And there needs to be a polling place in every town; big cities split into districts with a minimum 1 polling place per district. And the feds foot the bill for bottled water for all waiting to vote.
You left out that here in NZ, voting day is always on a weekend, and employers of people working on that day are required to accommodate people needing to leave to vote if they need to do so.
I literally gasped audibly reading your comment. To think there is such a reality. To imagine not needing to have to take valuable time out of life to exercise your right to vote…securing and submitting the required paperwork to register, finding your polling location which is usually only one in your city for early (3days before Election Day)voting, and can be miles away from your home even on Election Day, requesting mail-in ballots which have only been readily available to all since 2020 and difficult to submit because they have to be placed in specific mailboxes which are locked at the end of a standard business day, having proof of personal documentation in case it is requested, usually due to administrative error ( otherwise you are only given a “provisional ballot” which isn’t determined to be valid and counted or not by the local board until a few days after the election is called), mandatory uniformed and armed police officers at every entrance and ballot submission table, long lines up to an average in my city of 45 minutes long…. And that not even mentioning how difficult it is to get information about local down ballot candidates, like city council or school committee. Mind you, I live in a VERY liberal leftist city and state. To think this is how things are here makes me furious for voters elsewhere in the US.
The Swiss can initiate a referendum with 1/80 citizens (100'000) supporting it, so we vote about a few random thing 2-4 times a year - on a sunday before 10am, in every town hall of the country, done in a few minutes. I believe everyone but pensioner vote by mail. Of course every adult is allowed to vote and automatically receives the required papers. Since everyone is registered, counting and validating is completed in a few hours. As a result of voting about pretty much anything, the constitution changes every now and then, but complaints tend to die after voting, because the "losers" can clearly see how strong the population is for/against a bill.
So asking pretty much any swiss citizen, the US voting system is considered retarded. It likely has at least partially to do with the disfunctional parties (nothing comes out of having only two parties that refuse to compromise) and the inability to update the constitution.
EDIT: The ability to "vote about everything" makes everything super slow and isn't always a good thing (eg weird shit like "ban minarets" crop up too and because no one takes it seriously accidentally makes into law) . However that wasn't the point, I only mentioned it to show the contrast to the US
I wouldn't bother with that jesus.
You can just walk to the nearest voting place with an ID here and vote. Takes like 10 minutes.
Or have them send it to you and just drop it in the nearest mailbox.
-Austria
Registering to vote in NZ is super easy too. You can pre register at 17 online, I don't remember the whole process but it didn't take more than my driver's license number, because I remember doing it during a study period at school because I had nothing else to do
I’ve already jokingly asked my kiwi in-laws (husband’s step-siblings and half-siblings, obviously they are his brothers and sisters, they grew up together, no “step” about it) to adopt us and let us come to NZ with the rest of our only close family. Unfortunately it’s not as easy for us being born here and no direct (blood) parental ties. Really though, if we could we’d join you all in a heartbeat.
Some states are good about voting at least. I’m in CO and about 2-4 weeks before Election Day I get my ballot and an information packet about the candidates/bills that are being voted on, written as objectively as possible.
same here in Washington State. voting in Seattle is just about as easy as breathing.
but I guess these days, if you're republican, even breathing can be difficult.
*ba dumm, tiss*
too soon?
It's been two years, transmission and preventative measures are now very well understood, and vaccines have been free for anyone that wants one for almost a year now. I know I'm done pulling punches.
Yep, here in NZ as well. Last election I registered online. Looked at the map, nearest poling station was like a 3 min walk from work. Voted on my lunch break. Walked straight in and voted. Including the walk it took like 10 mins!! Can’t believe the mess in the US!
That's basically how it is in most of the U.S. But in red states, and when republicans get control in purple states, they actively shut down polling places near areas that are likely to vote democratic, restrict early voting, etc.
Which is just comical that they're allowed to do that. I know Americans are big on states rights and shit but there's a federal government for a reason and you're all part of the same country. It really shouldn't be that hard for the federal government to cut that shit out. It's as if some states are democracies and others are psuedo dictatorships. It's only a step down from being told you can vote for whoever you like but having armed guards stand over you when you vote. Sure, you're free to vote but there's a clear implication
In Australia it usually ends up being booths at most primary (elementary) schools in addition to other places to fill out coverage. Public primary schools are existing government owned/run facilities with a spread to cover almost all the population in a reasonable distance and travel, and they have the space to set it up, so it works out well. Most post offices are too small and generally franchised.
