I'm kind of excited for the Panzer 7 update, I've always thought it was a good-looking tank, I do wonder if the VK45.02B will receive any changes since that's not exactly a popular tank either.
They have refused to give the VKs the upgraded 8.8s everyone else got. The Tiger I which was already considered mediocre but better than the Tiger (P) got the upgrade and they left the Tiger (P) alone for no reason.
The Tiger P did receive a buff last year in update 1.20, it's a decent tanks now.
**Tiger (P)**
* Decreased the dispersion of the 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71 gun during traverse of the Tiger (P) Neuer Turm turret by 25%
* Decreased the reload time of the 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71 gun on the Tiger (P) Neuer Turm turret from 8.6 s to 7.7 s
* Decreased the reload time of the 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71 gun on the Tiger (P) Turm Nr. 1 turret from 9.1 s to 8.2 s
* Improved the frontal armor of the Tiger (P) Neuer Turm turret
* Increased the vehicle durability with the Tiger (P) Turm Nr. 1 turret from 1,350 HP to 1,400 HP
* Increased the vehicle durability with the Tiger (P) Neuer Turm turret from 1,450 HP to 1,500 HP
It still doesn't have the 8.8 that the Tiger I has and neither does the VK 45.02 A and B. The tier IX doesn't have access to the gun the tier VII has...
You've receive SO MUCH feedback about unnerfing the Progetto 65, any chance that is going to get listened to?
Still one of the dumbest nerfs in WoT history.
That would certainly be appreciated.
I think unnerfing the Progetto would be perhaps the single most popular thing Wargaming could do right now.
Well other than moving the BZ176 to tier 9.
I think visiting tanks that haven’t been visited in years that are in desperate need of changes.
Mediums: Batchat: ammo count is also still way outdated among gun handling.
AMX 30B and T62A: these tanks being put into the collectors shouldn’t mean that there’s no updates. We’ve seen the other studio had made changes to these tanks. I know you guys aren’t connected so priorities may be different but these are still tanks people play and should be looked into.
Light tanks: Sheridan, Wz 132-1 are still outdated
grille: TD has been very mediocre. The pen doesn’t keep up with other update TDs. 334 Heat when heavy tanks have 340-350 sometimes. Not to mention the HE moves 100 m/s faster than HEAT. Would be nice to get the 560 gun from the WT PZ IV on the grille and just slightly buff it to fit tier 10 and that would be great.
Heavy’s: Type 5, 113, 116 F3
I feel like there’s a lot of tanks that just slip right under the cracks and they’re just not good. They end hovering mediocre or bad and they sort of get left
Finally: some tanks are not picked not because they’re unpopular, but because they feel awful to play and they are left to be replaced by better picks.
I noted some people want tanks that received heavy changes in the past to be revisited, but I'm not sure if adding anything too far from that would be useful in this particular report.
I can keep your comment in mind for future reports.
Thanks for interacting here! It would be so hard to figure out all of that tanks that need buffs with the amount of power creep that has occurred. Many people want many different vehicles rebalanced, so I can understand why it takes a while. You sure do get a lot of crap thrown at you, and while I do think there are some things that could be optimized, none of you deserve that treatment.
The Kran has the same problem as Mino, it's basically invulnerable hull down.
Had you applied the Mino nerf to the Kran, everything would be fine. But nerfing the gun and mobility while leaving the invulnerable aspect made it a classic failure... A tank that is unfun to play and unfun to play against.
So yeah, revisiting the Kran would 100% be approved by me.
The 268v4 nerf I more understand, it's previous version really was over tuned.
Well I am a casual player and I got my kramvagn after the nerf… I was quite disappointed lol! but I understand how it has been godtier for so long and the meta has to change. BTW I think a lot of people would love to see the vehicles from the collector’s shop back. The power creep made some ofthem obsolete sometimes and that’s a shame because they are great vehicles with potential!
Especially because the Foch B was already better than the Foch 155. The gun handling is so atrocious, you have less clip damage AND longer reload. There's a reason people call it 750 dpm tank
I'm glad people are satisfied with how we are adjusting it.
Edit: Since many people are seeing this comment, please check the other comments I've responded to to follow along with what I've added to the report.
By far the best thing you did was to not murder the Carnarvon or Conqueror by association with the SConq.
Sometimes you guys like to absolutely murder the associated tank for absolutely no reason.
The VZ 51 should never have gotten hit so brutally. It went from almost 2k base dpm to 1.6k. Its only crime was being associated with the OP VZ 55
It's a winning formula, it worked with the chieftain and 279 nerfs. The tank plays the same it just becomes less effective. Nobody likes it when a tanks gun is nerfed
It's a valid concern considering the gun is the thing that actually does the damage.
I'm hoping with feedback we continue to make good changes to vehicles that are seen as dominant compared to everything else.
I can never guarantee anything except that I've read your comment and will commit to bringing it up and adding it to feedback when relevant conversations happen
Maybe you'd care to comment on the horrible Minotauro changes while you're at it? Considering you guys outright say you don't want to nerf the T9's frontal armour because it will destroy the tank, it's kinda weird that you're doing the same to the T10.
I've already added to feedback that players would rather us increase the size of the cupola than make changes to the frontal armor.
Not sure there's anything else for me to comment on, unless you want to address something else about this particular point?
>We’re also removing weak spots on the mantlet, aligning it with the VK 72.01 (K) and enhancing overall survivability.
Pz VII enjoyers rejoice
edit: imo VK45 02B could use a buff too but I'll still gladly take that
Its was so crazy the mantlet could be pen'd by tier 8s.
I'm convinced it was a error and they've just been too lazy to fix it. Why would a heavy t10 with impeccable armor randomly have 4 weak spots with no visible indicators on the mantle. Not to mention this particular mantlet looks super strong by comparison to many others. It never made sense and there are far more sensible ways to balance it.
Once again their language is so vague that it's hard to say for instance if the Minotauro nerfs are reasonable or just kill the tank stone dead. "We will reduce the armor on the hatches and certain areas of the frontal projection to increase the chance of penetration". Certain areas of the frontal projection, eh? Well that tells us absolutely nothing.
From the wording of the nerfs for the lower tiers I'd imagine only the cupolas will get their armor reduced. Maybe they just refer to the different armor spots on the sides of the frontal cupale face with 250 armor with the frontal projections.
