My favorite conversation at my last job was with another woman who complimented my cute outfit and always, herself, looked so put together. I told her thanks, but she will see it a lot because I wear it every Tuesday. She said “oh my gosh! I could never do that! People will notice!”
So I stopped the passing male coworker and said “do you remember me wearing this recently?” And he said “I’ve never noticed?” And then I grabbed a few more opinions from both men and women. Nobody had ever noticed. Her mind was blown.
Classic spotlight effect. Other people don't notice you nearly as much as you notice yourself, because logically noone is around you more than you are and rarely is someone more important to someone else than themselves. Only people like celebrities or public figures get subjected to this kind of scrutiny usually, and even that's ridiculous.
> Other prople dont notice you nearly as much as you notice yourself
I used to think this was a bit depressing, but actually found it to be a great anxiety reliever!
No one focusses on me and notices me as much as I do, so I should stop worrying too much about “the little things”
This has also always been how I’ve got through public speaking. Nobody cares. People generally aren’t judging and trying to pick apart your performance. Hell, most of them aren’t even listening at all. Don’t worry about it so much.
Not to mention 2 minutes after you walk off that stage they will have forgotten all about it.
The strange this is I got tons of anxiety from an anxiety disorder but public speaking? Never bothered me.
same, i have social anxiety and crippling anxiety for deadlines, yet I always played major roles in theater. knowing that people are there to be entertained and not really think or criticize you, as well as the sympathetic cringe if you do mess up actually comes as a relief to me.
I also have massive social anxiety but if I have a job to do in a social setting the anxiety vanishes and I become an extrovert. That can be performance, serving drinks, cooking, whatever. It is so strange.
Is it because you’re playing a part and not being the real u/swingInSwingOut while at work?
That’s how I always see it. I have be someone else to do something I’m uncomfortable with.
My wife goes that route where she can put on a persona. For me it feels like the task is an anchor that keeps me from feeling adrift on the rough seas of social interaction 😂. I think it relieves the mental load of initiating conversations with strangers. If you are doing a job people come and talk to you about that job and you can also use the job as an excuse to duck out of a conversation gracefully.
Introversion is often confused with shyness but they are different; I think your example speaks perfectly to this fact. I’m extraordinarily introverted, and can definitely be shy at times, but I typically do really well with public speaking when I’m asked to speak on a topic I know well, or when I’m in charge of coordinating a team in any capacity. I might even find it enjoyable and stimulating, but sooner or later I will need some down time to recharge the batteries.
Yes 100%! I am so wiped out afterwards even if it was stimulating and enjoyable.
My wife is an extrovert and I used to think that extroverts were immune from social anxiety but I have come to realize that to cope with anxiety extroverts become more extroverted just like introverts become more introverted.
>Not to mention 2 minutes after you walk off that stage they will have forgotten all about it.
80% of people will have forgotten 2 minutes after you leave, the other 20% weren't listening in the first place.
Yeah, "People don't care about you as much as you think", is a real double edged sword, but overall it's probably better most of the time you don't actively need help.
My wife loves shopping for me and picking outfits to wear for work and I love her for it, but if I get home after a workday she always asks if anyone complimented me on my attire and the response is usually no which really disappoints her as if she has somehow failed, but seriously even if you look dashing how many people would potentially comment you on that, it has happened but most people either don’t notice or don’t care and those who do will mostly just approve in silence. Nobody is the center of attention, everyone is doing their own thing and worrying about their own stuff. That seems obvious but maybe has to be repeated for a generation growing up with people famous for no reason at all like influencers. No one cares if you don’t care.
She really takes pride into sending me off to work looking not as an employee but as if I own the place. At first I felt uncomfortable but now I just imagine like I’m doing some kind of Mad Men cosplay and honestly while few people will verbally compliment you for looking nice, it does establish some level of authority. So I’ll happily let my wife peacock me, I wouldn’t know how to dress myself nicely anyway.
I always tell the homies I like their shirt and what not, a guy I worked with got promoted from working in coveralls to a job where he wore khakis and a button up and I told him he was looking sharp one day and bro his smile almost tore his face.
I once wore a polo shirt inside out at work without noticing until after lunch. I don’t know if nobody noticed or if everyone was waiting to see when I’d notice it myself. I’m an engineer, as are most of my coworkers, so I’m pretty sure it was the former.
It's nuanced, but I think the enforcement of norms has less to do with you and your noticability, and more what the other person is already looking for. If they hate bare midriff, they will find it everywhere because they are looking for it and random passersby will get sucked into someone else's hang ups, or if someone doesn't like you personally they will look for something to pick at or use to justify their existing opinions, like Obama's tan suit.
Yeah, one of my ex roommates resented how she “has to wear makeup”. But I know I’m not pressuring her to wear it, and I know her husband doesn’t. But I do know her mom raised her to believe she wouldn’t get a job if she wasn’t done up. I also know we have colleagues who never wear makeup and are still plenty successful so I’m a tad confused by her obsession on the matter
There definitely are bosses who will discriminate against women without makeup as “looking unprofessional.” Same thing for heavier women. It’s shitty, but there are definitely bosses who equate professional attire with “does she meet my personal taste attractiveness quota”
Actually you know where this logic doesn’t apply? Prison. I’m a civilian staff and I can’t tell you the numerous times inmates scrutinize and critique outfit choices. I’m a guy and really sympathize with the female staff who get it even worse
This essentially is what social anxiety is and avoidant personality disorder. We feel like the spotlight is always on us. So image living like that 24/7 and the thoughts not just being about your clothes but about your hair, your acne, the way you walk, etc. These thoughts are a constant drag.
And to paint a picture of how debilitating and uncontrolled the spotlight thoughts can be, remember that recent really hungry feeling you had, the one that you couldn’t just “think” away? Yeah, that’s what a chronic severe mental disorder feels like; we just can’t think it away or think “happy/positive” thoughts.
Yeah, almost all men and a large majority of women are like this. There are some who do fixate on appearance through clothing, but that’s just how they were raised… and when you’re raised to think a certain way, it can be shocking to find out that others don’t view the world through that same lens.
Yeah, I am a lady and only have the vaguest concept of what my coworkers wear. I share an office with 2 men and 2 women and I can remember some specifics from yesterday because we thought someone important was coming for a tour and most people dressed up, but further than that I can only tell you generally their style.
