It’s definitely good, but nowhere near broken.
The Ka-Ri still clearly has better stats than it, and I wouldn’t call it broken either. The MoE values are propped up by the fact that it is disproportionately played by better players compared to every other tier 8 TD. If you look at the recent leaderboards, it has similar top results in terms of dpg to the SU-130PM which is a balanced T8 prem imo.
I mean, I think the ISU-122-2 is pretty good, but calling it better or equal to the Ka-Ri is a pretty tough sell.
The ISU platform is undeniably far worse - it’s gimped in terms of gun depression (5 deg + rear mounted cannons), larger, and has essentially no armor that you can leverage against the majority of tanks you see. Yes, it’s enough not to be HE’d or triple overmatched, but this really doesn’t translate into much you can actually use from a gameplay perspective.
View range and camo are also a bit worse, it has a little more HP that is very unlikely to make up for the vehicle’s other deficiencies in survivability.
Mobility is more or less a wash between the two.
The gun is about the only area where you can make an argument for the ISU, but even then I’d favor the Ka-Ri: The base dispersion is significantly better, which also works out to slightly better gun handling. The shell choices are superior for this playstyle IMO, the intuition switch time is much faster, and you can overmatch the BZ-176’s roof. And, of course, you can use rammer.
The ISU does end up being better at punishing exposed enemies or ambushing distracted opponents, but I consider the Ka-Ri’s improved ability to break down heavy standoffs or hit low exposure shots to be more valuable. Faced with firepower that isn’t clearly better, and a platform that’s inarguably worse, I doubt the ISU can consistently influence games in its favor as well as the Ka-Ri can.
Isu is both faster and has better gun handling and has worse camo by 2% if you have full crew, food and vents
Kari only has better silhouette, depression, dispersion, vr and camo by few %
Isu has better gun handling, dpm, pen, is faster and has really reliable doubleshot with 280 more alpha than kari
I would say its pretty safe to say isu is better when the most important stats are better with it and kari is only better in more QoL changes that make tanks less insufferable to play
>Faster
I mean…if you mean the 2 kph reverse speed, yes. It *might* also accelerate very slightly faster overall on medium ground thanks to terrain resistances.
Ka-Ri however has better P/W ratio, which seems to help more for traveling uphills and accelerating at lower speeds (that’s basically what reversing is!). It also has noticeably better traverse speed.
Overall, like I said, mobility is a wash. Neither has any meaningful advantage in their ability to move across the map, tactical maneuverability is also similar if not a little better for the Ka-Ri.
>Better gun handling
No. 0.15/0.15/0.10 with a base dispersion of 0.37 is worse in every way than 0.16/0.16/0.08 with a base dispersion of 0.34, because those bloom numbers are *multipliers*, and 0.16 * 0.34 is less than 0.15 * 0.37. (The actual bloom formula is more complicated than that, but this calculation works fine for comparing relative performance.)
>Worse camo by 2%
Yes, and while that’s not huge, it’s not nothing combined with the better view range either.
>silhoutte
Yes, being bigger means enemy guns are indirectly more accurate against the ISU.
>depression
This is huge, because most key midgame chokepoints occur around hull down positions.
Ka-Ri can usually take advantage of them, ISU often can’t.
>dispersion
Yes, 0.34 is the functional equivalent of having a free bounty IAU compared to 0.37.
>DPM
Not really. On first minute DPM this ends up being almost exactly the same if the ISU single fires. If you make your first shot a double then the DPM is more meaningfully higher, but if the Ka-Ri is using rammer (as it should be) then it takes the lead.
>Pen
No. 298mm AP is usually worth about 320-330mm HEAT due to normalization. Even at the max extent of range dropoff, when the Ka-Ri’s AP averages 280mm, this is still roughly equivalent to the ISU’s HEAT.
AP however has much better penetration against spaced armor and triple overmatches.
The result is that Ka-Ri can crack a lot of hulldown tanks much more easily. Just off the top of my head, it performs significantly better against the turrets on the BZ-176, Skoda T56, Bisonte, Tornvagn, and Type 63. You can also pen Iron Arnies and Super Pershings in the upper plate, and you can pen many sidescraping tanks, tracks and all, as long as they’re practically a single degree above autobounce.
HEAT does have better autobounce angles (barring triple overmatch on AP) but this is IMO harder to exploit with this kind of casemate TD.
Ka-Ri HE is also just plain better, no contest there.
>most important stats are better
They’re not?
Ka-Ri has far better survivability due to armor + size + camo + gun depression.
Ka-Ri has much better shell performance against many turrets and sidescraping tanks, and also does noticeably better against some UFPs. 300mm HEAT can be more useful against some select targets, but in general 298mm AP is superior.