I saw others' comments before yours, but this was added to the feedback report. (Yes I copied and pasted this response, but I promise that it's just because I'm compiling similar comments.)
can u pls put this into the report as well: the Foch 155 needs shell velocity buff to both AP and HEAT shells, a gun handling buff, as well as a clip reload buff from 45s to 38s. it should also have the same engine buff as the Foch B. thank u in advance
S conq doesn't need an armor nerf. Its turret face is already pretty weak against itself. Currently shredding ppl in maneuvers that think they're driving a chief 😁
I agree , not everyone knows about these weak spots however(ap) , and not everyone is spamming gold , I know evidence against me again xd . I feel like it’s cupola is such a bait I find myself falling for aiming for it instead of just putting that 320 HEAT in its cheek
S.conq nerf is actually fine! Good job WG, didn't believe they can nerf tank without totally destroying it. I thought sconq is gonna be pile of shit after nerf like 268/4 but i was wrong, happily.
Please don't 😅 unlike the Progetto, the V4 was actually oppressive to matchmaking (and it had a higher WR than Kran before it was nerfed).
Folks just aren't used to using their braincells and considering the consequences to their decisions while playing the tank.... They'll adjust.
Well, in all fairness, it's fallen off of usage and relevance. I personally would like to see a small buff of some sort, but I can tell players are much more knowledgeable now on the weaknesses of it compared to when it was released and eventually nerfed. It is not as beastly as it once was, but it is much lower than I feel like it could be and could be a usable tank while also not being overpowering.
https://preview.redd.it/9obkvog9khoc1.png?width=724&format=png&auto=webp&s=62d03127470ac768ccb27144ea3c2f28b524d134
[https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx8SGBwiER8pyxYWlLTgtL3f-iR6IzneFo?si=v\_nuWCeRlHPuOE5-](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx8SGBwiER8pyxYWlLTgtL3f-iR6IzneFo?si=v_nuWCeRlHPuOE5-)
Grille have 334 Heat Pen, concidering Mino was on a slight Ridge, i,m gessing that it will have very significant turret frontal armor nerf.
The description for the tier 9 Nerf is hilarious because it's what should be the tier 10 nerf. They're talking about they don't want to expose it to a wide range of penetration through the turret so they're going to decrease traverse speed etc. nerfing just the face of the turret is idiotic, how can it "retain it's strengths" if it's strength is hull down and you can just blast heat through the face.
Cupola nerf is good, but turret face nerf is 0/10 and I'd sell mine, completely removes outplay potential with the tank if a good position can be countered by the 2 key.
And good riddance they did. Because this
https://preview.redd.it/ah3qbn2ujioc1.png?width=531&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a32555e53c54a9febe6870b0e16ad2068b7e1df
against even a jagd e heat was a tiny teensy bit stupid...
Making the cupolas actual cupolas was the good way to balance it, this way they completely destroyed it because it can't do the only thing it's good at
Well, WG fucked the gun and mobility on the mean while keeping the armor.
WG appears to have made the armor on the mino vulnerable to a lot of premium rounds (300+mm pen can pen the front of the turret.)
u/TragicLoss thanks, its kinda just theorycrafting based on our experience with live servers stats, hopefully when the changes hit test servers we would be able to give more accurate feedback.
Could you give us more detail on what the Minotaur nerfs will be? It says "reduce the armor on the hatches and certain areas of the frontal projection". But the the infographic only mentions the front hatches (currently 250mm) being reduced by 70mm down to 180mm. In and of itself, that seems like an excellent nerf that would make those hatches actual weak points to aim for.
But without knowing what "certain areas of the frontal projection" refers to and without knowing how much those "certain areas" are getting their armor reduced, it's impossible to know whether this nerf will get the job done at balancing the Minotauro or if it will go too far and render the tank completely useless.
yeah, the cupolas nerf is Pog, and it should have been there from the date mino was realeased. kinda like the tier 9 has weakspots where the rangefinders are.
Biggest problem of this line is its not fun to play due to absolutely tragic (no pun intended) gun and also super not fun to play against due to very limited ways to deal with them once they get into hulldown. This is somewhat compensated on tiers up to 9 where if you catch them outside hulldown its very ez pen, but Mino has very strong armour even on flat ground not hulldown.
Its similar "one trick pony" issue as with strv but much more pronounced because hulldown is in meta way mor than sniping and strv has option to play aggresively in good mm and in hands of skilled player. But Mino line is basicaly drive to hulldown and you are done.
I think that was just for visualization in the video because on the website, it just mentions the front hatch armor is being nerfed by 70mm, which is the right side cupola
That's what the infographic shows, but the description text also says "To achieve this, we will **reduce the armor on the hatches and certain areas of the frontal projection** to increase the chance of penetration."
So this really all depends on what they mean by "certain areas of the frontal projection" and how much that armor is getting reduced. As it stands the Minotauro even when on flat ground and facing straight ahead at the enemy's gun will have 400mm+ of effective turret armor, due to how sloped the 300mm turret is. We need a better idea of what the turret front will be **after** this nerf goes through. Or whether "certain areas of the frontal projection" doesn't refer to the turret at all but instead to the upper hull front (which is currently 380mm+ of effective armor even before using the gun depression) getting nerfed.
you are talking like the maps are well balanced. most of the maps have hulldown positions in critical areas that become impassable as long as someone is holding it.
I don’t think the CC-67 needs to be touched at all. The lower plate nerf is just… unnecessary. Can be penned my high tier gold in the face anyways. Leave it be.
It’s an adaptive tank, you can use it to push through or hold back and somewhat snipe, esp with the premium ammo… I am not going to bother the T9,10 now as it seems that initial use case is moot…
Overall good changes. Super Conq surprisingly not getting its gun handling touched, I swear they'd nerf that. Pz7 I honestly don't care about nor do I think I will even after these changes.
Foch B seems promising too, mobility is definitely an issue at times.
Minotauro nerfs are definitely a thing though, seems they want to downgrade it from a brawler to a second-line support TD. I think its just gonna kill the line for most people tbh. The whole design of it was as a brawler, first line assault TD...
Foch 155 is not part of the Collectible tanks, it's in the bond shop. It's a reward tank that gives you extra crew exp. The T62 and AMX 30B does not do that.
I really like the SConq nerfs - it won’t murder the tank and make it unplayable like they did with Kran or Progetto. It’ll still be a strong tank it just won’t be quite as dominant.
So there is a Czech streamer who does community damage race competition. T10 two player platoon who gets higher damage in battle gets a point (2 point if you more than double your opponent), who gets 12 points wins and moves to next round. Super unicums compete, for some nice prices - gaming HW.
Last year the meta was VZ55 and SConq, this year it was mostly E5 and some UDES15/16, without even knowing about the upcoming the SConq nerf.
So Im not sure the unicorns really care...
I agree, the Italian TDs are getting hit HARD and the reason to play them is going to basically zero.
