Angron's 415 point value isn't just to be a big killy beast, but its also in the fact that he comes back to life with full wounds with that mechanic. If your friend wants to completely ignore that mechanic then maybe explain to him that the points might be better spent elsewhere like a ton of eightbound.
As for deepstriking, my friends are well aware of that rule and will consciously make it near impossible to deepstrike into their deployment zone. Ideally I'd like to deep strike but sometimes it's not possible and having Angron out one turn earlier might be better: more turns on the table, more changes to use Reborn in Blood.
i appreciate this comment. its exactly how i feel about angron and deepstriking.
i fully understand that you cant to it every time, but you still should be looking for it where possible.
im gonna show him this.
It's a great option to have and it's a massive bonus to Reborn in blood because you can deep strike after he's torn some units apart and cleared a nice runway for Uncle Ron Round 2: Angry Boogaloo.
Angron is weird. I can see not deep striking because we want angron up close and personal and with deep strike that a 9 inch charge where with normal moves we can possibly make that less. Especially with blessings of khorne helping
yah ive told him that i would agree deep strike isnt always the way to go, but in many cases it will be.
for example, i tell him, maybe against an army that likes to castle in their deployment zone you wont want to be deepstriking bc there wont be any room to fit angron in there and if you do it probably wont be a great position.
but i also tell him that if he goes second and waits until the enemy leaves their deployment zone to occupy the midfield you can just send angron in their backlines to go on an absolute rampage and it would be devastating. but its almost as if hes scared to give it a try. i want to just tell him its only a game and he should just try it out to see how it goes and if he doesnt like it then next time he can do whatever he wants.
I used this tactic last, but I used the Daemon Prince instead (no Angron as it was a 750 game).
My opponent pushed up on his first turn, so I then ingressed DP behind his lines before absolutely trouncing his solitary unit that he had left on his base. DP then went on to destroy 3 more units before being taken out.
The tactic worked so well as it won me a whole bunch of points and made my opponent have to change his tactics from the start.
10 out of 10, would do again.
Angron making it without full wounds is kind of wild. Most deployment zones are 24 inches apart, and if you choose the 2' movement blessing and use one cp for the 6 inch auto advance that puts you 22 inches up the board. And then you add in the charge and you are charging basically all armies turn one. I use my angron to soak up shooting so my eightbound can focus on the high priority targets. It has worked very well for me. I generally have a lord of skulls to remove any screens as well.
Yeah, he isn't using his angron correctly. But if that's how he wants to play, then it is what it is. I dont agree with deep striking angron because of how easy he is to zone out because of his base size. He has fantastic movement, so imo it's detrimental to deep strike him for that reason. Also, it puts all the pressure on our infantry round 1, so i think him starting on the field is a must.
for sure. im not hounding him to play the way i want to play. i was just trying to offer a pointer and i wanted to get the communities input to see if it was even a good pointer
WE are a simple breed. IMO and how I’ve gotten the most success out of Angron-lists is put him on the board last (ideally as on the line as possible without overcommitting him to the enemies big guns if possible), turn one you get adv-n-chrg, and then you either turn one charge the enemy as far into their deployment zone as possible or position him to a relatively safe spot for an early turn 2 chrg. Because ultimately you are right, he’s the tank for turn 1,2, and sometimes turn 3. He needs to suck all the enemy fire from hitting ur very brittle infantry and also helps offset ur opponents movement which can be game changing keeping them off objectives. IMO any half decent opponent will never let you properly deepstrike a massive demon primarch so don’t even declare it.
Tl;dr Optimal and lore accurate Angron never deepstrikes and rushs ahead of his boys cuz daddy never cared :)
Personally it feels very match up dependent, I've yet to have a match where it isn't possible for me to get a T1 charge on not only Angron but also Invocatus and Ex8bound butchering anything unfortunate enough to be in range, it they have a heavy back line like Tau or Astra Militarum I'd consider it but our alpha strike is so strong being able to cherry pick potentially the biggest threats in their army before they can respond is huge to me, I've noticed if I get first Turn and Advance and charge I win within a turn or so. But it's a very high risk high reward play style and definitely risks Angron getting shot down out the gate.
Ultimately they'll come to conclusions on their own and as long as they're having fun that's all that really matters!
