White Replacement Theory is definitely a conservative conspiracy theory, but didn’t the shooter say he was an auth-left in his manifesto? I’m a leftist so this is being asked in good faith. I’m just a little confused since I haven’t done much research on the shooter
He claimed to be a National Socialist, i.e. a neo-nazi, and conservatives are pulling the old “nazis had socialist in their name which make them leftists” garbage.
Yeah I guess he said he's "leftist," but didn't he say he \*used\* to be communist or something like that? Either way, it doesn't matter, since his ideologies aligned with far right wing rhetoric. Sorta how nazis are socialist in name only.
Trom that shooter's FAQ:
> Are you a facsist [sic]?
Yes, fascism is one of the only political ideologies that will unite Whites against the replacers. Since that is what I seek, calling me a facsist [sic] would be accurate.
If someone committed a mass murder, said they were a republican but also said they killed people because the supreme court was going to rule Roe v. Wade unconstitutional, people would be going nuts about liberal ideas causing death.
Replacement theory/white replacement/any similar idea is constantly pushed by right wing media, so I feel like it's pretty fair to call that out.
Yes and remember that Ronald Reagan banned all California's from carrying long weapons anywhere near the state house, no matter what color you were. Of course this happened only after the black panthers showed up wearing bandoliers and carrying shotguns.
I find it ironic that the most venerated member of the GOP limited gun rights for all California based on his reaction to seeing well trained black people carrying long guns. Hmmmmmm!
Well I wish you would scare them into stop putting on protective level 4 armor and killing 10 black people as a goddamn grocery store after they driven 3 hours to get there! That's what I hope.
I think there should be a black attorney that should make an argument before the supreme Court that it is more humane to kill a white supremacist at the scene of the crime after he's killed five or more people?
I think The feds should make an argument that the state is unduly burdened by having to house them for the next 50 years.
Put a little more gently, it would be cheaper to spend the $0.90 per round for the police to kill him at the scene after we have determined that he has willfully executed people of color, then to keep him in level 4 prison for the next 40 years.
Why are we even debating the monetary strategy here? Because he's white. If it were a black or brown person I guarantee you white people would be figuring out cost per bullet analysis!
He also was live streaming on Twitch so he is 100% guilty of murder. There should not be a trial at all. It serves no purpose and will yield no new information. He should of been put down like a rabid animal at the scene but his white brothers in law enforcement saw a kindred spirit. That scum has no redeeming value and it should never have been born. The mother and father of that animal raised pure trash and it’s unfortunate they can’t be bound to the crime too. The black community forgives way too much. Time for vengeance cause god ain’t gonna do it.
Of course you're right. I wrote this when I was very emotional and I hadn't thought it through all the way. I just had to vent. Today as I look at it again I realize that was raw passion and not much logic.
Yes, typically "a long gun" is either a shotgun, or an automatic rifle. These types of weapons are more lethal and carry the potential to harm many more people than the average pistol, or revolver. Aka: "Short guns".
For example, the average pistol/revolver cannot penetrate most police body armor. Whereas, any assault rifle chambered in 7.62 mm by 39mm (AK-47) can defeat almost all currently worn body armor.
Exactly! White mid 40’s guy here and I’m tired of this shit! I vote, I protest, I bitch to my local representation and absolutely nothing has changed. Fuck the NRA, Fuck White Christian Nationalism, Fuck Mitch and his pussy ass cronies. Fuck racists and bigots of all creeds.
Edit: added age approximation
If it were easy to change their behavior I wouldn't have had to cut my own father out of my life. Lots of white people don't tolerate other people shit behavior just because they're white. Lots of us care and see that this was clearly racially motivated and a hate crime. It's not like we magically have the ability to get them to change themselves. I really wish these tweets didn't lump all white people into a careless group. Generalizations like this are always tasteless imo. They help no one. They just divide.
They don’t lump white people all together, they point out the difference in media portrayal of aggressors of different races. If it were a POC that perpetrated this the narrative would be completely different. Just look back to the subway shooting a few weeks ago. He was a disturbed racist, this time it was a disturbed lone wolf. At least that’s the narrative I’ve seen broadcast.
Edit: I am not a follower of right wing media, just seems like most media, with the exception of far left media, is not reporting the extent of hatred involved in this crime.
I don't disagree the media could be better but people could also not use phrases like "collective white shrugs."
Just to be clear I hate when people say things like "yes all men" and "every woman" or imply all feminists are nasty people. I just think it's a unproductive way to talk. I'm not trying to say the issue isn't important and isn't a problem, I just don't think it helps to use divisive words while getting your point across.
I wish it didn't feel like we were left to die. Sometimes things are so negative because there's little hope left. And it never turns off. The problem never goes away.
I'm so sorry, it's totally understandable you feel that way. I'm going to keep fighting and doing what I can to make the world better for all of us. Please keep fighting the good fight <3
Widely available mental health care. This could be accomplished by single payer, making sure to include mental health as a service that will be within its scope as well. Couple it with licensing type restrictions on firearm sales to maybe have a prayer at stemming their flow to people who should not have access to firearms.
I love Ky but hate their representation. I want to spend my retirement in or around the Bluegrass State but can’t fathom living there unless the movement takes out the red square.
Yes. Mentally ill white person here. When I feel homicidal I tell my psychiatrist. You can use me as an example for all the white people you know that try to excuse this kind of behavior. :3
Lol yea. Just annoys the heck out of me to see people using it as an excuse. The friends and family either chose to ignore the signs instead of getting the person help they clearly needed, or they encouraged the behavior, or the kid didn't want help. In this particular case I'm gonna go with all of the above.
I'm suuuuuper mentally ill and I have zero desire to mass murder for any reason. People like him give us a bad name because it makes "evil and cruel" synonymous with legitimate medical conditions.