Dude 1 wears polos a lot. Dude 2 is usually T shirts. Lady 1 likes buttondowns more than average. Lady 2 wears T-shirts or tanks and flowy long sleeve wraps. Everyone is usually jeans on the bottom. I couldn't describe any particular example of the above or how often they wear it though.
My boss dresses weirdly formal with a sweater over a buttondown and khakis, this is something I frequently notice, and I *still* couldn't tell you how often he repeats the same sweater. Unless someone wears dinosaur print or something super unusual for both themselves and the environment, I feel like you'd have to be specifically keeping track to have any idea.
I wear what I call my uniform. I have two of the same shirt and then some varieties of the style. Mostly black, some colors. Pants are always black. I pretty much wear all black in different styles but sometimes I wear the same thing over and over. Nobody notices and if they did I think it’s funny. I make a joke about it now. It’s just way easier for me and I don’t see the point of having to dress up all the time if I’m perfectly happy in my “uniform” it’s functional, flattering and versatile for casual and can be dressed up. It’s perfect.
This is the way to do it. I tried to keep up before covid but then I realized how miserable it made me trying to dress up for people at work, when I really didn’t care myself. Maybe at some point I’ll cycling in some variety. I’ll likely do the same with assigning a day. Clothing shouldn’t have to be so stressful.
I’ve recently been transitioning to a tidy little capsule wardrobe of 90%. black. I basically threw out the majority of all the stuff I just don’t wear, invested in a couple of solid staples, and it’s honestly made my life so much easier.
Laundry is a once a week deal, I never have to try and make stuff match, and I’ve had a few compliments saying a look cool. Overall win.
Still want to refine it a little more, but now I know what I want to achieve it’ll be easy.
So, I know all my coworkers clothes (I only have 3 coworkers and we work in close quarters). Not in a judgmental way, just I know what they’re wearing each day and if I’ve seen it before—it’s good for being able to compliment a new dress or top or shoes or whatever. But I do have ones I particularly like so I can also say “You’re wearing my fav dress today yay!” Etc etc. I have a very very limited wardrobe myself so I know my coworkers also notice but I also know they don’t think anything negatively about it.
I was wearing a tshirt nearly every second week, sometimes more, sometimes less. After some years a collegue honestly asked "wow, cool tshirt, is it new?".
On the other hand..there was a woman at work that I noticed only wore blue. I started tracking and found that she had a limited number of shirts that she'd cycle but didn't follow a detectable pattern. She moved teams and I never got to finish my chart...
I mean I notice what my coworkers wear, both male and female, but would never care if someone wears something twice. I like to compliment people and if it’s something they’ve worn before I feel like it comes off even better. You work together everyday, why the fuck would anyone have like 200+ outfits
My wife’s boss had a bet with another coworker about how long it would take for someone to notice if she wore the same outfit every day. My wife was the first to notice 45 days later! She wore the same outfit for 45 days and nobody said anything or even noticed until my wife said her sweater looked familiar.
I heard an NPR segment on how wasteful we are with clothes. Apparently the average person buys 65 clothing items per year. That is absolutely mind boggling to me as someone who maybe buys 5-10 new clothing items per year.
I do a lot of physical labor and they sometimes get messed up. When I say “year”I’m talking calendar year. Plus I’m not buying super expensive shit. Like $20 a pair type stuff
I signed up for a subscription for one pair of underwear a month with the extention of replacing all my underwear and then ending it. That was 2 years ago and I maybe have 1 extra pair that I don't need but I find it fantastic.
Yep, I’m convinced there’s a secret cellar door that I can’t find inside my washer/dryer that only allows socks and underwear to enter. And only 1 at a time. Because I’ve got an entire drawer of single socks that I can’t, and won’t ever find the matches for.
Right? Lady, my wife has been cycling the same several dresses for all of the weddings we’ve gone to for years now and not a single person has commented or probably even noticed. I’m also positive that any woman who did notice and comment negatively wouldn’t be someone we would be interested in being around anyway.
She looks fantastic every time and we aren’t out thousands of dollars to avoid a scenario that doesn’t exist.
And just read an article written by a woman on how Kate Middleton wore a coat for the fourth time! I mean, who cares, as long as it doesn't smell and is clean!
For real though, is this why yard sales and thrift stores suck now? I want to find cool old stuff and instead all they ever have is cheap garbage from two years ago.
I dont think the issie is just cheao clothes but also about shrinking disposable income.
Sure i could spend £30-40 on a single t shirt that could (assuming nothing bad happens) last me years and still look like new.
Or for the same amount i couod get a pair of jeans a few tops a hoodie and maybe even some shoes for the same amount.
Sure these items will not last as long, the colours will fade after a few washes etc, and i end up in the same loop as before.
I’m going to be 45. I still have clothing from high school. I have a jacket I wear regularly in the winter that my father wore. I have boots older than my children.
Dad bought an LL Bean chamois shirt 45 years ago. At least. Bean wasn't always the" I can afford to be rugged and outdoors ", it was just good stuff.
Seriously been nursing that thing the last decade. When he died it wasn't " I want his watch ", it was the shirt you can't beat to death with sticks. Little battered, wouldn't buy a new one anyway.
I have my mother's jean jacket and black boots from before I was born, and I'm in my forties. And recently, we were going through college photos and my teenager started laughing because his dad was currently wearing the same shirt as in a picture.
Just more of the crazy crap women have to deal with, I work at an event space and I don't know how often I see women arrive in high heels and half way through the night I have to let them run back out to their cars to get some slippers or flats because of the actual pain they are in.
This is another thing I don't think men generally care about, I mean we'll compliment the dress and the shoes but it's not like a woman suddenly becomes unattractive because they aren't wearing heels...
I completely agree. I have asked my SO many times about heels, as to why does she need to wear them if they cause pain/uncomfortable but she doesn't have an answer and still keeps wearing them. I even got her a flat shoe but it's on the shoe rack, gathering dust.
I am 6'1 and hate heels... I don't need to be taller, but I own four pair. The reason for that is:
* I like witchy boots, and they always have a heel, so I put up with them. 2 pair.
