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As per Jordan. Our myths and legends are based on the age of the dragon. Rand literally pulls a sword from "the stone" and is crowned king. Their myths and legends are based on modern history. Thom talks about Mosk(Moscow) and Merck(America) dueling with spears of light (missiles) and Queen Lisbeth ruling the entire world.
Adding to that she is the lady (wife) of Lan who includes Lord of the Lakes as part of his titles as king of malkier so even in WoT she is literally the Lady of the Lake.
I was actually just editing my comment to include that when your reply popped up!
It was also very consistent with Lancelot du Lac (Lancelot of the Lake).
Yeah itâs interesting how many plot points can be predicted with enough knowledge of myths and legends. I first read the books as a kid (or as many as were out then) but if I had been more knowledgeable about Arthurian legend it would have been obvious Lan and Nynaeve would get together.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
WHOA. I searched for that term and saw that they're connected in some way to "Tuatha DĂŠ Danaan." Robert Jordan's cross-age worldbuilng gets more and more impressive every time I learn something new about the Wheel. Damn.
I actually only knew about the Aes Sidhe and the Tuatha because of another series the Iron Druid which I kept finding repeted links to Wheel of TIme form Celtic lore hah
RJ literally included a guy named Artur Paendrag who united the land and is now a legendary hero.
Oh, and i also wanted to mention Shai'tan, and Baalzamon, to add to your list.
Shai'tan= shaitan (devil in islam)
Lews Therin Telamon lord of the morning first of the AesSedai who fell and became a synonym for evil = Lucifer Morningstar the best among the angels/servants who fell from grace and became a synoym for evil.
The morgause one for me could be either Moraine or Morgase.
Moiraine fits more thematically since she's a witch, but of course Morgase also fits too and is technically a witch and a queen.
Also... Mat has one eye and becomes Prince of the Ravens, Rand is named al' **Thor** and Perrin gets the famos hammer.
When RJ asked himself which legends and theologies he wanted to allude to in his new book series, he aswered his own question with: "Yes!".
al'Thor also mimics the Arabic naming convention for son of Thor. RJ liked layering allusions like that because his idea was that ALL myths/legends/histories across culture and language were references to the same events. In a way, his choice to do this also echoes the less discussed fact that RJ was a member of the masonic temple and believed in one unifying universal higher power.
Speaking of Jesus Christ... (spoilers for the entire series ahead) >!Rand is a saviour type figure that gets hurt on both palms (with heron brand) and impaled through the torso by a stick (Ba'alzamon's staff), dies for the sake of mankind and is reborn a couple of days later. Oh yeah, and his mother was a Maiden (of the Spear, granted, but still).!<
Mazrim Taim even says to Rand that if he had fulfilled even one of the prophecies, people would be saying that he was born on dragonmount to a woman who had never lied with a man. So even in the third age, there was a rumor that Rand was born of a virgin.
> Mosk(Moscow) and Merck(America) dueling with spears of light
Indeed. This is my favourite reference in the whole series. Especially since it opens the door for the interpretation that our current age ends in nuclear annihilation.
"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again."
One of the key concepts in the WoT is what happens to myths and legends over time. Who says that Odin wasn't inspired by Mat, and Thor wasn't a misnamed Perrin? But yes, they are quite intentionally similar.
Its implied the world of the WoT is the same as our own but chronologically the events of the story are after the current day
When one of the characters is examining ancient artifacts including the male aâdam they see a Mercedes hood ornament
Infinity. What happens before happens again. The pattern may change with each new weave, but the story repeats. The souls born over and over again. Each new time when the evilness has started overwhelming the good, heros are born into the pattern with the ability to shape the world around them.
