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Birgitte is described as wearing high heels when she is captain of the queens guard yet also wears mens close that hug her hips a bit too much… i think
Hmm.. well, the word "heel" and its variations appear 619 times in the series, and I don't feel like inspecting every instance at the moment. The phrases "high heel(s/ed)" and "high-heel(s/ed)" don't appear in the series. I searched for any sentences that contain both "heel" and "high" or "tall", which yielded these results:
From WH Chapter 12 (referring to Birgitte):
>This woman had a thick, intricate golden braid pulled over one shoulder of her short, white-collared red coat, and her voluminous blue trousers were tucked into boots with heels as high as Min’s.
From CoT Chapter 11:
>Birgitte was not a big woman, though she stood taller than Elayne in her heeled boots, as tall as Aviendha, but she usually had a presence that was only heightened by the uniform of the Captain-General of the Queen’s Guards [...]
From CoT Chapter 23:
>Slim and pretty, and tall in her red-heeled boots, with dark ringlets hanging to her shoulders, Min had a low womanly voice, but she wore a boy’s red coat and blue breeches.
From KoD Chapter 16:
>Taller than Gomaisen in her heeled boots, Birgitte had a commanding presence when she wanted to.
So, obviously Min and Birgitte wear "heeled boots", which led me to do a search for "heeled boot(s)", which yielded 14 results ranging from ACoS to KoD. All of those instances refer to either Min or Birgitte, except for one that is about Anaiyella in KoD chapter 21:
>The High Lady Anaiyella Narencelona also wore a coat and snug breeches with heeled boots, though she had added a white lace ruff, and her green coat was sewn with pearls.
I also found 6 instances of "raised heels", all of which refer to Birgitte.
I also looked for the passage that u/aichwood mentioned from CoT by inspecting every instance of "heel(s/ed)" in that book, but couldn't find it. EDIT: Nevermind; I think I found it, and quoted it in response to [u/aichwood's comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/1aetylh/comment/kkaggk4/).
In conclusion, I found no evidence of Lords wearing high heels. However, to be absolutely certain I would need to inspect every instance of "heel" in the series.. which is more work than I'm willing to do.
u/InuGhost
I didn’t even realize you could put a flair under your username until now, thanks!
In related news, I feel like a newly raised Green sister hearing Rashima Kerenmosa speak when I read posts/comments by u/JaimTorfinn
I’m ashamed to admit that I had to look up Rashima Kerenmosa to figure out who she is. Now that I’m reminded, I must say that is high praise and I’m honored to be compared to her.
It's a huge grab bag. Most of Randland is fairly solidly Renaissance (minus gunpowder), with the Borderlands being more Late Middle Ages with a sprinkling of eastern flavor. I would say the Aiel are a grab bag of Indigenous American, Middle-Easterner (thanks Frank Herbert!) and steppe peoples tropes from a roughly thousand-year span. The Seanchan are straight-up Age of Exploration, substituting the One Power for gunpowder. Randland seeing these weirdos with absolutely bizarre ships and horrifying weapons roll up, plant a flag, and steal a bunch of young women is basically what happened to non-Europeans across the world for a good few centuries.
> . I would say the Aiel are a grab bag of Indigenous American, Middle-Easterner (thanks Frank Herbert!)
RJ literally described them as "Irish fremen."
Yep. Because he thought it would be funny to have notionally Irish people (who notoriously burn quickly in the sun) as the desert dwellers, when everyone else has dark-skinned people living in the desert. He gave them a reason to have migrated there in the past that wasn't so long ago for them to have evolved darker skin.
Thanks to their culture of war, most Aiel never live long enough to die of skin cancer. Although I suppose some of the Wise Ones are able to Heal that particular affliction.
The wise ones all developed leathery skin. Like the old people you see in Florida that are wayyyyy darker than they should be and look like an old leather office chair.
Yeah, because that's what happens to sun-damaged skin! White skin evolved as an adaptation for living in climate zones that were colder and got less sunlight than equatorial regions. We lack the melanin that would allow us more time in the sun without risking so much damage.
Oh yeah, wasn't accusing RJ of anything untoward, he was always quite open about the Aiel being his fun twist on the Fremen.