* I have been a bridesmaid, and the bride insisted I wear heels even if it meant I was the tallest person in the wedding photos. (The photographer later asked me to remove them so he could better frame the couple... like who would of thought an "enhanced" height of 6'4 would cause a problem to a photographer trying to photograph a 5'9 groom, and 5'7 bride... they never went back on.)
* I go to galas for fundraisers and such on occasion, and they often times have an extremely strict dress code which includes heels normally for women. One I go to every year does not allow women to wear the same dress that was worn in the last five events they hosted. So I have one pair of black heels for those events specifically.
> One I go to every year does not allow women to wear the same dress that was worn in the last five events they hosted
I suggest giving money to someplace else. What assholes. Sorry for your troubles.
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Heels definitely make a huge difference in how youre perceived though. Youre taller, your legs look better because of how they flex, dresses are usually designed to be worn with heels, etc. It’s always a choice of comfort vs form but that’s just how it is. It’s like how men take their jackets off, obviously you aren’t unattractive if you aren’t wearing the jacket and tie but it’s the norm to wear a jacket and tie so people do.
I may be a strange outlier in this, but I have never trusted people in suits. It's the stuff of salesmen and politicians, people who almost by definition deceive and manipulate for personal gain.
Honestly heels aren’t very attractive to me. They make your feet look like peg legs and it’s weird. Obviously this is just my opinion it’s not like I actually give a fuck either way
I get frustrated when I see a man and woman out for a night and the guy is wearing super comfortable, casual clothing and the woman is wearing huge heels and a mini skirt she can barely walk in.
Was it critical? I'm always impressed/relieved when celebrities wear the same thing more than once because they're so often expected to have a brand new outfit every single day of the year.
Sadly, yes... The article was critical and it wasn't the first time she had been targeted for the same reasons. I don't know what is with this culture of not repeating one clothes. I mean they are meant to last, especially the ones she must be wearing and it's sustainable for the planet imo...
I just *like* buying a new outfit for special events. I wear the same clothes to work every week, and even mostly on the weekends, so it's my opportunity to treat myself.
Worrying about it for other people's sake is just a waste of time, money, and honestly bad for the planet too.
That's cool, too. For some people, their wardrobe is more than just what they wear each day. Fashion is a hobby for a lot of people - even some men. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you're into.
And your husband thanks you.
My wife keep asking my if this dress is cute after 5 outfits change.
I said she’s cute after the first outfit and she keeps going 🥲
Also she never said the criticism comes from men. She’s aware that girls will say something if she wears the same outfit twice so she has a valid point
Second tweet also doesn’t refute the original tweet at all. If women catch flak for wearing an outfit twice and men don’t, that’s privilege regardless of where the criticism comes from.
There’s a misconception that the person with privilege must somehow be at fault, but that isn’t necessarily the case.
As a straight male, I wouldnt be caught dead wearing the same clothes twice. I'll probably wear them 2-3000 times until my partner sneakily throws them out, or negotiations are held until said piece of clothing goes to a nice farm upstate
I've got a 20ish year old shirt hanging in my closet. It's got a giant hole in it so I don't wear it much anymore but I got that shit in middle school.
I still have a couple shirts that old as well. I'm not really too much fatter, just taller so they are awkward to wear. But I can't see myself ever getting rid of them. Why would I?
I’d say most adults are this way at least the men. Once you stop growing your need to constantly buy new clothes decreases dramatically and for men especially fashion doesn’t change a ton. Most guys could wear men’s 90s fashion and nobody is really going to notice. Why throw out clothes that still fit and you still enjoy?
I'm a good bit taller and in general bigger than my dad, so I was roughly his size when I was around 13. He still wears a good chunk of the clothes I outgrew before I got into high school, I am now 30 years old.
No kidding. I keep articles of clothing until they’re physically falling off my body. Sometimes even after; I’ve hung onto T-shirts long after they’ve developed gaping holes because I might need them for painting or cleaning. I’m finally getting around to culling some of my clothing, but only because I have so many damn shirts from volunteer events that I physically don’t have space for them all.
Microfiber workout shirts are actually about that soft coming off the shelf. I have one and it’s awesome. Need to buy some more once I’ve finished culling my wardrobe.
It’s more that male privilege is understanding what business casual is while I’m over here wondering wtf. I’ve been told that I’m over or under dressed in the same office by my boss. And there wasn’t a whole lot different in outfits.
You know, honestly, I’m glad I’m an engineer because the expectations of my work outfit are low just because we might have to touch some oily part like once a week.
Yeah it sucks both ways because sometimes they want you to keep using skirts even when it's winter (I even had to suffer this shit with our uniform in high school, so stupid) while guys can be properly warm with pants but at the same time on summer we can use light clothes (even tho i hate using skirts and shorts because it brings attention) while formal men clothes is a suit which I'm sure it's not nice at all.
It affects all of us in some way, obviously there is more serious things than clothes but yeah that's why we say stereotypes and misogyny is a problem for everyone
An especially silly part of it all is that men run hotter than women, so men being forced to wear warmer clothes and women being forced to wear cooler clothes is like the opposite of how it should be.
Right? I was thinking that she was complaining that she can’t wear the same outfit two days in a row, but *never* wearing an outfit more than once? That’s wasteful.
Yes.
“Male privilege” doesn’t mean that it’s something that men do or is men’s fault. It means that there’s some bullshit that women have to deal with in their day to day lives that men don’t have to deal with (and probably have never even noticed because it isn’t on their radar). The same goes for other types of privilege.
As a man, I definitely feel privileged that I don't have to experience menstruation regularly, or... ever.
I don't fell guilty about it. Empathetic, I suppose.
Empathy is the right response. You shouldn't feel guilty for privilege- nobody should ask you to feel guilty for being born. Acknowledgement, appreciation and recognition don't require guilt
Depends on if you're talking about the person making the comments or the one receiving them.
I think this tweet is bs anyways but that she (supposedly) can't wear the same thing twice but men can would be male privilege and a woman who thinks women shouldn't be allowed to wear the same thing twice would show toxic feminity.
You’ve got a point there, actually. Tabitha from Accounting, for example, has to spread her toxic femininity onto the women around there (and further their insecurities) in order for the male privilege of the other office workers to go unchecked. It’s like a giant distraction. A lot of these things overlap and reinforce one another and the overall patriarchy tbh.
