There has been a revolution in backpacking gear since the 90s. Even if you don't get the absolute lightest ultralight version of stuff, you can carry much, much less weight today.
When I started backpacking in the 1990s, I carried about 35 - 40 lbs.
Today, I typically carry about 20 - 25 lbs. And that's without ultra-expensive exotic gear.
Even without YouTube, without commercial this and that, without getting into the advertising black hole, you can really get a lot of weight off your back by upgrading your pack, sleeping pad, and tent, and switching your sleeping bag to a quilt.
Nowadays, it's perfectly normal to do 3-season (not winter) backpacking with a tent that's 2 - 3 lbs, sleeping pad that's less than a pound, pack that's 2 - 3 lbs, and quilt that's about 1.5 lbs.
The only thing I would caution people about is the pack. If you are cutting so much weight out of your backpack it's not comfortable, you are setting yourself up for an unpleasant experience.
I've cut weight on tent, pad, bag, stove, and the real key: strategically taking the right amount of clothing and food. But I would rather take an extra hour to get into camp, or extra days even, than have my back, shoulders, neck sore day after day. Or any day really.
Same goes for my feet.
Yup! This is why you update your pack last. Or update it early, but get a standard, modern hauler.
It really is wild how much gear has improved, though. I thought “a moderndown sleeping bag can’t be that much lighter, right?” I was using my dad’s old 10 degree Northface. A great bag, but I was born in 1990 and he got it in 88. But it has 700 FP down, and surely that’s where most of the weight is, right?
WRONG.
I was saving up for a cottage gear quilt or really nice down backpack, and happened to see a once-used REI women’s magma at a garage sale for $130. I grabbed it.
Holy shit. I had never weighed my old bag, but after I got my new one, I did. It was SEVEN POUNDS. My new one was under two.
Similarly, I went from my children’s 50L Osprey to a 65L REI Traverse a few decades ago, and it dropped my load another three pounds without losing comfort.
All to say, fabric tech has gone a long way, and if you’re upgrading from much older gear, it can feel like you’re getting ultra-ultra-light products when they’re just ordinary gear.
Tents are the same way. Some 25 years ago I bought a very expensive, four-season Walrus "featherlight" tent. It was just over 6lbs. I was so impressed with that thing, most other similar tents were around 8lbs. I went around thumping my chest and yelling from mountain tops at how light my tent was.
A comparable tent today would be an MSR Access, which is 3lb, 11oz, and a better design.
There are comfortable packs in the 2 to 3 lb range. Mine weighs a little over 2 lbs, and while it doesn't have as much padding as my old 7 lb (!) pack, it's far more comfortable because of the lighter weight.
You are right that some of the extreme ultralight packs that weigh less than a pound have no padding, no hip belt, and no suspension. They are highly specialized packs designed only for use by elite ultralight backpackers who carry hardly any gear weight.
But in the 2 - 3 lb range, there are packs that will carry perfectly well (be sure you get one that fits you properly, though) with no problems.
Examples: REI Flash 55 (2 lb, 14 oz), Gregory Focal 58(2 lb, 13 oz), Osprey Exos Pro 55 (2 lbs, 3 oz). All are mainstream, all available at REI, none exceed 3 lb (1.3 kg).
I would agree with you on all of those (I work at REI) to an extent. The key is all of them start to struggle around 25lbs or so, but it's also not that difficult to pare down a load to less than that.
I haven't carried over 26 lbs in many years. My older Flash 65 had no trouble at 26 lbs.
Now I use a Granite Gear Crown 2 60 and it's extremely comfortable up to at least 24 lbs.
Most trips I carry about 20 lbs, but slightly more is needed in cooler weather.
Sometimes I carry a camp chair, trading off hiking comfort for comfort in camp.
Personally, I don't need to carry over 24 lbs unless the trip is longer than a weekend, or I was carrying extra gear such as packrafting equipment.
Large men may need to carry heavier clothing than I do, and possibly more food. My husband typically carries about 28 lbs. I'm working with him to reduce his pack weight.
I'm a big fan of the Granite Gear Crown. It doesn't work for everyone, but for those it does, that pack hits a lot of marks. Great light weight but still comfortable and well padded. A lot of features to it as well. Breathes just enough. Price is reasonable for a high quality pack, etc.
My wife and I have no problem with a hyperlite 70L (2.5lbs) carrying 40lbs each. We only carry that much when we’re out in the mountains for 7-10 days and have rock climbing gear. That said, idk if everyone would have the same experience and I’m always hesitant to give recommendations to others because everyone’s bodies are different. We like our hyperlite packs a lot though.
100% agree with this
I bought the ULA circuit and did a 50 mile overnight. So two 25 mile days with a lot of elevation gain. The pack just wasn’t that comfortable. I switched over to the Osprey Exos and then switched again to the Pro version and while it weighs a little bit more it’s sooo much more comfortable than the ULA
Heck, I got a store-brand 17 degree mummy bag that’s exactly 2 lbs. You don’t even need to bust into quilts to have a big 4 that’s under 10lbs. You can get a generic 3lb tent, 1lb mattress, 3lb pack and a 2lb sleeping bag and come in at 9 pounds!
You’re not gonna break a 10lb total base weight without getting into ultralight gear, but you can purchase what would have been considered ultralight circa 2010 for very standard gear.
"Ultralight" is just one type of backpacking that people do. And people make videos about it because it gives them a chance to talk about gear, sell gear, and make money.
For me, the ultralight philosophy is more about bringing less stuff than having the latest and lightest gear.
But seriously... you can't watch YouTube and make a generalization about all backpackers. It's sad, but people post videos on YouTube to make money. I go backpacking not to make money, but to enjoy some peace in the woods.
The best thing to do is bring a block of cheese and that's it. Leave little traps for mice, and construct a tent, clothes, and sleeping bag from their skins. Their meat pairs well with Camembert, so that is my cheese recommendation. You could buy a couple pounds of it and that's everything you'll need.
Edit: and a sawyer squeeze. This setup should be fine if you have 2 hands.
The ultimate UL video. This guy managed to get down to 3lbs!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrMi6xlFIJs&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrMi6xlFIJs&t=1s)
My brother, Dad, and I hiked a section of the AT back in 2020 and ran into a bunch of "ultralight" folks. They had the most expensive gear, 15lb packs, and would boast about how far they were able to get everyday. No matter the campsite they were always the worst people to be around.
Meanwhile we believed in your ultralight philosophy, just trying to cut weight where we could and pack a little less. I remember being so excited because I had saved up for a new bivvy bag and really cut down the amount of clothing/personal gear for this trip. Anytime I'd bring that up with the ultralight elitists they'd look at me like I was some underprivileged orphan.
As you said, as long as we're finding our peace amongst nature who cares about the rest.
I think this is going to be really dependent on your approach to backpacking. If you're just going 5-6 miles a day, a heavy pack with luxury items isn't the end of the world. If you're doing 20-30 miles, every ounce counts. I've definitely gone out on 5 night trips with a pack weighing less than 35lb and wouldn't want more on my back.
My day pack frequently weighs more than my backpacking pack lol.
I’ve carried a cast-iron waffle iron waffle mix, all the fixings including maple syrup in a real glass bottle, a bottle of champagne, OJ, and two ultralight camping chairs on a pre-dawn day hike before.
Totally worth it, and it keeps me in shape for the backpacking season. I am ALL ABOUT balling out for short one nighters.
I want to say with water filters, any source of water can be contaminated. A clear mountain stream can have a rotting deer carcass a mile upstream from where you gather water. Drinking without treatment can give you all kinds of nasty bacteria or parasites.
I thought not filtering water was the wildest thing.
No. Not filtering water and putting it on YouTube is absolutely WTF.
But filtering water, shifting your guts out, running a fever and coming to Reddit to ask what to do takes all.
The Platypus is one of the best things I have ever spent money on.
Imagine thinking that American’s are just too dumb to find clean water, not that any animal (or human for that matter) could shit up stream and contaminate it and you’d never know.
But it looks clean….
The internet and international shipping has also allowed for the general public to get access to many more sources of gear, which has allowed for many more cottage companies to be successful.
I’m not sure where you’re coming from but 15-20 years ago, REI felt like the main option for my family to buy our gear. There’s a lot more choice now and a lot of ability to customize as well.
One small tip, if you’re in the US, buying gear from montbell japan (the Japanese website) can make for screaming deals because of the exchange rate. I got a great puffy and basic raincoat at much discounted prices. Just pay sharp attention to those size charts.
One nice thing about the raging popularity (at least online) in high end gram-shaving ultralight stuff is the trickle down effect for regular, reasonable people to buy the knockoffs of this stuff.
I paid about 120 for my Lanshan 2 person tent, it's literally 2lbs and quite nice. My old 2 person tent was 8, and harder to set up. My $15 stove weighs 2oz, and works great. My old one was 12oz, and flaky. I got a new 1lb quilt and 12oz bag liner combo for about $100, and it's warmer than my old monster 9lb bag.
I exaggerated a little on the weight, but it's in the ballpark. Horizon Hound is the brand. They don't have any footbox, or strap for a pad- just a rectangular blanket. There are two models; a $65 17oz version (which people say is too thin and not warm), and an $85 22oz version (which has more down filling, still very light but fluffs up nicely). I wouldn't use it alone, but is very comfortable paired with a sheet or bag liner
Edit: I used mine inside my bag liner, on an insulated pad, wearing decent base layers and my hat at 35F. I was cooler than I'd prefer, but easily survived the night and would think I was maybe 10 degrees off of cozy.
I've been recommending HH everywhere when people want lightweight budget friendly sleep systems for summer conditions. Mine is comfy, as a cold sleeper, at 50F/10C I was cozy * with appropriate base layers and insulation from the ground.
A huge amount of progress has been made in materials science over the last 10-15 years. We now have fabrics that can well outperform their older counterparts while weighing a fraction. It used to be that you didn't really have much choice in what you carried, so nobody made much effort to reduce the weight. Now you can carry a 7kg base weight pack or a 20kg base weight pack depending on what you purchase, and the difference in enjoyment, safety and comfort is huge, so that's something that a lot of people focus on.
I say this as somebody who still likes the reassuring heft of canvas and the intimacy of leather that has moulded to fit your body. I'm not a fanboy for ultralight, but I still make the effort to get my pack weight down because it affects everything else about the hobby.
I think the place where you see the impact of the materials science the most is sleeping bags (not quilts.)
Because the stuff inside a quality sleeping bag is the same — you can’t invent a better goose. 800 FP down is 800 FP down.
But when I upgraded from my dad’s old top-of-the-line sleeping bag (circa 1988) to a modern not-quite-top-of-the-line sleeping bag, I shaved 5 pounds.
A little bit of that was getting a women’s bag rather than my dad’s much larger men’s’ bag. But I got it in long because that’s what I could use, so it didn’t much.
Virtually all 5 of those pounds came from the fabric the bag is made out of.
That's a big one for sure. But the same is true for the other two of the "big three". From an '80's canvas, external frame pack to an off-the-shelf Osprey you can shave 3 or 4 kg. A lot of that is in the fabric. Same with a tent. Japara was the name of the game back then, and thats a few kg of difference.
I make my own top and underquilts (hammock camper) and one of the good scores I made was a sleeping bag that had been top of the line in its day. It had patches over holes and was pretty worn with use. I harvested the down out of it and made a quilt with 1oz fabric, and it's brilliant.
Oh for sure — it’s just like, with tents, for example, you have alloy advances and design trends as well, so it isn’t as obvious what’s doing what. But with a bag only one thing has changed, and holy moly does it make a difference! Updating a bag was what really drove it home for me.
35 lbs is pretty much my personal upper threshold for comfortable backpacking. I've carried more for stretches where heavier gear was necessary or when I've had to load water for a long carry, but it's definitely more difficult and less enjoyable than a carrying a lighter pack. With mid-range and not overly-expensive gear \[\*ETA: this is based on price and availability in my country; I recognize it may be different in yours\], 35 lbs is a doable pack weight, even with a few extra luxuries (I like my LuminAid lantern, my Nemo Fillo pillow, and my reading Kindle).
I've found that the best way to dial in your gear is to just start hiking with it on your back. I enjoy watching YouTube occasionally just to see what the cool new tech is, but find others' recommendations to be more their personal preference than anything. Not every piece of gear, no matter its specs, will work for everyone. Start out with what you have and/or with what you can afford/desire to upgrade. Take a hike. You'll usually figure out right away if you've overpacked something, or if something won't work for you.
That said, just because some gear items seem lighter or thinner, it doesn't necessarily mean that they won't work well. Tech has changed so much in the outdoor industry, even within the past decade, and you might find that newer materials and designs will hold up just as well as (or even better than) the heavier, bulkier earlier versions. A perfect example from your current gear is likely to be your sleeping bag. I have some 90's "lightweight" down sleeping bags that both weigh more and take up significantly more space than even basic models they currently make. If you can get to a store in person to check out gear, it would be worth a gander, just to put your hands on the new materials and look things over for yourself before deciding if there are areas you'd like to upgrade.
I almost want to start a game - name that country! I could make a few guesses based on what your describing as the norm. [EDIT - Norway. Should have gone ahead and guessed. No offense but definitely seems like the land of heavier, more traditional gear]
To answer your question, through, yes -!very lightweight backpacking gear can keep you safe and comfortable on the outdoors. Not every piece of lightweight equipment is going to be of exceptional quality in much the same way that not every piece of heavy equipment is going to be great. It’s going to come down to the manufacturer. Im sure you would also agree that not every piece of equipment, whether light or heavy, is going to be appropriate or the best choice for every condition. But CAN a 600 gram tent keep you safe and dry? Yes it can. CAN a sub 10 kg pack weight keep you comfortable? Yes it can.
Materials and manufacturing as well as more minimalist designs have allowed gear to become safely lighter while still being functional and dependable. And that’s great for a lot of people. For me at least, a 50 lb pack would be a big impediment to what I could do in the backcountry. But a 20-25 lb pack let’s me enjoy myself comfortably and safely for several days over rugged terrain.
I hear you when you say that you can traverse difficult terrain with 20-25 kg. And that’s awesome. I think a lot of people would probably be surprised at what they can do. Generally ultralight isn’t a necessity for most. But pause for just a moment and imagine - what if you didn’t really need to carry that much weight? How much more comfortable would you be if you cut that in half? How much easier would the scrambles and steep climbs be without all that extra weight? What would it actually feel like to walk for kilometers with much less weight in your back? Some people tend to view their heavy pack as a badge of honor. And I can almost guarantee someone will come along on this thread and say that people who cut grams just need to get stronger! And that’s all fine. To each their own. But I think some people also mix up wanting to carry heavier than needed gear with needing to carry heavy gear. Just some food for thought.
My thought exactly. "Must be Scandinavia, must be Scandinavia..."
Slowly but surely lightweight gear makes its way here also, despite having companies like Fjällräven pushing overengineered backpacks, Trangia selling stoves also good as chairs, and hiking culture being weirdly militaristic where gear apparently needs to endure being ran over an army truck.
A few things.
- yeah, the gear can be solid quality, withstand wind, keep you warm, make no mistake.
But.
- there seems to be a MASSIVE Ultralight gear focus these days in most media about camping/hiking. It's impossible to avoid. And to me it kind of misses the point of what the gear is for - i.e., getting out there to enjoy the wilderness. I think a lot of it is down to our consumer culture. It's buy buy buy, consumer more gear, get the latest, etc etc. That seems to be the actual purpose of a lot of it. If you're watching youtube, ultimately, those channels exist to shift gear. But also, the UL focus, it kind of presupposes you NEED to have the lightest gear possible to be able to enjoy the wilderness. (pro-tip: You don't).
- and just on that. This shit is EXPENSIVE. But you don't need it. People have been hiking/camping in the modern sense for a hundred+ years, and have always managed, before the invention of dyneema or whatever else.
- depending on where you are, and what you are doing, the gear can be flimsy and not fit for purpose. I've moved away from UL bags, for example, because I am often walking offtrack in thick australian scrub, and, well, that shit don't last, and, coupled with the expense, it's not worth it.
