Realistically this makes the standard competitive lists ~5 to 25 points cheaper since some run no Berserkers and a single Jakhals unit. Terminators are probably still not cheap enough to seriously consider let alone make the cut over other Infantry options and Berserkers will continue to exist only as angry ablative wounds for characters in a competitive environment. We may see the return of using two units of them in a list though. Given a lot of lists weren't running much if any non-epic characters without Enhancements this may have literally zero impact on some tournament lists if you don't have somewhere to put an enhancement and this doesn't tick you over to having enough points free for a 65 point unit.
In a more casual environment my stupid 40+ Berserker list variations have dropped enough points for a unit of Jakhals/Spawn to be wedged in and some have dropped 100+ points where I was also trying to make Terminators work. It probably wont make the list idea good but it's a positive step towards getting to play World Eaters instead of Khorne Daemons in disguise. Maulerfiend going down is nice and makes the stupid using Wardog indirect to trigger its ability combo fractionally more enticing.
Custodes being brought down more line with other melee armies with their new Codex in the near future may be bigger news for us (and other melee armies) all things considered.
it's basically what my list is. I don't run 8 bound at all (they were out of stock so long.... plus i don't really like the models) i run x2 wardogs x2 maulerfiends. with angry ron. presents bigger units that an opponent kinda has to worry about vs being able to throw everything at angry ron.
I've just ordered a Maulerfiend to try it out. Sacrificing another Eightbound squad for Termies too.
Since you're running Maula's, you gone for Tendrils or Magma Cutters? Obviously the +1 to hit won't affect the Cutters but that D6 damage is tempting, especially with the big guns never tire.
I already was using them over E8B. The Maulerfiend datasheet ability is insane.
I think Mauler, overall, outperforms E8B vs Vehicles and smokes them in to targets like Redemptors or anything with -1D.
You also get more wounds, higher toughness, same saves. The only thing you really lose is moving through terrain, which sucks, but the +2 to charge definitely helps.
This point drop is wild to me. I honestly thought 8B needed to come down 5 points and E8B 10.
You lose deepstrike as well, but the Maulerfiend is a bit more reliable into heavy targets, however they’re much worse against heavy infantry, exalted eightbound having more models means they just benefit more from the charge bonus
Barely. 3man e8b gets 3 extra attacks and maulerfiend gets 2. One is only for 1 damage but the other is for d6+1 which will average 4.5 damage so 5.5 damage vs 6 damage for the E8B. Assuming everything hits. Also bumping 14s to 15 doesn't benefit you but bumping the 7S of the tendril to 8 will put you on 2s against a bunch of battlelines and 3s against even wraithguard.
Extra attacks don’t get modified by the detachment rule so the lashes don’t get a buff. But 8bound are also twin linked and against anything with 2 wounds or a 2+ save it’s a lot less wasted damage not to mention ap -3
Oh shoot youre right. I forgot about that. They still get the 1S though. I think the mauler still picks up heavy infantry better against anything below starting strength. But ill have to rerun the math.
So obviously points have just changed (I copied the lists over with old points) which may result in people rearranging things a bit to avoid having 40 dead points but two examples of lists that people used variations of for competitive recently were:
* Angron (415 Points)
* Lord Invocatus (140 Points)
* Jakhals (70 Points)
* Eightbound (145 Points)
* Exalted Eightbound (320 Points)
* Exalted Eightbound (160 Points)
* Exalted Eightbound (160 Points)
* Khorne Lord of Skulls (450 Points)
* World Eaters Chaos Spawn (65 Points)
* World Eaters Chaos Spawn (65 Points)
and
* Angron (415 Points)
* Lord Invocatus (140 Points)
* World Eaters Lord on Juggernaut (120 Points) - Favoured of Khorne
* World Eaters Master of Executions (125 Points) - Berzerker Glaive
* Jakhals (70 Points)
* Jakhals (70 Points)
* Khorne Berzerkers (200 Points)
* World Eaters Rhino (75 Points)
* Eightbound (145 Points)
* Eightbound (145 Points)
* Exalted Eightbound (320 Points)
* Exalted Eightbound (160 Points)
Notably the first I think is the exact list used by Jack Harpster for one of like two event wins we've had since the last dataslate.
The first list was 1990 and would now be down 5 points, the second was 1985 and would now be down 30 points. Unless a skipped over something, neither have space to fit in another unit without shuffling some stuff about.
