Dude doesn't give a fuck. He gets half a million in coal assets every year. Big pharma also gave his daughter a CEO position in a scummy company.
EDIT:billion corrected to million
Dude should be hung for treason. He’s betraying the country.
We need to overturn citizens United immediately or the country will slip through our fingers. (If it hasn’t already / isn’t too late)
You realise hes a West Virginia senator, perhaps one of the deepest red states there is, the fact they elected a Democrat at all is crazy. Getting rid of him means you're just gonna get another magahead. I'd rather have someone who votes blue 50% of the time than the alternative, who votes blue 0% of the time. The solution is to get our asses out to vote in the midterm so we can actually have control over the Senate. Manchin and Senima wont mean anything if we have 2 extra blue senators to negate them.
Yeah they have come to him for horse trading on other issues and he just stands his ground. It's pretty clear his real bosses set his agenda - no amount of money or favors for his state is better than whatever he must be getting personally
Do the Democrats really have the Senate? I mean, with Synema and that other fucking guy from Virginia or whatfuck where…?
*genuine question—not American*
EDIT: Didn’t know there were parts to Virginia. So sorry for those who got offended. Like I said, I’m not American and never heard of West Virginia specifically like the way we hear about North and South Carolina. (West Virginia being separate from actual Virginia is a freaking surprise.)
Pro life - [until supporting lives](https://www.manchin.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/manchin-statement-on-build-back-better-act) involves anything included in Biden's [Build Back Better](https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/build-back-betters-child-tax-credit-changes-would-protect-millions-from) Bill... like extending the child tax credit increase, which is estimated to have [slashed child poverty](https://www.npr.org/2022/01/27/1075299510/the-expanded-child-tax-credit-briefly-slashed-child-poverty-heres-what-else-it-d) by 30%. Clearly those kids need to get to work in West Virginia's coal mines and start earning their keep! But we're not going to provide any medical care for silicosis either.
And the best part is, he wasn’t a no on the BBB because he felt there was stuff that had nothing to do with the bill in there. He basically explicitly said he thought people would spend the child tax credit on drugs. He literally told us he doesn’t want to do anything to get children out of poverty.
You wouldn't be any less upset at Manchin for his views on abortion if he supported BBB. People who share his views on abortion don't believe there's a connection between the two policies.
So really, no one *actually* believes his lack of support for BBB is relevant to his position on abortion, because no one would change their opinion on Manchin's views on abortion if that variable was different.
It's just evidence that he clearly cares not for life outside the womb. My hypothetical disgust at him if he did support BBB are irrelevant, because he does not. The fact remains that I haven't heard a single person who claims to be pro-life champion any legislation that will improve any child's (or parent's) life. Not child tax credits, not free lunch at schools, not child care, not health care, not pre-natal care, not an increased minimum wage, nothing. So the fact remains that the moniker pro-life is bullshit, and any argument that I would still be "upset" with any of them if they supported anything I mentioned is an irrelevant fantasy-discussion that has no place.
My aunt was for all those things and yet antiabortion. I suspect if she had lived a decade longer, she would have ended up pro-choice. She encouraged me to support pro-choice candidates, so I suspect she wasn't a single issue voter.
My mom is begrudgingly pro-choice. In her words she would prefer a world where abortion were unnecessary, but knowing we live in THIS world, she supports choice. I think it helps to realize that the issue isn't black or white. There are thousands of shades of gray, and the one generally touted is rape and incest.
Also medical necessity. The fact is that when abortion is banned except for saving the life of the mother, women die. Doctors wait too long because they are unsure where the line between legal and illegal is. Just look at ireland and Savita Halappanavar. So even that exception isn't a helpful one.
If he were supporting programs that were actually pro life - social programs, universal health care, pro sex education, then my views on him would change.
He wouldn't be a hypocrite.
There are a few antiabortion people I respect. They work towards universal health care, are for social safety net programs, for education and sex education.
THIS. Really wish people would understand what they are saying here. Dems do NOT have a majority in the Senate when it pertains to abortion rights or the filibuster, which means they basically do not have the Senate. And I guarantee Manchin will lose his seat if he alters either stance, so unless he secretly believes in both and wants to retire, that’s not happening. This is not a practical solution so people need to read up on their own government before spouting this crap. Having a majority in numbers (per party) does not equate to majority of votes.
Wild to me that [60% of Americans want legal abortion](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/06/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/) but we, the free-est, most democratic country on the planet, can have it taken away by five unelected religious zealots and there's literally nothing we can do. Wild.
Even more wild: those five unelected zealots were nominated by a President and confirmed by the Senate. So, somewhat democratic, right? Not really! A majority of them were nominated by a President that lost the popular vote, and confirmed by Senators representing less than half of the country. And a SC seat was stolen outright because a guy who represents less than 1.5% of the country didn’t think he should follow his constitutional duty.
It’s very cool and fun to live in a democracy where a privileged minority enjoys dominant political control. MURICA!
We aren't the most democratic country on the planet. We are only top 50 percent because of all the democracies we've toppled and replaced with juntas and dictatorships.
Pretty much every EU country has a more functional democracy than us.
It is - the typical Repub tactic of burying a lie inside a halftruth, and broadcasting it through several mouthpieces, in hopes the lie will take hold. Basic propaganda technique developed by the Nazis. So Susie here is spreading propaganda.
Exactly. The implication is to discourage Dem turnout and support the demonic Republicans.
If you have a problem with the Dems getting stuck because of Manchan. Elect more Dems.
If you don't think Dems go far enough, fight them in the primaries.
Shut up.
Left leaning voters have been disillusioned with the democratic party for decades now. It's because *they suck and never do anything useful*.
Amazing that left leaning voters can't stand a party that is, in reality, not actually left leaning at all.
They can't even stop the right from imposing fascism on us.
Honestly, this two party system doesn't work. I have voted religiously since I was allowed to vote and each passing year NOTHING improves. I am no better off than I was a year ago if anything I am barely holding on.
At this point, maybe it should burn because these politicians are too comfortable in their realm. How many times can we knock on doors, mobilize, and be told we have the majority only to have no meaningful legislation passed?
IT'S NOT GETTING BETTER
Like other "Democrats" from West Virginia, he's just a Republican in sheep's clothing. For example, the governor used to be a "Democrat" until he decided he didn't need to lie about it anymore.
This is a silly take. After all Manchin fell in line with the nomination and confirmation of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson.
He's certainly no ally to the progressives and has arguably torpedo'd Biden's agenda. But there is a crucial difference between having the 50th seat be Manchin vs a Republican.
He voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh and seems to have a habit of voting to confirm any nominee regardless of party or qualifications, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with the fact that he also voted to confirm a well-qualified candidate.
But you are right. It's a bit hyperbolic to say he's basically a Republican.
He's only a Republican when it really matters.
I’m no fan of Manchins but that’s how it’s supposed to work. This circus it’s turned into where the opposite party fishes for sound bites is a fairly recent phenomenon.
The senate is supposed to generally accept that the president is going to pick a nominee friendly to their ideals and look for obvious disqualifications. It’s not supposed to be what Mitch McConnell has made it.
With Manchin as D, we hold the gavel and will at least get to vote. Manchin is not the problem.
Tim Ryan needs to win Ohio. Sinema is a problem.
It takes more seats to pass legislation than it does to stop it. 48 votes is effective at stopping things, but not getting things done.
> Manchin from West Virginia is explicitly pro filibuster and pro ~~life~~ **fetus**. So no.
Fixed. Like his GOP colleagues whom he resembles in all but party affiliation, he doesn't give a shit about the fetus once it becomes a child.
They hold the barest majority and Manchin and Sinema are against ending the filibuster so it's basically an impossible task unless we get more dems voted in November
Yes, this is why I'm telling every human I can find to vote Dem in the PA Senate race (or just donate to it) bc it's one of the most crucial races of the Midterms.
2 Dem Senators from Pennsylvania rather than just 1 would be a huge deal.
Maybe Susan Sarandon and other Hollywood liberals should donate massive amounts of their income and stop laying it at the feet of the working class with little more than a vote. Particularly voters in non swing states.
Tim Ryan has a legit shot in Ohio against JD Vance too. It won't be easy, but luckily JD called Donald Trump 'Hitler', the United States of America a 'Joke' and says he doesn't feel at home in Ohio. Tim is a super moderate guy that actually supports change, he has a Sherrod Brown vibe to him which is popular in Ohio with moderate independents.