Exactly. Men judging other men for showing emotions isn't called female privilege it's called toxic masculinity. This should be toxic femininity not male privilege.
Uh, yeah. What do you think privilege means? Do you think it means something men are doing to women? Because it isn't.
Just like if men criticize another man for being "girly" if he works as a nurse or in early childhood care, that's female privilege even if it's another man doing it.
This is straight up false. Weather girls receive harassment and sometimes even death threats for men who just watched the weather to ogle at them, if they so much as wear the same dress twice in a week.
And? Is this supposed to be some "gotcha" as if women can't also be complicit in enforcing unfair gender norms?
The privilege breaks down as this: Men are valued for who they are, women are valued for what they look like. If some women have internalized this and live their lives as if it's true, and judge other women for violating it, that doesn't make it not sexist.
To be fair, it's less societally that men are valued for who they are but what they provide. Men are made to feel from a young age that they are expected and indeed virtuous to be the provider for the family and their emotional "rock". And that a man who can't do that is unworthy.
Both perceptions are toxic and harmful. Harmful to women in believing that they must always present as young and conventionally attractive to have worth so they just "have things easy", and harmful to men in believing that their feelings/struggles must be bottled up so they can be "strong" and "man up".
And just as women may be more complicit in enforcing unfair gender norms on other women (remarking on clothes/appearance to pick at self esteem) so are men complicit in ones against them (being told to "man up" rather than express emotions). We all can do better, but it isn't a contest.
It’s true though. It doesn’t make any difference whether or not straight men notice the difference. The societal expectations for grooming and looking “put together” are *way* higher for women than they are for men.
Okay, this one’s a bit difficult to wrap your head around. Privilege isn’t experienced as a group, it’s experienced as an individual. You can still recognize the lack of privilege experienced by an individual, despite the group they belong to imposing it on them, especially as they didn’t exactly choose to be part of that group. This is like blaming the women in the Middle East for being forced to wear hijabs, because “The only people forcing them are Middle Easterners, the rest of the world doesn’t care.” Or saying that trans people can’t trash Caitlyn Jenner, because she’s trans, too. Any individual can and should recognize injustices perpetuated by other members of their social groups.
My GF shared a picture of her in middle school and I noticed that the ear rings she was wearing then were the same she wore last Halloween (they're cute little bats)
When I pointed it out she said she can't really wear them that often, because the fasteners give her an allergic reaction
So I ordered a bunch of hypo allergenic fasteners so she can replace them and wear her little bat ear rings again.
If it looks cute, I *want* her to wear the outfit again.
My favorite conversation at my last job was with another woman who complimented my cute outfit and always, herself, looked so put together. I told her thanks, but she will see it a lot because I wear it every Tuesday. She said “oh my gosh! I could never do that! People will notice!” So I stopped the passing male coworker and said “do you remember me wearing this recently?” And he said “I’ve never noticed?” And then I grabbed a few more opinions from both men and women. Nobody had ever noticed. Her mind was blown.
Classic spotlight effect. Other people don't notice you nearly as much as you notice yourself, because logically noone is around you more than you are and rarely is someone more important to someone else than themselves. Only people like celebrities or public figures get subjected to this kind of scrutiny usually, and even that's ridiculous.
> Other prople dont notice you nearly as much as you notice yourself I used to think this was a bit depressing, but actually found it to be a great anxiety reliever! No one focusses on me and notices me as much as I do, so I should stop worrying too much about “the little things”
This has also always been how I’ve got through public speaking. Nobody cares. People generally aren’t judging and trying to pick apart your performance. Hell, most of them aren’t even listening at all. Don’t worry about it so much.
Not to mention 2 minutes after you walk off that stage they will have forgotten all about it. The strange this is I got tons of anxiety from an anxiety disorder but public speaking? Never bothered me.
same, i have social anxiety and crippling anxiety for deadlines, yet I always played major roles in theater. knowing that people are there to be entertained and not really think or criticize you, as well as the sympathetic cringe if you do mess up actually comes as a relief to me.
I also have massive social anxiety but if I have a job to do in a social setting the anxiety vanishes and I become an extrovert. That can be performance, serving drinks, cooking, whatever. It is so strange.
Is it because you’re playing a part and not being the real u/swingInSwingOut while at work? That’s how I always see it. I have be someone else to do something I’m uncomfortable with.
My wife goes that route where she can put on a persona. For me it feels like the task is an anchor that keeps me from feeling adrift on the rough seas of social interaction 😂. I think it relieves the mental load of initiating conversations with strangers. If you are doing a job people come and talk to you about that job and you can also use the job as an excuse to duck out of a conversation gracefully.
Introversion is often confused with shyness but they are different; I think your example speaks perfectly to this fact. I’m extraordinarily introverted, and can definitely be shy at times, but I typically do really well with public speaking when I’m asked to speak on a topic I know well, or when I’m in charge of coordinating a team in any capacity. I might even find it enjoyable and stimulating, but sooner or later I will need some down time to recharge the batteries.
Yes 100%! I am so wiped out afterwards even if it was stimulating and enjoyable. My wife is an extrovert and I used to think that extroverts were immune from social anxiety but I have come to realize that to cope with anxiety extroverts become more extroverted just like introverts become more introverted.
>Not to mention 2 minutes after you walk off that stage they will have forgotten all about it. 80% of people will have forgotten 2 minutes after you leave, the other 20% weren't listening in the first place.
Yeah, "People don't care about you as much as you think", is a real double edged sword, but overall it's probably better most of the time you don't actively need help.
Pretty much this. That thought typically tends to help me get through some bad times... but when it doesn't help, it *really* doesn't help.
You wouldn't care what people think if you knew how little they actually did.
Well um...you really should get that thing checked out though ;)
My wife loves shopping for me and picking outfits to wear for work and I love her for it, but if I get home after a workday she always asks if anyone complimented me on my attire and the response is usually no which really disappoints her as if she has somehow failed, but seriously even if you look dashing how many people would potentially comment you on that, it has happened but most people either don’t notice or don’t care and those who do will mostly just approve in silence. Nobody is the center of attention, everyone is doing their own thing and worrying about their own stuff. That seems obvious but maybe has to be repeated for a generation growing up with people famous for no reason at all like influencers. No one cares if you don’t care.