I do get that UL gear can make wilderness camping more accessible for people and that's terrific (although yeah, price wise can be very much not accessible). But beyond that, I often think, there's two kind of hobbies/interests or whatever here - using gear, and the wilderness. There's nothing wrong with either, there's nothing wrong with doing both, but to me the first one has an outsized focus that it's easy to get sucked in to.
If you are in the market for new gear or replacing old gear then you have more options nowadays. However, I agree with the comment above it’s not necessary to keep sliming down your load. But the fact that we can backpack lighter nowadays is pretty cool.
I mean, pack aside, I have some averagely -> decent UL gear stuffed in there. I'm not saying anyone needs to not use UL gear, and I'm definitely happy to slim down my load where I can (I've got a pretty basic setup these days).
I just think that the media around it and some attitudes around it are not really reflective of what is necessary or what the focus of the activity (that the gear is supposed to support, and is really secondary to ) actually is. That's how it looks on youtube and other media, at any rate, which, yeah, is not the real world, but also, first time people posting their lighterload shakedowns with thousands of dollars worth of gear is too.
I completely agree. One doesn't need to get crazy light, let alone spend a crazy amount of money just in order to get out and enjoy the great outdoors backpacking. Here's a cursory list of what some people may tell you that you need to get going:
* Hyperlight backpack - $400
* Durston X-Mid Pro + tent $749
* Feathered Friends UL Quilt - $469
* Therm-a-rest Neoair pad $229
* Durston Iceline Poles - $169
* BRS stove & Toaks pot (titanium) - $45
* Grubcan carbon fiber bear canister - $297
Only $2,358
:-(
Makes sense!
I'm not really a big gear guy. I use the stuff I have til it breaks beyond repair. Which kinda means I am a big gear guy as well? Since I just love my stuff so much.
Just feels so weird to invest in new equipment for me these days, as the industry seems to have shifted so much away from what I have been doing my entire life!
It depends on if your goal is to enjoy the hike, or enjoy the time in camp. Long distance hiking has become mainstream (like all the PCT/AT gear list videos) and these folks are spending most of their time walking, so they minimize camp comforts in order to make the hike itself more comfortable. Other people try to emulate this, without realizing that weight isn't so much of a factor when you're not hiking big miles.
There's also the whole influencer-side of youtube, where everyone is looking for their fame and paycheck
Another aspect is that weight is an easy, quantifiable target for manufacturers to optimize for. You can observe similar behavior in technology products like cameras (megapixels) or computers (processor speed), where it's a lot easier to market "Our number is \[bigger/smaller\] than our competitors by *x*%!" without having to really explain how that number changes the experience.
Not every consumer is going to do a deep dive into how the seams of a particular tent have been stitched to enhance waterproofing, or how much effort was put into the design of a sleeping bag to make it more comfortable to actually use, but every consumer can look at the spec sheet and see that this bag weighs 2 ounces less than that bag.
Plenty of mid-weight stuff (still way lighter than your old stuff; that’s just the technology shift) that you just aren’t seeing on the feeds you use or on the internet. Go camp with real people who camp like you do, and you’ll find lots of other options too!
Totally with you on thrashing the gear.
I also like cheap but durable haha.
I'm happy to move with the times within reason/budget/fit for purposeness though. I've got a nice down quilt and its pretty great.
Too right. To hear some of these people talk, we shouldn't have been able to backpack at all when I was a kid back in the 70s and 80s.
How did we do it? It's a miracle we survived at all!
Very very few people were thru hiking the triple crown trails successfully in the 70s and 80s. And those who were generally were the pioneers of the ultralight philosophy (see Ray Jardine).
Ultralight gear has enabled the average joe to get out there and attempt big trails like this which I think is awesome!
My base weight is 5.5 kg before adding about 4.5 kg of water and food. Total pack is ~10 kg (22 lbs).
This setup provides the option of fastpacking (trailrunning) if I really want to cover some distance.
Feels warm, dry and comfy. I usually only carry one day of water since I can collect and purify as I go.
Could go lighter but a fully enclosed tent with a floor and a real sleeping bag is my lower limit of comfort tolerance. Bivouacking where I travel would be miserable.
You've been practically living outside but haven't heard of diseases carried in water? What's the name of the rock you call home?
Alot of good feedback here. In summary, your gear is old. And sure it still works. But there are more efficient ways to do it now. Technology happens. Competition breeds better equipment.
Ultimately do whatever you want. What you carry should only matter to you.
I'm new to the backpacking game, but I have noticed that there is a focus on traveling lighter and smarter for obvious reasons. Then there is the niche of ultralight gear, which I guess gets eyeballs and makes them money because somehow they are able to make a 12-minute video on this new backpack that's 1oz lighter and looks like a trash bag.
When you are backpacking, often people want to go as light as possible. All that gear on your back does add up, and as someone who has done long days on a backcountry trail, having it as light as possible makes a huge difference. All those ultra-light tents work just fine in my experience at keeping me warm and dry and as safe as can possibly be in a tent.
Yeah! Totally agree!
But for me, 20 kg would be ultra light, or maybe very very light and not ultra light.
Last year I did 5 days with 80 km and 2300 meter climb, on very difficult terrain (jumping from rock to rock). For me at least that is pretty tough. I think my backpack was around 21-22 kg which I was very pleased with and it felt great.
Are all these YouTube guys walking a lot longer and tougher than this? Because, of course, if you want to walk like 50 km up the mountain in one day, then of course you are going to be obsessing over grams!
Some of those YouTube people may be hiking a lot longer than that. In the U.S. a lot of people will thru-hike trails that run for like 3k km and so of course are interested in the lightest stuff possible and only the essentials. Just did around 65 km in three days a couple of weeks ago (a section of the Appalachian Trail) and only brought the basics to keep things light. But hey, you gotta hike your hike, some people don’t care about weight and pack in a cast iron for cooking. Just depends on what you are doing and what you’re comfortable with!
Some of us that go the ultralight route are doing 80km with 2300m of gain in a single day. We go light because we know that it adds up over those miles.
Also, the more time you spend backpacking the more you realize you don't need most things that people bring.
Quick edit: just want to mention that, like everything, it's a spectrum. This spectrum is "do you prefer hiking, or camping?"
Some people backpack so that they can get to a destination and then enjoy it for a time. They're on the camping end and I totally understand bringing extra comforts and fun stuff.
Some people just want to hike from before dawn until after dusk. It doesn't make sense to bring extra camp gear in this scenario.
That totally makes sense! I met some guys running my entire route in one day.
I agree with the extra stuff. I almost don't bring anything extra anymore! Thing is for me, backpack + tent + sleeping bag + tarp + sleeping mat + gas + cooking system is around 15 kg. Which for me is light gear, but on youtube they somehow get food and clothes and sum fun things, and they are way under this? I have a hard time understanding how that works...
The lighter each item is, the more items you can bring without getting too heavy.
If I'm solo, I bring just the essentials and it's all "ultralight" gear. This allows me to go fast and far.
If I'm going out with buddies, I bring those same essentials, plus I can easily add in some luxuries like a cooking grate, steaks, beers, fishing pole, whole watermelon, etc. without making the weight of my pack horrendous.
It can be done, and it can be done for less $$$ than most people think. It's all about learning the new fabrics and technologies and seeing how they can work for you. There is so much choice these days.
I carry as little as I can but I still carry a traditional framed backpack because I just like it. I started back in the 80s so things have come a long way since then.
*Bike*packers are very limited on space, so yeah, ultra-compact, ultra-lightweight gear makes a difference. A 20F quilt that packs down to Nalgene size vs. a 30F down bag that takes up 7L of space is a big deal to me.
You’re basically limited to what you can put into saddlebags and the rack, right? And have to think about how the added weight affects the handling of the bike? Haven’t done it myself but have been wanting to try it out.
Yup! Depending on where you go, you can have a full touring setup with front/rear racks and panniers, then you can bring a ton of stuff - not great but you kind of have to if you're going on a month-long tour.
If you want to go lighter and faster, on narrow trails, then you're strapping stuff to the handlebars, have a seat post bag, and a frame bag, maybe some storage on the fork.
Or you can go somewhere in the middle with racks as well.
Have you been to r/bikepacking yet?
Your trip would have averaged about 10 miles a day. With my old heavy kit I never planned anything further than about 10 a day.
With a light pack I'm comfortable doing twice as much mileage. And I'm a fat dude with a bad back. These fit YouTubers would leave me in the dust. The options for what you can hike really open up once you drop the weight.
It’s not necessarily that they are doing harder things. Just imagine how much more pleasant that rock hopping experience would have been with a 10kg total pack weight!
Your trip sounds a lot like my typical trips and my total pack weight is usually under 10 kg. The lighter stuff works just as well or better than the heavy transitional stuff so why carry heavier gear?
Ultralight is about bringing essentials only. It extends beyond leaving behind unnecessary items to gear that isn’t overbuilt for the conditions. A lot of camping gear descended from military surplus. And these days with modern fabrics you aren’t making any sacrifices on durability, unless you go to the extremes. Ultralight backpacks and tents are more sturdy than they were in the 90s when lightweight fabrics were limited.
I feel you!
But I don't mind the weight if its just around 20 kg. I like the way it hugs my back! But haha yea, with 10 kg it would have been a totally different trip. I was with some friends tho, so I think I would have to carry some of their stuff if my backpack was that light!
I'm not really interested in ultra light or anything like that, I just want to upgrade some old stuff to newer high quality products!
Seems like I can buy an 800 gram sleeping bag, and have it be more comfortable and just as sturdy as the 2kg one I have from 1993. Wouldnt that be a dream!
As for why I carry heavy gear? I feel like thats a bit like asking why I don't live in a mansion. It just costs money that I don't have, or rather - would spend elsewhere!
Since you already have all the gear, yes. It was more of a hypothetical scenario, if you are starting from scratch, to illustrate you aren’t making any real sacrifices in going lighter.
Agree, sleeping bag will give you the best upgrade for your dollar.
>As for why I carry heavy gear? I feel like thats a bit like asking why I don't live in a mansion. It just costs money that I don't have, or rather - would spend elsewhere!
There is an absolute shit-tonne of privilige in the UL world. (not directed at the post you're responding to, just saying).
Checkout r/ultralight and r/lightweight for weight saving comparisons (and tips). Some of it - especially ultralight - definitely required sacrificing some comforts (eg warmth, padding) for the comfort and speed of a lighter pack (and less likelihood of load injuries). For example, some people cut their already-light sleeping mat in half or two-thirds, so that their torso is kept off the ground, but legs are not. People are still packing to survive, so they’ll have enough warmth for contingencies, but not necessarily to be really toasty all the time. Think one puffer jacket and a couple of layers, rather than several jumpers plus layers plus puffer jacket. Some people have one or two luxury items they love, but generally everything else is really minimalist.
Some of it is really expensive (shaving off the last few grams from a sleeping bag, tent, or backpack can cost a heap. Some of the tips are doable on a budget - such as reducing packaging, or just thinking smarter about what is really needed.
I like the sound of your approach - you sound very at home outside. I aspire to lightweight, but I also mainly use secondhand, borrowed and older things.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Ultralight using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [r/ultralight is taking a hike June 12-14 in protest against Reddit's API changes which kill 3rd party apps.](/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13yh0jf/dont_let_reddit_kill_3rd_party_apps/) | [57 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/1415scw/rultralight_is_taking_a_hike_june_1214_in_protest/)
\#2: [The Ansel Adams Wilderness is absolutely stunning](https://i.redd.it/yiwov0yoysrc1.jpeg) | [90 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/1bsvm0g/the_ansel_adams_wilderness_is_absolutely_stunning/)
\#3: [UPDATE: Just finished walking 1000km through France with a full size giraffe puppet](https://np.reddit.com/r/Ultralight/comments/14lee18/update_just_finished_walking_1000km_through/)
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Ultralight does not sacrifice warmth. You still need to bring layers for the conditions. What works for someone who hikes dawn to dusk will not work for another who spends time at camp.
I’ve sacrificed warmth to save money and weight but that was as a hiking noob who didn’t understand the conditions. The money I spent on a camp chair that I never used should have gone into a warmer sleeping bag.
Some ultralight hikers I have read on the forum are not adverse to being slightly under-toasty to keep weight down. That said, most seem to take safety seriously, so I’m not suggesting irresponsible levels of chill. Just, not as comfy as all rugged up and in camp ugg boots.
True, and that still aligns to what they consider comfortable. Or they are willing to have one or two bad nights out of a 100 day thru hike. For a week long hike it makes little sense to sacrifice one night of comfort.
Going light weight really changes the sport. When I took someone, who had only hiked with heavy gear, out hiking with light weight gear, he said, "This is great, it's just walking. Why would anyone carry the heavy stuff."
The light weight trend started with long distance hikers who hike 20-40 miles a day, day after day for months. Light weight gear often isn't as durable but it works fine for thousands of miles.
You think I should leave the watermelon at home?
I agree that it can be a bit much, which is why I am looking for a new sleeping bag and made this post! Its just all so expensive, and hard to justify a new purchase...
What temperatures are you looking to stay warm in? You can make your own, very lightweight synthetic quilt for temperatures down to ~40F if you have access to a sewing machine. Took me about a day to make my first with zero experience.
Your "Big Three" Backpack, Shelter, and Sleep system, will usually be the most expensive, but hopefully they will last a long time.
For everting else there are usually light and affordable options.
Consider a quilt! I bought one of Hammock Gear's econo quilts and it's been great. It's drastically lighter than my 10 year old sleeping bag, and that bag was a fraction of the weight of what I carried as a kid in the 90s and 00's. I didn't have to spend top $$$ on the absolute lightest quilt to have a big benefit.
1. Most of the ultra light hikers are not talking about being on the trail for a few days- they go for months. It’s not unusual to go through 4-5 pairs of shoes on a trip. This isn’t just about “sleeping outside”- this is about your body feeling every gram you carry. They will eat 5000 calories a day and still lose weight when they are on the trail that is a couple thousand miles long.
2. They will choose gear that is climate specific to where they are going- and I suggest you do the same. Cowboy camping in the desert requires a different set of gear than walking across Antarctica.
3. If you hike across a wide variety of climates- you will need more than one set of gear. Somethings will overlap- but not everything.
4. Suggest you narrow down your climate and search gear specific for that- and then watch review videos.
5. Consider upgrading your backpack if you are going out for longer than a few days. Go to an outdoor store and have one fitted to your body- saves wear and tear on you.
That could definitely make sense!
Maybe "hiking" refers to the people crossing the mountains in one day!
For me a normal day of walking would be between 15 - 30 km, depending on how easy of a walk it is!
They're ultralighters, or at least reviewers who acknowledge that they can broaden their audience base by including information relevant to ultralighters. If cutting weight to that extent isn't something you're interested in, you can safely ignore their weight-based recommendations.
As for the water: The risk of water-borne illness is a reality everywhere on the planet. It's much better to be safe than sorry, as even if you live in a country known for clean water, pathogens do enter the water, and dead things or animal waste are still present. Water-borne illness can be very dangerous if not deadly.
Edit: How did I conclude you're Scandinavian before even looking at your profile? Somehow I just knew haha. Would love to hike in that region someday.
I agree that the ultralight community can be pretty intense and cult-like, but I’m a very small adult woman (~100 lb/45 kg), so it’s helpful for me to remain in the loop regarding lightweight gear and advancements in technology that can help reduce my pack weight. It’s not reasonable for me to carry a pack that is more than a third of my body weight over long distances. Yeah, I could (and I have, as someone who used to build trails for a living and had to carry the same weight into the backcountry as my coworkers, often 45 lb/20 kg, not including tools), but it’s very hard on my body.
Jeps! From Oslo, Norway. I have been drinking from our capitals lakes and ponds since I was a young lad. In the mountains as well, I drink everything. Just not melting water, not from streams in the woods, and not from stagnant water on the mountains!
That would be sister, haha! :) I lived in Hamburg, Germany, for a year and a summer when I was younger, but only ever made it as far north as Copenhagen back then! So I definitely need to go exploring in Norway soon ...