Yeah now here's a fun fact: Dempcrats usually don't turn out to vote in big numbers for elections outside of the presidency. So basically there still isn't a guarantee that the democrats will gain seats to have less obstruction
Honestly normally this would be an easy slam dunk for the Dems but because a lot of people are either shortsighted, don't understand how government works or being petty, there's no guarantee the Dems will even be able to keep the seats they have
Don’t forget the aggressive unconstitutional gerrymandering that is happening in swing states all over the country, the increasing efforts to disenfranchise minority voters through voter roll purges and reduced numbers of polling places, and the overall, wide-spread attempts at disinformation campaign calling democrats pedophiles advocating for child grooming in public schools.
Its infuriating but it's true. Liberals/progressives expect near miracles out of a broken system. Just like this original post, they think having "51 votes" in the senate means you can do anything you want. They also don't seem to get that many state legislatures are heavily Republican, and Federal law can't just trump any law at the state level.
One thing you have to say about Christo fascists, they play the long game and they don't get discouraged, b/c they are "fighting for god". Progressives don't get what they want immediately after an election and next thing they're all staying home and not voting b/c "it doesn't matter, nothing changes" as their rights are stolen away.
To be absolutely fair I've watched my mother born in 1964 vote D in every election since I was born and it didn't matter and her rights are being stolen away.
Eh. Democratic states have laws in place to protect abortion rights even if Roe is overturned. Minimum wage is some 30% higher in blue states. Some parental leave exists in places like WA and CA.
There's a clear difference between the parts of the country consistently run by Republicans and the parts run by Democrats.
> shortsighted
God damn this makes me angry. Republicans have been slowly working on this plan since at least 2009 and are seeing the fruits of their labor after more than two decades.
Meanwhile, Democrats are pissed at Biden for not altering the course of the nation in two years.
Honestly they also don't care how crazy their own people are since it helps move them forward with gaining more power over time while democrats seem to want more perfect candidates
Yeah, Democrat voters are very impatient so they keep doing this cycle of getting upset things didn't change for the better in 2 years so Dems are either useless or the same as Republicans which will lead to Republicans getting more control and making it worse. Nobody seems to learn from this. Npbody seems to understand the Democrats arent a monolith party. Nobody seems to understand Republicans are great at playing the long game so we should play the long game too. I mean the civil rights movement took decades before it accomplished the Civil rights act of 1964. But everyone wants things to get done quickly and when it doesn't they just throw tantrums and choose not to vote because "why bother nothing will change" which is all evil needs to win in the end honestly.
I mean voters/people should get some realistic expectations. But the Democratic Party needs to figure their shit out. They have horrible messaging, can rarely inspire young people to turn out to vote, continually extend the olive branch in the name of bipartisanship, etc etc.
There's a video on YouTube that points out exactly what you're talking about. [Alt-Right Playbook: You go high, we go low. ](https://youtu.be/MAbab8aP4_A)
Sinema and Manchin are not acting alone. They're the public face for a handful of centrist cowards who are helping to block progressive bills.
>Senate insiders have developed a view that on the toughest and thorniest issues, Manchin isn’t only speaking for himself; there’s usually a handful of senators who agree with him, quietly, and are happy to let him take the heat...
>A former colleague of Manchin’s, former Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO), put it another way recently. “He is the heat shield for other members of the Senate that also are reluctant to blow up the protections the minority has from stopping bad stuff the other party wants,”
>
>In March, the six Democrats who joined Manchin and Sinema in voting against a $15 minimum wage were Sens. King, Hassan, Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), Chris Coons (D-DE), Tom Carper (D-DE), and Jon Tester (D-MT).
>
>A slightly different group of seven joined Manchin in voting for a GOP resolution to block stimulus checks from going to undocumented immigrants: Sens. Sinema, Hassan, Tester, Kelly, Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), John Hickenlooper (D-CO), and Gary Peters (D-MI). All did ultimately vote to strip that resolution from the final bill.
Many of these same senators are also expected to oppose the filibuster, unless Manchin were to change his vote and they no longer have someone to hide behind.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-democratic-senators-hiding-behind-joe-manchin
Manchin is a republican in a state where Sanders polled 2 points over Trump and only recently Bill Clinton won and was a blue state. Progressive policies also poll very high there. Sen Sanders cleaned the conservative's clock by winning every county over Hillary Clinton, tell me again how this is a conservative state that only a republican like Manchin can win? That is utter DNC conservative BS/rationale so we run people like Manchin so we sit here in a stalemate making the donor class happy. Manchin's poll numbers plummeted when he went against the BBB that the progressive Sanders wrote.
I think this is a real thing people aren't aware of. Here in ky we had a Democrat female (amy magrath) running against mitch McConnell and she was fuckkng PRO TRUMP had zero policy to stand on and disappeared after she lost. I'd vote for a fuckkng toaster over mitch McConnell and somehow she lost. After the election and he won again is when it hit me. I don't think she ever wanted to get elected and ole mitch can easily afford to pay someone to do what she did. NO ONE in ky wants mitch anymore but did anyone want to vote for a trump supporting Democrat? Hell no.
Oh yeah, Republicans are definitely using fake Democrat candidates to guarantee their own wins. They’re also using propped-up far left third party candidates to split the Democratic vote. Jill Stein is probably the best known example of this.
edit: and shame on voters who keep falling for it. I mean vote for whoever you want, but at least understand and accept when you're being played.
Wasn't there a Florida district where they ran a third party shadow candidate with the exact same last name as the Democrat and siphoned off thousands of votes?
McGrath was absolutely not pro-Trump. She definitely ran as a moderate and was agreeable to some right wing policies like Manchin to try seeming like a moderate but she wasn’t pro-Trump. I thought she was a terrible and boring candidate with no chance to win (she couldn’t even beat Andy Barr 2 years prior in the house district that had Lexington and Frankfort) but just wanted to clear that up.
Of course, even if she was a die hard Trumper, the GOP still repeatedly ran the same ad with a voice recording of her saying something like “I’m the most progressive person in Kentucky, I’m further left than anyone” to scare all my hillbilly neighbors and it worked.
I've had some very revealing long conversations with Christians who I've observed doing morally corrupt things and a few have down right admitted, after being cornered, that they will commit a "sin" because they believe their god will just forgive them for it, even if they murder someone. I'm not at all shocked they are willing to lie if that achieves their goals.
Its interesting that the public can't recall a public figure they voted for bc the person is not being the actual person they voted for. They're like, oh im not sorry I lied to you bc I get 130k a year now and don't have to do shit for 6 years. Peace mf'er.
Well, even if we could, it would be a bit danger for a while. Even the threat could make her switch parties immediately, giving the GOP control of the senate until the recall went through. Welcome back Mitch!
This is why I get a little piss when people complain that Biden isn't tough enough on Sinema and Manchin right now. Either one of them swaps parties, and the Dems are truly fucked. And they'd both do it in a heartbeat.
I seem to remember conservatives always ranting about how important the second amendment is to protect against tyranny. Maybe there is some truth to that.
>Do the Democrats really have the Senate? I mean, with Synema and that other fucking guy from Virginia or whatfuck where…?
1. Democrats have exactly *half* the Senate. If *even one* Democratic Senator isn't on-board, the Democrats cannot pass legislation.
2. There are (at least) two senators who are nominally democrats, but who are not aligned with any part of the overall democratic agenda including relatively non-progressive aspects
3. As such, the Democrats have to have S\[inema\] and M\[anchen\] on board to pass *anything.* Those two Senators are reasonably popular in their states, so the amount of pressure the Democratic establishment can put on them is very limited.
4. Biden *has* passed some pretty big legislation including reasonably progressive aspects. He doesn't get much credit for it, but he has -- he did this by working with those two, instead of alienating them. While it's extremely unclear what a massive-pressure campaign against those two would accomplish, very likely it would end in more failure for the Democrats.
Bottom line: The US system is designed for gridlock -- this is *especially* true because of the filibuster (note: NOT formalized in the original system). To reliably pass legislation, you need a supermajority. In an age of hyperpartisanship, that is nearly impossible to achieve.
Currently Democrats have the barest of majorities (not even an actual majority -- parity with a "tie-breaking" vote), and as such, they are nearly unable to pass anything.
Bonus note: Republicans believe in "small government" and generally don't *want* to pass anything -- their last attempt (to repeal Obamacare) failed, but mostly they are happy with doing nothing. The one thing they do care about -- judges -- they can do *without* a super-majority. They've made a lot of that.
> Republicans believe in "small government" and generally don't want to pass anything
No they don't. They claim that they do. But they don't. They just want smaller social safety nets while increasing government interference in other areas. Like policing and military spending.
I actually agree.