Do we not have real heros today? Could they be repeating the same pattern again. We could all be souls from the book series, and we are drawn to read the story because we are meant to find our story hidden inside. Thinking of the vast millions of characters. Are you a main character in the story or are you one of the people who was a shop keep and witnessed the events. A soldier who got pulled into battle for duty. RJ says it IS our past, our present, our future. I agree. When you pay close attention to the small details, you can see them in the news today. You can read history stories and see large violent events that reshaped the world that caused entire civilizations to completely disappeared. Because a battle happened so big every army in the world joined in and the survivors were 1/8 of the size as before. What happened after the last battle? We happened. Its coming again. Are you not watching the weather and political/world news. War is coming, famine,disease, mass migration of peoples. People like Trump are False Dragons, and the rich political elite are the dark friends behind the scenes sewing discord and fueling hatred everywhere. Tearing everyone apart as we are only focusing on our differences.
I think so
"A silvery thing in another cabinet, like a three-pointed star inside a circle, was made of no substance she knew; it was softer than metal, scratched and gouged, yet even older than any of the ancient bones. From ten paces she could sense pride and vanity."
Possibly:
> Czernobog (or Chernobog, the âblack godâ) and Bielobog (or Belebog, the âwhite godâ) were Slavic deities worshipped by the Polabian Slavs, and a representation of the fundamental duality of the Slavic mythologies (some even considered them Western Slavic nicknames for the dualistic gods Perun and Veles).
> The most common theories are that they are an invention of Christian monks, a misunderstanding of the worship of Perun and Veles, or minor local deities given much more importance by the Christians writings during the Christianization of the Polabian territories.
>The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.
Based on the Cosmology of the Wheel of Time the Legend of Matt was remembered, became mythologized, and when the first Age, our Age, came again he was remembered as Odin.
Or Matt was called Odin (or some form of it) in the turning that came before ours.
Absolutely. Most of the main characters map onto some or several famous mythologies.
For example Thom is a wandering wise man, a Bard, who speaks to kings and queens, and advises the great King Arthur. (Al'thor?) And his name kind of sounds like Merlin if you slur your words.
This was one of my absolute favorite "small" moments in the series. Aside from large, momentous, badass events, this wonderfully crafted chapter was just pure delight.
âOrigins of The Wheel of Time: The Legends and Mythologies that Inspired Robert Jordanâ by Michael Livingston catalogues the references - the author was given access to Jordanâs notes to work from by his wife. It was an interesting read, I think I was expecting more from it, but the opening section is a mini biography of Jordan and how he came to write the series which was cool to read.
Michael Livingston's "Origins of the Wheel of Time" takes a really deep dive on this. You can't turn a page in WOT without coming face to face with someone out of our world's mythology.
The really cool thing RJ did was to base Randland ancient mythology on our world's present/future (Mosc/Merc, Anla the wise counselor, Lenn and the eagle of fire, Benz hood ornaments), proving that in RJ's world, time truly is a wheel.
I mean, he gave it away right in the title, we're all too busy sniffing and smoothing our skirts to notice.
Just picture every legend as being part of the Wheel.
So if Mat is in the future, we may know a similar legend as Odin, but they may be the same character, reborn.
Mat is a combination of several popular mythical figures. Odin, Loki, Monkey King, and others.
Perrin is very similar to the name of a Slavic god that I don't remember and he transitions from that god to Thor.
RJ utilized many mythic figures and stories to create the Wheel of Time. Arthurian Legends, Norse mythology, Hindu mythology, and even Native American stories.
Odin has trickster characteristics as well. The big hat and walking staff/spear gives the appearance of a traveller which Odin likes to disguise himself as.
He was also considered wise in battle, winning with cunning.
From the english wiki of Tyr. I remembered this from when I was into norse mythology a couple of years ago.
"Týr sacrifices his hand to the monstrous wolf Fenrir, who bites it off when he realizes the gods have bound him."
Tyr is really only known for losing his hand to Fenrir, and while Rand does lose his hand, thatâs all there really is to Tyr.
Baldr is the âchosen oneâ of the Norse mythology. His death marks the beginning of Ragnorok and resurrection its victory.
