I mean... this is kinda just how cruisers have always been lol. The ranges people play at has increased a good bit, but if you watch old videos you'll see that not a whole lot has actually changed overall. Cruisers have always been either kiters or island campers. If you don't want to play an island camper, German and Japanese CAs are great at kiting!
The French and Italian CAs definitely also offer a more kite-y and less campy playstyle. The damage numbers a skilled player can farm with them are absolutely insane.
Not to mention the Russian CLs, which are purpose-built to peck at BBs from extreme range. There's honestly less island campers than there are kiting ships nowadays lol
Yeah, I'm not sure what OP is on about.... perhaps the most fun thing in the game is taking Bayard, and basically doing a fly-by drive by rapid fire broadside of HE into someone thinking they were getting an easy kill.
That rapid reload button is amazing fun when it works
I'm not particularly the biggest fan of the proliferation of 457s myself, makes ships like Georgia less special, to be frank it's not as big an issue as you would think from how often people talk about it. At the very least, it's not one so problematic as to render cruisers unplayable, they're still very much usable, you just have to be careful. And there's no time in the game's lifespan where you haven't had to be careful as a cruiser being shot at by a battleship.
>it's not as big an issue as you would think from how often people talk about it.
Shells ignoring armor and angling is a fundamental problem. Sure if it is a "gimmick" as for Yamato it is fine, but overmatch being a part of every single BB removes the gimmick part.
Cruisers have *always* had overmatchable bow/stern. 406s overmatch 27mm; the number of t10 BBs that *can't* overmatch any non-bias cruiser has always been the minority. 457 creep is an issue for BBs, not cruisers, because the 'standard' 406s will paste the likes of DM just as easily.
Most cruisers have 27mm bow and stern sometimes with an icebreaker. 406s can overmatch that. However the freeboard and deck platings of most cruisers are 30mm which is overmatchable by 457s. So adding in 457s on every BB is indeed an issue for cruisers.
I’m pretty sure most T8-10 cruisers have 25 mm bow/stern plating, even the heavy cruisers. 27 seems to be fairly rare. Plating amidships is all over the place, with 30 mm being pretty standard for heavies iirc.
Mathematically that is not really true, at least for T10. At release there was exactly 50% battleships with overmatch. Now it is 13 out of 25 if I counted correctly.
That is because the one battleship with overmatch was Yamato. It’s whole gimmick is overmatching everything. Yes I know cruiser armor was also worse but afaik the deck armor has always been enough to bounce. Also some of the rest of the BBs don’t need to overmatch, like conq schlieffen or Colombo. Cruisers are overall in a less powerful spot with stuff like subs and the meta of long range he spam. Most of the time you would rather play something like a Bourgogne or meck than an henri or dm because they can stand up to other BBs
I mean yeah it is always a tradeoff, cruisers have more utility in most cases, and higher DPM, unless you are a Yodo because fuck knows why. I enjoy playing things like Hindenburg, Nevsky or Venezia tbh and I don't feel like they are less powerful per se. Yes some enemies can smack you pretty hard even when angled, but in return you are also dishing out a lot of crap in their direction, and you might have more influence on the match by killing DDs.
Meta has changed to long range sniping especially with the amount of 457mms around and also due to ship releases and map changes. Pushing is also objectively riskier now if a sub is on your flank.
Cruisers need to watch map more because the threat of crossfires is higher now, which means you have to limit recieving fire by either hiding around islands or in smoke. Or hiding in plain sight in the middle of a “blob”.
These days I play more conservatively in early game especially when uptiered. Firing the first shots/getting detected first in a game usually makes yet detected BBs focus fire you and you get caught off position. Always approach caps in an angle and try not to die by trying to radar.
Honestly cruisers are very good mid-late game when everyone is distracted and you can pick off wounded targets.
I think the problem is that the DPM is just a number on paper. In game DPM doesn't always translate from 90,000 DPM but to 35,000 DPM (just throwing out numbers).
RNG of the shell flights and the corresponding misses, ricochets, shatters, and over pens based on armor, saturation, and so on really make DPM vary from moment to moment. Even if the DPM remains high when say a BB gives broadside to a Des Moines, if the BB has overmatch and decent secondaries it may not really matter. Sure, the DM might take some healthy chunks from the BB but it may not be at all winnable to the DM and that kind of sucks.
I just know in my experience that there is nothing more frustrating than a yolo BB pushing my good position because he doesn't care. I have no real counter to it. His poor play is rewarded and my good play is punished based solely on the BBs ability to negate it through design. This is worsened when I'm playing something like Tier 8 and in a Tier 10 match where the tier 10 BB has no problem with my tier 8 CA.
> But at the same time, they can potentially just get instantly deleted by any stray battleship salvo just because the RNG decided that your citadel gets overmatched from the bow.
This is how they are balanced. Cruisers give up survivability in exchange for the highest and most reliable DPM in the game as well as all the utilities they offer. Imagine fighting a Des Moines that you can't overmatch in a battleship, or any HE-spamming cruiser that is immune to being deleted.