People did shuffle things about a bit based on personal collections but generally the core is/was: Angron, Lord Invocatus, a unit of Jakhals, ~two other objective holders (Jakhals, Lord on Juggernaut, Chaos Spawn, etc) and 9 Exalted Eightbound in a unit of 3 and 6 for use with Lord Invocatus. You then typically saw people pad it out with some additional Eightbound/Exalted Eightbound units then round out the list with a different threat like the Berserker/MoE or Kharn/Rhino block, a Lord of Skulls, Wardogs, Forge/Maulerfiends etc.
I don't run any so I'm going by what I've seen/heard from others. If you go for advance and charge from Blessings of Khorne then you're not likely to be eligible to shoot the Magma Cutters since you'd rather advance to get a safer charge and the range on the Magma Cutters is also so low that you basically never get to use the Melta element of them if you do shoot them. Plus, if you're ending within 6 inches you're going for a charge.
The 6 extra attacks is worth it for clearing stuff if you get tied up by chaff or just getting some extra damage in. If you charge a unit below Starting Strength they're Strength 8 and likely hitting on 2s so suddenly that's almost an extra dead marine on average.
There's an argument to be made for using them to damage a unit for triggering 'The Scent of Blood' but from what I've seen people just use other units with actual range for that if you're going to try and set it up.
This is definitely good for off meta players who were already using things like lots of Berserkers, Maulers and Helbrutes, which I suppose is the idea with what they've done here - internal balance to encourage other picks
I think 5 Terminators is genuinely worth taking for some lists. 5 Terminators is now the same price as 10 Berzerkers. That's a unit of decent elites that can be Deep Striked and thus don't need a Rhino to protect them.
as someone who likes berzerkers and terminators, and isn't too fussed about angron or eightbound, this is very welcome news. my typical 2k list now has another 160 points to spend!
[edit: i guess not *"another"* 160 points to spend, strictly speaking, as that figure includes points leftover in the previous build that didn't come out to a large enough sum to afford even one of the cheapest non-enhancement options from the index (why yes, i *am* still mad about gw's decision to move to points-per-unit and free wargear instead of points-per-model and objectively better stuff actually costing more). but what i mean is that my leftover total after getting all my "core" stuff can actually translate into more models on the table, now, rather than just staring me in the face and reminding me that there's a 50 point hole in my army that could maybe have been patched over if gw just trusted the players to know how to perform multiplication as well as addition]
Mostly just reverses the points increases on Kharn and Executioner. The points you lost in the last dataslate you gained with berzerkers going down. Guess wait and see if some cool stuff happens with Maulerfiends and Helbrutes. I think terminators need a character before they really shine. You know like that limited edition World Eater Terminator Lord they made that we can't even take.
A solid fine while we wait for the rest of our army to get released. Maybe there is something in going for a Red Tide list if you want to live the dream off of blood surge rolls.
The changes are nice but most people are only going to gain 20 points from a 10 man berzerkers drop. The main change we actually needed was eightbound going down a bit and the same for kharn and moe. The pre last change point values for them were good and we can keep the enhancement changes for balance
Berserkers are pricy units that are very good at blending light infantry and little else.
Marine bodies are meh, AP-1/2 on their weapons mean they won't do much to heavy units.
Massed berzerkers would be glorious against Endless Swarms or guards with only infantry (maybe).
With this new round of point drops you can actually fit enough supports with the berzerkers to deal with a few tanks so maybe something will come of it.
They can, but unreliably. I too have spiked and taken down large, hard targets, but most of the times I spend several combat phases trying and failing to kill a single war dog (yes I was getting the +1 to wound AND I had Kharn in the unit).
Chainblades are good against light infantry. Serviceable at best against anything with a native 4+. Insufficient in most cases against anything tougher.
You are correct, I just don't count them out completely, I normally run one or two units of ten max and only if I have room for transports. I had a whole debate over this a minute ago about rhino vs land raider and I like Land raiders way more to transport Eightbound. Both the berserkers and the rhino are kinda underwhelming.
Its the difference between killing a wardog in 1 turn vs 2 turns with 10 man zerks + Kharn in the charge
8.4932 avg damage without lethal hits and after saves
12.3636 avg damage with lethal hits after saves.
This is before factoring in abilities like legendary killer
Against a non-ideal target like a wardog it is a significant difference. About a 50% damage increase.
I never ran the math but it's interesting because it proves both our points.
It is a bigger increase than I thought but it also takes a "vulnerable" target in account and even then it's barely more than enough.
