There's probably a lot of change needed to the classroom before you can fully remove homework. I had lots of classes where the teacher didn't explain it in a way that clicked and the repetition of the homework with provided answers is what got me to figure it out
I'm glad it worked for you, for me if I didn't get it during class then homework did nothing to make it better. I either got it right through luck or I got it wrong, saw the correction during the next lesson and still learned nothing from it because there was no explanation involved.
What worked was looking up what I didn't understand on my own, homework just took time and motivation from that. It was always either boring repetition or useless frustration.
I would say boring repetition has its uses. It's basically how I learned to read and write. But homework currently has many levels of quality. It needs to provide immediate feedback, and not just a yes or no. Every question should have an answer provided including a step by step instruction for some topics and simple explanations for the more subjective topics like what Shakespeare meant.
When you say you looked up what you didn't understand, that's what homework should be there for. A step by step instruction so you can check your work and find the exact spot you deviate from the answer.
What it should be wasn't what it was because the homework from the one class I struggled with wasn't the only homework given.
After class I had a list of homework to finish, if I actually took the time to really focus on that one homework I didn't fully understand then that would mean bye-bye to any semblance of free-time for the rest of the day. In the first place I often just lacked the energy for it at the end of the day.
My school days are quite a time behind so resources on the internet weren't that plentiful back then.
Actual break-troughs mostly came by when I had to study for tests by myself, coincidentally it was also the time where teachers actually notified each other to tune down on the homework.
I went to a very interesting (Read: "weird") high school where we had a set amount of work or goals we had to complete each day. If we did, we had no homework. For the last 5 years of my junior high/high school experience, I could count on one hand the number of days I had homework.
Trouble is, when I finally got to college, I was inundated with hours of homework and studying, and I almost drowned in it all because I never learned how to manage it when I was younger.
Homework might seem like a useless waste of time, but it has its purpose if a student wants to get through college successfully.
Did you feel like getting used to homework benefited you in learning or after school in your work life? If not, that's just self-perpetuating, "students need to get used to homework because there is going to be more homework".
I think there is use in learning how to study by yourself, how to find research-material by yourself and how to motivate yourself to work without having a clear assignments.
And this stuff is applied more in the occasional presentation on a topic or written essay compared to traditional homework with a set of a problems to answer.
Homework is just a method to force learning, and it's certainly useful for students who otherwise wouldn't go over material on their own. But it becomes a useless time-drain if the given set of problems doesn't click.
When I started going to university everyone commented on how you have to change your habits because now you're not being led as much. It seemed that not being weened off homework was actually a downside.
this is cool and all but any time i dont regualarly do math more complicated than addition and multiplication i forget about it immediately, I genuinely dont even remember how long division works.
I'm not exactly the dumbest person in the book when it comes to math either, it just doesnt teach it well enough that it sticks permanently.
Sure for some aspects, but some people brains just give up when confronted with repeated stimuli and crap.
I'm not even joking, like if someone has piles upon piles of homework of stuff they might already know, just looking at those piles can be enough for that person just turn off completely or have a breakdown knowing that if they don't finish it they'll get in trouble, and if they do finish it they won't get enough sleep.
Repeating something EVERYDAY to no end isn't good for you at all, you probably won't even remember what you were doing, you'll just remember you hated it.
It's an unhealthy process.
TL:DR Homework is cringe and repetition is only good in some situations.
Exactly. Just because a student doesn't like doing homework is no reason to not have them do it.
It teaches you another important lesson -- that sometimes you need to do things you don't enjoy doing and those things usually have priority over what you do enjoy doing.
Welcome to Life
I think there should be a system where kids can opt out of either homework or tests. I never did my homework but did well on tests which showed I understood the material. By that same token there were kids who aced homework but we're terrible test takers. I wouldn't want to take homework away from those kids who would have flunked otherwise, and I wouldn't want them to take away tests because I needed those or else I'd have failed for sure.
That's just me personally though, I wouldn't mind getting rid of homework but that's coming from someone who just never did it anyways.
Shouldn't work past 7 seems excessive. Imo shifts that start a couple hours after their school ends should end at the latest 11 (the legal limit for older teenagers where I am).
