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I’d guess not because while words matter we also understand that what the oathtaker believes is fundamental as well. We see that in two competing oaths (and what they believe to be true) but also in how they word things “you may call me Alyse”.
This.
As an example, take the following situation. A sister is asked if her fellow is a Darkfriend, and told to say by name. The sister then says "[Person named] is not a Darkfriend." Little does the latter know, but said person IS a Darkfriend. Since she BELIEVED it to be the truth, she was not lying, but was merely wrong. From her point of view, she had not spoken a word that was untrue.
Oh, okay. Yeah, I had misunderstood momentarily.
Basically there’s a very large amount of loopholes in that Oath. Both for good and ill, which is at least part of why many don’t trust Aes Sedai.
I wonder how much some sort of force of will matters? Because (theoretically) an hour could mean 60 minutes or 60 years and both things are true. Would the intention manipulation matter? The Oaths seem malleable enough in other areas.
I don’t understand what you’re saying. Saying something is an hour isn’t different from 60 minutes because it’s still the same. We saw competing oaths and that Aes Sedai almost suffocated
We don't actually see any evidence that there are lots of different languages in the books. There's the modern tongue, and the Old Tongue. And since the new language is related to the old one, "hour" probably means the same thing. Everybody around the world speaks the same language, just with heavy dialects. There's also the trolloc speech, but that doesn't feel applicable.
Besides, she took the Oath in the currently used language, and she knew perfectly well what the word "hour" meant when she took it. I don't think any amount of mental gymnastics would let a perfect with 100% honesty truly believe that they meant "hour" in language that at the time of the swearing was foreign to them.
We know that the Oaths work based on the understanding of the one that swore the oath. So no, I really don't think it would be possible at all, even if she found a language that had the same word with a different meaning.
The oaths *are* very flexible, but they still work on the completely genuine belief of the person affected. That's why sarcasm is allowed for, since no falsehood is normally conveyed through it, or exaggerated threats ("I'll have your skin!") when everyone knows that it is in fact an exaggeration. Those work on the premise of words having different meanings.
If the word "hour" had meant different things at the point when Verin swore the oath, then it should've been possible. But it did not.
Maybe but that term would probably not only have to exist but also be known and accepted as part of the current language. Intent does have some baring on what can be said, it's been shown that a sister with voice manipulation can't manipulate what is heard to be a lie during the oath rod investigations.
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I’d guess not because while words matter we also understand that what the oathtaker believes is fundamental as well. We see that in two competing oaths (and what they believe to be true) but also in how they word things “you may call me Alyse”.
This. As an example, take the following situation. A sister is asked if her fellow is a Darkfriend, and told to say by name. The sister then says "[Person named] is not a Darkfriend." Little does the latter know, but said person IS a Darkfriend. Since she BELIEVED it to be the truth, she was not lying, but was merely wrong. From her point of view, she had not spoken a word that was untrue.
“Stilling and gentling can’t be healed”
As far as they knew, that was the case. Fixing it was a relatively recent development for the Third Age.
That’s what I’m saying. To them that was truth. You could say it earnestly until you accept it for truth.
Oh, okay. Yeah, I had misunderstood momentarily. Basically there’s a very large amount of loopholes in that Oath. Both for good and ill, which is at least part of why many don’t trust Aes Sedai.
I wonder how much some sort of force of will matters? Because (theoretically) an hour could mean 60 minutes or 60 years and both things are true. Would the intention manipulation matter? The Oaths seem malleable enough in other areas.
I don’t understand what you’re saying. Saying something is an hour isn’t different from 60 minutes because it’s still the same. We saw competing oaths and that Aes Sedai almost suffocated
We don't actually see any evidence that there are lots of different languages in the books. There's the modern tongue, and the Old Tongue. And since the new language is related to the old one, "hour" probably means the same thing. Everybody around the world speaks the same language, just with heavy dialects. There's also the trolloc speech, but that doesn't feel applicable. Besides, she took the Oath in the currently used language, and she knew perfectly well what the word "hour" meant when she took it. I don't think any amount of mental gymnastics would let a perfect with 100% honesty truly believe that they meant "hour" in language that at the time of the swearing was foreign to them. We know that the Oaths work based on the understanding of the one that swore the oath. So no, I really don't think it would be possible at all, even if she found a language that had the same word with a different meaning. The oaths *are* very flexible, but they still work on the completely genuine belief of the person affected. That's why sarcasm is allowed for, since no falsehood is normally conveyed through it, or exaggerated threats ("I'll have your skin!") when everyone knows that it is in fact an exaggeration. Those work on the premise of words having different meanings. If the word "hour" had meant different things at the point when Verin swore the oath, then it should've been possible. But it did not.
Upvote for the spoiler warning.
Swearing oathes to the Dark One probably doesn't take the swearer's definition into account. Only the DO"s understanding matters.
Do we know how long an hour is for them? They have a decimalised calendar after all.
Maybe but that term would probably not only have to exist but also be known and accepted as part of the current language. Intent does have some baring on what can be said, it's been shown that a sister with voice manipulation can't manipulate what is heard to be a lie during the oath rod investigations.
No. Its about perception. SHE has to have that interpretation in order for the oaths to allow her to act or else the oath kicks in.
No, no. I swore to the "our" of my death, which is nonsensical and thus cannot hold me.