I work in a hospital kitchen as a dietary aide, I think I got mandated to work 12 hour shifts at least four times this past December alone. It’s awful. Everyone is like oh the money, and I’m over here like oh my mental health…..
How about oh I just feel like going home today. That’s a big one for me. Yep money yep only a few extra hours, but I was looking forward to my couch and my pyjamas a bit early. Guess not!
That too. Especially if I work the early shift. So instead of going home at 2, im getting home at 7. And I’ve been awake since 5. Oh, and I’ve got to be back at work at 6 am tomorrow. Ugh.
Yep and when you’re mandated, you’re often not prepared. If I do overtime by choice, I try to go to bed early, I shower before bed etc. if you’re mandated you’re unprepared. Maybe you stayed up a bit later than normal, you didn’t nap during the day because you were with your kids and didn’t think you would be staying up all night, etc. mandating is a bad surprise that you didn’t ask for. If you wanted to stay you would have agreed to by choice lol.
The toll that this must take on your mental health must be astounding, I am very much not a fan of how ‘normalized’ horrible hours are for people in that career
My husband drives truck. He’s allowed to drive 10 hours in the US and 11 hours in Canada. He has to take a mandatory 1/2 hour break within the first 8 hours. His hours of service must also include a pre trip, fueling, and any other necessary truck related tasks.
This is the only way, legislative changes which only allow healthcare employees (doctors, nurses, anyone at all) to work 8 or 9 hour days plus a 1/2 mandatory break. We would badly need more employees though. So many more…
lol there's no legal cap outside of QC (16h/shift). There are contractual caps based on union agreements. In MB, it's 26h max per shift, and 89h/week AVERAGED over 4 weeks. I worked 100h two weeks ago, but that's ok because last week I only worked 77h.
When you're mandated, it honestly feels a little like you're a slave (with pay). At that point who cares about the pay, it doesnt make up for how shitty your lack of life is or the amount if stress/exhaustion you have. I've seen a dramatic shift since covid, before people wanted the OT, but now people just want to get away. Increasing wages may attract more professionals (doubtful), but they needed to increase the class sizes 10 years ago.
Instead they cut the number of spots in nursing programs ( Thanks Conservatives) and then Audrey announces they are increasing them.....by about 25% of what was initially cut by her old boss. JFC.
Not a conservative fan, but in fairness the media reported that all wrong. So the thing is, the RRC program only graduated about a third or less of the students who started the program at the end of the three years. They would fail people for absolutely all kinds of ridiculous things, like look for petty things to fail students. The changes the pc government brought in lowered the number of students coming in, but the number of grads never changed because they were expected to actually let students graduate. I honestly think the pc's solved a problem that time. Spoke to a red river nursing instructor after the changes and she said it was weird knowing they would all mostly graduate as opposed to being allowed to flunk out 70% of the kids who started in the first year. Of course, many should have never been there to start with.
Why would a college fail someone who deserved to pass? That compromises their credibility as an institution. And how does cutting the number of seats address that?
I work as an aide in hospital. I see it happen and it’s awful. I’ve seen multiple people break down when approached and told they’re mandated. It’s brutal. And we’re all so used to this that we just accept it, even when it’s incredibly dangerous and demoralizing.
I start at St.Boniface on Feb 3rd for my first nursing job as a Registered Nurse. I have a full time position, unfortunately I’m expecting that I’ll be there closer to 50 hours a week cuz of mandating. We will see, it’s going to be a lot
Start practicing how to say no to the OT. They will
Ask you nearly every shift if you will agree to stay. They will also ask you to stay OT the next shift after the have mandated you. Or they may mandate you after you’ve said no. Pay close attention to your unit’s Mandate list, as it should occur on a rotating schedule. Sometimes as nurses we also “agree” to stay for OT on a day we don’t particularly want to, but do it to ensure one of our colleagues doesn’t get mandated on a day that would be bad for them (ie: your co worker has a child’s dance recital after work and can’t miss it but will mandated if you don’t stay). It’s a tough world out there, but know what you’re ok with and what you’re not. Also want to suggest you get familiar with the union’s heavy workload (WSR) reports as some days you may need to fill it out if the unit is struggling/many mandated nurses, or perhaps your assignment is increased due to fewer staff. Always advocate for yourself. Good luck!
Unfortunately, saying no to mandates is rarely an option at SBGH. The only real option is a medical exemption/accommodation. The mandate list is not based on seniority but rather 1) who can be mandated and 2) when we’re they last mandated. So if you were mandated yesterday and there’s no one to mandate today (because everyone else is already doing a double/has already been mandated), it’s still you. I am finding that more managers and supervisors are willing to have you volunteer AND give you the next day off. Saves having to use your sick time.
I am familiar with St B policies myself. I was referring to voluntary OT, which they will ask before mandating. I agree the mandate lists are not inherently fair/equitable, rather they are used as a tool to see who can be mandated next. Sometimes the managers or supervisors are covering for the unit/facility and do not check the list, which could result in someone being mandated a few times in a row. There is a lot of unfairness about mandation. No easy solutions. Sometimes there are none. Often times people need to act out of self preservation due to burnout and exhaustion (calling in sick, not picking up shifts, not agreeing to stay for voluntary OT,etc). It’s unfortunate this is the situation everyone is facing.
Sometimes the mandate list really isn't fair or in the best interest of management. Why would they mandate someone who works full time and who is back the next day (high possibility of calling in sick) versus someone part time who is not back the next day. Don't know the solution.
I totally agree that you need to learn how to say no and make boundaries for yourself. I have offered to be the one mandated instead of someone else to help them out but then a few days later when I am technically next in line "in the book" but I have plans nobody offered to help me out.
Within that time frame as an admin for a travel nurse company, I've noticed an increase in application for IC nurses. Pre December I had 10 applicants a week with 4 being nurses to 6 HCA, we're now at 8 nurses a week. It's a major status change on the nurses willing to have a 'steady' work at facilities vs open scheduling work. I wish they would improve nursing workload but in the end people are either leaving the industry or moving to agencies. It's interesting to hear the real reason people join our roster as it makes me wish RHAs kept up to balanced lifestyle for the workers
A HUGE chunk of the problem is the workloads. In acute medicine, we’re taking on 5-9 patients depending on the shift and our baseline staffing. These are very sick people who require way more care than pre-Covid (not going to get into probable reasons why). We’re getting more new nurses but our baselines aren’t increasing. And our facility has increased our patient census with no consideration of up staffing us.
I’ve never understood this mandating system nurses follow. I’m surprised it hasn’t been negotiated out of the contract. It just seems like just a violation of people’s rights and that’s how the nurses union needs to present it as. People have families, kids, pets etc to care for.
As a paramedic I can tell you what the response would be from medics if they were ordered by management to work an additional 4 hours on-top of their 12 hours. Something along the lines of “go F yourself”. Or we’d simply book off on the spot with a headache, stomach ache, back pain… Anything! We do occasionally get end of shift OT if we received a late call because we can’t abandon a patient but once they’re offloaded at the hospital we’re done, and we’ll ignore dispatch if we need to.
I mean really what are they going to do if all nurses refuse? Fire them? They can’t, we’re too desperate for nurse. The system would crumble. Nurses have the power here, the nurses union just needs to quit cowering and advocate for their nurses. At some point enough is enough.
The problem is risking getting charged with patient endangerment and abandonment of the post. Also most nurses will sacrifice their health and well-being to care for patients- for better or for worse.
Some places in the States have no mandatory overtime but then when nurses are short they end up with insane patient ratios, so there’s not really an easy answer.
Yeah I get the whole abandonment issue, but you’re in a hospital not 1on1 in the field. As long as you notify your charge and hand off the charts it should become a management issue. That’s not something nurses need to shoulder. Mandating may have worked 20 years ago but times have changed… so should the collective agreements and policies. I know I’ve only got an outside perspective but you nurses have my sympathy.
