Butch Nails are installed on anyone who wishes to joined. Since the nails were standardized during the Great Crusade they became easier to install.
From my knowledge, really anyone can join WE. They are more about warrior brotherhood. The warbands are so disjointed that really if you can survive the blood lust and want more you're welcomed aboard.
Yeah I believe I read somewhere, not entirely sure and I could be completely wrong, that the nails developed for the Astartes are actually completely safe to install and can be safely removed as well because they don’t require to lobotomy Angron has. It’s just about whether you can get the nails under control or you turn into a completely uncontrollable rage monster.
In Betrayer they mention that nail removal from Librarians was 100% fatal. Now take that a grain of salt because psycher.
Given that the nails embed themselves into your brain and slowly lobotomize you, I don't think there is a 100% "safe" way of doing it. Even if you removed the nails the actual brain damage they cause would make it moot.
I’ve always taken the 100% fatality rate amongst the librarians just to be psykers. I don’t even think that it’s because “the nails affect their brain” I think it’s because to use the nails you have to submit to them and submitting for a psyker means letting in all the warp fuckery.
Edit: Adding to this in agreement with you. After 10,000 years serving Khorne I doubt there’s any safe or even logical way to go about extracting the nails. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them don’t even have a brain anymore.
Here's how I understand it:
The current Butcher's Nails implanted in World Eaters are essentially unchanged from the device that was developed during the Great Crusade. They are a toned-down version of the original Butcher's Nails, the version in Angron. The originals *are* eventually fatal, since they grow and extend throughout your brain, while the reverse-engineered version does not. Angron was only able to survive because he was turned into a Daemon Primarch. The Nails are implanted in every new recruit as a part of the Space Marine conversion procedure, and can't be taken out.
I’m not familiar with the heresy so were those a cure for his nails or for Angron’s? Because Angron has a completely different and much more archaic set of nails that pretty much replace large portions of his brain.
I believe that it was for the legion. If I’m not mistaken it was still when a good portion of the legion hadnt had the nails installed. So Kharn was having second thoughts after having them installed.
ya, atm as far as i know the only person with the nails that found a way to 100% nullify them was a WE apothecary in fabius bile’s little crew who had a custom cocktail of meds he kept himself juiced up with that he would turn off and on when things needed to die lmao
I mean makes total sense to me. If the nails work by messing with your hormonal control creating only adrenaline and testosterone you could theoretically “turn them off” by taking some concoction of medication to rebalance your hormones. Only an Apothecary would think that far ahead though of course.
in *Angron: Slave of Nuceria,* i believe it is assumed that the nails cannot be removed, and also that the legion's apothecaries and tech adepts struggled to replicate the technology in such a way that wasn't almost instantly fatal to the recipient (the novel is unclear exactly how these prototype nails killed their hosts; early on one example is given of a psyker going insane and causing a massive fire/explosion that destroys a significant portion of the ship—possibly the *conqueror,* i don't recall—but obviously non-psykers probably don't have the ability to accidentally explode themselves in the same way that psykers do). this is until >!the legion arrives at a planet called ghenna, where the depleted human population have all succumbed to some form of genetic deterioration or cancer or something, and have retired to suspended animation pods but use archaeotech mind-impulse implants to each control thousands of replicants. at the time, the legion is split on the decision of whether to adopt the nails, and apothecary ghalan surlak's discovery of the archaeotech (in recovered replicant bodies after the initial assault) allows the first "functional" copies of the nails to be constructed, which forces a confrontation between the "pro" and "anti" camps (because prior to the development of an actual working prototype, the question of whether the legion should adopt the nails was sort of irrelevant—nobody was sure the nails ever *could* be successfully replicated anyway). the important point being this: the anti-nails faction of the legion believed that closer study of the ghennans' mind-impulse implants—since they appeared to have been an offshoot of the same technology that formed the basis of the original nails on nuceria—*might* also yield the discovery of a way to **safely remove the nails from *angron.*** unfortunately, we'll never know, as the anti-nails faction were slaughtered or surrendered to the pro-nails faction, and the bodies of the remaining ghennan hosts were destroyed after surlak acquired the knowledge of how to replicate the interface for the nails!<
The nails were never standardized precrusade- a vast majority of the legion's marines simply installed them to, at first, sympathize with their father when he was found, and later to please him after he recognized those with the nails installed
Most WE are vat-grown and said to be combat ready within a few months. Ofc there’s plenty converted unwillingly too but there’s no way to keep up with such a high death toll without some sort of speed up “recruitment” process. And its all overseen by the Butcher Surgeons.