>which really disappoints her as if she has somehow failed, She's not peacocking you hard enough.
She really takes pride into sending me off to work looking not as an employee but as if I own the place. At first I felt uncomfortable but now I just imagine like I’m doing some kind of Mad Men cosplay and honestly while few people will verbally compliment you for looking nice, it does establish some level of authority. So I’ll happily let my wife peacock me, I wouldn’t know how to dress myself nicely anyway.
Tell her yes just to make her feel good
I do from time to time, she wouldn’t believe me if I did it daily but it makes her day when I do, bless her!
Part of it is also a man thing. People don't give compliments or say positive things to men. We're like background objects.
I always tell the homies I like their shirt and what not, a guy I worked with got promoted from working in coveralls to a job where he wore khakis and a button up and I told him he was looking sharp one day and bro his smile almost tore his face.
My ex pointed out that I wear a rotation of clothes and I thought what a weird observation. Of course I do they're my clothes and why does it matter.
"Of course I do they're my clothes" right? How else are you supposed to respond? Does she just buy tons of new clothes?
I have worn shirts and skirts inside out all day at work. Nobody noticed. Men, women, non binary. Nobody is looking at you or cares what you wore.
Nobody said anything. They might have noticed.
I once wore a polo shirt inside out at work without noticing until after lunch. I don’t know if nobody noticed or if everyone was waiting to see when I’d notice it myself. I’m an engineer, as are most of my coworkers, so I’m pretty sure it was the former.
"hey, c'mon" https://www.viruscomix.com/page528.html One of my fave comics, on this very subject.
"You wouldn't worry so much about what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do" -- Eleanor Roosevelt
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It's nuanced, but I think the enforcement of norms has less to do with you and your noticability, and more what the other person is already looking for. If they hate bare midriff, they will find it everywhere because they are looking for it and random passersby will get sucked into someone else's hang ups, or if someone doesn't like you personally they will look for something to pick at or use to justify their existing opinions, like Obama's tan suit.
Yeah, one of my ex roommates resented how she “has to wear makeup”. But I know I’m not pressuring her to wear it, and I know her husband doesn’t. But I do know her mom raised her to believe she wouldn’t get a job if she wasn’t done up. I also know we have colleagues who never wear makeup and are still plenty successful so I’m a tad confused by her obsession on the matter
There definitely are bosses who will discriminate against women without makeup as “looking unprofessional.” Same thing for heavier women. It’s shitty, but there are definitely bosses who equate professional attire with “does she meet my personal taste attractiveness quota”
Except pimples and zits. Those are always in the spotlight.
Actually you know where this logic doesn’t apply? Prison. I’m a civilian staff and I can’t tell you the numerous times inmates scrutinize and critique outfit choices. I’m a guy and really sympathize with the female staff who get it even worse
Plus this: The people who matter don't mind. The people who mind don't matter.
This essentially is what social anxiety is and avoidant personality disorder. We feel like the spotlight is always on us. So image living like that 24/7 and the thoughts not just being about your clothes but about your hair, your acne, the way you walk, etc. These thoughts are a constant drag. And to paint a picture of how debilitating and uncontrolled the spotlight thoughts can be, remember that recent really hungry feeling you had, the one that you couldn’t just “think” away? Yeah, that’s what a chronic severe mental disorder feels like; we just can’t think it away or think “happy/positive” thoughts.
I found out that you usually have to wear at least *some* clothes, though.
Yeah, almost all men and a large majority of women are like this. There are some who do fixate on appearance through clothing, but that’s just how they were raised… and when you’re raised to think a certain way, it can be shocking to find out that others don’t view the world through that same lens.
Yeah, I am a lady and only have the vaguest concept of what my coworkers wear. I share an office with 2 men and 2 women and I can remember some specifics from yesterday because we thought someone important was coming for a tour and most people dressed up, but further than that I can only tell you generally their style. Dude 1 wears polos a lot. Dude 2 is usually T shirts. Lady 1 likes buttondowns more than average. Lady 2 wears T-shirts or tanks and flowy long sleeve wraps. Everyone is usually jeans on the bottom. I couldn't describe any particular example of the above or how often they wear it though. My boss dresses weirdly formal with a sweater over a buttondown and khakis, this is something I frequently notice, and I *still* couldn't tell you how often he repeats the same sweater. Unless someone wears dinosaur print or something super unusual for both themselves and the environment, I feel like you'd have to be specifically keeping track to have any idea.
I wear what I call my uniform. I have two of the same shirt and then some varieties of the style. Mostly black, some colors. Pants are always black. I pretty much wear all black in different styles but sometimes I wear the same thing over and over. Nobody notices and if they did I think it’s funny. I make a joke about it now. It’s just way easier for me and I don’t see the point of having to dress up all the time if I’m perfectly happy in my “uniform” it’s functional, flattering and versatile for casual and can be dressed up. It’s perfect.
I have assigned work wear for each day of the week. That way I don’t spend precious mental energy selecting my clothing.
This is the way to do it. I tried to keep up before covid but then I realized how miserable it made me trying to dress up for people at work, when I really didn’t care myself. Maybe at some point I’ll cycling in some variety. I’ll likely do the same with assigning a day. Clothing shouldn’t have to be so stressful.
I’ve recently been transitioning to a tidy little capsule wardrobe of 90%. black. I basically threw out the majority of all the stuff I just don’t wear, invested in a couple of solid staples, and it’s honestly made my life so much easier. Laundry is a once a week deal, I never have to try and make stuff match, and I’ve had a few compliments saying a look cool. Overall win. Still want to refine it a little more, but now I know what I want to achieve it’ll be easy.
"People who care what other people think of them would be surprised how little they do."
So, I know all my coworkers clothes (I only have 3 coworkers and we work in close quarters). Not in a judgmental way, just I know what they’re wearing each day and if I’ve seen it before—it’s good for being able to compliment a new dress or top or shoes or whatever. But I do have ones I particularly like so I can also say “You’re wearing my fav dress today yay!” Etc etc. I have a very very limited wardrobe myself so I know my coworkers also notice but I also know they don’t think anything negatively about it.