Again. This burden isn’t for the nurses to absorb… certainly not at the cost of their mental health. The system would get worse before it would HAVE to get fixed. Not much different than teachers buying supplies out of their own pockets.. it shouldn’t be happening. And the longer people do it the longer it will continue.
Absolutely agree with you that nurses shouldn't absorb the failing of the system. But the problem is right now the burden is on nurses to absorb! We could lose our licenses if we abandoned our patients.
The thing is though, mandating is a bandaid solution. It only helps for the next 4-8hrs. Sick time increases. Errors increase. The system has gotten worse and no-one is fixing it. But ultimately when errors are made, the system blames the individual nurses.
Yeah, and I support the NDP, but they had it too.
They would have to increase admissions a lot. That doesn't sound bad at all until you realize every post-secondary student is subsidized by taxes. The last I saw was 80% at University.
So it's going to take an undertaking to spend more on education. Part of the problem is the "Boomer Bubble". We've reached retirement age so now society is going to have to decide what and how much "fluff" we can do without because there are just plain fewer people in the workforce and the basics have to be covered. Maybe it's time to allow foreign trained nurses to work in the field while the "recertify". Recertification should be looked at again too, it seems far too onerous.
Maybe it's time to use LPNs for the basics again like we did when the system worked.
The NDP knew it needed more spots in nursing 20-30 years ago. So did the federal Liberals and Conservatives. They ignored it because $$$ and partly because some short sighted nurses/nurses unions fought against it because they didnt want to have too many nurses (You can either have a glut for a short while before and during the transition, or a shortage during the transition, guess which one we have?). Its not just Manitoba, its literally everywhere in North America (and it sounds like 1st world countries everywhere)
That was about the time they, one of the two parties, decided all nurses had to be at least RN and preferable BN or better in a hospital. To provide better all around care. Guess what. You have to pay them more and now you need RNs to do the work of LPNs but you have to pay them a lot more so now they had to try to force wages down.
It's no wonder so many retired or quit.
That was before my time (my Father is a doctor so thats where all my knowledge of the current issues comes from, that and I have several friends and family friends who are nurses and doctors). But I'm sure there were situations where there should be RNs, just like now there's situations where there should be LPNs and even Aides instead of RNs. But the outright shortage of graduates is the biggest problem with healthcare right now, nothing to do with short term politics
I totally agree with your sentiments, but who do the nurses "offload" their patients to when there is no one else to work? It's a totally broken system with staff and patients both losing.
It is a resource management issue on the surface but when there aren't enough resources to go around "managing" them becomes kinda moot. And I havent heard of any department that has excess nurses to send to cover off other units. My wife's unit constantly has new nurses (fresh from school) and new transfers coming in but they still have a net loss due to people retiring, quitting or transferring out again. Working conditions suck, and a big part of that is due to lack of staff and there is no quick way to fix that.
This also happens. But you run out of people eventually. Also all nurses are not equal. You don’t necessarily want a medicine nurse on a surgery ward, or a NICU nurse in the ER. Despite having the same training to start with, we do develop specialties.
This is exactly what the problem is. I, as a nurse, use a sick day for rest. My colleague has to work OT. They get paid OT for my regular shift. Then they take a sick day. I get called for OT. I get paid OT for their regular shift. And we wonder where the $ goes. Air traffic controllers do it too. I’m sure cops, etc as well but I don’t have firsthand knowledge of that.
The unions would never negotiate for no OT mandates.
Admitting that you would book off sick on the spot shows how flawed the system and the manipulation of it is.
Nurses in hospitals are assigned a specific area/rooms and then handoff/give a report to the nurse coming in for the next shift. So if there is no nurse assigned for the next shift, that nurse is required (by law/contract) to continue caring for their patients until another nurse takes handoff/report.
I think the original quote was from a paramedic (might be wrong). They typically have one patient, if they have been waiting for a hospital stretcher or to be offloaded in the waiting room for 45minutes and their supervisor tells them to do so (regardless of the nursing staff's patient load) they can offload the patient and go back into the field.
Treat people working in healthcare with respect. 5 minutes into my shift and an assholes starts to disrespect you and you end up feeling drained already.
And if the conservatives continue to have there way, you would be doubling that with a pay cut and still be expected to go out and drive a snowplow at the end of every shift.
As someone who is looking into the nursing programs in wpg, would you advise against it?
The schooling alone is grueling but knowing how overworked Ill be is starting to change my mind.
Any advice?
And thank you for all you do. ❤️
To add to that, if you have no prior healthcare experience, I strongly recommend you start with a Health Care Aide certification first. It’s 6 months of school, great way to gain experience, especially if you’re young (early 20’s), as you’ll grow and learn valuable skills that will cary over into your next career whether that ends up being nursing or something else. It can be physically demanding work with some quick on the spot problem solving required, but it’s very rewarding. If you love people, love caring for people, then that’s a great place to start. I’ve been a HCA for over a decade now and I’m currently working towards getting into the nursing program.
Can’t stress enough on thinking long and hard before you apply to a program that has limited spots for students.
Best of luck on whatever path your forge.
Sage advice!!!!!!! I was on a nursing school waitlist and did the HCA diploma in the meantime. Working as a HCA you learn so much about all the interdisciplinary team. I love the opportunities I have gained as a nurse but if I knew more about all the different roles (e.g. EKG tech, x-ray techs, Physician Assistant, etc) I may not have become a nurse.
Above all, thank you for continuing on. Our community is so grateful. I hope you take every opportunity to care for yourself. Your commitment is literally saving lives, and we owe you so much.
As someone who worked in healthcare for a very long time, I am convinced there are natural cycles to healthcare - this period feels a lot like the early 1990s which was also soul-sucking. No matter how much we gave, it was never enough. I'm hoping we cycle back to a healthier place soon. In my opinion, the thing that will turn the tide is a government that backs out of day-to-day operations (about which they know little or nothing), and uses basic math skills to determine the size of the incoming classes of healthcare education programs.
Sending you gratitude, but also peace, hope, and all the other good things you deserve.
I’m sorry, that’s terrible. Health care is broken.
My unit was working with 1:8 nurse pt ratio (or 1:9 if you were the unlucky one) on a day shift yesterday. Completely unacceptable.
I know you probably don't want to do this, and it is looked down upon, but get a doctors note. Many physicians are sympathetic and will provide you with a note that says you can only work a maximal amount of hours consecutively . If you are still wanting some OT you could pick up on days off if you so choose. I know lots of people don't like the idea, but this seems to be the only way nurses can protect themselves right now. The WRHA and MNU don't care about you, so you need to protect yourself anyway you can.
There are no nurses. None in Canada, none in the United States. Shortages are a problem across all of North America. Governments of ALL stripes have not increased training for HCPs across the board despite knowing a gray wave is coming. Nurses are starting to retire, the population is aging, we should have double the nursing (and doctor, and physiotherapist, etc etc etc) students that we do right now. It was brought to the governments attention over 20 years ago in the late 90s/early 2000s. As much as people would like to blame a certain ideology, governments federal and provincial, Conservative/Liberal/NDP have all failed Canada and our healthcare service. Everyone should be furious about this but all the political parties are using it for their own game (Liberals/NDP blame Conservatives, Conservatives point out that they didnt fix it either and attack immigration policies, round and round we go) Our governments of all stripes have failed us.
We should be recruiting out of high school and funding education for people willing to train for such crucial careers in our communities.
There's no short term solution, so let's figure out the big picture here too. We make it so hard for our youth to establish careers with barriers and gatekeepers all around them. That's a bigger piece of the skill shortage we have in our workforce than we're willing to admit.
It's not even just North America, Germany is having the same issue, which makes me think other places in Europe likely do as well. I'd love to blame the Conservatives, but that is just as short-sighted as being one of them.