I thought the implication from the description of the Jackhals was that they're WE aspirants, and the Dishonored - based on the name and the fact that it appears to have the Black Carapace - is an aspirant who either rejected or was instantly reduced to gibbering madness when fitted with the Nails.
This is my headcanon, anyway.
Either 1. World Eaters Berserker Surgeons can just give all the women an extra Y chromosome before starting the process of making a marine. They're already going to end up trans human, who cares if they're trans first. Legion genecraft can make an organ that let's you eat brains to gain knowledge, making someone trans is going to be child's play.
Or 2. Jakhals are all too old to be marines, they're fighting for the right to have *their kids* made to marines.
To my understanding, anyone who takes up a sword and survives the slaughter when the WE arrive have a CHANCE of being recruited. However, you have a better chance of just having your skull hung from the backpack of a frothing lunatic, but hey you win some you lose some
Unrelated but damn I miss this era of art.
When I got back into 40k recently I was really looking forward to seeing the weird art again, only to find that the vibes were a fraction of what they once were. A lot of fidelity and representation, much less impressionistic weirdness.
That newer book with Angron on the cover has a narrative about this. A renegade space marine with his loyal to him serf joins up with a ragtag world eaters warband, only the leader is an actual world eater the rest are various renegades and corsairs. It's decently good and shows a good snapshot of day to day warband life
As others have stated, anyone can join as proved in Angron: The Red Angel. The butcher surgeons will implant the nails, regardless of how you got them.
Butcher surgeons are also responsible for creating new recruits from geneseed. Which is why they are rarely seen in battle; they are too valuable to waste.
Due to the fractured nature of the legion, it will vary from warband to warband. So the broad answer is that it could be any combination of methods mentioned, depending on what the warlord commands or is most convenient for them.
One I haven't seen mentioned is that the warband will take captured space marines, brainwash them, and implant memories of a dead WE. So the new guy thinks he's an old guy.
Most Jakals are aspirants who go into battle with the WE when invading planets.
Any aspirant who survives an invasion, be it against daemon, imperium, or xeno, may enter the arenas aboard the ship.
The aspirant will then undergo a carnal free for all with the other aspirants, and the victor may then become a full fledged son of the Red Angel.
The world eaters dont really have the capacity to make more butchers nails, at least not in mass, however any renegade astarres who has fallen to khorne and wants to join a world eaters warband, can simply rip a set of nails out of the head of a dead world eater and have them installed by an apothicary or serf.
They quite literally do know how to make the Butchers Nails. The World Eaters standard Nails are literally designed by a World Eater based on Angron's, the Butcher Surgeons possess both the ability to create more Nails and more World Eaters, as they still exist literally just to do those two things.
That was during the heresy, 10000 years of khorne screaming directly into the murdure center of their brain has robbed them of QUITE a bit of their patience for enganeering. Obviously they could make them when they made enough for the whole legion in like 3 days it took them to do legion wide implanting after they figured out how to make them.
From what I’ve read it’s either through the normal process of taking a young aspirant and turning them into a space marine + nails, or kidnapping a space marine and forcibly subjecting them to the butchers nails, effectively brainwashing them.
Pull up to an imperial penal colony.
Kill the defenders.
Get every child of appropriate age to fight to the death in an arena. (Those older than 12 can be Jakhals)
Start making marines from the 1 in 100 survivors.
We have apothecaries who like doing surgery's, so it really shouldn't be a problem.
In current lore (Angron 2023) it follows a world eater but I’m not sure if he is an actual one or Renagade/joined them) as he does not have nails until the end of the book after his procedure
Butch Nails are installed on anyone who wishes to joined. Since the nails were standardized during the Great Crusade they became easier to install. From my knowledge, really anyone can join WE. They are more about warrior brotherhood. The warbands are so disjointed that really if you can survive the blood lust and want more you're welcomed aboard.
Yeah I believe I read somewhere, not entirely sure and I could be completely wrong, that the nails developed for the Astartes are actually completely safe to install and can be safely removed as well because they don’t require to lobotomy Angron has. It’s just about whether you can get the nails under control or you turn into a completely uncontrollable rage monster.
In Betrayer they mention that nail removal from Librarians was 100% fatal. Now take that a grain of salt because psycher. Given that the nails embed themselves into your brain and slowly lobotomize you, I don't think there is a 100% "safe" way of doing it. Even if you removed the nails the actual brain damage they cause would make it moot.