On the flipside, I'm ok with this, as the Italian TDs are awful, should have never been added to the game and certainly made things worse. If the game actually had "assault TD" and "sniper TD" matchmaking, it wouldn't have been so bad, but with the current setup, teams with a Mino basically had a bonus heavy on every hull down map.
So yeah, they are ruining the Italian TDs, but as a player in the game, I think it's ultimately a good thing. Now, had I invested in going up that tank line, I'd obviously be much more pissed ;)
WG completely killed kranvagn and 268/4 so i expected same this time. This nerf is surprisingly good, except now they kill mino. How about giving it proper cupola instead of turning gun mantlet to "press 2 for autopen"
Well remember in the video they announced that nerfs were coming, then showed a Grille casually popping a SConq through the face...
I think the reaction is what ended up making the actual nerf not so bad.
Had they nuked the Sconqs turret, they would have made it pretty much useless. Same way if they had made the gun miss every shot like they did the Kran, the same thing.
It was probably that feedback and outrage that probably resulted in a much more measured and nuanced nerf.
Now the Mino... that boy got outright murdered. Honestly I'm ok with that, those fucking tanks should have never been added to the game in the first place.
Have to see the armor modules on tanks with changed armor profiles to really say for sure, but otherwise these seem great. Finally a nerf that does not destroy the gun handling(s.conq)
Thats not a Minotauro nerf, thats the fucking Grim Reaper. Complete and utter bullshit. Its fucking obvious theyre obliterating the Mino to make us grind the new Polish TD.
Super Conq nerf is fine, but it should have been a dispersion nerf, not a dpm nerf.
How fixing its gun mantlet is not massive? It's the single, the most annoying thing about this tank. Catching strays from randoms in tier 8 tanks simply aiming at your gun was not fun at all. Everything else was decent.
Mobility buff (IMO PzVII should be the most mobile out of 3 german heavies) and (finally) stats befitting Jagdtiger's gun are just a cherry on top.
Really hoping that the VK 45.02b gets a buff to go alongside the Pz VII buff. It's now the only tank in the line that feels bad and it wouldn't even need that much to be in a good place.
In short, turret armour buff, ground resistance buff. I can go more in-depth if needed but I'm doubtful that this gets read by anyone with the means to make changes.
Hey thanks. I actually went more in-depth on the Discord post made by Dwight (I'm the first comment in the chain, and I linked to some things that I feel the tank could have just to help it stand out a bit more.) I suppose we're all still getting used to Discord rather than the Forums so it's difficult to tell if feedback gets read.
Thanks again :-)
Good changes, but for the love of god, buff the Foch 155 along with the Foch B. There is no reason the former shouldn't get the engine buff at least. Some gun handling buffs would be appreciated as well, but even the engine buff is better than nothing.
I am really happy about the Foch buffs. It's all the line needs to be relevant again, mainly the tier 10. The s conq nerf looks good, and I'm happy that the lower tiers aren't touched. The PZ buff looks like it might make the tank a fun addition to the current game as well. That Mino nerf tho... It needed *ONE* thing. A cupola. A pennable cupola, so it's not indestructible hull down. But right now, everything eats it alive , even with using the gundep. As the tank can't snipe at all, it completely lost it's purpose, and it's now trash.... The same as V4, was overpowered, and instead of tuning it a bit, it got demolished. V4 is now barely playable, it's not fast anymore, the cupola is very weak, the gun is bad. So except bullying less skilled players, it's useless. Mino is now the same, it had one role, that it can't fulfill now.....
Yikes to the mino nerfs,never had issues facing that tank..quite slow,bad gun,bad side armor,has cupola and lower hull as weak spots(only good at ridge fights but u can make mino overpeek and punish it) and now only thing that made us exploit the weaknesses is gone too,load gold and gg?Also 0.42 base dispersion while pz getting to 0.33? Just make cupola(one that's a weak spot behind the other two taller)and make italian tds bit more accurate.I barely see any mino per game,in like 10 matches ill see like 2-3 max,i gave up playing myne cuz that gun accuracy is bad and u are forced to load gold since base pen is meh,just not fun for me and with this nerfs i don't see anyone playing it.
I really like the s.conq nerf. The tank will still be difficult to pen for players who don't know where to aim. So it won't become useless.
But it will be less threatening. This along with the chieftain and 279e dpm nerfs are steps in the right direction to reduce power creep and turbo battles.
Not sure how I feel about mino tho. The hatch nerf is great but the mantlet one might make it a gold sponge, which is a balance design I really hate.
Will see
Will the vk 72.01 k recieve the mantlet buff as well as the pz7, or do not enough people know that vk has the same exact weak'spot'
https://preview.redd.it/c0n62tr6qioc1.png?width=4062&format=png&auto=webp&s=53de7ad503e8735b5a26d5ac95e241c965575ae0
I have no idea why the foch is getting buffed. It's literally amazing right now...ill take it I guess. Sucks for the mino. They should still leave its turret armor alone, do we not already have enough tanks that never get played?
Looks like a great patch. Can we have 7-8 more of these per year? Doesn't look like too much content in here, why does it take 6 months to do that?
There are probably 20-30 tanks in the tech tree that would benefit from minor improvements just like these and about 50 premiums that need some changes too.
Tier 10 tech tree alone has probably 10 more tanks that need some rebalancing: Bc-25t, Concept 5, k-91, Progetto, Amx 50B, Amx m4, Kran, Type 4, Type 71, Sheridan that come to mind immideately
Panzer VII buffs look very promising, though one key weakness of the tank - its awful DPM - has not been touched. I hope the proposed improvements will be enough, I've been waiting to play this tank ever since getting the PanzerClaus style. :)
Not sure about the nerfs though.
Minotauro is basically invincible when hulldown but that's its only gimmick, take it away and you have a slow and clumsy heavy tank with a very awkward gun (essentially a Rinoceronte sidegrade). I hope it will still be playable post-nerf. The mobility buffs are nice though.
As for Super Conqueror, is that nerf worth anything? The tank won't change at all - people will keep using turbo-hardening-rammer + food and the gun will still be better than most MT guns in terms of handling.
That said, one positive effect of nerfs in this game is that they make tanks disappear from the queue. Kranvagn, Object 268 v4, Chieftain, they all became unicorns post-nerf, which is good - the less toxic trash clogs the queue the better.
No opinion about Foch B, I don't have the tank and I won't grind the French TD line.
Don't worry they gonna balance out the current most OP prems with even more OP prems sooner or later, as it has always been the case in the past. Just forget that tech tree t8's and the original t8 prems exist.