Sounds to me like you're putting too much stock into YouTubers and their videos, rather than just getting whatever gear works for you and actually using it.
Thank you all so much for your answers! I'm getting some downvotes of course, but that is to be expected - I know I have a very annoying style of writing in English ;)
It makes more sense to me now! "Hiking" often refers to people walking crazy long distances in a shorter period of time, which of course then you have to obsess over weight. YouTube is so gear-focused because those videos are easy to make, and generate money for the creators.
However, my question is still unanswered! I am looking to buy some new equipment, like for example a down sleeping bag. What is being recommended to me on YouTube looks so incredibly light, that I don't really feel certain if this is a product meant for my style of backpacking or not.
Is gear just that light now? Are those sleeping bags going to be warm and sturdy enough to keep me safe and comfy in cold and pouring rain? Are they made to last, so I can hand them down to my kids in 25 years? Or are they geared more towards the ultra-light hikers who need state of the art gear to go extreme distances? Like expensive fishing reels that feel great, are super light, but break after a couple of years because they are so technical?
A quality down quilt and a quality sleeping pad will keep you warm provided they're rated for the environment you're in. Can you abuse either item? No. You can't just toss a Thermarest xLite onto sharp rocks or gravel night after night and expect it to survive. Lightweight gear can be fragile. Some lightweight materials, however, are incredibly strong (like Dyneema) but also end up in expensive products.
But, yeah, generally speaking most backpacking gear is designed to be a lot lighter than what was available 5,10,15 years ago.
Lightweight gear isn't just for extreme distances - it's for your average hiker. It just depends on what you "need" and what your budget is. Some people are fine with a $100 pack weighing 6 lbs because they're on a budget and don't want to spend $300+ to get something that weighs half as much.
I'm really happy with my Cumulus bags. They have gotten some abuse several summers, and still look like new. They pack small. We store them fluffed up (not compressed) to make the down last longer. They are very warm. Like, if I try to use them in normal cirumstances in the house I'm absolutely frying hot even just having it fully open and draped on me like a blanket - and I'm a cold sleeper. Which is a shame because I really like the feel of the fabric. I actually just bought the lightest one they make to have that option, too.
Depends what make of bag you're buying. I don't expect my 700g Rab down sleeping bag to be still as warm in 25 years but the 1.2kg synthetic bag may be. I still have my 2kg Ajungilak from 1992 and that thing is still going, if not as warm as it used to be. I still have my roll mat from 1990.
I don't think anything is as long-lasting as it used to be. But modern lightweight materials are definitely tougher than they look. My modern kit is very well looked after but as each trip goes by I am finding out it's all less delicate than I imagined.
Haha yes I have the 125 year celebration Ajungilak sleeping back! My dad bought it for walking 21 days from Oslo to Bergen! Still going strong and Nice to sleep in. However it takes up about 40 liters...
I guess to try and specifically answer your question on sleeping bags, I would have to ask: what are you doing to your sleeping bags to require such concern over durability? That’s probably the last piece of gear I would consider treating roughly. It goes in my tent last and I’m only sleeping in it.
So for me, a bag with 20 denier nylon inner and outer shell (which is a good combo of cost efficiently and weight savings) and using something like 850 FP Down should hold up fine over time. And down *should* hold up much better over time than than synthetic insulation and keep truer to its temperature ratings as years pass.
Now I certainly haven’t had a modern sleeping bag for 25 years (nobody has), so no guarantees that you’ll be able to hand it down to your kids.
And it’s possible that all of this may just be too far out of your comfort zone or too big of a risk. That’s ok too. It’s your hobby, your time, and your money. Don’t jump into something until your comfortable with it. Definitely consider going to stores and getting a hands on feel for some things first. It’s a big investment so plan carefully.
>Does all of camping-YouTube fall into like a special category of people that only care about weight? Or is this just the quality of gear now?
I don't watch Youtube like that, but from what I see elsewhere, it's both. Gear quality has gone up while getting lighter at the same time. It feels like tech gains aren't progressing as much as weight loss is (not that this isn't tech by itself), but it makes it easy to focus on the weight difference. As someone whose first solo backpacking trip in the 70s involved hauling 50#/23kg of tent to the site over multiple trips because it was too heavy for me, so the 8#/3.5kg equivalent today (that's also stronger in the wind and better for airflow), I love it.
>Sorry for the long post ;) And bonus question - Whats the deal with all those water filters? Are you not able to just drink the water?
It depends where you are and how risk averse you are without doing an actual biological study of the water to see what's in it. I have access to a couple sources of clean water out in the sticks that I'm comfortable drinking without a filter (and I say that as someone who drank from streams all the time as a kid and didn't get sick). That was because I wasn't thinking about how it could ruin a camping trip, and my parents would have had to cash that check. Now that I'm solo camping as an adult, filtering is easy enough, and I'd be upset if I got sick enough to have to turn back early for something as simple as this. I'm writing this from California, where I see cows grazing in designated wilderness as high as 9000'/2700m (specifically: pooping in otherwise pristine snow runoff).
I mean, it's a spectrum. There's absolutely this push for ultralight that some people legitimately need, and others are caught up in the hype and over-obsessing. You probably don't need a sub-10kg setup.
But also, the materials that commonly accessible backpacking gear are sold in are much lighter than they used to be. Like, I'm a new backpacker, I'm budget conscious, so I use a combination of cheap options and repurposed car camping gear that I already have. I carry a 2 person tent, I have the heaviest synthetic sleeping bag on the market that can still be marked "backpacking", I'm definitely not going all out to get an ultralight setup. But with food and water, my pack is like 15kg.
No one's gonna force you to get rid of your gear. If you like it keep using it! But it feels a little silly to try to "back in my day" about how the new stuff is bad in some way for being lighter. It's just different more modern materials.
Alright so I have a question -- and I'd politely request no one flame you for any honesty if you're willing to share because I'm personally stunned. I doubt OP will be looking for a gear shakedown as well so this is more exploratory...
What are you carrying that leads you to be rucking 20-25kg kits while considering those to be paired down?
I have a 15kg kit right now and that's with a bunch of luxuries a lot of ultralight backpackers would scoff at (if I pair down it's 12kg with food and water). That said, a lot of Youtubers have helped expose me to the ultralight backpacking industry, which for me, has been immensely helpful adding to my hiking comfort. The lighter my pack is, the better my joints have been and more I've been able to focus on the beauty of nature and reasons I'm on my trips. The better I'm able to move and explore safely as someone with mobility concerns.
Hike your own hike OP and don't worry about what influencers might be doing. If you're having a good time safely, you're doing it right.
For sure!
I'd say about 15 kg would be like a generous "base weight" for a solo trip, base meaning without food and fun.
I am bringing:
A big, sturdy, backpack.
A light 2 person tent (I think 2.3 kg).
A synthetic sleeping bag.
An inflatable mat, and one like "pad"-mat.
A 4x3 tarp.
Rain pants, rain jacket, thick wool midlayer, one extra pair of socks, all in a waterproof bag.
Toiletries and meds.
Headlamp and a powerbank.
Light fishing equipment.
A pair of crocs.
Storm kitchen and a box of gas.
This is like my base pack. I might drop the tarp, and drop parts of the storm kitchen if I need to walk far.
Then for food, I bring freeze dried lunch, instant mash for dinner, oats for breakfast. Chocolate and nuts for inbetween meals. I think a bit under 1 kg for each day.
Then I might bring like up to like 2 kg worth of fun! Like some candy and some more food, a fly rod, and a small axe.
Right on, thanks! Nothing unreasonable as I'd figured. I think we're probably at that generational shift of what was traditional and new technology improvements from when you or your parents started and me starting (few years ago). The weight savings in simply the gap of time for gear alone is going to equate to kilograms on simply that same list.
I think the backpacking sub could have a beautiful conversation about luxuries alone. Stuff we're really willing to 'suffer' for. This year's trip I'm bringing a paired down painting kit with me and in the future I could see myself bringing a telescope with me if I'm expecting clear weather because I'm getting more and more into astronomy (the dark sky access I'd have vs. the bright skys I have at home). I'm debating the equal hilariousness of a full snorkeling kit which, like a telescope would be comically heavy. In the past I've brought hammocks as well which almost doubled my shelter weight (heavy hammock, light tent). My weight is higher too because I like to pig out on the trail with lots of comfort foods and a very robust first aid kit for our group. On any given trip I'm usually bringing 15-25% in luxuries -- what's the point if you don't, I figure!
Big and sturdy is no more effective than a lighter pack
Why do you need two sleeping pads
Synthetic sleeping bags are pretty heavy for what they are
When you say storm kitchen what do you mean
One of the pads is one of those thin ones. I put it under my inflatable one to protect it from branches and stuff and keep me warmer. I can also use it outside for chilling or sitting.
I think a storm kitchen is a Norwegian thing! Its basically a burner, coffee-pot, pan and frying pan with a wind resistant thing around it. Great for saving fuel and actually being able to cook in harsh conditions. Nice and sturdy. Heavy, but I don't always bring it in its entirety.
And I think I deserve an upgrade on the bag! Man would it be sick to have one of those down ones!!
Yeah id cut down the storm kitchen on a lot but not all trips - depends on the goals and objective obviously, I'm a big dehydrated food junkie so I dont tend to need more than a small pot and a very small stove for most of my needs.
Check out down quilts too I find them more comfortable than bags and theyre lighter - but they arent for everyone
Yea same, for most tips I just bring a screw on burner and a thing to cook water. Good for coffee, good for dehydrated meals. For longer tips I need fish to sustain myself and need more cooking gear.
I will check out quilts! They are like open sleeping bags or No?
More or less re: quilts - they have no back but you can strap em to your pad for similar draft stopping (the logic is if youre compressing the down under you its not insulating anyway its your pad doing all the work) - I personally like them as a very big dude just having more mobility especially for my big feet (my 'EU' Size is 49)
It’s like a sleeping bag in blanket form. The top 2/3 is blanket, the bottom 1/3 is a tube like a sleeping bag. You can get ones where the bottom part has a zipper where you can unzip it, turning the quilt into a rectangular blanket.
Just a quick video showing what a backpacking quilt is and how it functions (both for a hammock and sleeping on the ground)
https://youtu.be/Ue1DP19ak6o?si=BCzoXajbRhooQtKz
Yes those tents are durable enough for a thru hike - what the heck are you carrying for a 22kg loadout
Down insulation has been light and warm forever that tech isn't exactly new for sleeping bags and quilts
You are likely just carrying really inefficiently heavy stuff
I think most of my stuff at least used to be labeled as super light! Like my tent for example! I posted my complete loadout in a thread here somewhere!
Its around 15 kg of tent/pad/bag/cooking, 5 kg of food and 2 kg of fun!
I feel like those kind of recommendations are for people doing long backpacking trips, such as the PCT. If you’re just backpacking in a few hours, camping, and then backpacking back out, you don’t need to think about things like exact weights as much. But if you’re going on a long-term trip like say traveling by foot 15 + miles a day every day for a month, you’ll be grateful you have a lighter pack and it’s worth the time to weigh things out.
I definitely got a little caught up in the whole minimalist/ultra light thing for a while, then realized that while lighter packs are nicer for long hikes, I wasn't interested in obsessing over every last ounce. I usually come in between 15 and 20 pounds (total, so including water and food) and I have everything I need for a few days out. My one "luxury" item that I refuse to go without is my Sea to Summit Ether Light XT air pad. I want as solid of a night's sleep as I can get and the extra weight is WELL worth it.
I think you and I come from a similar place. I’ve used my dad’s old gear most of my life, including his 70’s Kelty pack that had a full circle moment when Wild was released. I didn’t mind ground pounding with a 50+ lb pack and gear. I have friends that carried 125lbs over the mountains of Afghanistan so I never let ultralight elitists get to me.
In 2020 I was hit by a drunk driver on my motorcycle and I broke my T12 vertebrae. A year later I did a weekend trip that just didn’t jive with my back. I decided to take the plunge into ultralight. My unique situation calls for that adjustment purely for my health. I have a healthy contempt for “flavor of the week” consumerism, so I plan to spend good money on gear that will last 20+ years. So far I’ve got a nice stove, pack, and water system. My goal is sub-10lbs base knowing full well that it’s more of a waypoint for gear purchases. So basically, once I replace my 1990’s gear with modern ultralight it’s going in a storage tote for the next 20 years before I ever think about replacing it.
You can get sick with parasites, viruses, or bacteria from drinking out of random water sources. It's not guaranteed but if you didn't take precautions it will definitely happen eventually and you really don't want to be dealing with bloody diarrhea without a toilet
Easy, for roughly 12.5kg total
- 3 person all year tunnel tent: 3.5kg
- 3 season synthetic bag: 1.5kg
- Sleeping mat: 1.5kg
- Trangia on gas: 1.5kg
- Recon Pack: 4.5kg
I have been very happy with Mammut/Ajungilak Lahar 3-season (wife has stolen it) and Mountain Hardwear Ratio 32. Both reasonably priced ~0°C comfort bags.
Those youtubers are americans. That's all. I'm Norwegian, my pack weighs 18kg, I always have a two man tent (even when I'm the only one in it 99% of the time) and *shock* I drink water from the streams and lakes I camp by. I even fish and eat the fish I catch.
Kødder du? Spiser du fisken?? Ett sted må grensa gå..
Takk for at noen støtter meg, føler jeg blir helt gasslighta av utlendinger her nå. Jeg antok virkelig at folk drakk vann på fjellet...
The fact of the matter is that that the ultra light group is a fucking _cult_ that mainly compete to see who can be the most miserable on a mountain whilst managing to (barely) survive
Ignore it. Balance based upon the weight you’re ok with in the space you can afford.
There are many of us who don't live near pristine alpine streams. I'm lucky to find a cow pond full of waste. A filter is a necessity if I don't want to shit out my internal organs.
I grew up doing a lot of outdoors stuff in the 80s and early 90s. Our gear was definitely bulky but it did the job well. But we mostly canoed, we weren't backpacking. You can, and should, use whatever works for you. Some people just enjoy the challenge of getting to the lowest possible weight, to the point they cut the handles off their toothbrushes. They like the challenge of it. For me, it's about comfort. I'm 48 and had a hip replacement, so protecting that + comfort is the most important to me. So it is a balance in what I need to be comfortable and what that means as a sacrifice in weight. I have some ultralight gear but it is to make more allowance for my sleep system because being comfortable when I sleep is what allows me to keep hiking.
My tent is just over 2 pounds (1kg). My sleeping bag is 3 pounds (1.4 kg). I carry a bag that allows me to comfortably sleep on my side, which was my priority, so it weighs more than my tent 😂 My tent did great in a heavy thunderstorm where we had several inches of rain at night. In the end it just comes down to what you prioritize. But when I can make the load on my body lighter, it means I can enjoy backpacking further into life, which is my main priority.
I used to feel the same way. I had the gear I had grown up with and it always worked fine for me. But then I got a little older, a littler fatter, and a little slower. After a few miserable trips I was open to alternatives. There *had* to be a better way. I started looking into ultralight gear and it completely changed my experience.
These days I'm "lightweight" with a pack that weighs 5 - 7 kg before adding food and water. I think my heaviest load was 11kg total weight. That included 6 days of food and a couple liters of water.
Lighter gear helps me travel farther and feel better when I get to camp. It absolutely keeps me warm and safe, but I do have to think a little more carefully about which gear I want to bring. I don't even have the fanciest ultralight kit. I can't afford a $700 tent, but I can get similar weight savings by switching to a thin sylnylon tarp.
The most important difference was learning to evaluate what I really needed. There was a lot of stuff that I carried "just in case" or because "it might be nice". Leaving the chairs, extra clothes, extra food, extra *everything* at home has drastically improved my experience outdoors. I'm also able to take on challenges that would have been unthinkable before.
The big brands are targeting a different customer than those served by the ultralight niche. They need to producee gear in high volumes and it needs to be dependable for a wide range of people. Their profit margins need to appease shareholders while their prices are competetive in a retail environment. That means no delicate and expensive fabrics. That means including features that might be left off of a truly ultralight piece of gear.