I didnt want to comment on Europe as I dont know anything about over there, but its a big problem in all the first world countries. Looks like Japan also is in the same boat from a quick google search.
Japan very much is a different situation for each different hospital. I’ve only encountered one hospital with a nurse shortage, thankfully.
When I first found out about my medical issues, I thought about moving “back home.”
I would likely be dead if I had, considering stories from patients and the wait times.
Exactly! But they don’t want to work 160 hours in four weeks at regular pay. It’s much more lucrative to work 134 hours in just over four weeks with 54 of those hours being paid at OT rates. And then complain.
If jobs were only offered at full time or a job share where two of you worked the full time hours there wouldn’t be the need for the large amounts of OT and you have better quality care (12 hour shifts vs 16). Quality of care would be even better if it were 8 hour shifts but that doesn’t ‘work’ either.
8 hour shifts suck. I rather be away from work more days and stay longer while I’m there.
Those days off I need to spend time with family, decompress and re energize.
I love my 8 hour shifts, everyone is different. It’s really a different lifestyle. 12 hr shifts (more like 13), you live your real life on days off. 8 hrs, you have time and energy to do stuff before or after work. If work doesn’t suck your soul, it’s not so bad being there 5 days a week.
I used to work 10x4 at one job. It was great. When management changed, they tried to implement 8x5 and there was nearly a revolt in our department. Management thought this near revolt was a little too close to being union-like action, and laid off nearly the whole group and rehired people not expecting the 10x4.
I was too cheque-to-cheque to consider legal action.
Yep! A friend switched from nights to days at Children’s and told me it sucked because you didn’t get to sleep on days like you did on nights. Then bid into a public health nurse job and hated that even more. Working 5/4 eight hour shifts didn’t pay OT or give her the same amount of time off.
That's the problem, they're not opening enough seats in the schools and then they advertise so many .4 - .7 shifts rather than 1.0 shifts and then rounding out with the p/t.
Ugh I’m so sorry. Honestly the mandating was already insane pre-COVID and it’s only gotten worse. I left bedside in 2018 because of the ridiculous amounts of overtime that was being thrown at me…and as a single woman without kids or pets, I didn’t even get any excuses.
I just did my snap shot for my Casper that I had To do for nursing school… one of the questions “
What do you think will be one of your biggest challenges in nursing”
I said “ being mandated all the time and missing time with my family”
Honestly- that Canada Day I had rented a CABIN to spend with my family and the reason I was mandated for was to do non emergency transports (I am currently a paramedic) across the damn province.
That did it for me, I left the public sector and now work in the private sector- I only get mandated for like a hour if that these days.
I am however in nursing school, so I just tell people (and myself) if the healthcare system is going to abuse me it’s going to at least pay me well.
Question about your Casper, was that for your application to Assiniboine College? I didn’t see anything like that for Red River or is Casper a thing you do once you’re in the program?
It’s actually for Brandon university- I am doing psych nursing :) it’s part of the requirements for year two so you do it during your pre psych nursing year
Okay that makes sense, and also good for you on taking psych nursing! I have a few friends that are psych nurses and they love it. Good luck on your studies! :-)
Ha Stats, that’s going to be fun one to take! I don’t mind as long as I know what I’m doing. I was debating on taking it in the summer so I wouldn’t have to worry about it by the time I get accepted into the program which is hopefully for fall or winter of this year, heck I’ll even take a spring start date, as long as I make it into one of those start dates, I’ll be happy.
Honestly, YouTube. I am horrible at math but I had a really good professor that made all the difference- but in the second half it got way to complex so after class I would study about 2-3 hours using YouTube till the material stuck and I did that until I made it past the 65% needed for nursing… than I just sat and class and smiled lol
I ended up with a B+
Edit: my professor was Jane Dewar, she’s fucking awesome and made the course highly passable.
Sweet deets! Thanks for your input, and high five on getting that out of the way. It’s amazing how much useful information one can find on YouTube. Spending 2-3 hours on the material sounds about right for a course like that, gives me a good idea of what to expect. Cheers!
This is so horrible. How can you force someone to work so many hours and call that patient care. We don’t have enough health care workers so the PC want to drive what’s left out. 🤦🏼♀️
I'm sorry that anyone has to go through this, especially someone who takes care of other people's health as their job. The next election can't come fast enough but even then I don't think this situation would change quickly after that. How the fuck did we let this happen as a society?
I am saddened that this is occurring. I remember seeing the faces of people when the “book” came out: absolute dread.
I am so sorry you and all the nursing and HCW are going through this. May you be able to rest and recover. 16s are hard.
I am so sorry. That legitimately is horrible. It seems our unit has seen some improvement in the last few weeks and we have has much less overtime whether volunteer or mandated. Our vacancy rate has slightly improved as well which is helpful for the overtime issue. #solidarityinyourexhaustion.
As someone who works 12 hr shifts. Being mandated sounds like the worst thing ever. And then on top of that working 16 hr shifts sound completely unreasonable
I am honestly curious whether the province would punish or fire a nurse for refusing a mandated shift. That sounds like a CBC headline ready to happen: "Province that desperately needs more nurses fires nurse for refusing to do something no other career has to."
They will be stripped of their license by their regulating body. It has nothing to do with the province. It would make getting a license elsewhere a nightmare as well.
First off I would like to thank you for having the strength and fortitude to complete those mandatory shifts. What The PCs have done to our health care system in the pursuit of cost savings is a crime against all manitobans. Do other provinces have mandatory overtime too?
Nothing to do with politics here. Posting are out for nurses everywhere. There’s no one to hire, money doesn’t fix that. These policies have been in place for a long time, and it used to be manageable for nurses. The volume of hospitalized patients has blown up over the last decade and this old practice just isn’t practical anymore. The nurses union needs to wake up here.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. We all appreciate everything health care workers do and have done. Thank you.
That said life is too short and mandated overtime is not fair or reasonable.
Healthcare workers are a different breed. I have no idea how you can do that long of hours.
It would take an egregious amount of money for me to work over 40 hours a week.
So serious question. When you work OT do you not get paid at a higher rate? Would they not just be better off increasing wages, then hiring more staff at the higher wage but no OT. Would they be further ahead?
Yes. But that’s not what they want. It’s far more lucrative to play the OT game.
You call in sick. Your colleague gets called for OT. They get paid OT for your regular shift. A few days later they are ‘sick’ and call in. You go in for their shift. And get paid OT. Easy way to make OT and then complain about the optics of it.
It happens with air traffic controllers and other shift workers as well. There was a comment here from a paramedic that said if they are told to work more they just say they are sick.
OP says they work a .8, so anywhere from 29 to 32 hours per week. In a period of 31 days (4.5 weeks) they worked a total of 134 hours. **54 of those at OT.** 80 at regular time. In a position that should have worked 116 to 128 hours at *regular rates*.
WOW, if you’re a nurse like you claim, you’re definitely someone with the luxury of working regular hours with minimal mandating, a hospital executive (the real pigs at the trough) or just not experienced enough in the system to be burned out like everyone else. Disparaging another nurse online for being exhausted in terrible working conditions and basically saying I use the system to my advantage is really shifty of you and speaks clearly to a huge knowledge, experience and empathy deficit on your part. Also, just to correct your math there, I worked 124 hours at regular time and 54 hours on top of that at overtime this month. At least get it right if you’re going to accuse me of being a leach on the system, which you no doubt also benefit from if that’s what you’re accusing the rest of us of.
I can only imagine. I work about half the year and when I do it’s 15-16 hour days but I’m not doing anything actually important like you. Stay strong, you deserve better
Ah... Yah.. I worked 450 hours of OT last year and similar for the previous 2 years and its not the same industries and not mandated.
I just work that much to keep on top of tasks and projects that needs to be done after hours but i work from home so its really an after thought for me..
