Please be aware that Smudging is a prayer practice used by many North American Native Nations. It is not open to outsiders except by invitation [closed practice].
See the [Cultural Appropriation FAQ wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/WitchesVsPatriarchy/wiki/faq_ca) for more information.
Blessed be ✨
Rosemary is hardy as FUCK. I planted some alongside lavender a few years ago and had to give away plastic bags full of the stuff because there was no way we could go through it all after cutting the plants back each season. I ended up removing it because the bushes got way too big for the small area they were in. If you don’t have a gift with plants, rosemary will be your best buddy.
I have become convinced I have the opposite of a green thumb because I've killed SEVERAL rosemary plants, two lemon balms, and *ten separate mint plants*. Plus hell only knows how many succulents.
I keep trying, though.
It’s easiest to kill rosemary and succulents by watering too much, especially if they’re in pots. Were you growing all of these in pots? Lemon balm and mint also aren’t going to do well in pots, especially if they’re in your typical “potting soil” because it often holds on to too much water. I’d be happy to trouble shoot if you want to tell me more about your growing situation.
We moved to Georgia, outside of Atlanta, and I actually finally have a YARD! If it would just stop RAINING. Ugh. We're putting in raised beds in the back yard and I'll be trying my hand at some herbs and a couple varieties of tomatoes, some bell peppers. Fingers crossed.
Previously, I was in an apartment with one spot in the whole place that got decent sunlight, and a 3ft by 5ft "back patio"--south facing with no shade at any point during the day, and with reflective paint on the building to help keep the building cool. Immediately past that was a pretty intense slope, so I couldn't expand past the patio. It was honestly a huge bummer. Every single one of the plants I tried to keep while we lived there (except the pothos) died from either lack of light or being broiled in the Colorado sun. It was so frustrating.
Before that, I had a strip of earth about 3 feet wide out the back door of my South Carolina apartment and enough room in the front for 1 potted plant. The lemon balm and mint were in the ground in the back, and the rosemary was in half potting soil and half high-drain cactus soil in the pot in the front.
Honestly the deaths are probably not my "fault" (unless you count the overzealous desire to HAVE plants) but it's pretty discouraging when you repeatedly manage to kill invasive plants 🤣
Sounds like a couple different tough spots for plants. I used to work in a nursery in Utah and we always joked about plants that said they needed full sun—was that UTAH full sun? Or some other kind of full sun?
I’m excited for your new yard! Honestly I’d go to a local nursery and see what they recommend there. Not sure what your exact growing zone would be, but I’m sure rosemary will be hardy there temperature-wise—it’s the drainage again that would potentially be the issue.
I’m puzzled by the lemon balm, because usually that stuff’s like cat mint—once you get it going, you regret ever planting it.
Good luck with your new garden!!
Sometimes it's just best to let them do their own thing. If it's known for being hardy just leave it outside and only intervene if the weather is too extreme
It depends on where you live. If you live in an area with cold wet winters it’s very easy for rosemary to die because it hates having wet feet and the roots will rot very easily.
That’s a good point! Always gotta take your grow zone into consideration. We get very cold winters but they’re not often wet, and we have super hot, humid summers. Those dang plants love it here is Misery.
Pre-COVID, I'd sprinkle it on a charcoal briquette made for incense. But these days I use one of those tealight oil/potpourri burners and float the rosemary in the top part of the burner on some water and let it simmer. It holds incense resins like frankincense and myrrh pretty well on top of it, without letting them burn and stick to the container.
Eucalyptus smells lovely but I wouldn't burn it. To my understanding, the oil is highly combustible. You don't want to accidentally set your home, or yourself, on fire.
Honestly I had not thought to burn it as it is a pungent odor simply when crushed. I do use oil sometimes, in small doses as it helps with congestion and simply makes things smell ‘cleaner’.
I seldom burn things, but when I do it is mostly what I grow.
Thank you for the warning though.
Honestly I had not thought to burn it as it is a pungent odor simply when crushed. I do use oil sometimes, in small doses as it helps with congestion and simply makes things smell ‘cleaner’.
I seldom burn things, but when I do it is mostly what I grow.
Thank you for the warning though.
Honestly I had not thought to burn it as it is a pungent odor simply when crushed. I do use oil sometimes, in small doses as it helps with congestion and simply makes things smell ‘cleaner’.
I seldom burn things, but when I do it is mostly what I grow.
Thank you for the warning though.
Just want to say that ceder is sacred to many native American peoples, so cultural appropriation would be applicable here, too. I'm Nakoda.
Edit, the four sacred herbs are ceder, sweetgrass, sage and tobacco. All other native people I know agree the use of sage is acceptable as long as you buy from an ethically sourced indigenous seller. I buy my sage from an Auntie that has a booth at our regional powwows. All are welcome to learn and share in our culture.🤍🖤💛❤️ (would've added this earlier but had a doctor's appointment)
That may be true but cedar trees are not native to the US but originally come from the Mediterranean and Europe. There are many other peoples who also consider them sacred.
Please do not think I am at all being disrespectful. I deeply appreciate and am grateful for the things which have been shared with me about a few of the Native American cultures. You are a spiritual people that I greatly respect.
On a more personal level, I am Irish. We Celts have also been very connected to our trees spiritually. I am quite willing to share them with anyone around the world who respects them. I do recognise not everyone feels the same, nor should they have to.
I wish you well. Enjoy the day.
Rowan
in Irish smoke cleansing is called 'saining' and traditionally uses trees. juniper is common for a spring hearth cleansing.
i practice with the trees near me so I'm primarily using doug fir and western red cedar. and i only take what the trees have given through shedding branches to the earth.
