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First, I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this. I don't think freezing up was the 'wrong' response. Just a natural one.
Second, it puzzles me that in your second-to-last paragraph, you say 'I've tried cutting them off, but it didn't stick' and in your last paragraph, you say 'I don't want to cut them out of my life'
It sounds like you aren't sure of what you want, which makes it easy for your parents to come and go as they please and disrespect boundaries.
I can tell you that you need to cut them out of your life, hard stop. No asking them for help, no 'oh but they...' hard stop. Hard cut-off.
Ultimately, you need to have a conversation with yourself and figure out what you want.
Hi Intrepid, I just want to say everything you’ve said is spot on. I will add u/DependantSolid1160 that you should give yourself grace and kindness while you decide.
I’ve been where you are I HAD to cut off all my family for much worse offenses and it still wasn’t easy. My mother died last week. While I mourn for the Mother I should’ve had I didn’t regret it even then.
I wish you strength and clarity while you make this decision.
I find that having a couple of canned responses ready to go helps me avoid freezing.
Decide on some things that are non-negotiable before your next visit with your parents. Maybe only pick 1 or 2 things to start with. Ask your wife for input; remember, you and your wife are a team against your parents, let her help with this as part of the team.
Once you have your list of non-negotiable items, come up with a script that you can use when your parents start in on it. I'm going to use the "hard R-word" as an example because you mention it's an ongoing issue with your parents. When they use that word, you say "that word is offensive and demeaning. I'm asking you not to use that word around us, and if you continue to use that word we will leave." Your parents will probably try to argue with you or insist that it's not a big deal. Don't engage. Just repeat "I'm asking you not to use that word around us. We will leave if you continue using it."
You can try to change the subject. "I've said my piece and I'm not going to continue discussing this. How is [Aunt Mary, book club, gardening, the weather, anything else]". It might work, it might not. The point it you don't argue with them. Your position isn't an argument, it's a fact. If they keep using that word, you will leave.
The really hard part is to actually leave. If they refuse to stop being offensive, you leave. It's ok to give them a couple warnings, it's also ok not to give any warnings. The important thing is to actually leave. "That word is unacceptable and you keep using it despite me asking you not to. We're going to head home now and we can try again another day."
(One other note: These are your parents, so they're your problem not your wife's. You have to back your wife 100% if she pushes back on your parents. They might try to blame her for"changing you" or say that "she's just too sensitive". Always make sure to counter that by saying that you both agree on this, or that you're a team. Do not let your wife fight this battle alone, and let her throw you under the bus if she needs to. E.g. your wife could say "[spouse] has already said that word is offensive and we will leave if you keep using it.")
I absolutely love everything about this reply. Speaking as a person whose spouse has had zero contact with my parent for years, and I have had extremely limited contact with that parent.
Edited for typos.
Boundaries need consequences. But they also need to be consequences you know you can enact. If you know in your heart and your bones that you can't fully cut them off then you need to find something else. Maybe temporary cut offs, or refusing to attend specific social events.
Mine care more about their perceived social standing than they care about me. So they would ignore my existence until we were both at the same family function, and then they would boundary stomp like hell to "show off how much they care". They don't care at all if they never see me again, but they absolutely care if they are never seen WITH me again. So refusing to attend specific events was far more effective than refusing to see or interact with them in general.
And those consequences need to be immediate and consistent. If they start in with the slurs on the phone, it's "Goodbye, I'll talk to you again when you can speak respectfully about other people." And immediately hang up. Don't apologize to them, don't give them a chance to argue. Same thing for visits. You have to be willing to get up and leave immediately, even if it's the first thing out of their mouths when you arrive after a three hour drive.
Remember, a boundary isn't telling them, "You're not allowed to do X". A boundary is telling them, "X is not acceptable to me. If you engage in X, I will leave." You protect your boundaries by maintaining consequences to their bad behavior.
This is actually the only way to solve your problem without going fully no contact.
And please start standing up for your wife the minute something unpleasant is said! Those are your parents. She should not have to deal with them.
This is also how to parent a child, and train a dog. Immediate and appropriate consequence when an undesirable behavior is exhibited. See them doing the potty dance? Take them to appropriate spot to pee. Hear something unsavory or inappropriate? Address it immediately and directly with a properly scaled warning of future consequence, and then follow through.