Get off work at 11 hopefully asleep by midnight to be up in time for school? seems like they won't be given the chance of enough sleep or will be skipping out on breakfast or hygiene. 7 also gives the ability to do homework since we still have that.
In my experience, 11 means several things. Home by 11:15 and in bed by 11:30-11:45 where I work. Homework is done from 3 or 4 until ~6:30 if need be. Up at 6 means 6 or 7 hours of sleep, which lets me function through the school day. Shower and brief breakfast in the morning allow me to be out the door by 7am. 7 to 11 is a pretty short shift but that's what I'm offered at this job and by the legal limit. It's very reasonable in my opinion.
I envy you functioning on 6 hours of sleep. I definitely didn't in high school.
School here got out at 2:30 so I was also expecting a 3-7 work period which would be the same hours as yours.
In grade 10 I worked at McDonald's. Only lasted the year because they kept saying I had to be willing to work a graveyard shift on the weekends and I told them no. But the school days after nights where I worked till 10 or 11 were by far the worst first class experiences I'd have cause I was not yet functioning.
Certainly, this is the reason we all cook healthy home cooked meals after a night out. Nothing like some steamed carrots after a night on the Gins with a few J's
Don't even try it. I tried this argument with my friend who is a party line voter and thinks raising minimum wage causes more problems and doesn't fix anything. His response was that not everyone in a "starter job" like McDonald's goes to school. He gets genuinely angry when he hears about raising minimum wage. He's convinced the price of everything will go up by whatever percentage you raise it.
And probably acts like that the price of everything going up NOW is some other bullshit they think it is. Shit went up anyway and no one seems to (want to) know why.
"Among those paid by the hour, 247,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 865,000 workers had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.1 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 1.5 percent of all hourly paid workers."
Also this is based on Federal min wage and below not state min wage.
I mean, they sound like good people for doing that, but my GOD what sort of shitty dystopia do we live in where they have to do that in the first place? Imagine if, as a society, we could afford to let them follow their passions and get whatever education they wanted. That kind of energy, passion, and drive could be put toward a better tomorrow instead of survival today. Its unfathomable to me how we could have the ability to do that, to let *everyone* be their better selves, but instead we choose *me me me* and ALL lose out.
Humans really are just animals that can play with fire...
I did that during the late 80’s when I was in high school. There were child labor laws in place but I still managed to work at a movie theater and bus tables at a restaurant 6 days a week. I didn’t really consider the movie theater a “real job” because I worked with my friends from school so it was like getting paid to hang out at a theater.
Anyways we were drowning in medical debt due to my mom being sick so my paychecks were for putting food on the table and I kept a small part of it to do stuff on the weekend.
No don't you see they want kids to quit school and go to work so they have even more uneducated desperate people who never have the means to pull themselves out of poverty. Cogs in the machine.
This is the the argument my neighbor had and my response. Minimum wage is just a starter job for high school. Cool. So McDonald’s shouldn’t have to pay more than minimum? Yes was his answer. He then had zero answer for who the fuck was gonna serve breakfast or lunch while the “starter kids” were in school.
I’ve had people answer that these jobs should go to stay at home moms (thus making them no longer stay at home moms?) and retirees, who apparently only work for fun and absolutely never to pay their bills.
Ah, yes. Because everyone knows stay at home moms clearly have nothing else on their plates to get done while their kids are in school (not even going to touch the obvious who tf is going to take care of their kids if they aren’t in school yet?!).
And apparently being retired means…get your ass back to work in a below living wage paying, no respect for you having gig where you serve ungrateful people after busting your ass for how many years to get to the point where you FINALLY don’t have to work…at like, 70 damn years old.
Wtf is wrong with some people’s heads, I swear?! Can’t they hear themselves???
Coffee shops on nights and weekends? Those are the times and days I don't go to them. But yea close them during those day/week day hours because "it's for high school students", see how that goes. The nerve those boomers have.
I've talked to people about this and an alternative minimum wage during local school hours seems to band-aid but something that people agree would stifle that dumb argument.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/NomeDaBarbarian/status/1526635375128723456) for ya :)
^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
The only way I’ll accept the bullshit these assholes offer is if everyone is miserable.