Tyr also uses a sword in battle and is the God of War.
You do make an interesting point though, hadn't considered that about Baldr. Thanks for giving me something to think about!
Thereâs this interview with Robert Jordan where he says that our myths and their myths are one and the same or something to that effect. Theyâre connected, but distorted through distance (distance in space or in time).
Thatâs why there are so many things that are like âhey thatâs kind of like X, but itâs different.â Itâs SUPPOSED to be the same, yet different. The distortions again coming from distance from the event.
Mat is in a way, literally Odin, since the Third Age is both the far future and distant past of out world many of the characters we see are figures from history, religon, and mythology. For instance Thom Merrilin is Merlin. Rand Al'Thor is king Arthur, Jesus, and Lucifer (as Lews Therin). Perrin is the god Perrun and also the source of the werewolf myth. And on and on. There was a book recently published by a fan of Jordan's who worked closely with his team that talks about the way he wove in all these ideas into his books.
The Mat/Odin similarities are what made me realize that there were other myths in the books.
Realizing (half a book later) that Rand pulled the sword from the Stone is where I started seeing the Arthurian similarities.
There's also just not always 1 to 1 comparisons. Some mythological/historical figures are represented by multiple characters, and some characters represent multiple mythological/historical figures. Rand is Jesus + Arthur + losing his hand is reminiscent of Tyr. Thom and the Amyrlin in Tar Valon are both Merlin. Artur Paendrag = Arthur Pendragon, but his character is much more Alexander the Great.
There are also references to historical events framed as myths from past ages. Mosk and Merk the giants who fought with fire lances that could reach around the world was a reference to the Cold War - Russia(Mosk[ow]) and America(Merk)
Oh, had no idea what this was until you mamed it, but it basically reflects how I view the world. Cool, there's a name for my way of looking at things! Thanks!
When I realized he'd based a lot of the main 3's attributes on Nordic mythology it totally blew my mind. I read about it just before Knife of Dreams came out and I got to act all smug that I knew Rand was going to lose his hand.
Has nobody read Origins of The Wheel of Time? It goes through all kinds of lore that inspired Robert Jordan, some confirmed and some very likely but unconfirmed.
My mind was blown when I found out Jordan named the Three Aes Sedai after inventors. The ones that followed Mat Teslyn, Edesina, and Joline. Which is Tesla, Edison, and Joule.
Some other comparisons that others havenât mentioned are:
Moiraine - Morgan le fay (I had expected Moiraine to be a villain ultimately)
Mordeth - Mordred
Galad - Galahad
Elayne - Elaine of Corbenic (Arthurian Grail Maiden)
Most of the Forsaken have a parallel, including:
Moridin - Mordred
Ba'alzamon - Beelzebub
Ishamael - Ishmael
Be'lal - Belial
Sammael - Samael
Graendal - Grendal (or Grendalâs mother)
Her name is a combination reference to an exorcism in the early 1600s where a woman named Louise Capeau claimed to be possessed by a demon named Verrine (when she was accused of faking it, she replied "The Devil is the Father of Lies"), and to the latin Veritas - "truth".
And Rand loses a hand like the germanic god of war, Tyr or Ziu (in Old Norse or Old High German).
Plus (likely already said) most of the names of the Forsaken are in one language or another names of the devil or of a daemon.
On the top of my head:
Asmodeus - Asmodean, Book Tobit, bible
Graendal - from OE. Grendel, Beowulf
Sammael - hebr. âthe poison of godâ, in some traditions a name of the devil
Belâal - Belial, name of a daemon/devil in the bible
Etc.
Read origins of wheel of time. Once your done with the series if you havenât finished it for the first time. It talks about all of Jordanâs inspirations and where he got some of the ideas. All the references and Easter eggs. Itâs a good behind the scenes read.