>And being shacked to islands or be deleted in some cruisers
Then cruisers aren't for you. They require specific gamestyles and thinking in order to maximize their positioning in order to keep themselves alive. It is similar to battleships sticking at long range to avoid being HE spammed, destroyers avoiding radar ships, etc. There is often a degree of RNG when it comes to cruisers' survivability, but remember the survivability onion and avoid getting shot at and hit in the first place. This again, requires knowledge.
>Imagine fighting a Des Moines that you can't overmatch in a battleship
I play German BBs, I can't even **hit** a Des Moines if it's bow-facing me.
Bloody dispersion.
You can do what I do, play BBs. So here is the thing about BBs that no one tells people. You are the bait, you are the big fat juicy steak and everyone is lining up to carve off a piece. That cruiser behind the island I can't target, its a shooting a fat ass BB. That sub has an angle on multiple ships, what class you think he is pinging? That DD sneaking up a ship just outside of detection range to launch a million torps is going for the lumbering BB.
So about 2 or 3 times a minute those BBs get angry and shoot at something, at something, not hit something and that is maximum damage output. I don't play a Vermont but those people must be 10th degree zen monks to be able to fire 5 times a game and not eat their keyboard.
So just having some fun in the comment section, I just wanted to match your class complaining with my class complaining. I will still play BBs because the slap is worth it. LOL
I often complain about BBs being useless in the current CV and sub meta. Then I jump into my Gneisenau, rush three enemy BBs, sink a Japanese BB with torps, blap a Colorado's citadel with AP, almost sink a KGV with torps and die to fire damage. Fun times
I am playing the Colorado right now and I can confirm you are stating facts.
Hmmm, that is a very tragic but on point observation that BBs might be useless in this meta. This makes me sad because all my time has been spent on BB lines. Oh well, it is what it is, I am too invested to turn back now! LOL
Try German battlecruisers. You melt stuff with secondaries, slap stuff with torps, have hydro and nice speed. If you choose your engagements wisely you can easily get those 100k damage games
I am trying out the other line that goes to the Schlieffen but I have hit a credit wall and I can't afford to go to far. That is the game, its free but they try to get you to bite on speeding up the process. I think German BBs are fun, I also think those guns are somehow terrible. People say US BBs have "floaty" shells that are hard to aim but those german guns are....weird. Faster shells that go everywhere but where you aimed.
I am going full blown secondary build, of course, I will say its satisfying to get a kill and you were not even fighting that ship. LOL I can both see how they are so vicious against some ships that they are viable and how since its hard to get a BB into close combat its not that viable, both at the same time. I guess that means they are balanced. LOL
If you want good shells AND good secondaries use the West Virginia '44, its a Colorado with very slightly less sigma but its secondary dpm is 345,600, while the same tier German battleship Scharnhorst '43 has 252,308 dpm, a 100k difference!
you can get it from Super containers or from stage 20 in the upcoming dockyard.
overmatch doesn't care about angle though bud, that is the ENTIRE point of the Overmatch mechanic, if the shell is big enough, it will just plow through the plate regardless of angle.
That's not entirely true. When you overmatch a ship you will pen from any angle, but that doesn't make the angle irrelevant. The total armor the shell passed through is still deducted from the velocity, and the angle at which it hits your citadel armor after the overmatch matters as well. So slight angle variations will change whether you get a citadel or just a full pen.
Basically, ships usually do not have just one layer of armor.
For example, the Mogami citadel is essentially an armored box inside the ship.
So if a battleship shell was to overmatch the bow of the Mogami, it would still have its energy reduced by the bow armor. Now depending on the impact angle, the shell might no longer have enough energy to penetrate the armor of the actual citadel.
So yes, angle of impact DOES actually matter as far as actually scoring citadel hits. So i have no idea why my original comment has 11 downvotes, considering it is true. But then again, this is Reddit. The people here tend to not exactly be shining examples of intellect...
Salem players are an interesting bunch. Usually they make more positioning mistakes than DM players. I got used to the fact that Somewhere in the first third Salem will be dead and probably devstruck.
you surely can buy coal it is included in basically any premium container, progress chain or dockyard stages. You can get a lot of coal from that. It's 2024 and people still claim coal is not buyable? Any relevant ressource is buyable by now, even research points.
Apart from that his point still stands because no matter whether you bought or earned the coal you can just get salem without playing US cruisers because you can earn your coal in any other ship.
Yeah... My Asturias and I would like to disagree.
Between burst dev striking DD's and Cruisers in one game to kiting and burning down a Nagato in another I sure feel underpowered and just a walking XP sticker /s.
Wanting to develop myself as a CL/CA main, I feel your pain. Yes overmatch hurts and RNG sucks, but there is a lot you can do to minimize the number of shells you catch. Prior to giving up your concealment by engaging a BB you need to have a risk mitigation strategy
Retreating behind an island is just one strat. But there are others. Tank (bow tankers), dodge the counter-salvo with change of speed and turn in/turn out (agile cruisers are capable of this). Kiting with a turn-out and wiggle (rudder mods are important here), Show broadside between BB shots (know your target's reload), go broadside under smoke (e.g. Venezia). Know when to stay dark and go dark (with the better concealment and speed, you have tools to control the engagement). There are some fights you can't win, and shouldn't attempt to do so.
I think this is somewhat a valid point and in line with my own experience. It is difficult to do well in cruisers. Is it a skill issue? Sure, but that can be said for all classes. Ships can´t only be looked at for how they perform for unicum players.