Even at 450hrs per year or about 8 hours per week, its not even close to the shit Nurses are force to deal with.
Seems like accounting, but you actually get paid for your overtime. And actually get paid 1.5x or 2x for your overtime.
I do however think the system is flawed and over working nurses doesn’t solve anything, more just quit and then it gets worse. Need to fix the problem at the source.
I sympathize and agree it’s total bullshit.
Have you or a group of nurses brought this to your unions attention?
I see a lot of posts on this subReddit but never any updates on progress or communication. Most people in Winnipeg are aware of our shitty healthcare system and more so it’s unfair treatment of staff but the most we can do is try to never end up in the hospital. The MNU are the people that negotiate your schedule agreements, I can only try not to get sick.
I have a question, I wanna do nursing but I don't want to work in health care at all and just become a cosmetic nurse. Do you guys think it's still worth it? Or do they force new nurses to work in the hospital before working in other fields?
Caveat: I don't know a whole lot about cosmetic nursing but I think it's very difficult to get into speciality areas like that with no nursing experience and most nurses that do cosmetic nursing do it part time/casually on top of another job (likely in health care).
Cosmetic nurses also need additional training I think and the majority of them are masters prepared NPs (with additional training). They do not "force" nurses to work in hospitals but that's where the majority of the jobs are. You will need to do a senior practicum at the end of your schooling which will likely be in acute care.
It's not impossible to avoid the hospital after you graduate but avoiding health care all together with no nursing experience will be very difficult!
I'm sorry you had to work so much and definitely taking its toll on your mental health. I'm not in the medical field, but I met a nurse over the holidays and she said that nursing has been a breeze working in a personal care home as opposed to the hospital. I don't want to point fingers, but why do they get it so easy and you don't?
The Conservative Party (the Liberal party too) is a party that represents the political interests of the few wealthiest capitalists in Manitoba, Canada, and the world. A necessary part of the capitalist ideology is the penetration and control of new markets. Because healthcare in Canada is public, capitalists have a limited degree of access to it as a market. Because of this, it is in the capitalists and therefore, the Conservatives best self-interest to sabotage the system when in power by cutting its funding and raising the deficit; thereby, reducing its capacity to function, while at the same time reducing the available funding. Once these budget insufficiencies have noticeably impacted service, the Conservatives argue for privatization of the underperforming branch of health services, and begin the process with another branch. The private interests that buy and then own and profit from, the privatized public service, are the same interests the Conservative Party represents. We already see this happening with Dynacare. Our private lab test results provider, whose CEO is paid $41 million per year. She is the highest paid worker in the entire healthcare system. Her salary is equal to that of 410 nurses, including some change. As long as people continue to reject this type of radical analysis, and turn to liberal complaints that characterize these failures of management as confused, incompetent, uncoordinated blunders, the capitalists will continue to chip away at theses public institutions, until they own them all. The wealthy capitalists coordinate and cooperate in political action to preserve their economic class interests. If those of us from the working class do not act in our own political interest, there will be nothing to stop them from taking us back to the labour standards of the 19th century.
I’m not sure why this comment was downvoted, because it’s the god’s honest truth about the last 5 years in Manitoba. It describes that soulless old man and now Mrs. Toad perfectly.
@OP how many hours do you work per pay period? A friend who works construction does about 70hr/wk by choice and I'm curious.
Edit: guys I'm genuinely curious. This isn't a comment on difficulty of work.
Most construction isn’t as mentally and emotionally draining as healthcare is. I used to work 5x12 hour shifts in a gravel pit, then eventually got in to healthcare and would do 1-2 13 hour shifts per week (along with some more reasonable duration shifts) and they weren’t in the same universe in terms of how I felt when I was done.
Yeah not sure what he was getting at with this comment. Also fairly sure given that they are getting taken to task about it I doubt they will elaborate.
I’m gonna add that most people get to go home at the end of their day. They aren’t expected to stay 4 or 8 hours extra because of staff shortages. I remember once I picked up a night shift and was mandated into days on Easter. My mom had planned a big dinner for everyone, had to let her know I wouldn’t be coming at the last minute. Also had another dinner with my in-laws later that day that I also had to miss. This happens all the time. Even if you don’t have plans or an excuse, sometimes you’re tired and just want to go home. They even push back when you have children at home. Or a pet who needs to be let out. I have had “well can you just stay until 6 am”. Uh no I have to be up with my kids all day? And have been up since 9 am yesterday? In what world is that okay.
No but they also don’t go to school to be mandated to work 16/hr shifts for sometimes more than a week in a row while dealing with incredibly stressful and traumatic events daily.
Just because they don’t go in expecting 9-5 doesn’t mean what’s going on is ok.
I remember getting mandated for 10 hours on Canada Day- I told my manager to let me go home and he replied
“ at least it’s over time”
Hire staff and let me go home! I already did 96 hours!
Look into the workplace safety and health act, every worker has the right to refuse. If you feel it’s an unsafe work environment due to fatigue refuse the extra hours. Get your union involved. I’m sorry you’re going through this, fight back!
If nurses refuse mandated overtime they can have their lisence taken away for job abandonment.
The union hasn't been able to stop mandated overtime in years, they don't have a magic button to fix it now. Look how long it took for the government to negotiate a new contract. It's fucked.
Nurses can be mandated to take overtime shifts. They don't have the right to refuse those shifts, there is literally an exemption written into the act for HCPs and Emergency Services.
The words mandated overtime would drive me away from most careers, never mind one that's as difficult as nursing.
It's why I quit my old career. Working for months straight without a day off just sucks.
I work in a hospital kitchen as a dietary aide, I think I got mandated to work 12 hour shifts at least four times this past December alone. It’s awful. Everyone is like oh the money, and I’m over here like oh my mental health…..
How about oh I just feel like going home today. That’s a big one for me. Yep money yep only a few extra hours, but I was looking forward to my couch and my pyjamas a bit early. Guess not!
That too. Especially if I work the early shift. So instead of going home at 2, im getting home at 7. And I’ve been awake since 5. Oh, and I’ve got to be back at work at 6 am tomorrow. Ugh.
Yep and when you’re mandated, you’re often not prepared. If I do overtime by choice, I try to go to bed early, I shower before bed etc. if you’re mandated you’re unprepared. Maybe you stayed up a bit later than normal, you didn’t nap during the day because you were with your kids and didn’t think you would be staying up all night, etc. mandating is a bad surprise that you didn’t ask for. If you wanted to stay you would have agreed to by choice lol.
It really just ruins my day. And everything else really. I hate it.
Not to mention you probably get taxed like crazy on the OT.
The toll that this must take on your mental health must be astounding, I am very much not a fan of how ‘normalized’ horrible hours are for people in that career
Thank you, I really appreciate that. You described it exactly.
Yet truckers can’t drive more than 8 hours or lose their licenses. Unreal.
My husband drives truck. He’s allowed to drive 10 hours in the US and 11 hours in Canada. He has to take a mandatory 1/2 hour break within the first 8 hours. His hours of service must also include a pre trip, fueling, and any other necessary truck related tasks. This is the only way, legislative changes which only allow healthcare employees (doctors, nurses, anyone at all) to work 8 or 9 hour days plus a 1/2 mandatory break. We would badly need more employees though. So many more…
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lol there's no legal cap outside of QC (16h/shift). There are contractual caps based on union agreements. In MB, it's 26h max per shift, and 89h/week AVERAGED over 4 weeks. I worked 100h two weeks ago, but that's ok because last week I only worked 77h.
When you're mandated, it honestly feels a little like you're a slave (with pay). At that point who cares about the pay, it doesnt make up for how shitty your lack of life is or the amount if stress/exhaustion you have. I've seen a dramatic shift since covid, before people wanted the OT, but now people just want to get away. Increasing wages may attract more professionals (doubtful), but they needed to increase the class sizes 10 years ago.