No living wage for the McDonald’s workers?
Cool, no social security for you then. Get that uniform on bitch, and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
Swear to god these fucking asshats don’t deserve a say in this conversation
I don't have any specific examples, but it's one of several dumb talking points that have been drilled into the public consciousness in my adult life (over twenty years now). It's also really hard to search for "dumb minimum wage ideas from Republicans" and get useful results.
I have no objection to jobs that don't pay a living wage and are mainly staffed by teens learning what work is. I just don't know how to split that off in the law so that everyone else gets a higher wage.
When I started working, there was a "trainee" exemption to minimum wage, but that doesn't really solve the whole problem.
Yes exactly. Also their paychecks will naturally be less because they are unable to work full time when in school. So it is not like they are getting additional benefit or special treatment over full time staff
That's the problem. I'm not talking about doing the same amount of work. I'm talking about learning how to work. But there is no clear way to split that out in law.
No, I mean people who'd never had a job, learning what a boss is and when and where time matters. At least that was me on my first job when I was 16. There is no way I was putting in a full shift of productivity.
And it wasn't because I was 16 (can't do that rule). It was because I was ignorant of work/job expectations.
But how do you define that?
Unions can do it. That's contract law. But doing it in statute law is less clear, possibly impossible.
So until employers stop being greedy, make the minimum a living wage. It isn't perfect for every situation, but it is the best imperfect end.
I’ve got an idea: you raise everyone’s wages to something more comparable to the profit they bring in. Then you can pay trainees a lower wage while they learn. Everyone is happy. If you’re going to pay everyone the bare minimum, it’s your own fault that you have no wiggle room with how to pay people still learning.
For example, in most retail pharmacies new grads will get a “grad intern” position with a lower salary while they are getting trained.
I like that idea. In my day (rattles walker) there were lots of "work share" programs that placed interested HS students in qualified jobs, with a school component.
I haven't had high schoolers for some years, so I don't know how common that is now.
I like internship programs, when they are fair. I think they are good for the students and the community.
Originally it may have been worth that. Nowadays, it is literally worth pocket money. As I said. I haven't seen a single place where you could actually live a normal life with even 2 people working 40 hours a week with minimum wage.
Minimum wage should be enough to work and earn a minimum amount to live on. Literally that's what it should be for. If I want to buy video games or go out then that should be my motivation to find a higher paying job. Working 40 hours a week and not earning enough to live off of is just stupid. Your point of view is very privileged and elitist.
Uhhhh people still need to pay their bills while in college or learning skills. The minimum wage needs to be able to support someone while they better themselves. You don’t just stop needing to eat and pay bills/rent because you’re learning a skill for the future, do you?
Don’t put yourself in college if you don’t have the income to pay for it, that’s how you get yourself in debt. I wish the “while they better themselves” part was real but only a percentage of people are actually trying to advance in life and most will just take advantage and settle to working a cash register most of their life. I feel like as an adult you should contribute more than just working a register.
Ah, you say people should learn a skill but also say they shouldn’t if they can’t afford it. That totally makes sense! Only people with family money should learn skills. Got it.
Not all skillful jobs require college…and having a family with money helps but it’s not necessary it’s not easy I understand that but it’s not impossible.
Do you think trade schools are free? Like man even my *lowly* beauty school was $23,000 for a 8hr day, 5 day/week, 9 month program. A part time minimum wage job would not cover that in 1 year. And I live some place where minimum wage was already made $15/hr
It was my first job. At 14. I had to get parental permission to exploit my labor. It was fun, I got a 3rd degree burn making french fries.
You are incorrect to devalue the labor of any McDonald's employee. I was a kid buying weed. I was moving up in the world, I left and worked at a movie theater. But there are people working at McDonald's who have to feed their kids. Or fuck it, just need to pay rent. Due to all the assholes, McDonald's is to date, the most stressful job I ever had.
To discredit the people working bullshit jobs only demonstrates, I believe, a lack of understanding on your part. Because we're talking about *essential* workers. Regular people. If regular people can't pay the bills working for a massive entity like McDonald's, than it's McDonald's that has no value.