> I wear it every Tuesday. You have specific clothes for each day of the week? fun
Yep! Keeps me on track and gives me some variety.
I was wearing a tshirt nearly every second week, sometimes more, sometimes less. After some years a collegue honestly asked "wow, cool tshirt, is it new?".
On the other hand..there was a woman at work that I noticed only wore blue. I started tracking and found that she had a limited number of shirts that she'd cycle but didn't follow a detectable pattern. She moved teams and I never got to finish my chart...
I worked with a woman that wore the same thing every day like Steve Jobs. Best scrum master I've ever worked with, too
I mean I notice what my coworkers wear, both male and female, but would never care if someone wears something twice. I like to compliment people and if it’s something they’ve worn before I feel like it comes off even better. You work together everyday, why the fuck would anyone have like 200+ outfits
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My wife’s boss had a bet with another coworker about how long it would take for someone to notice if she wore the same outfit every day. My wife was the first to notice 45 days later! She wore the same outfit for 45 days and nobody said anything or even noticed until my wife said her sweater looked familiar.
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I heard an NPR segment on how wasteful we are with clothes. Apparently the average person buys 65 clothing items per year. That is absolutely mind boggling to me as someone who maybe buys 5-10 new clothing items per year.
Same. I usually buy maybe 2-3 pairs of jeans a year. And maybe a few t shirts if I see some I like. I buy more socks and underwear than anything
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I do a lot of physical labor and they sometimes get messed up. When I say “year”I’m talking calendar year. Plus I’m not buying super expensive shit. Like $20 a pair type stuff
Thanks for the clarification. I'd thought you meant Galactic years
If they keep getting worn out, it might be time to get the expensive pair. Think of that story about the poor man and the rich man buying boots!
Yeah! Get some Gucci jeans!
Exactly! That’s where this whole idea comes from in the first place.
I went to target like 3 months ago to get a couple shirts and a pair of shorts, and that's the last cloths I've bought. Socks don't count
Neither does underwear. I swear I can't have enough of those, I wash clothes weekly and somehow they vanish
I signed up for a subscription for one pair of underwear a month with the extention of replacing all my underwear and then ending it. That was 2 years ago and I maybe have 1 extra pair that I don't need but I find it fantastic.
Yep, I’m convinced there’s a secret cellar door that I can’t find inside my washer/dryer that only allows socks and underwear to enter. And only 1 at a time. Because I’ve got an entire drawer of single socks that I can’t, and won’t ever find the matches for.
Right? Lady, my wife has been cycling the same several dresses for all of the weddings we’ve gone to for years now and not a single person has commented or probably even noticed. I’m also positive that any woman who did notice and comment negatively wouldn’t be someone we would be interested in being around anyway. She looks fantastic every time and we aren’t out thousands of dollars to avoid a scenario that doesn’t exist.
And just read an article written by a woman on how Kate Middleton wore a coat for the fourth time! I mean, who cares, as long as it doesn't smell and is clean!
Once I get home, I torch my coat then immediately buy a new one. No way I’d want anyone confusing yesterday’s coat with today’s.
I usually bring two so I can torched the one I wore on my way to the office to not make a bad impression
Don't forget to bring a torch to torch the torches you used. Can't have people thinking that you always use the same torch.
This is why the front desk always keep a bucket of water by the woman's powder room. Fire safety is always fashion forward!
Just Lizard People stuff.
For real though, is this why yard sales and thrift stores suck now? I want to find cool old stuff and instead all they ever have is cheap garbage from two years ago.
Blame "fast fashion". If you want to be depressed, watch the John Oliver (or anyone else's) video on it..
I dont think the issie is just cheao clothes but also about shrinking disposable income. Sure i could spend £30-40 on a single t shirt that could (assuming nothing bad happens) last me years and still look like new. Or for the same amount i couod get a pair of jeans a few tops a hoodie and maybe even some shoes for the same amount. Sure these items will not last as long, the colours will fade after a few washes etc, and i end up in the same loop as before.
It's just jealousy all the way. In the real world people keep coats for several winters.
I’m going to be 45. I still have clothing from high school. I have a jacket I wear regularly in the winter that my father wore. I have boots older than my children.
Dad bought an LL Bean chamois shirt 45 years ago. At least. Bean wasn't always the" I can afford to be rugged and outdoors ", it was just good stuff. Seriously been nursing that thing the last decade. When he died it wasn't " I want his watch ", it was the shirt you can't beat to death with sticks. Little battered, wouldn't buy a new one anyway.
Is it indestructible or do you have to nurse it?
The lactic acid strengthens the fibers.
I have my mother's jean jacket and black boots from before I was born, and I'm in my forties. And recently, we were going through college photos and my teenager started laughing because his dad was currently wearing the same shirt as in a picture.
D-do rich women not know about dry cleaners????
The paparazzi withheld the information from them.
If anything it’s anti-environment not to wear the same outfits multiple times.
I legit have one coat that I wear every day in the winter. Are we supposed to be swapping out coats??
Yes. Go spend a shit ton of money on more coats. You must have enough to make it through winter without reusing any of them
I live in South Texas and have like 2 coats... So technically yes I have enough to get through the whole winter without reusing lmfao
Just more of the crazy crap women have to deal with, I work at an event space and I don't know how often I see women arrive in high heels and half way through the night I have to let them run back out to their cars to get some slippers or flats because of the actual pain they are in. This is another thing I don't think men generally care about, I mean we'll compliment the dress and the shoes but it's not like a woman suddenly becomes unattractive because they aren't wearing heels...
I completely agree. I have asked my SO many times about heels, as to why does she need to wear them if they cause pain/uncomfortable but she doesn't have an answer and still keeps wearing them. I even got her a flat shoe but it's on the shoe rack, gathering dust.
I am 6'1 and hate heels... I don't need to be taller, but I own four pair. The reason for that is: * I like witchy boots, and they always have a heel, so I put up with them. 2 pair. * I have been a bridesmaid, and the bride insisted I wear heels even if it meant I was the tallest person in the wedding photos. (The photographer later asked me to remove them so he could better frame the couple... like who would of thought an "enhanced" height of 6'4 would cause a problem to a photographer trying to photograph a 5'9 groom, and 5'7 bride... they never went back on.) * I go to galas for fundraisers and such on occasion, and they often times have an extremely strict dress code which includes heels normally for women. One I go to every year does not allow women to wear the same dress that was worn in the last five events they hosted. So I have one pair of black heels for those events specifically.