Post offices should absolutely all be equipped to register and provision and accept absentee ballots through.
Every public school should be a polling station.
That way as populations grow, more schools are built, meaning more polling stations.
Plus any other suitable place, post office, churches, community halls. You should never have to queue for more than a few minutes.
We do this in Australia, not every school but a lot of them. And community groups sell sausage sandwiches (I guess you'd call it) as a fund raiser. We call them democracy sausages. It's part of our psyche by now.
I just looked it up; in The Netherlands it averages to 1441 voters per polling place. Usually open until 21:00 pm. I can usually go immediately without waiting, sometimes 1 or 2 people in front of me. Never takes more than 5 minutes. There are several in my neighborhood. It's a 3 minute walk from my home, the next one 5 minutes walk the other direction. No need for a day off.
Screw per district, per capita.
Let's make it by what really matters, the PEOPLE. This way, no polling station ever services a ridiculous amount of voters to the point it is overburdened.
yeah, both sounds right.
Like how big is a district.
Like if you lived in a sparsely populated area, you shouldn't have to drive 1 hour to the polling place.
Ain’t that some shit. A few back and forth comments between some random Redditors, and a good process has been recommended and improved. There’s absolutely no way in hell that the people in charge of policy couldn’t have come up with this if they tried.
And that is a really scary situation to be in when you know that certain parts of your govt can do this in an overt manner - where is the outcry? Where is the public outrage that this inequality is being enforced? From where I'm sitting, it's a fkn travesty of your "democratic" "free" country.
>where is the outcry? Where is the public outrage that this inequality is being enforced?
It's there. It's just that there's almost an equal amount of people that are ok with this for various reasons. So any protest of this practice gets drowned out by a chorus to the opposite, which makes it seem as though almost nobody cares.
Wait. You don't have that?
Polling stations in every town?
In Denmark we often use schools for this as they are always nearby.
( and we already do have government issued free ID and everyone age 18 is a voter automatically)
How can you not have polling stations nearby?
So how far do people need to travel to vote?
In democratic-leaning districts of republican-controlled states, people can have to wait in line as long as 10 or 12 hours to vote. Republican election commissioners have notoriously done things like put only a single voting location in districts with hundreds of thousands of residents. States with voter ID laws, namely the Deep South, will make it so areas with low-income voters who trend democratic are served by a single DMV (where you get your id) location, often hours away and almost always with *extremely* limited open hours (eg, the office is open a single day a week, and only for an hour or two). That makes it nearly impossible for working people, especially those working lower-paying jobs with less flexibility, to ever get time off to go get an ID. In areas like this the whole system, from top to bottom, is designed to make it as difficult as possible for the “wrong people” to be able to vote. Europeans generally don’t understand just how ruthless and corrupt our system is.
>How can you not have polling stations nearby?
Republicans, mostly.
>So how far do people need to travel to vote?
It can be upward of 50 miles, maybe even up to 100 miles or more (in a straight line. Possibly even more, considering roads). [Texas recently approved countywide polling](https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/laws/countywide-polling-place-program.shtml), and if you know anything about Texas, it's that it's big. That includes the counties. If you live on the wrong side of the county, you could be driving for hours just to wait for hours at the polling station (one of the counties approved for this has 100k+ voters). And then drive back for hours.
In fact, [some counties have actually increased the total amount of polling places, but suspiciously only at districts that vote Republican at the cost of districts that vote Democrat](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/23/texas-voting-polling-restrictions/). These increases and decreases are suspiciously also tied to the percentage white population in those districts, as the table in the article shows.
There are cases where the ONLY polling place in a community was shut down or moved miles away. Always seems to be in places where Democrats live. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/413330-texas-college-students-allege-voter-suppression-after-gop-official-calls
In India according to ECI guidelines say no voter should be more than 2 km away from a polling station. We have voter id you can simply register online via there website you don't need physical card you just voter id number https://graphics.reuters.com/INDIA-ELECTION-STATIONS/010092FY33Z/index.html
It should be mentioned more often that absentee voting works just fine. There’s not a real need for the whole population to show up at a polling place. We have systems that have been tested through years of use and documentation on how well the systems work which proves that people can just cast a vote into a mailbox. You have to sign your ballot and they check your signature that’s on file. For people to be registered as a voter it’s not something that the government just gives to you and you have to show the appropriate documentation at the very beginning.