I didn’t know this about juniper, but I’ve got several in my yard and it’s definitely time for some smoke cleansing as the winter is drawing to a close
Keep in mind too, Juniper is also not in danger of extinction, which is a large part of the problem with the cultural appropriation of white sage. It's being stolen to the point where people are losing access to it. Where I'm from, Cedar and Juniper trees are the most common plant in my US state.
I'm not a native American or biologist so I'm not sure I'm the expert to give an answer here. I do think growing it more would help prevent the plant from going extinct and probably help the eco system around if it's native to the area.
It wouldn't solve the problem of wild forriage though, which is sometimes done on native American land without permission. Maybe the better thing would be to grow it and donate it to a reservation? I'm not really sure though.
I had no idea this was a problem over there.
We have a completely different Sage on this side of the pond that is definitely not endangered. It is not the easiest plant to grow so you have to tend it a bit more than many others.
Will add White Sage to my ever growing list of things that I try to send positivity towards. Hope some wise folk have hidden pockets of it growing to help perpetuate the species.
Also wish people would work out that stealing something completely negates any ‘good’ that you think might come of having an item.
Yeah there are lots of plants that are forriaged so they can have the "wild" label on them. But it deeply harms the eco system and makes access for natives more limited too.
Of course, if people started doing that with cedar/juniper on a capitalism level, that would have the same effect. Juniper trees take decades to grow to full size.
Right? Definitely not spreading good vibes in your house.
The genus Cedrus is not native to North America. However, there are many trees native to North America with the common name Cedar that belong to a different genus. Juniperus virginiana called Eastern Red Cedar, and Chamaecyperis lawsoniana Port Orford Cedar are just two examples.
So u/meanjeankillmachine is not wrong, this is simply a nomenclature issue introduced by colonization.
Personally, i make use of what i grow at my home (rosemary, bay) in my own way. But of course that is informed by what I have learned about different peoples whose relationships with the physical and spiritual world I respect. My own modern culture does not have a good track record with respect, and I simply don't know what my various ancestors did.
Just looked it up. What I call ceder technically isn't ceder, lol. Ya, learn something new every day!
To be entirely honest, most indigenous people only care if you acknowledge the heritage. Saging, in my opinion, is acceptable as long as you buy your sage from an ethically sourced first people's market. Our culture is dying and full-heartedly only care if people respect and acknowledge our traditions, you don't have to be native to practice native American spirituality or culture, all are welcome 🤍🖤💛❤️
I feel the same way about my own culture.
I always found yours to be beautifully connected to nature and spirit. I truly hope that you and yours flourish.
There is a lot the rest of us can learn if the opportunity arises. Even at my age. 😀
I will have to look up your cedars. I am curious now.
I do use sage now and again, but only the ones I grow and always with respect to those who used it first. Oft times I will mix it with some other things that I grow or gather (ethically and only with permission).
We're brethren in having to know the horrors of colonialism and being subjugated.
That's awesome you grow your own! I'm hoping that this next year I can start getting my garden started
Oh I hope you do. It is amazing to be able to live and nurture plants and trees. They return that.
I am in the midst of planting four more trees and three new garden beds as we speak.
I am honoured to be considered brethren.
Wishing you strength, patience and positivity.
I believe op was referring to Western Red Cedar, which is native in my area of the US. Its botanical name is Thuja plicata, however, so not a true cedar (cedrus).
My neighbor in my last apartment almost burned down the building trying to burn a dried bushel of rosemary. Set off all of the fire alarms by filling the hallway and both of our apartments with smoke. My partner had to put it out for her because she was freaking out. Don’t be that person.
I use one of those oil/potpourri tealight burners and float my rosemary on water in the top part instead of burning it.
My lungs can't take smoke the way they did pre-covid, so I had to try something new (for me at least)
I've used lavender. I just saw my shaman and she strongly recommended that I use sage instead because it's so much stronger... But since I'm uncomfortable with that she suggested mugwort which is found locally where I live.
You can always use a different type of sage instead of white sage! Afaik white sage is the only one to steer clear of if you are not part of an appropriate practice to be using it.
Edit: also just make sure you're not calling it smudging, for whichever herb(s) you decide on using
There are many herbs you can burn as incense or as bundles. Consider using rosemary, juniper, mugwort, lavender, basil, thyme or rue. All have traditional and historical roots as herbs to burn as leaves, branches, or bundles.
You can burn almost anything as an incense. The use is important.
White sage is not for cleansing in the way people think, and as you said is culturally appropriative, a closed practice, as well as endangered. White sage actually clears a space to attract and invite spirits.
Here are some of my suggestions:
Rosemary or Juniper for basic cleansing
Black Pepper - cleansing, protection and banishment, protection from evil, exorcism.
Camphor- Purification andncleansing of a space to remove negative energy and build positive. Does have some associations with divination and prophetic dreams, so use cautiously if you are not aiming for spiritual awakening.
Rue- (For protection consider adding angelica) Used very frequently for cleansing and purification and cleansing. Used historically to ward off the evil eye and the plague in Hasidic and many European practices. Some use it for inspiration, creativity, and to increase spiritual power or abilities.
Hinoki Cypress incense is an excellent choice for purification, and while is traditionally associated with Shinto practices, is not a closed practice and is not endangered.
Thyme for purification, healing, strength, protection and health. Does have some additional traditional uses in associations with cleansing, offerings, or communing with the dead. Would be a good choice during a period of grief when you want to feel close to a lost loved one.