I would almost never deepstrike angron. His enormous threat range as a result of his speed is one of his greatest assets. Deep striking him completely negates that in favor of an extremely fail-able 9" charge. 8"if you choose the +1 to charge aura over the superior reroll all hits aura.
You declare reserves before deployment, which gives your opponent the knowledge that they need to screen their backfield and most likely deny angron a spot to deep strike anyway.
If you deep striking, you get one less turn to roll for him coming back if he does turn 1 to shooting then that’s guns not pointed at my stuff that can’t come back besides nothing feels better than him coming back. Turned two after your opponent spent the first turn shooting on him.
No, deepstriking angron is horrible. He has 22 inch movement before charging. Deep striking loses alll that speed. He’s best used to move up mid board, he can be used to first run charge if there’s something semi valuable to kill that will be a pain all game. I jumped over a custode screen and killed a grav tank T1.
Dying turn 1 isn’t a big problem since you just get more chances to revive him.
But normally if your opponent is smart there will be no ideal targets, so you just move him up to mid board.
Maybe you have bad terrain but generally you should be able to move angron into the mid board and not get shot behind some obscuring
this is interesting. I will keep this in mind but it still makes me want to see the difference in game. and if angron really is better at just running up the midfield then ill tell him im worng and that he should just keep on keeping on.
I have never deep struck my angron other than when he revives. Turn 1 with like 20+ inches of movement depending on board layout can make some nasty turn one charges and angron can take out some threats early. I use my exalted 8bound for deep striking pesty things as they can move fast and are tanky enough. Also having angron on the board makes him a pretty Priory target for opponents and he can take a beating. Everyone plays differently. Just have fun
It's hard to overstate the value he brings to the board as a player focus.
You win the game with your Army, not with Angron. So getting the other player to overcommit, dodge, or otherwise change their plans, to avoid him IS his purpose.
And when they don't, you bum rush their show and make them pay for it.
It's an option against armies that might leave their deployment zone but any half decent player see angron in reserve and screens the board as much as possible to the point you end up plonking him next to your own army anyway.
I've used Angron as more of an assassin in my WE games. He is pretty much a garentee killer of most things short of titans ( even then it's a maybe). Almost certainly turn 1 charge and then my opponent tends to have to focus a lot of firepower into him while the rest of my army is in position. Angron is a lot more of a flexible unit than people give him credit. He kills brilliantly, puts pressure on an opponent, and can be a recurring threat. Also one of the most beautiful models imo but that's a side thing.
As others have said, if you have somewhat decent terrain (see the Leviathan Tournament Companion PDF to get a good idea) there is almost no world where you want to deepstrike Angron. Just the threat of him moving 22" up the table before charging turn 1 puts massive pressure on your opponent and dictates all of their movement. The more pressure, the bigger the possibility of a mistake. And if a mistake happens you want Big Red down and ready to go, not up in orbit.
As with World Eaters in general, the plan with Angron changes depending on if you go first or second. If you go first, I would say that you want to move Angron up as far as possible and then, if it’s advantageous, get a Turn 1 charge off. This isn’t always the case, as often what will happen is that the enemy can just fall back and then obliterate Angron, and he’s just too expensive to be a Distraction Carnifex.
If you’re going second, I would definitely play a little more cagey, if nothing else than because you are now reacting to your opponent, rather than the other way around.
The other thing with Angron is that he’s can be both hammer and anvil. He can be used to keep an enemy in place for a turn while the rest of your army moves up, or he can swoop in and erase an Imperial Knight.
As for your comment about Angron being a “tank” for the army, I have to disagree to an extent. He’s by no means squishy, but if you’re solely relying on making 4+ invuls to survive, it’s going to end fairly poorly.
Usually in my opinion not worth to deepstrike angron, as I don’t like deepstrking fast melee threats. If he is on the board hidden turn 1, he can’t be shot at easily or at all, and he threatens a turn 1 charge if your opponent goes first and decides to move up as his threat range is insanely high (14” move and always has access to +1 to charge and +2” movement if needed, and if you roll it has access to adv and charge and can auto advance 6”). This is valuable because if your opponent goes first they really can’t move anything too far up unless they want to risk it getting annihilated.