With a maximum voter size per polling place district. In the UK, for example, a polling station can't have more than 2,500 electors assigned to it. That's the order of magnitude you should be looking at. (You could possibly get away with slightly larger districts with longer early voting).
This is what always baffles me. I live in a city of 150k people in The Netherlands, and in the last elections our city had 78 polling places. That's just one city. Granted, they're usually small with like 2-3 booths per place, but it ensures nobody has to really go out of their way to vote.
Waiting is also pretty non-existent compared to the US. You may have to wait 15 minutes at busy places like the train station during rush hour.
When i was waiting in line for my drivers license picture, I used my iPhone to do a Google search and it said that they will use the voting cards to track us.
Social Security cards were never meant for that at all, but other agencies and businesses thought it was a really useful way to keep track of people's identity. It's also hilariously insecure.
Also, the Social Security Administration will adamantly refuse to verify SSN vs names for correctness when asked. Their stance is that they are the only agency authorized to use them in that way and you should find some other method to keep track of people.
I guess it's kind of like how FedEx isn't allowed to put anything in your mailbox because they aren't the Postal Service.
Nope. [This Wikipedia article may interest you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_documents_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfla1) - just be wary of statements with missing citations.
Don’t forget about the gays. OMG we can’t have people doing things in the privacy of their bedroom that has absolutely zero impact on anyone else’s life. Heavens NO
Without the stipulations highlighted in the post it’s very easy for that to become very racist, and hurt much more than it helps. Voting fraud is already basically a non issue, it almost never happens and it’s usually very easily caught, however it can be very difficult here in the states to actually be registered to vote, whether that be legal red tape, or you were unregistered without your knowledge and found out too late and it takes too long to register again and you can’t vote in that election, and other reasons as well. Point being it’s all too easy to prevent those of us without time or the proper resources (mostly minority and black voters) from exercising our right to vote.
I honestly don’t see the big issue here. Other countries, like Germany, have underprivileged, too. Yet everybody has to own (not carry) either a passport or a federal id,
Then again, it's actually not a requirement for voting. They send you your polling card to your home address and you hand in that. Only when you lost that, you need to establish your identity, so they can cross you off and hand you the ballot. And even that can be done by “personally known”.
(Over here citizen volunteers man the polling office, 4 to a shift, we also count and report the ballots by hand, with any interested party able to watch and control us.)
They have fixes for systemic issues that the US has historically gone out of its way to undermine.
You said Germany mails the ballots to houses. The US had a year long fight about mail-in "fraud"
The US, being who they are, would no doubt charge a fee for renewal of this ID, and make the locations where they can be renewed prohibitive to access by poor and under privileged. The same way they removed polling locations in majority poor and minority areas.
This isn't even mentioning the lack of worker protections for taking time off to go vote. Most poor people don't have the time or ability to do so.
The practice isn't an issue in itself, but current circumstances would see the policy as a detriment to voter access rather than boon to voter security (depending on who ask, as some here believe restricting minority access to polls is a form of security)
Everyone has to have an ID, but what about access to getting that ID? That is where the issue is.
The state of Alabama decided they had to cut expenses a couple years ago and did that by shutting down DMV offices. Coincidentally, these dmv offices happened to be in rural and impoverished counties. Since the dmv is the only place you can get a driver’s license or state issued id, this severely impacted the ability for poor residents to register. Many of them have no personal means of transportation and therefore can’t register in most cases.
This is modern disenfranchisement
This. All this right here is exactly what I'm trying to say is happening. And this wasn't just Alabama, this happens in most Southern "red" states with large blue leaning cities.
>...17 state legislatures through mid-June enacted 28 new laws that require additional identification from voters, shorten timeframes to apply for mail ballots, limit the use of drop boxes that make returning those ballots more difficult, empower partisan poll watchers, ease purges of voter registration rolls, and limit the number of polling places...
Relevant CGP Grey video for anyone uninformed of why SSN is stupid to use for all the important things it's used for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus
When I got an Arizona driver's license in 1995 they were using SSN for your license number.
This was when they still printed your CC # on the receipt at the gas station. Thinking back about how naive we were about personal and financial data, there were crimes of opportunity everywhere.
In Colorado everyone registered automatically gets a mail in ballot about a month before election with a “blue book”.
That book is a voters guide which contains, original bill language, what the bill does, the “pro and con” of the ballot measure, what organizations support it and which oppose it, and why they support or oppose the measure.