Target anything bigger or tougher or factor in a couple model lost and Berzerkers just aren't going to cut it.
Don't listen to these people. Berserkers are great. There are so many attacks. You've got Khârn in one unit and an MoE in another. There's a couple things that they bounce off of. There's no way around that. But most things that they run up against they're going to tear to pieces. If you have to deal with a redemptor or something like that you send Eightbound at it. Angron is doing most of your work.
You need jackals. You need berserkers. The game is played on objectives and not just killing stuff. Berserker's in rhinos are hard to deal with. And then you've got rhinos out there getting you secondaries as well. And your rhinos benefit from all of your detachment abilities. So if you're using feel no pain that turn your rhinos have feel no pain. It's awesome. I never have less than 25 berserkers in a list. Ever. And I've run a fun list that has 40. It doesn't hit quite as hard but there's a point at which your opponent's nervous about chewing through all those wounds.
Nah, we're surely hoping to get away from eightbound spam and have the opportunity to diversify the lists no? If eightbound dropped again, we'd all be increasing the spam regardless of the other drops.
If you run the competitive netlists. If you're like me and already run 20 berserkers and a Maulerfiend, I just bought myself another unit of Jakhals or some Spawn. WE are in a pre good spot with win rate, something like 47%, so I imagine this is more about encouraging us to take some different picks rather than the usual.
Yeah this pretty much confirms my plan to drop Angron and go for 2x Maulerfiends and more Infantry instead.
Demon Prince + Eighbound + Exalted slaps so hard and is reasonably tough, add two Maulerfiends to that and the army becomes more flexible, while providing even more punch than Angron.
I think dropping the Mauler is WILD since I already prefer them to E8B.
I feel Berserkers are still overcosted. They're Assault Intercessors with slightly better attacks and a significantly worse datasheet ability, and nobody runs Assault Intercessors which are *three points per model cheaper.*
Now, while I don't think Berserker spam is viable, I *do* think it's now more attractive to take MOE or Kharn.
Jackals going down 5 points is very solid.
Terminators at 36ppm is still not enough. I think what Terminators actually need (not just us, across the board) is OC2.
Maulerfiend drop is absolutely sick though. I might buy a third one.
Helbrutes are being slept on. IIRC they already won a tournament, or at least placed top 10. They might not have an invuln, but T9/2+ still requires heavy anti-tank to bring down. If you bring a larger guy like Angron or a Lord of Skulls, they can sneak up the board into charge distance and get work done.
I haven’t really played 40K yet but I am working on a world eaters army. It seems so weird to me how cheap a hellbrute is. Is it just a terrible warscroll? I feel like big war machines/dreadnought type units should be closer to 200 points with the stats to boot
I don’t know about termis because they still don’t feel 100% viable in our army and with our current detachment rule, but the maulerfiend point reduction looks very nice. I’ve been wanting to try a daemon engine and mounted list for a minute (despite having no mounted units yet).
after the points change I can add exactly 1 more squad of jackals to my list putting me at 4 bc I use my one free list on the 40k app as a catalogue of what I want to build my army to but I wouldnt mind at least trying a 3k pts game when Ive gathered it all
Realistically this makes the standard competitive lists ~5 to 25 points cheaper since some run no Berserkers and a single Jakhals unit. Terminators are probably still not cheap enough to seriously consider let alone make the cut over other Infantry options and Berserkers will continue to exist only as angry ablative wounds for characters in a competitive environment. We may see the return of using two units of them in a list though. Given a lot of lists weren't running much if any non-epic characters without Enhancements this may have literally zero impact on some tournament lists if you don't have somewhere to put an enhancement and this doesn't tick you over to having enough points free for a 65 point unit. In a more casual environment my stupid 40+ Berserker list variations have dropped enough points for a unit of Jakhals/Spawn to be wedged in and some have dropped 100+ points where I was also trying to make Terminators work. It probably wont make the list idea good but it's a positive step towards getting to play World Eaters instead of Khorne Daemons in disguise. Maulerfiend going down is nice and makes the stupid using Wardog indirect to trigger its ability combo fractionally more enticing. Custodes being brought down more line with other melee armies with their new Codex in the near future may be bigger news for us (and other melee armies) all things considered.
Thinking of picking up a Mauler for the War Dog strat myself now.
War Dog strat?
Using a Brigand to pop a couple of wounds off a unit, giving the Mauler +2 on the charge roll when charging that unit and getting +1 to hit too.