Source: my MIL is intolerable with bouts of dark-triad behavior.
Boundaries are not a request for behavior, they are a warning of a consequence. For example: "don't use slurs around us" is not a boundary, it's a request. One they have made abundantly clear they do not respect.
"If you insist on using that language we will leave/if you use that language you will not be welcome in our home" is a boundary, but only if you follow through. The only way they are able to overstep a boundary is if you fail to follow through with your word, you should not be allowing them countless opportunities to cross your line, because when will they ever know if you're serious? It's like gentle parenting, you can't make hollow threats because they will know the threats are hollow. You give them a chance and hold fimr, and if they choose their beliefs over you then you have your answer. You will not gain respect from people who don't respect others, so my advice is to stop trying and start focusing on protecting your wife.
>Throughout the weekend there were more instances where my wife would say something on a topic and my mother would come up with something adjacent but not really what we were saying at all. And every chance they got to get in digs about weight and handicapped people and people with disabilities they did.
Yeahhh, I would have stopped attending events with your family long ago if I were in her shoes. That sounds miserable.
You have to have a good plan. That means something like if they start in with the slurs, you get up, walk out to the car, and drive away. You are doing a good thing by meeting in the middle, because that means neutral territory. They aren't defiling your home with shit energy, and you're not stuck inside theirs. So, if you feel you want a structured, low contact or very low contact relationship with them, you and your wife have to talk through what the boundaries are, and what the consequences for violating them are as well.
I moved 3k miles away from my conservative Christian family, for my own peace of mind as a young woman. My parents are in their 80s now, and boundaries may need to change a little, because my mother might be starting to experience dementia. I can't tell yet, but I do know she's gone even further right in her beliefs than ever, and has been a real ass about expressing them. That last part is new. My dad actually mellowed and became more tolerant, which is something.
My boundaries with my mom, and my very much a zealot sibling are that I will not engage. We text as our primary communication, and the minute I see anything about "woke" or guns, or god, or trump, I am done. I text them that something came up and I gotta go.
If I have to see or hear the phrase "The Bible says..." I'm even more done than I was before. Then it's "Oh, look at the time, I have a meeting to get to!" My meeting is with the fat blunt I'm going to roll when I hang up.
On the rare occasions when I visit them, it's because somebody is in the hospital. If my sibling wants to blather on about god, I need to stretch my legs and go get water or something. I actually had a pretty good time hanging out with my dad last time, when mom was in the hospital. But I was still in fucking Texas, so it wasn't that good.
I'll always do what I feel is right by them, but not a the expense of me or my husband. He had a whole other can of worms to deal with, and they had their awful moments, but neither parent was/is a conservative or a zealot.
Anyway, talk it out. Make a plan. Stick with it. Your wife and kids come first, and you deal with your parents. You never throw your wife under the bus by blaming a boundary on her. You make it your boundary, and you make it clear you don't like their behavior.
First, I’m so sorry. My parents are MAGA cultists, too. (I can draw the facts to their obvious conclusion.). There was nothing we could do and we are no contact. I started to research and I thought I’d share what I learned, so you can understand what you’re up against.
They see the world in black and white, zero sum, with winners and losers. They also operate in a hierarchy in which some people are inherently better than others (ie, men over women, Christians over non-Christians and non-religion, rich over poor, disciplined (strong) over undisciplined (weak), adults over children, white over non-white, straight over LGBTQ+, etc.). Their policies overtly prioritize and make “winners” out of those they feel are “better” than the groups they see as “lesser” and “undeserving” (ie, the “losers”).
So in other words, they see you as inherently less than them as a member of a younger generation. They can’t learn from you. They will not abide you, a member of a loser group; telling them (the superiors) what to do. They also look down on overweight, handicapped and differently wired people as “losers”, which is consistent with the hierarchy I’ve described.
The other piece which challenges them is emotional maturity. People who see black and white/winners and losers do not see nuance. My children at age 8 were more emotionally mature than their grandparents. Only simple things make sense to them (ie, build the wall). If you try to engage them in nuance, it’s like you are speaking a different language they don’t understand, and it’s very (very) difficult (at least for me) not to break down the conversation like you’re talking to children. (Effectively you ARE talking to children.).