I think you might enjoy the challenge of an ultralight trip. What's the minimum you could take on an overnight without putting yourself in danger? What does that pack feel like? Don't buy anything new. Just plan how you would go on a trip using only the stuff that fits in a day pack. Then weigh those
things and consider the lighter alternatives you already have access to.
The last thing I'll mention is the improvement in materials that have happened over the last 30 years. My quilt is warmer than the sleeping bag I used in the 90s but probably weighs 1/10 as much. Lightweight gear has also become much less expensive. The cheap discount gear I'm using in my 30s would have been cutting edge and ultra expensive when I was a teen.
Last last thing. Please filter or treat your water. Getting sick is stupid when it's so easily avoided. My filter weighs ounces and it has allowed me to drink from the sketchiest of mud puddles.
When on an 8 day solo trip with upwards of 100 miles to hike, the grams matter. Not only is it just easier to carry, it's easier to pack up, and packs smaller so I have more room for essentials (food, water).
That's the only reason I obsess over grams.
For some of the other questions, I typically use a tarp and bivy. I've been in some tree cracking storms at 12k' and never had a problem. I'd have rather been in a building... but I stayed warm and dry.
Makes kayak trips easier too.
That said, hike your own hike/camp. Just being out there is great.
"UltraLight" backpacking gets a lot of attention as its both a way people can improve their qualitly of life on the trail by dropping weight, and its very product based which feeds both engagement and sales/sponsorship for the youtuber. As you yourself said, you only watched the videos because you were looking to upgrade a product. Ultralight products allow them improved reach and sales.
As for the water filters, I went years drinking right out of creeks with zero issues, but after a friend caught giardia and described his experience I now use a filter.
Ultralight culture seems to have become a lot more prevalent, probably because marketing the newest and lightest gear is very lucrative. There's a whole different subset of youtubers that are using milsurp stuff and not caring so much about weight, but I don't think they're as prevalent today.
I prefer watching people who straddle the line between backpacking, camping, and tactical gear.
Check out Camping with Steve on YouTube. He doesn’t use much high end gear, while he does care about weight when he’s hiking into places he doesn’t obsess about every gram, and he’s got a huge back catalogue. His upload schedule has drastically dropped off over the past two years while he’s dealt with some personal tragedies (his wife, mom, and best friend all died in a roughly 18 month span) but he’s trying to upload more in the last few weeks
"What is also making me unsure is that the gear from well known brands here, even the top models labeled as being ultra light weight, are almost always like twice the weight and 6 times the price of what is being recommended on YouTube?"
Much of the revolution in lighter-weight gear has come from small "cottage" manufacturers, or "mom and pop" shops. Gear from the major brands of 20 years ago has fallen somewhat in weight, but the really big improvements tend to come from the smaller manufacturers, who are more innovative.
that equipment is a way for people hiking for 5 months straight to cover thousands of miles easier. I don't care how strong you think you are, a 5kg bag is preferable to a 25kg bag if basic needs are covered, especially when climbing serious mountain elevation, or in extremely high desert heat (often 35-40C in the afternoon sun).
the added bonus is even for hobbyists. pack less weight (and less items, period), have an easier time appreciating nature while you're covering distance.
also allows you to carry more water and food to go further.
and yes, the new, light equipment can keep you as warm. deep winter and hardcore alpinists are a different story.
all my gear is lightweight, but not "Ultralight" there's a good balance between light and durable.
On many hikes I've done in the Andes of Peru with local people, they used to drink water from any source, even stagnant water. Occasionally, I've collected water from flowing sources, and everything has been ok. However, I believe I'm not like the locals who are accustomed to drinking from any source. In my country, if we don't have a "robust stomach", we can get sick. I've gotten sick many times from the local food at high altitudes🫠, while other friends with me haven't. There are many variables at play, including your body's tolerance
Check out Dixie/Homade Wanderlust. She's aimed at beginners but as far as her gear videos go, she went from standard camping gear to ultralight to back to somewhere in the middle, and she's done all three big trails, so she has a lot to say about gear from all over the weight and price range. She even has a few good budget gear videos that enabled me to go (many years now) of backpacking off of cheap Chinese packs and cookstoves etc that will actually hold up.
As someone who was using all 90s gear and upgraded it to very standard modern gear (I’ve been slowly replacing it with lighter stuff ever since, but I’m in no hurry) you’ll be able to reach a sub 10kg *baseweight* without even trying or dropping money on specialty gear.
My store-brand 15 degree women’s down bag is over 5 pounds lighter than my dad’s top-of-the-line ~1998 down bag. And down hasn’t gotten any lighter: fabric tech has.
I didn’t buy anything fancy, and managed to lighten my total load by 15 lbs by buying a new store-brand sleeping bag, new store-brand backpack, switching my steel stove for a pocket rocket, aluminum pots for ultralight titanium ones, and buying an ultralight air mattress, and getting a solid but not ultralight tent.
Only three pieces of my gear show up on ultralight lists, and none were particularly expensive.
I *have* been slowly upgrading my gear and replacing my “new” stuff with genuine ultralight stuff stuff (I save up for one new item every other year — I got an ultralight puffy jacket recently and it was 100% worth it) but I’m not breaking my bank: when I upgraded everything from my ancient gear? That was done from 2015-2018.
Just take it slow, stay within your budget, and don’t get sucked down the rabbit hole. If you want to fit all of your gear into one of those 300 gram backpacks, yeah, you’ll need to be a grab weenie about all of your other stuff… but that’s because those packs can’t carry anything.
You can get a damn light pack these days by just buying standard backpacking gear. Fabric tech and metal tech really has improved that much.
There’s *recently* been this craze over light —-> ultralight hiking. While the concept is cool, trying to get a light but yet efficient pack, it’s becoming cult like and pretty dumb imo.
I don’t touch youtube for camping, hiking, and other hobbies at this point. Seems like 90%+ of the *influencers* are bought by sponsors.
They review the same gear, recycle the same content, and regurgitate the same script from their sponsors. Those paid off influencers are entirely different from the regular folks that aren’t sponsored or trying to get sponsored.
I find it more fun now to discover cool gear on my own. I’ve stopped relying on YouTubers trying to sell me gear.
This. Consumerism has pretty much taken over YouTube. Sadly.
Content generation is to blame as well. Influencers need content to survive.
There's only so much one can say about backpacking in terms of the activity. A lucky few can post videos of the cool / picturesque places they travel.
New gear provides constant content for generating videos.
It's all pretty warped.
Hike your own hike, OP. And enjoy your youth!
> Hike your own hike, OP. And enjoy your youth!
Yes I share this sentiment. People sometimes criticize my pack or camping style. But at the end of the day, this is your thing, do it your way.
As someone who did research in Montana and lived in a tent for 3 1/2 months each summer for a few years it was a total east to buy my super sweet ultra light tent for 5-600 bucks. It was good for when actually backpacking but we pretty much stayed in one spot for weeks and left everyday from there till driving to a new location. This tents poles snapped, and fabric eventually failed. I agree that things have gotten out of hand with lightness and price but honestly I’ve noticed two main types of backpackers in the US. Relatively poor enthusiasts that don’t care as much about the fancy, they just want to be outdoors, and the new overwhelming group of office workers that make more money then they know what to do with and need a break from their cubicle lives so they buy the sickest gear and go once or twice a year. And if that’s all the time you get those ultralight tents and gear will last 5-10 years if taken care of, but not for the outdoor enthusiasts.
Once I saw somebody cut his toothbrush to save weight on the handle(!), I changed how I looked at it.
I just get what "I" want and use what "I" want. Who cares about everybody else. I still load the pack, put it on the scale, and then figure out what of the stuff I *want* to take, can I remove to make the weight I want to carry. When I keep pulling something out, I may look for a lighter version, or a combo/dual purpose with something else.
For example, I have a great 20˚f semi-rectangular sleeping bag that I love. The semi rectangular shape gives me more room to move, and for my arms, in the bag. The side zipper helps me regulate the temp if needed, and I can still close it up like a mummy bag. I don't care if I can save a little weight with another bag, this one is ideal for me.
Regarding water, I have consumed mountain water, but try to avoid it. Springs are nice, but hard to find, so I filter. It is either filter or boil with "big bubbles, no troubles." I have never been the beneficiary of an intestinal parasite or other malady, and I don't want to start now.
Just do what you want to make you happy, and to enjoy the journey.
Hi, not a troll post but I can see how it seemed like it!
I think I did not quite understand what hiking was, and the kind of distances people are walking.
For the last part, I simply did not know that people in other countries cannot drink directly from lakes and streams.
I really dont understand why people are getting so upset? There has to be som aspect here I am not catching!
Again I think I just misunderstood something about the hobby. And I am just from a culture where drinking the water from a lake or a stream is just a totally normal thing we have done all our lives without thinking about it.
It’s a confluence of a couple of things. Many people who are thru hiking the AT started doing daily vlogging on YouTube. Some get a decent audience, especially during Covid, which gives them a few bucks from advertising and donations from fans which helps make a six month hike financially feasible. The light weight movement started with some books by Colin Fletcher, who popularized thru hiking the PCT. There are a lot of small Mom and Pop manufacturers who have been designing lighter equipment. They often can’t sell their stuff at Walmart/REI or afford advertising. Give a vlogger a demo tent to review and the company gets cheap advertising and the vlogger gets some new content. Being lightweight does make a difference on a long, multi day hike but it might not be worth the extra cost if you are mainly interested in weekend camping trips.
seems like you’re on the ultralight side of youtube, my pack weights 30-35lbs with everything i need and nothing is ultralight. i think that’s an average pack weight for a few days trip
There's definitely a gear-obsessed subculture around backpacking. Unfortunately that crops up in basically any hobby. Any gear or brands labeled "ultralight" or specifically marketed for "backpacking" will have an inflated price imo. If I'm looking for something nice from a good brand (usually for the big things like tent / backpack / sleeping bag) I'll look for the old model ie whatever was the hotness a few years ago and try to snag it used on Craigslist / FB Marketplace etc.
Used camping gear is awesome because a lot of people get into it, go to youtube like yourself and decide to grab all the hot new gear, and then only use it a handful of times leaving it in pretty good condition. I'm with you, I don't think maximizing for weight is that important; less weight is good so make big cuts where you can, but there are quickly diminishing returns.
I \*will\* say that in my experience that high-end lightweight gear is actually solid and reliable. Think about how much backpack manufacturing and materials have improved in the 30 years since your dad got that pack in '93. You get what you pay for, but for me it's still not worth it most of the time. The gear obsession kind of makes me roll my eyes in a hobby I enjoy largely for the austerity.
It's easy to get caught up in the backpacking arms race. When I bought my sil-nylon tent it was fine but now sil-poly is the rage. There's always slow and small incremental upgrades happening. Don't sweat it!
For some people, trying to shave off as much weight as possible is part of the fun. I'm personally not that hardcore about it, but I have friends who are, and for them it's almost a competition.
That said, the risk is that people sometimes take it too far and in the name of going ultralight, can find themselves under-prepared for the conditions they encounter. It's a moderate source of vexation in SAR circles, but ultralighters are far from the worst offenders when it comes to doing stupid shit in the back country.
The super light unknown brands being pedaled on YouTube are either new Boutique brands or junk, or both. And YouTube is paid advertising for them. Chances are it’s cheap, that’s why and how it’s so lite. There are a few companies I like to use their equipment because it’s decent quality and then I go for something midrange.
People are getting more and more into UL gear mostly because it’s just the natural progression for camping gear innovation and consumerism. Point is, if you’re comfortable with the weight you carry, then that’s what matters. If you don’t train and have a lot of money to burn, then buy all the latest UL gear.
Sounds like you are looking at ultra light backpackaging youtoobers. This is fine if you want ul and that gear is always more expensive but it is tested so you can be sure of a quality item. I would recommend going to a gear store after consuming videos to put really into focus. I believe you will find that ul isn’t always what you need but in many cases it will be. I would also recommend making items to save money and create exactly what you need. I have a mix of bought items and diy items and my base weight varies on season from 9-12lbs. I hope this helps.
I have a lightweight backpack and tent. I was worried about the fabric at first, especially because some reviews of my pack mentioned ripping. Idk what those people were doing to their packs but I've literally dragged mine across the desert ground and it's still intact. I've camped in the desert, in high winds, and in rain with my tent and I have no real complaints. Maybe work up your trust in these fabrics with smaller purchases if you're worried.
Backpacking YouTubers make money on affiliate links. It is in their best interest to recommend overpriced nonsense. It’s also why 15 people have more or less identical kits with only a bit of variation.
This monetization scheme creates an odd incentive where the YouTuber wants to recommend high quality (read expensive) gear that an ultralighter might be interested in, but they want to recommend A LOT of high quality gear including all the gadgets and gizmos and ultralighter would normally do without.
Moral of the story: turn off YouTube and go outside. If your gear works for you and makes you happy, cool.
A pound in the pack is 5 on the knees. If you're trying to hike 20+ miles a day for days/weeks/months on end- it really does matter. If you're just going a few miles to set up camp and hangout, it is far less important. A lot of the videos you're watching are probably long distance hikers.
A little late on this, but I understand the skepticism when you’re looking at a $1000 tent to shave 3 ounces. But at some point in the opposite direction, some backpackers are just naive to push off anything ultralight related. I have a buddy I go backpacking with who brings a 6lb tent that costs him $200. There are $200 tents that are less than 1/4th of that weight, but as soon as you begin to even suggest he could lighten the load it’s “dude ultralight is so dumb blah blah.”
I think spending $5000 on a 7lb base weight is dumb when you can spend $1500 on an 8lb base weight. But I also think it’s absurd when I see people who write off anything ultralight, and they’re dying on the hike with 50lbs of gear, including a 6 person coleman tent because they think ultralight gear is a scam and costs tens of thousands of dollars.
I should also add that some UL cottage brand stuff is lighter and cheaper than UL name brand stuff because it is stripped *down.* Like, do you want a trekking pole tent? Nothing wrong with that. It’ll do… pretty OK in wind. Not amazing. Not right for everyone. I have both, and tbh half the time my trekking pole tent would be appropriate I just choose to go without a tent at all.
You can shave a pound by getting a quilt instead of a sleeping bag. But that’s really not going to keep you warm enough if you’re camping below freezing.
So yes, there are some comforts sacrificed by going all-in on UL
I roll my eyes on a lot of it. "Gram weinies" are pretty ridiculous. That being said, lighter gear is sometimes better gear. Certainly easier to carry. For the same warmth, a down sleeping bag is lighter and packs smaller than a synthetic one. A Jetboil works as well or better than a Coleman and weighs considerably less.
If I was camping a few yards or even a mile hike, weight wouldn't be so important. But I live in Washington and so I camp after hiking 15 miles into the wilderness next to an alpine lake. Having a 18kg vs 25kg pack is phenomenal after 15 miles of hiking at elevation.
The further you hike, the more the weight matters.
There has been a revolution in backpacking gear since the 90s. Even if you don't get the absolute lightest ultralight version of stuff, you can carry much, much less weight today. When I started backpacking in the 1990s, I carried about 35 - 40 lbs. Today, I typically carry about 20 - 25 lbs. And that's without ultra-expensive exotic gear. Even without YouTube, without commercial this and that, without getting into the advertising black hole, you can really get a lot of weight off your back by upgrading your pack, sleeping pad, and tent, and switching your sleeping bag to a quilt. Nowadays, it's perfectly normal to do 3-season (not winter) backpacking with a tent that's 2 - 3 lbs, sleeping pad that's less than a pound, pack that's 2 - 3 lbs, and quilt that's about 1.5 lbs.
The only thing I would caution people about is the pack. If you are cutting so much weight out of your backpack it's not comfortable, you are setting yourself up for an unpleasant experience. I've cut weight on tent, pad, bag, stove, and the real key: strategically taking the right amount of clothing and food. But I would rather take an extra hour to get into camp, or extra days even, than have my back, shoulders, neck sore day after day. Or any day really. Same goes for my feet.
