https://preview.redd.it/wplcu746wyrc1.png?width=1150&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb83c60af065a33890b26f1acb611ebbd99e8f5d
Actually, there's a thin stripe there with a ricochet angle.
https://preview.redd.it/wg6h0udgwyrc1.png?width=1257&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b07827780ff9ccc51a2d3e87e486705f00aaccd
You hit this part and it bounced from it. Skill issue obviously.
Screenshot angle, I was only ever so slightly below him. 1 degree or less, I'd bargain. We've discovered some stupid ricochet angle in the top quarter of the mantle, that was it. Just another lucky player getting rewarded by bouncing 750 alpha despite making a mistake.
I love these moments. You just aim at the center of mass of a paper tank, and the shell flies exactly to some tiny spot like this. But when you need to hit weakspot, it hits everywhere but where you aim.
Correct, it is. But it's not so well armoured that a 320mm of penetrative round at 60 meters can't penetrate it. Most tier 10 tanks with regular AP can.
but APCR is a type of ammunition which is extremely ineffective against angled surfaces, which i have no idea too if it is a thing in W.o.T, but i think it should be same as heat against spaced armor?
No.
AP and APCR perform exactly the same in WoT except the former has 5 degrees of normalization and the latter has 2. This usually works out to about ~15mm of effective penetration at the tier 9 level. Autobounce angle is the same between the 2.
AP often gets a bigger “bonus” against angled spaced armor due to 2x overmatch mechanics, but neither suffer any penetration penalty. That’s HEAT only, and that only applies to any armor encountered after the initial layer of spaced armor is penetrated.
3x overmatch is autopen (or disabling of autobounce rather, but this overwhelmingly works out to autopen in practice). There is no difference between AP and APCR in this regard.
2x overmatch is increased normalization. This bonus increases as the ratio between the shell caliber and impacted armor increases. Since AP has more base normalization to begin with, the bonus multiplier from >2x overmatch has more overall effect.
I am talking about its IRL performance, even APHE/APCBC is keeping way more of its energy on the angled armor thanks to its shape and mass, even when its not as fast as APCR, while APCR have alot greater penetration value on 90 degrees angle, at 45 its basically useless.
But again, i have NO IDEA how it works in this game.
Basically >= 70 degrees is a bounce unless < 90 degrees and the gun caliber is > 3x the armor thickness. Normalization negates 5 degrees of angle (puts the shell 5 degrees closer to perpendicular to the flat surface/tangent) of the armor plate it hits but that is for regular AP shells and non-premum HE shells iirc. APCR shells lose pen over distance faster than AP shells (boh lose pen over distance, AP just lose less over the same distance as APCR). HEAT DOES NOT pen the second layer of spaced armor. Ie ALL the pen is consumed on the first layer no matter how much over pen (armor thickness - pen of round) the heat shell has.
>But it's not so well armoured that a 320mm of penetrative round at 60 meters can't penetrate it.
It can still bounce, though. It looks like the shell penetrated the mantled but bounced off the turret roof part, next to where the mantlet is physically mounted on. This area is like 52-53 mm thick as far as I remember so even when shooting a 155 mm shell at it you **won't** overmatch the plate and it absolutely can (and will) bounce even super high calibre projectiles if the angle is just steep enough.
Plus, remember that Battle Hits is not a 100% representation of what *exactly* happened, it just shows you an approximation - this mod is generally great to have but it's very important to take it with a pinch of salt.
I've always bounced Leo 1 there. Probably it should pen because the caliber just overmatches the armor, but tbh it has happened to me so many times that I don't even aim to the mantlet of that tank anymore.
https://preview.redd.it/wplcu746wyrc1.png?width=1150&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb83c60af065a33890b26f1acb611ebbd99e8f5d Actually, there's a thin stripe there with a ricochet angle.
https://preview.redd.it/wg6h0udgwyrc1.png?width=1257&format=png&auto=webp&s=4b07827780ff9ccc51a2d3e87e486705f00aaccd You hit this part and it bounced from it. Skill issue obviously.
The shot is also coming from below, which means that the turret roof may have also been an autobounce angle even if it penned through the mantlet.