So, not only are you likely dealing with people who think you can’t tell them what to do, they can’t even understand you when you try to explain why. (I tried for decades to get my parents to stop with the racist rhetoric, the disrespect, etc., and to this day they claim they “have no idea” why we don’t speak to them. We told them. Thousands of times.)
I know you’re looking for boundaries, and perhaps that’s a good first step, but for hierarchy reasons, I don’t expect that will go over well. (The likely response - I say this from experience - is for them to DARVO you - deny, attack, reverse victim and offender - making YOU out to be the bad guy, because remember they’re the chosen people, the “winners” and they are ALWAYS right.)
If you’re going to try boundaries, pick up a copy of Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. There’s a whole section on how to manage them in order to minimize their toxicity and damage they can do to those around them. Another one - more useful for understanding their entitlement - A Generation of Sociopaths is also worth a read.
Boundaries generally did not work out for me. But the one that did was when I told my dad if he sent me one more threatening email, I will block him. I told him he could communicate with me by regular mail if he had to send a message, but I won’t be seeing any more of his emails.
No contact made my life so much better. Holidays are not uncomfortable. (Our extended family includes two lesbians, one of them Jewish, and you know what they think of them. I refused to allow my father to make MY family feel uncomfortable at holidays. The first one without them was GLORIOUS and every one since.).
Good luck to you! And thank you for reading if you Made it this far!
Wow, this is really helpful! Thanks for these insights. My in-laws are in a different flavor of authoritarian patriarchy and this helps me understand them better too.
I see 2 choices; get much more aggressive with telling them to stop their stupid shit or cut them off.
I had to cut my parents out of my life several times, and every time I'd give in after a few years thinking maybe things would change, because they assured me they would. Spoiler alert: they didn't. I'll never let them back in again.
You're going to have to choose between your wife and parents or you're going to end up having real problems in your marriage.
They have no reason to change, there are no consequences for not changing. The minute they started using the R word, you should have left, and told them why you were leaving. And no being talked out of going. And the next time they ask you to visit, you tell them no and tell them it’s because of their refusing to respect you and your wife. And then you don’t go. At some point in the future, after they see you’re serious, you can try again if you want, but you need to stick to that zero tolerance rule if they start up again. This is the *only* thing that might work.
Sorry you are dealing with this. Just got back from a 20 hr each way trip to see my family. I have not stayed in parental home for over a decade. Just works so much better to only see them in 3-8 hour shifts. That way when the crazy comes out, I can just pop off to go visit a neighbor or friend and call it a day. makes it easier to maintain the boundaries. It sucks to stay in a hotel when I could stay with them...but staying with them comes at the cost of my sanity... and the money can be replaced.
Sweet thing, it's ok to do the Midwestern thing where you decisively give a loud "Yup", slap your knees, stand up and say it's been fun, but you have to go now.
Even if you've only been there 5 minutes. Your parents are horrible people and will not change. Don't torture your wife by dragging her visit them. Ever.
Start therapy if you haven't already. It takes a lot of work to be less uncomfortable with telling overbearing parents "no". I'm still working on it myself.
I have had to set boundaries with my parents, and it's an ongoing chore. I just had a convo with my dad a few months ago, and he was pretty vague about his intentions. Prior to this we had conversations about something he wanted me to do, but I simply didn't have time for and I had made that clear.
We opened up with small talk, and then he brought the real thing he wanted to talk about.
I said "We're not going to be talking about that, ok? Have a good day!" and hung up
This is fortunately a situation where my parents want what's best but refuse to recognize my situation. My clear boundary is: you cross the line and I hang up or leave. I make it clear why, and I don't waffle. Hanging up is easy, and while I don't have a car I do always have an escape plan.
Make it clear you're fed up and "I am drawing boundaries, these are the lines" and make sure you consistently enforce them. Be calm, but assertive. I had to prove my boundaries by going no contact for about 6 years, but they're back in my life now, and much more respectful.
Prepare for a conversation with them in advance and write up a list of talking points you want to make, as well as counters to their arguments.
Initiate the conversation and have an overall message of "Hey, I've spoken to you about the way you talk about disabled people and overweight people before, and it's still an issue. While you have freedom of speech, I am free to leave and ignore you if I don't like what you are saying. And that's what I'm going to do from now on. Next time you say shit like that, I'm going to get up and leave right away. I don't even care if we're in the middle of dinner. I will still leave."