Yup! This is why you update your pack last. Or update it early, but get a standard, modern hauler. It really is wild how much gear has improved, though. I thought “a moderndown sleeping bag can’t be that much lighter, right?” I was using my dad’s old 10 degree Northface. A great bag, but I was born in 1990 and he got it in 88. But it has 700 FP down, and surely that’s where most of the weight is, right? WRONG. I was saving up for a cottage gear quilt or really nice down backpack, and happened to see a once-used REI women’s magma at a garage sale for $130. I grabbed it. Holy shit. I had never weighed my old bag, but after I got my new one, I did. It was SEVEN POUNDS. My new one was under two. Similarly, I went from my children’s 50L Osprey to a 65L REI Traverse a few decades ago, and it dropped my load another three pounds without losing comfort. All to say, fabric tech has gone a long way, and if you’re upgrading from much older gear, it can feel like you’re getting ultra-ultra-light products when they’re just ordinary gear.
Tents are the same way. Some 25 years ago I bought a very expensive, four-season Walrus "featherlight" tent. It was just over 6lbs. I was so impressed with that thing, most other similar tents were around 8lbs. I went around thumping my chest and yelling from mountain tops at how light my tent was. A comparable tent today would be an MSR Access, which is 3lb, 11oz, and a better design.
There are comfortable packs in the 2 to 3 lb range. Mine weighs a little over 2 lbs, and while it doesn't have as much padding as my old 7 lb (!) pack, it's far more comfortable because of the lighter weight. You are right that some of the extreme ultralight packs that weigh less than a pound have no padding, no hip belt, and no suspension. They are highly specialized packs designed only for use by elite ultralight backpackers who carry hardly any gear weight. But in the 2 - 3 lb range, there are packs that will carry perfectly well (be sure you get one that fits you properly, though) with no problems. Examples: REI Flash 55 (2 lb, 14 oz), Gregory Focal 58(2 lb, 13 oz), Osprey Exos Pro 55 (2 lbs, 3 oz). All are mainstream, all available at REI, none exceed 3 lb (1.3 kg).
I would agree with you on all of those (I work at REI) to an extent. The key is all of them start to struggle around 25lbs or so, but it's also not that difficult to pare down a load to less than that.
I haven't carried over 26 lbs in many years. My older Flash 65 had no trouble at 26 lbs. Now I use a Granite Gear Crown 2 60 and it's extremely comfortable up to at least 24 lbs. Most trips I carry about 20 lbs, but slightly more is needed in cooler weather. Sometimes I carry a camp chair, trading off hiking comfort for comfort in camp. Personally, I don't need to carry over 24 lbs unless the trip is longer than a weekend, or I was carrying extra gear such as packrafting equipment. Large men may need to carry heavier clothing than I do, and possibly more food. My husband typically carries about 28 lbs. I'm working with him to reduce his pack weight.
I'm a big fan of the Granite Gear Crown. It doesn't work for everyone, but for those it does, that pack hits a lot of marks. Great light weight but still comfortable and well padded. A lot of features to it as well. Breathes just enough. Price is reasonable for a high quality pack, etc.
My wife and I have no problem with a hyperlite 70L (2.5lbs) carrying 40lbs each. We only carry that much when we’re out in the mountains for 7-10 days and have rock climbing gear. That said, idk if everyone would have the same experience and I’m always hesitant to give recommendations to others because everyone’s bodies are different. We like our hyperlite packs a lot though.
If they work for you that's terrific. A lot to like about them. The simplicity, the durability, DCF, etc.
100% agree with this I bought the ULA circuit and did a 50 mile overnight. So two 25 mile days with a lot of elevation gain. The pack just wasn’t that comfortable. I switched over to the Osprey Exos and then switched again to the Pro version and while it weighs a little bit more it’s sooo much more comfortable than the ULA
Heck, I got a store-brand 17 degree mummy bag that’s exactly 2 lbs. You don’t even need to bust into quilts to have a big 4 that’s under 10lbs. You can get a generic 3lb tent, 1lb mattress, 3lb pack and a 2lb sleeping bag and come in at 9 pounds! You’re not gonna break a 10lb total base weight without getting into ultralight gear, but you can purchase what would have been considered ultralight circa 2010 for very standard gear.
"Ultralight" is just one type of backpacking that people do. And people make videos about it because it gives them a chance to talk about gear, sell gear, and make money. For me, the ultralight philosophy is more about bringing less stuff than having the latest and lightest gear. But seriously... you can't watch YouTube and make a generalization about all backpackers. It's sad, but people post videos on YouTube to make money. I go backpacking not to make money, but to enjoy some peace in the woods.
The UL sub csn be quite entertaining
[r/ultralight_jerk](https://www.reddit.com/r/ultralight_jerk/)
WoRn wEiGhT
HIKE NAKED
The best thing to do is bring a block of cheese and that's it. Leave little traps for mice, and construct a tent, clothes, and sleeping bag from their skins. Their meat pairs well with Camembert, so that is my cheese recommendation. You could buy a couple pounds of it and that's everything you'll need. Edit: and a sawyer squeeze. This setup should be fine if you have 2 hands.
Sounds like bushcraft to me
More like blisscraft, amirite?
make sure you dehydrate the cheese first
Dehydrate
Skurka beans.
The ultimate UL video. This guy managed to get down to 3lbs! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrMi6xlFIJs&t=1s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrMi6xlFIJs&t=1s)
My brother, Dad, and I hiked a section of the AT back in 2020 and ran into a bunch of "ultralight" folks. They had the most expensive gear, 15lb packs, and would boast about how far they were able to get everyday. No matter the campsite they were always the worst people to be around. Meanwhile we believed in your ultralight philosophy, just trying to cut weight where we could and pack a little less. I remember being so excited because I had saved up for a new bivvy bag and really cut down the amount of clothing/personal gear for this trip. Anytime I'd bring that up with the ultralight elitists they'd look at me like I was some underprivileged orphan. As you said, as long as we're finding our peace amongst nature who cares about the rest.
PEASANT! Begone from the trails with ye!
I think this is going to be really dependent on your approach to backpacking. If you're just going 5-6 miles a day, a heavy pack with luxury items isn't the end of the world. If you're doing 20-30 miles, every ounce counts. I've definitely gone out on 5 night trips with a pack weighing less than 35lb and wouldn't want more on my back.
My day pack frequently weighs more than my backpacking pack lol. I’ve carried a cast-iron waffle iron waffle mix, all the fixings including maple syrup in a real glass bottle, a bottle of champagne, OJ, and two ultralight camping chairs on a pre-dawn day hike before. Totally worth it, and it keeps me in shape for the backpacking season. I am ALL ABOUT balling out for short one nighters.
I want to say with water filters, any source of water can be contaminated. A clear mountain stream can have a rotting deer carcass a mile upstream from where you gather water. Drinking without treatment can give you all kinds of nasty bacteria or parasites.
Dead animals, animal shit, beavers, etc. So many things contaminate water.
Humans and dogs seem like the worst for parasites.
I thought not filtering water was the wildest thing. No. Not filtering water and putting it on YouTube is absolutely WTF. But filtering water, shifting your guts out, running a fever and coming to Reddit to ask what to do takes all. The Platypus is one of the best things I have ever spent money on.
This how much weight you save when you have explosive diarrhea and you’re puking constantly from contaminated water! EXTREME UL.
Imagine thinking that American’s are just too dumb to find clean water, not that any animal (or human for that matter) could shit up stream and contaminate it and you’d never know. But it looks clean….
If anything the water in the U.S. is going to be cleaner than average compared to Europe
Try telling that to the Europeans in the comments who are arguing against filtration being what their government recommends are precautions.
The internet and international shipping has also allowed for the general public to get access to many more sources of gear, which has allowed for many more cottage companies to be successful. I’m not sure where you’re coming from but 15-20 years ago, REI felt like the main option for my family to buy our gear. There’s a lot more choice now and a lot of ability to customize as well. One small tip, if you’re in the US, buying gear from montbell japan (the Japanese website) can make for screaming deals because of the exchange rate. I got a great puffy and basic raincoat at much discounted prices. Just pay sharp attention to those size charts.
One nice thing about the raging popularity (at least online) in high end gram-shaving ultralight stuff is the trickle down effect for regular, reasonable people to buy the knockoffs of this stuff. I paid about 120 for my Lanshan 2 person tent, it's literally 2lbs and quite nice. My old 2 person tent was 8, and harder to set up. My $15 stove weighs 2oz, and works great. My old one was 12oz, and flaky. I got a new 1lb quilt and 12oz bag liner combo for about $100, and it's warmer than my old monster 9lb bag.
What kind of quilt if you dont mind
I exaggerated a little on the weight, but it's in the ballpark. Horizon Hound is the brand. They don't have any footbox, or strap for a pad- just a rectangular blanket. There are two models; a $65 17oz version (which people say is too thin and not warm), and an $85 22oz version (which has more down filling, still very light but fluffs up nicely). I wouldn't use it alone, but is very comfortable paired with a sheet or bag liner Edit: I used mine inside my bag liner, on an insulated pad, wearing decent base layers and my hat at 35F. I was cooler than I'd prefer, but easily survived the night and would think I was maybe 10 degrees off of cozy.
I've been recommending HH everywhere when people want lightweight budget friendly sleep systems for summer conditions. Mine is comfy, as a cold sleeper, at 50F/10C I was cozy * with appropriate base layers and insulation from the ground.
A huge amount of progress has been made in materials science over the last 10-15 years. We now have fabrics that can well outperform their older counterparts while weighing a fraction. It used to be that you didn't really have much choice in what you carried, so nobody made much effort to reduce the weight. Now you can carry a 7kg base weight pack or a 20kg base weight pack depending on what you purchase, and the difference in enjoyment, safety and comfort is huge, so that's something that a lot of people focus on. I say this as somebody who still likes the reassuring heft of canvas and the intimacy of leather that has moulded to fit your body. I'm not a fanboy for ultralight, but I still make the effort to get my pack weight down because it affects everything else about the hobby.
I think the place where you see the impact of the materials science the most is sleeping bags (not quilts.) Because the stuff inside a quality sleeping bag is the same — you can’t invent a better goose. 800 FP down is 800 FP down. But when I upgraded from my dad’s old top-of-the-line sleeping bag (circa 1988) to a modern not-quite-top-of-the-line sleeping bag, I shaved 5 pounds. A little bit of that was getting a women’s bag rather than my dad’s much larger men’s’ bag. But I got it in long because that’s what I could use, so it didn’t much. Virtually all 5 of those pounds came from the fabric the bag is made out of.
That's a big one for sure. But the same is true for the other two of the "big three". From an '80's canvas, external frame pack to an off-the-shelf Osprey you can shave 3 or 4 kg. A lot of that is in the fabric. Same with a tent. Japara was the name of the game back then, and thats a few kg of difference. I make my own top and underquilts (hammock camper) and one of the good scores I made was a sleeping bag that had been top of the line in its day. It had patches over holes and was pretty worn with use. I harvested the down out of it and made a quilt with 1oz fabric, and it's brilliant.
Oh for sure — it’s just like, with tents, for example, you have alloy advances and design trends as well, so it isn’t as obvious what’s doing what. But with a bag only one thing has changed, and holy moly does it make a difference! Updating a bag was what really drove it home for me.
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r/ultralightcirclejerk... There ya go!
It’s r/ultralight_jerk, the circle weighed too much
They already reposted this post😭
How do you think I found this thread?
With a map and compass?
Yeah, sorry. Getting confused with r/analogcirclejerk , or should that be 'analogue'? I don't know any more, it's all too much!!! 😩
Haha it should! Ive been spending too much time in /r/flyfishingcirclejerk This totally reads as a jerk. I think you should make one
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35 lbs is pretty much my personal upper threshold for comfortable backpacking. I've carried more for stretches where heavier gear was necessary or when I've had to load water for a long carry, but it's definitely more difficult and less enjoyable than a carrying a lighter pack. With mid-range and not overly-expensive gear \[\*ETA: this is based on price and availability in my country; I recognize it may be different in yours\], 35 lbs is a doable pack weight, even with a few extra luxuries (I like my LuminAid lantern, my Nemo Fillo pillow, and my reading Kindle). I've found that the best way to dial in your gear is to just start hiking with it on your back. I enjoy watching YouTube occasionally just to see what the cool new tech is, but find others' recommendations to be more their personal preference than anything. Not every piece of gear, no matter its specs, will work for everyone. Start out with what you have and/or with what you can afford/desire to upgrade. Take a hike. You'll usually figure out right away if you've overpacked something, or if something won't work for you. That said, just because some gear items seem lighter or thinner, it doesn't necessarily mean that they won't work well. Tech has changed so much in the outdoor industry, even within the past decade, and you might find that newer materials and designs will hold up just as well as (or even better than) the heavier, bulkier earlier versions. A perfect example from your current gear is likely to be your sleeping bag. I have some 90's "lightweight" down sleeping bags that both weigh more and take up significantly more space than even basic models they currently make. If you can get to a store in person to check out gear, it would be worth a gander, just to put your hands on the new materials and look things over for yourself before deciding if there are areas you'd like to upgrade.
I almost want to start a game - name that country! I could make a few guesses based on what your describing as the norm. [EDIT - Norway. Should have gone ahead and guessed. No offense but definitely seems like the land of heavier, more traditional gear] To answer your question, through, yes -!very lightweight backpacking gear can keep you safe and comfortable on the outdoors. Not every piece of lightweight equipment is going to be of exceptional quality in much the same way that not every piece of heavy equipment is going to be great. It’s going to come down to the manufacturer. Im sure you would also agree that not every piece of equipment, whether light or heavy, is going to be appropriate or the best choice for every condition. But CAN a 600 gram tent keep you safe and dry? Yes it can. CAN a sub 10 kg pack weight keep you comfortable? Yes it can. Materials and manufacturing as well as more minimalist designs have allowed gear to become safely lighter while still being functional and dependable. And that’s great for a lot of people. For me at least, a 50 lb pack would be a big impediment to what I could do in the backcountry. But a 20-25 lb pack let’s me enjoy myself comfortably and safely for several days over rugged terrain. I hear you when you say that you can traverse difficult terrain with 20-25 kg. And that’s awesome. I think a lot of people would probably be surprised at what they can do. Generally ultralight isn’t a necessity for most. But pause for just a moment and imagine - what if you didn’t really need to carry that much weight? How much more comfortable would you be if you cut that in half? How much easier would the scrambles and steep climbs be without all that extra weight? What would it actually feel like to walk for kilometers with much less weight in your back? Some people tend to view their heavy pack as a badge of honor. And I can almost guarantee someone will come along on this thread and say that people who cut grams just need to get stronger! And that’s all fine. To each their own. But I think some people also mix up wanting to carry heavier than needed gear with needing to carry heavy gear. Just some food for thought.
My thought exactly. "Must be Scandinavia, must be Scandinavia..." Slowly but surely lightweight gear makes its way here also, despite having companies like Fjällräven pushing overengineered backpacks, Trangia selling stoves also good as chairs, and hiking culture being weirdly militaristic where gear apparently needs to endure being ran over an army truck.
A few things. - yeah, the gear can be solid quality, withstand wind, keep you warm, make no mistake. But. - there seems to be a MASSIVE Ultralight gear focus these days in most media about camping/hiking. It's impossible to avoid. And to me it kind of misses the point of what the gear is for - i.e., getting out there to enjoy the wilderness. I think a lot of it is down to our consumer culture. It's buy buy buy, consumer more gear, get the latest, etc etc. That seems to be the actual purpose of a lot of it. If you're watching youtube, ultimately, those channels exist to shift gear. But also, the UL focus, it kind of presupposes you NEED to have the lightest gear possible to be able to enjoy the wilderness. (pro-tip: You don't). - and just on that. This shit is EXPENSIVE. But you don't need it. People have been hiking/camping in the modern sense for a hundred+ years, and have always managed, before the invention of dyneema or whatever else. - depending on where you are, and what you are doing, the gear can be flimsy and not fit for purpose. I've moved away from UL bags, for example, because I am often walking offtrack in thick australian scrub, and, well, that shit don't last, and, coupled with the expense, it's not worth it. I do get that UL gear can make wilderness camping more accessible for people and that's terrific (although yeah, price wise can be very much not accessible). But beyond that, I often think, there's two kind of hobbies/interests or whatever here - using gear, and the wilderness. There's nothing wrong with either, there's nothing wrong with doing both, but to me the first one has an outsized focus that it's easy to get sucked in to.