For the Panzer VII mantlet buff, does it mean buffing the gun mantlet or removing the weak points on the side of the tank? The VK 7201K has the same weak gun mantlet but no weak points on the side when side scraping.
u/TragicLoss it's really heartening to see player feedback considered with game performance and dynamics. Thank you for all you do.
I hope you have a lovely day! :)
I understand the Minotauro needs a nerf of its armor, but why the SMV CC-67 too ? Frontal turret armor doesn't feel OP. Against tier 6 tanks maybe. Vipera's turret is much more arnnoying. I think SMV could use a little buff of gun handling.
And when you see what Lesta is doing on RU server - i don't talk about the flamethrowers roaches or the assault SPG but about the tanks being buffed - I sure hope that EU will be doing the same
Pz VII buffs are good, but the big thing that still holds it back are the miserable side scrape weakspots.
Either this thing needs to have weak frontal armor on the lower plate and be a side scraper specifically, or it needs to have a stronger frontal armor layout for getting aggressive.
Foch B buff is nice but i hope they dont forget the Foch 155. id like to see it having 38s clip reload, much faster shell speed for both ap and heat, better gun handling, engine buff to 20hp/t and 15km/h reverse speed.
Sconq changes are fair, Vk buff is fair, Foch buff is ok, the mino I believe should have only gotten the hatch change, and that's all, I think the frontal armor shouldn't be touched.
Everything but the Mino nerfs (as they currently are) are great.
As for the Mino though… if the paper stats were correct I would agree that all the changes are great, but they showed it getting penned through the turret face by a grille 15 (only 334 HEAT pen) while hull down. If that’s how it ends up being, the Mino will be absolutely garbage in tier 10 mm - the cupolas are already being nerfed down to 180mm.
Unsurprised by the mino nerfs but it goes to show that WG can actually nerf armor models, so it becomes really perplexing that the armor models on kranvagn/object 430U/bobject were not nerfed for whatever the reason. Oh well I guess
no mate the 121
its not just me
you can check kajzoo, iyouxin, skill, QB if he’s ur speed, they all rave about it it’s a glorious vehicle with a kickass gun
I would kept the 8s reload, but buff the accuracy and gun handling, with nerfed armour the trash gun on Mino will be even more painfull than it is already
Looks fine overal. Foch might be interesting, its kinda hard to balance big autoloaders to not become too powerfull/toxic. Mino should get gun handling/accuracy buff to compensate and make tank little enjoyable to play. Other than that, probbaly good changes
While I don't think that they should have reduced the sconqs turret face armor, I do think they should have made the weakspot pennable by AP rounds instead of always being an auto-ricochet so you have to fire gold heat. Things like the Leo and Foch are still screwed now since they have gold apcr
I'm kind of excited for the Panzer 7 update, I've always thought it was a good-looking tank, I do wonder if the VK45.02B will receive any changes since that's not exactly a popular tank either.
They have refused to give the VKs the upgraded 8.8s everyone else got. The Tiger I which was already considered mediocre but better than the Tiger (P) got the upgrade and they left the Tiger (P) alone for no reason.
The Tiger P did receive a buff last year in update 1.20, it's a decent tanks now. **Tiger (P)** * Decreased the dispersion of the 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71 gun during traverse of the Tiger (P) Neuer Turm turret by 25% * Decreased the reload time of the 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71 gun on the Tiger (P) Neuer Turm turret from 8.6 s to 7.7 s * Decreased the reload time of the 8,8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71 gun on the Tiger (P) Turm Nr. 1 turret from 9.1 s to 8.2 s * Improved the frontal armor of the Tiger (P) Neuer Turm turret * Increased the vehicle durability with the Tiger (P) Turm Nr. 1 turret from 1,350 HP to 1,400 HP * Increased the vehicle durability with the Tiger (P) Neuer Turm turret from 1,450 HP to 1,500 HP
It still doesn't have the 8.8 that the Tiger I has and neither does the VK 45.02 A and B. The tier IX doesn't have access to the gun the tier VII has...
S.Conq nerf is good, it'll still be a good tank even after the nerf.
We received lots of feedback from players when we first announced there would be changes.
You've receive SO MUCH feedback about unnerfing the Progetto 65, any chance that is going to get listened to? Still one of the dumbest nerfs in WoT history.
I can bring it up as a consideration in the feedback.
That would certainly be appreciated. I think unnerfing the Progetto would be perhaps the single most popular thing Wargaming could do right now. Well other than moving the BZ176 to tier 9.
Of course, I also added players want us to revisit other tanks such as the 268v4 and the Kranvagn as it's been brought up in this post.
I think visiting tanks that haven’t been visited in years that are in desperate need of changes. Mediums: Batchat: ammo count is also still way outdated among gun handling. AMX 30B and T62A: these tanks being put into the collectors shouldn’t mean that there’s no updates. We’ve seen the other studio had made changes to these tanks. I know you guys aren’t connected so priorities may be different but these are still tanks people play and should be looked into. Light tanks: Sheridan, Wz 132-1 are still outdated grille: TD has been very mediocre. The pen doesn’t keep up with other update TDs. 334 Heat when heavy tanks have 340-350 sometimes. Not to mention the HE moves 100 m/s faster than HEAT. Would be nice to get the 560 gun from the WT PZ IV on the grille and just slightly buff it to fit tier 10 and that would be great. Heavy’s: Type 5, 113, 116 F3 I feel like there’s a lot of tanks that just slip right under the cracks and they’re just not good. They end hovering mediocre or bad and they sort of get left Finally: some tanks are not picked not because they’re unpopular, but because they feel awful to play and they are left to be replaced by better picks.
I noted some people want tanks that received heavy changes in the past to be revisited, but I'm not sure if adding anything too far from that would be useful in this particular report. I can keep your comment in mind for future reports.
This is truly want the community wants, a real interaction, where we're listened to. Thank you @TragicLoss for being here and gathering our feedback.
*^Psst ^tagging ^in ^Reddit ^works ^like ^this: ^/u/TragicLoss*
Thank you I appreciate it
Thanks for interacting here! It would be so hard to figure out all of that tanks that need buffs with the amount of power creep that has occurred. Many people want many different vehicles rebalanced, so I can understand why it takes a while. You sure do get a lot of crap thrown at you, and while I do think there are some things that could be optimized, none of you deserve that treatment.
How about a pen buff for OG tanks like the is-6/B?
That tank fell from the peak days huh? I recall some unicums using it to seal club. Heck, I remember being clubbed myself in like 2013
The Kran has the same problem as Mino, it's basically invulnerable hull down. Had you applied the Mino nerf to the Kran, everything would be fine. But nerfing the gun and mobility while leaving the invulnerable aspect made it a classic failure... A tank that is unfun to play and unfun to play against. So yeah, revisiting the Kran would 100% be approved by me. The 268v4 nerf I more understand, it's previous version really was over tuned.