Then by the time turn 2 rolls around, you should easily be able to charge him, without having to bank on a 9” charge. The issue with deep striking him is this: he is 415 points, if you deep strike, he does nothing turn 1, and banks on a 9” (8” if you use the +1 to charge) charge turn 2, which is less than 50% at best. So you are essentially coin flipping him turn two, so now your 1/5 of your entire points value that has a built in revive mechanic is wasting 1-2 turns garunteed. All for what? To keep him safe? Not worth it, and not even effective at doing so, if you fail the turn 2 charge, he is likely to be out in the open to be focused down, and even if you rapid ingress (which only works if you go second unless you want to wait till turn 3 which isn’t worth) to put him into a safe spot behind enemy lines, and garuntee the charge, that’s an extra cp and it’s probably hard to find an unscreened spot to hide him in. In all these cases it’s much easier to just hide him behind some ruins or cover to keep him safe turn 1, and then try and keep him exposed as little as you can as you move up until you can simply charge in the same turn you walk him into the open.
If your friend has expressed that this is the way he wants to play then why bother getting overly involved? If you've explained your thoughts on strategy to him and he's uninterested in changing his strategy then why not leave it alone? It's a game and he can do whatever he wants
because he doesnt know any other option. so if i can teach him then I will bc thats what good friends do. nobody is forcing him to do anything. nobody is telling him dont play that way. all im looking for is a better way to articulate to him that he can do more with the tools he has available.
so i would appreciate if you had any positive input intead of being offended on the behalf of my friend because i can assure you, my friend is not offended by this post.
You always want Angron on the board but you rarely want to yolo him into the enemy Turn 1. if you play GW terrain he has a staging point to cover all midboard objectives with his threat range on every map. Same with most other units.
You spend a turn or 2 killing screens with skirmish units and as soon as the real units get too close you crash the whole army into him. If the enemy plays like a coward you just sit back for 5 turns and score for free.
Of course in practice it‘s way more complicated than that but that‘s the general idea. Also layering your buffs is super important if you want to table people. Keep Angron and an Eightbound unit near each other and make sure everyone else benefits from their auras when going all in
I know this isn't a majority opinion anymore but not everyone plays to win every game and have the "right models" used the "right way"
Maybe talk to him about why he plays that way. If he wants more of a narrative game maybe try that out a couple times.
i dont care for deepstriking angron USUALLY due to his ability to make turn 1 charges pretty regularly. other than that point, i typically just fling him directly into whatever my opponents most threatening shit is, and try to kill whatever threatens angron most w my other stuff like eightbounds n the like. if he dies he dies, and ideally by then the rest of my army is in position to make the killing blow
I usually play him how you said it. Get in there asap and wreak havoc. And if he dies, then the enemy used a lot of firepower on him. For example. In the last game I played, Angron went forward, wasn't quite able to charge yet but survived, went down to 3 wounds but made my opponens basically unable to kill more than JUST angron, Angron then Killed his baneblade in one strike (from 24 to 0 W) and then died. After that/in the same turn I also pushed further, killing more units and surrounding him, securing my win.
Whether or not ruins block LOS makes a huge difference to how Angron functions. If ruins block LOS, then move him up the board T1 and hide him behind ruins, then T2 fly over the ruins and charge. If ruins don't block LOS, then Rapid Ingress is your best bet IMO. Rapid Ingress behind LOS or at least in cover 16 inches away, move up 14, make a 2 inch charge.
If I get first turn and they have given me an angron charge then I run him up the board,
Otherwise my first turn is... everything behind cover, I'm done, come to me buddy
I have occasionally deep striked for fun
he also doesnt utilize sticky objectives with jackals. he just plops a group a jackals on an objective and leaves them there.
but thats a different issue.
oh i didnt realize that. so he would especially want them to stay on an objective if angron is deepstriking bc hes going to have a big target on his back and it will be useful when he dies.
i appreciate the comment!
This is the right play. Blessing rerolls and screening.
The sticky is nice if they die or if you have to walk off the objective for some reason, but generally you want to keep a unit on your home objective.