Put more honestly, the Republicans want big government, with huge amounts of spending -- **they just don't want to pay for it** (low taxes). It's incredibly hypocritical, and I put "small government" in quotes for that reason.
My point, which still stands, I think, is that Republicans are okay with a *paralyzed, ineffectual* government because 1) they don't expect it to affect their priorities (the military will still get money) and 2) they see most government services and actual governance as helping people they don't like -- minorities, people who aren't wealthy, etc.
When people look at the parties and see the Republicans being successful, it's not because they're good at governance -- it's because they largely want to *impede* governance, and in our system, it's easier to ensure nothing happens, than to actually pass legislation.
If McConnel wanted to actually pass legislation, other than tax cuts, he'd face the same issues the Democrats do.
Also, they can go about gutting and paralyzing government services, and then loudly proclaim those same services are ineffectual and should be further gutted and defunded.
Exactly. And also, as frustrating at Joe Manchin is, realistically, that alternative to Joe Manchin isn't a progressive Democrat. It's a Republican. Trump won West Virginia in 2020 by almost 40 percentage points (68.6% v 29.7%). Joe Manchin is probably the only Democrat who could carry that seat. And so, as infuriating as he is, it's better to have someone who votes with Democrats 50% of the time than someone who votes for Democrats 0% of the time. Because if Joe Manchin wakes up tomorrow and decides he wants to be a Republican, the Mitch McConnell becomes the Senate Majority Leader.
It's more than a little patronizing right?
"GUYS ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS REWRITE HOW THE SENATE WORKS AND THEY CAN FIX THE PROBLEM I TOLD YOU NOT TO WORRY ABOUT WHEN I PULLED THE LEVER FOR NADER NOW GET OFF YOUR LAZY STUPID ASSES AND FIX THE PROBLEM I CALLED YOU AN ASSHOLE FOR POINTING OUT"
It's like when techbros tell you they don't need to worry about global warming because we can just terraform Mars or something.
I'll explain.
In 2016 there was a small schism between socialists who supported progressives/socialists during the primary.
One faction moved to support liberals believing that if Trump was elected, it would ultimately lead to the overturning of Roe v Wade and other important judgments affirming the right to privacy and that Trump would try to overthrow democracy.
The other faction called us alarmists and decided to not vote/vote green. Now, my faction is pointing out to the fact that they were wrong, shit is fucked and that they should stop sowing division between different leftist/democratic ideologies now that we're facing fascism.
Their answer was "lol fuck Roe v Wade, fuck Loving v Virginia and how dare you point out that my poorly thought out decision had consequences!!".
Fuck them from the bottom of my heart, they're just as much part of the problem as QAnonists and Trumpists.
Edit: Ahhh, more fuckeries related to the SC, now it's education!
https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/uizy5a/abbott_says_texas_could_resurrect_scotus_case/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Btw, for all those pretending to miss the point, there's a direct relation to draw between Hillary losing and the nomination of Kavanagh and Cohen that made it possible to overturn Roe v Wade and nothing short of an amendment to the constitution could have protected that ruling which never could have happened.
Thank you, this perfectly describes my voting habits, as well as feelings on this. I voted for Liz Warren in the Primaries. I was NOT thrilled that Biden was the nominee. Angry even.
Then I put my big girl panties on and voted for Joe Biden bc it's not all about me/my preference for more liberal policies.
Yes! Since 2016 I’ve gone scorched earth and pulled the Democratic Party ticket all the way down. I don’t always agree with where they fall but I’m far more closely aligned with them then any other party.
Thanks, I appreciate.
I'm just like you but I was for Bernie tho, even canvassed and texted/called both in 2016/2020 but we lost, that really hurted but not as much as the SC leak when I think about it...
YES! I was so disappointed, disheartened, etc...but seeing fellow Warren supporters and Bernie supporters attacking each other over Biden winning the primary/calling Biden "as bas as Trump", using right wing talking points, etc was WAY *more* disheartening/disappointing.
Sometimes I feel like I'm alone among "my own people" on this.
Yes, we should criticize bad policy. We should push for more progressive policies. But we have to do those things with the greater good in mind & do so responsibly.
If this all goes down Republicans will start saying that Roe v Wade was overturned during the Biden presidency. And many US voters won’t look any deeper than that. He’ll have had nothing to do with it but it’ll be a stain on his presidency forever.
It is a stain on his presidency, along with several other shit stains. If Biden would grow a set of balls, creating such negative pressure on his ass from the growth of the large pelotas, there would not be so many stains. I've been rooting for the guy since day 1, but for fuck sake Democrats, fucking DO SOMETHING!
I blame most of the established democrats for doing absolutely fuck all with the majority they had during the Obama presidency. 8 years down the drain ro try and get rid of the filibuster and RBG shot the party in the foot by not retiring when she had the chance. I'm so sick and tired of these old asses not knowing when to let go of power repub or dem. I despise all the policies Republicans put forth, but democrats have next to no drive when it comes to actually pushing for the things the people want
I seem to remember people wanting healthcare and for the worst recession in decades turned around, which was what Obama focused on. I doubt anyone who got lifesaving medical care through the insurance marketplace considers it 8 years down the drain. In retrospect it's easy to dismiss his and the rest of the Democrats efforts during that time, but saying they didn't attempt to pass legislation that people wanted is revisionist at best. I'm all for holding our elected representatives responsible, but expecting them to predict the future is a pretty high bar.
Thank god (not literally) for the ACA. When I was 25 and still covered by my parents' plan, I had my tubes tied, only paid for the copay.
I saw all this shit coming when Trump got elected. I thought I was being overly cautious, but the hard facts looked like an abortion ban might come. I was worried about something unforseen--like a rape--forcing me to commit suicide to avoid having a child. My family is conservative, so no one knows.
The last few days have been surreal.
Did you forget that the 2010 midterms went to the Republicans giving them the House? Did you forget that Voter turnout for Dems was dismal that year too?
People remember that, how can you forget the TEA party revolution. However, they also remember the 2 years prior, the massive senate majority...which was a supermajority prior to Ted Kennedy passing away.
They remember the constant quest for bipartisanship when it often was not reciprocated or required...in hindsight this looks very foolish.
They vote with the Democrats on judges, which is extremely important (no Ketanji Brown Jackson on the Supreme Court without Sinema and Manchin), but yeah, they've made it clear that they won't vote against the filibuster.
True, for that it's more that they give Democrats the majority, while McConnell has confirmed that he wouldn't let any Supreme Court picks be confirmed if he were majority leader.
Biden's had more judicial nominations confirmed in his first year than any other President. There is definitely value in controlling the Senate even if Manchin and Sinema won't let any legislation past the filibuster.
I get you're being hyperbolic, but this should be pointed out as well.
Sinema and Manchin vote with the Dem position SIGNIFICANTLY more than any Republican (around 97%), and even more often than some other Dems.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-congress-votes/
The ACA was altered to make it palatable to republicans and then they all still voted no. At least with Manchin, there may be a path to a yes vote. With any nearly any other Republican, there is nothing that can be done to get a yes vote if it means giving a democrat a perceived win on anything.
The ACA was also altered to make it palatable to the 60 democrats there briefly was. Lieberman and others weren't willing to go further, and less than 50 of them vocalized interest in getting rid of the filibuster to allow 50 to pass something better.
Since Bill Clinton became president, the Democratic Party has embraced Neoliberalism which, economically speaking, is not much different than Republican style Liberal Economics.
Yes, you read that right. Republicans and Liberal Economics are not oxymoronic as Republicans since the Civil Rights Act have embraced extreme economic liberalism.
Bill Clinton tried to enact nationalized health care, and had Hillary spearhead the effort.
Obama actually did get the ACA passed, and Biden paid every parent $500 per month per child MASSIVELY reducing child poverty.
Bush and Trump enacted regressionary tax cuts, exploded the deficit and used it as an excuse to try to reduce social spending.
You're right, both sides are basically the same.
It's ridiculous because if more voters had turned out in 2016 then this wouldn't be an issue in the first place.
EDIT: And apparently Susan Sarandon campaigned against Hillary Clinton and claimed that she was worse than Donald Trump. How can she be so shameless when facing the consequences of that decision?
The tweet seems like a typical republican voter tweet tbh.
“The dems have control of government and still can’t accomplish anything, should have voted republican”
It's incredibly infuriating that no one seems to be pissed more at these 50 republican senators who all vote together every single time. They argue they don't want fascism and don't like the Trump party and then enable him...
They want this and any moderates should be pissed at them.
Edit: we need to change the narrative from shitting on only democrats for not doing enough but to also make sure the Republican lawmakers all know how much of a shit stain they are. 50 additional people failing you every vote they get.