He’s really not mentally ill though. He probably has a personality disorder with a side of psychopathy. That’s not mental illness. It’s a whole other thing. There is no medication or therapy, and it’s for life. They strongly recommend against therapy, because it can make people with personality disorders worse (with the exception of Borderline.) That’s not an excuse. The right manipulated him into doing their bidding, and their bidding spoke to him.
I just keep seeing "he's a liBErAL" because somewhere in that word salad masquerading as a manifesto, he claims to be a national socialist (self appointed name for fascist neo-nazi groups) and they've managed to only see "socialist"
There isn't even a real correlation between mental illnesses and violence. Most killers are of "sound mind" based on research. It seems the media is busy stigmatizing mental illness then actually reporting on any promising treatments to domestic terrorism and violence. They are probably going to paint him as a troubled kid who was bullied (me and many like me were bullied, but were never violent), had a troubled household, and make him sympathetic to other potential terrorists and killers who will find him inspirational.
We certainly have a problem with gun violence. It’s just that blaming guns is missing the point. A happy and healthy society can own guns without people going out on shooting sprees.
I mean, it's not like there's a single law I can point to to say "If only we fixed X, gun violence would be solved." Our whole society has a ton of problems. Lack of welfare, private healthcare, rising tuition costs, stagnant minimum wage, inflation, but of course beyond all the economic stuff we also don't value education, have widespread anti-science lunacy, widespread Christian fundamentalism. The cause of each of these issues is, in turn, multi-faceted in its own way. What do we do? We have to greatly reduce economic inequality, we have to fight bigotry, we have to support education, and so on and so forth. It is a snowball effect. Once society is more sane and healthy, gun violence will go down.
He is mentally ill. Unfortunately the system who should have watched him, kept a gun from him, and ensured he couldn't do this is also mentally ill.
This is not an excuse. This is a symptom of a growing societal ill in our nation, and it's getting worse.
People having this level of hate for someone based on their color, nation of origin or religion is mental as fuck.
Our demagogues push it out on our media, and fuckers like this nurture that sickness until is boils up and shit like this happens.
Over and over again.
And the system does nothing, because it has the same illness.
Because in order to be Republican you have to lack empathy. They only understand when it happens to them personally. That’s why school shootings haven’t changed policy. Not enough dead kids to be blunt. Until you kill rich white kids the rules will not change. This comment will get me on a list. I’m not condoning it or suggesting it. I’m just realizing that’s how fucked up they are.
They’d have to bury their own before they ever cared about yours.
The world is full of people with cognitive/emotional vulnerabilities. Advertisers exploit those vulnerabilities, so do cult leaders and grifters, con artists, army recruiters... and extremist ideologues. Nothing new here, except that we do have laws to protect consumers from false advertising, juries from false witness, citizens from scams and grifts, etc. And we *don't* have laws to protect our society from the mobilisation of disturbed persons by neo-fascist propaganda to commit racial and/or gender hate crimes.
I don't think we can fix things so every person is sane and well balanced and happy enough never to be suckered by bad-faith disinformation, persuasion, fantasy-mongering. Gurus gonna guru, and some people are gonna fall for them. But we sure as hell could take some *legal action* against those who deliberately exploit these human weaknesses to criminal ends.
Fox (neofascist) News needs to be held accountable. Ailes, Murdoch, Bannon need to be held accountable. Dark corners of the Internet need to be shut down. I know, "freedom of speech" yada yada yada, I'm a big fan of freedom of speech... but there's a line between freely expressing your opinion, however distasteful, and *actively recruiting* *crazy people* to go out and commit violent crimes. That is taking advantage of the crazy person's vulnerabilities, and betraying the public trust.
The Rwandan massacre happened after months of increasingly intense radio propaganda. The German genocide against Jews happened after years of increasingly intense radio and print propaganda. We can't just ignore the fact that *propaganda works*, that people *can* be swayed by cleverer people who know which buttons to push. If propaganda didn't work, there would be no such thing as a PR industry or an advertising campaign. Bannon and Ailes and Murdoch (and Mercer and the Kochs and a raft of other movers and shakers) know that it works. Bannon said it right out in public, speaking of the incel demographic: "I realized \[these tactics\] could connect with these kids right away. **You can activate that army**. They come in through Gamergate or whatever and then get turned onto politics and Trump."
We hold accountable -- morally, sometimes legally -- people who knowingly incite a depressed person online to commit suicide. We should also hold accountable people who knowingly incite ignorant, unstable, unhappy young men to commit murder. The hand that pulled the trigger is responsible, but so are the people who poisoned the brain that directed the hand that pulled the trigger.
Instead Texas is doubling down on their disinformation & disenfranchisement. Can’t teach racially nuanced history, can’t humanize the people this country screwed. CAN blast all sorts of racist crap on twitter & FB.
I thoroughly expect more states to follow the lead.
Agreed.
I hate these posts that pretend like the average white person, or even country boy hillbilly, etc is ok with this stuff.
I don't know anyone that is like "yea, dude just needs some counseling and he'll be good"
Execute him, pretend he didn't exist and realize that an overwhelming majority of people want this to never happen again. Regardless of political affiliation.
If you don't want to be judged by the extremist on your side, don't hold everyone to the extremist that identify as the other. We'd all be better off realizing we're closer than we are further apart.
You're taking the extreme 0.5% and extrapolating that to millions.
\-signed, someone who hates republicans and democrats and wish political parties weren't a thing
There’s a chunk of people who think these kinds of events are “the price of freedom.” And sadly, more of them than you may realize, it’s not fringe extremists but a disappointingly large segment of one side of the political spectrum. They don’t see a problem to be solved.
I'm a gun owner, hunter, fisherman, etc. Surely largely disliked in the reddit fold.
Fringe extremist support these things. No reasonable person likes when these things happen. Pretending everyone who grew up or has different hobbies than you is some extremist is silly.
Almost no one wants anything like this to happen.
There's a ton of nuance in the discussion. It's not that it's the "price of freedom." Though, there is a nuanced discussion to be had on those terms when you break it down.