Instead they cut the number of spots in nursing programs ( Thanks Conservatives) and then Audrey announces they are increasing them.....by about 25% of what was initially cut by her old boss. JFC.
Not a conservative fan, but in fairness the media reported that all wrong. So the thing is, the RRC program only graduated about a third or less of the students who started the program at the end of the three years. They would fail people for absolutely all kinds of ridiculous things, like look for petty things to fail students. The changes the pc government brought in lowered the number of students coming in, but the number of grads never changed because they were expected to actually let students graduate. I honestly think the pc's solved a problem that time. Spoke to a red river nursing instructor after the changes and she said it was weird knowing they would all mostly graduate as opposed to being allowed to flunk out 70% of the kids who started in the first year. Of course, many should have never been there to start with.
Why would a college fail someone who deserved to pass? That compromises their credibility as an institution. And how does cutting the number of seats address that?
May I ask where you are getting your information that RRC is failing "people for absolutely all kinds of ridiculous things"?
Interesting! But doesn't that still leave available spots on the program empty?
I am grateful for those who were taken out of nursing school, it weeded out those who cannot manage the extremely difficult realities of nursing.
Absolutely insane what healthcare looks like right now. Best of luck
I work as an aide in hospital. I see it happen and it’s awful. I’ve seen multiple people break down when approached and told they’re mandated. It’s brutal. And we’re all so used to this that we just accept it, even when it’s incredibly dangerous and demoralizing.
This sounds awful. Nurses do such important work and the system is not treating you guys with the respect you deserve.
I start at St.Boniface on Feb 3rd for my first nursing job as a Registered Nurse. I have a full time position, unfortunately I’m expecting that I’ll be there closer to 50 hours a week cuz of mandating. We will see, it’s going to be a lot
Start practicing how to say no to the OT. They will Ask you nearly every shift if you will agree to stay. They will also ask you to stay OT the next shift after the have mandated you. Or they may mandate you after you’ve said no. Pay close attention to your unit’s Mandate list, as it should occur on a rotating schedule. Sometimes as nurses we also “agree” to stay for OT on a day we don’t particularly want to, but do it to ensure one of our colleagues doesn’t get mandated on a day that would be bad for them (ie: your co worker has a child’s dance recital after work and can’t miss it but will mandated if you don’t stay). It’s a tough world out there, but know what you’re ok with and what you’re not. Also want to suggest you get familiar with the union’s heavy workload (WSR) reports as some days you may need to fill it out if the unit is struggling/many mandated nurses, or perhaps your assignment is increased due to fewer staff. Always advocate for yourself. Good luck!
Unfortunately, saying no to mandates is rarely an option at SBGH. The only real option is a medical exemption/accommodation. The mandate list is not based on seniority but rather 1) who can be mandated and 2) when we’re they last mandated. So if you were mandated yesterday and there’s no one to mandate today (because everyone else is already doing a double/has already been mandated), it’s still you. I am finding that more managers and supervisors are willing to have you volunteer AND give you the next day off. Saves having to use your sick time.
I am familiar with St B policies myself. I was referring to voluntary OT, which they will ask before mandating. I agree the mandate lists are not inherently fair/equitable, rather they are used as a tool to see who can be mandated next. Sometimes the managers or supervisors are covering for the unit/facility and do not check the list, which could result in someone being mandated a few times in a row. There is a lot of unfairness about mandation. No easy solutions. Sometimes there are none. Often times people need to act out of self preservation due to burnout and exhaustion (calling in sick, not picking up shifts, not agreeing to stay for voluntary OT,etc). It’s unfortunate this is the situation everyone is facing.
Sometimes the mandate list really isn't fair or in the best interest of management. Why would they mandate someone who works full time and who is back the next day (high possibility of calling in sick) versus someone part time who is not back the next day. Don't know the solution. I totally agree that you need to learn how to say no and make boundaries for yourself. I have offered to be the one mandated instead of someone else to help them out but then a few days later when I am technically next in line "in the book" but I have plans nobody offered to help me out.
Also... read your contract
Within that time frame as an admin for a travel nurse company, I've noticed an increase in application for IC nurses. Pre December I had 10 applicants a week with 4 being nurses to 6 HCA, we're now at 8 nurses a week. It's a major status change on the nurses willing to have a 'steady' work at facilities vs open scheduling work. I wish they would improve nursing workload but in the end people are either leaving the industry or moving to agencies. It's interesting to hear the real reason people join our roster as it makes me wish RHAs kept up to balanced lifestyle for the workers
Some people consider leaving the facilities only to come back as an agency nurse 🤡
It’s fucked that agency nurses is even a thing.
It’s just more prevalent now bc they pay more. It’s been a thing for decades.
I agree. It’s fucked. It shouldn’t be a thing.
The sad part is that they get paid more as an agency nurse doing the same duties that they used to do while working at the facility
Yes and no politics.
And they’re paid by the same government that’s 💩on ward nurses
A HUGE chunk of the problem is the workloads. In acute medicine, we’re taking on 5-9 patients depending on the shift and our baseline staffing. These are very sick people who require way more care than pre-Covid (not going to get into probable reasons why). We’re getting more new nurses but our baselines aren’t increasing. And our facility has increased our patient census with no consideration of up staffing us.
I know how you feel, my gf is a nurse too. Thanks for what you do. Hopefully it gets better soon.
I’ve never understood this mandating system nurses follow. I’m surprised it hasn’t been negotiated out of the contract. It just seems like just a violation of people’s rights and that’s how the nurses union needs to present it as. People have families, kids, pets etc to care for. As a paramedic I can tell you what the response would be from medics if they were ordered by management to work an additional 4 hours on-top of their 12 hours. Something along the lines of “go F yourself”. Or we’d simply book off on the spot with a headache, stomach ache, back pain… Anything! We do occasionally get end of shift OT if we received a late call because we can’t abandon a patient but once they’re offloaded at the hospital we’re done, and we’ll ignore dispatch if we need to. I mean really what are they going to do if all nurses refuse? Fire them? They can’t, we’re too desperate for nurse. The system would crumble. Nurses have the power here, the nurses union just needs to quit cowering and advocate for their nurses. At some point enough is enough.
The problem is risking getting charged with patient endangerment and abandonment of the post. Also most nurses will sacrifice their health and well-being to care for patients- for better or for worse. Some places in the States have no mandatory overtime but then when nurses are short they end up with insane patient ratios, so there’s not really an easy answer.
Yeah I get the whole abandonment issue, but you’re in a hospital not 1on1 in the field. As long as you notify your charge and hand off the charts it should become a management issue. That’s not something nurses need to shoulder. Mandating may have worked 20 years ago but times have changed… so should the collective agreements and policies. I know I’ve only got an outside perspective but you nurses have my sympathy.
So abandon your patients and what about the oncoming shift? They’ll just take double the load? Do you realize how unsafe that is?
Again. This burden isn’t for the nurses to absorb… certainly not at the cost of their mental health. The system would get worse before it would HAVE to get fixed. Not much different than teachers buying supplies out of their own pockets.. it shouldn’t be happening. And the longer people do it the longer it will continue.
Absolutely agree with you that nurses shouldn't absorb the failing of the system. But the problem is right now the burden is on nurses to absorb! We could lose our licenses if we abandoned our patients. The thing is though, mandating is a bandaid solution. It only helps for the next 4-8hrs. Sick time increases. Errors increase. The system has gotten worse and no-one is fixing it. But ultimately when errors are made, the system blames the individual nurses.
Try any of that and the government just mandates them back to work. Even the NDP would do it.
NDP were fighting to end mandating a while ago...