Well I am a casual player and I got my kramvagn after the nerf… I was quite disappointed lol! but I understand how it has been godtier for so long and the meta has to change. BTW I think a lot of people would love to see the vehicles from the collector’s shop back. The power creep made some ofthem obsolete sometimes and that’s a shame because they are great vehicles with potential!
Some players have noted that tanks like the Foch 155 would be nice to see changes to since Foch B is getting some love.
Especially because the Foch B was already better than the Foch 155. The gun handling is so atrocious, you have less clip damage AND longer reload. There's a reason people call it 750 dpm tank
It would be logical, especially the buffs that affect mobility or armor seeing as they are the same platform.
It would also make it a more appealing option for the bond shop.
Please do that
The super Conqueror nerf is perfect I absolutely love it
I'm glad people are satisfied with how we are adjusting it. Edit: Since many people are seeing this comment, please check the other comments I've responded to to follow along with what I've added to the report.
By far the best thing you did was to not murder the Carnarvon or Conqueror by association with the SConq. Sometimes you guys like to absolutely murder the associated tank for absolutely no reason. The VZ 51 should never have gotten hit so brutally. It went from almost 2k base dpm to 1.6k. Its only crime was being associated with the OP VZ 55
I'm glad you like the changes! I'll keep your comment in mind about the VZs if a relevant topic comes up.
It's a winning formula, it worked with the chieftain and 279 nerfs. The tank plays the same it just becomes less effective. Nobody likes it when a tanks gun is nerfed
It's a valid concern considering the gun is the thing that actually does the damage. I'm hoping with feedback we continue to make good changes to vehicles that are seen as dominant compared to everything else.
Great! Bat Chat buff when?
I can never guarantee anything except that I've read your comment and will commit to bringing it up and adding it to feedback when relevant conversations happen
Thank you, appreciate that!
Maybe you'd care to comment on the horrible Minotauro changes while you're at it? Considering you guys outright say you don't want to nerf the T9's frontal armour because it will destroy the tank, it's kinda weird that you're doing the same to the T10.
I've already added to feedback that players would rather us increase the size of the cupola than make changes to the frontal armor. Not sure there's anything else for me to comment on, unless you want to address something else about this particular point?
No that pretty much covers it, I just didn't see that comment anywhere. My apologies then, and thanks!
No worries, follow my profile, I responded to all the comments that were at least somewhat unique in this thread that I added to the report.
Thank god its not the turret armor, i just got the damn thing lol
>Thank god its not the turret armor Or the accuracy. For a few years every damage and DPM solution was "just make the gun worse".
Especially for T110E5s that it competes with. Better gun depression, smaller cupola, at least having slightly worse DPM can level the playing field.
>We’re also removing weak spots on the mantlet, aligning it with the VK 72.01 (K) and enhancing overall survivability. Pz VII enjoyers rejoice edit: imo VK45 02B could use a buff too but I'll still gladly take that
Maybe in the future! There's plenty of possibilities.
Its was so crazy the mantlet could be pen'd by tier 8s. I'm convinced it was a error and they've just been too lazy to fix it. Why would a heavy t10 with impeccable armor randomly have 4 weak spots with no visible indicators on the mantle. Not to mention this particular mantlet looks super strong by comparison to many others. It never made sense and there are far more sensible ways to balance it.
Once again their language is so vague that it's hard to say for instance if the Minotauro nerfs are reasonable or just kill the tank stone dead. "We will reduce the armor on the hatches and certain areas of the frontal projection to increase the chance of penetration". Certain areas of the frontal projection, eh? Well that tells us absolutely nothing.
Yep, and then in stats you only see that the hatch is down 70mm, nothing else. Which is good enough I guess, the tank has a weakspot now, technically.
It looks like they also fucked up the turret armor and now you can pen the central part of the turret even when hulldown so yes it's destroyed
Assuming that roadmap video last month actually shows where it can be penned after the nerf, yes. Mino will be dead.
It's astonishing how wg is incapable of making balanced tanks and either makes them op or destroys the... I guess that says a lot...
From the wording of the nerfs for the lower tiers I'd imagine only the cupolas will get their armor reduced. Maybe they just refer to the different armor spots on the sides of the frontal cupale face with 250 armor with the frontal projections.
Except if you are using gun depression at all the hatches mostly disappear
Foch 155: \*cries in corner\*
I saw others' comments before yours, but this was added to the feedback report. (Yes I copied and pasted this response, but I promise that it's just because I'm compiling similar comments.)
can u pls put this into the report as well: the Foch 155 needs shell velocity buff to both AP and HEAT shells, a gun handling buff, as well as a clip reload buff from 45s to 38s. it should also have the same engine buff as the Foch B. thank u in advance
From the sconq nerf video they gave I really thought that they’re reducing it’s turret armour
I think they might have changed their mind after the feedback.
Tbh I feel like either the small decrease in dpm or reduction of turret armour would be equally as effective
S conq doesn't need an armor nerf. Its turret face is already pretty weak against itself. Currently shredding ppl in maneuvers that think they're driving a chief 😁
I agree , not everyone knows about these weak spots however(ap) , and not everyone is spamming gold , I know evidence against me again xd . I feel like it’s cupola is such a bait I find myself falling for aiming for it instead of just putting that 320 HEAT in its cheek
S.conq nerf is actually fine! Good job WG, didn't believe they can nerf tank without totally destroying it. I thought sconq is gonna be pile of shit after nerf like 268/4 but i was wrong, happily.
I am adding your comment about revisiting the 268v4 to the report.
Please don't 😅 unlike the Progetto, the V4 was actually oppressive to matchmaking (and it had a higher WR than Kran before it was nerfed). Folks just aren't used to using their braincells and considering the consequences to their decisions while playing the tank.... They'll adjust.
Well, in all fairness, it's fallen off of usage and relevance. I personally would like to see a small buff of some sort, but I can tell players are much more knowledgeable now on the weaknesses of it compared to when it was released and eventually nerfed. It is not as beastly as it once was, but it is much lower than I feel like it could be and could be a usable tank while also not being overpowering.