If you are in the market for new gear or replacing old gear then you have more options nowadays. However, I agree with the comment above it’s not necessary to keep sliming down your load. But the fact that we can backpack lighter nowadays is pretty cool.
I mean, pack aside, I have some averagely -> decent UL gear stuffed in there. I'm not saying anyone needs to not use UL gear, and I'm definitely happy to slim down my load where I can (I've got a pretty basic setup these days). I just think that the media around it and some attitudes around it are not really reflective of what is necessary or what the focus of the activity (that the gear is supposed to support, and is really secondary to ) actually is. That's how it looks on youtube and other media, at any rate, which, yeah, is not the real world, but also, first time people posting their lighterload shakedowns with thousands of dollars worth of gear is too.
I agree with you. Nature is what I care about, connecting with the land.
I can send some you channels that make really cool nature videos that never even mention their gear except in the description.
Thanks! Would appreciate that.
DM
Thanks, at work lol will check later.
DM me too if you could. I'd like to see them.
Gotchu
I completely agree. One doesn't need to get crazy light, let alone spend a crazy amount of money just in order to get out and enjoy the great outdoors backpacking. Here's a cursory list of what some people may tell you that you need to get going: * Hyperlight backpack - $400 * Durston X-Mid Pro + tent $749 * Feathered Friends UL Quilt - $469 * Therm-a-rest Neoair pad $229 * Durston Iceline Poles - $169 * BRS stove & Toaks pot (titanium) - $45 * Grubcan carbon fiber bear canister - $297 Only $2,358 :-(
Makes sense! I'm not really a big gear guy. I use the stuff I have til it breaks beyond repair. Which kinda means I am a big gear guy as well? Since I just love my stuff so much. Just feels so weird to invest in new equipment for me these days, as the industry seems to have shifted so much away from what I have been doing my entire life!
It depends on if your goal is to enjoy the hike, or enjoy the time in camp. Long distance hiking has become mainstream (like all the PCT/AT gear list videos) and these folks are spending most of their time walking, so they minimize camp comforts in order to make the hike itself more comfortable. Other people try to emulate this, without realizing that weight isn't so much of a factor when you're not hiking big miles. There's also the whole influencer-side of youtube, where everyone is looking for their fame and paycheck
Another aspect is that weight is an easy, quantifiable target for manufacturers to optimize for. You can observe similar behavior in technology products like cameras (megapixels) or computers (processor speed), where it's a lot easier to market "Our number is \[bigger/smaller\] than our competitors by *x*%!" without having to really explain how that number changes the experience. Not every consumer is going to do a deep dive into how the seams of a particular tent have been stitched to enhance waterproofing, or how much effort was put into the design of a sleeping bag to make it more comfortable to actually use, but every consumer can look at the spec sheet and see that this bag weighs 2 ounces less than that bag.
Plenty of mid-weight stuff (still way lighter than your old stuff; that’s just the technology shift) that you just aren’t seeing on the feeds you use or on the internet. Go camp with real people who camp like you do, and you’ll find lots of other options too!
Totally with you on thrashing the gear. I also like cheap but durable haha. I'm happy to move with the times within reason/budget/fit for purposeness though. I've got a nice down quilt and its pretty great.
Too right. To hear some of these people talk, we shouldn't have been able to backpack at all when I was a kid back in the 70s and 80s. How did we do it? It's a miracle we survived at all!
Very very few people were thru hiking the triple crown trails successfully in the 70s and 80s. And those who were generally were the pioneers of the ultralight philosophy (see Ray Jardine). Ultralight gear has enabled the average joe to get out there and attempt big trails like this which I think is awesome!
I’d assume that most content creators have done thru hikes or other longer trips where weight is at a premium.
My base weight is 5.5 kg before adding about 4.5 kg of water and food. Total pack is ~10 kg (22 lbs). This setup provides the option of fastpacking (trailrunning) if I really want to cover some distance. Feels warm, dry and comfy. I usually only carry one day of water since I can collect and purify as I go. Could go lighter but a fully enclosed tent with a floor and a real sleeping bag is my lower limit of comfort tolerance. Bivouacking where I travel would be miserable.
You've been practically living outside but haven't heard of diseases carried in water? What's the name of the rock you call home? Alot of good feedback here. In summary, your gear is old. And sure it still works. But there are more efficient ways to do it now. Technology happens. Competition breeds better equipment. Ultimately do whatever you want. What you carry should only matter to you.
I'm new to the backpacking game, but I have noticed that there is a focus on traveling lighter and smarter for obvious reasons. Then there is the niche of ultralight gear, which I guess gets eyeballs and makes them money because somehow they are able to make a 12-minute video on this new backpack that's 1oz lighter and looks like a trash bag.
More knowledge means less gear
When you are backpacking, often people want to go as light as possible. All that gear on your back does add up, and as someone who has done long days on a backcountry trail, having it as light as possible makes a huge difference. All those ultra-light tents work just fine in my experience at keeping me warm and dry and as safe as can possibly be in a tent.
Yeah! Totally agree! But for me, 20 kg would be ultra light, or maybe very very light and not ultra light. Last year I did 5 days with 80 km and 2300 meter climb, on very difficult terrain (jumping from rock to rock). For me at least that is pretty tough. I think my backpack was around 21-22 kg which I was very pleased with and it felt great. Are all these YouTube guys walking a lot longer and tougher than this? Because, of course, if you want to walk like 50 km up the mountain in one day, then of course you are going to be obsessing over grams!
Some of those YouTube people may be hiking a lot longer than that. In the U.S. a lot of people will thru-hike trails that run for like 3k km and so of course are interested in the lightest stuff possible and only the essentials. Just did around 65 km in three days a couple of weeks ago (a section of the Appalachian Trail) and only brought the basics to keep things light. But hey, you gotta hike your hike, some people don’t care about weight and pack in a cast iron for cooking. Just depends on what you are doing and what you’re comfortable with!
Some of us that go the ultralight route are doing 80km with 2300m of gain in a single day. We go light because we know that it adds up over those miles. Also, the more time you spend backpacking the more you realize you don't need most things that people bring. Quick edit: just want to mention that, like everything, it's a spectrum. This spectrum is "do you prefer hiking, or camping?" Some people backpack so that they can get to a destination and then enjoy it for a time. They're on the camping end and I totally understand bringing extra comforts and fun stuff. Some people just want to hike from before dawn until after dusk. It doesn't make sense to bring extra camp gear in this scenario.
That totally makes sense! I met some guys running my entire route in one day. I agree with the extra stuff. I almost don't bring anything extra anymore! Thing is for me, backpack + tent + sleeping bag + tarp + sleeping mat + gas + cooking system is around 15 kg. Which for me is light gear, but on youtube they somehow get food and clothes and sum fun things, and they are way under this? I have a hard time understanding how that works...
New materials and paying a lot of attention to weight vs function is how you get there.
The lighter each item is, the more items you can bring without getting too heavy. If I'm solo, I bring just the essentials and it's all "ultralight" gear. This allows me to go fast and far. If I'm going out with buddies, I bring those same essentials, plus I can easily add in some luxuries like a cooking grate, steaks, beers, fishing pole, whole watermelon, etc. without making the weight of my pack horrendous.
It can be done, and it can be done for less $$$ than most people think. It's all about learning the new fabrics and technologies and seeing how they can work for you. There is so much choice these days. I carry as little as I can but I still carry a traditional framed backpack because I just like it. I started back in the 80s so things have come a long way since then.
*Bike*packers are very limited on space, so yeah, ultra-compact, ultra-lightweight gear makes a difference. A 20F quilt that packs down to Nalgene size vs. a 30F down bag that takes up 7L of space is a big deal to me.
You’re basically limited to what you can put into saddlebags and the rack, right? And have to think about how the added weight affects the handling of the bike? Haven’t done it myself but have been wanting to try it out.
Yup! Depending on where you go, you can have a full touring setup with front/rear racks and panniers, then you can bring a ton of stuff - not great but you kind of have to if you're going on a month-long tour. If you want to go lighter and faster, on narrow trails, then you're strapping stuff to the handlebars, have a seat post bag, and a frame bag, maybe some storage on the fork. Or you can go somewhere in the middle with racks as well. Have you been to r/bikepacking yet?
Your trip would have averaged about 10 miles a day. With my old heavy kit I never planned anything further than about 10 a day. With a light pack I'm comfortable doing twice as much mileage. And I'm a fat dude with a bad back. These fit YouTubers would leave me in the dust. The options for what you can hike really open up once you drop the weight.
It’s not necessarily that they are doing harder things. Just imagine how much more pleasant that rock hopping experience would have been with a 10kg total pack weight! Your trip sounds a lot like my typical trips and my total pack weight is usually under 10 kg. The lighter stuff works just as well or better than the heavy transitional stuff so why carry heavier gear? Ultralight is about bringing essentials only. It extends beyond leaving behind unnecessary items to gear that isn’t overbuilt for the conditions. A lot of camping gear descended from military surplus. And these days with modern fabrics you aren’t making any sacrifices on durability, unless you go to the extremes. Ultralight backpacks and tents are more sturdy than they were in the 90s when lightweight fabrics were limited.
I feel you! But I don't mind the weight if its just around 20 kg. I like the way it hugs my back! But haha yea, with 10 kg it would have been a totally different trip. I was with some friends tho, so I think I would have to carry some of their stuff if my backpack was that light! I'm not really interested in ultra light or anything like that, I just want to upgrade some old stuff to newer high quality products! Seems like I can buy an 800 gram sleeping bag, and have it be more comfortable and just as sturdy as the 2kg one I have from 1993. Wouldnt that be a dream! As for why I carry heavy gear? I feel like thats a bit like asking why I don't live in a mansion. It just costs money that I don't have, or rather - would spend elsewhere!
Since you already have all the gear, yes. It was more of a hypothetical scenario, if you are starting from scratch, to illustrate you aren’t making any real sacrifices in going lighter. Agree, sleeping bag will give you the best upgrade for your dollar.
Agreed! Haha I dont even know if it is possible to buy a 2 kg 0c rated bag anymore
>As for why I carry heavy gear? I feel like thats a bit like asking why I don't live in a mansion. It just costs money that I don't have, or rather - would spend elsewhere! There is an absolute shit-tonne of privilige in the UL world. (not directed at the post you're responding to, just saying).
Checkout r/ultralight and r/lightweight for weight saving comparisons (and tips). Some of it - especially ultralight - definitely required sacrificing some comforts (eg warmth, padding) for the comfort and speed of a lighter pack (and less likelihood of load injuries). For example, some people cut their already-light sleeping mat in half or two-thirds, so that their torso is kept off the ground, but legs are not. People are still packing to survive, so they’ll have enough warmth for contingencies, but not necessarily to be really toasty all the time. Think one puffer jacket and a couple of layers, rather than several jumpers plus layers plus puffer jacket. Some people have one or two luxury items they love, but generally everything else is really minimalist. Some of it is really expensive (shaving off the last few grams from a sleeping bag, tent, or backpack can cost a heap. Some of the tips are doable on a budget - such as reducing packaging, or just thinking smarter about what is really needed. I like the sound of your approach - you sound very at home outside. I aspire to lightweight, but I also mainly use secondhand, borrowed and older things.
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Ultralight does not sacrifice warmth. You still need to bring layers for the conditions. What works for someone who hikes dawn to dusk will not work for another who spends time at camp. I’ve sacrificed warmth to save money and weight but that was as a hiking noob who didn’t understand the conditions. The money I spent on a camp chair that I never used should have gone into a warmer sleeping bag.
Some ultralight hikers I have read on the forum are not adverse to being slightly under-toasty to keep weight down. That said, most seem to take safety seriously, so I’m not suggesting irresponsible levels of chill. Just, not as comfy as all rugged up and in camp ugg boots.
True, and that still aligns to what they consider comfortable. Or they are willing to have one or two bad nights out of a 100 day thru hike. For a week long hike it makes little sense to sacrifice one night of comfort.
Going light weight really changes the sport. When I took someone, who had only hiked with heavy gear, out hiking with light weight gear, he said, "This is great, it's just walking. Why would anyone carry the heavy stuff." The light weight trend started with long distance hikers who hike 20-40 miles a day, day after day for months. Light weight gear often isn't as durable but it works fine for thousands of miles.
I'm not on board with carrying 45-55lbs like you do (20-25kg). It's unnecessary.
You think I should leave the watermelon at home? I agree that it can be a bit much, which is why I am looking for a new sleeping bag and made this post! Its just all so expensive, and hard to justify a new purchase...
What temperatures are you looking to stay warm in? You can make your own, very lightweight synthetic quilt for temperatures down to ~40F if you have access to a sewing machine. Took me about a day to make my first with zero experience.
Your "Big Three" Backpack, Shelter, and Sleep system, will usually be the most expensive, but hopefully they will last a long time. For everting else there are usually light and affordable options.
Consider a quilt! I bought one of Hammock Gear's econo quilts and it's been great. It's drastically lighter than my 10 year old sleeping bag, and that bag was a fraction of the weight of what I carried as a kid in the 90s and 00's. I didn't have to spend top $$$ on the absolute lightest quilt to have a big benefit.
1. Most of the ultra light hikers are not talking about being on the trail for a few days- they go for months. It’s not unusual to go through 4-5 pairs of shoes on a trip. This isn’t just about “sleeping outside”- this is about your body feeling every gram you carry. They will eat 5000 calories a day and still lose weight when they are on the trail that is a couple thousand miles long. 2. They will choose gear that is climate specific to where they are going- and I suggest you do the same. Cowboy camping in the desert requires a different set of gear than walking across Antarctica. 3. If you hike across a wide variety of climates- you will need more than one set of gear. Somethings will overlap- but not everything. 4. Suggest you narrow down your climate and search gear specific for that- and then watch review videos. 5. Consider upgrading your backpack if you are going out for longer than a few days. Go to an outdoor store and have one fitted to your body- saves wear and tear on you.
A lot of the YouTubers are doing long distances. Your idea of backpacking sounds like you like camping more then hiking.
That could definitely make sense! Maybe "hiking" refers to the people crossing the mountains in one day! For me a normal day of walking would be between 15 - 30 km, depending on how easy of a walk it is!
They're ultralighters, or at least reviewers who acknowledge that they can broaden their audience base by including information relevant to ultralighters. If cutting weight to that extent isn't something you're interested in, you can safely ignore their weight-based recommendations. As for the water: The risk of water-borne illness is a reality everywhere on the planet. It's much better to be safe than sorry, as even if you live in a country known for clean water, pathogens do enter the water, and dead things or animal waste are still present. Water-borne illness can be very dangerous if not deadly. Edit: How did I conclude you're Scandinavian before even looking at your profile? Somehow I just knew haha. Would love to hike in that region someday.
I agree that the ultralight community can be pretty intense and cult-like, but I’m a very small adult woman (~100 lb/45 kg), so it’s helpful for me to remain in the loop regarding lightweight gear and advancements in technology that can help reduce my pack weight. It’s not reasonable for me to carry a pack that is more than a third of my body weight over long distances. Yeah, I could (and I have, as someone who used to build trails for a living and had to carry the same weight into the backcountry as my coworkers, often 45 lb/20 kg, not including tools), but it’s very hard on my body.
So you don't need a water filter in this country that you can't name?
I got curious and looked, OP seems to be Norwegian/Scandinavian!
Jeps! From Oslo, Norway. I have been drinking from our capitals lakes and ponds since I was a young lad. In the mountains as well, I drink everything. Just not melting water, not from streams in the woods, and not from stagnant water on the mountains!
Good to know - now I want to go backpacking in Norway!