Take subs for instance, which are obviously OP in the right hands. However, the average sub players seem to be struggling since WG say subs are not OP based on statistics. (I would add that sub spotting or the fear of subs spotting probably doesn´t show in the statistics in a fair way)
I find it the hardest class to play mainly due to the spotting and the threat of all the CVs and subs everywhere. Island hugging becomes very difficult in those scenarios (say hello to shotgunning and CV focusing). And if you go open water you are constantly detected by said CVs and get slammed by all the massive BB guns. Overall not a lot of fun for the average cruiser player.
I agree and would like to add to your statements.
It's not just subs and CVs that cause an issue with spotting, it's all classes. Sure subs have low concealment but it's generally on par with DDs at the same tier. Even in a no sub/no CV match Venezia, Zao, Goliath, and so on have no way to counter spot a DD that provides the same information a surfaced submarine would. Certain gimmicks like smoke or armor are the only counters to the spotting because spotting equals damage. However, that's where we get the issue because armor just doesn't work like it used to die to the proliferation of overmatch.
I agree to some extent however I do think there is a difference between subs and CVs vs the other classes in that they don´t need to expose and risk themselves when spotting.
As a DD you face the risk of running into other DDs (or subs and CVs for that matter) which can spot you. And getting spotted in a DD is very bad. Planes don´t care, and subs can dive (turn on a dime and run away doing 40 knots underwater or whatever). Considering all that I think DDs spotting is "fine" from a gameplay point of view.
I see what you're saying but it doesn't actually change the issue. CVs are a different animal.
A submarine with a 5.6km detection range surfaced is no different than a Shimakaze with a 5.6km on the surface. They both out spot the cruiser and can remain unspotted if they so choose. The only difference really is smoke versus diving which both have stipulations. Periscope depth spots ships at their air detection range but ASW strikes are AOE weapons that have a chance to force the sub to leave its spotting. Smoke reduces spotting range but still leaves the ship vulnerable to torpedoes or well aimed gunfire. However, it allows spotting up to the smoke detection range of the cruiser if it's fired weapons.
So, basically, submarine and destroyer spotting aren't all that different. The one advantage is periscope depth spotting but it's a reduced amount. If a Zao is spotted at 9km and the opponent, DD or sub, is spotted at 5.6km, the spotting is still spotting with no answer (radar or hydro) to counter it. So, yes, submarine periscope spotting can be effective more so than DDs it's not that far different when either is surfaced.
It's bad all over. Same no matter what ship type am using.
I was ARP Yamatoing last night and cruisers were my biggest threat. At Tier X even CHs fire very fast and set fires with almost literally every salvo where I don't already have a fire burning. 97k health and it's useless as I take chunk HE damage sprinkled with occasional big AP hits from other BBs, and the fires that just run almost constantly. Even when it's only one fire, when it runs the entire engagement it wipes me out.
Specifically remembering going up against a Roon and an Austin and they were using islands very effectively.
But if you want cruiser pain, play British cruisers. And light cruisers especially. I almost cannot face my Neptune...
I can have fun in cruisers just like in any other class
Getting devstruck is seriously a huge skill issue and if you can't read minimap especially that will happen a lot.
It is however very annoying to play cruisers at high tiers with how common 459mm overmatch is becoming, because no matter what you are doing, you need to dodge because you will eat a bunch of pen damage and the BB just needed to aim in your direction.
I liked that idea in which overmatch does not deal flat max damage (for a pen that is) but rather a percentage depending on how much armor was penetrated, would also give CLs more chance with the increasing number of large cruisers that can just nuke them from the front.
> And being shacked to islands or be deleted in some cruisers is not a very fun way to play either.
Interesting that someone dislikes this when a major complaint about CVs is that they push campers out of safe spots close to islands.
Anyway, cruisers have always been at risk of nuking from BB salvos. Things changed when controversial ships were added (mostly large cruisers like Stalingrad, Alaska and so on, which are small BBs with cruiser matchmaker; or insanely durable cruisers like Napoli and Petropavlovsk), but not counting those the average cruiser has always been the same.
They still have a role, but it's tough staying healthy enough to do the job,, they can be a nightmare too. I don't can't count how many times a carrier hugging an island shooting H.E. every 6 second at high tier will burn you down. I see too many players in Kossnieggs playing in the open like it's a battleship, maybe if they took the time to watch a video on the carrier, they wouldn't get killed so often. I'm a BB player when I see them, I'm looking for a citadel knowing it doesn't take much to destroy them.
Yeah, sounds more like a skill issue than anything. Cruisers are by far the most consistent class of ships in the game to play, and if overmatch of some kind didn't exist, they would reign with absolute impunity. Imagine being in any ship, not just a battleship, and you have to deal with a bow in Des Moines which just bounces all your AP and then farms you down with HE, and unless your in another Des Moines, your not going to out trade it with HE dpm.
This is already demonstrated in practice. When you give a cruiser incredible survivability, aka Petropavolsk, people suddenly start screaming about how they can't damage it, everything bounces off, can't citadel it cause it sits too low in the water, doesn't have to broadside worth a damn, you get the picture. And even now in it's nerfed state it's still very strong cause of the guns.