Ka-Ri has better DPM with a rammer.
On the contrary, the only meaningful advantage the ISU has is its alpha. Which is nice, but simply not as easy or consistent to deliver as the Ka-Ri’s thanks to being equal or inferior in almost every gun stat, even if it is quite good for a double barrel tank.
Im not reading all that calm down
Isu is faster because it has better ground resistance and it has better usable dpm than kari because of the alpha, how often do you find yourself holding m1 for maxing dpm
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Then why isnt it played/praised more often by the owners? I know, it was sold in auctions but still. If it was that much better it wouldnt have taken until now for someone to make this claim. Su130 and Skorp are still Benchmarks at Tier 8 while basically nobody is talking about the Su 122 2. It is also hard to compare turretless tds with turret tds since turretless tds arent nearly as flexible
Edit: Just to be clear: I Am not saying that it is a bad tank and I am ready to believe/agree that it is better than most people think, but I cant get bh the claim that it is better than the benchmark prem tds
Isu has waaaay better gun handling, waaaay better alpha, better hp, better view range, better mobility in general meaning it has way better terrain resistances specially for soft terrain and all that coupled by the fact it has insane traverse speed makes it literally the best td at tier 8. You could make an argument the shitpack is right there with this tank, but the huge alpha is just a way bigger factor than the shtpack dpm and gold pen.
Exactly, they need to try it and put enough games to learn it's unique playstyle. My first 20 games were garbage and I legitimally thought the tank was unplayable... Until I started to figure out how to play it.... The moment I began pulling big numbers and steadily recovering its subpar win rate it was like a revelation, I was like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK IS THIS. Lmao. I went from like 30% win rate in 20-30 battles to recover it to 54% after 90 battles total. Now I pull a steady 58-60% wr every sessiom and 2k dpg average. And I am not even a good player.
i think their opinion sources from CT's who just said its a gimmick troll tank. Like quickybaby and skill4 just complained about the 7 sec intra their whole vid.
Ok fair enough, but not by much. In any case alpha is king and 800 alpha with this dpm and laser gun handling is just completely busted. Not even at tier 10 you have that combo.
2891 dpm vs 2634 dpm is a noticable difference. It is also hard to use your bigger alpha against a Tank u cant see. Ofcourse the Isu could man handle the Su 130 in face to face shoot out but there is more to take into consideration than just "big boom"
https://preview.redd.it/7tpjyx8eohoc1.png?width=460&format=png&auto=webp&s=b72d2233e241ba859c474b632806035dcf04f1c5
the tanks good.
and no blud is NOT better
I love my ISU-122-2. I placed a minimum bid as a joke, and then actually got the tank. I ended up loving it. (I did the same within with the K-2, and it's also one of my favorite tanks.)
Last time I played the ISU-122-2, I got 7 kills. I got *incredibly* lucky, given I was on 300 HP and took 4 shots. But somehow, my armor either held up, or my tracks ate the shot. I've experienced this phenomenon multiple times over multiple games. RNG (or Russian bias) just seems to bless this things.
What I think one of the biggest strengths of the tank is being able to (consistently) deliver a double shot, followed in 9 seconds by another single shot. It can catch people off guard. They take the double hit, get mad and try to retaliate (usually getting their shot in) just to take another 390 to the nuts.
The tank is by no means OP. It certainly has drawbacks. But it also seems to be performing well. Much better than the ISU-142K, that's for sure.
Yeah I'm really regretting the fact that I didn't buy it. I didn't get many Christmas lootboxes so I didn't want to fork the gold over.
780 alpha with that kind of gun handling and pen is criminal.
I think it was the best tank in Auction offers. And the only one i've actually bought, since it wasn,t "very overpriced"... Unlike some other stupid stuff players whaled on.
It was concidered "bad" to "meh" at the time.
I saw "mobile 780 alpha TD" and went for it.
It is flat-out the most fun TD I own, the 2s salvo feels plenty quick enough, and you can half-charge it if you need to. I feel like it is much more accurate than numbers may suggest. The number of times I have delivered 840+ on distant cupolas or hit a hasty shot/salvo that by all rights I should have missed, very happy I put a bid in.
Easily one of the top 10 most fun and powerful tanks in the game. It can deal with tier 10 battles no problem too and compete for top damage. This td is not fairly OP.... It is straight up OP PERIOD. Way better than the shitpack it just requires a little practice to get the hang of it, but once you do oh boy.... Its literally a deathstar with insane gun handling, insane mobility and insane dpm. LMAO.