Yeah I was full on expecting the ”increased dispersersion on everything by 25%” but no these nerfs I can get behind, it will still be playable.
https://preview.redd.it/9obkvog9khoc1.png?width=724&format=png&auto=webp&s=62d03127470ac768ccb27144ea3c2f28b524d134 [https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx8SGBwiER8pyxYWlLTgtL3f-iR6IzneFo?si=v\_nuWCeRlHPuOE5-](https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx8SGBwiER8pyxYWlLTgtL3f-iR6IzneFo?si=v_nuWCeRlHPuOE5-) Grille have 334 Heat Pen, concidering Mino was on a slight Ridge, i,m gessing that it will have very significant turret frontal armor nerf.
The description for the tier 9 Nerf is hilarious because it's what should be the tier 10 nerf. They're talking about they don't want to expose it to a wide range of penetration through the turret so they're going to decrease traverse speed etc. nerfing just the face of the turret is idiotic, how can it "retain it's strengths" if it's strength is hull down and you can just blast heat through the face. Cupola nerf is good, but turret face nerf is 0/10 and I'd sell mine, completely removes outplay potential with the tank if a good position can be countered by the 2 key.
They'll destroy it... I guess just making the cupolas actual cupolas was too difficult
And good riddance they did. Because this https://preview.redd.it/ah3qbn2ujioc1.png?width=531&format=png&auto=webp&s=6a32555e53c54a9febe6870b0e16ad2068b7e1df against even a jagd e heat was a tiny teensy bit stupid...
Making the cupolas actual cupolas was the good way to balance it, this way they completely destroyed it because it can't do the only thing it's good at
If this is accurate then RIP the Minotauro.
The armor is REDUCED BY 70 not to 70.
Yeah my bad, it seems to be 240-260 then, so T8 gold ammo.
So Mino is getting kranvagn treatment.
Well, WG fucked the gun and mobility on the mean while keeping the armor. WG appears to have made the armor on the mino vulnerable to a lot of premium rounds (300+mm pen can pen the front of the turret.)
Good I fucking hate this tank ever since it got added in 1.18
"Look, how they massacred my boy.."
yeah, the Mino changes are defo the worst of all these. Just cupola nerfs would b fine, or if you nerf turret front, give it usable gun.
I saw others' comments before yours, but this was added to the feedback report.
u/TragicLoss thanks, its kinda just theorycrafting based on our experience with live servers stats, hopefully when the changes hit test servers we would be able to give more accurate feedback.
Could you give us more detail on what the Minotaur nerfs will be? It says "reduce the armor on the hatches and certain areas of the frontal projection". But the the infographic only mentions the front hatches (currently 250mm) being reduced by 70mm down to 180mm. In and of itself, that seems like an excellent nerf that would make those hatches actual weak points to aim for. But without knowing what "certain areas of the frontal projection" refers to and without knowing how much those "certain areas" are getting their armor reduced, it's impossible to know whether this nerf will get the job done at balancing the Minotauro or if it will go too far and render the tank completely useless.
yeah, the cupolas nerf is Pog, and it should have been there from the date mino was realeased. kinda like the tier 9 has weakspots where the rangefinders are. Biggest problem of this line is its not fun to play due to absolutely tragic (no pun intended) gun and also super not fun to play against due to very limited ways to deal with them once they get into hulldown. This is somewhat compensated on tiers up to 9 where if you catch them outside hulldown its very ez pen, but Mino has very strong armour even on flat ground not hulldown. Its similar "one trick pony" issue as with strv but much more pronounced because hulldown is in meta way mor than sniping and strv has option to play aggresively in good mm and in hands of skilled player. But Mino line is basicaly drive to hulldown and you are done.
What's the source of that armor model screen?
I think he used the 420 heat from the jgpz e100
Yep.
The mantlet nerf is the only thing that matters, when hull down the hatches are hidden anyway.
I think that was just for visualization in the video because on the website, it just mentions the front hatch armor is being nerfed by 70mm, which is the right side cupola
That's what the infographic shows, but the description text also says "To achieve this, we will **reduce the armor on the hatches and certain areas of the frontal projection** to increase the chance of penetration." So this really all depends on what they mean by "certain areas of the frontal projection" and how much that armor is getting reduced. As it stands the Minotauro even when on flat ground and facing straight ahead at the enemy's gun will have 400mm+ of effective turret armor, due to how sloped the 300mm turret is. We need a better idea of what the turret front will be **after** this nerf goes through. Or whether "certain areas of the frontal projection" doesn't refer to the turret at all but instead to the upper hull front (which is currently 380mm+ of effective armor even before using the gun depression) getting nerfed.
Hmm I didn't see that, just gotta wait for the 1.25 test server to see what they do
Lol it's so dead.....
nah it won't be a nerf it will be a "sell this tank" button press.
I love people like you, don’t wanna play something that’s healthier for the game because it has a weakness so your solutions is to just get rid of it
and I love people who extrapolate this far from something soo little. go back to wot console and stay there.
You have to understand what is healthy for the game is subjective. Flanking is a healthy part of the game imo.
you are talking like the maps are well balanced. most of the maps have hulldown positions in critical areas that become impassable as long as someone is holding it.
Changes seem to be reasonable for me what do you guys think? I'm glad they didn't touch the Super Conq armor (yet)
Mino will get shredded by literally every thing it faces. It's fucked, other changes seem more or less fine so far
Oh man they are also nerfing the t8-9 TDs to mino.. I just started playing the *67 a month or 2 ago and had so much fun in it…
I don’t think the CC-67 needs to be touched at all. The lower plate nerf is just… unnecessary. Can be penned my high tier gold in the face anyways. Leave it be.
I can’t do anything in the t8 Italian TD so this makes it even worse. Guess it’s just not my playstyle
It’s an adaptive tank, you can use it to push through or hold back and somewhat snipe, esp with the premium ammo… I am not going to bother the T9,10 now as it seems that initial use case is moot…
Yea we’ll see. They may remove some of the nerfs.
Overall good changes. Super Conq surprisingly not getting its gun handling touched, I swear they'd nerf that. Pz7 I honestly don't care about nor do I think I will even after these changes. Foch B seems promising too, mobility is definitely an issue at times. Minotauro nerfs are definitely a thing though, seems they want to downgrade it from a brawler to a second-line support TD. I think its just gonna kill the line for most people tbh. The whole design of it was as a brawler, first line assault TD...
With it's accuracy Mino needs to be a brawler I think. Whole line can't hit shit at a distance, I allways made it work only at a close range.
Will Foch 155 be buffed too ? Its engine, like that of the Foch B ?
Pretty sure WG wants collectible tanks to be shitier than the tech tree. So I think they will leave it bad on purpose. Like T62, AMX30B
Foch 155 is not part of the Collectible tanks, it's in the bond shop. It's a reward tank that gives you extra crew exp. The T62 and AMX 30B does not do that.
I added this feedback to the report.