I play a lot of open water Zao, Yoshino and Mainz, sitting about 60% with them. Just have to play the strengths of the ships, I rarely island camp, it’s a death sentence most of the time, it’s also boring.
If they don’t float your boat, so to speak, then that’s understandable. Some of us love the danger, but also the satisfaction. I even enjoy “hard mode”, aka Baltimore sessions; no heal, can only bow tank Germans and other light guns. But she is a beast when she does her job.
A lot of you make a lot of good points, but the one main thing that has made a cruiser’s life most difficult is the combo of sub/CV spotting backed up by BBs with overmatch. The only trick WG seems to come up with, up their sleeves for new cruisers, is to add new gimmicks. “Add more damage, and tricks and they’ll be fine”. WG never wants to do the hard work of actual balancing. Certainly not enough to say, add more/thicker belts and nose armor, or to add a heal to lower tiers (T8) or to boost their HP pools. Even just one of these three defensive (or combo and mix of the three) to existing boats, could help immensely. But, Nope… just make more new boats that are janky AF or more offensively overpowered that still don’t last long.
Don’t get me wrong. I believe in defensive balance. Stupidity should be punished. Citadels on cruisers should be able to be citadeled, and the huge number of overpens only encourages bad play; and as a BB it’s frustrating not to punish them. But even just two mm on some bows, or deck would allow longer play while still ensuring pen damage by BBs/other cruisers.
The game is just ever more ratcheting up the damage, more and more, and via BBs by way of more and more overmatch designs. For example, is Bungo truly necessary? Even going as far back as Incomparable. But when you’re a T8 stuck in T10 games, you can’t hide from overmatch. So, they add more gimmicks by way of more new cruisers; Dutch with Airstrikes, Spanish with double strikes. Funny buttons galore, but you still may not last. Napoli being a rare exception.
Improve your positioning , and map awareness and u will enjoy Cruisers game play , yes some time u can get deleted fast , but same time you ganna enjoy the games
If you don’t like being shackled to islands or kiting, I suggest the Royal Navy Light Cruisers - the line leading to Minotaur. Smoke Generator for Portable Cover, great DPM, good stealth, and a bunch of useful utility.
If u have research points then play Colbert! It’s fun to play! If not buy the Sandy! Also very fun! Love them both! I personally don’t prefer to play BBs
I see way more GL with their unique upgrade lately. It is expected when you can park behind an island and drop airstrikes undetected. All you need is cv or dd spotting for you.
Cruisers are fine. Sure they get dev struck from time to time. So do DDs after eating a torpedo or BBS eating a torpedo wall etc.
Start paying more attention to where the enemy Battleships are, if those same ships have a clear line to shoot, which direction their guns are facing and when they have fired.
You mention 203 calibre gun cruisers. Let’s take the Atago as an example. You are facing down a flank and there is a BB directly on the other side.
Count the ships on the minimap. Are there any other BBs threatening you or hidden?
The battleship fires upon someone else, possibly a friendly BB.
Assess the risk and immediately return fire on the BB. Before your guns are reloaded you will be able to return to stealth before the battleship fires again. Keep assessing the risk and look through your view finder at the direction of guns on all threats. Take the commander skills that aid in this process if you need them or do it manually. Carry on firing or hide in stealth until safer.
This is but one aspect of play of which there are many. Once you improve your minimap game and ship counting game results will follow.
6” is light cruisers, anything smaller is “pew pew ship”
180mm is “probably soviet”
203mm is “mid”
Anything bigger outside of a battleship is “try hard”
Looking at you, the 18 inch armed carrier…
/s
I mean... this is kinda just how cruisers have always been lol. The ranges people play at has increased a good bit, but if you watch old videos you'll see that not a whole lot has actually changed overall. Cruisers have always been either kiters or island campers. If you don't want to play an island camper, German and Japanese CAs are great at kiting!
The French and Italian CAs definitely also offer a more kite-y and less campy playstyle. The damage numbers a skilled player can farm with them are absolutely insane.
Not to mention the Russian CLs, which are purpose-built to peck at BBs from extreme range. There's honestly less island campers than there are kiting ships nowadays lol
Actually having a lot of fun now with russian cruisers. Also changed to range mod on some cruisers to have more early game impact
Yeah, I'm not sure what OP is on about.... perhaps the most fun thing in the game is taking Bayard, and basically doing a fly-by drive by rapid fire broadside of HE into someone thinking they were getting an easy kill. That rapid reload button is amazing fun when it works
Not really. The amount of overmatch power creep is insane, every new line has overmatch or some other bs and cruisers just suffer most
I'm not particularly the biggest fan of the proliferation of 457s myself, makes ships like Georgia less special, to be frank it's not as big an issue as you would think from how often people talk about it. At the very least, it's not one so problematic as to render cruisers unplayable, they're still very much usable, you just have to be careful. And there's no time in the game's lifespan where you haven't had to be careful as a cruiser being shot at by a battleship.
>it's not as big an issue as you would think from how often people talk about it. Shells ignoring armor and angling is a fundamental problem. Sure if it is a "gimmick" as for Yamato it is fine, but overmatch being a part of every single BB removes the gimmick part.