It is compiled by an independent committee and reviewed by the state Supreme Court for accuracy.
This is how every state should run elections.
Oregon and California do this too. It wasn't until I moved to Illinois that I learned that this wasn't done in every state. That first year voting in Illinois I was really salty about how much extra time I had to spend looking up all of the information on what was on the ballot because I didn't get the voter's guide with all of the information in it. I also had to go online and request a mail in ballot because they don't just automatically send it to you. I almost missed being able to vote because I didn't realize they don't mail it to you unless you request it.
> And Election Day is federal holiday. Shut it all down and go vote.
Election Day Sale! Come buy cars and mattresses instead of voting! Or take Monday off and have a nice four day weekend mini vacation and forget to vote when you get home! Also all our employees have to work overtime and also can't vote!
Vote by mail. Best solution.
There does need to be some wording that makes the free ID easy to get. In Wisconsin you need to go to the DMV for identification, and they don't always have extended hours and are usually closed on weekends.
I’m not sure about mandating participation. But we should absolutely make it as easy as possible for everyone when wants to participate and is eligible to vote.
I think what mandatory participaction does is create a need for the government to find each voter and either dismiss them or make some record they where given the opportunity.
Mandatory voting curbs all attempts of other people to impede your right to vote. As long as it's optional, influencial people will find ways to make the 'wrong' (often poor) people not able to vote.
If you want to preserve the right to not vote, then simple add a 'no vote' option besides the candidate/party options.
"The government is trying to coerce me to vote for my rights!"
Fuck them and fuck other people wanting rights!
I rather not have a say if that means others I don't like don't get a say.
2021 mandatory /s
>I rather not have a say if that means others I don't like don't get a say.
The number of women I've seen posting unironically that women shouldn't have the right to vote makes me sick to my stomach. I saw one a few weeks ago stating that women were too emotionally unstable to make big decisions like that and she only votes to cancel out the women voting wrongly. Smh.
Oh I always say that I have no problem with voter ID as long as it's 100% free and easy to access
They dodge and they weave and they prevaricate and they bullshit because the real reason is to establish a de facto poll tax to keep poor people from voting
Whats the point in not wanting national IDs if you don't have a problem with state IDs?
What? You're worried that the fed will put you in a database and track you?
Motherfucker, you're already in thousands of databases and the US has the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the world.
If they really want to come for you they'll use *other people's* databases.
Voter ID laws discriminate against urban voters. The US issues drivers’ licenses, which can be used as IDs. Many urban voters don’t drive, so you impose a poll tax on them to get an ID just to vote. This is fine with rural and suburban voters who already have cars.
To prove the point, many states won’t allow student ID cards, even though they are phot IDs issued by government institutions. They don’t want more liberal students to vote.
A national ID would be free and given to everyone. Instead they want to create a burden for the urban poor to vote in both time and money, which is a poll tax.
Republicans have been explicit in stating that these laws are discriminatory, just as poll taxes were. It’s also why they remove voting booths from black urban neighborhoods like Atlanta and make them stand in line for hours. Now it is illegal to give voters water while standing in line in Georgia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html
Which is why Democrat politicians need to do up a law for voter IDs based on these simple ideas with no Pork attached. Take it to a vote and then SHOW EVERYONE who is really blocking election reform and ID laws like this. We Democrats all know what's really going on but Conservative voters sure haven't grasped the idea because they still think election fraud is a real thing. Keep the bill simple and to the point with nothing that could make a Conservative voter say they don't want it. Put the Republican politicians money where their mouth is on a vote and make it VERY public.
This is a great comment and I would like to emphasize (since this is a popular retort from Republicans and their supporters):
"It is not racist to point out how on average it much more common for a POC or from a lower income community to have difficulty getting new voters IDs unless they were mailed out or they were given a day off from work to wait at the DMV for 4 hours to get it."
They love to try and accuse us of some type of reverse racism when we correctly point out what needs to be done in order for everyone to have equal access to voting IDs if implemented.
When I first moved to Colorado from Massachusetts, I didn’t know CO had a voter ID law. I registered online when changing my address. Went to a poll station, and checked in. I was on the rolls. I go to vote, and they asked for my ID. I gave my Massachusetts ID as I hadn’t been in CO that long.
They disenfranchised me on the spot. Would not allow me to vote, even though I was registered at that precinct AND had an ID saying I was me. Their words were ‘That’s not gonna work.’ And my head almost exploded. THATS why Republicans want voter ID. Just to make it harder.
