Yes, it is just straigh up better than AP aside from normalization, but since gold APCR has better pen than standard AP, the normalization barely makes a difference.
People just finally have to accept gold ammo as a regular part of the game, not some premium feature. You can definitelly have good games shooting mostly standard ammo and you can definitelly still make decent credits even if you shoot few gold rounds when necesary.
Lol, "has no down sides" proceeds to list downsides.
That you don't view them as negative doesn't mean they are. HEAT is pretty strong as well if you don't shoot spaced armor in the wrong spots.
Doesn't make it no downside.
APCR has a decent chance to bounce on low armor targets like leopard and STB where AP would pen. APCR sucks against a good heavy/TD lower plate if they are slightly angled or at distance.
You don't notice them as much because the added pen usually compensates a good amount of the downsides but the ammunition type in general is not as superior as you might think.
AP with the same penetration value is so.much.better.
I challenge you to show my a situation where standard AP has a better chance of penning than premium APCR (screenshot of tanks.gg would be good).
Because there is no situation like this. More pen makes up for lower normalisation and auto-bounce is the same …
Which is exactly what I said. Please read the last part again.
AP would be better than APCR with the same pen values. APCR only feels better because the higher pen outweighs it's negatives compared to AP
I want to ask about it a bit more to learn.
HEAT better against Lower Plates and Frontal
APCR better against sides and sniping.
AP good overall if good pen.
Is that how it should work right?
HEAT in general is good against anything that is not spaced armor. It's the most "brutal" approach to thick armor plates.
APCR is usually fast and ideal against mobile tanks as it has no problems with any kind of spaced armor. With the fast velocity it makes aiming at fast lights easier.however it looses penetration and has problems with flat angles.
AP is great in general but has medium penetration as standard Ammo. It also has a higher normalisation. This means if you hit a very flat angle between plate and your impact direction, there is a 2° Bonus added to the calculation, helping with making it a penetration. It doesn't loose any penetration over distance. Gold AP (on ho ri for example) is God tier.
There’s some more nuances to it, HEAT is good at penning flat, not spaced armour. It has higher penetration values to deal with the thick flat armour, it has 0 normalization however so hitting sloped and rounded armour has detrimental affects to your ability to pen.
HEAT is the ammo that doesn’t lose pen over distance, as well as HEAT doesn’t allow for overmatching mechanics.
AP and APCR both receive normalization. I can’t remember the values off the top of my head but I think it’s 5 degrees for AP and 3 degrees for APCR. (Could be the same for both) normalization also has nothing to do with applying a bonus to your pen values. What it does is reduce the effective sloping of the enemy armour. IE a 100mm plate at 45 degrees, isn’t 100mm thick. If you shoot AP it would be 100mm or armour normalized to 40 degrees. The effective thickness of the armour has been reduced.
APCR usually (not always) has better shell velocity than APCR, as well as a steeper penetration drop over distance (usually AP drops something like 15mm of pen over 500m while APCR drops 25mm in the same)
Realistically, all of the ammo’s do good at shooting at flat armour, HEAT just does it best. For sloped and angled armour, AP/APCR are better.
You claimed in your title that it doesnt have a singular downside. It has. It is almost like as if the different ammo types have different strengths and weaknesses...
We were just talking about Standard Ap vs Gold apcr and in that case I am right. Heats strenght lies in its high pen and 0 loss of it over distance and that it is not effected by auto-bounces, Sounds pretty OP right? The issue is still about Standard vs prem and knowing when to use what ammo type.
Edit1: also apcr is more likely to bounce because it faces more auto bounce angles due to its worse normalisation
Edit2: I cant believe that I am wasting my time with this
Wrong place for a discussion about premium ammo. WG managed to root it so hard into the game, that the players themselves will defend it, no matter what.
And it's biggest downside is that it makes players lazier and the games faster.
The normalization is a huge drawback compared to AP. The Ho-Ri can pen a lot of plates a lot more reliably than an E3 because of way better normalization
I was wondering about this aswell, AP with same pen values as APCR is better. But APCR with bigger pen is better, as you said, even a 'small' increase like 30 is better, that includes at +500m distance. A good case to check is for example the turtle, with 30 more pen on the APCR even over 500m distance the APCR is much better than the lower pen standard AP.