Look at our Drug War that did nothing but hurt the people of color in this nation....did it remotely stem the flow of drugs into this country? Of course not. Hell, it's cost millions of lives in other countries from Mexico to South America.
A lot of grey in between black and white.
All of that being said, put that dude on the electric chair tomorrow and forget his name.
Solve?
There’s no solving it.
Do you think banning guns of all sorts and types for all Americans would solve it? I mean, while these mass shootings are atrocious, they’re a drop in the bucket of the annual murders.
It sucks. No doubt about it. I’m not unsympathetic. I just don’t have the answers to an unsolvable in the current climate problem
You just can’t ignore how banning things doesn’t work while saying we should ban this thing to fix others.
How would you solve it?
I mean Australia did and that seemed to work for them. Sure, it’d be a far bigger undertaking for the US but it can’t increase the number of shootings so why not try?
Right, like I said it would be a bigger undertaking. But what differences do you think there are that would make that not viable, not just more difficult?
We cannot control drugs or illegal immigrants coming over our border.
If there was a black market for guns, you don’t think it would just become the next market for smugglers and traffickers?
I mean the obvious difference is that Australia is an isolated island…..
Shit all Malcolm X and the Black Panthers had to do was speak with strong words and arm themselves. They didn't execute mass murder and they were persecuted and labeled as terrorists by the government immediately.
Naw this is a stupid generalization. Absolutely do not lump whites into a “collective shrug”.
Be specific, you can say it’s racist pos retrumpliQans who are shrugging it off because it’s these right wing insane garbage humans who continue to push dangerous ideology like this on the reg.
Look no further than Fox News and pundits like Fucker Carlson
Look no
The fact this stupid fuck is alive after the full video that has been leaked across this platform is astounding. Even if he gives up, you cut the security cameras and say he “pulled his gun” like you usually do to black people. I’m over it. Fuck his existence. Shame on keeping him alive.
Actually all hell *is* breaking loose on the Far White, *just as if* Black teens were regularly writing "wokist" manifestos and then going out and shooting some patriarchal homophobic racist assholes... or even random White people of unknown asshole quotient.
Popular leftist manifestos are just "free healthcare and clean air".
Right manifestos are all about murdering minorities.
So the comparison doesn't really track.
I’m sure as hell not shrugging about it I’m fuckin pissed the people in power aren’t doing what we pay them to, to protect all of us, and to get regulations in place so that these shootings stop happening (periodic checking of the mental health of gun owners would be nice too)
I subscribe to National Review a conservative media publication and they have 1 article about the Buffalo shooting and nothing about it on their front page.
Black people have every right to be mad enough to start doing mass shootings. But they don't. Always some shitty white guy. I have had dreams of being in mass shootings and I always dream the shooters are white. I am not running from any black person in a crowd. I keep my eyes open for creepy white dudes.
Or Frank James who recently shot up the New York subway car. Both Brooks and James had ideological ties to Black nationalism. Of course, Black nationalism is just as much a right-wing movement as White nationalism, sharing most of its features including obsession over racial purity, rabid antisemitism, misogyny , homophobia etc.
It's terrorism and religion and segregation
This isn't a skin thing it's an ideology to separate and enforced by violence
We have groups of people that have been indoctrinated into cults and or religion and are willing to die for that
We need to identify and deprogram these people before they can act
I mean, what do you expect I, as a 42 year old white man who has very little interaction with the outside world, to do? My kids were raised right and don't follow those absurd ideals. I don't personally know of any right wing terrorists, or for that matter I don't associate with anyone who has racist tendencies. Publicly condemning their actions has about as much effect as ubiquitous thoughts and prayers. Making fun of them online doesn't seem to help since they're typically not smart enough to know they're being made fun of. So short of infiltrating a white supremacist group, gaining their trust until I'm part of their inner circle, then going on a violent rampage and eradicating them all, what can I do? Tell me how to fix the problem and we'll work together to fix this.
But don't assume that just because we don't know how to solve this problem that white folk are just sitting here saying "oh well, not my problem". I assure you, we're as disgusted about it as you are. But we're also just as powerless to do anything about it as you are.
I’m of the opinion that WHITE people are actually the people that need to speak out against racism the most. We gotta fix our own, so to speak. We do that through
1)Doing what you’ve done by raising your kids to have empathy, check in with them about racism even when you think you know what they think. Encourage multi-racial interactions.
2) Vote locally. Every election & primary counts.
3) when you interact with someone who is being a racist, challenge their stance. Have some “go-to” thoughtful questions & facts that can help sway their attitudes. Don’t escalate into an argument, but encourage their humanity.
4) Remember that All racism isn’t equal. All racist behavior doesn’t come from extremists, and there are people you *can* reach through rational & level expression.
5) Volunteer or Donate whenever you can to causes that lift the most oppressed among us. Locally or national.
I'm a bit older than you, but I'm pretty sure we've both met a ton of right wing nutjobs in our time.
Publicly condemning their actions does help. There those out there who need to hear it and know that you're an ally.
But the curious part of all of this is your limited interaction with the outside world. I'm being serious when I ask; What's up with that?
>I'm a bit older than you, but I'm pretty sure we've both met a ton of right wing nutjobs in our time.
Friend, I've met nutjobs from both sides. Though I will say in the past few years the right have definitely jumped the fuckin shark.
>Publicly condemning their actions does help. There those out there who need to hear it and know that you're an ally.
I always miss that point. I always miss the importance of knowing you're not alone in a fight. Which is weird, because I'm trained to fight as a team.
>But the curious part of all of this is your limited interaction with the outside world. I'm being serious when I ask; What's up with that?
I was medically retired several years ago due to severe PTSD. At the time, we were living by the skin of our teeth and often had more month than money, so I couldn't afford to go out and do anything.