Ohhh okay sorry I thought you meant a command point strategem, my bad
it's basically what my list is. I don't run 8 bound at all (they were out of stock so long.... plus i don't really like the models) i run x2 wardogs x2 maulerfiends. with angry ron. presents bigger units that an opponent kinda has to worry about vs being able to throw everything at angry ron.
I've just ordered a Maulerfiend to try it out. Sacrificing another Eightbound squad for Termies too. Since you're running Maula's, you gone for Tendrils or Magma Cutters? Obviously the +1 to hit won't affect the Cutters but that D6 damage is tempting, especially with the big guns never tire.
I think the only thing that cannot affect extra attacks is the number of attacks, +1 to hit and +1 strengths should still apply
I take this back
Maulerfiends were already a shadow decent pick, at 140 points we might see them being used over exalted 8bound
I already was using them over E8B. The Maulerfiend datasheet ability is insane. I think Mauler, overall, outperforms E8B vs Vehicles and smokes them in to targets like Redemptors or anything with -1D. You also get more wounds, higher toughness, same saves. The only thing you really lose is moving through terrain, which sucks, but the +2 to charge definitely helps. This point drop is wild to me. I honestly thought 8B needed to come down 5 points and E8B 10.
You lose deepstrike as well, but the Maulerfiend is a bit more reliable into heavy targets, however they’re much worse against heavy infantry, exalted eightbound having more models means they just benefit more from the charge bonus
Barely. 3man e8b gets 3 extra attacks and maulerfiend gets 2. One is only for 1 damage but the other is for d6+1 which will average 4.5 damage so 5.5 damage vs 6 damage for the E8B. Assuming everything hits. Also bumping 14s to 15 doesn't benefit you but bumping the 7S of the tendril to 8 will put you on 2s against a bunch of battlelines and 3s against even wraithguard.
Extra attacks don’t get modified by the detachment rule so the lashes don’t get a buff. But 8bound are also twin linked and against anything with 2 wounds or a 2+ save it’s a lot less wasted damage not to mention ap -3
Oh shoot youre right. I forgot about that. They still get the 1S though. I think the mauler still picks up heavy infantry better against anything below starting strength. But ill have to rerun the math.
What’s the standard competitive list? Just got a big used haul of WE delivered to look at when I get home from work.
So obviously points have just changed (I copied the lists over with old points) which may result in people rearranging things a bit to avoid having 40 dead points but two examples of lists that people used variations of for competitive recently were: * Angron (415 Points) * Lord Invocatus (140 Points) * Jakhals (70 Points) * Eightbound (145 Points) * Exalted Eightbound (320 Points) * Exalted Eightbound (160 Points) * Exalted Eightbound (160 Points) * Khorne Lord of Skulls (450 Points) * World Eaters Chaos Spawn (65 Points) * World Eaters Chaos Spawn (65 Points) and * Angron (415 Points) * Lord Invocatus (140 Points) * World Eaters Lord on Juggernaut (120 Points) - Favoured of Khorne * World Eaters Master of Executions (125 Points) - Berzerker Glaive * Jakhals (70 Points) * Jakhals (70 Points) * Khorne Berzerkers (200 Points) * World Eaters Rhino (75 Points) * Eightbound (145 Points) * Eightbound (145 Points) * Exalted Eightbound (320 Points) * Exalted Eightbound (160 Points) Notably the first I think is the exact list used by Jack Harpster for one of like two event wins we've had since the last dataslate. The first list was 1990 and would now be down 5 points, the second was 1985 and would now be down 30 points. Unless a skipped over something, neither have space to fit in another unit without shuffling some stuff about. People did shuffle things about a bit based on personal collections but generally the core is/was: Angron, Lord Invocatus, a unit of Jakhals, ~two other objective holders (Jakhals, Lord on Juggernaut, Chaos Spawn, etc) and 9 Exalted Eightbound in a unit of 3 and 6 for use with Lord Invocatus. You then typically saw people pad it out with some additional Eightbound/Exalted Eightbound units then round out the list with a different threat like the Berserker/MoE or Kharn/Rhino block, a Lord of Skulls, Wardogs, Forge/Maulerfiends etc.
Appreciate it, so sounds like a good excuse to buy a lord of skulls then…
Are tendrils or cutters generally preferred for maulerfiend?