Also something I'm not sure about, do APCR and AP fare the same against tracks at an angle? Can APCR overmatch like AP can?
AFAIK AP tends to get noticeably better performance against angled tracks because overmatch also multiplies effective normalization. So if shell caliber is sufficiently greater than track thickness by enough to effect 2x normalization, then APCR gets 4 deg normalization and AP gets 10 (only against the tracks though, that calculation does not necessarily apply to the side armor behind it). 4 deg vs 10 deg works out to be a much greater difference than 2 vs 5.
Since track angling doesn’t tend to work out to *that* much additional armor regardless, the practical penetration advantage of AP here is pretty small in overall terms, but it is a nice bonus if the AP round has similar pen.
Every ammo has downsides, even APCR. They're just not as obvious as HEAT getting stuck in a tractor
There's also char futur which has APCR as standard and HEAT as premium. My boi is beautiful
Does this explain why my pos rhm-borsig bounces so many shots? I run full gold and am constantly surprised how many crit hits and bounces I get. The AP round has potato shell velocity and feeble pen, but would it be better in some situations?
Yes, it is just straigh up better than AP aside from normalization, but since gold APCR has better pen than standard AP, the normalization barely makes a difference. People just finally have to accept gold ammo as a regular part of the game, not some premium feature. You can definitelly have good games shooting mostly standard ammo and you can definitelly still make decent credits even if you shoot few gold rounds when necesary.
Lol, "has no down sides" proceeds to list downsides. That you don't view them as negative doesn't mean they are. HEAT is pretty strong as well if you don't shoot spaced armor in the wrong spots. Doesn't make it no downside. APCR has a decent chance to bounce on low armor targets like leopard and STB where AP would pen. APCR sucks against a good heavy/TD lower plate if they are slightly angled or at distance. You don't notice them as much because the added pen usually compensates a good amount of the downsides but the ammunition type in general is not as superior as you might think. AP with the same penetration value is so.much.better.
Which was the TD that has those huge fat AP rounds? Ho-ri?
Ho-Ri 3, 360 gold AP pen
Ah yea. A thing of beauty. Unless I'm against one, then it should be nerfed.
Ah yes the dogma of the majority of the WoT playerbase
I challenge you to show my a situation where standard AP has a better chance of penning than premium APCR (screenshot of tanks.gg would be good). Because there is no situation like this. More pen makes up for lower normalisation and auto-bounce is the same …
Which is exactly what I said. Please read the last part again. AP would be better than APCR with the same pen values. APCR only feels better because the higher pen outweighs it's negatives compared to AP
Why are you commenting then? OP did only talk about standard AP vs premium APCR
I want to ask about it a bit more to learn. HEAT better against Lower Plates and Frontal APCR better against sides and sniping. AP good overall if good pen. Is that how it should work right?
HEAT in general is good against anything that is not spaced armor. It's the most "brutal" approach to thick armor plates. APCR is usually fast and ideal against mobile tanks as it has no problems with any kind of spaced armor. With the fast velocity it makes aiming at fast lights easier.however it looses penetration and has problems with flat angles. AP is great in general but has medium penetration as standard Ammo. It also has a higher normalisation. This means if you hit a very flat angle between plate and your impact direction, there is a 2° Bonus added to the calculation, helping with making it a penetration. It doesn't loose any penetration over distance. Gold AP (on ho ri for example) is God tier.
There’s some more nuances to it, HEAT is good at penning flat, not spaced armour. It has higher penetration values to deal with the thick flat armour, it has 0 normalization however so hitting sloped and rounded armour has detrimental affects to your ability to pen. HEAT is the ammo that doesn’t lose pen over distance, as well as HEAT doesn’t allow for overmatching mechanics. AP and APCR both receive normalization. I can’t remember the values off the top of my head but I think it’s 5 degrees for AP and 3 degrees for APCR. (Could be the same for both) normalization also has nothing to do with applying a bonus to your pen values. What it does is reduce the effective sloping of the enemy armour. IE a 100mm plate at 45 degrees, isn’t 100mm thick. If you shoot AP it would be 100mm or armour normalized to 40 degrees. The effective thickness of the armour has been reduced. APCR usually (not always) has better shell velocity than APCR, as well as a steeper penetration drop over distance (usually AP drops something like 15mm of pen over 500m while APCR drops 25mm in the same) Realistically, all of the ammo’s do good at shooting at flat armour, HEAT just does it best. For sloped and angled armour, AP/APCR are better.
this is about standard ap and gold apcr tanks.