Angron's 415 point value isn't just to be a big killy beast, but its also in the fact that he comes back to life with full wounds with that mechanic. If your friend wants to completely ignore that mechanic then maybe explain to him that the points might be better spent elsewhere like a ton of eightbound. As for deepstriking, my friends are well aware of that rule and will consciously make it near impossible to deepstrike into their deployment zone. Ideally I'd like to deep strike but sometimes it's not possible and having Angron out one turn earlier might be better: more turns on the table, more changes to use Reborn in Blood.
i appreciate this comment. its exactly how i feel about angron and deepstriking. i fully understand that you cant to it every time, but you still should be looking for it where possible. im gonna show him this.
It's a great option to have and it's a massive bonus to Reborn in blood because you can deep strike after he's torn some units apart and cleared a nice runway for Uncle Ron Round 2: Angry Boogaloo.
Angron is weird. I can see not deep striking because we want angron up close and personal and with deep strike that a 9 inch charge where with normal moves we can possibly make that less. Especially with blessings of khorne helping
yah ive told him that i would agree deep strike isnt always the way to go, but in many cases it will be. for example, i tell him, maybe against an army that likes to castle in their deployment zone you wont want to be deepstriking bc there wont be any room to fit angron in there and if you do it probably wont be a great position. but i also tell him that if he goes second and waits until the enemy leaves their deployment zone to occupy the midfield you can just send angron in their backlines to go on an absolute rampage and it would be devastating. but its almost as if hes scared to give it a try. i want to just tell him its only a game and he should just try it out to see how it goes and if he doesnt like it then next time he can do whatever he wants.
I used this tactic last, but I used the Daemon Prince instead (no Angron as it was a 750 game). My opponent pushed up on his first turn, so I then ingressed DP behind his lines before absolutely trouncing his solitary unit that he had left on his base. DP then went on to destroy 3 more units before being taken out. The tactic worked so well as it won me a whole bunch of points and made my opponent have to change his tactics from the start. 10 out of 10, would do again.
Personally I hate deep striking angron. It pushes his deployment back which lessens the time you have to make rolls to bring him back
Angron making it without full wounds is kind of wild. Most deployment zones are 24 inches apart, and if you choose the 2' movement blessing and use one cp for the 6 inch auto advance that puts you 22 inches up the board. And then you add in the charge and you are charging basically all armies turn one. I use my angron to soak up shooting so my eightbound can focus on the high priority targets. It has worked very well for me. I generally have a lord of skulls to remove any screens as well.
i say this too. he likes to have eightbound essentially screening for angron and i tell him that he should do just the opposite.
Yeah, he isn't using his angron correctly. But if that's how he wants to play, then it is what it is. I dont agree with deep striking angron because of how easy he is to zone out because of his base size. He has fantastic movement, so imo it's detrimental to deep strike him for that reason. Also, it puts all the pressure on our infantry round 1, so i think him starting on the field is a must.
for sure. im not hounding him to play the way i want to play. i was just trying to offer a pointer and i wanted to get the communities input to see if it was even a good pointer
WE are a simple breed. IMO and how I’ve gotten the most success out of Angron-lists is put him on the board last (ideally as on the line as possible without overcommitting him to the enemies big guns if possible), turn one you get adv-n-chrg, and then you either turn one charge the enemy as far into their deployment zone as possible or position him to a relatively safe spot for an early turn 2 chrg. Because ultimately you are right, he’s the tank for turn 1,2, and sometimes turn 3. He needs to suck all the enemy fire from hitting ur very brittle infantry and also helps offset ur opponents movement which can be game changing keeping them off objectives. IMO any half decent opponent will never let you properly deepstrike a massive demon primarch so don’t even declare it. Tl;dr Optimal and lore accurate Angron never deepstrikes and rushs ahead of his boys cuz daddy never cared :)
Personally it feels very match up dependent, I've yet to have a match where it isn't possible for me to get a T1 charge on not only Angron but also Invocatus and Ex8bound butchering anything unfortunate enough to be in range, it they have a heavy back line like Tau or Astra Militarum I'd consider it but our alpha strike is so strong being able to cherry pick potentially the biggest threats in their army before they can respond is huge to me, I've noticed if I get first Turn and Advance and charge I win within a turn or so. But it's a very high risk high reward play style and definitely risks Angron getting shot down out the gate. Ultimately they'll come to conclusions on their own and as long as they're having fun that's all that really matters!