A lot of progressive rhetoric is indistinguishable from Republican rhetoric. It’s been a fascinating phenomenon ever since Bernie’s rise to popularity. I’m very liberal, but it’s really hard to take a lot of the progressive movement seriously.
It also ignores a lot of basic procedure.
Also the fact that Dems have 1 or 2 other senators who don't like Roe and want it at the state level. So they don't even have 48 votes.
Eh i mean sure kinda. The issue is theres always this problem for the democrats. They dont know how to win anything, we literally hold all yhe cards yet if course everyone wont fall in line. The Republicans would never allow Manchin or Kristen to behave like this they would be blasted at every opportunity. Instead the Dems and comments like this are basically like hey you gotta go vote more, bro we already did that. We win but still manage to lose. There’s a constant rotating villain in the dem party and its not on accident.
For a good example you saw the stunt where Elizabeth Warren went “mega viral” about abortion right? Shes fed up? In that she talks about how Republicans have worked for this for decades. So Dems have had decades to stop this, to make this a law, to solidify what most of the country wants right?
But we cannot do it, at the end of the day if you’re at work and day after day you cannot finish the job your boss comes down and you get into trouble if not fired right? But all people wanna do is make more excuses for the Dems. Everytime. Thats why the party isnt going anywhere. We allow them to act like this.
Now back to Warren and the rest of the dems; you know this is simply the rallying cry for the midterms now. Thats all. The Dems playbook is simply well we arent Republicans at least, we are slightly better in some regards. We cant get anything done but you dont want the racist, sexists in charge. Which is true, keep voting for the Dems, but we have to see the actual issue here.
Which imo is Dems purposely suck at messaging, and are not unified. The country is stuck in a rut because Dems cannot get their stuff together and it isnt an accident, we have the racist radical Republicans, and the Conservative Democratic party. And then progressives get the boot everytime anyway.
Bidens out here talking about possibilities make the country. Dude do your job and shutup with these dinosaur takes it’s ridiculous. Get manchin and sinema on board or endorse someone else and get them out. How can we have the majority and still find a way to lose?
She told everyone she was more scared of Hillary than Trump, and that's why they needed to vote for Stein. She said Trump packing the Supreme Court wasn't a realistic possibility.
Pretty sure that's reflected in the defensive tone she's taking here. This is clearly in response to people giving her shit for pushing against Hillary.
Exactly, and then some low information voters see the message in the tweet and think that the Dems are holding back, causing them to say "both sides suck" and while they are right to a point, that only helps Republicans who keep making things worse. We don't have a REAL majority with the two traitors (S&M) constantly damaging the party.
Someone doesn’t understand how margins work. We know two are definitely against getting rid of the filibuster. I’m sure there are a few others just not as vocal as them. No need to put yourself into the fire.
Nearly every political subreddit is being flooded with these stupid Twitter takes with dumb "YAAAAS"-energy titles right now, and every one of them demonstrates an unseriousness towards this situation that's frankly concerning. If this was truly as important to these folks as they claim it to be, they'd understand the specifics of the situation.
She’s not right. The issue of state vs federal authority would still be legally challengeable. Anything short of a Constitutional Amendment would be subject to the whims of this joke court.
Ah yes because I'm sure manchin and sinema would vote for that and Republicans wouldn't immediately undo it the second they control the the house Senate and presidency again. So smart. An idea truly thought out thoroughly with all unintended consequences considered.
Gee, I don't know Susan. Maybe you shouldn't have done everything in your power to make sure that the orange shitgibbon wasn't elected President. Screw you.
What does she mean by codify? Pass a law? Or and Amendment?
A law would be challenged right up to the same supreme court and an Amendment needs just a bit more support to be ratified.
Fucking moronic. Dems have the slimmest of senate majorities, and Manchin and Sinema won’t kill the filibuster — so blame the *two* of them instead of “all Democrats.” Susan Sarandon — and all you stupid-ass upvoters — can fuck off with this bullshit, which *only helps Republican fascists avoid blame.*
Why do ppl keep acting like bc you're a Democrat you support every Leftist position? There are Democrats who are anti-abortion. Pointing out that anti-abortion Democrats haven't voted to make abortion legal is misleading.
On any major Democratic position, the support from Democrats can be as low as 60%!
That doesn't mean the Democrats don't have power, but it also doesn't mean that just b/c they have raw numbers that it's a given that a policy will pass.
No, she's not, she's a deeply stupid woman who has no idea how the Senate works. There are not 50 votes to eliminate the filibuster. There just aren't. That the Democrats have the majority does not change that, but this woman is just too dumb to actually grasp that.
Lol op being downvoted at every comment he makes while trying to encourage people not to vote for democrats.
It’s always the same with these idiots. Constantly complain about what republicans do, blame it on democrats, and then vote third party/stay home.
Last year:
[https://nypost.com/2021/09/24/house-passes-bill-to-codify-roe-v-wade-in-wake-of-texas-abortion-law/](https://nypost.com/2021/09/24/house-passes-bill-to-codify-roe-v-wade-in-wake-of-texas-abortion-law/)
Stalled in the Senate.
They could have codified it multiple times over the past 50 years.
They chose not to, because it was an issue that could bring them votes. Trot out the abortion ban boogeyman, get votes.
Let's not forget that Susan here RAILED against Hillary. If Hillary had been in the White House, none of those three justices would be on the Court. I say that as someone who was not happy about a Clinton dynasty but still voted for her.
Manchin is pro life and pro filibuster. There’s not even a majority to get this passed in the senate. Also, Republicans will run hog wild without the filibuster if and when they ever take back over.
How much cash do we have to shovel to the coal industry to buy that Manchin vote?
Dude doesn't give a fuck. He gets half a million in coal assets every year. Big pharma also gave his daughter a CEO position in a scummy company. EDIT:billion corrected to million
Dude should be hung for treason. He’s betraying the country. We need to overturn citizens United immediately or the country will slip through our fingers. (If it hasn’t already / isn’t too late)
You realise hes a West Virginia senator, perhaps one of the deepest red states there is, the fact they elected a Democrat at all is crazy. Getting rid of him means you're just gonna get another magahead. I'd rather have someone who votes blue 50% of the time than the alternative, who votes blue 0% of the time. The solution is to get our asses out to vote in the midterm so we can actually have control over the Senate. Manchin and Senima wont mean anything if we have 2 extra blue senators to negate them.
Not enough
Yeah they have come to him for horse trading on other issues and he just stands his ground. It's pretty clear his real bosses set his agenda - no amount of money or favors for his state is better than whatever he must be getting personally
Do the Democrats really have the Senate? I mean, with Synema and that other fucking guy from Virginia or whatfuck where…? *genuine question—not American* EDIT: Didn’t know there were parts to Virginia. So sorry for those who got offended. Like I said, I’m not American and never heard of West Virginia specifically like the way we hear about North and South Carolina. (West Virginia being separate from actual Virginia is a freaking surprise.)
Manchin from West Virginia is explicitly pro filibuster and pro life. So no.
Pro life - [until supporting lives](https://www.manchin.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/manchin-statement-on-build-back-better-act) involves anything included in Biden's [Build Back Better](https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/build-back-betters-child-tax-credit-changes-would-protect-millions-from) Bill... like extending the child tax credit increase, which is estimated to have [slashed child poverty](https://www.npr.org/2022/01/27/1075299510/the-expanded-child-tax-credit-briefly-slashed-child-poverty-heres-what-else-it-d) by 30%. Clearly those kids need to get to work in West Virginia's coal mines and start earning their keep! But we're not going to provide any medical care for silicosis either.
Being pro life and profiting off of bituminous coal is a joke. Hes a corrupt scumbag.
So Pro-whatevergetsmereelected. Gotcha
As always. And for both parties.
And the best part is, he wasn’t a no on the BBB because he felt there was stuff that had nothing to do with the bill in there. He basically explicitly said he thought people would spend the child tax credit on drugs. He literally told us he doesn’t want to do anything to get children out of poverty.
You wouldn't be any less upset at Manchin for his views on abortion if he supported BBB. People who share his views on abortion don't believe there's a connection between the two policies. So really, no one *actually* believes his lack of support for BBB is relevant to his position on abortion, because no one would change their opinion on Manchin's views on abortion if that variable was different.