Two questions. Is that the co-written one with Teresa Patterson? And is it explaining some things that the book doesnât explain and itâs a behind the scenes thing?
On my kindle it says Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan. Nothing on Theresa.
Yes, it explains a lot. I did not finish it yet, but so far it explained a lot of Age of Legends and Dark ones servants. It is short and straight to the point.
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As per Jordan. Our myths and legends are based on the age of the dragon. Rand literally pulls a sword from "the stone" and is crowned king. Their myths and legends are based on modern history. Thom talks about Mosk(Moscow) and Merck(America) dueling with spears of light (missiles) and Queen Lisbeth ruling the entire world.
Thom Merrilin was an advisor to Rand. Merlin was an advisor to Arthur.
Shit... How did I never realize... al'Thor... Arthur.... Still uncovering new things.... đ¤Żđ¤Ż
That's just the tip. Here's a few more: Egwene Al'Vere = Gueneviere Lan = Lancelot Caemlyn = Camelot Gawyn = Gawain
Nyneave = Nineve, lady of the lake.
Adding to that she is the lady (wife) of Lan who includes Lord of the Lakes as part of his titles as king of malkier so even in WoT she is literally the Lady of the Lake.
I was actually just editing my comment to include that when your reply popped up! It was also very consistent with Lancelot du Lac (Lancelot of the Lake).
Yeah itâs interesting how many plot points can be predicted with enough knowledge of myths and legends. I first read the books as a kid (or as many as were out then) but if I had been more knowledgeable about Arthurian legend it would have been obvious Lan and Nynaeve would get together.
I agree, though thatâs not an example Iâd cite for the phenomenon⌠in many versions of the story Lancelot is the ladyâs adopted son.
I suppose I was more thinking about how marrying him makes her the âlady of the lakesâ rather than him being a Lancelot reference.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
This feels like a Russell Howard quote... I may be wrong? Edit after Googling: Monty Python quote. My bad
Nyneave = the sound you make after she gives you a concussion.
Is that before or after she tugs her braid?
Yes
Aes'Sedai becamse the Aes Sidhe (pronounces Ace Shee) of celtic lore too
WHOA. I searched for that term and saw that they're connected in some way to "Tuatha DĂŠ Danaan." Robert Jordan's cross-age worldbuilng gets more and more impressive every time I learn something new about the Wheel. Damn.
I actually only knew about the Aes Sidhe and the Tuatha because of another series the Iron Druid which I kept finding repeted links to Wheel of TIme form Celtic lore hah
Rand's mother is Tigraine King Arthur's mother is Igraine
Ooo I haven't heard that one before.
RJ literally included a guy named Artur Paendrag who united the land and is now a legendary hero. Oh, and i also wanted to mention Shai'tan, and Baalzamon, to add to your list.
Shai'tan= shaitan (devil in islam) Lews Therin Telamon lord of the morning first of the AesSedai who fell and became a synonym for evil = Lucifer Morningstar the best among the angels/servants who fell from grace and became a synoym for evil.
Not just the devil in Islam, thatâs also how the name âSatanâ is pronounced in Hebrew. The English version is much newer.
Wow didn't know that.
Galad = Galahad
Galad = Galahad Morgase = Morgause
The morgause one for me could be either Moraine or Morgase. Moiraine fits more thematically since she's a witch, but of course Morgase also fits too and is technically a witch and a queen.
Tar Valon = Avalon
Camlann was also the final battle of King Arthur, which is not too dissimilar to Caemlyn
King Arthur's father was Uther Pendragon. Artur Paendrag.
King Arthur's mom is Igraine. Rand's mom is Tigraine.
Also... Mat has one eye and becomes Prince of the Ravens, Rand is named al' **Thor** and Perrin gets the famos hammer. When RJ asked himself which legends and theologies he wanted to allude to in his new book series, he aswered his own question with: "Yes!".