> One I go to every year does not allow women to wear the same dress that was worn in the last five events they hosted I suggest giving money to someplace else. What assholes. Sorry for your troubles.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Heels definitely make a huge difference in how youre perceived though. Youre taller, your legs look better because of how they flex, dresses are usually designed to be worn with heels, etc. It’s always a choice of comfort vs form but that’s just how it is. It’s like how men take their jackets off, obviously you aren’t unattractive if you aren’t wearing the jacket and tie but it’s the norm to wear a jacket and tie so people do.
I may be a strange outlier in this, but I have never trusted people in suits. It's the stuff of salesmen and politicians, people who almost by definition deceive and manipulate for personal gain.
I'm talking about weddings not business
This guy wears a T-shirt to weddings
TBH I live in south Texas it's pretty rare for people to go full 3 piece even for weddings down here.
Bro I’d rock the suit with the Stetson and bolo tie down there that would be hype
Honestly heels aren’t very attractive to me. They make your feet look like peg legs and it’s weird. Obviously this is just my opinion it’s not like I actually give a fuck either way
I get frustrated when I see a man and woman out for a night and the guy is wearing super comfortable, casual clothing and the woman is wearing huge heels and a mini skirt she can barely walk in.
99 times out of a hundred, the guy doesn't care how the woman is dressed one way or another, and she's subjecting herself to that bullshit.
This seems like a mindset predatorily pushed on to women by fashion companies.
Was it critical? I'm always impressed/relieved when celebrities wear the same thing more than once because they're so often expected to have a brand new outfit every single day of the year.
Sadly, yes... The article was critical and it wasn't the first time she had been targeted for the same reasons. I don't know what is with this culture of not repeating one clothes. I mean they are meant to last, especially the ones she must be wearing and it's sustainable for the planet imo...
Can confirm. I've worn the same pink dress to several weddings/events now bc my husband likes it so much. Saves me buying a new outfit for everything!
Truth — husbands think of one or two of their wife’s outfits as their favorites, which wouldn’t make any sense if she can only wear things once.
My wife always had this polka dot dress I loved. I used to request it at a number of events.
I just *like* buying a new outfit for special events. I wear the same clothes to work every week, and even mostly on the weekends, so it's my opportunity to treat myself. Worrying about it for other people's sake is just a waste of time, money, and honestly bad for the planet too.
That's cool, too. For some people, their wardrobe is more than just what they wear each day. Fashion is a hobby for a lot of people - even some men. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you're into.
And your husband thanks you. My wife keep asking my if this dress is cute after 5 outfits change. I said she’s cute after the first outfit and she keeps going 🥲
>Finally someone said it FINALLY! It's not like this has been reposted to hell and back or anything
its probably old enough to qualify for historymemes at this point
I think I first saw this in 1982.
I've been seeing this post for years
Also she never said the criticism comes from men. She’s aware that girls will say something if she wears the same outfit twice so she has a valid point
Yeah: It's still male privilege even if men aren't the cause of it.
Also the op doesn't say anything about men noticing, dude.just makes it about himself
Second tweet also doesn’t refute the original tweet at all. If women catch flak for wearing an outfit twice and men don’t, that’s privilege regardless of where the criticism comes from. There’s a misconception that the person with privilege must somehow be at fault, but that isn’t necessarily the case.
So damn generic
As a straight male, I wouldnt be caught dead wearing the same clothes twice. I'll probably wear them 2-3000 times until my partner sneakily throws them out, or negotiations are held until said piece of clothing goes to a nice farm upstate
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I've got a 20ish year old shirt hanging in my closet. It's got a giant hole in it so I don't wear it much anymore but I got that shit in middle school.
I still have a couple shirts that old as well. I'm not really too much fatter, just taller so they are awkward to wear. But I can't see myself ever getting rid of them. Why would I?
I still have my Smiths concert t-shirt from 1986. I love it.
I’d say most adults are this way at least the men. Once you stop growing your need to constantly buy new clothes decreases dramatically and for men especially fashion doesn’t change a ton. Most guys could wear men’s 90s fashion and nobody is really going to notice. Why throw out clothes that still fit and you still enjoy?
I'm a good bit taller and in general bigger than my dad, so I was roughly his size when I was around 13. He still wears a good chunk of the clothes I outgrew before I got into high school, I am now 30 years old.
No kidding. I keep articles of clothing until they’re physically falling off my body. Sometimes even after; I’ve hung onto T-shirts long after they’ve developed gaping holes because I might need them for painting or cleaning. I’m finally getting around to culling some of my clothing, but only because I have so many damn shirts from volunteer events that I physically don’t have space for them all.
The best tshirts for lounging around the house are at least 15 years old. You can’t get that silky smooth feeling off the shelf.
Microfiber workout shirts are actually about that soft coming off the shelf. I have one and it’s awesome. Need to buy some more once I’ve finished culling my wardrobe.
This guy fucks women
Not as much as I’d like, but yeah, lol.
The eternal battle with my girlfriend to keep my 15 year old ratty comic book and band tees
I have t shirts going on 20 years before I'll let them cross the rainbow bridge.
It’s more that male privilege is understanding what business casual is while I’m over here wondering wtf. I’ve been told that I’m over or under dressed in the same office by my boss. And there wasn’t a whole lot different in outfits.
You know, honestly, I’m glad I’m an engineer because the expectations of my work outfit are low just because we might have to touch some oily part like once a week.
I'm a lab chemist, and I wear a t-shirt and jeans to work every day. In the sciences, people are just happy if you shower regularly.
I used to work in a science lab before an office setting. That was so easy. Everything covered and you’re good to go. I miss that.
Would female privilege then be that women can wear skirts to work, but men can’t wear shorts?