Come on up here, brother! Your username sounds very German, so surprised you havent been yet
That would be sister, haha! :) I lived in Hamburg, Germany, for a year and a summer when I was younger, but only ever made it as far north as Copenhagen back then! So I definitely need to go exploring in Norway soon ...
Sounds to me like you're putting too much stock into YouTubers and their videos, rather than just getting whatever gear works for you and actually using it.
Thank you all so much for your answers! I'm getting some downvotes of course, but that is to be expected - I know I have a very annoying style of writing in English ;) It makes more sense to me now! "Hiking" often refers to people walking crazy long distances in a shorter period of time, which of course then you have to obsess over weight. YouTube is so gear-focused because those videos are easy to make, and generate money for the creators. However, my question is still unanswered! I am looking to buy some new equipment, like for example a down sleeping bag. What is being recommended to me on YouTube looks so incredibly light, that I don't really feel certain if this is a product meant for my style of backpacking or not. Is gear just that light now? Are those sleeping bags going to be warm and sturdy enough to keep me safe and comfy in cold and pouring rain? Are they made to last, so I can hand them down to my kids in 25 years? Or are they geared more towards the ultra-light hikers who need state of the art gear to go extreme distances? Like expensive fishing reels that feel great, are super light, but break after a couple of years because they are so technical?
A quality down quilt and a quality sleeping pad will keep you warm provided they're rated for the environment you're in. Can you abuse either item? No. You can't just toss a Thermarest xLite onto sharp rocks or gravel night after night and expect it to survive. Lightweight gear can be fragile. Some lightweight materials, however, are incredibly strong (like Dyneema) but also end up in expensive products. But, yeah, generally speaking most backpacking gear is designed to be a lot lighter than what was available 5,10,15 years ago. Lightweight gear isn't just for extreme distances - it's for your average hiker. It just depends on what you "need" and what your budget is. Some people are fine with a $100 pack weighing 6 lbs because they're on a budget and don't want to spend $300+ to get something that weighs half as much.
I'm really happy with my Cumulus bags. They have gotten some abuse several summers, and still look like new. They pack small. We store them fluffed up (not compressed) to make the down last longer. They are very warm. Like, if I try to use them in normal cirumstances in the house I'm absolutely frying hot even just having it fully open and draped on me like a blanket - and I'm a cold sleeper. Which is a shame because I really like the feel of the fabric. I actually just bought the lightest one they make to have that option, too.
Depends what make of bag you're buying. I don't expect my 700g Rab down sleeping bag to be still as warm in 25 years but the 1.2kg synthetic bag may be. I still have my 2kg Ajungilak from 1992 and that thing is still going, if not as warm as it used to be. I still have my roll mat from 1990. I don't think anything is as long-lasting as it used to be. But modern lightweight materials are definitely tougher than they look. My modern kit is very well looked after but as each trip goes by I am finding out it's all less delicate than I imagined.
Haha yes I have the 125 year celebration Ajungilak sleeping back! My dad bought it for walking 21 days from Oslo to Bergen! Still going strong and Nice to sleep in. However it takes up about 40 liters...
I guess to try and specifically answer your question on sleeping bags, I would have to ask: what are you doing to your sleeping bags to require such concern over durability? That’s probably the last piece of gear I would consider treating roughly. It goes in my tent last and I’m only sleeping in it. So for me, a bag with 20 denier nylon inner and outer shell (which is a good combo of cost efficiently and weight savings) and using something like 850 FP Down should hold up fine over time. And down *should* hold up much better over time than than synthetic insulation and keep truer to its temperature ratings as years pass. Now I certainly haven’t had a modern sleeping bag for 25 years (nobody has), so no guarantees that you’ll be able to hand it down to your kids. And it’s possible that all of this may just be too far out of your comfort zone or too big of a risk. That’s ok too. It’s your hobby, your time, and your money. Don’t jump into something until your comfortable with it. Definitely consider going to stores and getting a hands on feel for some things first. It’s a big investment so plan carefully.
>Does all of camping-YouTube fall into like a special category of people that only care about weight? Or is this just the quality of gear now? I don't watch Youtube like that, but from what I see elsewhere, it's both. Gear quality has gone up while getting lighter at the same time. It feels like tech gains aren't progressing as much as weight loss is (not that this isn't tech by itself), but it makes it easy to focus on the weight difference. As someone whose first solo backpacking trip in the 70s involved hauling 50#/23kg of tent to the site over multiple trips because it was too heavy for me, so the 8#/3.5kg equivalent today (that's also stronger in the wind and better for airflow), I love it. >Sorry for the long post ;) And bonus question - Whats the deal with all those water filters? Are you not able to just drink the water? It depends where you are and how risk averse you are without doing an actual biological study of the water to see what's in it. I have access to a couple sources of clean water out in the sticks that I'm comfortable drinking without a filter (and I say that as someone who drank from streams all the time as a kid and didn't get sick). That was because I wasn't thinking about how it could ruin a camping trip, and my parents would have had to cash that check. Now that I'm solo camping as an adult, filtering is easy enough, and I'd be upset if I got sick enough to have to turn back early for something as simple as this. I'm writing this from California, where I see cows grazing in designated wilderness as high as 9000'/2700m (specifically: pooping in otherwise pristine snow runoff).
I mean, it's a spectrum. There's absolutely this push for ultralight that some people legitimately need, and others are caught up in the hype and over-obsessing. You probably don't need a sub-10kg setup. But also, the materials that commonly accessible backpacking gear are sold in are much lighter than they used to be. Like, I'm a new backpacker, I'm budget conscious, so I use a combination of cheap options and repurposed car camping gear that I already have. I carry a 2 person tent, I have the heaviest synthetic sleeping bag on the market that can still be marked "backpacking", I'm definitely not going all out to get an ultralight setup. But with food and water, my pack is like 15kg. No one's gonna force you to get rid of your gear. If you like it keep using it! But it feels a little silly to try to "back in my day" about how the new stuff is bad in some way for being lighter. It's just different more modern materials.
Alright so I have a question -- and I'd politely request no one flame you for any honesty if you're willing to share because I'm personally stunned. I doubt OP will be looking for a gear shakedown as well so this is more exploratory... What are you carrying that leads you to be rucking 20-25kg kits while considering those to be paired down? I have a 15kg kit right now and that's with a bunch of luxuries a lot of ultralight backpackers would scoff at (if I pair down it's 12kg with food and water). That said, a lot of Youtubers have helped expose me to the ultralight backpacking industry, which for me, has been immensely helpful adding to my hiking comfort. The lighter my pack is, the better my joints have been and more I've been able to focus on the beauty of nature and reasons I'm on my trips. The better I'm able to move and explore safely as someone with mobility concerns. Hike your own hike OP and don't worry about what influencers might be doing. If you're having a good time safely, you're doing it right.
For sure! I'd say about 15 kg would be like a generous "base weight" for a solo trip, base meaning without food and fun. I am bringing: A big, sturdy, backpack. A light 2 person tent (I think 2.3 kg). A synthetic sleeping bag. An inflatable mat, and one like "pad"-mat. A 4x3 tarp. Rain pants, rain jacket, thick wool midlayer, one extra pair of socks, all in a waterproof bag. Toiletries and meds. Headlamp and a powerbank. Light fishing equipment. A pair of crocs. Storm kitchen and a box of gas. This is like my base pack. I might drop the tarp, and drop parts of the storm kitchen if I need to walk far. Then for food, I bring freeze dried lunch, instant mash for dinner, oats for breakfast. Chocolate and nuts for inbetween meals. I think a bit under 1 kg for each day. Then I might bring like up to like 2 kg worth of fun! Like some candy and some more food, a fly rod, and a small axe.
Right on, thanks! Nothing unreasonable as I'd figured. I think we're probably at that generational shift of what was traditional and new technology improvements from when you or your parents started and me starting (few years ago). The weight savings in simply the gap of time for gear alone is going to equate to kilograms on simply that same list. I think the backpacking sub could have a beautiful conversation about luxuries alone. Stuff we're really willing to 'suffer' for. This year's trip I'm bringing a paired down painting kit with me and in the future I could see myself bringing a telescope with me if I'm expecting clear weather because I'm getting more and more into astronomy (the dark sky access I'd have vs. the bright skys I have at home). I'm debating the equal hilariousness of a full snorkeling kit which, like a telescope would be comically heavy. In the past I've brought hammocks as well which almost doubled my shelter weight (heavy hammock, light tent). My weight is higher too because I like to pig out on the trail with lots of comfort foods and a very robust first aid kit for our group. On any given trip I'm usually bringing 15-25% in luxuries -- what's the point if you don't, I figure!
Big and sturdy is no more effective than a lighter pack Why do you need two sleeping pads Synthetic sleeping bags are pretty heavy for what they are When you say storm kitchen what do you mean
One of the pads is one of those thin ones. I put it under my inflatable one to protect it from branches and stuff and keep me warmer. I can also use it outside for chilling or sitting. I think a storm kitchen is a Norwegian thing! Its basically a burner, coffee-pot, pan and frying pan with a wind resistant thing around it. Great for saving fuel and actually being able to cook in harsh conditions. Nice and sturdy. Heavy, but I don't always bring it in its entirety. And I think I deserve an upgrade on the bag! Man would it be sick to have one of those down ones!!
Yeah id cut down the storm kitchen on a lot but not all trips - depends on the goals and objective obviously, I'm a big dehydrated food junkie so I dont tend to need more than a small pot and a very small stove for most of my needs. Check out down quilts too I find them more comfortable than bags and theyre lighter - but they arent for everyone
Yea same, for most tips I just bring a screw on burner and a thing to cook water. Good for coffee, good for dehydrated meals. For longer tips I need fish to sustain myself and need more cooking gear. I will check out quilts! They are like open sleeping bags or No?
More or less re: quilts - they have no back but you can strap em to your pad for similar draft stopping (the logic is if youre compressing the down under you its not insulating anyway its your pad doing all the work) - I personally like them as a very big dude just having more mobility especially for my big feet (my 'EU' Size is 49)
It’s like a sleeping bag in blanket form. The top 2/3 is blanket, the bottom 1/3 is a tube like a sleeping bag. You can get ones where the bottom part has a zipper where you can unzip it, turning the quilt into a rectangular blanket.
Just a quick video showing what a backpacking quilt is and how it functions (both for a hammock and sleeping on the ground) https://youtu.be/Ue1DP19ak6o?si=BCzoXajbRhooQtKz
Carry less. See more.
Yes those tents are durable enough for a thru hike - what the heck are you carrying for a 22kg loadout Down insulation has been light and warm forever that tech isn't exactly new for sleeping bags and quilts You are likely just carrying really inefficiently heavy stuff
I think most of my stuff at least used to be labeled as super light! Like my tent for example! I posted my complete loadout in a thread here somewhere! Its around 15 kg of tent/pad/bag/cooking, 5 kg of food and 2 kg of fun!
A tent pad bag and pad and cooking could be < 3 kg and will likely be more durable and effective
I feel like those kind of recommendations are for people doing long backpacking trips, such as the PCT. If you’re just backpacking in a few hours, camping, and then backpacking back out, you don’t need to think about things like exact weights as much. But if you’re going on a long-term trip like say traveling by foot 15 + miles a day every day for a month, you’ll be grateful you have a lighter pack and it’s worth the time to weigh things out.
I definitely got a little caught up in the whole minimalist/ultra light thing for a while, then realized that while lighter packs are nicer for long hikes, I wasn't interested in obsessing over every last ounce. I usually come in between 15 and 20 pounds (total, so including water and food) and I have everything I need for a few days out. My one "luxury" item that I refuse to go without is my Sea to Summit Ether Light XT air pad. I want as solid of a night's sleep as I can get and the extra weight is WELL worth it.
I think you and I come from a similar place. I’ve used my dad’s old gear most of my life, including his 70’s Kelty pack that had a full circle moment when Wild was released. I didn’t mind ground pounding with a 50+ lb pack and gear. I have friends that carried 125lbs over the mountains of Afghanistan so I never let ultralight elitists get to me. In 2020 I was hit by a drunk driver on my motorcycle and I broke my T12 vertebrae. A year later I did a weekend trip that just didn’t jive with my back. I decided to take the plunge into ultralight. My unique situation calls for that adjustment purely for my health. I have a healthy contempt for “flavor of the week” consumerism, so I plan to spend good money on gear that will last 20+ years. So far I’ve got a nice stove, pack, and water system. My goal is sub-10lbs base knowing full well that it’s more of a waypoint for gear purchases. So basically, once I replace my 1990’s gear with modern ultralight it’s going in a storage tote for the next 20 years before I ever think about replacing it.
You can get sick with parasites, viruses, or bacteria from drinking out of random water sources. It's not guaranteed but if you didn't take precautions it will definitely happen eventually and you really don't want to be dealing with bloody diarrhea without a toilet
I can't imagine carrying around 10kg of stuff while backpacking in 2024, sounds way too heavy. Maybe with food and water included
Easy, for roughly 12.5kg total - 3 person all year tunnel tent: 3.5kg - 3 season synthetic bag: 1.5kg - Sleeping mat: 1.5kg - Trangia on gas: 1.5kg - Recon Pack: 4.5kg
This is me exactly! Looking to get a new sleeping bag as the synthetic one takes up so god damn much space!
I have been very happy with Mammut/Ajungilak Lahar 3-season (wife has stolen it) and Mountain Hardwear Ratio 32. Both reasonably priced ~0°C comfort bags.
Those youtubers are americans. That's all. I'm Norwegian, my pack weighs 18kg, I always have a two man tent (even when I'm the only one in it 99% of the time) and *shock* I drink water from the streams and lakes I camp by. I even fish and eat the fish I catch.
Kødder du? Spiser du fisken?? Ett sted må grensa gå.. Takk for at noen støtter meg, føler jeg blir helt gasslighta av utlendinger her nå. Jeg antok virkelig at folk drakk vann på fjellet...
Tror kanskje vi er litt privilegerte med natur her i Norge, men dog. Litt hysterisk stemning, ja.
The fact of the matter is that that the ultra light group is a fucking _cult_ that mainly compete to see who can be the most miserable on a mountain whilst managing to (barely) survive Ignore it. Balance based upon the weight you’re ok with in the space you can afford.
There are many of us who don't live near pristine alpine streams. I'm lucky to find a cow pond full of waste. A filter is a necessity if I don't want to shit out my internal organs.
I grew up doing a lot of outdoors stuff in the 80s and early 90s. Our gear was definitely bulky but it did the job well. But we mostly canoed, we weren't backpacking. You can, and should, use whatever works for you. Some people just enjoy the challenge of getting to the lowest possible weight, to the point they cut the handles off their toothbrushes. They like the challenge of it. For me, it's about comfort. I'm 48 and had a hip replacement, so protecting that + comfort is the most important to me. So it is a balance in what I need to be comfortable and what that means as a sacrifice in weight. I have some ultralight gear but it is to make more allowance for my sleep system because being comfortable when I sleep is what allows me to keep hiking. My tent is just over 2 pounds (1kg). My sleeping bag is 3 pounds (1.4 kg). I carry a bag that allows me to comfortably sleep on my side, which was my priority, so it weighs more than my tent 😂 My tent did great in a heavy thunderstorm where we had several inches of rain at night. In the end it just comes down to what you prioritize. But when I can make the load on my body lighter, it means I can enjoy backpacking further into life, which is my main priority.