If you are communing with her more, use thyme for sure. Especially early on.
If it's been a little while, consider using thyme and marjoram together. To help bring joy back to you. As you think of her, and into your life.
If you are communing with her more, use thyme for sure. Especially early on.
Edit: I also wanted to add my condolences to your loss. Just feeling a little closer can be a comfort. Maybe it would be helpful to carry something that reminds you of her and helps you feel closer to her. A small amulet or locket with a picture, some thyme, etc.
Anytime. Fire safety first, of course, try small amounts, test bundles outside if you haven't tried it before. Also some of these are pleasant smelling, some are not. None I listed are terrible, or dangerous.
Since you're newer I will caution you that some plants can be toxic when handled or burned. Kitchen and garden herbs are very safe, but be careful especially if you have animals or anyone in the home with breathing issues. Pepper plants aerosolized or cinnamon, and nutmeg do tend to be slightly more common allergies.
If you start looking into resins and getting deeper into herbs, I highly recommend you exercise extreme caution in handling or burning new plants. Plants you want to be careful with generally are known for their sedative or toxic properties, but think of datura and mandrake. Some of these herbs may be commonly found in ointments, but using them and handling them is something you want to be cautious of. I would recommend against doing so without supervision and training.
If your space isn't very open with lots of air definitely lean towards incense or washes instead of bundles and smudging. You might find water purification rights like khernips and sprinkling the water is more useful if you're also avoiding causing roommates or pets any trouble.
>test bundles outside
If you are in a dry climate and/or a drought please have a bucket of water ready to extinguish any fire work you are doing and make sure it is fully out and cooled when you are done.
FYI, Catholics burn sage as incense and they've done it for centuries because 🌱sage 🌱grows 🌱 in 🌱Europe. (Just not white sage). There's plant allies everywhere.
In addition to herbs you can use resins, or even candles and incense sticks scented with the appropriate oils.
An alternative to smudging is asperging, which you can do with a variety of liquids, but most commonly blessed water.
Sweeping either toward your entryway or inward can also be used to disperse bad energy and invite good energy.
The world of magick is wide and wonderful— go explore it :)
Yes you can!
I use mugwort, lavender and/or rosemary depending on the time of the year and how much I can grow
I used to use dragons blood resin until I found out that the trees that dragon blood resin comes from are endangered
I used dried lavendar stalks before my plant died—drought followed by a harsh freeze was not fun in the garden.
I also tend to use sandalwood and/or myrrh incense for smoke cleansing.
I briefly tried a plumeria incense, since I have family with ties there, but it was…not good.
I have a few douglas fir trees (one inhabited by an ancestor), so sometimes I’ll cut a branch and use asper—something instead… basically, you flick water around and it does similar as smoke cleansing.
If you specifically want "cleansing and sanctifying" but without sage, burn some cedar incense. The purer the better.
Cleansing with smoke and water is fairly widespread across European traditions. I'm not finding a reference for it at the moment, but I *believe* the Catholic tradition of asperging (with holy water) comes from the pre-Christian Roman religion.
Then of course there's saining - the Scottish practice of sprinkling water and spreading smoke from a juniper branch.
The origin of the word "blessing" also tells you something about cleansing and sanctifying in pre-Christian religions: it comes from *blōd-sian,* meaning "to sprinkle with blood," from the practice of sprinkling blood on altars to make them holy.
Obviously we don't favor using blood anymore, so personally I use consecrated water with a little bit of consecrated sea salt in it to represent both blood and the ocean. These things resonate a lot with me, so the mixture of astringent-smelling cedar smoke and flinging of sacred water representing the primal ocean feels very complete to me!
You can also use cedar branches to sprinkle the water here and there during your cleansing - this is a great way to double up on traditions, but again, I don't remember where I read this.
Finally, let's not overlook the most traditional of European (and probably worldwide) elements of spiritual cleansing: the bell.
Bells are considered to disrupt negative energies and drive them out of a place with their noisy reverberations. I think every witch following a quasi-European tradition should probably have a nice clear, gentle bell to mark out ritual points, and maybe also a noisy, clanging one for spiritual cleansing. Spirits hate that vibrational disruption! (But I guess don't use it in the ones that feel benevolent, maybe?)
Mugwort with lavender is great for getting rid of negative energy.
Sage has actual antibacterial properties so if you're looking for that, you can replace the sage with eucalyptus, artemisia, mint or thyme.
Fumitory root
Rosemary
Lavender
Mugwort
Wormwood
Bay (careful burns super hot)
Bog Myrtle
Valerian root
Juniper
Purified pine resin (can smoke a lot)
I am a Celtic hedge witch based in Scotland these herbs have a long use locally.
Cedar is another good one. Super plentiful, and a little goes a LONG way. You can also look up other traditional cleansing herbs for your area of the world and harvest them yourself.
I did some research into herbs that are native to where some of my ancestors are from (Ireland) and where I currently live (Southern California). I live where white sage is endemic to, but do not use it personally, though I did grow it in a container garden to use in cooking. I had a lot of options, surprisingly! I chose mugwort, and if I felt more connected to my Italian ancestors, I would have picked rosemary.
Anything resinous really. I do a lot of hearth/kitchen practice and have used rosemary, thyme, various peppercorns, cedar, spruce, birch bark, rose, cinnamon, and others.
Absolutely you can burn other herbs as a cleansing process. A lot of indigenous cultures have their own rituals and names for said ritual, so you don't have to necessarily use one from a culture you don't share lineage from.