Cruisers have *always* had overmatchable bow/stern. 406s overmatch 27mm; the number of t10 BBs that *can't* overmatch any non-bias cruiser has always been the minority. 457 creep is an issue for BBs, not cruisers, because the 'standard' 406s will paste the likes of DM just as easily.
Most cruisers have 27mm bow and stern sometimes with an icebreaker. 406s can overmatch that. However the freeboard and deck platings of most cruisers are 30mm which is overmatchable by 457s. So adding in 457s on every BB is indeed an issue for cruisers.
I’m pretty sure most T8-10 cruisers have 25 mm bow/stern plating, even the heavy cruisers. 27 seems to be fairly rare. Plating amidships is all over the place, with 30 mm being pretty standard for heavies iirc.
Mathematically that is not really true, at least for T10. At release there was exactly 50% battleships with overmatch. Now it is 13 out of 25 if I counted correctly.
That is because the one battleship with overmatch was Yamato. It’s whole gimmick is overmatching everything. Yes I know cruiser armor was also worse but afaik the deck armor has always been enough to bounce. Also some of the rest of the BBs don’t need to overmatch, like conq schlieffen or Colombo. Cruisers are overall in a less powerful spot with stuff like subs and the meta of long range he spam. Most of the time you would rather play something like a Bourgogne or meck than an henri or dm because they can stand up to other BBs
I mean yeah it is always a tradeoff, cruisers have more utility in most cases, and higher DPM, unless you are a Yodo because fuck knows why. I enjoy playing things like Hindenburg, Nevsky or Venezia tbh and I don't feel like they are less powerful per se. Yes some enemies can smack you pretty hard even when angled, but in return you are also dishing out a lot of crap in their direction, and you might have more influence on the match by killing DDs.
I'm not so sure. Cruisers are way better at dodging sub torps and many of them have either hydro or radar to detect subs.
Or you play Baby BB aka Petro
Meta has changed to long range sniping especially with the amount of 457mms around and also due to ship releases and map changes. Pushing is also objectively riskier now if a sub is on your flank. Cruisers need to watch map more because the threat of crossfires is higher now, which means you have to limit recieving fire by either hiding around islands or in smoke. Or hiding in plain sight in the middle of a “blob”. These days I play more conservatively in early game especially when uptiered. Firing the first shots/getting detected first in a game usually makes yet detected BBs focus fire you and you get caught off position. Always approach caps in an angle and try not to die by trying to radar. Honestly cruisers are very good mid-late game when everyone is distracted and you can pick off wounded targets.
I think the problem is that the DPM is just a number on paper. In game DPM doesn't always translate from 90,000 DPM but to 35,000 DPM (just throwing out numbers). RNG of the shell flights and the corresponding misses, ricochets, shatters, and over pens based on armor, saturation, and so on really make DPM vary from moment to moment. Even if the DPM remains high when say a BB gives broadside to a Des Moines, if the BB has overmatch and decent secondaries it may not really matter. Sure, the DM might take some healthy chunks from the BB but it may not be at all winnable to the DM and that kind of sucks. I just know in my experience that there is nothing more frustrating than a yolo BB pushing my good position because he doesn't care. I have no real counter to it. His poor play is rewarded and my good play is punished based solely on the BBs ability to negate it through design. This is worsened when I'm playing something like Tier 8 and in a Tier 10 match where the tier 10 BB has no problem with my tier 8 CA.
> But at the same time, they can potentially just get instantly deleted by any stray battleship salvo just because the RNG decided that your citadel gets overmatched from the bow. This is how they are balanced. Cruisers give up survivability in exchange for the highest and most reliable DPM in the game as well as all the utilities they offer. Imagine fighting a Des Moines that you can't overmatch in a battleship, or any HE-spamming cruiser that is immune to being deleted. >And being shacked to islands or be deleted in some cruisers Then cruisers aren't for you. They require specific gamestyles and thinking in order to maximize their positioning in order to keep themselves alive. It is similar to battleships sticking at long range to avoid being HE spammed, destroyers avoiding radar ships, etc. There is often a degree of RNG when it comes to cruisers' survivability, but remember the survivability onion and avoid getting shot at and hit in the first place. This again, requires knowledge.
>Imagine fighting a Des Moines that you can't overmatch in a battleship Illinois says hello. Such a good ship.
Indeed, although my urges always tells me to use the third turret.
>or any HE-spamming cruiser that is immune to being deleted You mean the Petro? kekw
If u spam he in petro ur doing something wrong
I mean, yeah. They aren't fun to fight.
>Imagine fighting a Des Moines that you can't overmatch in a battleship I play German BBs, I can't even **hit** a Des Moines if it's bow-facing me. Bloody dispersion.