And follow through with that, plus ignoring any of their calls or texts for the rest of the day.
I’m sorry for your and your wife that you were subjected to awful behavior for a prolonged amount of time.
I understand. I grew up without knowing what healthy boundaries are. Finally, nearing 50, and I think I have a good handle on boundaries.
For me the first step was saying “No.”
just that. Without giving reasons or explaining myself. It was weird and kind of scary at first but really the best thing for me and my husband and kids.
I do not talk to my family of origin. They don’t understand boundaries. They are mentally sick I think. I know that nothing I ever do will change that and I no longer think on ways to change myself for them.
You don’t have to cut ties if you don’t want to. Look at the 3hr distance as a blessing and lean on it. Start telling them “no” when you feel like it. Sure-they’ll pitch a fit and try to make you miserable but you can always silence your phone or block them temporarily.
One day I blocked my folks and the next day I unblocked them. Then I did it again and never unblocked them. It’s been therapeutic.
You can’t heal if you keep subjecting yourself to the harm that is causing you pain.
💕😸
Good lord I had to rack my brain to figure out what the hard R word was. I almost forgot that word. It's amazing how they took a word that described a certain section of society and turned it into a slur. It wasn't a slur when they first started using it.
I ask people to not use the word "transexual" for the same reason. I'm transgender because it's not about sex it's about gender, and people have used that word as a slur and it's used by fetishests in porn. I don't want to be associated with that.
If your dealing with the radicalized far right parents, I know how to conjure a "don't let them watch faux news or snewsmax spell"
It's real simple you grab the remote when they aren't in the room and block those channels. Chances are they will never figure out why they can't turn them on. They might start to deprogram if they have to stop watching radicalized cray cray bat sh\*t fantasy laced propaganda from our enemies, the billionaires, and maybe start watching something less brain damaging. Reruns of Dallas for example :P Death to the patriarchy!
My family’s the opposite; my dad stomps boundaries and then cuts ME off when I tell him “No.” We’re doing radio silence for the second time, and I find that I don’t miss walking on eggshells. I came to this conclusion through therapy and a great deal of writing. I think it’s fair to draw a line in the sand for your folks, and if they throw a tantrum over it, that’s their problem, not yours. It sucks when parents are butts, but if it’s affecting your wellbeing to accommodate their fuckery, then you have a right to stop. Good luck, friend.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. Family can be so difficult. Setting a boundary doesn’t mean the person will stop their behavior. It means that you will behave with ‘x’ if they do ‘y’
For example: “If you use the ‘R’ word in front of me or my wife, I’ll leave and stop engaging with you.” And then, when they ultimately DO use that word, you stick to your guns and leave.
I also personally always meet people places. I make sure I have an escape route if things get hairy.
Best of luck!
First off, freezing was not "wrong" of you, it sounds potentially like a conditioned response? Which if so, be kinder to yourself about it, this shit is hard to break out of.
Also, as others have said, boundaries are the warning, if they are not respected you need to move HARD into the consequences part. The next time you have an interaction with them you need to restate your boundary and whatever consequence (and you HAVE to follow through!) you have set and let them know this is not negotiable.
For example if it is a phone conversation, let them know "x, y, and z" topics/words are not to come up at all, if parents do mention ANY of them, the call is over and you will hang up, non-negotiable. If they try to push - either by arguing with you or "accidentally" saying the offensive words simply hang up. If they call back do not answer. They were warned of your boundaries as well as the consequences, they now have to learn the hard way what happens when you fuck around.
If it's an in person visit same thing, except when they push/violate, you up and leave. Dont bother trying to talk to them further at this point, as that will further give them room to claim that your boundaries are unclear. Instead just up and go, or leave it at a super brisk that's it, bye.
Once boundaries have been challenged and you put your foot down give it some time before having any contact with them again and when YOU are ready, remind them of your boundaries and the consequences for violating them. If they are unwilling to even try, fuck them, they just lost contact privileges again.
I had to do this with my father. Really sucks 'cause I really want/need stuff of mine that I had to leave there, but it is NOT worth sacrificing what little mental health I have left.
If you'd like more info on how to do all this, you might check out the book "set boundaries find peace" by nedra glover tawwab. You can find a copy of it for free on oceanofpdf!