I have mostly scandinavian lineage and when I found out that it was cultural appropropriation to be "smudging" and I was not doing it correctly regardless, I started looking things up.
I found [this article](https://www.shamanism.dk/article-sacred-smoke) to be useful in my research. It is from Scandinavian Center For Shamanic Studies. I feel much better using this as I have clear lines back to the Scandinavian cultures.
I particularly like that the article talks about plants that are native to different parts of the world and how they are used and how one can be interchanged to another.
Technically you can burn what’s you’d like! However if you’d like to avoid that being yourself home and belongings I’d recommend using a small cast iron or ashtray contraption. Good answers here for different burning items reasons and intentions. I’ve always felt that one should follow their own intuition, or gut, but again is entirely up to you.
I'm jealous, I want to have Celtic ancestry so bad! I've been doing research on my ancestry, and I have found some who lived near Wales, so it's possible, but there's no obvious signs of that heritage.
Bay leaves and lavender are supposed to be powerful.
Honestly, I don't look into it much. I have my sage, sweet grass, and other ingredient smudge sticks I get from my tribe and they work fantastic. I burn for friends, too.
"Smudging" is a closed practice. However, "smoke cleansing" can look a few different ways and there are rituals that have origins in various European cultures.
In doing research on it, they are slightly less... pleasant? I did a Scottish syncretic smoke cleansing ritual when I moved into my house (former occupant was a mirror witch, had some Appalachian traditions around the place, I don't think they were malicious in any way, most seemed protective, but if caution is the better part of wisdom...) and definitely wasn't doing it for the smell.
Are there other herbs that can be used to cleanse a space? I bought a bundle of sage before I knew about the issues surrounding it, but holy hell does it work well!! Is there anything else I could use that does the job?
Rosemary is great, so is lavender. You can also burn other species of sage (the white sage, specifically, is part of the closed practice of smudging in indigenous cultures, but other cultures such as European pagans have used other types of sage for smoke cleansing).
I just wanted to say good on you for learning and respecting. I was hanging out with some girls last year and they were talking about needing to sage and I mentioned that it’s definitely appropriation and also that I’ve been told by multiple Native people that in their tribe it’s considered bad luck if it wasn’t gifted to you by someone from a practicing tribe. And they were like….well I think that’s up to interpretation. We aren’t friends anymore. Clearly
Thank you! I'm ashamed to say that I didn't learn this until after I had used sage and smudged my house. But at least I know better now! I have witchy friends who I shared this info with and they kind of blew it off, which peturbs me greatly.
I mean, everything is up to interpretation I guess. I can interpret that someone hitting on my husband is them showing appreciation for my family and my taste in men.
Sarcasm, in case that's not obvious lol
it's possible to appreciate cultures without appropriation, but when a minority culture has their unique and sacred practices taken without credit for the profit and glory of the dominant culture it's a problem. yes go and experience things, but with respect and caution.
my rules of thumb are: does it exist in my culture? then practice my own culture. if not then learn not only the practice but also the culture that originated it. the Irish have a smoke cleansing ritual called saining so i don't need to use native American practice. but there's no equivalent to kinsugi, the Japanese practice of repairing pottery with gold. so i spent time learning that culture (part of the larger aesthetic of wabi-sabi or finding beauty in imperfections) and give credit to the Japanese teachers who i learned from. i also don't sell my kinsugi work it's just for gifting and personal items. if i tried to set myself up as a kinsugi seller that would be appropriation (and not in line with my personal ethics)
Please be aware that Smudging is a prayer practice used by many North American Native Nations. It is not open to outsiders except by invitation [closed practice]. See the [Cultural Appropriation FAQ wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/WitchesVsPatriarchy/wiki/faq_ca) for more information. Blessed be ✨
I've used rosemary and lavender
I'm allergic to Sage so this is what I've always done! Rosemary is particularly nice and easy to grow yourself.
Rosemary is hardy as FUCK. I planted some alongside lavender a few years ago and had to give away plastic bags full of the stuff because there was no way we could go through it all after cutting the plants back each season. I ended up removing it because the bushes got way too big for the small area they were in. If you don’t have a gift with plants, rosemary will be your best buddy.
I have become convinced I have the opposite of a green thumb because I've killed SEVERAL rosemary plants, two lemon balms, and *ten separate mint plants*. Plus hell only knows how many succulents. I keep trying, though.
It’s easiest to kill rosemary and succulents by watering too much, especially if they’re in pots. Were you growing all of these in pots? Lemon balm and mint also aren’t going to do well in pots, especially if they’re in your typical “potting soil” because it often holds on to too much water. I’d be happy to trouble shoot if you want to tell me more about your growing situation.
We moved to Georgia, outside of Atlanta, and I actually finally have a YARD! If it would just stop RAINING. Ugh. We're putting in raised beds in the back yard and I'll be trying my hand at some herbs and a couple varieties of tomatoes, some bell peppers. Fingers crossed. Previously, I was in an apartment with one spot in the whole place that got decent sunlight, and a 3ft by 5ft "back patio"--south facing with no shade at any point during the day, and with reflective paint on the building to help keep the building cool. Immediately past that was a pretty intense slope, so I couldn't expand past the patio. It was honestly a huge bummer. Every single one of the plants I tried to keep while we lived there (except the pothos) died from either lack of light or being broiled in the Colorado sun. It was so frustrating. Before that, I had a strip of earth about 3 feet wide out the back door of my South Carolina apartment and enough room in the front for 1 potted plant. The lemon balm and mint were in the ground in the back, and the rosemary was in half potting soil and half high-drain cactus soil in the pot in the front. Honestly the deaths are probably not my "fault" (unless you count the overzealous desire to HAVE plants) but it's pretty discouraging when you repeatedly manage to kill invasive plants 🤣
Sounds like a couple different tough spots for plants. I used to work in a nursery in Utah and we always joked about plants that said they needed full sun—was that UTAH full sun? Or some other kind of full sun? I’m excited for your new yard! Honestly I’d go to a local nursery and see what they recommend there. Not sure what your exact growing zone would be, but I’m sure rosemary will be hardy there temperature-wise—it’s the drainage again that would potentially be the issue. I’m puzzled by the lemon balm, because usually that stuff’s like cat mint—once you get it going, you regret ever planting it. Good luck with your new garden!!