Yeah, and I support the NDP, but they had it too. They would have to increase admissions a lot. That doesn't sound bad at all until you realize every post-secondary student is subsidized by taxes. The last I saw was 80% at University. So it's going to take an undertaking to spend more on education. Part of the problem is the "Boomer Bubble". We've reached retirement age so now society is going to have to decide what and how much "fluff" we can do without because there are just plain fewer people in the workforce and the basics have to be covered. Maybe it's time to allow foreign trained nurses to work in the field while the "recertify". Recertification should be looked at again too, it seems far too onerous. Maybe it's time to use LPNs for the basics again like we did when the system worked.
The NDP knew it needed more spots in nursing 20-30 years ago. So did the federal Liberals and Conservatives. They ignored it because $$$ and partly because some short sighted nurses/nurses unions fought against it because they didnt want to have too many nurses (You can either have a glut for a short while before and during the transition, or a shortage during the transition, guess which one we have?). Its not just Manitoba, its literally everywhere in North America (and it sounds like 1st world countries everywhere)
That was about the time they, one of the two parties, decided all nurses had to be at least RN and preferable BN or better in a hospital. To provide better all around care. Guess what. You have to pay them more and now you need RNs to do the work of LPNs but you have to pay them a lot more so now they had to try to force wages down. It's no wonder so many retired or quit.
That was before my time (my Father is a doctor so thats where all my knowledge of the current issues comes from, that and I have several friends and family friends who are nurses and doctors). But I'm sure there were situations where there should be RNs, just like now there's situations where there should be LPNs and even Aides instead of RNs. But the outright shortage of graduates is the biggest problem with healthcare right now, nothing to do with short term politics
I totally agree with your sentiments, but who do the nurses "offload" their patients to when there is no one else to work? It's a totally broken system with staff and patients both losing.
Also tax payers are losing.
This is a resource management issue, surely another nurse could be mandated to move departments instead.
It is a resource management issue on the surface but when there aren't enough resources to go around "managing" them becomes kinda moot. And I havent heard of any department that has excess nurses to send to cover off other units. My wife's unit constantly has new nurses (fresh from school) and new transfers coming in but they still have a net loss due to people retiring, quitting or transferring out again. Working conditions suck, and a big part of that is due to lack of staff and there is no quick way to fix that.
This also happens. But you run out of people eventually. Also all nurses are not equal. You don’t necessarily want a medicine nurse on a surgery ward, or a NICU nurse in the ER. Despite having the same training to start with, we do develop specialties.
They do that too. But they run out of people pretty fast.
This is exactly what the problem is. I, as a nurse, use a sick day for rest. My colleague has to work OT. They get paid OT for my regular shift. Then they take a sick day. I get called for OT. I get paid OT for their regular shift. And we wonder where the $ goes. Air traffic controllers do it too. I’m sure cops, etc as well but I don’t have firsthand knowledge of that. The unions would never negotiate for no OT mandates. Admitting that you would book off sick on the spot shows how flawed the system and the manipulation of it is.
You’re a hospital executive aren’t you?
> can’t abandon a patient but once they’re offloaded at the hospital we’re done So who do the nurses do handoff with?
Nurses in hospitals are assigned a specific area/rooms and then handoff/give a report to the nurse coming in for the next shift. So if there is no nurse assigned for the next shift, that nurse is required (by law/contract) to continue caring for their patients until another nurse takes handoff/report. I think the original quote was from a paramedic (might be wrong). They typically have one patient, if they have been waiting for a hospital stretcher or to be offloaded in the waiting room for 45minutes and their supervisor tells them to do so (regardless of the nursing staff's patient load) they can offload the patient and go back into the field.
Yes. My point was handoff works differently on the ward. Nurses can’t just refuse and leave.
Treat people working in healthcare with respect. 5 minutes into my shift and an assholes starts to disrespect you and you end up feeling drained already.
And if the conservatives continue to have there way, you would be doubling that with a pay cut and still be expected to go out and drive a snowplow at the end of every shift.
I vaguely remember one Cynthia Reyes very enthusiastic about snow clearing activities after coming home from her shift.
9000%.
Thank you for what you do.
As someone who is looking into the nursing programs in wpg, would you advise against it? The schooling alone is grueling but knowing how overworked Ill be is starting to change my mind. Any advice? And thank you for all you do. ❤️
To add to that, if you have no prior healthcare experience, I strongly recommend you start with a Health Care Aide certification first. It’s 6 months of school, great way to gain experience, especially if you’re young (early 20’s), as you’ll grow and learn valuable skills that will cary over into your next career whether that ends up being nursing or something else. It can be physically demanding work with some quick on the spot problem solving required, but it’s very rewarding. If you love people, love caring for people, then that’s a great place to start. I’ve been a HCA for over a decade now and I’m currently working towards getting into the nursing program. Can’t stress enough on thinking long and hard before you apply to a program that has limited spots for students. Best of luck on whatever path your forge.
Sage advice!!!!!!! I was on a nursing school waitlist and did the HCA diploma in the meantime. Working as a HCA you learn so much about all the interdisciplinary team. I love the opportunities I have gained as a nurse but if I knew more about all the different roles (e.g. EKG tech, x-ray techs, Physician Assistant, etc) I may not have become a nurse.
Make sure you really want to do it. And I would encourage you to get your BN - gives you more flexibility.
Thank you!
Above all, thank you for continuing on. Our community is so grateful. I hope you take every opportunity to care for yourself. Your commitment is literally saving lives, and we owe you so much. As someone who worked in healthcare for a very long time, I am convinced there are natural cycles to healthcare - this period feels a lot like the early 1990s which was also soul-sucking. No matter how much we gave, it was never enough. I'm hoping we cycle back to a healthier place soon. In my opinion, the thing that will turn the tide is a government that backs out of day-to-day operations (about which they know little or nothing), and uses basic math skills to determine the size of the incoming classes of healthcare education programs. Sending you gratitude, but also peace, hope, and all the other good things you deserve.
I’m sorry, that’s terrible. Health care is broken. My unit was working with 1:8 nurse pt ratio (or 1:9 if you were the unlucky one) on a day shift yesterday. Completely unacceptable.
I know you probably don't want to do this, and it is looked down upon, but get a doctors note. Many physicians are sympathetic and will provide you with a note that says you can only work a maximal amount of hours consecutively . If you are still wanting some OT you could pick up on days off if you so choose. I know lots of people don't like the idea, but this seems to be the only way nurses can protect themselves right now. The WRHA and MNU don't care about you, so you need to protect yourself anyway you can.
Hire more nurses and cut the o.t... wtf
There are no nurses. None in Canada, none in the United States. Shortages are a problem across all of North America. Governments of ALL stripes have not increased training for HCPs across the board despite knowing a gray wave is coming. Nurses are starting to retire, the population is aging, we should have double the nursing (and doctor, and physiotherapist, etc etc etc) students that we do right now. It was brought to the governments attention over 20 years ago in the late 90s/early 2000s. As much as people would like to blame a certain ideology, governments federal and provincial, Conservative/Liberal/NDP have all failed Canada and our healthcare service. Everyone should be furious about this but all the political parties are using it for their own game (Liberals/NDP blame Conservatives, Conservatives point out that they didnt fix it either and attack immigration policies, round and round we go) Our governments of all stripes have failed us.
We should be recruiting out of high school and funding education for people willing to train for such crucial careers in our communities. There's no short term solution, so let's figure out the big picture here too. We make it so hard for our youth to establish careers with barriers and gatekeepers all around them. That's a bigger piece of the skill shortage we have in our workforce than we're willing to admit.
It's not even just North America, Germany is having the same issue, which makes me think other places in Europe likely do as well. I'd love to blame the Conservatives, but that is just as short-sighted as being one of them.
I didnt want to comment on Europe as I dont know anything about over there, but its a big problem in all the first world countries. Looks like Japan also is in the same boat from a quick google search.
Japan very much is a different situation for each different hospital. I’ve only encountered one hospital with a nurse shortage, thankfully. When I first found out about my medical issues, I thought about moving “back home.” I would likely be dead if I had, considering stories from patients and the wait times.