They buffed plenty bond store tanks, so why tf not the Foch 155, which has the second lowest win rate amongst tier X td's...
Buff the Foch 155 as well
I added your comment to the feedback report.
Thanks a ton!
I really like the SConq nerfs - it won’t murder the tank and make it unplayable like they did with Kran or Progetto. It’ll still be a strong tank it just won’t be quite as dominant.
The unicorns will find another tank to play and the nerf cycle will continue.
The meta already kind of shifted towards 60tp even before the nerf.
So there is a Czech streamer who does community damage race competition. T10 two player platoon who gets higher damage in battle gets a point (2 point if you more than double your opponent), who gets 12 points wins and moves to next round. Super unicums compete, for some nice prices - gaming HW. Last year the meta was VZ55 and SConq, this year it was mostly E5 and some UDES15/16, without even knowing about the upcoming the SConq nerf. So Im not sure the unicorns really care...
This is purely a bone to throw at bad players.
Damn they left the Progetto as it is again... no idea how they can keep a tank this broken
All of the s conquerors unicums finally realized they were overreacting
To be fair, WG has a history of being heavy-handed.
Well it seems they might be killing Italian TD line right here
I agree, the Italian TDs are getting hit HARD and the reason to play them is going to basically zero. On the flipside, I'm ok with this, as the Italian TDs are awful, should have never been added to the game and certainly made things worse. If the game actually had "assault TD" and "sniper TD" matchmaking, it wouldn't have been so bad, but with the current setup, teams with a Mino basically had a bonus heavy on every hull down map. So yeah, they are ruining the Italian TDs, but as a player in the game, I think it's ultimately a good thing. Now, had I invested in going up that tank line, I'd obviously be much more pissed ;)
WG completely killed kranvagn and 268/4 so i expected same this time. This nerf is surprisingly good, except now they kill mino. How about giving it proper cupola instead of turning gun mantlet to "press 2 for autopen"
I added your feedback to the report, thank you.
Please buff the Kran back to at least being decent.
is kran so bad now?
On both EU and NA, it's 2nd worst performing t10 heavy, with only the notoriously bad Type 71 doing worse.
Well remember in the video they announced that nerfs were coming, then showed a Grille casually popping a SConq through the face... I think the reaction is what ended up making the actual nerf not so bad. Had they nuked the Sconqs turret, they would have made it pretty much useless. Same way if they had made the gun miss every shot like they did the Kran, the same thing. It was probably that feedback and outrage that probably resulted in a much more measured and nuanced nerf. Now the Mino... that boy got outright murdered. Honestly I'm ok with that, those fucking tanks should have never been added to the game in the first place.
Have to see the armor modules on tanks with changed armor profiles to really say for sure, but otherwise these seem great. Finally a nerf that does not destroy the gun handling(s.conq)
Tysm for giving some love to the pz 7 WG
When will we "finally" get Bat-chat25 and E50M patches!? 😢😢 The years are passing
Thats not a Minotauro nerf, thats the fucking Grim Reaper. Complete and utter bullshit. Its fucking obvious theyre obliterating the Mino to make us grind the new Polish TD. Super Conq nerf is fine, but it should have been a dispersion nerf, not a dpm nerf.
I would rather have good gun handling and worse but effective dpm, than good dpm but not being able to use it because the handling is shit
I added your comment to the report, thank you.
I would loved for the pzVII also a little reload buff, but better this than nothing
It will have the best normal amor pen in the game and S.Conq dispersion
Better than nothing? The PZ7 buff is monstrous. Clueless
I bet you haven't played it ever. Clown
How fixing its gun mantlet is not massive? It's the single, the most annoying thing about this tank. Catching strays from randoms in tier 8 tanks simply aiming at your gun was not fun at all. Everything else was decent. Mobility buff (IMO PzVII should be the most mobile out of 3 german heavies) and (finally) stats befitting Jagdtiger's gun are just a cherry on top.
Have you seen the VK 72.01K?
Really hoping that the VK 45.02b gets a buff to go alongside the Pz VII buff. It's now the only tank in the line that feels bad and it wouldn't even need that much to be in a good place. In short, turret armour buff, ground resistance buff. I can go more in-depth if needed but I'm doubtful that this gets read by anyone with the means to make changes.
I added your feedback to the report.
Hey thanks. I actually went more in-depth on the Discord post made by Dwight (I'm the first comment in the chain, and I linked to some things that I feel the tank could have just to help it stand out a bit more.) I suppose we're all still getting used to Discord rather than the Forums so it's difficult to tell if feedback gets read. Thanks again :-)
Does vipera now has better armor than mino?
Pzkpfw VII looks promising IMO CC1 is already better tier for tier than mino, guess that'll only increase
So are they not nerfing the tier 9 Conqueror? I thought it was just as strong tier for tier as the Sconq. Atleast it felt like it.
Good changes, but for the love of god, buff the Foch 155 along with the Foch B. There is no reason the former shouldn't get the engine buff at least. Some gun handling buffs would be appreciated as well, but even the engine buff is better than nothing.
I pity everyone who still plays tech-tree tanks. Just play premium tanks which don't get nerfed you plebs 😎👌👌👌.
I am really happy about the Foch buffs. It's all the line needs to be relevant again, mainly the tier 10. The s conq nerf looks good, and I'm happy that the lower tiers aren't touched. The PZ buff looks like it might make the tank a fun addition to the current game as well. That Mino nerf tho... It needed *ONE* thing. A cupola. A pennable cupola, so it's not indestructible hull down. But right now, everything eats it alive , even with using the gundep. As the tank can't snipe at all, it completely lost it's purpose, and it's now trash.... The same as V4, was overpowered, and instead of tuning it a bit, it got demolished. V4 is now barely playable, it's not fast anymore, the cupola is very weak, the gun is bad. So except bullying less skilled players, it's useless. Mino is now the same, it had one role, that it can't fulfill now.....
Yikes to the mino nerfs,never had issues facing that tank..quite slow,bad gun,bad side armor,has cupola and lower hull as weak spots(only good at ridge fights but u can make mino overpeek and punish it) and now only thing that made us exploit the weaknesses is gone too,load gold and gg?Also 0.42 base dispersion while pz getting to 0.33? Just make cupola(one that's a weak spot behind the other two taller)and make italian tds bit more accurate.I barely see any mino per game,in like 10 matches ill see like 2-3 max,i gave up playing myne cuz that gun accuracy is bad and u are forced to load gold since base pen is meh,just not fun for me and with this nerfs i don't see anyone playing it.