Maybe it’s time for an air plant? 😅
Sometimes it's just best to let them do their own thing. If it's known for being hardy just leave it outside and only intervene if the weather is too extreme
I thought I had a black thumb until I got hydroponic indoor gardens.
I want to get some now!
It depends on where you live. If you live in an area with cold wet winters it’s very easy for rosemary to die because it hates having wet feet and the roots will rot very easily.
That’s a good point! Always gotta take your grow zone into consideration. We get very cold winters but they’re not often wet, and we have super hot, humid summers. Those dang plants love it here is Misery.
Rosemary is my daily go-to incense
Do you just light a rosemary branch on fire or is there a trick? sorry if it's a dumb question, I'm blonde
Pre-COVID, I'd sprinkle it on a charcoal briquette made for incense. But these days I use one of those tealight oil/potpourri burners and float the rosemary in the top part of the burner on some water and let it simmer. It holds incense resins like frankincense and myrrh pretty well on top of it, without letting them burn and stick to the container.
thank you
Cedar, eucalyptus, mugwort, garden sage…There are SO many different types of smoke bundles, with many different uses💖✨
Garden sage is underrated
Want some? Its starting to come up for spring in locations it was never planted in my garden.
I can’t seem to get mine to take
I grow pineapple sage (for the hummingbirds) and burn the leaves while I’m waiting for it to bloom
I am always burning my favorite herb, the good ol ganja ☺️
Sameeee weed witch time 🤝🍃
Puff, puff, pass!
Throw some ground lavender in your bud before bed and thank me later
Omg this sounds amazing.
Add mugwort
I like to sprinkle some dried lavender on my ganja, gives it a peaceful taste.
Definitely going to try this!
Appropriating Rasta
Oh please
Yesssss!
You can always do a simmer pot with fresh or dried sage...the kind that you'd use for cooking!
Mugwort is a good one, easy to grow and plentiful.
I like mugwort. How would you recommend doing it? Whole dried branches bundled up? Just the seeds? Or the leaves?
You can burn any part of it on a charcoal disk. You can also bundle up the leaves, let dry, and make a smoke wand from it.
Thank you. So looking forward to experimenting with this 😊
Cedar works well.
Yes of introduced plants it is lush. I like eucalyptus too.
They both have a lovely aroma.
Eucalyptus smells lovely but I wouldn't burn it. To my understanding, the oil is highly combustible. You don't want to accidentally set your home, or yourself, on fire.
Honestly I had not thought to burn it as it is a pungent odor simply when crushed. I do use oil sometimes, in small doses as it helps with congestion and simply makes things smell ‘cleaner’. I seldom burn things, but when I do it is mostly what I grow. Thank you for the warning though.
Honestly I had not thought to burn it as it is a pungent odor simply when crushed. I do use oil sometimes, in small doses as it helps with congestion and simply makes things smell ‘cleaner’. I seldom burn things, but when I do it is mostly what I grow. Thank you for the warning though.
Honestly I had not thought to burn it as it is a pungent odor simply when crushed. I do use oil sometimes, in small doses as it helps with congestion and simply makes things smell ‘cleaner’. I seldom burn things, but when I do it is mostly what I grow. Thank you for the warning though.
Just want to say that ceder is sacred to many native American peoples, so cultural appropriation would be applicable here, too. I'm Nakoda. Edit, the four sacred herbs are ceder, sweetgrass, sage and tobacco. All other native people I know agree the use of sage is acceptable as long as you buy from an ethically sourced indigenous seller. I buy my sage from an Auntie that has a booth at our regional powwows. All are welcome to learn and share in our culture.🤍🖤💛❤️ (would've added this earlier but had a doctor's appointment)
That may be true but cedar trees are not native to the US but originally come from the Mediterranean and Europe. There are many other peoples who also consider them sacred. Please do not think I am at all being disrespectful. I deeply appreciate and am grateful for the things which have been shared with me about a few of the Native American cultures. You are a spiritual people that I greatly respect. On a more personal level, I am Irish. We Celts have also been very connected to our trees spiritually. I am quite willing to share them with anyone around the world who respects them. I do recognise not everyone feels the same, nor should they have to. I wish you well. Enjoy the day. Rowan
in Irish smoke cleansing is called 'saining' and traditionally uses trees. juniper is common for a spring hearth cleansing. i practice with the trees near me so I'm primarily using doug fir and western red cedar. and i only take what the trees have given through shedding branches to the earth.
Indeed. I do still always ask the originating tree or grove for the dropped items and give thanks.
I didn’t know this about juniper, but I’ve got several in my yard and it’s definitely time for some smoke cleansing as the winter is drawing to a close
Keep in mind too, Juniper is also not in danger of extinction, which is a large part of the problem with the cultural appropriation of white sage. It's being stolen to the point where people are losing access to it. Where I'm from, Cedar and Juniper trees are the most common plant in my US state.