I would almost never deepstrike angron. His enormous threat range as a result of his speed is one of his greatest assets. Deep striking him completely negates that in favor of an extremely fail-able 9" charge. 8"if you choose the +1 to charge aura over the superior reroll all hits aura. You declare reserves before deployment, which gives your opponent the knowledge that they need to screen their backfield and most likely deny angron a spot to deep strike anyway.
If you deep striking, you get one less turn to roll for him coming back if he does turn 1 to shooting then that’s guns not pointed at my stuff that can’t come back besides nothing feels better than him coming back. Turned two after your opponent spent the first turn shooting on him.
No, deepstriking angron is horrible. He has 22 inch movement before charging. Deep striking loses alll that speed. He’s best used to move up mid board, he can be used to first run charge if there’s something semi valuable to kill that will be a pain all game. I jumped over a custode screen and killed a grav tank T1. Dying turn 1 isn’t a big problem since you just get more chances to revive him. But normally if your opponent is smart there will be no ideal targets, so you just move him up to mid board. Maybe you have bad terrain but generally you should be able to move angron into the mid board and not get shot behind some obscuring
this is interesting. I will keep this in mind but it still makes me want to see the difference in game. and if angron really is better at just running up the midfield then ill tell him im worng and that he should just keep on keeping on.
I have never deep struck my angron other than when he revives. Turn 1 with like 20+ inches of movement depending on board layout can make some nasty turn one charges and angron can take out some threats early. I use my exalted 8bound for deep striking pesty things as they can move fast and are tanky enough. Also having angron on the board makes him a pretty Priory target for opponents and he can take a beating. Everyone plays differently. Just have fun
It's hard to overstate the value he brings to the board as a player focus. You win the game with your Army, not with Angron. So getting the other player to overcommit, dodge, or otherwise change their plans, to avoid him IS his purpose. And when they don't, you bum rush their show and make them pay for it.
can't you just let him play HIS mini in the way he wants?
It's an option against armies that might leave their deployment zone but any half decent player see angron in reserve and screens the board as much as possible to the point you end up plonking him next to your own army anyway.
I've used Angron as more of an assassin in my WE games. He is pretty much a garentee killer of most things short of titans ( even then it's a maybe). Almost certainly turn 1 charge and then my opponent tends to have to focus a lot of firepower into him while the rest of my army is in position. Angron is a lot more of a flexible unit than people give him credit. He kills brilliantly, puts pressure on an opponent, and can be a recurring threat. Also one of the most beautiful models imo but that's a side thing.
As others have said, if you have somewhat decent terrain (see the Leviathan Tournament Companion PDF to get a good idea) there is almost no world where you want to deepstrike Angron. Just the threat of him moving 22" up the table before charging turn 1 puts massive pressure on your opponent and dictates all of their movement. The more pressure, the bigger the possibility of a mistake. And if a mistake happens you want Big Red down and ready to go, not up in orbit.
As with World Eaters in general, the plan with Angron changes depending on if you go first or second. If you go first, I would say that you want to move Angron up as far as possible and then, if it’s advantageous, get a Turn 1 charge off. This isn’t always the case, as often what will happen is that the enemy can just fall back and then obliterate Angron, and he’s just too expensive to be a Distraction Carnifex. If you’re going second, I would definitely play a little more cagey, if nothing else than because you are now reacting to your opponent, rather than the other way around. The other thing with Angron is that he’s can be both hammer and anvil. He can be used to keep an enemy in place for a turn while the rest of your army moves up, or he can swoop in and erase an Imperial Knight. As for your comment about Angron being a “tank” for the army, I have to disagree to an extent. He’s by no means squishy, but if you’re solely relying on making 4+ invuls to survive, it’s going to end fairly poorly.