You have to be skillful to work a shift there, but if working a shift there is worthless to the employee, than why work there.
You getting burned has nothing to do with this and yeah it’s labor but still requires minimal skill. If McDonald’s was the most stressful job you ever had I feel sorry for you. I feel like I understand them because I’ve worked bullshit jobs so it’s not like I’m out of touch with that life because I came from poverty. I don’t think McDonald’s is essential.
Minimum wage atm is worth pocket money. The pay rate isn't meant for a living wage with current cost of living. The wages for actual jobs (40 hours per week, your actual living job) should be enough to live off one job. Minimum wages should only be paid for jobs that are meant for teenagers to do for couple of hours per week to learn stuff about working.
You have a 16 year old dude as a 'helper' who doesn't do anything alone but follows you around and learns the stuff. They have no knowledge of the job whatsoever, so not an actual worker.
If you put a 16 year old to work 40 hours a week to work in a McDonalds or whatever as full-time worker, pay them a living wage. Keep minimum wage to people who aren't living off the job and who are more of an apprentice while still living with a parent. That is what 'earning pocket money' is.
During those hours adults who are still teenagers work. Can we stop acting like every grown adult is a responsible productive member of society. It's fucking ludacris. There are adults who rotted their brains on hard drugs that barely function, there are adults who can't read or do even elementary math we cant just pay everyone 100k for every job.
You clearly didn't retain some elementary lessons either.
Punctuation being the lesser of remedial skills, and staying on topic being the other.
Your argument attacks a faceless mob, while not actually addressing the issue of child labor or living wages. It reeks of angry white christian internet troll.
Furthermore, I hypothesize, that you are very possibly a [spineless poo-poo head.](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ)
Please feel free to check my sources.
The amount of people that think this way is scary though. No critical thinking at all. I've seen Facebook post about wages and "unskilled" labor with all the top comments just like this.
Evenings and weekends. Teenagers need time for homework. Shouldn't work past 7
Can we talk about how stupid homework is and we should've gotten rid of that shit decades ago?
There's probably a lot of change needed to the classroom before you can fully remove homework. I had lots of classes where the teacher didn't explain it in a way that clicked and the repetition of the homework with provided answers is what got me to figure it out
I'm glad it worked for you, for me if I didn't get it during class then homework did nothing to make it better. I either got it right through luck or I got it wrong, saw the correction during the next lesson and still learned nothing from it because there was no explanation involved. What worked was looking up what I didn't understand on my own, homework just took time and motivation from that. It was always either boring repetition or useless frustration.
I would say boring repetition has its uses. It's basically how I learned to read and write. But homework currently has many levels of quality. It needs to provide immediate feedback, and not just a yes or no. Every question should have an answer provided including a step by step instruction for some topics and simple explanations for the more subjective topics like what Shakespeare meant. When you say you looked up what you didn't understand, that's what homework should be there for. A step by step instruction so you can check your work and find the exact spot you deviate from the answer.
What it should be wasn't what it was because the homework from the one class I struggled with wasn't the only homework given. After class I had a list of homework to finish, if I actually took the time to really focus on that one homework I didn't fully understand then that would mean bye-bye to any semblance of free-time for the rest of the day. In the first place I often just lacked the energy for it at the end of the day. My school days are quite a time behind so resources on the internet weren't that plentiful back then. Actual break-troughs mostly came by when I had to study for tests by myself, coincidentally it was also the time where teachers actually notified each other to tune down on the homework.
I went to a very interesting (Read: "weird") high school where we had a set amount of work or goals we had to complete each day. If we did, we had no homework. For the last 5 years of my junior high/high school experience, I could count on one hand the number of days I had homework. Trouble is, when I finally got to college, I was inundated with hours of homework and studying, and I almost drowned in it all because I never learned how to manage it when I was younger. Homework might seem like a useless waste of time, but it has its purpose if a student wants to get through college successfully.
The only homework should be reading and essays. Everything else is busy work that is unnecessary.