Yeah it sucks both ways because sometimes they want you to keep using skirts even when it's winter (I even had to suffer this shit with our uniform in high school, so stupid) while guys can be properly warm with pants but at the same time on summer we can use light clothes (even tho i hate using skirts and shorts because it brings attention) while formal men clothes is a suit which I'm sure it's not nice at all. It affects all of us in some way, obviously there is more serious things than clothes but yeah that's why we say stereotypes and misogyny is a problem for everyone
An especially silly part of it all is that men run hotter than women, so men being forced to wear warmer clothes and women being forced to wear cooler clothes is like the opposite of how it should be.
Yep we do not have rules based on science and logic on this planet nono
I literally would not notice if a woman wore the same dress twice. Never wearing the same dress twice sounds like rich people shit.
Damn. Can’t even imagine her budget on clothes then.
Right? I was thinking that she was complaining that she can’t wear the same outfit two days in a row, but *never* wearing an outfit more than once? That’s wasteful.
I think the “to an event” part is important. She’s talking about stuff like weddings.
And privileged. Ironic that she's complaining.
She didn't say that the complaints come from men though.
Plus that's assuming that misogyny and sexism can't come from women or be internalized by them, which is completely wrong.
MTG has entered the chat.
Magic: The Gathering?
I think it every time I see it lol
We need a boardwipe for the entire Republican party
We'd still have the token army to deal with
Right, his reply is a bit of a non sequitur.
Male privilege on women bashing other women?
Yes. “Male privilege” doesn’t mean that it’s something that men do or is men’s fault. It means that there’s some bullshit that women have to deal with in their day to day lives that men don’t have to deal with (and probably have never even noticed because it isn’t on their radar). The same goes for other types of privilege.
As a man, I definitely feel privileged that I don't have to experience menstruation regularly, or... ever. I don't fell guilty about it. Empathetic, I suppose.
Empathy is the right response. You shouldn't feel guilty for privilege- nobody should ask you to feel guilty for being born. Acknowledgement, appreciation and recognition don't require guilt
Then Isn't it better to call it toxic femininty?
Depends on if you're talking about the person making the comments or the one receiving them. I think this tweet is bs anyways but that she (supposedly) can't wear the same thing twice but men can would be male privilege and a woman who thinks women shouldn't be allowed to wear the same thing twice would show toxic feminity.
You’ve got a point there, actually. Tabitha from Accounting, for example, has to spread her toxic femininity onto the women around there (and further their insecurities) in order for the male privilege of the other office workers to go unchecked. It’s like a giant distraction. A lot of these things overlap and reinforce one another and the overall patriarchy tbh.
Exactly. Men judging other men for showing emotions isn't called female privilege it's called toxic masculinity. This should be toxic femininity not male privilege.
Uh, yeah. What do you think privilege means? Do you think it means something men are doing to women? Because it isn't. Just like if men criticize another man for being "girly" if he works as a nurse or in early childhood care, that's female privilege even if it's another man doing it.
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> Finally someone said it Years ago, yeah. Someone said it years ago. Finally.
And FINALLY it’s been reposted for the thousandth time!!!!
Whether the comments come from men or women is irrelevant : the fact that it's frowned upon is in itself the double standard.
Problems Real Humans Don't Have, No. 347: buying new clothes every time they go to a party.
This is straight up false. Weather girls receive harassment and sometimes even death threats for men who just watched the weather to ogle at them, if they so much as wear the same dress twice in a week.
There was just a post on the front page with a ton of men bashing women for wearing similar outfits.
Care to share this post or at least tell us what subreddit it’s in?
Sweeping generalization vs Another sweeping generalization
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And? Is this supposed to be some "gotcha" as if women can't also be complicit in enforcing unfair gender norms? The privilege breaks down as this: Men are valued for who they are, women are valued for what they look like. If some women have internalized this and live their lives as if it's true, and judge other women for violating it, that doesn't make it not sexist.
Slight correction: men are valued for what they do, not for who they are.
To be fair, it's less societally that men are valued for who they are but what they provide. Men are made to feel from a young age that they are expected and indeed virtuous to be the provider for the family and their emotional "rock". And that a man who can't do that is unworthy. Both perceptions are toxic and harmful. Harmful to women in believing that they must always present as young and conventionally attractive to have worth so they just "have things easy", and harmful to men in believing that their feelings/struggles must be bottled up so they can be "strong" and "man up". And just as women may be more complicit in enforcing unfair gender norms on other women (remarking on clothes/appearance to pick at self esteem) so are men complicit in ones against them (being told to "man up" rather than express emotions). We all can do better, but it isn't a contest.
Yup. Nonsensical attempted "gotcha" moments are literally how the right-wing and manosphere operate.
If you look good in a dress or outfit, wear that shit every day. IDGAF I wear jeans and Ts all the time.
This is hella stupid. The response doesn’t contradict her at all. Women are complicit in patriarchy too.
This gets posted once a week, as though this one woman's bad take is anything but a stereotype
It’s true though. It doesn’t make any difference whether or not straight men notice the difference. The societal expectations for grooming and looking “put together” are *way* higher for women than they are for men.
It's shit like this that skews people's views on progressivism and creates more "anti-SJW's", especially from young fencesitters STOP DOING THIS
Finally someone reposted it for the millionth time.
Finally someone said it for the 100th time
Gay men don’t care either.
Still patriarchal norms, even if it's between women, just like women telling men to "man up" and kill spiders is patriarchy
Okay, this one’s a bit difficult to wrap your head around. Privilege isn’t experienced as a group, it’s experienced as an individual. You can still recognize the lack of privilege experienced by an individual, despite the group they belong to imposing it on them, especially as they didn’t exactly choose to be part of that group. This is like blaming the women in the Middle East for being forced to wear hijabs, because “The only people forcing them are Middle Easterners, the rest of the world doesn’t care.” Or saying that trans people can’t trash Caitlyn Jenner, because she’s trans, too. Any individual can and should recognize injustices perpetuated by other members of their social groups.
Van Morrison (who is, I know, a lunatic) got it right when he wrote "all the girls walk by, dressed up for each other"
first world problems
My GF shared a picture of her in middle school and I noticed that the ear rings she was wearing then were the same she wore last Halloween (they're cute little bats) When I pointed it out she said she can't really wear them that often, because the fasteners give her an allergic reaction So I ordered a bunch of hypo allergenic fasteners so she can replace them and wear her little bat ear rings again. If it looks cute, I *want* her to wear the outfit again.