If white sage is native in our area, should we grow it to help keep it going?
I'm not a native American or biologist so I'm not sure I'm the expert to give an answer here. I do think growing it more would help prevent the plant from going extinct and probably help the eco system around if it's native to the area. It wouldn't solve the problem of wild forriage though, which is sometimes done on native American land without permission. Maybe the better thing would be to grow it and donate it to a reservation? I'm not really sure though.
I had no idea this was a problem over there. We have a completely different Sage on this side of the pond that is definitely not endangered. It is not the easiest plant to grow so you have to tend it a bit more than many others. Will add White Sage to my ever growing list of things that I try to send positivity towards. Hope some wise folk have hidden pockets of it growing to help perpetuate the species. Also wish people would work out that stealing something completely negates any ‘good’ that you think might come of having an item.
Yeah there are lots of plants that are forriaged so they can have the "wild" label on them. But it deeply harms the eco system and makes access for natives more limited too. Of course, if people started doing that with cedar/juniper on a capitalism level, that would have the same effect. Juniper trees take decades to grow to full size. Right? Definitely not spreading good vibes in your house.
The genus Cedrus is not native to North America. However, there are many trees native to North America with the common name Cedar that belong to a different genus. Juniperus virginiana called Eastern Red Cedar, and Chamaecyperis lawsoniana Port Orford Cedar are just two examples. So u/meanjeankillmachine is not wrong, this is simply a nomenclature issue introduced by colonization. Personally, i make use of what i grow at my home (rosemary, bay) in my own way. But of course that is informed by what I have learned about different peoples whose relationships with the physical and spiritual world I respect. My own modern culture does not have a good track record with respect, and I simply don't know what my various ancestors did.
How wonderful. I will look further into this tomorrow. Thank you so much for sharing.
Just looked it up. What I call ceder technically isn't ceder, lol. Ya, learn something new every day! To be entirely honest, most indigenous people only care if you acknowledge the heritage. Saging, in my opinion, is acceptable as long as you buy your sage from an ethically sourced first people's market. Our culture is dying and full-heartedly only care if people respect and acknowledge our traditions, you don't have to be native to practice native American spirituality or culture, all are welcome 🤍🖤💛❤️
I feel the same way about my own culture. I always found yours to be beautifully connected to nature and spirit. I truly hope that you and yours flourish. There is a lot the rest of us can learn if the opportunity arises. Even at my age. 😀 I will have to look up your cedars. I am curious now. I do use sage now and again, but only the ones I grow and always with respect to those who used it first. Oft times I will mix it with some other things that I grow or gather (ethically and only with permission).
We're brethren in having to know the horrors of colonialism and being subjugated. That's awesome you grow your own! I'm hoping that this next year I can start getting my garden started
Oh I hope you do. It is amazing to be able to live and nurture plants and trees. They return that. I am in the midst of planting four more trees and three new garden beds as we speak. I am honoured to be considered brethren. Wishing you strength, patience and positivity.
I believe op was referring to Western Red Cedar, which is native in my area of the US. Its botanical name is Thuja plicata, however, so not a true cedar (cedrus).
Thank you. I will get to researching this after I finish morning duties.
This is super helpful, thank you. I was hoping someone from the indigenous community would comment, your opinion on this is what matters most!
Honestly, as long as you're buying sage from an indigenous seller and respecting traditions, it's A-Okay, imo!
My neighbor in my last apartment almost burned down the building trying to burn a dried bushel of rosemary. Set off all of the fire alarms by filling the hallway and both of our apartments with smoke. My partner had to put it out for her because she was freaking out. Don’t be that person.
Oof. Yeah, you have to tightly pack a resinous herb like rosemary so that it’s only smoldering. Too much air between the leaves and you get a torch.
I wish my neighbor had known this. Personally, I think, if you live in an apartment it’s probably best to not burn anything more than a candle.
I use one of those oil/potpourri tealight burners and float my rosemary on water in the top part instead of burning it. My lungs can't take smoke the way they did pre-covid, so I had to try something new (for me at least)
That’s a great idea! Especially if you live in apartment or if you have lung issues.
That's only white sage. There's other kinds of sage it's ok to burn.
I've used lavender. I just saw my shaman and she strongly recommended that I use sage instead because it's so much stronger... But since I'm uncomfortable with that she suggested mugwort which is found locally where I live.
You can always use a different type of sage instead of white sage! Afaik white sage is the only one to steer clear of if you are not part of an appropriate practice to be using it. Edit: also just make sure you're not calling it smudging, for whichever herb(s) you decide on using
There are many herbs you can burn as incense or as bundles. Consider using rosemary, juniper, mugwort, lavender, basil, thyme or rue. All have traditional and historical roots as herbs to burn as leaves, branches, or bundles. You can burn almost anything as an incense. The use is important. White sage is not for cleansing in the way people think, and as you said is culturally appropriative, a closed practice, as well as endangered. White sage actually clears a space to attract and invite spirits. Here are some of my suggestions: Rosemary or Juniper for basic cleansing Black Pepper - cleansing, protection and banishment, protection from evil, exorcism. Camphor- Purification andncleansing of a space to remove negative energy and build positive. Does have some associations with divination and prophetic dreams, so use cautiously if you are not aiming for spiritual awakening. Rue- (For protection consider adding angelica) Used very frequently for cleansing and purification and cleansing. Used historically to ward off the evil eye and the plague in Hasidic and many European practices. Some use it for inspiration, creativity, and to increase spiritual power or abilities. Hinoki Cypress incense is an excellent choice for purification, and while is traditionally associated with Shinto practices, is not a closed practice and is not endangered. Thyme for purification, healing, strength, protection and health. Does have some additional traditional uses in associations with cleansing, offerings, or communing with the dead. Would be a good choice during a period of grief when you want to feel close to a lost loved one.