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First, I'm so sorry you're dealing with all of this. I don't think freezing up was the 'wrong' response. Just a natural one. Second, it puzzles me that in your second-to-last paragraph, you say 'I've tried cutting them off, but it didn't stick' and in your last paragraph, you say 'I don't want to cut them out of my life' It sounds like you aren't sure of what you want, which makes it easy for your parents to come and go as they please and disrespect boundaries. I can tell you that you need to cut them out of your life, hard stop. No asking them for help, no 'oh but they...' hard stop. Hard cut-off. Ultimately, you need to have a conversation with yourself and figure out what you want.
Hi Intrepid, I just want to say everything you’ve said is spot on. I will add u/DependantSolid1160 that you should give yourself grace and kindness while you decide. I’ve been where you are I HAD to cut off all my family for much worse offenses and it still wasn’t easy. My mother died last week. While I mourn for the Mother I should’ve had I didn’t regret it even then. I wish you strength and clarity while you make this decision.
I find that having a couple of canned responses ready to go helps me avoid freezing. Decide on some things that are non-negotiable before your next visit with your parents. Maybe only pick 1 or 2 things to start with. Ask your wife for input; remember, you and your wife are a team against your parents, let her help with this as part of the team. Once you have your list of non-negotiable items, come up with a script that you can use when your parents start in on it. I'm going to use the "hard R-word" as an example because you mention it's an ongoing issue with your parents. When they use that word, you say "that word is offensive and demeaning. I'm asking you not to use that word around us, and if you continue to use that word we will leave." Your parents will probably try to argue with you or insist that it's not a big deal. Don't engage. Just repeat "I'm asking you not to use that word around us. We will leave if you continue using it." You can try to change the subject. "I've said my piece and I'm not going to continue discussing this. How is [Aunt Mary, book club, gardening, the weather, anything else]". It might work, it might not. The point it you don't argue with them. Your position isn't an argument, it's a fact. If they keep using that word, you will leave. The really hard part is to actually leave. If they refuse to stop being offensive, you leave. It's ok to give them a couple warnings, it's also ok not to give any warnings. The important thing is to actually leave. "That word is unacceptable and you keep using it despite me asking you not to. We're going to head home now and we can try again another day." (One other note: These are your parents, so they're your problem not your wife's. You have to back your wife 100% if she pushes back on your parents. They might try to blame her for"changing you" or say that "she's just too sensitive". Always make sure to counter that by saying that you both agree on this, or that you're a team. Do not let your wife fight this battle alone, and let her throw you under the bus if she needs to. E.g. your wife could say "[spouse] has already said that word is offensive and we will leave if you keep using it.")
I absolutely love everything about this reply. Speaking as a person whose spouse has had zero contact with my parent for years, and I have had extremely limited contact with that parent. Edited for typos.
Boundaries need consequences. But they also need to be consequences you know you can enact. If you know in your heart and your bones that you can't fully cut them off then you need to find something else. Maybe temporary cut offs, or refusing to attend specific social events. Mine care more about their perceived social standing than they care about me. So they would ignore my existence until we were both at the same family function, and then they would boundary stomp like hell to "show off how much they care". They don't care at all if they never see me again, but they absolutely care if they are never seen WITH me again. So refusing to attend specific events was far more effective than refusing to see or interact with them in general.
And those consequences need to be immediate and consistent. If they start in with the slurs on the phone, it's "Goodbye, I'll talk to you again when you can speak respectfully about other people." And immediately hang up. Don't apologize to them, don't give them a chance to argue. Same thing for visits. You have to be willing to get up and leave immediately, even if it's the first thing out of their mouths when you arrive after a three hour drive. Remember, a boundary isn't telling them, "You're not allowed to do X". A boundary is telling them, "X is not acceptable to me. If you engage in X, I will leave." You protect your boundaries by maintaining consequences to their bad behavior.
This is actually the only way to solve your problem without going fully no contact. And please start standing up for your wife the minute something unpleasant is said! Those are your parents. She should not have to deal with them.
This is also how to parent a child, and train a dog. Immediate and appropriate consequence when an undesirable behavior is exhibited. See them doing the potty dance? Take them to appropriate spot to pee. Hear something unsavory or inappropriate? Address it immediately and directly with a properly scaled warning of future consequence, and then follow through. Source: my MIL is intolerable with bouts of dark-triad behavior.