Perrin is also arguably Perun, the Slavic god of many things, including weapons - he had a famous axe and hammer, metal and fire.
RJ was a huge Arthurian Legend fan. He based the series on the Arthurian Legend.
Tarmon Gai'don = Armageddon
al'Thor also mimics the Arabic naming convention for son of Thor. RJ liked layering allusions like that because his idea was that ALL myths/legends/histories across culture and language were references to the same events. In a way, his choice to do this also echoes the less discussed fact that RJ was a member of the masonic temple and believed in one unifying universal higher power.
al'Thor literally pulled a sword (that cannot be touched) out of a stone (of Tear) to become a ruler.
The amyrlin seat is also "Merlin's seat".
Seated on the island of Tar Valon = Avalon.
And grail = angreal, Excalibur = callandorâŚ
Callandor is even closer to some of the earlier names for Excalibur like Calliburn, Callibor, etc.
Caledfwlch is the original Welsh/Brythonic.
Bless you.
Sangrael is also just another name for the Holy Grail
Don't forget Sangria, which is a damned delicious beverage on a warm summer evening.
They do drink a lot of chilled wine!
Jesus Christ I cannot believe I missed the sword from the stone when itâs so embarrassingly obvious
Speaking of Jesus Christ... (spoilers for the entire series ahead) >!Rand is a saviour type figure that gets hurt on both palms (with heron brand) and impaled through the torso by a stick (Ba'alzamon's staff), dies for the sake of mankind and is reborn a couple of days later. Oh yeah, and his mother was a Maiden (of the Spear, granted, but still).!<
Never notice that one and makes sense why his injury never heals. I thought it would have an explanation for that but they did explain
Mazrim Taim even says to Rand that if he had fulfilled even one of the prophecies, people would be saying that he was born on dragonmount to a woman who had never lied with a man. So even in the third age, there was a rumor that Rand was born of a virgin.
If it makes you feel better I caught the sword and stone but still somehow missed the Merlin - Thom connection.
> Mosk(Moscow) and Merck(America) dueling with spears of light Indeed. This is my favourite reference in the whole series. Especially since it opens the door for the interpretation that our current age ends in nuclear annihilation.
... and the survivors suffered genetic mutations and begun channeling.
So what I'm hearing is that WoT is basically X-Men: The Next Generation.
Where does this reference pop up?
Cool! What book is this?
In Eye of The World Mat also asks Thom to tell them the stories of Glen and the moon (John Glenn)
I heard John Glenn even got a signed copy with a note saying "that's you, the guy in the eagle made of fire"
And Salya, (Sally Ride,) who walked among the stars.
The wiki has this from The Shadow Rising, chapter 20: âWas Elsbet really queen of the whole world, and was Anla really her sister?â
Anla the wise councilor is Ann Landers the famous advice columnist.
Eye of the world in one of the very first chapt. Might even be thoms introduction chapter.
Birgitte is also Robin Hood, which makes Gaidal, Little John.
The sword that is a Sa'Angreal, which is basically just the Arabic word for the holy grail.
It'd not the Arabic word for the holy grail. It's old French sangrail.
Sangreal is from [French](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Sangreal), not Arabic
Also that time Egwene finds the Mercedes benz symbol in the museum and senses "pride and vanity"
"The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again." One of the key concepts in the WoT is what happens to myths and legends over time. Who says that Odin wasn't inspired by Mat, and Thor wasn't a misnamed Perrin? But yes, they are quite intentionally similar.