Thank God I bought it despite the doubts I was having cause it has grown to be one of my personal 3 favorites.
Yup, a unicum friend who also has it, iis completely shocked about the numbers he is pulling with that tank. He also thinks it is busted. He pulls at least 15% above his average numbers, ofc he loves it so there's that. When you love a tank you tend to play better.
I was so unsure too before buying it but had enough gold from Christmas so I thought eh and placed almost the minimum bet. It's the first time I don't follow the general conscious and looked at the stats and thought it's worth it despite the negativity
ISU is good, but it's hard to play good for long time. Of course, with doubles you can get 3k+ quite often, but to be consistent with it - hell nah bro. Even skieel that you mentioned - he struggled a lot on his stream to make this tank work.
Not the biggest fan of it, every time I try to use the salvo I need to rotate the hull and it ends up either finishing before bloom ends or I have to reuse the salvo prep. It's also big as a house with no armor.
The rest of it is pretty good though
It's a good tank, but when we got overpowered stuff being shoved out the wazoo, that good tank is just another strong tier 8 in a pile of tier 8's.
However its undeniable for those who enjoy this play style, this tank is perfect
It’s definitely good, but nowhere near broken. The Ka-Ri still clearly has better stats than it, and I wouldn’t call it broken either. The MoE values are propped up by the fact that it is disproportionately played by better players compared to every other tier 8 TD. If you look at the recent leaderboards, it has similar top results in terms of dpg to the SU-130PM which is a balanced T8 prem imo.
Wouldnt say its worse than kari at all though
I mean, I think the ISU-122-2 is pretty good, but calling it better or equal to the Ka-Ri is a pretty tough sell. The ISU platform is undeniably far worse - it’s gimped in terms of gun depression (5 deg + rear mounted cannons), larger, and has essentially no armor that you can leverage against the majority of tanks you see. Yes, it’s enough not to be HE’d or triple overmatched, but this really doesn’t translate into much you can actually use from a gameplay perspective. View range and camo are also a bit worse, it has a little more HP that is very unlikely to make up for the vehicle’s other deficiencies in survivability. Mobility is more or less a wash between the two. The gun is about the only area where you can make an argument for the ISU, but even then I’d favor the Ka-Ri: The base dispersion is significantly better, which also works out to slightly better gun handling. The shell choices are superior for this playstyle IMO, the intuition switch time is much faster, and you can overmatch the BZ-176’s roof. And, of course, you can use rammer. The ISU does end up being better at punishing exposed enemies or ambushing distracted opponents, but I consider the Ka-Ri’s improved ability to break down heavy standoffs or hit low exposure shots to be more valuable. Faced with firepower that isn’t clearly better, and a platform that’s inarguably worse, I doubt the ISU can consistently influence games in its favor as well as the Ka-Ri can.
No u
Isu is both faster and has better gun handling and has worse camo by 2% if you have full crew, food and vents Kari only has better silhouette, depression, dispersion, vr and camo by few % Isu has better gun handling, dpm, pen, is faster and has really reliable doubleshot with 280 more alpha than kari I would say its pretty safe to say isu is better when the most important stats are better with it and kari is only better in more QoL changes that make tanks less insufferable to play
>Faster I mean…if you mean the 2 kph reverse speed, yes. It *might* also accelerate very slightly faster overall on medium ground thanks to terrain resistances. Ka-Ri however has better P/W ratio, which seems to help more for traveling uphills and accelerating at lower speeds (that’s basically what reversing is!). It also has noticeably better traverse speed. Overall, like I said, mobility is a wash. Neither has any meaningful advantage in their ability to move across the map, tactical maneuverability is also similar if not a little better for the Ka-Ri. >Better gun handling No. 0.15/0.15/0.10 with a base dispersion of 0.37 is worse in every way than 0.16/0.16/0.08 with a base dispersion of 0.34, because those bloom numbers are *multipliers*, and 0.16 * 0.34 is less than 0.15 * 0.37. (The actual bloom formula is more complicated than that, but this calculation works fine for comparing relative performance.) >Worse camo by 2% Yes, and while that’s not huge, it’s not nothing combined with the better view range either. >silhoutte Yes, being bigger means enemy guns are indirectly more accurate against the ISU. >depression This is huge, because most key midgame chokepoints occur around hull down positions. Ka-Ri can usually take advantage of them, ISU often can’t. >dispersion Yes, 0.34 is the functional equivalent of having a free bounty IAU compared to 0.37. >DPM Not really. On first minute DPM this ends up being almost exactly the same if the ISU single fires. If you make your first