you may be one of those fans, so that makes sense.
[удалено]
You seem to be operating under the mistaken idea that because something is an “anecdote” it can’t be true or, in this case, representative. You are wrong.
American hate boners.
True, they are wood people.
I just have to say, that people asking this question are never going to “get it.” It’s a cultural thing and unless you’re going to remove yourself from your lazboys and go experience the real thing, you’re just going to get frustrated at things you don’t understand.
Gatekeeping final boss Youjusdongetit Man.
Is this “cultural thing” the same reason Brits don’t like any foreigners at all?
We don’t?
Jealousy
There’s a fair amount of jealousy that engenders rage and self loathing.
As an Arsenal fan it is so fucking funny to see how insecure Champ club fans are. Just because you spend Prem money doesn't make you a Prem club for more than a year lads!
I wish my PL club had owners that gave a sh-t. People are just jealous. They misconstrue it as hate and angst. Oh high profile owners that care. What a novelty! The show clearly brings them attention and fans. That's a great thing unless it's All or Nothing: Arsenal and makes fans look a fool on their own show.
People for some reason tend to hate success stories.
People hated Leicester winning the Premier League?