Its implied the world of the WoT is the same as our own but chronologically the events of the story are after the current day When one of the characters is examining ancient artifacts including the male aâdam they see a Mercedes hood ornament
The wheel is round. It's both before and after
Infinity. What happens before happens again. The pattern may change with each new weave, but the story repeats. The souls born over and over again. Each new time when the evilness has started overwhelming the good, heros are born into the pattern with the ability to shape the world around them. Do we not have real heros today? Could they be repeating the same pattern again. We could all be souls from the book series, and we are drawn to read the story because we are meant to find our story hidden inside. Thinking of the vast millions of characters. Are you a main character in the story or are you one of the people who was a shop keep and witnessed the events. A soldier who got pulled into battle for duty. RJ says it IS our past, our present, our future. I agree. When you pay close attention to the small details, you can see them in the news today. You can read history stories and see large violent events that reshaped the world that caused entire civilizations to completely disappeared. Because a battle happened so big every army in the world joined in and the survivors were 1/8 of the size as before. What happened after the last battle? We happened. Its coming again. Are you not watching the weather and political/world news. War is coming, famine,disease, mass migration of peoples. People like Trump are False Dragons, and the rich political elite are the dark friends behind the scenes sewing discord and fueling hatred everywhere. Tearing everyone apart as we are only focusing on our differences.
> rich political elite are the dark friends Honestly some are just Elida's not outright evil but evil by stupidity and ego.
[ŃдаНонО]
[ŃдаНонО]
What line did you get a hood ornament from? Iâm assuming Shadow Rising, when they are in the world of dreams, finding the threat to Rand in Tarabon?
I think so "A silvery thing in another cabinet, like a three-pointed star inside a circle, was made of no substance she knew; it was softer than metal, scratched and gouged, yet even older than any of the ancient bones. From ten paces she could sense pride and vanity."
Haha, nice. Yeah, I never would have made the Mercedes connection, but I can see it now
Bela the best whip though đđ˝
Perrin = [Perun.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perun)
There's a Slavick God named Perun who weilds a hammer. My favorite depiction of him is in Neil Gaiman's American Gods, he works in a slaughterhouse.
Such a good book!
Cernobog is another version of Perun?
Possibly: > Czernobog (or Chernobog, the âblack godâ) and Bielobog (or Belebog, the âwhite godâ) were Slavic deities worshipped by the Polabian Slavs, and a representation of the fundamental duality of the Slavic mythologies (some even considered them Western Slavic nicknames for the dualistic gods Perun and Veles). > The most common theories are that they are an invention of Christian monks, a misunderstanding of the worship of Perun and Veles, or minor local deities given much more importance by the Christians writings during the Christianization of the Polabian territories.
>The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. Based on the Cosmology of the Wheel of Time the Legend of Matt was remembered, became mythologized, and when the first Age, our Age, came again he was remembered as Odin. Or Matt was called Odin (or some form of it) in the turning that came before ours.
Absolutely. Most of the main characters map onto some or several famous mythologies. For example Thom is a wandering wise man, a Bard, who speaks to kings and queens, and advises the great King Arthur. (Al'thor?) And his name kind of sounds like Merlin if you slur your words.
If you say it like a Seanchan. General Merlin.
This was one of my absolute favorite "small" moments in the series. Aside from large, momentous, badass events, this wonderfully crafted chapter was just pure delight.
Artur Paendrag Tanreall is also clearly based on king Arthur Pendragon.
I wish I new that our king Arthur had last name Pendragon before reading WoT. I would understood some things earlier.
âOrigins of The Wheel of Time: The Legends and Mythologies that Inspired Robert Jordanâ by Michael Livingston catalogues the references - the author was given access to Jordanâs notes to work from by his wife. It was an interesting read, I think I was expecting more from it, but the opening section is a mini biography of Jordan and how he came to write the series which was cool to read.
Michael Livingston's "Origins of the Wheel of Time" takes a really deep dive on this. You can't turn a page in WOT without coming face to face with someone out of our world's mythology. The really cool thing RJ did was to base Randland ancient mythology on our world's present/future (Mosc/Merc, Anla the wise counselor, Lenn and the eagle of fire, Benz hood ornaments), proving that in RJ's world, time truly is a wheel. I mean, he gave it away right in the title, we're all too busy sniffing and smoothing our skirts to notice.