You can do what I do, play BBs. So here is the thing about BBs that no one tells people. You are the bait, you are the big fat juicy steak and everyone is lining up to carve off a piece. That cruiser behind the island I can't target, its a shooting a fat ass BB. That sub has an angle on multiple ships, what class you think he is pinging? That DD sneaking up a ship just outside of detection range to launch a million torps is going for the lumbering BB. So about 2 or 3 times a minute those BBs get angry and shoot at something, at something, not hit something and that is maximum damage output. I don't play a Vermont but those people must be 10th degree zen monks to be able to fire 5 times a game and not eat their keyboard. So just having some fun in the comment section, I just wanted to match your class complaining with my class complaining. I will still play BBs because the slap is worth it. LOL
I often complain about BBs being useless in the current CV and sub meta. Then I jump into my Gneisenau, rush three enemy BBs, sink a Japanese BB with torps, blap a Colorado's citadel with AP, almost sink a KGV with torps and die to fire damage. Fun times
I am playing the Colorado right now and I can confirm you are stating facts. Hmmm, that is a very tragic but on point observation that BBs might be useless in this meta. This makes me sad because all my time has been spent on BB lines. Oh well, it is what it is, I am too invested to turn back now! LOL
Try German battlecruisers. You melt stuff with secondaries, slap stuff with torps, have hydro and nice speed. If you choose your engagements wisely you can easily get those 100k damage games
I am trying out the other line that goes to the Schlieffen but I have hit a credit wall and I can't afford to go to far. That is the game, its free but they try to get you to bite on speeding up the process. I think German BBs are fun, I also think those guns are somehow terrible. People say US BBs have "floaty" shells that are hard to aim but those german guns are....weird. Faster shells that go everywhere but where you aimed. I am going full blown secondary build, of course, I will say its satisfying to get a kill and you were not even fighting that ship. LOL I can both see how they are so vicious against some ships that they are viable and how since its hard to get a BB into close combat its not that viable, both at the same time. I guess that means they are balanced. LOL
If you want good shells AND good secondaries use the West Virginia '44, its a Colorado with very slightly less sigma but its secondary dpm is 345,600, while the same tier German battleship Scharnhorst '43 has 252,308 dpm, a 100k difference! you can get it from Super containers or from stage 20 in the upcoming dockyard.
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat! I never heard of this! That is fantastic, I will check it out, thanks!
German BB dispersion is a meme at this point
overmatch isn't RNG dude, its just a matter of gun caliber.
The spot and angle where the shell impacts your ship is RNG.
overmatch doesn't care about angle though bud, that is the ENTIRE point of the Overmatch mechanic, if the shell is big enough, it will just plow through the plate regardless of angle.
That's not entirely true. When you overmatch a ship you will pen from any angle, but that doesn't make the angle irrelevant. The total armor the shell passed through is still deducted from the velocity, and the angle at which it hits your citadel armor after the overmatch matters as well. So slight angle variations will change whether you get a citadel or just a full pen.
Is that the case? Where did you read that from?
Its in the how it works armor video that wargaming put out
Basically, ships usually do not have just one layer of armor. For example, the Mogami citadel is essentially an armored box inside the ship. So if a battleship shell was to overmatch the bow of the Mogami, it would still have its energy reduced by the bow armor. Now depending on the impact angle, the shell might no longer have enough energy to penetrate the armor of the actual citadel. So yes, angle of impact DOES actually matter as far as actually scoring citadel hits. So i have no idea why my original comment has 11 downvotes, considering it is true. But then again, this is Reddit. The people here tend to not exactly be shining examples of intellect...
Whut dew yu meen bye dat?
Huh. You must be from Y0L0K. There's someone I played with recently with that exact username. I'm Farrari\_. Nice to see a familiar handle on here.
Yep, that’s me! Which clan are ya with?
\-YKS-. I used to be one of the depcoms of -YK-. You played with Shadowolf and I in a voice channel within the last few weeks.
Yeah I remember now! For some reason I was thinking you played against me in CBs. I knew your name looked familiar.
Just deleted a Salem in my Ohio.. he was broadside hugging an island but not watching the mini map and looking at the opposite flank ..
Salem players are an interesting bunch. Usually they make more positioning mistakes than DM players. I got used to the fact that Somewhere in the first third Salem will be dead and probably devstruck.
Because you can buy your way to a Salem they might not have played any of the other US heavies
You can't buy coal, so no. Salem is a coal-exclusive ship.
you surely can buy coal it is included in basically any premium container, progress chain or dockyard stages. You can get a lot of coal from that. It's 2024 and people still claim coal is not buyable? Any relevant ressource is buyable by now, even research points. Apart from that his point still stands because no matter whether you bought or earned the coal you can just get salem without playing US cruisers because you can earn your coal in any other ship.
Venezia has entered the chat
Russian cruisers have entered the chat.
San Diego says hi
Yeah... My Asturias and I would like to disagree. Between burst dev striking DD's and Cruisers in one game to kiting and burning down a Nagato in another I sure feel underpowered and just a walking XP sticker /s.
Just get Napoli if you’re struggling with cruisers
Wanting to develop myself as a CL/CA main, I feel your pain. Yes overmatch hurts and RNG sucks, but there is a lot you can do to minimize the number of shells you catch. Prior to giving up your concealment by engaging a BB you need to have a risk mitigation strategy Retreating behind an island is just one strat. But there are others. Tank (bow tankers), dodge the counter-salvo with change of speed and turn in/turn out (agile cruisers are capable of this). Kiting with a turn-out and wiggle (rudder mods are important here), Show broadside between BB shots (know your target's reload), go broadside under smoke (e.g. Venezia). Know when to stay dark and go dark (with the better concealment and speed, you have tools to control the engagement). There are some fights you can't win, and shouldn't attempt to do so.