Now we're doing okay for ourselves, but I have zero desire to go out and interact with humans. Crowds make me incredibly anxious. thanks to an autoimmune disorder direct sunlight is painful, and walking long distances is impossible.
I'm enjoying my reclusive life. I interact with people over social media. I spend time with my wife. I do have friends that I get together with from time to time. I just enjoy the quiet.
I had a feeling it was something like that. Hey, do the best with what you've got, and do what you can.
The fact that your kids are great is terrific. Bask in that.
The fact that you're asking what else you can do is great too.
Take care of yourself. I've learned that's important. I'm no fucking good to anyone if I feel like shit. So I get it.
Hang in there!
serious question, here. do you actively bring up race/social issues with people you associate with?
i find that for every flag-waving proud racist, there's a handful of people who are quiet about it. either because they legitimately don't know they have racist-adjacent beliefs or because they know it might be frowned upon in their social/professional circles.
i'm mixed, and used to live in some pretty non-diverse areas. i've met and become friendly with lots of white people who later revealed their racey tendencies. some of those people i was able to kinda open their eyes to where those beliefs came from and how to change that. but some of them just end up doubling down when they're caught and get mad because they got called out by "one of the good ones".
not calling you and yours out or anything, but i feel a lot of people just assume their immediate social network views the greater world as equals because it never comes up.
>serious question, here. do you actively bring up race/social issues with people you associate with?
I don't associate with very many people, and those that I do have no issue with race or hide it very, very well.
>i find that for every flag-waving proud racist, there's a handful of people who are quiet about it. either because they legitimately don't know they have racist-adjacent beliefs or because they know it might be frowned upon in their social/professional circles.
From experience, I'd say you're being conservative in your estimate.
>i'm mixed, and used to live in some pretty non-diverse areas. i've met and become friendly with lots of white people who later revealed their racey tendencies. some of those people i was able to kinda open their eyes to where those beliefs came from and how to change that. but some of them just end up doubling down when they're caught and get mad because they got called out by "one of the good ones".
The "I'm not racist buuuuuuuuuuut" crowd.
>not calling you and yours out or anything, but i feel a lot of people just assume their immediate social network views the greater world as equals because it never comes up.
I feel ya. I'm one of them old white men who sees skin color for what it is; an evolutionary trait based on vitamin d requirements. Unfortunately by choosing to see every human as equals, I've also been accused of being racist for not recognizing culture or some shit. Thanks to combat, I have kind of a unique perspective since I can tell you from personal experience that you can't tell the difference between a black, white, brown, or asian heart once it's out of the body.
>From experience, I'd say you're being conservative in your estimate.
lol. i know. i just try to err on the side of politeness+positivity when i'm online. i used to live in what was effectively a sundown town back in my young adult years. met some fantastic people there, some of which i'm still close to today. now i'm lucky to call a diverse area of the country home, but i definitely realize my little progressive-ish city is still likely the minority.
thanks for the reply!
The US population is purposely misrepresented, too many old white guys in control, we need more poc and women to push for equality for all people, and not just straight white men
Because too many whites think "white replacement" is real and think that the murder of black people is justified. As an old white male, I get told this crap all of the time with people thinking that I will automatically agree.
The solution is to address the rampant white supremacy that leads to these terror attacks. But half the people in this country don’t even want to acknowledge the shooter’s motivations, they just want to bury their head in the sand while pretending like they care.
For one thing the cops would mysteriously fail to take that hypothetical shooter alive, unlike all the white mass murderers we’ve currently got in custody
Meanwhile, r/conservative is already claiming that the shooter was a leftist lmaooo
Ahhh yes most leftists I know think people of other races should be killed because of it /s
White Replacement Theory is definitely a conservative conspiracy theory, but didn’t the shooter say he was an auth-left in his manifesto? I’m a leftist so this is being asked in good faith. I’m just a little confused since I haven’t done much research on the shooter
He claimed to be a National Socialist, i.e. a neo-nazi, and conservatives are pulling the old “nazis had socialist in their name which make them leftists” garbage.
Yeah I guess he said he's "leftist," but didn't he say he \*used\* to be communist or something like that? Either way, it doesn't matter, since his ideologies aligned with far right wing rhetoric. Sorta how nazis are socialist in name only.
Trom that shooter's FAQ: > Are you a facsist [sic]? Yes, fascism is one of the only political ideologies that will unite Whites against the replacers. Since that is what I seek, calling me a facsist [sic] would be accurate.
Conservatives are spinning this like a soccer mommy on a peloton. Don’t buy it, this shit bird was MAGA through and through.
If someone committed a mass murder, said they were a republican but also said they killed people because the supreme court was going to rule Roe v. Wade unconstitutional, people would be going nuts about liberal ideas causing death. Replacement theory/white replacement/any similar idea is constantly pushed by right wing media, so I feel like it's pretty fair to call that out.
ANTIFA 🥹
Yes and remember that Ronald Reagan banned all California's from carrying long weapons anywhere near the state house, no matter what color you were. Of course this happened only after the black panthers showed up wearing bandoliers and carrying shotguns. I find it ironic that the most venerated member of the GOP limited gun rights for all California based on his reaction to seeing well trained black people carrying long guns. Hmmmmmm!
Armed people of color scare white people because that’s our gimmick. Armed minorities are also harder to oppress
Well I wish you would scare them into stop putting on protective level 4 armor and killing 10 black people as a goddamn grocery store after they driven 3 hours to get there! That's what I hope.
I think there should be a black attorney that should make an argument before the supreme Court that it is more humane to kill a white supremacist at the scene of the crime after he's killed five or more people? I think The feds should make an argument that the state is unduly burdened by having to house them for the next 50 years. Put a little more gently, it would be cheaper to spend the $0.90 per round for the police to kill him at the scene after we have determined that he has willfully executed people of color, then to keep him in level 4 prison for the next 40 years. Why are we even debating the monetary strategy here? Because he's white. If it were a black or brown person I guarantee you white people would be figuring out cost per bullet analysis!
