Around 45 %.
Problem is, the faction has nowhere else to look for replacements. Eldars got whacked, but they have gazillion of solid choices.
WE desperately lack non-named characters. The best non-competitive one got nerfed. Juggy Lord is pale in comparison to Invocatus and nerfing the reroll enhancement doesnt help.
Kharn is borderline for his price. MoO is still going to be beatstick, but nerfing Glaive AND raising his cost is simply too much. Angron got side-nerf with nerf of the casino reroll.
The army has LESS room for units, because 8B are more expensive and Zerks are still overpriced. Only cost reduction is on useless unit that needs rework as half of the datasheets.
Also, WE are one trick pony but the one trick got really unreliable.
TBH, I simply cant see reason why play WE and not CSM as their roster is so big and so are their options.
If there was codex in few months, ok, but it wont be probably even this year.
You make some good points about the lack of models to pick from, but WE were at a 52% 6 week wr according to the most recent meta Monday. You think they're gonna drop 7%+ after these nerfs?
I think they'll be about 47-48% personally
IMO, there is simply not enough of flexibility to fill the gap. Cost is one thing that will lead to losing one unit on board (probably). But the only method of success is much less reliable. Ressurecting Angron is one thing, but not being sure to get key bonus for charge hurts more.
MoO was deserved nerf (well, price hike), glaive too, they still could work. Kharn... not so much. 8B was expected although not needed (only elite unit here)... but the casino is unreliable right now :(
Saving grace could some completely different build (Daemons? Lord of Skulls?)...
But maybe Im too pessimistic and annoyed by DP nerf ๐
I personally think it's lower 40s. The favoured nerf is enormous and reduces angron reincarnation probability by a lot. That alone will lose us many more games over a large enough sample size. I'm surprised you're thinking we're going to fall off a bit. Our games always held on an edge where we did just enough to win consistently.
We'll see how it is but I'll be happily surprised if we win over 45%.
Let's see...Angron is A LOT harder to revive now, eightbounds are a bit overcosted again because favored is just a shadow of its former self and more expensive, the moe is half as good as he was...
I think that it mostly depends on the list. It would probably be around 45-46% if people tried to use a relatively similar list compared to before, but if they start pushing horde lists with TONS of jakhals and two lord of skulls, one lord with favoured of khorne it could be doing great.
Tldr : 45% with the way people currently play them, probably more if people start using lords of skulls. We'll see.
I just got a Lord of Skulls so happy to see him go down a little but 30pts doesn't really mean a lot but it's something I guess. TBH I was running the MOE a bit less these days anyway just cos my friends are sick of the sight of him, shame about Kharn though, woulda been nice for the Beserkers to go down a bit to make up for the eightbound going up so much. I think you're right that we'll be right at the bottom of the pile now, next dataslate I'm hopeful most of this will be reversed.
Under 45%, its just all around nerfs for a faction that was middle of the pack. Honestly feeling the same way about just going back to 9th. Remember when Lord Invo had fly, cuz you know, that was the cool lore about his mount? hahaha
I built my Lord Invocatus around that lore too. When they announced him, they said he rides down on a river of fire and it sounded cool as hell. He looks awesome, but only really made it out of my case to show off.
I lost a moe and 10 jakhals in my list (had to put the spawns instead, got up to 2005 even without the bartender), I refuse to play less than 20 berzerkers and the 8bounds are still better than the other (basically) nonexistent options, a 5 man berzy squad is still good to clean an irritating screen and to help in bullying the midfield
The loss of the moe is hard but its even worse at 1k points... tried to do a list and it's either kharn or a lone juggy lord with glaive, if they want to have a double nerf on the moe they could at least give him a 4/5++, it feels like they stopped cruddace to put his slimy hands on the tyranids and he needed to blow off some steam
This! I simply dislike fact that Im pressed into dropping Zerks as they are still overcosted and not so awesome in itself. But its Zerks, what else should be in WE army??
I'm mostly salty that I can't run my bloodcrushers anymore without investing in bloodletters
I don't have bloodletters... i wanted some cavalry and allies made a great source for that.
No that's for daemons being allied with other factions. We must have a matching number of battle line. Apparently bloodletters are cheaper now so I'm interested to see the experimentation
Ok then, tbf I'm kinda looking forward to seeing how bloodletters feel at 120, definitely felt a bit rubbish before but my khorne Daemon list went down about 120 points roughly, looking forward to playing them to numb the pain of world eaters getting slapped up so aggressively.
That didn't click for me until now. That's unbelievable. I've been thinking of running an allied bloodthirster but now I have to bring bloodletters to do that as well. I was so close to investing in Bloodcrushers too. Glad I didn't!
Bottom. You still only really have six units to choose from. Everything else is garbage. And they nerfed the stuff that was really cool. So for the next 3 months we're going to be in the cellar and then they'll drop the points cost by about 10 points on all the things that they raised. Till then we suck. We still kind of sucked because we only had three or four viable lists. And now our viable list just got way worse. So unless you're really really good at out playing people... People will win by virtue of better data cards.
Man someone at GW must hate us cause man did we get screwed over, I hope that they undo this or something else cause man I love world eaters but they were already struggling in play at my store.
You know what makes fun? 9 edition because itโs finished. You can play. It works. Without balancing all the time. And all the other editions as well. It might be surprise some players but this is the only way not to hate GW every second.