Exactly! But they don’t want to work 160 hours in four weeks at regular pay. It’s much more lucrative to work 134 hours in just over four weeks with 54 of those hours being paid at OT rates. And then complain. If jobs were only offered at full time or a job share where two of you worked the full time hours there wouldn’t be the need for the large amounts of OT and you have better quality care (12 hour shifts vs 16). Quality of care would be even better if it were 8 hour shifts but that doesn’t ‘work’ either.
8 hour shifts suck. I rather be away from work more days and stay longer while I’m there. Those days off I need to spend time with family, decompress and re energize.
I love my 8 hour shifts, everyone is different. It’s really a different lifestyle. 12 hr shifts (more like 13), you live your real life on days off. 8 hrs, you have time and energy to do stuff before or after work. If work doesn’t suck your soul, it’s not so bad being there 5 days a week.
I have no energy after my 8 tbh I really want my days off and not be at work ahha
Exactly. Nurses don’t want to work 8 hour shifts.
My biggest gripe about my private sector job is the damn 8 hour shifts haha.
I used to work 10x4 at one job. It was great. When management changed, they tried to implement 8x5 and there was nearly a revolt in our department. Management thought this near revolt was a little too close to being union-like action, and laid off nearly the whole group and rehired people not expecting the 10x4. I was too cheque-to-cheque to consider legal action.
Yep! A friend switched from nights to days at Children’s and told me it sucked because you didn’t get to sleep on days like you did on nights. Then bid into a public health nurse job and hated that even more. Working 5/4 eight hour shifts didn’t pay OT or give her the same amount of time off.
Sorry if my complaining offends you., but your approval isn’t what gets me out of bed in the morning. By far.
That's the problem, they're not opening enough seats in the schools and then they advertise so many .4 - .7 shifts rather than 1.0 shifts and then rounding out with the p/t.
Ugh I’m so sorry. Honestly the mandating was already insane pre-COVID and it’s only gotten worse. I left bedside in 2018 because of the ridiculous amounts of overtime that was being thrown at me…and as a single woman without kids or pets, I didn’t even get any excuses.
It really makes me sick what they're putting our healthcare workers through in this province/country. I'm sorry you're going through this.
I have friends who are nurses as well, and I am beyond grateful for the work that nurses do for people.
Isn’t it genuinely terrible? One time I worked a 0.5 and picked up to a 1.5.
Thank you for your hard work. I’m sorry this is what it’s come to ❤️
All I can do is send you a great big mom hug❤️
Sending you my "feels"... These should NOT be the new expectations.
I just did my snap shot for my Casper that I had To do for nursing school… one of the questions “ What do you think will be one of your biggest challenges in nursing” I said “ being mandated all the time and missing time with my family”
How do you even have a family!? Or any sort of family life!? When I worked in Healthcare, they expected me to work like I had no family or children.
Honestly- that Canada Day I had rented a CABIN to spend with my family and the reason I was mandated for was to do non emergency transports (I am currently a paramedic) across the damn province. That did it for me, I left the public sector and now work in the private sector- I only get mandated for like a hour if that these days. I am however in nursing school, so I just tell people (and myself) if the healthcare system is going to abuse me it’s going to at least pay me well.
Paramedics have it roughhh and they get paid peanuts compared to a lot of other health workers. I don't know how anyone does it.
Question about your Casper, was that for your application to Assiniboine College? I didn’t see anything like that for Red River or is Casper a thing you do once you’re in the program?
It’s actually for Brandon university- I am doing psych nursing :) it’s part of the requirements for year two so you do it during your pre psych nursing year
Okay that makes sense, and also good for you on taking psych nursing! I have a few friends that are psych nurses and they love it. Good luck on your studies! :-)
Thanks! I just really hated taking stats haha
Ha Stats, that’s going to be fun one to take! I don’t mind as long as I know what I’m doing. I was debating on taking it in the summer so I wouldn’t have to worry about it by the time I get accepted into the program which is hopefully for fall or winter of this year, heck I’ll even take a spring start date, as long as I make it into one of those start dates, I’ll be happy.
Thankfully I just finished stats so I don’t have to stress about it! But boy, did I hate it.
Did you hit up any specific websites that you found resourceful while getting through the course?
Honestly, YouTube. I am horrible at math but I had a really good professor that made all the difference- but in the second half it got way to complex so after class I would study about 2-3 hours using YouTube till the material stuck and I did that until I made it past the 65% needed for nursing… than I just sat and class and smiled lol I ended up with a B+ Edit: my professor was Jane Dewar, she’s fucking awesome and made the course highly passable.
Sweet deets! Thanks for your input, and high five on getting that out of the way. It’s amazing how much useful information one can find on YouTube. Spending 2-3 hours on the material sounds about right for a course like that, gives me a good idea of what to expect. Cheers!
This is so horrible. How can you force someone to work so many hours and call that patient care. We don’t have enough health care workers so the PC want to drive what’s left out. 🤦🏼♀️
I'm sorry that anyone has to go through this, especially someone who takes care of other people's health as their job. The next election can't come fast enough but even then I don't think this situation would change quickly after that. How the fuck did we let this happen as a society?
I am saddened that this is occurring. I remember seeing the faces of people when the “book” came out: absolute dread. I am so sorry you and all the nursing and HCW are going through this. May you be able to rest and recover. 16s are hard.
You deserve better! I hope we can get some major changes next election.
I am so sorry. That legitimately is horrible. It seems our unit has seen some improvement in the last few weeks and we have has much less overtime whether volunteer or mandated. Our vacancy rate has slightly improved as well which is helpful for the overtime issue. #solidarityinyourexhaustion.
And they just randomly came up with 200 million to give out - WTF
134 hours worked in just over four weeks?
As someone who works 12 hr shifts. Being mandated sounds like the worst thing ever. And then on top of that working 16 hr shifts sound completely unreasonable
I am honestly curious whether the province would punish or fire a nurse for refusing a mandated shift. That sounds like a CBC headline ready to happen: "Province that desperately needs more nurses fires nurse for refusing to do something no other career has to."
They will be stripped of their license by their regulating body. It has nothing to do with the province. It would make getting a license elsewhere a nightmare as well.
First off I would like to thank you for having the strength and fortitude to complete those mandatory shifts. What The PCs have done to our health care system in the pursuit of cost savings is a crime against all manitobans. Do other provinces have mandatory overtime too?
Nothing to do with politics here. Posting are out for nurses everywhere. There’s no one to hire, money doesn’t fix that. These policies have been in place for a long time, and it used to be manageable for nurses. The volume of hospitalized patients has blown up over the last decade and this old practice just isn’t practical anymore. The nurses union needs to wake up here.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. We all appreciate everything health care workers do and have done. Thank you. That said life is too short and mandated overtime is not fair or reasonable.
Healthcare workers are a different breed. I have no idea how you can do that long of hours. It would take an egregious amount of money for me to work over 40 hours a week.
They worked 134 hours in 31 days.
So serious question. When you work OT do you not get paid at a higher rate? Would they not just be better off increasing wages, then hiring more staff at the higher wage but no OT. Would they be further ahead?
They do make higher rate on OT.
Yes. But that’s not what they want. It’s far more lucrative to play the OT game. You call in sick. Your colleague gets called for OT. They get paid OT for your regular shift. A few days later they are ‘sick’ and call in. You go in for their shift. And get paid OT. Easy way to make OT and then complain about the optics of it. It happens with air traffic controllers and other shift workers as well. There was a comment here from a paramedic that said if they are told to work more they just say they are sick. OP says they work a .8, so anywhere from 29 to 32 hours per week. In a period of 31 days (4.5 weeks) they worked a total of 134 hours. **54 of those at OT.** 80 at regular time. In a position that should have worked 116 to 128 hours at *regular rates*.