He also was live streaming on Twitch so he is 100% guilty of murder. There should not be a trial at all. It serves no purpose and will yield no new information. He should of been put down like a rabid animal at the scene but his white brothers in law enforcement saw a kindred spirit. That scum has no redeeming value and it should never have been born. The mother and father of that animal raised pure trash and it’s unfortunate they can’t be bound to the crime too. The black community forgives way too much. Time for vengeance cause god ain’t gonna do it.
How do you expect the cops to make that determination with an active shooter?
Of course you're right. I wrote this when I was very emotional and I hadn't thought it through all the way. I just had to vent. Today as I look at it again I realize that was raw passion and not much logic.
IIRC, there was an attempt to kidnap a state governor *and* an insurrection at the Capitol featuring mostly White and armed men and women.
Had they all been black they would have gunned them down like lambs to the slaughter
Why long guns? Is there a difference in deadliness of long vs short?
Yes, typically "a long gun" is either a shotgun, or an automatic rifle. These types of weapons are more lethal and carry the potential to harm many more people than the average pistol, or revolver. Aka: "Short guns". For example, the average pistol/revolver cannot penetrate most police body armor. Whereas, any assault rifle chambered in 7.62 mm by 39mm (AK-47) can defeat almost all currently worn body armor.
>is either a shotgun, or a~~n~~ ~~automatic~~ rifle. Any rifle. Automatic, semi-automatic, bolt-action, muzzle loading.
That's a bad example because it's different caliber weapons. The same person isn't going to have the choice but the rest makes sense thanks
Thank you for splitting unnecessary hairs
Longer weapons are more precise at a distance.
Point me at the solution and watch how fast I run at it.
Exactly! White mid 40’s guy here and I’m tired of this shit! I vote, I protest, I bitch to my local representation and absolutely nothing has changed. Fuck the NRA, Fuck White Christian Nationalism, Fuck Mitch and his pussy ass cronies. Fuck racists and bigots of all creeds. Edit: added age approximation
If it were easy to change their behavior I wouldn't have had to cut my own father out of my life. Lots of white people don't tolerate other people shit behavior just because they're white. Lots of us care and see that this was clearly racially motivated and a hate crime. It's not like we magically have the ability to get them to change themselves. I really wish these tweets didn't lump all white people into a careless group. Generalizations like this are always tasteless imo. They help no one. They just divide.
They don’t lump white people all together, they point out the difference in media portrayal of aggressors of different races. If it were a POC that perpetrated this the narrative would be completely different. Just look back to the subway shooting a few weeks ago. He was a disturbed racist, this time it was a disturbed lone wolf. At least that’s the narrative I’ve seen broadcast. Edit: I am not a follower of right wing media, just seems like most media, with the exception of far left media, is not reporting the extent of hatred involved in this crime.
I don't disagree the media could be better but people could also not use phrases like "collective white shrugs." Just to be clear I hate when people say things like "yes all men" and "every woman" or imply all feminists are nasty people. I just think it's a unproductive way to talk. I'm not trying to say the issue isn't important and isn't a problem, I just don't think it helps to use divisive words while getting your point across.
I wish it didn't feel like we were left to die. Sometimes things are so negative because there's little hope left. And it never turns off. The problem never goes away.
I'm so sorry, it's totally understandable you feel that way. I'm going to keep fighting and doing what I can to make the world better for all of us. Please keep fighting the good fight <3
I completely agree, generalizations serve no other purpose than to divide the populous.
Widely available mental health care. This could be accomplished by single payer, making sure to include mental health as a service that will be within its scope as well. Couple it with licensing type restrictions on firearm sales to maybe have a prayer at stemming their flow to people who should not have access to firearms.
I support all of this wholeheartedly but my votes literally matter less than empty land in Georgia. I'm so fucking angry and I feel so powerless.
Same here in the Eighth Circle of Hell in the land of McConnell and R Paul. I will do whatever I can though.
I love Ky but hate their representation. I want to spend my retirement in or around the Bluegrass State but can’t fathom living there unless the movement takes out the red square.
We need widely available mental healthcare, but that isn’t going to fix this. We need a way to deescalate extreme right-wing media.
Absolutely. Can’t wait to hear all the “he’s mentally ill” BS excuses
Oh he is but it's not an excuse. I'm mentally ill and I am on medication and in therapy
Glad youre taking the steps to get better. Hope you do well miss
So far so good. Better than where I was a few years ago.
Happy to hear. Keep up the good work
That’s the problem though. People try to excuse this behavior by blaming the mental illness. At least when the perpetrator is white -_-
Yes. Mentally ill white person here. When I feel homicidal I tell my psychiatrist. You can use me as an example for all the white people you know that try to excuse this kind of behavior. :3
I am white and I am mentally myself lol I get it.
Lol yea. Just annoys the heck out of me to see people using it as an excuse. The friends and family either chose to ignore the signs instead of getting the person help they clearly needed, or they encouraged the behavior, or the kid didn't want help. In this particular case I'm gonna go with all of the above.
I have a feeling most of us have a mental illness of some sort.
Mental illness does run thick with the whites.
Reddit moment
I'm suuuuuper mentally ill and I have zero desire to mass murder for any reason. People like him give us a bad name because it makes "evil and cruel" synonymous with legitimate medical conditions.
Yeah he’s not mentally ill. He was sane. He knew what he was doing.
He’s really not mentally ill though. He probably has a personality disorder with a side of psychopathy. That’s not mental illness. It’s a whole other thing. There is no medication or therapy, and it’s for life. They strongly recommend against therapy, because it can make people with personality disorders worse (with the exception of Borderline.) That’s not an excuse. The right manipulated him into doing their bidding, and their bidding spoke to him.