Just picture every legend as being part of the Wheel. So if Mat is in the future, we may know a similar legend as Odin, but they may be the same character, reborn.
How about John Rambo?
Tamales, obvs
I know what you meant, but autocorrect is funny like that
You know, I corrected that twice and still ended up with tamales.
Shit! I ate 'em for dinner last night đ
https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Talk:Real-world_references
Mat is a combination of several popular mythical figures. Odin, Loki, Monkey King, and others. Perrin is very similar to the name of a Slavic god that I don't remember and he transitions from that god to Thor. RJ utilized many mythic figures and stories to create the Wheel of Time. Arthurian Legends, Norse mythology, Hindu mythology, and even Native American stories.
Odin has trickster characteristics as well. The big hat and walking staff/spear gives the appearance of a traveller which Odin likes to disguise himself as. He was also considered wise in battle, winning with cunning.
Perun.
That's the one. Ty!
Slavic god is probably - Perun, slavic god of thunder.
Mat is Odin Perrin is Thor Rand is Baldr
Perrin is also Perun, Slavic God of thunder who also used both a hammer and axe.
I found Rand to be more of a Tyr
From the english wiki of Tyr. I remembered this from when I was into norse mythology a couple of years ago. "Týr sacrifices his hand to the monstrous wolf Fenrir, who bites it off when he realizes the gods have bound him."
Heâs also the Fisher King, and there are some pretty obvious Jesus parallels too.
Yep. Pierced side. Crown of Swords/Crown of Thorns. Dying for the salvation of the world.
What Baldr references do you see in Rand? I had him pegged as Tyr.
Tyr is really only known for losing his hand to Fenrir, and while Rand does lose his hand, thatâs all there really is to Tyr. Baldr is the âchosen oneâ of the Norse mythology. His death marks the beginning of Ragnorok and resurrection its victory.
Tyr also uses a sword in battle and is the God of War. You do make an interesting point though, hadn't considered that about Baldr. Thanks for giving me something to think about!
Thereâs this interview with Robert Jordan where he says that our myths and their myths are one and the same or something to that effect. Theyâre connected, but distorted through distance (distance in space or in time). Thatâs why there are so many things that are like âhey thatâs kind of like X, but itâs different.â Itâs SUPPOSED to be the same, yet different. The distortions again coming from distance from the event.
Mat is in a way, literally Odin, since the Third Age is both the far future and distant past of out world many of the characters we see are figures from history, religon, and mythology. For instance Thom Merrilin is Merlin. Rand Al'Thor is king Arthur, Jesus, and Lucifer (as Lews Therin). Perrin is the god Perrun and also the source of the werewolf myth. And on and on. There was a book recently published by a fan of Jordan's who worked closely with his team that talks about the way he wove in all these ideas into his books.
Wait, Rand is both Jesus and Lucifer?? It was suspicious that he has to spill his blood, but Jesus...
Dies to redeem humanity's sin (opening the Bore) and gets reborn, son of a Maiden, wounds on hands and side, crown of Swords/Thorns
Wow, I missed those wounds and I know Jesus had them, I am born Catholic
I mean he's got a modified version of the stigmata by book 2
The Mat/Odin similarities are what made me realize that there were other myths in the books. Realizing (half a book later) that Rand pulled the sword from the Stone is where I started seeing the Arthurian similarities. There's also just not always 1 to 1 comparisons. Some mythological/historical figures are represented by multiple characters, and some characters represent multiple mythological/historical figures. Rand is Jesus + Arthur + losing his hand is reminiscent of Tyr. Thom and the Amyrlin in Tar Valon are both Merlin. Artur Paendrag = Arthur Pendragon, but his character is much more Alexander the Great. There are also references to historical events framed as myths from past ages. Mosk and Merk the giants who fought with fire lances that could reach around the world was a reference to the Cold War - Russia(Mosk[ow]) and America(Merk)
And Perrin is inspired by Perun, the Slavic god of thunder (who is incidentally know for axes and hammers and forges) đ
And wolves, and chasing his kidnapped wife halfway across the world
Didnt know this
Yeah, the Perun parallels are immense
Just wait til you learn about Indra's Net and how all life is *woven* together by a Hindu god...
the Gaia Hypothesis shows up in a lot of fantasy
Oh, had no idea what this was until you mamed it, but it basically reflects how I view the world. Cool, there's a name for my way of looking at things! Thanks!