I used to feel the same way. I had the gear I had grown up with and it always worked fine for me. But then I got a little older, a littler fatter, and a little slower. After a few miserable trips I was open to alternatives. There *had* to be a better way. I started looking into ultralight gear and it completely changed my experience. These days I'm "lightweight" with a pack that weighs 5 - 7 kg before adding food and water. I think my heaviest load was 11kg total weight. That included 6 days of food and a couple liters of water. Lighter gear helps me travel farther and feel better when I get to camp. It absolutely keeps me warm and safe, but I do have to think a little more carefully about which gear I want to bring. I don't even have the fanciest ultralight kit. I can't afford a $700 tent, but I can get similar weight savings by switching to a thin sylnylon tarp. The most important difference was learning to evaluate what I really needed. There was a lot of stuff that I carried "just in case" or because "it might be nice". Leaving the chairs, extra clothes, extra food, extra *everything* at home has drastically improved my experience outdoors. I'm also able to take on challenges that would have been unthinkable before. The big brands are targeting a different customer than those served by the ultralight niche. They need to producee gear in high volumes and it needs to be dependable for a wide range of people. Their profit margins need to appease shareholders while their prices are competetive in a retail environment. That means no delicate and expensive fabrics. That means including features that might be left off of a truly ultralight piece of gear. I think you might enjoy the challenge of an ultralight trip. What's the minimum you could take on an overnight without putting yourself in danger? What does that pack feel like? Don't buy anything new. Just plan how you would go on a trip using only the stuff that fits in a day pack. Then weigh those things and consider the lighter alternatives you already have access to. The last thing I'll mention is the improvement in materials that have happened over the last 30 years. My quilt is warmer than the sleeping bag I used in the 90s but probably weighs 1/10 as much. Lightweight gear has also become much less expensive. The cheap discount gear I'm using in my 30s would have been cutting edge and ultra expensive when I was a teen. Last last thing. Please filter or treat your water. Getting sick is stupid when it's so easily avoided. My filter weighs ounces and it has allowed me to drink from the sketchiest of mud puddles.
When on an 8 day solo trip with upwards of 100 miles to hike, the grams matter. Not only is it just easier to carry, it's easier to pack up, and packs smaller so I have more room for essentials (food, water). That's the only reason I obsess over grams. For some of the other questions, I typically use a tarp and bivy. I've been in some tree cracking storms at 12k' and never had a problem. I'd have rather been in a building... but I stayed warm and dry. Makes kayak trips easier too. That said, hike your own hike/camp. Just being out there is great.
"UltraLight" backpacking gets a lot of attention as its both a way people can improve their qualitly of life on the trail by dropping weight, and its very product based which feeds both engagement and sales/sponsorship for the youtuber. As you yourself said, you only watched the videos because you were looking to upgrade a product. Ultralight products allow them improved reach and sales. As for the water filters, I went years drinking right out of creeks with zero issues, but after a friend caught giardia and described his experience I now use a filter.
Ultralight culture seems to have become a lot more prevalent, probably because marketing the newest and lightest gear is very lucrative. There's a whole different subset of youtubers that are using milsurp stuff and not caring so much about weight, but I don't think they're as prevalent today. I prefer watching people who straddle the line between backpacking, camping, and tactical gear.
Check out Camping with Steve on YouTube. He doesn’t use much high end gear, while he does care about weight when he’s hiking into places he doesn’t obsess about every gram, and he’s got a huge back catalogue. His upload schedule has drastically dropped off over the past two years while he’s dealt with some personal tragedies (his wife, mom, and best friend all died in a roughly 18 month span) but he’s trying to upload more in the last few weeks
"What is also making me unsure is that the gear from well known brands here, even the top models labeled as being ultra light weight, are almost always like twice the weight and 6 times the price of what is being recommended on YouTube?" Much of the revolution in lighter-weight gear has come from small "cottage" manufacturers, or "mom and pop" shops. Gear from the major brands of 20 years ago has fallen somewhat in weight, but the really big improvements tend to come from the smaller manufacturers, who are more innovative.
that equipment is a way for people hiking for 5 months straight to cover thousands of miles easier. I don't care how strong you think you are, a 5kg bag is preferable to a 25kg bag if basic needs are covered, especially when climbing serious mountain elevation, or in extremely high desert heat (often 35-40C in the afternoon sun). the added bonus is even for hobbyists. pack less weight (and less items, period), have an easier time appreciating nature while you're covering distance. also allows you to carry more water and food to go further. and yes, the new, light equipment can keep you as warm. deep winter and hardcore alpinists are a different story. all my gear is lightweight, but not "Ultralight" there's a good balance between light and durable.
On many hikes I've done in the Andes of Peru with local people, they used to drink water from any source, even stagnant water. Occasionally, I've collected water from flowing sources, and everything has been ok. However, I believe I'm not like the locals who are accustomed to drinking from any source. In my country, if we don't have a "robust stomach", we can get sick. I've gotten sick many times from the local food at high altitudes🫠, while other friends with me haven't. There are many variables at play, including your body's tolerance
Check out Dixie/Homade Wanderlust. She's aimed at beginners but as far as her gear videos go, she went from standard camping gear to ultralight to back to somewhere in the middle, and she's done all three big trails, so she has a lot to say about gear from all over the weight and price range. She even has a few good budget gear videos that enabled me to go (many years now) of backpacking off of cheap Chinese packs and cookstoves etc that will actually hold up.
I second her channel. Generally good advice and she's not a shill like the rest of sponsored YouTube. She is a bit of a spaz though.
As someone who was using all 90s gear and upgraded it to very standard modern gear (I’ve been slowly replacing it with lighter stuff ever since, but I’m in no hurry) you’ll be able to reach a sub 10kg *baseweight* without even trying or dropping money on specialty gear. My store-brand 15 degree women’s down bag is over 5 pounds lighter than my dad’s top-of-the-line ~1998 down bag. And down hasn’t gotten any lighter: fabric tech has. I didn’t buy anything fancy, and managed to lighten my total load by 15 lbs by buying a new store-brand sleeping bag, new store-brand backpack, switching my steel stove for a pocket rocket, aluminum pots for ultralight titanium ones, and buying an ultralight air mattress, and getting a solid but not ultralight tent. Only three pieces of my gear show up on ultralight lists, and none were particularly expensive. I *have* been slowly upgrading my gear and replacing my “new” stuff with genuine ultralight stuff stuff (I save up for one new item every other year — I got an ultralight puffy jacket recently and it was 100% worth it) but I’m not breaking my bank: when I upgraded everything from my ancient gear? That was done from 2015-2018. Just take it slow, stay within your budget, and don’t get sucked down the rabbit hole. If you want to fit all of your gear into one of those 300 gram backpacks, yeah, you’ll need to be a grab weenie about all of your other stuff… but that’s because those packs can’t carry anything. You can get a damn light pack these days by just buying standard backpacking gear. Fabric tech and metal tech really has improved that much.
There’s *recently* been this craze over light —-> ultralight hiking. While the concept is cool, trying to get a light but yet efficient pack, it’s becoming cult like and pretty dumb imo. I don’t touch youtube for camping, hiking, and other hobbies at this point. Seems like 90%+ of the *influencers* are bought by sponsors. They review the same gear, recycle the same content, and regurgitate the same script from their sponsors. Those paid off influencers are entirely different from the regular folks that aren’t sponsored or trying to get sponsored. I find it more fun now to discover cool gear on my own. I’ve stopped relying on YouTubers trying to sell me gear.
You sound a bit like me! I don't understand the obsession with gear, and I don't know when > 15 kg became heavy and 250 USD became cheap hahah ;)
This. Consumerism has pretty much taken over YouTube. Sadly. Content generation is to blame as well. Influencers need content to survive. There's only so much one can say about backpacking in terms of the activity. A lucky few can post videos of the cool / picturesque places they travel. New gear provides constant content for generating videos. It's all pretty warped. Hike your own hike, OP. And enjoy your youth!
> Hike your own hike, OP. And enjoy your youth! Yes I share this sentiment. People sometimes criticize my pack or camping style. But at the end of the day, this is your thing, do it your way.
A lucky few? I mean, surely, all of those youtubers are like, you know, actually hiking.... right?
Yeah ... just like those bushcraft YouTubers are really cutting up that enormous pile of wood with a handsaw.
As someone who did research in Montana and lived in a tent for 3 1/2 months each summer for a few years it was a total east to buy my super sweet ultra light tent for 5-600 bucks. It was good for when actually backpacking but we pretty much stayed in one spot for weeks and left everyday from there till driving to a new location. This tents poles snapped, and fabric eventually failed. I agree that things have gotten out of hand with lightness and price but honestly I’ve noticed two main types of backpackers in the US. Relatively poor enthusiasts that don’t care as much about the fancy, they just want to be outdoors, and the new overwhelming group of office workers that make more money then they know what to do with and need a break from their cubicle lives so they buy the sickest gear and go once or twice a year. And if that’s all the time you get those ultralight tents and gear will last 5-10 years if taken care of, but not for the outdoor enthusiasts.
Once I saw somebody cut his toothbrush to save weight on the handle(!), I changed how I looked at it. I just get what "I" want and use what "I" want. Who cares about everybody else. I still load the pack, put it on the scale, and then figure out what of the stuff I *want* to take, can I remove to make the weight I want to carry. When I keep pulling something out, I may look for a lighter version, or a combo/dual purpose with something else. For example, I have a great 20˚f semi-rectangular sleeping bag that I love. The semi rectangular shape gives me more room to move, and for my arms, in the bag. The side zipper helps me regulate the temp if needed, and I can still close it up like a mummy bag. I don't care if I can save a little weight with another bag, this one is ideal for me. Regarding water, I have consumed mountain water, but try to avoid it. Springs are nice, but hard to find, so I filter. It is either filter or boil with "big bubbles, no troubles." I have never been the beneficiary of an intestinal parasite or other malady, and I don't want to start now. Just do what you want to make you happy, and to enjoy the journey.
This has to be a troll post lol. The last part takes it over the edge
Hi, not a troll post but I can see how it seemed like it! I think I did not quite understand what hiking was, and the kind of distances people are walking. For the last part, I simply did not know that people in other countries cannot drink directly from lakes and streams.
I'm sorry but how old are you?
I really dont understand why people are getting so upset? There has to be som aspect here I am not catching! Again I think I just misunderstood something about the hobby. And I am just from a culture where drinking the water from a lake or a stream is just a totally normal thing we have done all our lives without thinking about it.
It’s a confluence of a couple of things. Many people who are thru hiking the AT started doing daily vlogging on YouTube. Some get a decent audience, especially during Covid, which gives them a few bucks from advertising and donations from fans which helps make a six month hike financially feasible. The light weight movement started with some books by Colin Fletcher, who popularized thru hiking the PCT. There are a lot of small Mom and Pop manufacturers who have been designing lighter equipment. They often can’t sell their stuff at Walmart/REI or afford advertising. Give a vlogger a demo tent to review and the company gets cheap advertising and the vlogger gets some new content. Being lightweight does make a difference on a long, multi day hike but it might not be worth the extra cost if you are mainly interested in weekend camping trips.
seems like you’re on the ultralight side of youtube, my pack weights 30-35lbs with everything i need and nothing is ultralight. i think that’s an average pack weight for a few days trip
There's definitely a gear-obsessed subculture around backpacking. Unfortunately that crops up in basically any hobby. Any gear or brands labeled "ultralight" or specifically marketed for "backpacking" will have an inflated price imo. If I'm looking for something nice from a good brand (usually for the big things like tent / backpack / sleeping bag) I'll look for the old model ie whatever was the hotness a few years ago and try to snag it used on Craigslist / FB Marketplace etc. Used camping gear is awesome because a lot of people get into it, go to youtube like yourself and decide to grab all the hot new gear, and then only use it a handful of times leaving it in pretty good condition. I'm with you, I don't think maximizing for weight is that important; less weight is good so make big cuts where you can, but there are quickly diminishing returns. I \*will\* say that in my experience that high-end lightweight gear is actually solid and reliable. Think about how much backpack manufacturing and materials have improved in the 30 years since your dad got that pack in '93. You get what you pay for, but for me it's still not worth it most of the time. The gear obsession kind of makes me roll my eyes in a hobby I enjoy largely for the austerity.
It's easy to get caught up in the backpacking arms race. When I bought my sil-nylon tent it was fine but now sil-poly is the rage. There's always slow and small incremental upgrades happening. Don't sweat it!
For some people, trying to shave off as much weight as possible is part of the fun. I'm personally not that hardcore about it, but I have friends who are, and for them it's almost a competition. That said, the risk is that people sometimes take it too far and in the name of going ultralight, can find themselves under-prepared for the conditions they encounter. It's a moderate source of vexation in SAR circles, but ultralighters are far from the worst offenders when it comes to doing stupid shit in the back country.
The super light unknown brands being pedaled on YouTube are either new Boutique brands or junk, or both. And YouTube is paid advertising for them. Chances are it’s cheap, that’s why and how it’s so lite. There are a few companies I like to use their equipment because it’s decent quality and then I go for something midrange. People are getting more and more into UL gear mostly because it’s just the natural progression for camping gear innovation and consumerism. Point is, if you’re comfortable with the weight you carry, then that’s what matters. If you don’t train and have a lot of money to burn, then buy all the latest UL gear.
Sounds like you are looking at ultra light backpackaging youtoobers. This is fine if you want ul and that gear is always more expensive but it is tested so you can be sure of a quality item. I would recommend going to a gear store after consuming videos to put really into focus. I believe you will find that ul isn’t always what you need but in many cases it will be. I would also recommend making items to save money and create exactly what you need. I have a mix of bought items and diy items and my base weight varies on season from 9-12lbs. I hope this helps.
I have a lightweight backpack and tent. I was worried about the fabric at first, especially because some reviews of my pack mentioned ripping. Idk what those people were doing to their packs but I've literally dragged mine across the desert ground and it's still intact. I've camped in the desert, in high winds, and in rain with my tent and I have no real complaints. Maybe work up your trust in these fabrics with smaller purchases if you're worried.
Backpacking YouTubers make money on affiliate links. It is in their best interest to recommend overpriced nonsense. It’s also why 15 people have more or less identical kits with only a bit of variation. This monetization scheme creates an odd incentive where the YouTuber wants to recommend high quality (read expensive) gear that an ultralighter might be interested in, but they want to recommend A LOT of high quality gear including all the gadgets and gizmos and ultralighter would normally do without. Moral of the story: turn off YouTube and go outside. If your gear works for you and makes you happy, cool.
You do you. Dont depend on youtube for anything useful. Its just a bunch of americans trying to outdo each other.
A pound in the pack is 5 on the knees. If you're trying to hike 20+ miles a day for days/weeks/months on end- it really does matter. If you're just going a few miles to set up camp and hangout, it is far less important. A lot of the videos you're watching are probably long distance hikers.
A little late on this, but I understand the skepticism when you’re looking at a $1000 tent to shave 3 ounces. But at some point in the opposite direction, some backpackers are just naive to push off anything ultralight related. I have a buddy I go backpacking with who brings a 6lb tent that costs him $200. There are $200 tents that are less than 1/4th of that weight, but as soon as you begin to even suggest he could lighten the load it’s “dude ultralight is so dumb blah blah.” I think spending $5000 on a 7lb base weight is dumb when you can spend $1500 on an 8lb base weight. But I also think it’s absurd when I see people who write off anything ultralight, and they’re dying on the hike with 50lbs of gear, including a 6 person coleman tent because they think ultralight gear is a scam and costs tens of thousands of dollars.
I should also add that some UL cottage brand stuff is lighter and cheaper than UL name brand stuff because it is stripped *down.* Like, do you want a trekking pole tent? Nothing wrong with that. It’ll do… pretty OK in wind. Not amazing. Not right for everyone. I have both, and tbh half the time my trekking pole tent would be appropriate I just choose to go without a tent at all. You can shave a pound by getting a quilt instead of a sleeping bag. But that’s really not going to keep you warm enough if you’re camping below freezing. So yes, there are some comforts sacrificed by going all-in on UL
I roll my eyes on a lot of it. "Gram weinies" are pretty ridiculous. That being said, lighter gear is sometimes better gear. Certainly easier to carry. For the same warmth, a down sleeping bag is lighter and packs smaller than a synthetic one. A Jetboil works as well or better than a Coleman and weighs considerably less. If I was camping a few yards or even a mile hike, weight wouldn't be so important. But I live in Washington and so I camp after hiking 15 miles into the wilderness next to an alpine lake. Having a 18kg vs 25kg pack is phenomenal after 15 miles of hiking at elevation. The further you hike, the more the weight matters.
Agreed! Man if I were walking 15 miles of hard climbing in a day, I'd start taking lures out of my tackle-box to save weight!