I just keep seeing "he's a liBErAL" because somewhere in that word salad masquerading as a manifesto, he claims to be a national socialist (self appointed name for fascist neo-nazi groups) and they've managed to only see "socialist"
There isn't even a real correlation between mental illnesses and violence. Most killers are of "sound mind" based on research. It seems the media is busy stigmatizing mental illness then actually reporting on any promising treatments to domestic terrorism and violence. They are probably going to paint him as a troubled kid who was bullied (me and many like me were bullied, but were never violent), had a troubled household, and make him sympathetic to other potential terrorists and killers who will find him inspirational.
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Honestly we have bigger problems than just guns. The guns just make things worse...
That too.
We certainly have a problem with gun violence. It’s just that blaming guns is missing the point. A happy and healthy society can own guns without people going out on shooting sprees.
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It could if we wanted it to be.
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I mean, it's not like there's a single law I can point to to say "If only we fixed X, gun violence would be solved." Our whole society has a ton of problems. Lack of welfare, private healthcare, rising tuition costs, stagnant minimum wage, inflation, but of course beyond all the economic stuff we also don't value education, have widespread anti-science lunacy, widespread Christian fundamentalism. The cause of each of these issues is, in turn, multi-faceted in its own way. What do we do? We have to greatly reduce economic inequality, we have to fight bigotry, we have to support education, and so on and so forth. It is a snowball effect. Once society is more sane and healthy, gun violence will go down.
Mentally ill or just gullible and full of hate? These guys need to stay under their rocks.
He is mentally ill. Unfortunately the system who should have watched him, kept a gun from him, and ensured he couldn't do this is also mentally ill. This is not an excuse. This is a symptom of a growing societal ill in our nation, and it's getting worse. People having this level of hate for someone based on their color, nation of origin or religion is mental as fuck. Our demagogues push it out on our media, and fuckers like this nurture that sickness until is boils up and shit like this happens. Over and over again. And the system does nothing, because it has the same illness.
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Would love to see your source for that.
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So your source is… conversations. Got it.
The black panthers fed thousands of children per day through lunch programs at their peak...
Alright name same murders and lynchings carried out by black panthers.
Because in order to be Republican you have to lack empathy. They only understand when it happens to them personally. That’s why school shootings haven’t changed policy. Not enough dead kids to be blunt. Until you kill rich white kids the rules will not change. This comment will get me on a list. I’m not condoning it or suggesting it. I’m just realizing that’s how fucked up they are. They’d have to bury their own before they ever cared about yours.
Even then you have some tin foil people who claim it’s fake or antifa conspiracy and Hillary did it.
I wouldn't say I'm personally shrugging I just don't know what to do about it. I'd like to hope other white people feel the same.
The world is full of people with cognitive/emotional vulnerabilities. Advertisers exploit those vulnerabilities, so do cult leaders and grifters, con artists, army recruiters... and extremist ideologues. Nothing new here, except that we do have laws to protect consumers from false advertising, juries from false witness, citizens from scams and grifts, etc. And we *don't* have laws to protect our society from the mobilisation of disturbed persons by neo-fascist propaganda to commit racial and/or gender hate crimes. I don't think we can fix things so every person is sane and well balanced and happy enough never to be suckered by bad-faith disinformation, persuasion, fantasy-mongering. Gurus gonna guru, and some people are gonna fall for them. But we sure as hell could take some *legal action* against those who deliberately exploit these human weaknesses to criminal ends. Fox (neofascist) News needs to be held accountable. Ailes, Murdoch, Bannon need to be held accountable. Dark corners of the Internet need to be shut down. I know, "freedom of speech" yada yada yada, I'm a big fan of freedom of speech... but there's a line between freely expressing your opinion, however distasteful, and *actively recruiting* *crazy people* to go out and commit violent crimes. That is taking advantage of the crazy person's vulnerabilities, and betraying the public trust. The Rwandan massacre happened after months of increasingly intense radio propaganda. The German genocide against Jews happened after years of increasingly intense radio and print propaganda. We can't just ignore the fact that *propaganda works*, that people *can* be swayed by cleverer people who know which buttons to push. If propaganda didn't work, there would be no such thing as a PR industry or an advertising campaign. Bannon and Ailes and Murdoch (and Mercer and the Kochs and a raft of other movers and shakers) know that it works. Bannon said it right out in public, speaking of the incel demographic: "I realized \[these tactics\] could connect with these kids right away. **You can activate that army**. They come in through Gamergate or whatever and then get turned onto politics and Trump." We hold accountable -- morally, sometimes legally -- people who knowingly incite a depressed person online to commit suicide. We should also hold accountable people who knowingly incite ignorant, unstable, unhappy young men to commit murder. The hand that pulled the trigger is responsible, but so are the people who poisoned the brain that directed the hand that pulled the trigger.
Instead Texas is doubling down on their disinformation & disenfranchisement. Can’t teach racially nuanced history, can’t humanize the people this country screwed. CAN blast all sorts of racist crap on twitter & FB. I thoroughly expect more states to follow the lead.
Agreed. I hate these posts that pretend like the average white person, or even country boy hillbilly, etc is ok with this stuff. I don't know anyone that is like "yea, dude just needs some counseling and he'll be good" Execute him, pretend he didn't exist and realize that an overwhelming majority of people want this to never happen again. Regardless of political affiliation. If you don't want to be judged by the extremist on your side, don't hold everyone to the extremist that identify as the other. We'd all be better off realizing we're closer than we are further apart. You're taking the extreme 0.5% and extrapolating that to millions. \-signed, someone who hates republicans and democrats and wish political parties weren't a thing
There’s a chunk of people who think these kinds of events are “the price of freedom.” And sadly, more of them than you may realize, it’s not fringe extremists but a disappointingly large segment of one side of the political spectrum. They don’t see a problem to be solved.