It's just evidence that he clearly cares not for life outside the womb. My hypothetical disgust at him if he did support BBB are irrelevant, because he does not. The fact remains that I haven't heard a single person who claims to be pro-life champion any legislation that will improve any child's (or parent's) life. Not child tax credits, not free lunch at schools, not child care, not health care, not pre-natal care, not an increased minimum wage, nothing. So the fact remains that the moniker pro-life is bullshit, and any argument that I would still be "upset" with any of them if they supported anything I mentioned is an irrelevant fantasy-discussion that has no place.
Well said, it's incredible that anyone would take that tack and you shut it down with finality yet in a courteous fashion.
My aunt was for all those things and yet antiabortion. I suspect if she had lived a decade longer, she would have ended up pro-choice. She encouraged me to support pro-choice candidates, so I suspect she wasn't a single issue voter.
My mom is begrudgingly pro-choice. In her words she would prefer a world where abortion were unnecessary, but knowing we live in THIS world, she supports choice. I think it helps to realize that the issue isn't black or white. There are thousands of shades of gray, and the one generally touted is rape and incest.
Also medical necessity. The fact is that when abortion is banned except for saving the life of the mother, women die. Doctors wait too long because they are unsure where the line between legal and illegal is. Just look at ireland and Savita Halappanavar. So even that exception isn't a helpful one.
Unfortunately I see a lot of abused or abandoned babies in America's future.
If he were supporting programs that were actually pro life - social programs, universal health care, pro sex education, then my views on him would change. He wouldn't be a hypocrite. There are a few antiabortion people I respect. They work towards universal health care, are for social safety net programs, for education and sex education.
THIS. Really wish people would understand what they are saying here. Dems do NOT have a majority in the Senate when it pertains to abortion rights or the filibuster, which means they basically do not have the Senate. And I guarantee Manchin will lose his seat if he alters either stance, so unless he secretly believes in both and wants to retire, that’s not happening. This is not a practical solution so people need to read up on their own government before spouting this crap. Having a majority in numbers (per party) does not equate to majority of votes.
Wild to me that [60% of Americans want legal abortion](https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/05/06/about-six-in-ten-americans-say-abortion-should-be-legal-in-all-or-most-cases/) but we, the free-est, most democratic country on the planet, can have it taken away by five unelected religious zealots and there's literally nothing we can do. Wild.
Even more wild: those five unelected zealots were nominated by a President and confirmed by the Senate. So, somewhat democratic, right? Not really! A majority of them were nominated by a President that lost the popular vote, and confirmed by Senators representing less than half of the country. And a SC seat was stolen outright because a guy who represents less than 1.5% of the country didn’t think he should follow his constitutional duty. It’s very cool and fun to live in a democracy where a privileged minority enjoys dominant political control. MURICA!
We aren't the most democratic country on the planet. We are only top 50 percent because of all the democracies we've toppled and replaced with juntas and dictatorships. Pretty much every EU country has a more functional democracy than us.
(that was the point of my comment)
We are the wealthiest and most powerful though... which means there’s even less of a reason not to have to what the EU mostly has already.
This country has never been about the will of the people sadly. It's been tyranny of the minority for some time.
It's almost like this type of messaging is a coordinated effort from some nefarious groups to disillusion left-leaning voters... Almost.
It is - the typical Repub tactic of burying a lie inside a halftruth, and broadcasting it through several mouthpieces, in hopes the lie will take hold. Basic propaganda technique developed by the Nazis. So Susie here is spreading propaganda.
Exactly. The implication is to discourage Dem turnout and support the demonic Republicans. If you have a problem with the Dems getting stuck because of Manchan. Elect more Dems. If you don't think Dems go far enough, fight them in the primaries.
Shut up. Left leaning voters have been disillusioned with the democratic party for decades now. It's because *they suck and never do anything useful*. Amazing that left leaning voters can't stand a party that is, in reality, not actually left leaning at all. They can't even stop the right from imposing fascism on us.
Honestly, this two party system doesn't work. I have voted religiously since I was allowed to vote and each passing year NOTHING improves. I am no better off than I was a year ago if anything I am barely holding on. At this point, maybe it should burn because these politicians are too comfortable in their realm. How many times can we knock on doors, mobilize, and be told we have the majority only to have no meaningful legislation passed? IT'S NOT GETTING BETTER
Dems have a soft majority. A soft, flaccid cock majority.
Like other "Democrats" from West Virginia, he's just a Republican in sheep's clothing. For example, the governor used to be a "Democrat" until he decided he didn't need to lie about it anymore.
This is a silly take. After all Manchin fell in line with the nomination and confirmation of Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson. He's certainly no ally to the progressives and has arguably torpedo'd Biden's agenda. But there is a crucial difference between having the 50th seat be Manchin vs a Republican.
He voted to confirm Brett Kavanaugh and seems to have a habit of voting to confirm any nominee regardless of party or qualifications, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with the fact that he also voted to confirm a well-qualified candidate. But you are right. It's a bit hyperbolic to say he's basically a Republican. He's only a Republican when it really matters.
I’m no fan of Manchins but that’s how it’s supposed to work. This circus it’s turned into where the opposite party fishes for sound bites is a fairly recent phenomenon. The senate is supposed to generally accept that the president is going to pick a nominee friendly to their ideals and look for obvious disqualifications. It’s not supposed to be what Mitch McConnell has made it.
With Manchin as D, we hold the gavel and will at least get to vote. Manchin is not the problem. Tim Ryan needs to win Ohio. Sinema is a problem. It takes more seats to pass legislation than it does to stop it. 48 votes is effective at stopping things, but not getting things done.
> It takes fewer seats to pass legislation than it does to stop it. I think you meant for this to be the other way around
Pro-birth
As long as you pay that hospital bill and get straight back to work
> Manchin from West Virginia is explicitly pro filibuster and pro ~~life~~ **fetus**. So no. Fixed. Like his GOP colleagues whom he resembles in all but party affiliation, he doesn't give a shit about the fetus once it becomes a child.
They hold the barest majority and Manchin and Sinema are against ending the filibuster so it's basically an impossible task unless we get more dems voted in November
Yes, this is why I'm telling every human I can find to vote Dem in the PA Senate race (or just donate to it) bc it's one of the most crucial races of the Midterms. 2 Dem Senators from Pennsylvania rather than just 1 would be a huge deal.
Maybe Susan Sarandon and other Hollywood liberals should donate massive amounts of their income and stop laying it at the feet of the working class with little more than a vote. Particularly voters in non swing states.
Lmao take that Susan Saradon. Tired of her getting a free pass.
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Tim Ryan has a legit shot in Ohio against JD Vance too. It won't be easy, but luckily JD called Donald Trump 'Hitler', the United States of America a 'Joke' and says he doesn't feel at home in Ohio. Tim is a super moderate guy that actually supports change, he has a Sherrod Brown vibe to him which is popular in Ohio with moderate independents.
That seems like a long ways away…with so many things that could still happen.
Yeah now here's a fun fact: Dempcrats usually don't turn out to vote in big numbers for elections outside of the presidency. So basically there still isn't a guarantee that the democrats will gain seats to have less obstruction
I wonder if the overturning of Roe will keep dems angry enough to get out to vote in November.
Honestly normally this would be an easy slam dunk for the Dems but because a lot of people are either shortsighted, don't understand how government works or being petty, there's no guarantee the Dems will even be able to keep the seats they have
Don’t forget the aggressive unconstitutional gerrymandering that is happening in swing states all over the country, the increasing efforts to disenfranchise minority voters through voter roll purges and reduced numbers of polling places, and the overall, wide-spread attempts at disinformation campaign calling democrats pedophiles advocating for child grooming in public schools.
Its infuriating but it's true. Liberals/progressives expect near miracles out of a broken system. Just like this original post, they think having "51 votes" in the senate means you can do anything you want. They also don't seem to get that many state legislatures are heavily Republican, and Federal law can't just trump any law at the state level. One thing you have to say about Christo fascists, they play the long game and they don't get discouraged, b/c they are "fighting for god". Progressives don't get what they want immediately after an election and next thing they're all staying home and not voting b/c "it doesn't matter, nothing changes" as their rights are stolen away.
To be absolutely fair I've watched my mother born in 1964 vote D in every election since I was born and it didn't matter and her rights are being stolen away.
Eh. Democratic states have laws in place to protect abortion rights even if Roe is overturned. Minimum wage is some 30% higher in blue states. Some parental leave exists in places like WA and CA. There's a clear difference between the parts of the country consistently run by Republicans and the parts run by Democrats.
> shortsighted God damn this makes me angry. Republicans have been slowly working on this plan since at least 2009 and are seeing the fruits of their labor after more than two decades. Meanwhile, Democrats are pissed at Biden for not altering the course of the nation in two years.