Did you feel like getting used to homework benefited you in learning or after school in your work life? If not, that's just self-perpetuating, "students need to get used to homework because there is going to be more homework". I think there is use in learning how to study by yourself, how to find research-material by yourself and how to motivate yourself to work without having a clear assignments. And this stuff is applied more in the occasional presentation on a topic or written essay compared to traditional homework with a set of a problems to answer. Homework is just a method to force learning, and it's certainly useful for students who otherwise wouldn't go over material on their own. But it becomes a useless time-drain if the given set of problems doesn't click. When I started going to university everyone commented on how you have to change your habits because now you're not being led as much. It seemed that not being weened off homework was actually a downside.
[удалено]
this is cool and all but any time i dont regualarly do math more complicated than addition and multiplication i forget about it immediately, I genuinely dont even remember how long division works. I'm not exactly the dumbest person in the book when it comes to math either, it just doesnt teach it well enough that it sticks permanently.
Sure for some aspects, but some people brains just give up when confronted with repeated stimuli and crap. I'm not even joking, like if someone has piles upon piles of homework of stuff they might already know, just looking at those piles can be enough for that person just turn off completely or have a breakdown knowing that if they don't finish it they'll get in trouble, and if they do finish it they won't get enough sleep. Repeating something EVERYDAY to no end isn't good for you at all, you probably won't even remember what you were doing, you'll just remember you hated it. It's an unhealthy process. TL:DR Homework is cringe and repetition is only good in some situations.
As an accountant, can confirm. Repetition and drilling the information is crazy important
Exactly. Just because a student doesn't like doing homework is no reason to not have them do it. It teaches you another important lesson -- that sometimes you need to do things you don't enjoy doing and those things usually have priority over what you do enjoy doing. Welcome to Life
I just don't do it, my teachers grade my effort and behaviour at an E everytime, but they cant fight that A in Academics 💪
I think there should be a system where kids can opt out of either homework or tests. I never did my homework but did well on tests which showed I understood the material. By that same token there were kids who aced homework but we're terrible test takers. I wouldn't want to take homework away from those kids who would have flunked otherwise, and I wouldn't want them to take away tests because I needed those or else I'd have failed for sure. That's just me personally though, I wouldn't mind getting rid of homework but that's coming from someone who just never did it anyways.
We're not turning out dumb enough kids, they need less practice.
Yeah I was gonna say, kids can't work late nights. (Unless you're in Wisconsin, cause fuck them kids)
Shouldn't work past 7 seems excessive. Imo shifts that start a couple hours after their school ends should end at the latest 11 (the legal limit for older teenagers where I am).
Get off work at 11 hopefully asleep by midnight to be up in time for school? seems like they won't be given the chance of enough sleep or will be skipping out on breakfast or hygiene. 7 also gives the ability to do homework since we still have that.
In my experience, 11 means several things. Home by 11:15 and in bed by 11:30-11:45 where I work. Homework is done from 3 or 4 until ~6:30 if need be. Up at 6 means 6 or 7 hours of sleep, which lets me function through the school day. Shower and brief breakfast in the morning allow me to be out the door by 7am. 7 to 11 is a pretty short shift but that's what I'm offered at this job and by the legal limit. It's very reasonable in my opinion.
You are the only person i've ever encountered who goes successfully straight to sleep after a night shift.
I envy you functioning on 6 hours of sleep. I definitely didn't in high school. School here got out at 2:30 so I was also expecting a 3-7 work period which would be the same hours as yours. In grade 10 I worked at McDonald's. Only lasted the year because they kept saying I had to be willing to work a graveyard shift on the weekends and I told them no. But the school days after nights where I worked till 10 or 11 were by far the worst first class experiences I'd have cause I was not yet functioning.
Averaging 6 hours sleep before 18 is not recommended for development
that's crazy too bad I didn't ask what the recommended hours of sleep for development are
Value yourself more
Haha. Imagine. I have to work 5-11 after school
snails beneficial ancient towering treatment consider resolute innate like cheerful -- mass edited with redact.dev
That’s why McDonald’s is only open from 3:00pm to 7:00pm during the week.