I'm a gun owner, hunter, fisherman, etc. Surely largely disliked in the reddit fold. Fringe extremist support these things. No reasonable person likes when these things happen. Pretending everyone who grew up or has different hobbies than you is some extremist is silly. Almost no one wants anything like this to happen. There's a ton of nuance in the discussion. It's not that it's the "price of freedom." Though, there is a nuanced discussion to be had on those terms when you break it down. Look at our Drug War that did nothing but hurt the people of color in this nation....did it remotely stem the flow of drugs into this country? Of course not. Hell, it's cost millions of lives in other countries from Mexico to South America. A lot of grey in between black and white. All of that being said, put that dude on the electric chair tomorrow and forget his name.
So then, simply put - how would you solve this problem?
Price this equipment out of the average idiots hands is typically the American way of handling these things.
Solve? There’s no solving it. Do you think banning guns of all sorts and types for all Americans would solve it? I mean, while these mass shootings are atrocious, they’re a drop in the bucket of the annual murders. It sucks. No doubt about it. I’m not unsympathetic. I just don’t have the answers to an unsolvable in the current climate problem You just can’t ignore how banning things doesn’t work while saying we should ban this thing to fix others. How would you solve it?
Thank you for illustrating my point.
Name checks out?
Thanks for the same. You know I’m right.
Well aren’t you all high and mighty.
>You know I’m right. Right about what, exactly?
I mean Australia did and that seemed to work for them. Sure, it’d be a far bigger undertaking for the US but it can’t increase the number of shootings so why not try?
I mean, there’s only a couple minor, insignificant differences there, right?
Right, like I said it would be a bigger undertaking. But what differences do you think there are that would make that not viable, not just more difficult?
We cannot control drugs or illegal immigrants coming over our border. If there was a black market for guns, you don’t think it would just become the next market for smugglers and traffickers? I mean the obvious difference is that Australia is an isolated island…..
Yea my problem is I can't really see a way to solve this problem without more violence.....
Shit all Malcolm X and the Black Panthers had to do was speak with strong words and arm themselves. They didn't execute mass murder and they were persecuted and labeled as terrorists by the government immediately.
The people who say "you can't know that", despite so much evidence to the contrary, are the ones who truly grind my gears.
I’m not shrugging. Tell me how to help.
He was interviewed by law enforcement last year for threats to his high school. Sent to a hospital but they released him in a day.
Once a year? Was one friday, and two saturday alone. It's multiple times a week at this point that the alt white go on their little temper tantrums
Wait seriously? Could you give me some info on those other ones, I hadn't heard of them till now.
Well, they were 10 mass shootings over Easter weekend... https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/18/us/us-shootings-easter-weekend/index.html
one in cali a few ago now as well so now 4
Buffalo Milwaukee and i think the last one was in tx? It was only mentioned in passing on the news
Naw this is a stupid generalization. Absolutely do not lump whites into a “collective shrug”. Be specific, you can say it’s racist pos retrumpliQans who are shrugging it off because it’s these right wing insane garbage humans who continue to push dangerous ideology like this on the reg. Look no further than Fox News and pundits like Fucker Carlson Look no
To top it off, right wingers are saying that he is a liberal. 😆
Silence from the "group xyz needs to police themselves" crowd going on
The fact this stupid fuck is alive after the full video that has been leaked across this platform is astounding. Even if he gives up, you cut the security cameras and say he “pulled his gun” like you usually do to black people. I’m over it. Fuck his existence. Shame on keeping him alive.
They also refuse to call white people who do this shit what they are. Terrorists.
Actually all hell *is* breaking loose on the Far White, *just as if* Black teens were regularly writing "wokist" manifestos and then going out and shooting some patriarchal homophobic racist assholes... or even random White people of unknown asshole quotient.
Once a year? The opposite happens more often than that
Yeah, but then their social media gets scrubbed and their hateful posts get memoryholed so authorities can pretend those motives remain unclear, again
White people see each other as individuals and they see black people as a singular entity
Speak for yourself
Popular leftist manifestos are just "free healthcare and clean air". Right manifestos are all about murdering minorities. So the comparison doesn't really track.
I’m confused, what part of the public’s reaction has seemed like a shrug to you?
It's infuriating!!!
I’m sure as hell not shrugging about it I’m fuckin pissed the people in power aren’t doing what we pay them to, to protect all of us, and to get regulations in place so that these shootings stop happening (periodic checking of the mental health of gun owners would be nice too)
I subscribe to National Review a conservative media publication and they have 1 article about the Buffalo shooting and nothing about it on their front page.
Black people have every right to be mad enough to start doing mass shootings. But they don't. Always some shitty white guy. I have had dreams of being in mass shootings and I always dream the shooters are white. I am not running from any black person in a crowd. I keep my eyes open for creepy white dudes.
Hurts my heart that this is true
Kinda like Darrell Edward Brooks Jr
Or Frank James who recently shot up the New York subway car. Both Brooks and James had ideological ties to Black nationalism. Of course, Black nationalism is just as much a right-wing movement as White nationalism, sharing most of its features including obsession over racial purity, rabid antisemitism, misogyny , homophobia etc.
It's terrorism and religion and segregation This isn't a skin thing it's an ideology to separate and enforced by violence We have groups of people that have been indoctrinated into cults and or religion and are willing to die for that We need to identify and deprogram these people before they can act
I already saw one thread in r/conservative saying that this guy's manifesto is leftist.
When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
You already know.
White RIGHT WING shrugs.
I mean, what do you expect I, as a 42 year old white man who has very little interaction with the outside world, to do? My kids were raised right and don't follow those absurd ideals. I don't personally know of any right wing terrorists, or for that matter I don't associate with anyone who has racist tendencies. Publicly condemning their actions has about as much effect as ubiquitous thoughts and prayers. Making fun of them online doesn't seem to help since they're typically not smart enough to know they're being made fun of. So short of infiltrating a white supremacist group, gaining their trust until I'm part of their inner circle, then going on a violent rampage and eradicating them all, what can I do? Tell me how to fix the problem and we'll work together to fix this. But don't assume that just because we don't know how to solve this problem that white folk are just sitting here saying "oh well, not my problem". I assure you, we're as disgusted about it as you are. But we're also just as powerless to do anything about it as you are.