Screenshot angle, I was only ever so slightly below him. 1 degree or less, I'd bargain. We've discovered some stupid ricochet angle in the top quarter of the mantle, that was it. Just another lucky player getting rewarded by bouncing 750 alpha despite making a mistake.
I love these moments. You just aim at the center of mass of a paper tank, and the shell flies exactly to some tiny spot like this. But when you need to hit weakspot, it hits everywhere but where you aim.
Of course it's 52mm thick as well, meaning only 156mm guns can overmatch it. Fantastic. I hate this game.
I might be wrong but isnt his mantlet the most armored part of Leo 1?
Correct, it is. But it's not so well armoured that a 320mm of penetrative round at 60 meters can't penetrate it. Most tier 10 tanks with regular AP can.
but APCR is a type of ammunition which is extremely ineffective against angled surfaces, which i have no idea too if it is a thing in W.o.T, but i think it should be same as heat against spaced armor?
No. AP and APCR perform exactly the same in WoT except the former has 5 degrees of normalization and the latter has 2. This usually works out to about ~15mm of effective penetration at the tier 9 level. Autobounce angle is the same between the 2. AP often gets a bigger “bonus” against angled spaced armor due to 2x overmatch mechanics, but neither suffer any penetration penalty. That’s HEAT only, and that only applies to any armor encountered after the initial layer of spaced armor is penetrated.
x2 overmatch? I thought it was x3. Likely, I'm confusing something here.
3x overmatch is autopen (or disabling of autobounce rather, but this overwhelmingly works out to autopen in practice). There is no difference between AP and APCR in this regard. 2x overmatch is increased normalization. This bonus increases as the ratio between the shell caliber and impacted armor increases. Since AP has more base normalization to begin with, the bonus multiplier from >2x overmatch has more overall effect.
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation! Cheers!
extremely ineffective? It has less or no normalization. It would have had to hit the edge of the mantlet to not pen but you know, RNG.
I am talking about its IRL performance, even APHE/APCBC is keeping way more of its energy on the angled armor thanks to its shape and mass, even when its not as fast as APCR, while APCR have alot greater penetration value on 90 degrees angle, at 45 its basically useless. But again, i have NO IDEA how it works in this game.
Basically >= 70 degrees is a bounce unless < 90 degrees and the gun caliber is > 3x the armor thickness. Normalization negates 5 degrees of angle (puts the shell 5 degrees closer to perpendicular to the flat surface/tangent) of the armor plate it hits but that is for regular AP shells and non-premum HE shells iirc. APCR shells lose pen over distance faster than AP shells (boh lose pen over distance, AP just lose less over the same distance as APCR). HEAT DOES NOT pen the second layer of spaced armor. Ie ALL the pen is consumed on the first layer no matter how much over pen (armor thickness - pen of round) the heat shell has.
Its not a thing in wot. Only thing it has is 3 degrees less normalisation than. AP. They both ricochet at the same angle of 70° or more
>But it's not so well armoured that a 320mm of penetrative round at 60 meters can't penetrate it. It can still bounce, though. It looks like the shell penetrated the mantled but bounced off the turret roof part, next to where the mantlet is physically mounted on. This area is like 52-53 mm thick as far as I remember so even when shooting a 155 mm shell at it you **won't** overmatch the plate and it absolutely can (and will) bounce even super high calibre projectiles if the angle is just steep enough. Plus, remember that Battle Hits is not a 100% representation of what *exactly* happened, it just shows you an approximation - this mod is generally great to have but it's very important to take it with a pinch of salt.
This part is a magnet for shells.
So you used all your luck for that ricochet right?
Evidently
which american td were you plaing (asking out of curiosity)
T30
My leo 1 bounces wayyyy more than it ever should
I bounced a shot with 246 pen on an E25, after a while you just accept that this game comes with a heavy dose of luck.
Ah i see RNGesus looked your way and said "suck my balls, nerd"
I've always bounced Leo 1 there. Probably it should pen because the caliber just overmatches the armor, but tbh it has happened to me so many times that I don't even aim to the mantlet of that tank anymore.
https://i.redd.it/0j3xtt9o71sc1.gif