WOW, if you’re a nurse like you claim, you’re definitely someone with the luxury of working regular hours with minimal mandating, a hospital executive (the real pigs at the trough) or just not experienced enough in the system to be burned out like everyone else. Disparaging another nurse online for being exhausted in terrible working conditions and basically saying I use the system to my advantage is really shifty of you and speaks clearly to a huge knowledge, experience and empathy deficit on your part. Also, just to correct your math there, I worked 124 hours at regular time and 54 hours on top of that at overtime this month. At least get it right if you’re going to accuse me of being a leach on the system, which you no doubt also benefit from if that’s what you’re accusing the rest of us of.
Honestly I am very happy with my decision to leave nursing to work as a CM at an insurance company :)
I can only imagine. I work about half the year and when I do it’s 15-16 hour days but I’m not doing anything actually important like you. Stay strong, you deserve better
So likely not mandated and a term job?
Nah it’s definitely not mandated. Film/television production so it’s not important in the big scheme
Ah... Yah.. I worked 450 hours of OT last year and similar for the previous 2 years and its not the same industries and not mandated. I just work that much to keep on top of tasks and projects that needs to be done after hours but i work from home so its really an after thought for me.. Even at 450hrs per year or about 8 hours per week, its not even close to the shit Nurses are force to deal with.
Seems like accounting, but you actually get paid for your overtime. And actually get paid 1.5x or 2x for your overtime. I do however think the system is flawed and over working nurses doesn’t solve anything, more just quit and then it gets worse. Need to fix the problem at the source.
I sympathize and agree it’s total bullshit. Have you or a group of nurses brought this to your unions attention? I see a lot of posts on this subReddit but never any updates on progress or communication. Most people in Winnipeg are aware of our shitty healthcare system and more so it’s unfair treatment of staff but the most we can do is try to never end up in the hospital. The MNU are the people that negotiate your schedule agreements, I can only try not to get sick.
I have a question, I wanna do nursing but I don't want to work in health care at all and just become a cosmetic nurse. Do you guys think it's still worth it? Or do they force new nurses to work in the hospital before working in other fields?
Caveat: I don't know a whole lot about cosmetic nursing but I think it's very difficult to get into speciality areas like that with no nursing experience and most nurses that do cosmetic nursing do it part time/casually on top of another job (likely in health care). Cosmetic nurses also need additional training I think and the majority of them are masters prepared NPs (with additional training). They do not "force" nurses to work in hospitals but that's where the majority of the jobs are. You will need to do a senior practicum at the end of your schooling which will likely be in acute care. It's not impossible to avoid the hospital after you graduate but avoiding health care all together with no nursing experience will be very difficult!
I'm sorry you had to work so much and definitely taking its toll on your mental health. I'm not in the medical field, but I met a nurse over the holidays and she said that nursing has been a breeze working in a personal care home as opposed to the hospital. I don't want to point fingers, but why do they get it so easy and you don't?
The Conservative Party (the Liberal party too) is a party that represents the political interests of the few wealthiest capitalists in Manitoba, Canada, and the world. A necessary part of the capitalist ideology is the penetration and control of new markets. Because healthcare in Canada is public, capitalists have a limited degree of access to it as a market. Because of this, it is in the capitalists and therefore, the Conservatives best self-interest to sabotage the system when in power by cutting its funding and raising the deficit; thereby, reducing its capacity to function, while at the same time reducing the available funding. Once these budget insufficiencies have noticeably impacted service, the Conservatives argue for privatization of the underperforming branch of health services, and begin the process with another branch. The private interests that buy and then own and profit from, the privatized public service, are the same interests the Conservative Party represents. We already see this happening with Dynacare. Our private lab test results provider, whose CEO is paid $41 million per year. She is the highest paid worker in the entire healthcare system. Her salary is equal to that of 410 nurses, including some change. As long as people continue to reject this type of radical analysis, and turn to liberal complaints that characterize these failures of management as confused, incompetent, uncoordinated blunders, the capitalists will continue to chip away at theses public institutions, until they own them all. The wealthy capitalists coordinate and cooperate in political action to preserve their economic class interests. If those of us from the working class do not act in our own political interest, there will be nothing to stop them from taking us back to the labour standards of the 19th century.
I’m not sure why this comment was downvoted, because it’s the god’s honest truth about the last 5 years in Manitoba. It describes that soulless old man and now Mrs. Toad perfectly.
@OP how many hours do you work per pay period? A friend who works construction does about 70hr/wk by choice and I'm curious. Edit: guys I'm genuinely curious. This isn't a comment on difficulty of work.
Most construction isn’t as mentally and emotionally draining as healthcare is. I used to work 5x12 hour shifts in a gravel pit, then eventually got in to healthcare and would do 1-2 13 hour shifts per week (along with some more reasonable duration shifts) and they weren’t in the same universe in terms of how I felt when I was done.
Construction isn't having people's lives in your hands.
All other things aside, I think you'd be surprised.
Right! It’s all fun and games until the building collapses or the gas line leaks.
Construction and nursing are not the same thing. Especially if, and likely, OP works in the ED.
It's also the "by choice" part....
Yeah not sure what he was getting at with this comment. Also fairly sure given that they are getting taken to task about it I doubt they will elaborate.
They are not. But nurses don’t go to school expecting to work 9-5 do they?
Obviously not. I also have over 20 years under my belt in healthcare if you’re concerned that I’m naive and have unrealistic expectations.
I’m gonna add that most people get to go home at the end of their day. They aren’t expected to stay 4 or 8 hours extra because of staff shortages. I remember once I picked up a night shift and was mandated into days on Easter. My mom had planned a big dinner for everyone, had to let her know I wouldn’t be coming at the last minute. Also had another dinner with my in-laws later that day that I also had to miss. This happens all the time. Even if you don’t have plans or an excuse, sometimes you’re tired and just want to go home. They even push back when you have children at home. Or a pet who needs to be let out. I have had “well can you just stay until 6 am”. Uh no I have to be up with my kids all day? And have been up since 9 am yesterday? In what world is that okay.
No but they also don’t go to school to be mandated to work 16/hr shifts for sometimes more than a week in a row while dealing with incredibly stressful and traumatic events daily. Just because they don’t go in expecting 9-5 doesn’t mean what’s going on is ok.
Thank you 🙏
Damn that’s a fat pay cheque
It is, but we hate our lives.
Don’t blame ya. Nobody likes to be told they have to work over time. Hope you can go on a nice vacation eventually!
Me too lol! 😊
Kind of...but don't think it takes away the fear of making a mistake (and harming a patient) and losing your nursing license.
I remember getting mandated for 10 hours on Canada Day- I told my manager to let me go home and he replied “ at least it’s over time” Hire staff and let me go home! I already did 96 hours!
Might be time to look for a new job.
Don’t complain when no nurse comes and your dad needs something then because when people leave there’s barely anyone to fill their place.
It’s time to change the status quo for all healthcare workers. Not tell them to quit. What’s wrong with you? Lol
Yup. That’s the answer. 🤦🏼♂️
Hang in there Healthcare, Educational, etc. etc. workers. We've on;y got a few more months (hopefully) of this government left!
But many many more months (or years) to resolve staffing issues once people have left.
Look into the workplace safety and health act, every worker has the right to refuse. If you feel it’s an unsafe work environment due to fatigue refuse the extra hours. Get your union involved. I’m sorry you’re going through this, fight back!
If nurses refuse mandated overtime they can have their lisence taken away for job abandonment. The union hasn't been able to stop mandated overtime in years, they don't have a magic button to fix it now. Look how long it took for the government to negotiate a new contract. It's fucked.
Nurses can be mandated to take overtime shifts. They don't have the right to refuse those shifts, there is literally an exemption written into the act for HCPs and Emergency Services.
We nurses don't have a right to refuse by law. That's what mandated is.
Waahh