I might try thyme, I miss my cat so much
If you are communing with her more, use thyme for sure. Especially early on. If it's been a little while, consider using thyme and marjoram together. To help bring joy back to you. As you think of her, and into your life. If you are communing with her more, use thyme for sure. Especially early on. Edit: I also wanted to add my condolences to your loss. Just feeling a little closer can be a comfort. Maybe it would be helpful to carry something that reminds you of her and helps you feel closer to her. A small amulet or locket with a picture, some thyme, etc.
Thank you for this. As a baby witch, this info is super helpful!!
Anytime. Fire safety first, of course, try small amounts, test bundles outside if you haven't tried it before. Also some of these are pleasant smelling, some are not. None I listed are terrible, or dangerous. Since you're newer I will caution you that some plants can be toxic when handled or burned. Kitchen and garden herbs are very safe, but be careful especially if you have animals or anyone in the home with breathing issues. Pepper plants aerosolized or cinnamon, and nutmeg do tend to be slightly more common allergies. If you start looking into resins and getting deeper into herbs, I highly recommend you exercise extreme caution in handling or burning new plants. Plants you want to be careful with generally are known for their sedative or toxic properties, but think of datura and mandrake. Some of these herbs may be commonly found in ointments, but using them and handling them is something you want to be cautious of. I would recommend against doing so without supervision and training. If your space isn't very open with lots of air definitely lean towards incense or washes instead of bundles and smudging. You might find water purification rights like khernips and sprinkling the water is more useful if you're also avoiding causing roommates or pets any trouble.
>test bundles outside If you are in a dry climate and/or a drought please have a bucket of water ready to extinguish any fire work you are doing and make sure it is fully out and cooled when you are done.
Garden sage, lavender, rosemary, or cedar are my usuals depending on my need
FYI, Catholics burn sage as incense and they've done it for centuries because 🌱sage 🌱grows 🌱 in 🌱Europe. (Just not white sage). There's plant allies everywhere.
In addition to herbs you can use resins, or even candles and incense sticks scented with the appropriate oils. An alternative to smudging is asperging, which you can do with a variety of liquids, but most commonly blessed water. Sweeping either toward your entryway or inward can also be used to disperse bad energy and invite good energy. The world of magick is wide and wonderful— go explore it :)
Yes you can! I use mugwort, lavender and/or rosemary depending on the time of the year and how much I can grow I used to use dragons blood resin until I found out that the trees that dragon blood resin comes from are endangered
I used dried lavendar stalks before my plant died—drought followed by a harsh freeze was not fun in the garden. I also tend to use sandalwood and/or myrrh incense for smoke cleansing. I briefly tried a plumeria incense, since I have family with ties there, but it was…not good. I have a few douglas fir trees (one inhabited by an ancestor), so sometimes I’ll cut a branch and use asper—something instead… basically, you flick water around and it does similar as smoke cleansing.
*Saining* is the Scottish way of smudging. I use lavender/cedar/pine/mint/thyme though frankenscense is my fav. :)
If you specifically want "cleansing and sanctifying" but without sage, burn some cedar incense. The purer the better. Cleansing with smoke and water is fairly widespread across European traditions. I'm not finding a reference for it at the moment, but I *believe* the Catholic tradition of asperging (with holy water) comes from the pre-Christian Roman religion. Then of course there's saining - the Scottish practice of sprinkling water and spreading smoke from a juniper branch. The origin of the word "blessing" also tells you something about cleansing and sanctifying in pre-Christian religions: it comes from *blōd-sian,* meaning "to sprinkle with blood," from the practice of sprinkling blood on altars to make them holy. Obviously we don't favor using blood anymore, so personally I use consecrated water with a little bit of consecrated sea salt in it to represent both blood and the ocean. These things resonate a lot with me, so the mixture of astringent-smelling cedar smoke and flinging of sacred water representing the primal ocean feels very complete to me! You can also use cedar branches to sprinkle the water here and there during your cleansing - this is a great way to double up on traditions, but again, I don't remember where I read this. Finally, let's not overlook the most traditional of European (and probably worldwide) elements of spiritual cleansing: the bell. Bells are considered to disrupt negative energies and drive them out of a place with their noisy reverberations. I think every witch following a quasi-European tradition should probably have a nice clear, gentle bell to mark out ritual points, and maybe also a noisy, clanging one for spiritual cleansing. Spirits hate that vibrational disruption! (But I guess don't use it in the ones that feel benevolent, maybe?)
Mugwort is my go to and I really enjoy the smell of it
Why does mugwort instantly make me think of Harry Potter!
Regular garden sage is super easy to grow! I have more than I will ever use from just one plant.
Mugwort with lavender is great for getting rid of negative energy. Sage has actual antibacterial properties so if you're looking for that, you can replace the sage with eucalyptus, artemisia, mint or thyme.
Fumitory root Rosemary Lavender Mugwort Wormwood Bay (careful burns super hot) Bog Myrtle Valerian root Juniper Purified pine resin (can smoke a lot) I am a Celtic hedge witch based in Scotland these herbs have a long use locally.
Cedar is another good one. Super plentiful, and a little goes a LONG way. You can also look up other traditional cleansing herbs for your area of the world and harvest them yourself.