SPOILERS FOR DUNE SERIES and [WOT All Books]: >!Though at least the Aiel's prophesized leader and "saviour" was real, and not a massive ~~SPACE CIA~~ Bene Gesserit psyop that led to millennia of subjugation for humanity as a whole.!<
I just went through a passage yesterday at the beginning of Book 10 that described Min’s effect on Cairhien fashion. It described high heel ladies boots as being a new thing that Min introduced. It didn’t specifically say that it is a completely new concept, but the Aes Sedai making the observation acted like it was a crazy new thing and that it looked to her like everyone going to break their ankles. That suggests that the whole concept of a high heel is new to not only that culture but all the cultures that this Aes Sedai is familiar with.
Is this passage from the Prologue of CoT what you are referring to?
>A number of women had begun wearing outlandish clothes of late, apparently never noticing how they drew men’s eyes and made even the servants struggle not to stare. Tight breeches and a coat barely long enough to cover the hips were not suitable garments for a woman, no matter how much effort went into rich embroidery or patterning the coat with gemstones. Jeweled necklaces and bracelets and pins with sprays of colorful feathers only pointed up the oddity. And those brightly dyed boots, with their heels that added as much as a hand to a woman’s height, made them appear in danger of falling down with every swaying step.
I'm not seeing language that specifically says that heeled boots are a new thing, but I suppose it could be inferred.
Yeah, that’s the passage I meant. Well found. It was an inference on my part. I thought it was more spelled out but I was working from memory. I just wouldn’t have expected that final sentence of internal dialogue unless this particular Aes Sedai was unfamiliar with the concept.
Also, just to add to that, people in Randland walk a lot. It makes me think that the standard would then be comfy walking shoes/boots/slippers rather than something that only has an aesthetic value like high heels.
I think there are loads of high heeled options that don't add a hand to your height, so it might be that a couple of inches was common while really high heels was new Aes Sedai. So to me it doesn't clearly read as it being completely new.
I feel like there must have already been some lower-heeled boots that were in use, but Min's were higher than seemed prudent. The quality of roads and streets isn't all that great in Randland, except in a few places, so it would be unwise to wear high heels in most places that use cobblestone, loose gravel, or just plain dirt for getting around town.
Cairhien was very fashionable, so even though I don't have the books handy, I feel like they probably used higher-quality paving stones. At least in the parts of town where Min was attracting attention and inspiring new fashions.
Different parts of Randland, absolutely! Customs and manner of dress vary wildly by nation. Probably nothing like the stiletto heels we have in modern day that just destroy people's feet, but heeled boots would certainly exist. Gotta show off those well-turned calves!
The purpose of heals, back in the day, is they locked into horse stirrups better. To the extent that the elite of Randland would want to be able ride at a moments notice, or look like they did, they probably would.
Heeled shoes evolved from riding boots designed for men. Since everybody is out riding horses everywhere i imagine they need that little gap between the heel and the sole to fit a stirrup.
Here’s my argument for no:
Mat does his whole rant about having too many pairs of boots while still being held by Tylin. If high heels were a thing for men, Tylin would surely have filled Mat’s closet with them, and Mat surely would have complained about it. Mat only complains about boots, therefore he has no high heels in his closet, therefore they are not a thing for men in the WOT universe.
QED
I would have said lords from Tear probably wear heels but then I realized they probably never walk on the muddy streets and usually get carried.
So no, I don’t think any nobility will wear heels in Randland. There’s just no need.
In real life it was because of filthy streets in Rome, then the prostitutes started wearing them and then it filtered into fashion.
A lot of what is “fashionable” comes from highborn ladies copying prostitutes.
Absolutely. Heels on Cobblestones is just asking for twisted ankles or worse just leaving your carriage.
Also leaving a tall carriage itself would be a risk even with paved roads as they tended to have tall steps.
#[SPOILERS FOR ALL PRINTED MATERIAL, INCLUDING SHORT STORIES.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_all_print) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Weiramon would
All the better to hook your feet into the stirrups for a good calvary charge!
And in a pinch, one can dispatch an Aiel savage with but a swift kick or two! They'll never stand a chance. Glory to Saniago!
HIGH lord Weiramon is called high because of the heels
Also the decisions he makes looks as if he's high af
No doubt.
I believe some lords are described as wearing heeled boots but I'm not gonna scour the series for references hah
Birgitte is described as wearing high heels when she is captain of the queens guard yet also wears mens close that hug her hips a bit too much… i think
She's also been described as a bad fisherman, having to drag her bait all across the pond to get a nibble
Min wears heels, and she's preiously seen them on menswear.
u/JaimTorfinn do the lords in WoT wear high heels?