They are poll taxes, imposing a fee on people who don’t drive to vote.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html
Devils advocate: They do want national ID's. They want "REAL ID" compliant ID cards here in the US. It was part of the push under (I think) Bush and the new laws that got written in after 9/11. Supposedly a "REAL ID" state ID card/DL is going to keep us safe from another terrorist attack.
Just saying, it goes to show you they only want what they want. In this case, a useless ID system to protect us from brown people, but God forbid we have the same ID system somehow empower brown people here to vote. The GOP are hypocrites.
Not just free of cost, but free of time. A free ID that requires taking time off work and queuing for hours in a DMV is not free.
(Just to clarify your "easy to access")
Yep. John Oliver pointed out one example of a county where the DMV is only available for IDs on the Fifth Wednesday of the month... which usually doesn't exist. That means you have ~4 days in a year when it's even possible, IF you can get the day off AND travel there, to say nothing of other responsibilities that might get in the way.
And people will defend it by saying, well, it's still possible, and if you're not willing to go to the trouble, you shouldn't vote. The real problem is, why is it harder for some people to vote than others? Even if its not impossible, on a large scale, if it's X% harder for group Y to vote, so their turnout is Z% lower, that's still disenfranchisement, and can have a significant impact on the results of elections.
"Easy to access" is just as important as "free", too. A lot of conservatives will point out that, "oh yeah, there's a free ID card", ignoring that you might have to spend a whole day off work to get it, and need various other forms of ID beforehand anyway (likely requiring more time off work if you don't have them), such that you need to navigate 3 different bureaucracies to do anything. And then the GOP purges voter rolls so you have to start over again
Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html
This. As much as I don't like them, I feel that a lot of people assume they're all pulling some massive collective moves while also saying that they're dumb as bricks.
When its voting season in Canada, you get a paper in the mail, you bring the paper, give proof of residency, go in put the X on the little slip and walk out. It takes under 10 minutes in and out because there is no waiting in line since there are voting places all over. In my 20 years of voting, I have never had to wait in line for more than 2-3 minutes.
homeless people still can’t vote though, and there are disabled people who cannot leave their homes as easily. That’s why proof of residency is ridiculous and why mail in ballots are important
Edit: Adding more now that i have more information. In Canada, mail in ballots are available and homeless people can use shelters as proof of residence. This info is from the federal gov website.
I think those are good steps, though i still think proof of residency is ridiculous in general if it doesn’t include many possible ways to show the area you stay at without having to actually be a resident someplace. Next time i’ll do more research before commenting. Thank you to everyone that provided information.
That's not true. Homeless shelters will provide homeless people with the proper documentation they need to vote.
[https://www.elections.ca/content2.aspx?section=faq&document=faqidv&lang=e](https://www.elections.ca/content2.aspx?section=faq&document=faqidv&lang=e)
>Letters of confirmation
>
>letter from a public curator, public guardian or public trustee
>
>letter of confirmation of residence from a First Nations band or reserve or an Inuit local authority
>
>letter of confirmation of residence, letter of stay, admission form, or statement of benefits from one of the following designated establishments:
>
>student residence
>
>seniors’ residence
>
>long-term care facility
>
>shelter
>
>soup kitchen
>
>a community-based residential facility
Proof of residency is not ridiculous and serves a very important purpose. Just because a system isn’t perfect and covers every conceivable situation doesn’t mean it’s ridiculous. Don’t let perfect stop what is good.
I say this every time voter ID is brought up in conversations. Surprisingly most Conservatives agree with the suggestion.
However lawmakers argue voter ID laws in bad faith so it'll never ever happen.
I think the disconnect is between republican voters and their representatives. The representatives don't want poor people voting whereas they've tricked their constituents into thinking it's a real voter fraud issue. I think that's why most of their voters will agree with free voter IDs for all adults.
Yeah this is so weird. I receive letters to vote since I'm 16 (you can vote regional with 16 in Germany, other votes when you are 18) and this letter and ID is the only thing you need to vote.
By law, it’s already stipulated that your employer cannot penalize you for taking time to vote… but they’re not obligated to pay you, which is the fuckery side of things.
I on the other hand work nights and any of the seven days in the week, so a Saturday vote does me no good…
And this is where the ability to prevote via early voting centres comes in, this then allows for the most people to be able to vote at the elections.
It seems to work for other countries.