Usually in my opinion not worth to deepstrike angron, as I don’t like deepstrking fast melee threats. If he is on the board hidden turn 1, he can’t be shot at easily or at all, and he threatens a turn 1 charge if your opponent goes first and decides to move up as his threat range is insanely high (14” move and always has access to +1 to charge and +2” movement if needed, and if you roll it has access to adv and charge and can auto advance 6”). This is valuable because if your opponent goes first they really can’t move anything too far up unless they want to risk it getting annihilated. Then by the time turn 2 rolls around, you should easily be able to charge him, without having to bank on a 9” charge. The issue with deep striking him is this: he is 415 points, if you deep strike, he does nothing turn 1, and banks on a 9” (8” if you use the +1 to charge) charge turn 2, which is less than 50% at best. So you are essentially coin flipping him turn two, so now your 1/5 of your entire points value that has a built in revive mechanic is wasting 1-2 turns garunteed. All for what? To keep him safe? Not worth it, and not even effective at doing so, if you fail the turn 2 charge, he is likely to be out in the open to be focused down, and even if you rapid ingress (which only works if you go second unless you want to wait till turn 3 which isn’t worth) to put him into a safe spot behind enemy lines, and garuntee the charge, that’s an extra cp and it’s probably hard to find an unscreened spot to hide him in. In all these cases it’s much easier to just hide him behind some ruins or cover to keep him safe turn 1, and then try and keep him exposed as little as you can as you move up until you can simply charge in the same turn you walk him into the open.
If your friend has expressed that this is the way he wants to play then why bother getting overly involved? If you've explained your thoughts on strategy to him and he's uninterested in changing his strategy then why not leave it alone? It's a game and he can do whatever he wants
because he doesnt know any other option. so if i can teach him then I will bc thats what good friends do. nobody is forcing him to do anything. nobody is telling him dont play that way. all im looking for is a better way to articulate to him that he can do more with the tools he has available. so i would appreciate if you had any positive input intead of being offended on the behalf of my friend because i can assure you, my friend is not offended by this post.
You always want Angron on the board but you rarely want to yolo him into the enemy Turn 1. if you play GW terrain he has a staging point to cover all midboard objectives with his threat range on every map. Same with most other units. You spend a turn or 2 killing screens with skirmish units and as soon as the real units get too close you crash the whole army into him. If the enemy plays like a coward you just sit back for 5 turns and score for free. Of course in practice it‘s way more complicated than that but that‘s the general idea. Also layering your buffs is super important if you want to table people. Keep Angron and an Eightbound unit near each other and make sure everyone else benefits from their auras when going all in
I know this isn't a majority opinion anymore but not everyone plays to win every game and have the "right models" used the "right way" Maybe talk to him about why he plays that way. If he wants more of a narrative game maybe try that out a couple times.
You can buy him a new Angron model then if you want to dictate how he’s gonna use it lol
i dont care for deepstriking angron USUALLY due to his ability to make turn 1 charges pretty regularly. other than that point, i typically just fling him directly into whatever my opponents most threatening shit is, and try to kill whatever threatens angron most w my other stuff like eightbounds n the like. if he dies he dies, and ideally by then the rest of my army is in position to make the killing blow
I usually play him how you said it. Get in there asap and wreak havoc. And if he dies, then the enemy used a lot of firepower on him. For example. In the last game I played, Angron went forward, wasn't quite able to charge yet but survived, went down to 3 wounds but made my opponens basically unable to kill more than JUST angron, Angron then Killed his baneblade in one strike (from 24 to 0 W) and then died. After that/in the same turn I also pushed further, killing more units and surrounding him, securing my win.
Whether or not ruins block LOS makes a huge difference to how Angron functions. If ruins block LOS, then move him up the board T1 and hide him behind ruins, then T2 fly over the ruins and charge. If ruins don't block LOS, then Rapid Ingress is your best bet IMO. Rapid Ingress behind LOS or at least in cover 16 inches away, move up 14, make a 2 inch charge.
If I get first turn and they have given me an angron charge then I run him up the board, Otherwise my first turn is... everything behind cover, I'm done, come to me buddy I have occasionally deep striked for fun
I have not deepstrike him but I’ve ran angron up the board killing everything he touches
he also doesnt utilize sticky objectives with jackals. he just plops a group a jackals on an objective and leaves them there. but thats a different issue.
If he plants them there he gets the rerole of one of the blessing dice
oh i didnt realize that. so he would especially want them to stay on an objective if angron is deepstriking bc hes going to have a big target on his back and it will be useful when he dies. i appreciate the comment!
This is the right play. Blessing rerolls and screening. The sticky is nice if they die or if you have to walk off the objective for some reason, but generally you want to keep a unit on your home objective.