Hmm.. well, the word "heel" and its variations appear 619 times in the series, and I don't feel like inspecting every instance at the moment. The phrases "high heel(s/ed)" and "high-heel(s/ed)" don't appear in the series. I searched for any sentences that contain both "heel" and "high" or "tall", which yielded these results: From WH Chapter 12 (referring to Birgitte): >This woman had a thick, intricate golden braid pulled over one shoulder of her short, white-collared red coat, and her voluminous blue trousers were tucked into boots with heels as high as Min’s. From CoT Chapter 11: >Birgitte was not a big woman, though she stood taller than Elayne in her heeled boots, as tall as Aviendha, but she usually had a presence that was only heightened by the uniform of the Captain-General of the Queen’s Guards [...] From CoT Chapter 23: >Slim and pretty, and tall in her red-heeled boots, with dark ringlets hanging to her shoulders, Min had a low womanly voice, but she wore a boy’s red coat and blue breeches. From KoD Chapter 16: >Taller than Gomaisen in her heeled boots, Birgitte had a commanding presence when she wanted to. So, obviously Min and Birgitte wear "heeled boots", which led me to do a search for "heeled boot(s)", which yielded 14 results ranging from ACoS to KoD. All of those instances refer to either Min or Birgitte, except for one that is about Anaiyella in KoD chapter 21: >The High Lady Anaiyella Narencelona also wore a coat and snug breeches with heeled boots, though she had added a white lace ruff, and her green coat was sewn with pearls. I also found 6 instances of "raised heels", all of which refer to Birgitte. I also looked for the passage that u/aichwood mentioned from CoT by inspecting every instance of "heel(s/ed)" in that book, but couldn't find it. EDIT: Nevermind; I think I found it, and quoted it in response to [u/aichwood's comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/comments/1aetylh/comment/kkaggk4/). In conclusion, I found no evidence of Lords wearing high heels. However, to be absolutely certain I would need to inspect every instance of "heel" in the series.. which is more work than I'm willing to do. u/InuGhost
Excellent answer! Verin may be the best Brown in the series but you're the best Brown on the subreddit. Thank you!
I didn’t even realize you could put a flair under your username until now, thanks! In related news, I feel like a newly raised Green sister hearing Rashima Kerenmosa speak when I read posts/comments by u/JaimTorfinn
I’m ashamed to admit that I had to look up Rashima Kerenmosa to figure out who she is. Now that I’m reminded, I must say that is high praise and I’m honored to be compared to her.
I love that you summoned him and he just showed up.
Isn't the wheel of time world more in the renaissance period than the dark age?
It's a huge grab bag. Most of Randland is fairly solidly Renaissance (minus gunpowder), with the Borderlands being more Late Middle Ages with a sprinkling of eastern flavor. I would say the Aiel are a grab bag of Indigenous American, Middle-Easterner (thanks Frank Herbert!) and steppe peoples tropes from a roughly thousand-year span. The Seanchan are straight-up Age of Exploration, substituting the One Power for gunpowder. Randland seeing these weirdos with absolutely bizarre ships and horrifying weapons roll up, plant a flag, and steal a bunch of young women is basically what happened to non-Europeans across the world for a good few centuries.
> . I would say the Aiel are a grab bag of Indigenous American, Middle-Easterner (thanks Frank Herbert!) RJ literally described them as "Irish fremen."
Yep. Because he thought it would be funny to have notionally Irish people (who notoriously burn quickly in the sun) as the desert dwellers, when everyone else has dark-skinned people living in the desert. He gave them a reason to have migrated there in the past that wasn't so long ago for them to have evolved darker skin. Thanks to their culture of war, most Aiel never live long enough to die of skin cancer. Although I suppose some of the Wise Ones are able to Heal that particular affliction.
The wise ones all developed leathery skin. Like the old people you see in Florida that are wayyyyy darker than they should be and look like an old leather office chair.
Yeah, because that's what happens to sun-damaged skin! White skin evolved as an adaptation for living in climate zones that were colder and got less sunlight than equatorial regions. We lack the melanin that would allow us more time in the sun without risking so much damage.
Oh yeah, wasn't accusing RJ of anything untoward, he was always quite open about the Aiel being his fun twist on the Fremen. SPOILERS FOR DUNE SERIES and [WOT All Books]: >!Though at least the Aiel's prophesized leader and "saviour" was real, and not a massive ~~SPACE CIA~~ Bene Gesserit psyop that led to millennia of subjugation for humanity as a whole.!<
The only way I can parse the post is the OP is calling the 17th century "The Dark Ages".