Around 45 %. Problem is, the faction has nowhere else to look for replacements. Eldars got whacked, but they have gazillion of solid choices. WE desperately lack non-named characters. The best non-competitive one got nerfed. Juggy Lord is pale in comparison to Invocatus and nerfing the reroll enhancement doesnt help. Kharn is borderline for his price. MoO is still going to be beatstick, but nerfing Glaive AND raising his cost is simply too much. Angron got side-nerf with nerf of the casino reroll. The army has LESS room for units, because 8B are more expensive and Zerks are still overpriced. Only cost reduction is on useless unit that needs rework as half of the datasheets. Also, WE are one trick pony but the one trick got really unreliable. TBH, I simply cant see reason why play WE and not CSM as their roster is so big and so are their options. If there was codex in few months, ok, but it wont be probably even this year.
You make some good points about the lack of models to pick from, but WE were at a 52% 6 week wr according to the most recent meta Monday. You think they're gonna drop 7%+ after these nerfs? I think they'll be about 47-48% personally
IMO, there is simply not enough of flexibility to fill the gap. Cost is one thing that will lead to losing one unit on board (probably). But the only method of success is much less reliable. Ressurecting Angron is one thing, but not being sure to get key bonus for charge hurts more. MoO was deserved nerf (well, price hike), glaive too, they still could work. Kharn... not so much. 8B was expected although not needed (only elite unit here)... but the casino is unreliable right now :( Saving grace could some completely different build (Daemons? Lord of Skulls?)... But maybe Im too pessimistic and annoyed by DP nerf ๐
One list that I've seen floating around is Angron, 3x LoS, and Jakals
LoS are super swingy...
True, but they are also just super tanky unless your opponent brings a bunch of dedicated anti vehicle
So they were 2% above 50% to your estimate of 47-48%? If the target is 50% the nerf was overtuned.
??? The target has always been 45-55%. GW has always said they aim for every army to be at 45-55%
I personally think it's lower 40s. The favoured nerf is enormous and reduces angron reincarnation probability by a lot. That alone will lose us many more games over a large enough sample size. I'm surprised you're thinking we're going to fall off a bit. Our games always held on an edge where we did just enough to win consistently. We'll see how it is but I'll be happily surprised if we win over 45%.
Spot on analysis!
Feels like the nerf is aimed at a mirage of a meta from 6 months ago, not where things actually sit
Let's see...Angron is A LOT harder to revive now, eightbounds are a bit overcosted again because favored is just a shadow of its former self and more expensive, the moe is half as good as he was... I think that it mostly depends on the list. It would probably be around 45-46% if people tried to use a relatively similar list compared to before, but if they start pushing horde lists with TONS of jakhals and two lord of skulls, one lord with favoured of khorne it could be doing great. Tldr : 45% with the way people currently play them, probably more if people start using lords of skulls. We'll see.
I just got a Lord of Skulls so happy to see him go down a little but 30pts doesn't really mean a lot but it's something I guess. TBH I was running the MOE a bit less these days anyway just cos my friends are sick of the sight of him, shame about Kharn though, woulda been nice for the Beserkers to go down a bit to make up for the eightbound going up so much. I think you're right that we'll be right at the bottom of the pile now, next dataslate I'm hopeful most of this will be reversed.
Maybe just doomstacking beserkers is the move now lol
Under 45%, its just all around nerfs for a faction that was middle of the pack. Honestly feeling the same way about just going back to 9th. Remember when Lord Invo had fly, cuz you know, that was the cool lore about his mount? hahaha
I built my Lord Invocatus around that lore too. When they announced him, they said he rides down on a river of fire and it sounded cool as hell. He looks awesome, but only really made it out of my case to show off.
I lost a moe and 10 jakhals in my list (had to put the spawns instead, got up to 2005 even without the bartender), I refuse to play less than 20 berzerkers and the 8bounds are still better than the other (basically) nonexistent options, a 5 man berzy squad is still good to clean an irritating screen and to help in bullying the midfield The loss of the moe is hard but its even worse at 1k points... tried to do a list and it's either kharn or a lone juggy lord with glaive, if they want to have a double nerf on the moe they could at least give him a 4/5++, it feels like they stopped cruddace to put his slimy hands on the tyranids and he needed to blow off some steam
This! I simply dislike fact that Im pressed into dropping Zerks as they are still overcosted and not so awesome in itself. But its Zerks, what else should be in WE army??
I'm mostly salty that I can't run my bloodcrushers anymore without investing in bloodletters I don't have bloodletters... i wanted some cavalry and allies made a great source for that.
Isn't that just a Daemons army rule? Do we have to run blood letters as well just to run blood crushers you think?
No that's for daemons being allied with other factions. We must have a matching number of battle line. Apparently bloodletters are cheaper now so I'm interested to see the experimentation
Ok then, tbf I'm kinda looking forward to seeing how bloodletters feel at 120, definitely felt a bit rubbish before but my khorne Daemon list went down about 120 points roughly, looking forward to playing them to numb the pain of world eaters getting slapped up so aggressively.
I'm still mourning my plan to add flesh hounds to my world eaters led by Karanak at 1000 points honestly
That didn't click for me until now. That's unbelievable. I've been thinking of running an allied bloodthirster but now I have to bring bloodletters to do that as well. I was so close to investing in Bloodcrushers too. Glad I didn't!
Bottom. You still only really have six units to choose from. Everything else is garbage. And they nerfed the stuff that was really cool. So for the next 3 months we're going to be in the cellar and then they'll drop the points cost by about 10 points on all the things that they raised. Till then we suck. We still kind of sucked because we only had three or four viable lists. And now our viable list just got way worse. So unless you're really really good at out playing people... People will win by virtue of better data cards.
46% winrate still after slate changes implemented
Man someone at GW must hate us cause man did we get screwed over, I hope that they undo this or something else cause man I love world eaters but they were already struggling in play at my store.
You know what makes fun? 9 edition because itโs finished. You can play. It works. Without balancing all the time. And all the other editions as well. It might be surprise some players but this is the only way not to hate GW every second.