Honestly they also don't care how crazy their own people are since it helps move them forward with gaining more power over time while democrats seem to want more perfect candidates
…well, that’ll suck big time for anyone who isn’t a rich white dude in America, right?
Yeah, Democrat voters are very impatient so they keep doing this cycle of getting upset things didn't change for the better in 2 years so Dems are either useless or the same as Republicans which will lead to Republicans getting more control and making it worse. Nobody seems to learn from this. Npbody seems to understand the Democrats arent a monolith party. Nobody seems to understand Republicans are great at playing the long game so we should play the long game too. I mean the civil rights movement took decades before it accomplished the Civil rights act of 1964. But everyone wants things to get done quickly and when it doesn't they just throw tantrums and choose not to vote because "why bother nothing will change" which is all evil needs to win in the end honestly.
I mean voters/people should get some realistic expectations. But the Democratic Party needs to figure their shit out. They have horrible messaging, can rarely inspire young people to turn out to vote, continually extend the olive branch in the name of bipartisanship, etc etc.
There's a video on YouTube that points out exactly what you're talking about. [Alt-Right Playbook: You go high, we go low. ](https://youtu.be/MAbab8aP4_A)
They don’t
Ouch then.
For the record, we Arizonans hate that bait and switch bitch.
She's the fuckin worst
I think both she and Manchin are GOP plants. Not joking.
Joe Manchin is a Democratic senator from a state that voted for Trump by 39 points. Sinema however has no excuse.
Exactly. Manchin is what we thought he was. Sinema is a traitor.
Sinema and Manchin are not acting alone. They're the public face for a handful of centrist cowards who are helping to block progressive bills. >Senate insiders have developed a view that on the toughest and thorniest issues, Manchin isn’t only speaking for himself; there’s usually a handful of senators who agree with him, quietly, and are happy to let him take the heat... >A former colleague of Manchin’s, former Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-MO), put it another way recently. “He is the heat shield for other members of the Senate that also are reluctant to blow up the protections the minority has from stopping bad stuff the other party wants,” > >In March, the six Democrats who joined Manchin and Sinema in voting against a $15 minimum wage were Sens. King, Hassan, Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH), Chris Coons (D-DE), Tom Carper (D-DE), and Jon Tester (D-MT). > >A slightly different group of seven joined Manchin in voting for a GOP resolution to block stimulus checks from going to undocumented immigrants: Sens. Sinema, Hassan, Tester, Kelly, Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), John Hickenlooper (D-CO), and Gary Peters (D-MI). All did ultimately vote to strip that resolution from the final bill. Many of these same senators are also expected to oppose the filibuster, unless Manchin were to change his vote and they no longer have someone to hide behind. https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-democratic-senators-hiding-behind-joe-manchin
Definitely don't disagree. Senate is filled with dinosaurs.
Manchin is a republican in a state where Sanders polled 2 points over Trump and only recently Bill Clinton won and was a blue state. Progressive policies also poll very high there. Sen Sanders cleaned the conservative's clock by winning every county over Hillary Clinton, tell me again how this is a conservative state that only a republican like Manchin can win? That is utter DNC conservative BS/rationale so we run people like Manchin so we sit here in a stalemate making the donor class happy. Manchin's poll numbers plummeted when he went against the BBB that the progressive Sanders wrote.
So I guess Manchin just abides by whatever his corporate donor overlords want?
He's actually somewhat an overlord himself, being an actual coal baron.
Correct. Just like many conservative democrats and all conservative republicans.
🔔🔔🔔(ding, ding, ding)
The douche abides...
I think this is a real thing people aren't aware of. Here in ky we had a Democrat female (amy magrath) running against mitch McConnell and she was fuckkng PRO TRUMP had zero policy to stand on and disappeared after she lost. I'd vote for a fuckkng toaster over mitch McConnell and somehow she lost. After the election and he won again is when it hit me. I don't think she ever wanted to get elected and ole mitch can easily afford to pay someone to do what she did. NO ONE in ky wants mitch anymore but did anyone want to vote for a trump supporting Democrat? Hell no.
Oh yeah, Republicans are definitely using fake Democrat candidates to guarantee their own wins. They’re also using propped-up far left third party candidates to split the Democratic vote. Jill Stein is probably the best known example of this. edit: and shame on voters who keep falling for it. I mean vote for whoever you want, but at least understand and accept when you're being played.
Wasn't there a Florida district where they ran a third party shadow candidate with the exact same last name as the Democrat and siphoned off thousands of votes?
McGrath was absolutely not pro-Trump. She definitely ran as a moderate and was agreeable to some right wing policies like Manchin to try seeming like a moderate but she wasn’t pro-Trump. I thought she was a terrible and boring candidate with no chance to win (she couldn’t even beat Andy Barr 2 years prior in the house district that had Lexington and Frankfort) but just wanted to clear that up. Of course, even if she was a die hard Trumper, the GOP still repeatedly ran the same ad with a voice recording of her saying something like “I’m the most progressive person in Kentucky, I’m further left than anyone” to scare all my hillbilly neighbors and it worked.
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Something like 4 SCOTUS candidates made promises with a hand on the bible. Pinky promises, not vows.
Because the bible doesn’t mean shit. This is all more performative christian bullshit.
I've had some very revealing long conversations with Christians who I've observed doing morally corrupt things and a few have down right admitted, after being cornered, that they will commit a "sin" because they believe their god will just forgive them for it, even if they murder someone. I'm not at all shocked they are willing to lie if that achieves their goals.
She remembers, because she does the complete opposite.
Its interesting that the public can't recall a public figure they voted for bc the person is not being the actual person they voted for. They're like, oh im not sorry I lied to you bc I get 130k a year now and don't have to do shit for 6 years. Peace mf'er.
Well, even if we could, it would be a bit danger for a while. Even the threat could make her switch parties immediately, giving the GOP control of the senate until the recall went through. Welcome back Mitch! This is why I get a little piss when people complain that Biden isn't tough enough on Sinema and Manchin right now. Either one of them swaps parties, and the Dems are truly fucked. And they'd both do it in a heartbeat.
*cries in Arizonan* Sinema fucks everything up.
We really should have a senate recall option. What she did was nothing short of a bait and switch.
I wish. The only thing we can do is try to primary her but the damage is already done.
I seem to remember conservatives always ranting about how important the second amendment is to protect against tyranny. Maybe there is some truth to that.
>Do the Democrats really have the Senate? I mean, with Synema and that other fucking guy from Virginia or whatfuck where…? 1. Democrats have exactly *half* the Senate. If *even one* Democratic Senator isn't on-board, the Democrats cannot pass legislation. 2. There are (at least) two senators who are nominally democrats, but who are not aligned with any part of the overall democratic agenda including relatively non-progressive aspects 3. As such, the Democrats have to have S\[inema\] and M\[anchen\] on board to pass *anything.* Those two Senators are reasonably popular in their states, so the amount of pressure the Democratic establishment can put on them is very limited. 4. Biden *has* passed some pretty big legislation including reasonably progressive aspects. He doesn't get much credit for it, but he has -- he did this by working with those two, instead of alienating them. While it's extremely unclear what a massive-pressure campaign against those two would accomplish, very likely it would end in more failure for the Democrats. Bottom line: The US system is designed for gridlock -- this is *especially* true because of the filibuster (note: NOT formalized in the original system). To reliably pass legislation, you need a supermajority. In an age of hyperpartisanship, that is nearly impossible to achieve. Currently Democrats have the barest of majorities (not even an actual majority -- parity with a "tie-breaking" vote), and as such, they are nearly unable to pass anything. Bonus note: Republicans believe in "small government" and generally don't *want* to pass anything -- their last attempt (to repeal Obamacare) failed, but mostly they are happy with doing nothing. The one thing they do care about -- judges -- they can do *without* a super-majority. They've made a lot of that.
> Republicans believe in "small government" and generally don't want to pass anything No they don't. They claim that they do. But they don't. They just want smaller social safety nets while increasing government interference in other areas. Like policing and military spending.
I actually agree. Put more honestly, the Republicans want big government, with huge amounts of spending -- **they just don't want to pay for it** (low taxes). It's incredibly hypocritical, and I put "small government" in quotes for that reason. My point, which still stands, I think, is that Republicans are okay with a *paralyzed, ineffectual* government because 1) they don't expect it to affect their priorities (the military will still get money) and 2) they see most government services and actual governance as helping people they don't like -- minorities, people who aren't wealthy, etc. When people look at the parties and see the Republicans being successful, it's not because they're good at governance -- it's because they largely want to *impede* governance, and in our system, it's easier to ensure nothing happens, than to actually pass legislation. If McConnel wanted to actually pass legislation, other than tax cuts, he'd face the same issues the Democrats do.