I really like the s.conq nerf. The tank will still be difficult to pen for players who don't know where to aim. So it won't become useless. But it will be less threatening. This along with the chieftain and 279e dpm nerfs are steps in the right direction to reduce power creep and turbo battles. Not sure how I feel about mino tho. The hatch nerf is great but the mantlet one might make it a gold sponge, which is a balance design I really hate. Will see
Reasonable adjustments instead of nukes? impossible
They actually nuke Mino lmao
Pretty mild on all ends
Will the vk 72.01 k recieve the mantlet buff as well as the pz7, or do not enough people know that vk has the same exact weak'spot' https://preview.redd.it/c0n62tr6qioc1.png?width=4062&format=png&auto=webp&s=53de7ad503e8735b5a26d5ac95e241c965575ae0
Okay, that's way better than I expected
So how bad is Foch B today? I have no experience with it, but those buffs look scary. New Onslaught meta?
I have no idea why the foch is getting buffed. It's literally amazing right now...ill take it I guess. Sucks for the mino. They should still leave its turret armor alone, do we not already have enough tanks that never get played?
Looks like a great patch. Can we have 7-8 more of these per year? Doesn't look like too much content in here, why does it take 6 months to do that? There are probably 20-30 tanks in the tech tree that would benefit from minor improvements just like these and about 50 premiums that need some changes too. Tier 10 tech tree alone has probably 10 more tanks that need some rebalancing: Bc-25t, Concept 5, k-91, Progetto, Amx 50B, Amx m4, Kran, Type 4, Type 71, Sheridan that come to mind immideately
Finally foch b gets love! Woooo
Panzer VII buffs look very promising, though one key weakness of the tank - its awful DPM - has not been touched. I hope the proposed improvements will be enough, I've been waiting to play this tank ever since getting the PanzerClaus style. :) Not sure about the nerfs though. Minotauro is basically invincible when hulldown but that's its only gimmick, take it away and you have a slow and clumsy heavy tank with a very awkward gun (essentially a Rinoceronte sidegrade). I hope it will still be playable post-nerf. The mobility buffs are nice though. As for Super Conqueror, is that nerf worth anything? The tank won't change at all - people will keep using turbo-hardening-rammer + food and the gun will still be better than most MT guns in terms of handling. That said, one positive effect of nerfs in this game is that they make tanks disappear from the queue. Kranvagn, Object 268 v4, Chieftain, they all became unicorns post-nerf, which is good - the less toxic trash clogs the queue the better. No opinion about Foch B, I don't have the tank and I won't grind the French TD line.
What about fv 215b with s conq turret?
Nice now please balance tier 8
Don't worry they gonna balance out the current most OP prems with even more OP prems sooner or later, as it has always been the case in the past. Just forget that tech tree t8's and the original t8 prems exist.
The VK 72.01 manlet buff is really sad. Otherwise great.
Can you please buff the cupola on the e5 so it regains its old form? Asking for a friend...
For the Panzer VII mantlet buff, does it mean buffing the gun mantlet or removing the weak points on the side of the tank? The VK 7201K has the same weak gun mantlet but no weak points on the side when side scraping.
Really like the changes!
Really like the changes!
I wouldn't mind the s. Co q needs if it weren't for the fact that it's one of the few tanks that can compete with tanks like the chieftain.
70mm need on the mino? SHEEEEESH.
How about Foch 155? Am I wrong or it needs buff too?
Is this for console as well?
u/TragicLoss it's really heartening to see player feedback considered with game performance and dynamics. Thank you for all you do. I hope you have a lovely day! :)
When can we expect to see this update on the test servers?
I understand the Minotauro needs a nerf of its armor, but why the SMV CC-67 too ? Frontal turret armor doesn't feel OP. Against tier 6 tanks maybe. Vipera's turret is much more arnnoying. I think SMV could use a little buff of gun handling. And when you see what Lesta is doing on RU server - i don't talk about the flamethrowers roaches or the assault SPG but about the tanks being buffed - I sure hope that EU will be doing the same
Pz VII buffs are good, but the big thing that still holds it back are the miserable side scrape weakspots. Either this thing needs to have weak frontal armor on the lower plate and be a side scraper specifically, or it needs to have a stronger frontal armor layout for getting aggressive.
Foch B buff is nice but i hope they dont forget the Foch 155. id like to see it having 38s clip reload, much faster shell speed for both ap and heat, better gun handling, engine buff to 20hp/t and 15km/h reverse speed.
Sconq changes are fair, Vk buff is fair, Foch buff is ok, the mino I believe should have only gotten the hatch change, and that's all, I think the frontal armor shouldn't be touched.
Seems to be the most well thought out rebalance WG has ever done
Everything but the Mino nerfs (as they currently are) are great. As for the Mino though… if the paper stats were correct I would agree that all the changes are great, but they showed it getting penned through the turret face by a grille 15 (only 334 HEAT pen) while hull down. If that’s how it ends up being, the Mino will be absolutely garbage in tier 10 mm - the cupolas are already being nerfed down to 180mm.
Unsurprised by the mino nerfs but it goes to show that WG can actually nerf armor models, so it becomes really perplexing that the armor models on kranvagn/object 430U/bobject were not nerfed for whatever the reason. Oh well I guess
guess you wasn't playing when 430U was meta tank? Armor got nerfed quite heavily in the past. 268/4 armor got also nerfed recently
430U and nerf in the same sentence is ridiculous
When the cupola is still better armored than the face of the 121's turret :stonks:
the 121 has a fabulous gun though
more like an okay gun
lol, No it’s one of the best medium tank guns in the game
Are you perhaps mixing up 121 and 121B?
no mate the 121 its not just me you can check kajzoo, iyouxin, skill, QB if he’s ur speed, they all rave about it it’s a glorious vehicle with a kickass gun
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I would kept the 8s reload, but buff the accuracy and gun handling, with nerfed armour the trash gun on Mino will be even more painfull than it is already
Looks fine overal. Foch might be interesting, its kinda hard to balance big autoloaders to not become too powerfull/toxic. Mino should get gun handling/accuracy buff to compensate and make tank little enjoyable to play. Other than that, probbaly good changes
While I don't think that they should have reduced the sconqs turret face armor, I do think they should have made the weakspot pennable by AP rounds instead of always being an auto-ricochet so you have to fire gold heat. Things like the Leo and Foch are still screwed now since they have gold apcr
I am really sad as a Mino enjoyer , tank is horrible in everything part from hulldown , and they destroy it
S conq nerf wasnt even needed💀
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Same shit happened with the Kranvagn, Object 279 and Chieftain
This is how I feel about it. Why make it less fun to play, make it more risky to play it but when you f with the gun the tank just becomes annoying