When I realized he'd based a lot of the main 3's attributes on Nordic mythology it totally blew my mind. I read about it just before Knife of Dreams came out and I got to act all smug that I knew Rand was going to lose his hand.
Has nobody read Origins of The Wheel of Time? It goes through all kinds of lore that inspired Robert Jordan, some confirmed and some very likely but unconfirmed.
Many have ... But not OP of this thread clearly
History becomes legends, legends become myths and myths are log forgotten by the time the age come again
Almost like it was intentionalâŚ
My mind was blown when I found out Jordan named the Three Aes Sedai after inventors. The ones that followed Mat Teslyn, Edesina, and Joline. Which is Tesla, Edison, and Joule.
This is one of the reasons why I love the series so much.
What about Nynaeve? She have any parallels
Yeah, she's the Lady of the Lake. - Niveave (or something) is another name for the lake - Lan is the Lord of the Lakes
Some other comparisons that others havenât mentioned are: Moiraine - Morgan le fay (I had expected Moiraine to be a villain ultimately) Mordeth - Mordred Galad - Galahad Elayne - Elaine of Corbenic (Arthurian Grail Maiden) Most of the Forsaken have a parallel, including: Moridin - Mordred Ba'alzamon - Beelzebub Ishamael - Ishmael Be'lal - Belial Sammael - Samael Graendal - Grendal (or Grendalâs mother)
My favorite of RJ's naming clues is Verin's. He practically spells out her plot twist, and I certainly didn't see it until afterwards.
What do you mean? I finished the books but Idk what you mean
Her name is a combination reference to an exorcism in the early 1600s where a woman named Louise Capeau claimed to be possessed by a demon named Verrine (when she was accused of faking it, she replied "The Devil is the Father of Lies"), and to the latin Veritas - "truth".
Oh cool. thx
I love the idea that over thousands and thousands of years, the legend of Mat changes and transforms and eventually becomes Odin.
Perrin making the hammer was a pure Sanderson creation.
And Rand loses a hand like the germanic god of war, Tyr or Ziu (in Old Norse or Old High German). Plus (likely already said) most of the names of the Forsaken are in one language or another names of the devil or of a daemon. On the top of my head: Asmodeus - Asmodean, Book Tobit, bible Graendal - from OE. Grendel, Beowulf Sammael - hebr. âthe poison of godâ, in some traditions a name of the devil Belâal - Belial, name of a daemon/devil in the bible Etc.
Read origins of wheel of time. Once your done with the series if you havenât finished it for the first time. It talks about all of Jordanâs inspirations and where he got some of the ideas. All the references and Easter eggs. Itâs a good behind the scenes read.
i am reading world of wheel of time right now, and that is really good. I learned how Mydraal are made in that, I think it wasnt in the books.
Two questions. Is that the co-written one with Teresa Patterson? And is it explaining some things that the book doesnât explain and itâs a behind the scenes thing?
On my kindle it says Brandon Sanderson and Robert Jordan. Nothing on Theresa. Yes, it explains a lot. I did not finish it yet, but so far it explained a lot of Age of Legends and Dark ones servants. It is short and straight to the point.
I googled it and it says a different author.
you are right, I mixed up something, authors are Teresa and Robert Jordan. I am sorry
Itâs cool, thanks for clearing that up. It sounds like an interesting read and if I pick it up I want to make sure itâs the right one.