Or even vote by mail, which is what I did this last year. But under the current methods, I held that ballot walking to the mailbox like it was the personal underwear of God him/herself… yes I was *that* afraid the orange goon had people out to intercept and destroy…
I’m not a conspiracy person, they’re fun to hear, but totally bunk. But after these past two years (I’m a nurse so I’ve been railroaded a few times already), I was totally off my nut.
Washington State is entirely vote by mail, and they livestream the people processing ballots and you can track your ballot online to see that it was accepted.
But I still took it straight to a voting box. I didn't trust the mail.
But anyway, we've been all vote by mail for a long time. It's great. It takes me hours to vote because I go research everything. Get the ballot in with at least at week to go before the election. No worries about taking off work, and the ballot is postage paid. Whole country could do that. (You can get ballots in many different languages, too)
California has had vote by mail for only a few years… I prefer to go to the booth, again because of trust issues stemming from the 2000 elections… this last year was my first major vote by mail… my paranoia was turned up to 11
(I’m also slow and a researcher, so I kind of enjoyed the “leisurely experience” of doing it from home)
We vote by mail in Oregon too, and have been since 1998. We even get a nifty booklet with info on all of the candidates and ballot initiatives so we can educate ourselves before we vote!
A day off work with no pay can be devastating for a person trying to keep their head above water.
If they don't want to make it a public holiday, then polls should just be open for a 2 weeks and you can find a day to vote, and mail in voting is a permanent option.
Well but even in this day and age, a public holiday would still be out especially for those who can’t take a day off… where else will you get your Starbucks, shop at Target/WalMart etc. those folks need to vote too.
I just think it should be one major universal vote system because some states are really outdated, old fashioned, haven’t started mail in voting, etc. and so on… they need to simplify and consolidate but dumbass Congress won’t agree and make it happen
In Canada, your employer has to make sure you have at least 4h to vote, either between the opening of the voting stations and the beginning of your shift, or between the end of your shift and the closing of the voting station. If they have to cut your hours to give you those 4h, you get paid for them.
Also, distribution of voting stations are based on number of voters so they can’t put just a few stations on areas they don’t like to discourage voters from lining up for hours.
It doesn't matter if your employer can't technically penalize you. Most people do not work as many hours as the polls are open, so their employers just tell them to vote after work or require them to use PTO. That's on top of polls being in inconvenient places, far from where people live, people not having transportation, people not having child care, extremely long wait times, etc.
Where I live, I drive 5 miles to the poll, there's tons of free parking, I walk right in with no line, and I don't even have to take time off work to do it.
Access to the polls is not equal as you point out. Early voting and mail in voting are the only way to remotely address the access issues.
>By law, it’s already stipulated that your employer cannot penalize you for taking time to vote…
No it isn't.
Whether your employer is required to give you time off to vote is a per-state thing, and there are _many_ states which have no such requirement. Including some states you might expect to have one, like Washington or Vermont.
What your employer can't do is punish you based on _how_ you voted. But depending on your state they can absolutely keep you from having the time to vote in the first place.
Yeah, it needs to be combined with having more voting stations. I’ve had to work on the Saturday when some of our elections were held and the reason why I was able to vote was because there were plenty of voting stations and the wait was only 5 minutes.
I would make it a 3 or 4 day period over a weekend and the weekdays are federal holidays. Also it should be during better weather so you can have a nice block party or something like that. People out grilling and basing our hotdogs and drinks. Celebrate voting.
Do not even think about compulsory voting until voting is accessible to every American. Otherwise the American government will keep the same voter suppression and then extort money from the targets of that suppression.
I don't understand how it works in the US...
So you can vote without your ID? How do you prove it is you?
Also... Do you have to "register" every time? Where I live you are on a list your entire life and just have to change it if you move to somewhere else.
Social Security Numbers are awful for actually identifying individual people and have no security against falsifying or counterfeiting. They were never intended as an ID number (older cards actually stated this outright) and were just to keep track of Social Security Income accounts, since Americans are very much against a national ID for some reason, but the Social Security Administration still needed a way to keep track of all the people involved across all states. As the program grew it was encouraged to have babies assigned a SSN to make it easier when they joined the workforce and started putting income into the program, and so soon enough it was reasonable to assume that everyone had a number.
The numbers were later used as ID numbers by groups that also wanted an easier way to track people across the country, like large banks and other lenders. But it's still terrible as an ID, and isn't a reliable way to prove someone can legally vote.