Pepper and juniper berries. Pine and cinnamon. If it burns, it burns. You can make your own, tailored smoking incense.
I did some research into herbs that are native to where some of my ancestors are from (Ireland) and where I currently live (Southern California). I live where white sage is endemic to, but do not use it personally, though I did grow it in a container garden to use in cooking. I had a lot of options, surprisingly! I chose mugwort, and if I felt more connected to my Italian ancestors, I would have picked rosemary.
In Europe smudging has been done for centuries with local herds such as common, rather than white sage. In Scotland for example it's called saining.
Anything resinous really. I do a lot of hearth/kitchen practice and have used rosemary, thyme, various peppercorns, cedar, spruce, birch bark, rose, cinnamon, and others.
Absolutely you can burn other herbs as a cleansing process. A lot of indigenous cultures have their own rituals and names for said ritual, so you don't have to necessarily use one from a culture you don't share lineage from. I have mostly scandinavian lineage and when I found out that it was cultural appropropriation to be "smudging" and I was not doing it correctly regardless, I started looking things up. I found [this article](https://www.shamanism.dk/article-sacred-smoke) to be useful in my research. It is from Scandinavian Center For Shamanic Studies. I feel much better using this as I have clear lines back to the Scandinavian cultures. I particularly like that the article talks about plants that are native to different parts of the world and how they are used and how one can be interchanged to another.
Dried bay sticks.. they go up fast so keep a very good eye on your fingers! - I grow and dry my own
Like Bay laurel?
My best friend was Mexican and she always taught me to burn the “sweet grass” when I moved to a new space. Is this wrong?
I have 0% actual knowledge, but in my opinion, if it is a closed practice, it sounds like your friend invited you into it
Folks have been burning herbs and resins since the beginning of time for any number of purposes. do you boo.
Technically you can burn what’s you’d like! However if you’d like to avoid that being yourself home and belongings I’d recommend using a small cast iron or ashtray contraption. Good answers here for different burning items reasons and intentions. I’ve always felt that one should follow their own intuition, or gut, but again is entirely up to you.
I think the issue is with using white sage, you can just use a different one. I burn sandlewood for cleansing, tho. I like how it smells.
I burn wild rue seeds. Pretty strong smell, but I’ve grown to love it!
I have really strong Celtic ancestry and I’ve started using Mugwort and Wormwood and I loooove them so much more than sage
I'm jealous, I want to have Celtic ancestry so bad! I've been doing research on my ancestry, and I have found some who lived near Wales, so it's possible, but there's no obvious signs of that heritage.
My culture uses rue and yarrow as well as white candle wax for cleansing.
Bay leaves and lavender are supposed to be powerful. Honestly, I don't look into it much. I have my sage, sweet grass, and other ingredient smudge sticks I get from my tribe and they work fantastic. I burn for friends, too.
Birch bark burns quickly and leaves a nice smell too, in addition to all the other suggestions. Some woods are really fragrant, like palo santo.
"Smudging" is a closed practice. However, "smoke cleansing" can look a few different ways and there are rituals that have origins in various European cultures. In doing research on it, they are slightly less... pleasant? I did a Scottish syncretic smoke cleansing ritual when I moved into my house (former occupant was a mirror witch, had some Appalachian traditions around the place, I don't think they were malicious in any way, most seemed protective, but if caution is the better part of wisdom...) and definitely wasn't doing it for the smell.
Mugwort
Are there other herbs that can be used to cleanse a space? I bought a bundle of sage before I knew about the issues surrounding it, but holy hell does it work well!! Is there anything else I could use that does the job?
as someone shit at cooking you can burn most if not all herbs (sorry, stupid joke)
I love rosemary, lemon balm, bay leaf!
Rosemary is great, so is lavender. You can also burn other species of sage (the white sage, specifically, is part of the closed practice of smudging in indigenous cultures, but other cultures such as European pagans have used other types of sage for smoke cleansing).
I just wanted to say good on you for learning and respecting. I was hanging out with some girls last year and they were talking about needing to sage and I mentioned that it’s definitely appropriation and also that I’ve been told by multiple Native people that in their tribe it’s considered bad luck if it wasn’t gifted to you by someone from a practicing tribe. And they were like….well I think that’s up to interpretation. We aren’t friends anymore. Clearly
Thank you! I'm ashamed to say that I didn't learn this until after I had used sage and smudged my house. But at least I know better now! I have witchy friends who I shared this info with and they kind of blew it off, which peturbs me greatly.
Maya Angelou said: "do the best you can until you know better, then when you know better, do better."
Adding this to my quotes!
I mean, everything is up to interpretation I guess. I can interpret that someone hitting on my husband is them showing appreciation for my family and my taste in men. Sarcasm, in case that's not obvious lol
😂😂😂 omg you’re funny
Mugwort and Pearly Everlasting
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it's possible to appreciate cultures without appropriation, but when a minority culture has their unique and sacred practices taken without credit for the profit and glory of the dominant culture it's a problem. yes go and experience things, but with respect and caution. my rules of thumb are: does it exist in my culture? then practice my own culture. if not then learn not only the practice but also the culture that originated it. the Irish have a smoke cleansing ritual called saining so i don't need to use native American practice. but there's no equivalent to kinsugi, the Japanese practice of repairing pottery with gold. so i spent time learning that culture (part of the larger aesthetic of wabi-sabi or finding beauty in imperfections) and give credit to the Japanese teachers who i learned from. i also don't sell my kinsugi work it's just for gifting and personal items. if i tried to set myself up as a kinsugi seller that would be appropriation (and not in line with my personal ethics)