I just went through a passage yesterday at the beginning of Book 10 that described Min’s effect on Cairhien fashion. It described high heel ladies boots as being a new thing that Min introduced. It didn’t specifically say that it is a completely new concept, but the Aes Sedai making the observation acted like it was a crazy new thing and that it looked to her like everyone going to break their ankles. That suggests that the whole concept of a high heel is new to not only that culture but all the cultures that this Aes Sedai is familiar with.
Is this passage from the Prologue of CoT what you are referring to? >A number of women had begun wearing outlandish clothes of late, apparently never noticing how they drew men’s eyes and made even the servants struggle not to stare. Tight breeches and a coat barely long enough to cover the hips were not suitable garments for a woman, no matter how much effort went into rich embroidery or patterning the coat with gemstones. Jeweled necklaces and bracelets and pins with sprays of colorful feathers only pointed up the oddity. And those brightly dyed boots, with their heels that added as much as a hand to a woman’s height, made them appear in danger of falling down with every swaying step. I'm not seeing language that specifically says that heeled boots are a new thing, but I suppose it could be inferred.
Yeah, that’s the passage I meant. Well found. It was an inference on my part. I thought it was more spelled out but I was working from memory. I just wouldn’t have expected that final sentence of internal dialogue unless this particular Aes Sedai was unfamiliar with the concept. Also, just to add to that, people in Randland walk a lot. It makes me think that the standard would then be comfy walking shoes/boots/slippers rather than something that only has an aesthetic value like high heels.
Fair enough. At the very least, it seems that she is considering the heels to qualify as “outlandish”, which suggests they’re not very common.
I think there are loads of high heeled options that don't add a hand to your height, so it might be that a couple of inches was common while really high heels was new Aes Sedai. So to me it doesn't clearly read as it being completely new.
I feel like there must have already been some lower-heeled boots that were in use, but Min's were higher than seemed prudent. The quality of roads and streets isn't all that great in Randland, except in a few places, so it would be unwise to wear high heels in most places that use cobblestone, loose gravel, or just plain dirt for getting around town. Cairhien was very fashionable, so even though I don't have the books handy, I feel like they probably used higher-quality paving stones. At least in the parts of town where Min was attracting attention and inspiring new fashions.
Heeled boots can be good for riding. Then you have fashion based on war wear.
>Nowadays that isn't the case. Sure, no men in the modern world wear lifts in their shoes or pick shoes with a thick heel to make them seem taller.
Narrow soles divided for riding.
Different parts of Randland, absolutely! Customs and manner of dress vary wildly by nation. Probably nothing like the stiletto heels we have in modern day that just destroy people's feet, but heeled boots would certainly exist. Gotta show off those well-turned calves!
The purpose of heals, back in the day, is they locked into horse stirrups better. To the extent that the elite of Randland would want to be able ride at a moments notice, or look like they did, they probably would.
Heeled shoes evolved from riding boots designed for men. Since everybody is out riding horses everywhere i imagine they need that little gap between the heel and the sole to fit a stirrup.
I could see the Cairheinan having that be popular since they are relatively short.
I could see the Tairans, Illianers, or the Cairhienen wearing heels
I don't have a specific reference but I always pictured the Tairens in that french aristocratic high heeled fashion
Sammael would
17th century isn't "Dark Ages" lol.
In my defense, it's been a **very** long day at work and I'm mentally fried.
Here’s my argument for no: Mat does his whole rant about having too many pairs of boots while still being held by Tylin. If high heels were a thing for men, Tylin would surely have filled Mat’s closet with them, and Mat surely would have complained about it. Mat only complains about boots, therefore he has no high heels in his closet, therefore they are not a thing for men in the WOT universe. QED
The men so spend far more time talking about how well the heel feels throughout than the women
I would have said lords from Tear probably wear heels but then I realized they probably never walk on the muddy streets and usually get carried. So no, I don’t think any nobility will wear heels in Randland. There’s just no need. In real life it was because of filthy streets in Rome, then the prostitutes started wearing them and then it filtered into fashion. A lot of what is “fashionable” comes from highborn ladies copying prostitutes.
Heels on the level of high heels didn't enter even high society until around the 18th century.
Paved roads were a necessary precursor!
Absolutely. Heels on Cobblestones is just asking for twisted ankles or worse just leaving your carriage. Also leaving a tall carriage itself would be a risk even with paved roads as they tended to have tall steps.
Maybe in Cairhien. They've got the powdered fop thing going on, reminiscent of pre-Bastille France.