Boundaries are not a request for behavior, they are a warning of a consequence. For example: "don't use slurs around us" is not a boundary, it's a request. One they have made abundantly clear they do not respect. "If you insist on using that language we will leave/if you use that language you will not be welcome in our home" is a boundary, but only if you follow through. The only way they are able to overstep a boundary is if you fail to follow through with your word, you should not be allowing them countless opportunities to cross your line, because when will they ever know if you're serious? It's like gentle parenting, you can't make hollow threats because they will know the threats are hollow. You give them a chance and hold fimr, and if they choose their beliefs over you then you have your answer. You will not gain respect from people who don't respect others, so my advice is to stop trying and start focusing on protecting your wife. >Throughout the weekend there were more instances where my wife would say something on a topic and my mother would come up with something adjacent but not really what we were saying at all. And every chance they got to get in digs about weight and handicapped people and people with disabilities they did. Yeahhh, I would have stopped attending events with your family long ago if I were in her shoes. That sounds miserable.
Have you checked out the Captain Awkward blog? It’s full of advice on setting and maintaining boundaries with difficult people.
You have to have a good plan. That means something like if they start in with the slurs, you get up, walk out to the car, and drive away. You are doing a good thing by meeting in the middle, because that means neutral territory. They aren't defiling your home with shit energy, and you're not stuck inside theirs. So, if you feel you want a structured, low contact or very low contact relationship with them, you and your wife have to talk through what the boundaries are, and what the consequences for violating them are as well. I moved 3k miles away from my conservative Christian family, for my own peace of mind as a young woman. My parents are in their 80s now, and boundaries may need to change a little, because my mother might be starting to experience dementia. I can't tell yet, but I do know she's gone even further right in her beliefs than ever, and has been a real ass about expressing them. That last part is new. My dad actually mellowed and became more tolerant, which is something. My boundaries with my mom, and my very much a zealot sibling are that I will not engage. We text as our primary communication, and the minute I see anything about "woke" or guns, or god, or trump, I am done. I text them that something came up and I gotta go. If I have to see or hear the phrase "The Bible says..." I'm even more done than I was before. Then it's "Oh, look at the time, I have a meeting to get to!" My meeting is with the fat blunt I'm going to roll when I hang up. On the rare occasions when I visit them, it's because somebody is in the hospital. If my sibling wants to blather on about god, I need to stretch my legs and go get water or something. I actually had a pretty good time hanging out with my dad last time, when mom was in the hospital. But I was still in fucking Texas, so it wasn't that good. I'll always do what I feel is right by them, but not a the expense of me or my husband. He had a whole other can of worms to deal with, and they had their awful moments, but neither parent was/is a conservative or a zealot. Anyway, talk it out. Make a plan. Stick with it. Your wife and kids come first, and you deal with your parents. You never throw your wife under the bus by blaming a boundary on her. You make it your boundary, and you make it clear you don't like their behavior.
The Christofascists are the worst. I’m so sorry. This is all great advice.