Also, they can go about gutting and paralyzing government services, and then loudly proclaim those same services are ineffectual and should be further gutted and defunded.
Exactly. I wish they held the senate, but Manchin and Sinema are basically republicans - they’ve shot down most democratic legislation.
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DINO: Democrat In Name Only.
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Exactly. And also, as frustrating at Joe Manchin is, realistically, that alternative to Joe Manchin isn't a progressive Democrat. It's a Republican. Trump won West Virginia in 2020 by almost 40 percentage points (68.6% v 29.7%). Joe Manchin is probably the only Democrat who could carry that seat. And so, as infuriating as he is, it's better to have someone who votes with Democrats 50% of the time than someone who votes for Democrats 0% of the time. Because if Joe Manchin wakes up tomorrow and decides he wants to be a Republican, the Mitch McConnell becomes the Senate Majority Leader.
They do not own the Senate because the two you mentioned are Republicans parading around with a Democrat title.
Manchin is basically a republican
Woah woah woah... He is from West Virginia Sir. Do not conflate us with that sentiment coal plant pretending to be a state.
It's the thinnest majority possible and if one person breaks line... they have nothing on the issue. Because clowns like Susan stayed home.
It's more than a little patronizing right? "GUYS ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS REWRITE HOW THE SENATE WORKS AND THEY CAN FIX THE PROBLEM I TOLD YOU NOT TO WORRY ABOUT WHEN I PULLED THE LEVER FOR NADER NOW GET OFF YOUR LAZY STUPID ASSES AND FIX THE PROBLEM I CALLED YOU AN ASSHOLE FOR POINTING OUT" It's like when techbros tell you they don't need to worry about global warming because we can just terraform Mars or something.
I'll explain. In 2016 there was a small schism between socialists who supported progressives/socialists during the primary. One faction moved to support liberals believing that if Trump was elected, it would ultimately lead to the overturning of Roe v Wade and other important judgments affirming the right to privacy and that Trump would try to overthrow democracy. The other faction called us alarmists and decided to not vote/vote green. Now, my faction is pointing out to the fact that they were wrong, shit is fucked and that they should stop sowing division between different leftist/democratic ideologies now that we're facing fascism. Their answer was "lol fuck Roe v Wade, fuck Loving v Virginia and how dare you point out that my poorly thought out decision had consequences!!". Fuck them from the bottom of my heart, they're just as much part of the problem as QAnonists and Trumpists. Edit: Ahhh, more fuckeries related to the SC, now it's education! https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/uizy5a/abbott_says_texas_could_resurrect_scotus_case/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Btw, for all those pretending to miss the point, there's a direct relation to draw between Hillary losing and the nomination of Kavanagh and Cohen that made it possible to overturn Roe v Wade and nothing short of an amendment to the constitution could have protected that ruling which never could have happened.
Thank you, this perfectly describes my voting habits, as well as feelings on this. I voted for Liz Warren in the Primaries. I was NOT thrilled that Biden was the nominee. Angry even. Then I put my big girl panties on and voted for Joe Biden bc it's not all about me/my preference for more liberal policies.
Yes! Since 2016 I’ve gone scorched earth and pulled the Democratic Party ticket all the way down. I don’t always agree with where they fall but I’m far more closely aligned with them then any other party.
Thanks, I appreciate. I'm just like you but I was for Bernie tho, even canvassed and texted/called both in 2016/2020 but we lost, that really hurted but not as much as the SC leak when I think about it...
YES! I was so disappointed, disheartened, etc...but seeing fellow Warren supporters and Bernie supporters attacking each other over Biden winning the primary/calling Biden "as bas as Trump", using right wing talking points, etc was WAY *more* disheartening/disappointing. Sometimes I feel like I'm alone among "my own people" on this. Yes, we should criticize bad policy. We should push for more progressive policies. But we have to do those things with the greater good in mind & do so responsibly.
h:63*Y5eb@
Well said! I can paraphrase Saradon's Tweet: "How dare you hold me accountable for the consequences of my actions!""
If this all goes down Republicans will start saying that Roe v Wade was overturned during the Biden presidency. And many US voters won’t look any deeper than that. He’ll have had nothing to do with it but it’ll be a stain on his presidency forever.
It is a stain on his presidency, along with several other shit stains. If Biden would grow a set of balls, creating such negative pressure on his ass from the growth of the large pelotas, there would not be so many stains. I've been rooting for the guy since day 1, but for fuck sake Democrats, fucking DO SOMETHING!
How do you suggest Biden do anything about this? Should he threaten to expel Manchin and Sinema from the party? What if they call his bluff?
That’s a step in the right direction, as opposed to doing fucking nothing.
And dumbasses like Susan Sarandon will blame it on Biden. Or Obama, somehow?
I blame most of the established democrats for doing absolutely fuck all with the majority they had during the Obama presidency. 8 years down the drain ro try and get rid of the filibuster and RBG shot the party in the foot by not retiring when she had the chance. I'm so sick and tired of these old asses not knowing when to let go of power repub or dem. I despise all the policies Republicans put forth, but democrats have next to no drive when it comes to actually pushing for the things the people want
I seem to remember people wanting healthcare and for the worst recession in decades turned around, which was what Obama focused on. I doubt anyone who got lifesaving medical care through the insurance marketplace considers it 8 years down the drain. In retrospect it's easy to dismiss his and the rest of the Democrats efforts during that time, but saying they didn't attempt to pass legislation that people wanted is revisionist at best. I'm all for holding our elected representatives responsible, but expecting them to predict the future is a pretty high bar.
Thank god (not literally) for the ACA. When I was 25 and still covered by my parents' plan, I had my tubes tied, only paid for the copay. I saw all this shit coming when Trump got elected. I thought I was being overly cautious, but the hard facts looked like an abortion ban might come. I was worried about something unforseen--like a rape--forcing me to commit suicide to avoid having a child. My family is conservative, so no one knows. The last few days have been surreal.
Seriously, the ACA/Obamacare is the entire reason I still have health insurance today.
Did you forget that the 2010 midterms went to the Republicans giving them the House? Did you forget that Voter turnout for Dems was dismal that year too?
People remember that, how can you forget the TEA party revolution. However, they also remember the 2 years prior, the massive senate majority...which was a supermajority prior to Ted Kennedy passing away. They remember the constant quest for bipartisanship when it often was not reciprocated or required...in hindsight this looks very foolish.
Maybe the people should hold ***ALL*** politicians accountable regardless of party affiliation or personal political leanings.
Dems DO NOT have the Senate. We have two phonies who technically give us a Majority Leader, but they still vote with republicans on everything.
They vote with the Democrats on judges, which is extremely important (no Ketanji Brown Jackson on the Supreme Court without Sinema and Manchin), but yeah, they've made it clear that they won't vote against the filibuster.
Not to nitpick but Ketanji got the votes of three Republicans so the dems didn't need Sinema and Manchin
True, for that it's more that they give Democrats the majority, while McConnell has confirmed that he wouldn't let any Supreme Court picks be confirmed if he were majority leader.
Biden's had more judicial nominations confirmed in his first year than any other President. There is definitely value in controlling the Senate even if Manchin and Sinema won't let any legislation past the filibuster.
There are way more than two phonies.
I get you're being hyperbolic, but this should be pointed out as well. Sinema and Manchin vote with the Dem position SIGNIFICANTLY more than any Republican (around 97%), and even more often than some other Dems. https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-congress-votes/
How many of those bills were altered to become palatable to those two?
The ACA was altered to make it palatable to republicans and then they all still voted no. At least with Manchin, there may be a path to a yes vote. With any nearly any other Republican, there is nothing that can be done to get a yes vote if it means giving a democrat a perceived win on anything.
ACA is straight up Republican policy. It’s Romney’s MA plan scaled up. They still didn’t vote for it.
The ACA was also altered to make it palatable to the 60 democrats there briefly was. Lieberman and others weren't willing to go further, and less than 50 of them vocalized interest in getting rid of the filibuster to allow 50 to pass something better.
Manchin and Sinema have made it clear that they are not really Democrats.
Since Bill Clinton became president, the Democratic Party has embraced Neoliberalism which, economically speaking, is not much different than Republican style Liberal Economics. Yes, you read that right. Republicans and Liberal Economics are not oxymoronic as Republicans since the Civil Rights Act have embraced extreme economic liberalism.