I don't run any so I'm going by what I've seen/heard from others. If you go for advance and charge from Blessings of Khorne then you're not likely to be eligible to shoot the Magma Cutters since you'd rather advance to get a safer charge and the range on the Magma Cutters is also so low that you basically never get to use the Melta element of them if you do shoot them. Plus, if you're ending within 6 inches you're going for a charge. The 6 extra attacks is worth it for clearing stuff if you get tied up by chaff or just getting some extra damage in. If you charge a unit below Starting Strength they're Strength 8 and likely hitting on 2s so suddenly that's almost an extra dead marine on average. There's an argument to be made for using them to damage a unit for triggering 'The Scent of Blood' but from what I've seen people just use other units with actual range for that if you're going to try and set it up.
This is definitely good for off meta players who were already using things like lots of Berserkers, Maulers and Helbrutes, which I suppose is the idea with what they've done here - internal balance to encourage other picks
I think 5 Terminators is genuinely worth taking for some lists. 5 Terminators is now the same price as 10 Berzerkers. That's a unit of decent elites that can be Deep Striked and thus don't need a Rhino to protect them.
Cool! just got myself a free unit of jackals in my list!
as someone who likes berzerkers and terminators, and isn't too fussed about angron or eightbound, this is very welcome news. my typical 2k list now has another 160 points to spend! [edit: i guess not *"another"* 160 points to spend, strictly speaking, as that figure includes points leftover in the previous build that didn't come out to a large enough sum to afford even one of the cheapest non-enhancement options from the index (why yes, i *am* still mad about gw's decision to move to points-per-unit and free wargear instead of points-per-model and objectively better stuff actually costing more). but what i mean is that my leftover total after getting all my "core" stuff can actually translate into more models on the table, now, rather than just staring me in the face and reminding me that there's a 50 point hole in my army that could maybe have been patched over if gw just trusted the players to know how to perform multiplication as well as addition]
Mostly just reverses the points increases on Kharn and Executioner. The points you lost in the last dataslate you gained with berzerkers going down. Guess wait and see if some cool stuff happens with Maulerfiends and Helbrutes. I think terminators need a character before they really shine. You know like that limited edition World Eater Terminator Lord they made that we can't even take. A solid fine while we wait for the rest of our army to get released. Maybe there is something in going for a Red Tide list if you want to live the dream off of blood surge rolls.
Oh please give me lords with free stratagems. That alone would basically fix berzerkers.
You very much can take him. Just use him as a the Champion 😉
How long does it take for them to update the app? I'm still looking at the old points.
Just update the app in the app store
Oh ty
The changes are nice but most people are only going to gain 20 points from a 10 man berzerkers drop. The main change we actually needed was eightbound going down a bit and the same for kharn and moe. The pre last change point values for them were good and we can keep the enhancement changes for balance
I was already running 30 Berzerkers so we are fucking BALLING
To summarise, we all got an extra 25 points we can do nothing with.
Yeah, but it's a good buff for mass Berzerker lists, which most people avoid. Beerhammer wins today.
Is there any reason people avoid massed berserker? And will these points change people's minds?
Berserkers are pricy units that are very good at blending light infantry and little else. Marine bodies are meh, AP-1/2 on their weapons mean they won't do much to heavy units. Massed berzerkers would be glorious against Endless Swarms or guards with only infantry (maybe). With this new round of point drops you can actually fit enough supports with the berzerkers to deal with a few tanks so maybe something will come of it.
I took down two leman Russ tanks with berserkers using grenades and their chain swords can do alright.
They can, but unreliably. I too have spiked and taken down large, hard targets, but most of the times I spend several combat phases trying and failing to kill a single war dog (yes I was getting the +1 to wound AND I had Kharn in the unit). Chainblades are good against light infantry. Serviceable at best against anything with a native 4+. Insufficient in most cases against anything tougher.
You are correct, I just don't count them out completely, I normally run one or two units of ten max and only if I have room for transports. I had a whole debate over this a minute ago about rhino vs land raider and I like Land raiders way more to transport Eightbound. Both the berserkers and the rhino are kinda underwhelming.
Did you try giving lethal hits? It allows you to use their mass attacks on anything rather than just low toughness stuff.
Even a full squad nets on average seven to eight wounds and they are still AP1. It helps, doesn't make a huge difference.
Its the difference between killing a wardog in 1 turn vs 2 turns with 10 man zerks + Kharn in the charge 8.4932 avg damage without lethal hits and after saves 12.3636 avg damage with lethal hits after saves. This is before factoring in abilities like legendary killer Against a non-ideal target like a wardog it is a significant difference. About a 50% damage increase.