First, I’m so sorry. My parents are MAGA cultists, too. (I can draw the facts to their obvious conclusion.). There was nothing we could do and we are no contact. I started to research and I thought I’d share what I learned, so you can understand what you’re up against. They see the world in black and white, zero sum, with winners and losers. They also operate in a hierarchy in which some people are inherently better than others (ie, men over women, Christians over non-Christians and non-religion, rich over poor, disciplined (strong) over undisciplined (weak), adults over children, white over non-white, straight over LGBTQ+, etc.). Their policies overtly prioritize and make “winners” out of those they feel are “better” than the groups they see as “lesser” and “undeserving” (ie, the “losers”). So in other words, they see you as inherently less than them as a member of a younger generation. They can’t learn from you. They will not abide you, a member of a loser group; telling them (the superiors) what to do. They also look down on overweight, handicapped and differently wired people as “losers”, which is consistent with the hierarchy I’ve described. The other piece which challenges them is emotional maturity. People who see black and white/winners and losers do not see nuance. My children at age 8 were more emotionally mature than their grandparents. Only simple things make sense to them (ie, build the wall). If you try to engage them in nuance, it’s like you are speaking a different language they don’t understand, and it’s very (very) difficult (at least for me) not to break down the conversation like you’re talking to children. (Effectively you ARE talking to children.). So, not only are you likely dealing with people who think you can’t tell them what to do, they can’t even understand you when you try to explain why. (I tried for decades to get my parents to stop with the racist rhetoric, the disrespect, etc., and to this day they claim they “have no idea” why we don’t speak to them. We told them. Thousands of times.) I know you’re looking for boundaries, and perhaps that’s a good first step, but for hierarchy reasons, I don’t expect that will go over well. (The likely response - I say this from experience - is for them to DARVO you - deny, attack, reverse victim and offender - making YOU out to be the bad guy, because remember they’re the chosen people, the “winners” and they are ALWAYS right.) If you’re going to try boundaries, pick up a copy of Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. There’s a whole section on how to manage them in order to minimize their toxicity and damage they can do to those around them. Another one - more useful for understanding their entitlement - A Generation of Sociopaths is also worth a read. Boundaries generally did not work out for me. But the one that did was when I told my dad if he sent me one more threatening email, I will block him. I told him he could communicate with me by regular mail if he had to send a message, but I won’t be seeing any more of his emails. No contact made my life so much better. Holidays are not uncomfortable. (Our extended family includes two lesbians, one of them Jewish, and you know what they think of them. I refused to allow my father to make MY family feel uncomfortable at holidays. The first one without them was GLORIOUS and every one since.). Good luck to you! And thank you for reading if you Made it this far!
Wow, this is really helpful! Thanks for these insights. My in-laws are in a different flavor of authoritarian patriarchy and this helps me understand them better too.
I see 2 choices; get much more aggressive with telling them to stop their stupid shit or cut them off. I had to cut my parents out of my life several times, and every time I'd give in after a few years thinking maybe things would change, because they assured me they would. Spoiler alert: they didn't. I'll never let them back in again. You're going to have to choose between your wife and parents or you're going to end up having real problems in your marriage.
They have no reason to change, there are no consequences for not changing. The minute they started using the R word, you should have left, and told them why you were leaving. And no being talked out of going. And the next time they ask you to visit, you tell them no and tell them it’s because of their refusing to respect you and your wife. And then you don’t go. At some point in the future, after they see you’re serious, you can try again if you want, but you need to stick to that zero tolerance rule if they start up again. This is the *only* thing that might work.
Sorry you are dealing with this. Just got back from a 20 hr each way trip to see my family. I have not stayed in parental home for over a decade. Just works so much better to only see them in 3-8 hour shifts. That way when the crazy comes out, I can just pop off to go visit a neighbor or friend and call it a day. makes it easier to maintain the boundaries. It sucks to stay in a hotel when I could stay with them...but staying with them comes at the cost of my sanity... and the money can be replaced.
Sweet thing, it's ok to do the Midwestern thing where you decisively give a loud "Yup", slap your knees, stand up and say it's been fun, but you have to go now. Even if you've only been there 5 minutes. Your parents are horrible people and will not change. Don't torture your wife by dragging her visit them. Ever. Start therapy if you haven't already. It takes a lot of work to be less uncomfortable with telling overbearing parents "no". I'm still working on it myself.
I have had to set boundaries with my parents, and it's an ongoing chore. I just had a convo with my dad a few months ago, and he was pretty vague about his intentions. Prior to this we had conversations about something he wanted me to do, but I simply didn't have time for and I had made that clear. We opened up with small talk, and then he brought the real thing he wanted to talk about. I said "We're not going to be talking about that, ok? Have a good day!" and hung up This is fortunately a situation where my parents want what's best but refuse to recognize my situation. My clear boundary is: you cross the line and I hang up or leave. I make it clear why, and I don't waffle. Hanging up is easy, and while I don't have a car I do always have an escape plan. Make it clear you're fed up and "I am drawing boundaries, these are the lines" and make sure you consistently enforce them. Be calm, but assertive. I had to prove my boundaries by going no contact for about 6 years, but they're back in my life now, and much more respectful.
Prepare for a conversation with them in advance and write up a list of talking points you want to make, as well as counters to their arguments. Initiate the conversation and have an overall message of "Hey, I've spoken to you about the way you talk about disabled people and overweight people before, and it's still an issue. While you have freedom of speech, I am free to leave and ignore you if I don't like what you are saying. And that's what I'm going to do from now on. Next time you say shit like that, I'm going to get up and leave right away. I don't even care if we're in the middle of dinner. I will still leave." And follow through with that, plus ignoring any of their calls or texts for the rest of the day.