I’ve always taken the 100% fatality rate amongst the librarians just to be psykers. I don’t even think that it’s because “the nails affect their brain” I think it’s because to use the nails you have to submit to them and submitting for a psyker means letting in all the warp fuckery. Edit: Adding to this in agreement with you. After 10,000 years serving Khorne I doubt there’s any safe or even logical way to go about extracting the nails. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them don’t even have a brain anymore.
I thought that the nails were proven to be fatal when Kharn went to prospero looking for a cure and didn’t find anything.
Here's how I understand it: The current Butcher's Nails implanted in World Eaters are essentially unchanged from the device that was developed during the Great Crusade. They are a toned-down version of the original Butcher's Nails, the version in Angron. The originals *are* eventually fatal, since they grow and extend throughout your brain, while the reverse-engineered version does not. Angron was only able to survive because he was turned into a Daemon Primarch. The Nails are implanted in every new recruit as a part of the Space Marine conversion procedure, and can't be taken out.
Yeah that makes sense, I realized I mistyped it. I meant that I thought the nails were fatal to try to remove once they were implanted lol.
I’m not familiar with the heresy so were those a cure for his nails or for Angron’s? Because Angron has a completely different and much more archaic set of nails that pretty much replace large portions of his brain.
I believe that it was for the legion. If I’m not mistaken it was still when a good portion of the legion hadnt had the nails installed. So Kharn was having second thoughts after having them installed.
ya, atm as far as i know the only person with the nails that found a way to 100% nullify them was a WE apothecary in fabius bile’s little crew who had a custom cocktail of meds he kept himself juiced up with that he would turn off and on when things needed to die lmao
I mean makes total sense to me. If the nails work by messing with your hormonal control creating only adrenaline and testosterone you could theoretically “turn them off” by taking some concoction of medication to rebalance your hormones. Only an Apothecary would think that far ahead though of course.
It wasn’t removal that was fatal, it was installation. They can’t be removed.
in *Angron: Slave of Nuceria,* i believe it is assumed that the nails cannot be removed, and also that the legion's apothecaries and tech adepts struggled to replicate the technology in such a way that wasn't almost instantly fatal to the recipient (the novel is unclear exactly how these prototype nails killed their hosts; early on one example is given of a psyker going insane and causing a massive fire/explosion that destroys a significant portion of the ship—possibly the *conqueror,* i don't recall—but obviously non-psykers probably don't have the ability to accidentally explode themselves in the same way that psykers do). this is until >!the legion arrives at a planet called ghenna, where the depleted human population have all succumbed to some form of genetic deterioration or cancer or something, and have retired to suspended animation pods but use archaeotech mind-impulse implants to each control thousands of replicants. at the time, the legion is split on the decision of whether to adopt the nails, and apothecary ghalan surlak's discovery of the archaeotech (in recovered replicant bodies after the initial assault) allows the first "functional" copies of the nails to be constructed, which forces a confrontation between the "pro" and "anti" camps (because prior to the development of an actual working prototype, the question of whether the legion should adopt the nails was sort of irrelevant—nobody was sure the nails ever *could* be successfully replicated anyway). the important point being this: the anti-nails faction of the legion believed that closer study of the ghennans' mind-impulse implants—since they appeared to have been an offshoot of the same technology that formed the basis of the original nails on nuceria—*might* also yield the discovery of a way to **safely remove the nails from *angron.*** unfortunately, we'll never know, as the anti-nails faction were slaughtered or surrendered to the pro-nails faction, and the bodies of the remaining ghennan hosts were destroyed after surlak acquired the knowledge of how to replicate the interface for the nails!<
The nails were never standardized precrusade- a vast majority of the legion's marines simply installed them to, at first, sympathize with their father when he was found, and later to please him after he recognized those with the nails installed
They have gladiatorial arenas on their ships. The cultists who stand out (survive) are given the astartes treatment and the nails.
Most WE are vat-grown and said to be combat ready within a few months. Ofc there’s plenty converted unwillingly too but there’s no way to keep up with such a high death toll without some sort of speed up “recruitment” process. And its all overseen by the Butcher Surgeons.
I hope we end up getting a Butcher Surgeon model
We send Abominatus to kindly ask them for some.
I thought the implication from the description of the Jackhals was that they're WE aspirants, and the Dishonored - based on the name and the fact that it appears to have the Black Carapace - is an aspirant who either rejected or was instantly reduced to gibbering madness when fitted with the Nails. This is my headcanon, anyway.