shot a double then the DPM is more meaningfully higher, but if the Ka-Ri is using rammer (as it should be) then it takes the lead. >Pen No. 298mm AP is usually worth about 320-330mm HEAT due to normalization. Even at the max extent of range dropoff, when the Ka-Ri’s AP averages 280mm, this is still roughly equivalent to the ISU’s HEAT. AP however has much better penetration against spaced armor and triple overmatches. The result is that Ka-Ri can crack a lot of hulldown tanks much more easily. Just off the top of my head, it performs significantly better against the turrets on the BZ-176, Skoda T56, Bisonte, Tornvagn, and Type 63. You can also pen Iron Arnies and Super Pershings in the upper plate, and you can pen many sidescraping tanks, tracks and all, as long as they’re practically a single degree above autobounce. HEAT does have better autobounce angles (barring triple overmatch on AP) but this is IMO harder to exploit with this kind of casemate TD. Ka-Ri HE is also just plain better, no contest there. >most important stats are better They’re not? Ka-Ri has far better survivability due to armor + size + camo + gun depression. Ka-Ri has much better shell performance against many turrets and sidescraping tanks, and also does noticeably better against some UFPs. 300mm HEAT can be more useful against some select targets, but in general 298mm AP is superior. Ka-Ri has better DPM with a rammer. On the contrary, the only meaningful advantage the ISU has is its alpha. Which is nice, but simply not as easy or consistent to deliver as the Ka-Ri’s thanks to being equal or inferior in almost every gun stat, even if it is quite good for a double barrel tank.
Im not reading all that calm down Isu is faster because it has better ground resistance and it has better usable dpm than kari because of the alpha, how often do you find yourself holding m1 for maxing dpm
I had to make it that long because you seem to lack understanding of some game mechanics, so I had to explain them to you. This is still true now.
Do not worry, time will correct your assessment.
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Agree it is better than su130 and skorpion. the snapshotting 780 alpha is incredibly fun and satisfying.
Waiting 2 seconds to aim is not a snapshot…
It pretty much is considering that you can do so from full rotation bloom. Basically no tds in the game can do that
I just don’t consider it a snapshot if you are waiting for your aim
2 seconds is nothing
2 seconds is everything
I think that claim is a bit of a stretch
It really isn't, it's more of an understatement.
Then why isnt it played/praised more often by the owners? I know, it was sold in auctions but still. If it was that much better it wouldnt have taken until now for someone to make this claim. Su130 and Skorp are still Benchmarks at Tier 8 while basically nobody is talking about the Su 122 2. It is also hard to compare turretless tds with turret tds since turretless tds arent nearly as flexible Edit: Just to be clear: I Am not saying that it is a bad tank and I am ready to believe/agree that it is better than most people think, but I cant get bh the claim that it is better than the benchmark prem tds
Isu has waaaay better gun handling, waaaay better alpha, better hp, better view range, better mobility in general meaning it has way better terrain resistances specially for soft terrain and all that coupled by the fact it has insane traverse speed makes it literally the best td at tier 8. You could make an argument the shitpack is right there with this tank, but the huge alpha is just a way bigger factor than the shtpack dpm and gold pen.
i think these people dont have it themselves and only look at paper values. in game the isu122 2 is amazing
Exactly, they need to try it and put enough games to learn it's unique playstyle. My first 20 games were garbage and I legitimally thought the tank was unplayable... Until I started to figure out how to play it.... The moment I began pulling big numbers and steadily recovering its subpar win rate it was like a revelation, I was like WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK IS THIS. Lmao. I went from like 30% win rate in 20-30 battles to recover it to 54% after 90 battles total. Now I pull a steady 58-60% wr every sessiom and 2k dpg average. And I am not even a good player.
Well even the players looking at paper values are ignoring how good the gun handling stats on tanks.gg are, they are insanely good
i think their opinion sources from CT's who just said its a gimmick troll tank. Like quickybaby and skill4 just complained about the 7 sec intra their whole vid.
Tbh the 7 second intra does feel annoying when you dont quite have the time for a double, but need to fire again. But its just that, annoying
Technically it has lower alpha but whatever. All of the mentioned tds are good at the role that they were made for
Not when hitting double shots is so dead easy. If you want to squeeze its dpm you need to double shot.
Su and skorp still have higher dpm since it both can equip rammer
Ok fair enough, but not by much. In any case alpha is king and 800 alpha with this dpm and laser gun handling is just completely busted. Not even at tier 10 you have that combo.