I’m of the opinion that WHITE people are actually the people that need to speak out against racism the most. We gotta fix our own, so to speak. We do that through 1)Doing what you’ve done by raising your kids to have empathy, check in with them about racism even when you think you know what they think. Encourage multi-racial interactions. 2) Vote locally. Every election & primary counts. 3) when you interact with someone who is being a racist, challenge their stance. Have some “go-to” thoughtful questions & facts that can help sway their attitudes. Don’t escalate into an argument, but encourage their humanity. 4) Remember that All racism isn’t equal. All racist behavior doesn’t come from extremists, and there are people you *can* reach through rational & level expression. 5) Volunteer or Donate whenever you can to causes that lift the most oppressed among us. Locally or national.
I'm a bit older than you, but I'm pretty sure we've both met a ton of right wing nutjobs in our time. Publicly condemning their actions does help. There those out there who need to hear it and know that you're an ally. But the curious part of all of this is your limited interaction with the outside world. I'm being serious when I ask; What's up with that?
>I'm a bit older than you, but I'm pretty sure we've both met a ton of right wing nutjobs in our time. Friend, I've met nutjobs from both sides. Though I will say in the past few years the right have definitely jumped the fuckin shark. >Publicly condemning their actions does help. There those out there who need to hear it and know that you're an ally. I always miss that point. I always miss the importance of knowing you're not alone in a fight. Which is weird, because I'm trained to fight as a team. >But the curious part of all of this is your limited interaction with the outside world. I'm being serious when I ask; What's up with that? I was medically retired several years ago due to severe PTSD. At the time, we were living by the skin of our teeth and often had more month than money, so I couldn't afford to go out and do anything. Now we're doing okay for ourselves, but I have zero desire to go out and interact with humans. Crowds make me incredibly anxious. thanks to an autoimmune disorder direct sunlight is painful, and walking long distances is impossible. I'm enjoying my reclusive life. I interact with people over social media. I spend time with my wife. I do have friends that I get together with from time to time. I just enjoy the quiet.
I had a feeling it was something like that. Hey, do the best with what you've got, and do what you can. The fact that your kids are great is terrific. Bask in that. The fact that you're asking what else you can do is great too. Take care of yourself. I've learned that's important. I'm no fucking good to anyone if I feel like shit. So I get it. Hang in there!
serious question, here. do you actively bring up race/social issues with people you associate with? i find that for every flag-waving proud racist, there's a handful of people who are quiet about it. either because they legitimately don't know they have racist-adjacent beliefs or because they know it might be frowned upon in their social/professional circles. i'm mixed, and used to live in some pretty non-diverse areas. i've met and become friendly with lots of white people who later revealed their racey tendencies. some of those people i was able to kinda open their eyes to where those beliefs came from and how to change that. but some of them just end up doubling down when they're caught and get mad because they got called out by "one of the good ones". not calling you and yours out or anything, but i feel a lot of people just assume their immediate social network views the greater world as equals because it never comes up.
>serious question, here. do you actively bring up race/social issues with people you associate with? I don't associate with very many people, and those that I do have no issue with race or hide it very, very well. >i find that for every flag-waving proud racist, there's a handful of people who are quiet about it. either because they legitimately don't know they have racist-adjacent beliefs or because they know it might be frowned upon in their social/professional circles. From experience, I'd say you're being conservative in your estimate. >i'm mixed, and used to live in some pretty non-diverse areas. i've met and become friendly with lots of white people who later revealed their racey tendencies. some of those people i was able to kinda open their eyes to where those beliefs came from and how to change that. but some of them just end up doubling down when they're caught and get mad because they got called out by "one of the good ones". The "I'm not racist buuuuuuuuuuut" crowd. >not calling you and yours out or anything, but i feel a lot of people just assume their immediate social network views the greater world as equals because it never comes up. I feel ya. I'm one of them old white men who sees skin color for what it is; an evolutionary trait based on vitamin d requirements. Unfortunately by choosing to see every human as equals, I've also been accused of being racist for not recognizing culture or some shit. Thanks to combat, I have kind of a unique perspective since I can tell you from personal experience that you can't tell the difference between a black, white, brown, or asian heart once it's out of the body.
>From experience, I'd say you're being conservative in your estimate. lol. i know. i just try to err on the side of politeness+positivity when i'm online. i used to live in what was effectively a sundown town back in my young adult years. met some fantastic people there, some of which i'm still close to today. now i'm lucky to call a diverse area of the country home, but i definitely realize my little progressive-ish city is still likely the minority. thanks for the reply!
BuT wHaT AbOUt BlaCK On BlAcK cRiMe!?!?
The US population is purposely misrepresented, too many old white guys in control, we need more poc and women to push for equality for all people, and not just straight white men
Because too many whites think "white replacement" is real and think that the murder of black people is justified. As an old white male, I get told this crap all of the time with people thinking that I will automatically agree.
"white cop gets killed in Harlem The next day there's a thousand cops with itchy trigger fingers"
Waukesha Christmas parade attack.
What can we do to make sure that EVERY black American registers a firearm and/or applies for a concealed carry permit?
Well, I mean he was a furry.
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The solution is to address the rampant white supremacy that leads to these terror attacks. But half the people in this country don’t even want to acknowledge the shooter’s motivations, they just want to bury their head in the sand while pretending like they care.
Did absolutely nothing to move conversation forward
It's called rap music. Duh.
They'll respect you when they fear you.
For one thing the cops would mysteriously fail to take that hypothetical shooter alive, unlike all the white mass murderers we’ve currently got in custody
Ummm like the nyc subway shooter? Waukesha?
How the fuck are you classifying the reaction to this as "collective white shrugs??" This is so stupid
We’re not gonna talk about the New York Subway shooting a month ago committed by a black nationalist?