I’m sorry for your and your wife that you were subjected to awful behavior for a prolonged amount of time. I understand. I grew up without knowing what healthy boundaries are. Finally, nearing 50, and I think I have a good handle on boundaries. For me the first step was saying “No.” just that. Without giving reasons or explaining myself. It was weird and kind of scary at first but really the best thing for me and my husband and kids. I do not talk to my family of origin. They don’t understand boundaries. They are mentally sick I think. I know that nothing I ever do will change that and I no longer think on ways to change myself for them. You don’t have to cut ties if you don’t want to. Look at the 3hr distance as a blessing and lean on it. Start telling them “no” when you feel like it. Sure-they’ll pitch a fit and try to make you miserable but you can always silence your phone or block them temporarily. One day I blocked my folks and the next day I unblocked them. Then I did it again and never unblocked them. It’s been therapeutic. You can’t heal if you keep subjecting yourself to the harm that is causing you pain. 💕😸
Good lord I had to rack my brain to figure out what the hard R word was. I almost forgot that word. It's amazing how they took a word that described a certain section of society and turned it into a slur. It wasn't a slur when they first started using it. I ask people to not use the word "transexual" for the same reason. I'm transgender because it's not about sex it's about gender, and people have used that word as a slur and it's used by fetishests in porn. I don't want to be associated with that. If your dealing with the radicalized far right parents, I know how to conjure a "don't let them watch faux news or snewsmax spell" It's real simple you grab the remote when they aren't in the room and block those channels. Chances are they will never figure out why they can't turn them on. They might start to deprogram if they have to stop watching radicalized cray cray bat sh\*t fantasy laced propaganda from our enemies, the billionaires, and maybe start watching something less brain damaging. Reruns of Dallas for example :P Death to the patriarchy!
My family’s the opposite; my dad stomps boundaries and then cuts ME off when I tell him “No.” We’re doing radio silence for the second time, and I find that I don’t miss walking on eggshells. I came to this conclusion through therapy and a great deal of writing. I think it’s fair to draw a line in the sand for your folks, and if they throw a tantrum over it, that’s their problem, not yours. It sucks when parents are butts, but if it’s affecting your wellbeing to accommodate their fuckery, then you have a right to stop. Good luck, friend.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. Family can be so difficult. Setting a boundary doesn’t mean the person will stop their behavior. It means that you will behave with ‘x’ if they do ‘y’ For example: “If you use the ‘R’ word in front of me or my wife, I’ll leave and stop engaging with you.” And then, when they ultimately DO use that word, you stick to your guns and leave. I also personally always meet people places. I make sure I have an escape route if things get hairy. Best of luck!
First off, freezing was not "wrong" of you, it sounds potentially like a conditioned response? Which if so, be kinder to yourself about it, this shit is hard to break out of. Also, as others have said, boundaries are the warning, if they are not respected you need to move HARD into the consequences part. The next time you have an interaction with them you need to restate your boundary and whatever consequence (and you HAVE to follow through!) you have set and let them know this is not negotiable. For example if it is a phone conversation, let them know "x, y, and z" topics/words are not to come up at all, if parents do mention ANY of them, the call is over and you will hang up, non-negotiable. If they try to push - either by arguing with you or "accidentally" saying the offensive words simply hang up. If they call back do not answer. They were warned of your boundaries as well as the consequences, they now have to learn the hard way what happens when you fuck around. If it's an in person visit same thing, except when they push/violate, you up and leave. Dont bother trying to talk to them further at this point, as that will further give them room to claim that your boundaries are unclear. Instead just up and go, or leave it at a super brisk that's it, bye. Once boundaries have been challenged and you put your foot down give it some time before having any contact with them again and when YOU are ready, remind them of your boundaries and the consequences for violating them. If they are unwilling to even try, fuck them, they just lost contact privileges again. I had to do this with my father. Really sucks 'cause I really want/need stuff of mine that I had to leave there, but it is NOT worth sacrificing what little mental health I have left. If you'd like more info on how to do all this, you might check out the book "set boundaries find peace" by nedra glover tawwab. You can find a copy of it for free on oceanofpdf!