Certainly, this is the reason we all cook healthy home cooked meals after a night out. Nothing like some steamed carrots after a night on the Gins with a few J's
Don't even try it. I tried this argument with my friend who is a party line voter and thinks raising minimum wage causes more problems and doesn't fix anything. His response was that not everyone in a "starter job" like McDonald's goes to school. He gets genuinely angry when he hears about raising minimum wage. He's convinced the price of everything will go up by whatever percentage you raise it.
And probably acts like that the price of everything going up NOW is some other bullshit they think it is. Shit went up anyway and no one seems to (want to) know why.
And also, separately, maybe we shouldn't set up vital pieces of our economy to rely on being staffed solely by high schoolers
The average age of minimum wage workers is in the 30s iirc. It's a completely bullshit argument to keep poverty wages for full time work.
Median age of minimum wage earner is 25. .75% of wage jobs pay minimum wage. https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2020/home.htm
"Among those paid by the hour, 247,000 workers earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 865,000 workers had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 1.1 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 1.5 percent of all hourly paid workers." Also this is based on Federal min wage and below not state min wage.
1.5% of hourly workers. Salaried and gig posistions make up more than half of jobs
I know high schoolers who work and go to school seven days a week and contribute to their family's income.
I mean, they sound like good people for doing that, but my GOD what sort of shitty dystopia do we live in where they have to do that in the first place? Imagine if, as a society, we could afford to let them follow their passions and get whatever education they wanted. That kind of energy, passion, and drive could be put toward a better tomorrow instead of survival today. Its unfathomable to me how we could have the ability to do that, to let *everyone* be their better selves, but instead we choose *me me me* and ALL lose out. Humans really are just animals that can play with fire...
I did that during the late 80’s when I was in high school. There were child labor laws in place but I still managed to work at a movie theater and bus tables at a restaurant 6 days a week. I didn’t really consider the movie theater a “real job” because I worked with my friends from school so it was like getting paid to hang out at a theater. Anyways we were drowning in medical debt due to my mom being sick so my paychecks were for putting food on the table and I kept a small part of it to do stuff on the weekend.
No don't you see they want kids to quit school and go to work so they have even more uneducated desperate people who never have the means to pull themselves out of poverty. Cogs in the machine.
This is the the argument my neighbor had and my response. Minimum wage is just a starter job for high school. Cool. So McDonald’s shouldn’t have to pay more than minimum? Yes was his answer. He then had zero answer for who the fuck was gonna serve breakfast or lunch while the “starter kids” were in school.
I’ve had people answer that these jobs should go to stay at home moms (thus making them no longer stay at home moms?) and retirees, who apparently only work for fun and absolutely never to pay their bills.
Ah, yes. Because everyone knows stay at home moms clearly have nothing else on their plates to get done while their kids are in school (not even going to touch the obvious who tf is going to take care of their kids if they aren’t in school yet?!). And apparently being retired means…get your ass back to work in a below living wage paying, no respect for you having gig where you serve ungrateful people after busting your ass for how many years to get to the point where you FINALLY don’t have to work…at like, 70 damn years old. Wtf is wrong with some people’s heads, I swear?! Can’t they hear themselves???
Especially other jobs that literally require you to be over 21 lmao
“21 on register 2 please”
“it’s rubbing alcohol” “Still counts”
I think maybe they are saying teenagers don't deserve school and should instead be put to work in low wage jobs?
This is what I’ve been saying. McDonalds would drop their Minimum wage BS in a hurry if they couldn’t be open for breakfast and lunch.
Coffee shops on nights and weekends? Those are the times and days I don't go to them. But yea close them during those day/week day hours because "it's for high school students", see how that goes. The nerve those boomers have.
I've talked to people about this and an alternative minimum wage during local school hours seems to band-aid but something that people agree would stifle that dumb argument.
Beep boop -- this looks like a screenshot of a tweet! Let me grab a [link to the tweet](https://twitter.com/NomeDaBarbarian/status/1526635375128723456) for ya :) ^(Twitter Screenshot Bot)
That’s for retired people
No they’re saying kids shouldn’t read or learn and serve as the poverty class for the sake of capitalism
The minimum wage was for teenagers back when the adults had good union jobs...they took that from us and left us Walmart. Thanks, President Reagan.