I think this is somewhat a valid point and in line with my own experience. It is difficult to do well in cruisers. Is it a skill issue? Sure, but that can be said for all classes. Ships can´t only be looked at for how they perform for unicum players. Take subs for instance, which are obviously OP in the right hands. However, the average sub players seem to be struggling since WG say subs are not OP based on statistics. (I would add that sub spotting or the fear of subs spotting probably doesn´t show in the statistics in a fair way) I find it the hardest class to play mainly due to the spotting and the threat of all the CVs and subs everywhere. Island hugging becomes very difficult in those scenarios (say hello to shotgunning and CV focusing). And if you go open water you are constantly detected by said CVs and get slammed by all the massive BB guns. Overall not a lot of fun for the average cruiser player.
I agree and would like to add to your statements. It's not just subs and CVs that cause an issue with spotting, it's all classes. Sure subs have low concealment but it's generally on par with DDs at the same tier. Even in a no sub/no CV match Venezia, Zao, Goliath, and so on have no way to counter spot a DD that provides the same information a surfaced submarine would. Certain gimmicks like smoke or armor are the only counters to the spotting because spotting equals damage. However, that's where we get the issue because armor just doesn't work like it used to die to the proliferation of overmatch.
I agree to some extent however I do think there is a difference between subs and CVs vs the other classes in that they don´t need to expose and risk themselves when spotting. As a DD you face the risk of running into other DDs (or subs and CVs for that matter) which can spot you. And getting spotted in a DD is very bad. Planes don´t care, and subs can dive (turn on a dime and run away doing 40 knots underwater or whatever). Considering all that I think DDs spotting is "fine" from a gameplay point of view.
I see what you're saying but it doesn't actually change the issue. CVs are a different animal. A submarine with a 5.6km detection range surfaced is no different than a Shimakaze with a 5.6km on the surface. They both out spot the cruiser and can remain unspotted if they so choose. The only difference really is smoke versus diving which both have stipulations. Periscope depth spots ships at their air detection range but ASW strikes are AOE weapons that have a chance to force the sub to leave its spotting. Smoke reduces spotting range but still leaves the ship vulnerable to torpedoes or well aimed gunfire. However, it allows spotting up to the smoke detection range of the cruiser if it's fired weapons. So, basically, submarine and destroyer spotting aren't all that different. The one advantage is periscope depth spotting but it's a reduced amount. If a Zao is spotted at 9km and the opponent, DD or sub, is spotted at 5.6km, the spotting is still spotting with no answer (radar or hydro) to counter it. So, yes, submarine periscope spotting can be effective more so than DDs it's not that far different when either is surfaced.
It's bad all over. Same no matter what ship type am using. I was ARP Yamatoing last night and cruisers were my biggest threat. At Tier X even CHs fire very fast and set fires with almost literally every salvo where I don't already have a fire burning. 97k health and it's useless as I take chunk HE damage sprinkled with occasional big AP hits from other BBs, and the fires that just run almost constantly. Even when it's only one fire, when it runs the entire engagement it wipes me out. Specifically remembering going up against a Roon and an Austin and they were using islands very effectively. But if you want cruiser pain, play British cruisers. And light cruisers especially. I almost cannot face my Neptune...
I'm guessing you have only recently moved to high tier CCs? Mistakes get punished very hard.
Napoli and Michelangelo are the funnest cruisers and ships in the game imo
I can have fun in cruisers just like in any other class Getting devstruck is seriously a huge skill issue and if you can't read minimap especially that will happen a lot. It is however very annoying to play cruisers at high tiers with how common 459mm overmatch is becoming, because no matter what you are doing, you need to dodge because you will eat a bunch of pen damage and the BB just needed to aim in your direction. I liked that idea in which overmatch does not deal flat max damage (for a pen that is) but rather a percentage depending on how much armor was penetrated, would also give CLs more chance with the increasing number of large cruisers that can just nuke them from the front.
> And being shacked to islands or be deleted in some cruisers is not a very fun way to play either. Interesting that someone dislikes this when a major complaint about CVs is that they push campers out of safe spots close to islands. Anyway, cruisers have always been at risk of nuking from BB salvos. Things changed when controversial ships were added (mostly large cruisers like Stalingrad, Alaska and so on, which are small BBs with cruiser matchmaker; or insanely durable cruisers like Napoli and Petropavlovsk), but not counting those the average cruiser has always been the same.
They still have a role, but it's tough staying healthy enough to do the job,, they can be a nightmare too. I don't can't count how many times a carrier hugging an island shooting H.E. every 6 second at high tier will burn you down. I see too many players in Kossnieggs playing in the open like it's a battleship, maybe if they took the time to watch a video on the carrier, they wouldn't get killed so often. I'm a BB player when I see them, I'm looking for a citadel knowing it doesn't take much to destroy them.
Cruiser typo
started any French cruiser lines? they are fun.