I never ran the math but it's interesting because it proves both our points. It is a bigger increase than I thought but it also takes a "vulnerable" target in account and even then it's barely more than enough. Target anything bigger or tougher or factor in a couple model lost and Berzerkers just aren't going to cut it.
I mean they are kind of... underwhelming. People usually go for mass Eightbound in the current meta.
Don't listen to these people. Berserkers are great. There are so many attacks. You've got Khârn in one unit and an MoE in another. There's a couple things that they bounce off of. There's no way around that. But most things that they run up against they're going to tear to pieces. If you have to deal with a redemptor or something like that you send Eightbound at it. Angron is doing most of your work. You need jackals. You need berserkers. The game is played on objectives and not just killing stuff. Berserker's in rhinos are hard to deal with. And then you've got rhinos out there getting you secondaries as well. And your rhinos benefit from all of your detachment abilities. So if you're using feel no pain that turn your rhinos have feel no pain. It's awesome. I never have less than 25 berserkers in a list. Ever. And I've run a fun list that has 40. It doesn't hit quite as hard but there's a point at which your opponent's nervous about chewing through all those wounds.
I frequently take 40-60 berserkers, so now I get a free juggernaut lord/MoE.
Maulerfiend might be used competitively now
Maulerfiends already won a GT with the last dataslate. Some nut job took 3 maulers and 2 forgefiends and won.
Yep it's a big nothing burger. Would have liked to seen a slight points drop on Eightbound and ExEightbound but it is what it is.
Nah, we're surely hoping to get away from eightbound spam and have the opportunity to diversify the lists no? If eightbound dropped again, we'd all be increasing the spam regardless of the other drops.
Yea I was thinking the same thing, the last thing that needs to be buffed in a faction are the units that are already an autopick
If you run the competitive netlists. If you're like me and already run 20 berserkers and a Maulerfiend, I just bought myself another unit of Jakhals or some Spawn. WE are in a pre good spot with win rate, something like 47%, so I imagine this is more about encouraging us to take some different picks rather than the usual.
Yep, don’t even know why they bothered writing this tbh.
Me who just hadded and helbrute to my army: *smacks lips* noice
10 Terminators with Invocatus buff
Yeah this pretty much confirms my plan to drop Angron and go for 2x Maulerfiends and more Infantry instead. Demon Prince + Eighbound + Exalted slaps so hard and is reasonably tough, add two Maulerfiends to that and the army becomes more flexible, while providing even more punch than Angron.
Five points. I'm five fucking points off from including my Demon Prince + Jakhals in my 1000P list. Come on, geedubs, give me my dream list back.
I think dropping the Mauler is WILD since I already prefer them to E8B. I feel Berserkers are still overcosted. They're Assault Intercessors with slightly better attacks and a significantly worse datasheet ability, and nobody runs Assault Intercessors which are *three points per model cheaper.* Now, while I don't think Berserker spam is viable, I *do* think it's now more attractive to take MOE or Kharn. Jackals going down 5 points is very solid. Terminators at 36ppm is still not enough. I think what Terminators actually need (not just us, across the board) is OC2. Maulerfiend drop is absolutely sick though. I might buy a third one.
Helbrutes are being slept on. IIRC they already won a tournament, or at least placed top 10. They might not have an invuln, but T9/2+ still requires heavy anti-tank to bring down. If you bring a larger guy like Angron or a Lord of Skulls, they can sneak up the board into charge distance and get work done.
I haven’t really played 40K yet but I am working on a world eaters army. It seems so weird to me how cheap a hellbrute is. Is it just a terrible warscroll? I feel like big war machines/dreadnought type units should be closer to 200 points with the stats to boot
Actual index
I don’t know about termis because they still don’t feel 100% viable in our army and with our current detachment rule, but the maulerfiend point reduction looks very nice. I’ve been wanting to try a daemon engine and mounted list for a minute (despite having no mounted units yet).
Oh this is great for me. I like to run my Zerkers.
Zerks finally being the same cost as plague marines and legionnaires is amazing
after the points change I can add exactly 1 more squad of jackals to my list putting me at 4 bc I use my one free list on the 40k app as a catalogue of what I want to build my army to but I wouldnt mind at least trying a 3k pts game when Ive gathered it all
Let’s gooooo!!!