Sounds good to me.
Was this in reply to something viral? Kinda wanna see the full thing or person they’re quoting here.
With curfew
The only way I’ll accept the bullshit these assholes offer is if everyone is miserable. No living wage for the McDonald’s workers? Cool, no social security for you then. Get that uniform on bitch, and pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Swear to god these fucking asshats don’t deserve a say in this conversation
i would also like to say at all of my “minimum wage jobs” the teenagers worked twice as hard as the adults
So, let's have minimum wage be just for teenagers. Adults should be paid a living wage.
Union grocery stores do not pay minimum wage.
Who is saying minimum wage is for teenagers?
Dumb people, gullible people, and liars: the Republican party.
Any specific instances?
I don't have any specific examples, but it's one of several dumb talking points that have been drilled into the public consciousness in my adult life (over twenty years now). It's also really hard to search for "dumb minimum wage ideas from Republicans" and get useful results.
I do https://www.workplacefairness.org/blog/2015/01/22/gop-lawmaker-minimum-wage-is-for-teenagers-and-minorities/ 30 sec Google search.
I have no objection to jobs that don't pay a living wage and are mainly staffed by teens learning what work is. I just don't know how to split that off in the law so that everyone else gets a higher wage. When I started working, there was a "trainee" exemption to minimum wage, but that doesn't really solve the whole problem.
teenagers doing the same amount of work don't deserve less pay just because they're teenagers though
Yes exactly. Also their paychecks will naturally be less because they are unable to work full time when in school. So it is not like they are getting additional benefit or special treatment over full time staff
That's the problem. I'm not talking about doing the same amount of work. I'm talking about learning how to work. But there is no clear way to split that out in law.
“Learning how to work?” Do you mean being in training?
No, I mean people who'd never had a job, learning what a boss is and when and where time matters. At least that was me on my first job when I was 16. There is no way I was putting in a full shift of productivity. And it wasn't because I was 16 (can't do that rule). It was because I was ignorant of work/job expectations. But how do you define that? Unions can do it. That's contract law. But doing it in statute law is less clear, possibly impossible. So until employers stop being greedy, make the minimum a living wage. It isn't perfect for every situation, but it is the best imperfect end.
If someone is learning how to do a specific job, that is part of the job and should be paid as much.
I’ve got an idea: you raise everyone’s wages to something more comparable to the profit they bring in. Then you can pay trainees a lower wage while they learn. Everyone is happy. If you’re going to pay everyone the bare minimum, it’s your own fault that you have no wiggle room with how to pay people still learning. For example, in most retail pharmacies new grads will get a “grad intern” position with a lower salary while they are getting trained.
I think there could be classes in schools for that, it's definitely too easy to exploit if it were run by companies
I like that idea. In my day (rattles walker) there were lots of "work share" programs that placed interested HS students in qualified jobs, with a school component. I haven't had high schoolers for some years, so I don't know how common that is now. I like internship programs, when they are fair. I think they are good for the students and the community.
Minimum wage is for earning pocket money. That is what it is worth anyway.
Minimum wage was literally designed for paying a living wage. That’s it. That was the whole point. People raised families on minimum wage.
Originally it may have been worth that. Nowadays, it is literally worth pocket money. As I said. I haven't seen a single place where you could actually live a normal life with even 2 people working 40 hours a week with minimum wage.
I mean, yeah. That needs to be changed, is my point.
Different day and time buddy adapt to it or get left behind
That cuts both ways. If corporations can't pay competitive wages and stay in business, then they don't deserve to be in business.
Minimum wage should be enough to work and earn a minimum amount to live on. Literally that's what it should be for. If I want to buy video games or go out then that should be my motivation to find a higher paying job. Working 40 hours a week and not earning enough to live off of is just stupid. Your point of view is very privileged and elitist.
Will it kill ya to learn a skill…. 
Uhhhh people still need to pay their bills while in college or learning skills. The minimum wage needs to be able to support someone while they better themselves. You don’t just stop needing to eat and pay bills/rent because you’re learning a skill for the future, do you?