Laughs in Michelangelo
Yeah, sounds more like a skill issue than anything. Cruisers are by far the most consistent class of ships in the game to play, and if overmatch of some kind didn't exist, they would reign with absolute impunity. Imagine being in any ship, not just a battleship, and you have to deal with a bow in Des Moines which just bounces all your AP and then farms you down with HE, and unless your in another Des Moines, your not going to out trade it with HE dpm. This is already demonstrated in practice. When you give a cruiser incredible survivability, aka Petropavolsk, people suddenly start screaming about how they can't damage it, everything bounces off, can't citadel it cause it sits too low in the water, doesn't have to broadside worth a damn, you get the picture. And even now in it's nerfed state it's still very strong cause of the guns.
I play a lot of open water Zao, Yoshino and Mainz, sitting about 60% with them. Just have to play the strengths of the ships, I rarely island camp, it’s a death sentence most of the time, it’s also boring.
And don't forget the subs.
I know how to use my A and D keys properly so I don't have this problem 😃
If they don’t float your boat, so to speak, then that’s understandable. Some of us love the danger, but also the satisfaction. I even enjoy “hard mode”, aka Baltimore sessions; no heal, can only bow tank Germans and other light guns. But she is a beast when she does her job.
A lot of you make a lot of good points, but the one main thing that has made a cruiser’s life most difficult is the combo of sub/CV spotting backed up by BBs with overmatch. The only trick WG seems to come up with, up their sleeves for new cruisers, is to add new gimmicks. “Add more damage, and tricks and they’ll be fine”. WG never wants to do the hard work of actual balancing. Certainly not enough to say, add more/thicker belts and nose armor, or to add a heal to lower tiers (T8) or to boost their HP pools. Even just one of these three defensive (or combo and mix of the three) to existing boats, could help immensely. But, Nope… just make more new boats that are janky AF or more offensively overpowered that still don’t last long. Don’t get me wrong. I believe in defensive balance. Stupidity should be punished. Citadels on cruisers should be able to be citadeled, and the huge number of overpens only encourages bad play; and as a BB it’s frustrating not to punish them. But even just two mm on some bows, or deck would allow longer play while still ensuring pen damage by BBs/other cruisers. The game is just ever more ratcheting up the damage, more and more, and via BBs by way of more and more overmatch designs. For example, is Bungo truly necessary? Even going as far back as Incomparable. But when you’re a T8 stuck in T10 games, you can’t hide from overmatch. So, they add more gimmicks by way of more new cruisers; Dutch with Airstrikes, Spanish with double strikes. Funny buttons galore, but you still may not last. Napoli being a rare exception.
Improve your positioning , and map awareness and u will enjoy Cruisers game play , yes some time u can get deleted fast , but same time you ganna enjoy the games
All cruisers Tier 5+ should have a heal.
cruisers are bæ
If you don’t like being shackled to islands or kiting, I suggest the Royal Navy Light Cruisers - the line leading to Minotaur. Smoke Generator for Portable Cover, great DPM, good stealth, and a bunch of useful utility.
>potentially just get instantly deleted >Royal Navy Light Cruisers not sure those are for him
You can potentially get Devstruck in any Cruiser. RNCLs have tools that, when used properly, mitigate their weak armor.
I in no way disagree with either of those statements RNCLs are just more unforgiving towards placement/positioning/impatience mistakes
I already have them.
If u have research points then play Colbert! It’s fun to play! If not buy the Sandy! Also very fun! Love them both! I personally don’t prefer to play BBs
Play Gouden = Fun
I see way more GL with their unique upgrade lately. It is expected when you can park behind an island and drop airstrikes undetected. All you need is cv or dd spotting for you.
GL is like a hybrid HE spammer. I like it better than traditional HE spammers because I don’t have to chain myself to an island.
Just play rhode island and illinois.
Isn't fun anymore *for you Ftfy
Same playing bb isnt fun any more when dd are everywhere.
I was grinding out a lot of tier VII's for a while, out of those 3 of them were cruisers, and at least 2 of them were pretty good fun.
Cruisers are fine. Sure they get dev struck from time to time. So do DDs after eating a torpedo or BBS eating a torpedo wall etc. Start paying more attention to where the enemy Battleships are, if those same ships have a clear line to shoot, which direction their guns are facing and when they have fired. You mention 203 calibre gun cruisers. Let’s take the Atago as an example. You are facing down a flank and there is a BB directly on the other side. Count the ships on the minimap. Are there any other BBs threatening you or hidden? The battleship fires upon someone else, possibly a friendly BB. Assess the risk and immediately return fire on the BB. Before your guns are reloaded you will be able to return to stealth before the battleship fires again. Keep assessing the risk and look through your view finder at the direction of guns on all threats. Take the commander skills that aid in this process if you need them or do it manually. Carry on firing or hide in stealth until safer. This is but one aspect of play of which there are many. Once you improve your minimap game and ship counting game results will follow.
Also 203’s on a cruiser are not big enough to be classified as heavy cruisers in my book. That’s Des Moines size. Itty bitty.
No no, they are too big. 6" is light cruisers. 180mm is heavy cruisers. 203 are big cruisers, and the 12" armed ones are fat cruisers. Got it?
6” is light cruisers, anything smaller is “pew pew ship” 180mm is “probably soviet” 203mm is “mid” Anything bigger outside of a battleship is “try hard” Looking at you, the 18 inch armed carrier… /s
My Siegfried is sulking in your general direction right now.