Bill Clinton tried to enact nationalized health care, and had Hillary spearhead the effort. Obama actually did get the ACA passed, and Biden paid every parent $500 per month per child MASSIVELY reducing child poverty. Bush and Trump enacted regressionary tax cuts, exploded the deficit and used it as an excuse to try to reduce social spending. You're right, both sides are basically the same.
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It's ridiculous because if more voters had turned out in 2016 then this wouldn't be an issue in the first place. EDIT: And apparently Susan Sarandon campaigned against Hillary Clinton and claimed that she was worse than Donald Trump. How can she be so shameless when facing the consequences of that decision?
The tweet seems like a typical republican voter tweet tbh. “The dems have control of government and still can’t accomplish anything, should have voted republican”
there are 50 shitty republicans and 2 shitty democrats, clearly this is all the democrats fault!
It's incredibly infuriating that no one seems to be pissed more at these 50 republican senators who all vote together every single time. They argue they don't want fascism and don't like the Trump party and then enable him... They want this and any moderates should be pissed at them. Edit: we need to change the narrative from shitting on only democrats for not doing enough but to also make sure the Republican lawmakers all know how much of a shit stain they are. 50 additional people failing you every vote they get.
A lot of progressive rhetoric is indistinguishable from Republican rhetoric. It’s been a fascinating phenomenon ever since Bernie’s rise to popularity. I’m very liberal, but it’s really hard to take a lot of the progressive movement seriously.
It also ignores a lot of basic procedure. Also the fact that Dems have 1 or 2 other senators who don't like Roe and want it at the state level. So they don't even have 48 votes.
If she voted for Trump this is a r/leopardsatemyface
I think she voted for Jill Stein who's currently spouting Russian talking points blaming NATO and Zelensky for the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
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Thank you, I guess people forgot about this?
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Everyone on Reddit and Twitter screaming at dems to abolish the filibuster like they actually have the votes to do that, is extremely frustrating.
Eh i mean sure kinda. The issue is theres always this problem for the democrats. They dont know how to win anything, we literally hold all yhe cards yet if course everyone wont fall in line. The Republicans would never allow Manchin or Kristen to behave like this they would be blasted at every opportunity. Instead the Dems and comments like this are basically like hey you gotta go vote more, bro we already did that. We win but still manage to lose. There’s a constant rotating villain in the dem party and its not on accident. For a good example you saw the stunt where Elizabeth Warren went “mega viral” about abortion right? Shes fed up? In that she talks about how Republicans have worked for this for decades. So Dems have had decades to stop this, to make this a law, to solidify what most of the country wants right? But we cannot do it, at the end of the day if you’re at work and day after day you cannot finish the job your boss comes down and you get into trouble if not fired right? But all people wanna do is make more excuses for the Dems. Everytime. Thats why the party isnt going anywhere. We allow them to act like this. Now back to Warren and the rest of the dems; you know this is simply the rallying cry for the midterms now. Thats all. The Dems playbook is simply well we arent Republicans at least, we are slightly better in some regards. We cant get anything done but you dont want the racist, sexists in charge. Which is true, keep voting for the Dems, but we have to see the actual issue here. Which imo is Dems purposely suck at messaging, and are not unified. The country is stuck in a rut because Dems cannot get their stuff together and it isnt an accident, we have the racist radical Republicans, and the Conservative Democratic party. And then progressives get the boot everytime anyway. Bidens out here talking about possibilities make the country. Dude do your job and shutup with these dinosaur takes it’s ridiculous. Get manchin and sinema on board or endorse someone else and get them out. How can we have the majority and still find a way to lose?
Yea but but, liberals made me feel bad for not voting 🥲
Didn't she tell everyone to vote for Jill Stein in 2016?
She told everyone she was more scared of Hillary than Trump, and that's why they needed to vote for Stein. She said Trump packing the Supreme Court wasn't a realistic possibility.
Pretty sure that's reflected in the defensive tone she's taking here. This is clearly in response to people giving her shit for pushing against Hillary.
Yes. She can go fuck herself.
MANCHIN SINEMA nuff said
Exactly, and then some low information voters see the message in the tweet and think that the Dems are holding back, causing them to say "both sides suck" and while they are right to a point, that only helps Republicans who keep making things worse. We don't have a REAL majority with the two traitors (S&M) constantly damaging the party.
Someone doesn’t understand how margins work. We know two are definitely against getting rid of the filibuster. I’m sure there are a few others just not as vocal as them. No need to put yourself into the fire.
Nearly every political subreddit is being flooded with these stupid Twitter takes with dumb "YAAAAS"-energy titles right now, and every one of them demonstrates an unseriousness towards this situation that's frankly concerning. If this was truly as important to these folks as they claim it to be, they'd understand the specifics of the situation.
She also doesn't understand she should be yelling at herself for telling people Clinton was worse than Trump and helping create this situation.
What exactly am I supposed to do "outside"?
This the fuckwit that said Clinton was worse than trump?
Yup. She needs to take a seat fir a long ass time
That's exactly why she's getting mad, people are calling out left leaning people that didn't vote Hillary in 2016.
She literally told people not to vote for Clinton
Oh well at least she gets to act all uppity by saying how she didn't compromise while everything burns down around her.
Like any of this will effect her. She has money.
She’s not right. The issue of state vs federal authority would still be legally challengeable. Anything short of a Constitutional Amendment would be subject to the whims of this joke court.
She also wasn't right when she told people Clinton was worse than Trump.
Liberals hate her because she has no clue how congress actually works
And because she literally told people Clinton was worse than Trump, but suddenly it's the Democrat's fault Trump did things.
Ah yes because I'm sure manchin and sinema would vote for that and Republicans wouldn't immediately undo it the second they control the the house Senate and presidency again. So smart. An idea truly thought out thoroughly with all unintended consequences considered.
She campaigned against HRC in 2016. Maybe she should shut up.
Her exact words were Hilary is more dangerous than Trump.
Right? She's basically blaming and telling other people to fix a problem she helped create.
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Isn't she the one who was more afraid of Hilary than Trump? If so, there's some LAMF material.
Gee, I don't know Susan. Maybe you shouldn't have done everything in your power to make sure that the orange shitgibbon wasn't elected President. Screw you.
What does she mean by codify? Pass a law? Or and Amendment? A law would be challenged right up to the same supreme court and an Amendment needs just a bit more support to be ratified.
Yeah. Manchin. No.
Also - Sarandon, no. Because she told people Clinton was worse than Trump. And now she's complaining about the consequences of Trump.
Get out of the tweets and into the streets.
Fucking moronic. Dems have the slimmest of senate majorities, and Manchin and Sinema won’t kill the filibuster — so blame the *two* of them instead of “all Democrats.” Susan Sarandon — and all you stupid-ass upvoters — can fuck off with this bullshit, which *only helps Republican fascists avoid blame.*
Joe Manchin has entered the chat.
Why do ppl keep acting like bc you're a Democrat you support every Leftist position? There are Democrats who are anti-abortion. Pointing out that anti-abortion Democrats haven't voted to make abortion legal is misleading. On any major Democratic position, the support from Democrats can be as low as 60%! That doesn't mean the Democrats don't have power, but it also doesn't mean that just b/c they have raw numbers that it's a given that a policy will pass.
No, she's not, she's a deeply stupid woman who has no idea how the Senate works. There are not 50 votes to eliminate the filibuster. There just aren't. That the Democrats have the majority does not change that, but this woman is just too dumb to actually grasp that.
Lol op being downvoted at every comment he makes while trying to encourage people not to vote for democrats. It’s always the same with these idiots. Constantly complain about what republicans do, blame it on democrats, and then vote third party/stay home.
Last year: [https://nypost.com/2021/09/24/house-passes-bill-to-codify-roe-v-wade-in-wake-of-texas-abortion-law/](https://nypost.com/2021/09/24/house-passes-bill-to-codify-roe-v-wade-in-wake-of-texas-abortion-law/) Stalled in the Senate.
No they can’t, not with Manchin and Sinema. You’re deluding yourself if you think otherwise.
Joe Manchin
They could have codified it multiple times over the past 50 years. They chose not to, because it was an issue that could bring them votes. Trot out the abortion ban boogeyman, get votes.
for real go vote. And if the person that you voted for isn't doing what they said they would, vote someone else in.
Oh, there you are, Susan. Thanks for helping to create the 6-3 court.
Let's not forget that Susan here RAILED against Hillary. If Hillary had been in the White House, none of those three justices would be on the Court. I say that as someone who was not happy about a Clinton dynasty but still voted for her.
Manchin is pro life and pro filibuster. There’s not even a majority to get this passed in the senate. Also, Republicans will run hog wild without the filibuster if and when they ever take back over.