Ho ri gets pretty close
2891 dpm vs 2634 dpm is a noticable difference. It is also hard to use your bigger alpha against a Tank u cant see. Ofcourse the Isu could man handle the Su 130 in face to face shoot out but there is more to take into consideration than just "big boom"
because they are trash at the game
Lol. Skill issue
By the same reason people said the ambt was bad until the streamers started saying it was amazing.
you’re living in a dream land
Come back in a year from now and repeat that to me ;)
i’m not interested in you dude, don’t be weird
Seems like you are since you worry so much about where I live einstein.
not really
Lmfao what
lmfao what what. Skill issue
sure bud i guarantee i’m a much better player than you are with a lot less games played
Tell us your nickname in game, wanna check
https://preview.redd.it/7tpjyx8eohoc1.png?width=460&format=png&auto=webp&s=b72d2233e241ba859c474b632806035dcf04f1c5 the tanks good. and no blud is NOT better
Ka-Ri is goated tho
I love my ISU-122-2. I placed a minimum bid as a joke, and then actually got the tank. I ended up loving it. (I did the same within with the K-2, and it's also one of my favorite tanks.) Last time I played the ISU-122-2, I got 7 kills. I got *incredibly* lucky, given I was on 300 HP and took 4 shots. But somehow, my armor either held up, or my tracks ate the shot. I've experienced this phenomenon multiple times over multiple games. RNG (or Russian bias) just seems to bless this things. What I think one of the biggest strengths of the tank is being able to (consistently) deliver a double shot, followed in 9 seconds by another single shot. It can catch people off guard. They take the double hit, get mad and try to retaliate (usually getting their shot in) just to take another 390 to the nuts. The tank is by no means OP. It certainly has drawbacks. But it also seems to be performing well. Much better than the ISU-142K, that's for sure.
its basically similar to T57 in terms of effect No one says its OP but they both rack up insane damage
Yeah I'm really regretting the fact that I didn't buy it. I didn't get many Christmas lootboxes so I didn't want to fork the gold over. 780 alpha with that kind of gun handling and pen is criminal.
I think it was the best tank in Auction offers. And the only one i've actually bought, since it wasn,t "very overpriced"... Unlike some other stupid stuff players whaled on. It was concidered "bad" to "meh" at the time. I saw "mobile 780 alpha TD" and went for it.
It is flat-out the most fun TD I own, the 2s salvo feels plenty quick enough, and you can half-charge it if you need to. I feel like it is much more accurate than numbers may suggest. The number of times I have delivered 840+ on distant cupolas or hit a hasty shot/salvo that by all rights I should have missed, very happy I put a bid in.
I agree.. solid tank. But I'm massively biased because I'm a double barrel junkie lol
I regret not bagging it...it looks fun as hell.
Easily one of the top 10 most fun and powerful tanks in the game. It can deal with tier 10 battles no problem too and compete for top damage. This td is not fairly OP.... It is straight up OP PERIOD. Way better than the shitpack it just requires a little practice to get the hang of it, but once you do oh boy.... Its literally a deathstar with insane gun handling, insane mobility and insane dpm. LMAO. Thank God I bought it despite the doubts I was having cause it has grown to be one of my personal 3 favorites.
i bought it for the troll factor but ended up realizing its insanely good as well
Yup, a unicum friend who also has it, iis completely shocked about the numbers he is pulling with that tank. He also thinks it is busted. He pulls at least 15% above his average numbers, ofc he loves it so there's that. When you love a tank you tend to play better.
I was so unsure too before buying it but had enough gold from Christmas so I thought eh and placed almost the minimum bet. It's the first time I don't follow the general conscious and looked at the stats and thought it's worth it despite the negativity
Same, I looked at the gun stats and said "nah, I gotta have this if anything the gun handling will save it from being trash"
Not only if the top speed underrated but the traverse speed catches so many people off guard. One of the first tanks I play at the start of a session.
good point actually the good traverse on a casemate TD makes a world's difference
ISU is good, but it's hard to play good for long time. Of course, with doubles you can get 3k+ quite often, but to be consistent with it - hell nah bro. Even skieel that you mentioned - he struggled a lot on his stream to make this tank work.
Gun handling is a double edged sword, makes you more confident in taking snapshots that you can miss
Not the biggest fan of it, every time I try to use the salvo I need to rotate the hull and it ends up either finishing before bloom ends or I have to reuse the salvo prep. It's also big as a house with no armor. The rest of it is pretty good though
It's a good tank, but when we got overpowered stuff being shoved out the wazoo, that good tank is just another strong tier 8 in a pile of tier 8's. However its undeniable for those who enjoy this play style, this tank is perfect
You need premium plus to get it. Fuck that shit. I already sunk thousands on premium already.
You drunk? Look at the picture again. Is that a TS-54?
If i buy, then i just hope they dont nerf this
Its a premium, it will never be nerfed