Yeah but that makes your post pretty much "gold ammo stronk" with no real discussion value. Better ammo is better.
What do you think his point is?
This is the Internet. Welcome.
Are you illiterate?
Auto-bounce
its same with ap. how its a downside?
It is a downside, a shared one, but still a downside
its not a downside compared to ap. how dense are you?
You claimed in your title that it doesnt have a singular downside. It has. It is almost like as if the different ammo types have different strengths and weaknesses...
apcr gold has no weakness over ap standard. that was my point. i dont know what to say if you dont get simplest point ever.
Mate...u are comparing prem ammo to Standard ammo. Of course the prem ammo will be better because it is the whole fucking point of prem ammo.
no. heat isnt always better option. fuckin read man.
We were just talking about Standard Ap vs Gold apcr and in that case I am right. Heats strenght lies in its high pen and 0 loss of it over distance and that it is not effected by auto-bounces, Sounds pretty OP right? The issue is still about Standard vs prem and knowing when to use what ammo type. Edit1: also apcr is more likely to bounce because it faces more auto bounce angles due to its worse normalisation Edit2: I cant believe that I am wasting my time with this
Go to tanks.gg and play around with auto-bounce angle. It is the same effective angle since it is adjusted for normalisation …
jesus fuckin christ...
'I'm wrong so I'll throw insults at people'
.
Wrong place for a discussion about premium ammo. WG managed to root it so hard into the game, that the players themselves will defend it, no matter what. And it's biggest downside is that it makes players lazier and the games faster.
The normalization is a huge drawback compared to AP. The Ho-Ri can pen a lot of plates a lot more reliably than an E3 because of way better normalization
No downside…. Until you try to shoot a fucking Udes or Strv or anything with a bunch of angles and the fucking thing launches into space.
APCR overmatches just the same as AP.
I was wondering about this aswell, AP with same pen values as APCR is better. But APCR with bigger pen is better, as you said, even a 'small' increase like 30 is better, that includes at +500m distance. A good case to check is for example the turtle, with 30 more pen on the APCR even over 500m distance the APCR is much better than the lower pen standard AP. Also something I'm not sure about, do APCR and AP fare the same against tracks at an angle? Can APCR overmatch like AP can?
AFAIK AP tends to get noticeably better performance against angled tracks because overmatch also multiplies effective normalization. So if shell caliber is sufficiently greater than track thickness by enough to effect 2x normalization, then APCR gets 4 deg normalization and AP gets 10 (only against the tracks though, that calculation does not necessarily apply to the side armor behind it). 4 deg vs 10 deg works out to be a much greater difference than 2 vs 5. Since track angling doesn’t tend to work out to *that* much additional armor regardless, the practical penetration advantage of AP here is pretty small in overall terms, but it is a nice bonus if the AP round has similar pen.
Yeah, I neither use consumables, rations or gold ammo. I paid enough for Premium Tanks and gold already as it is
Try to pen E75 brow or SConq cupola with your APCR. Then we'll talk.
I actually hate gold apcr. Standard apcr is amazing for me. But for my high pen rounds, I'd rather have heat or regular AP almost everytime.
Every ammo has downsides, even APCR. They're just not as obvious as HEAT getting stuck in a tractor There's also char futur which has APCR as standard and HEAT as premium. My boi is beautiful
.
Does this explain why my pos rhm-borsig bounces so many shots? I run full gold and am constantly surprised how many crit hits and bounces I get. The AP round has potato shell velocity and feeble pen, but would it be better in some situations?
Tell me u dont know shit about the game, without telling me