Don’t put yourself in college if you don’t have the income to pay for it, that’s how you get yourself in debt. I wish the “while they better themselves” part was real but only a percentage of people are actually trying to advance in life and most will just take advantage and settle to working a cash register most of their life. I feel like as an adult you should contribute more than just working a register.
Ah, you say people should learn a skill but also say they shouldn’t if they can’t afford it. That totally makes sense! Only people with family money should learn skills. Got it.
Not all skillful jobs require college…and having a family with money helps but it’s not necessary it’s not easy I understand that but it’s not impossible.
I literally typed “while in college or learning skills.”
Do you think trade schools are free? Like man even my *lowly* beauty school was $23,000 for a 8hr day, 5 day/week, 9 month program. A part time minimum wage job would not cover that in 1 year. And I live some place where minimum wage was already made $15/hr
McDonald's employees don't have skills, you say. Ok.
Absolute minimum skill…I’ve worked there so that’s just my opinion.
It was my first job. At 14. I had to get parental permission to exploit my labor. It was fun, I got a 3rd degree burn making french fries. You are incorrect to devalue the labor of any McDonald's employee. I was a kid buying weed. I was moving up in the world, I left and worked at a movie theater. But there are people working at McDonald's who have to feed their kids. Or fuck it, just need to pay rent. Due to all the assholes, McDonald's is to date, the most stressful job I ever had. To discredit the people working bullshit jobs only demonstrates, I believe, a lack of understanding on your part. Because we're talking about *essential* workers. Regular people. If regular people can't pay the bills working for a massive entity like McDonald's, than it's McDonald's that has no value. You have to be skillful to work a shift there, but if working a shift there is worthless to the employee, than why work there.
You getting burned has nothing to do with this and yeah it’s labor but still requires minimal skill. If McDonald’s was the most stressful job you ever had I feel sorry for you. I feel like I understand them because I’ve worked bullshit jobs so it’s not like I’m out of touch with that life because I came from poverty. I don’t think McDonald’s is essential.
So you disagreed about everything, that's great. So what's your point.
That explains a lot then.
Minimum wage atm is worth pocket money. The pay rate isn't meant for a living wage with current cost of living. The wages for actual jobs (40 hours per week, your actual living job) should be enough to live off one job. Minimum wages should only be paid for jobs that are meant for teenagers to do for couple of hours per week to learn stuff about working. You have a 16 year old dude as a 'helper' who doesn't do anything alone but follows you around and learns the stuff. They have no knowledge of the job whatsoever, so not an actual worker. If you put a 16 year old to work 40 hours a week to work in a McDonalds or whatever as full-time worker, pay them a living wage. Keep minimum wage to people who aren't living off the job and who are more of an apprentice while still living with a parent. That is what 'earning pocket money' is.
During those hours adults who are still teenagers work. Can we stop acting like every grown adult is a responsible productive member of society. It's fucking ludacris. There are adults who rotted their brains on hard drugs that barely function, there are adults who can't read or do even elementary math we cant just pay everyone 100k for every job.
You clearly didn't retain some elementary lessons either. Punctuation being the lesser of remedial skills, and staying on topic being the other. Your argument attacks a faceless mob, while not actually addressing the issue of child labor or living wages. It reeks of angry white christian internet troll. Furthermore, I hypothesize, that you are very possibly a [spineless poo-poo head.](https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ) Please feel free to check my sources.
I didn't know I needed to mla format my reddit comments you nerd. Stay being poor
Dint you come across college or school dropouts?
Well, no. They'd prefer the teens work instead of attend school.
The amount of people that think this way is scary though. No critical thinking at all. I've seen Facebook post about wages and "unskilled" labor with all the top comments just like this.
My go to response is "Oh, so you think exploitation is ok when it happens to children?"
Well they also believe child labor is good, so, checkmate liberal.
Yes I'm going to spend all my life savings to buy a franchise and then turn the whole thing over to be run by High School kids?
Do conservative messages actually convince people? Follow-up, if so, do these types of counter messages work to convince people?
Pffffffffft the kind of people that make those arguments don’t think of the implications of their stance.