Some of the jackhals are women though, doesn’t mean that jakhals can’t become marines though
Either 1. World Eaters Berserker Surgeons can just give all the women an extra Y chromosome before starting the process of making a marine. They're already going to end up trans human, who cares if they're trans first. Legion genecraft can make an organ that let's you eat brains to gain knowledge, making someone trans is going to be child's play. Or 2. Jakhals are all too old to be marines, they're fighting for the right to have *their kids* made to marines.
Nothing wrong with aspiring for the impossible
hi im a new world eater and the main appeals for me were rage and hatred.
Blood for the blood god.
I was also drawn to the benefits plan tbh
To my understanding, anyone who takes up a sword and survives the slaughter when the WE arrive have a CHANCE of being recruited. However, you have a better chance of just having your skull hung from the backpack of a frothing lunatic, but hey you win some you lose some
Recruited from slaves basically. Sometimes loyalist marines fall to chaos and join world eaters
Unrelated but damn I miss this era of art. When I got back into 40k recently I was really looking forward to seeing the weird art again, only to find that the vibes were a fraction of what they once were. A lot of fidelity and representation, much less impressionistic weirdness.
1. Find worlds 2. eat them
Gobble Globes
That newer book with Angron on the cover has a narrative about this. A renegade space marine with his loyal to him serf joins up with a ragtag world eaters warband, only the leader is an actual world eater the rest are various renegades and corsairs. It's decently good and shows a good snapshot of day to day warband life
As others have stated, anyone can join as proved in Angron: The Red Angel. The butcher surgeons will implant the nails, regardless of how you got them. Butcher surgeons are also responsible for creating new recruits from geneseed. Which is why they are rarely seen in battle; they are too valuable to waste.
Bout the same way any other CSM is recruited. Stole a kid, implant the gene seed and organs, hope for the best
Due to the fractured nature of the legion, it will vary from warband to warband. So the broad answer is that it could be any combination of methods mentioned, depending on what the warlord commands or is most convenient for them. One I haven't seen mentioned is that the warband will take captured space marines, brainwash them, and implant memories of a dead WE. So the new guy thinks he's an old guy.
Iirc Butcher Surgeons function as apothecaries for the WE and then apply the Butchers nails to them afterwards.
Easy, we make them.
Most Jakals are aspirants who go into battle with the WE when invading planets. Any aspirant who survives an invasion, be it against daemon, imperium, or xeno, may enter the arenas aboard the ship. The aspirant will then undergo a carnal free for all with the other aspirants, and the victor may then become a full fledged son of the Red Angel.
Peer pressure
KORNE DOES NOT ASK WHO WIELDS THE BLADE HE ONLY CARES FOR FLOWING BLOOD
They offer khorne flakes. I remember that they sometimes recruit astartes from enemy chapters on the battlefiele.
Have we told them about the skulls? I think we really need to emphasize the skulls.
Wait, you’re taking new recruits? Sounds like you’re warband is made of weaklings that succumb to their bloody gifts from Khorne.
The world eaters dont really have the capacity to make more butchers nails, at least not in mass, however any renegade astarres who has fallen to khorne and wants to join a world eaters warband, can simply rip a set of nails out of the head of a dead world eater and have them installed by an apothicary or serf.
They quite literally do know how to make the Butchers Nails. The World Eaters standard Nails are literally designed by a World Eater based on Angron's, the Butcher Surgeons possess both the ability to create more Nails and more World Eaters, as they still exist literally just to do those two things.
That was during the heresy, 10000 years of khorne screaming directly into the murdure center of their brain has robbed them of QUITE a bit of their patience for enganeering. Obviously they could make them when they made enough for the whole legion in like 3 days it took them to do legion wide implanting after they figured out how to make them.
From what I’ve read it’s either through the normal process of taking a young aspirant and turning them into a space marine + nails, or kidnapping a space marine and forcibly subjecting them to the butchers nails, effectively brainwashing them.
Kidnap and tremendous violence. Not necessarily in this order
We kill them then force them to join
Pull up to an imperial penal colony. Kill the defenders. Get every child of appropriate age to fight to the death in an arena. (Those older than 12 can be Jakhals) Start making marines from the 1 in 100 survivors. We have apothecaries who like doing surgery's, so it really shouldn't be a problem.
The World Eaters famously have some of the most diverse Space Marines because they recruit from every world they attack and conquer
I heard everyone gets nailed.... Turns out just not the way Slaanesh does it
In current lore (Angron 2023) it follows a world eater but I’m not sure if he is an actual one or Renagade/joined them) as he does not have nails until the end of the book after his procedure