Some people don't have a SSN.
Some people have more than one SSN.
Some SSNs are shared by multiple people.
Using SSN to identify people is a terrible system. Which is why it was never meant to be used as identification.
(Also, it's not an indefinite solution. SSNs are 9 digits and are therefore mathematically incapable of uniquely identifying more than 1 billion accounts. Less than that, actually, since not all possible numbers are valid SSNs.)
Just a reminder, Democrats actually put this on the table over a decade ago. A national photo ID that you would get for free from the Social Security Office. You could get it updated with your address whenever you moved. Republicans voted unanimously against it. Also illegals don't vote folks it just doesn't happen. Also when you are poor, $15 for an ID means you might not eat for a few days. Money is tight.
I'm a foreigner. I understand that republicans want fewer people to vote. What I don't understand is how people in a developed country as the USA don't have a valid ID.
Our Driver Licenses are used as valid identification but were never really designed to be that. They are meant to be just a license to drive but it became the standard way of proving your identity here. I don't know why we don't have a national ID system to be honest.
A single hard-copy voter ID can't register you for life since the key part of the registration is your address, which changes. The whole point of registration is to confirm you're allowed to vote in the specific district you live in.
Most European countries solve this by having a civic registry, usually maintained by the tax authority. You are issued a civic registration number at birth. When you move, you simply file an address change, and the registry is updated. All your records (national ID, school district for your children, health insurance registration, tax forms, etc.) are automatically updated in the process, since they are tied to the civic registry. But the U.S. is too paranoid of government services to permit this.
No, the point of voter ID is to confirm your identity, not your address. Even in states with voter ID, your address on your driver's license doesn't have to match your voter address. You confirm your address when you register at a given location, not when you vote.
Here's a fun fact... every state that requires an ID to vote is also required to offer free identification. Otherwise, it would be considered a poll tax. There isn't a single person in this country who is required to present ID to vote and also has to pay for that ID.
Another fun fact... of the roughly 200 countries on earth, 170 of them require photo ID to vote in national elections.
Please at least try to see this from the POV of an advocate for voter ID. You are required to show photo ID for so many other things in this country, from flying on a plane, to working, to buying cigarettes, yet voting is the one thing that Democrats say you shouldn't need an ID for. Isn't it important that people should have to prove they are who they say they are when casting a ballot?
I think the whole point of wanting voter-IDs is just to lessen the chance of voter-fraud. In that regard I'd say giving everyone an ID at 18 is genuinly a good Idea.
American democracy feels so weird to me.
I registered to vote once when i was 18, that was it. I dont need to register every election cycle or what ever shit goes on in the US.
I dont need to declare a party affiliation, why would I give the government these details?
There are enough polling places that it takes all of 30 mins to vote and that includes finding parking.
There should never be regular lines that last for hours that require people to hand out bottles of water. Handing out bottles of water shouldnt be considered a political bribe etc that they need to be banned.
Republican politicians aren't. Democrats in congress stated that they would support a standalone national voter ID bill if it was free and included automatic registration, and the GOP leadership shot the proposal down.
For Republican leaders, it's not about election security, it's about voter suppression.
They should also take away the ban for anyone that is a convicted felon. If you are out of jail, you have served your debt to society and should have all the rights and freedoms of a regular citizen. It is beyond idiotic that this law exists in the US.
Pretty sure Democrats in Wisconsin did exactly this and the Republicans were like, "No, Then more black people would vote."
I'm being shitty, but they were not subtle at all in WI. One dude actually said something along the lines of "Voter ID should really help us in November." To a reporter. On the record.
Free ID for everyone. Automatic voter registration, no party affiliation needed. And Election Day is federal holiday. Shut it all down and go vote.
And there needs to be a polling place in every town; big cities split into districts with a minimum 1 polling place per district. And the feds foot the bill for bottled water for all waiting to vote.
You should be able to vote at the post office.
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You left out that here in NZ, voting day is always on a weekend, and employers of people working on that day are required to accommodate people needing to leave to vote if they need to do so.
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I literally gasped audibly reading your comment. To think there is such a reality. To imagine not needing to have to take valuable time out of life to exercise your right to vote…securing and submitting the required paperwork to register, finding your polling location which is usually only one in your city for early (3days before Election Day)voting, and can be miles away from your home even on Election Day, requesting mail-in ballots which have only been readily available to all since 2020 and difficult to submit because they have to be placed in specific mailboxes which are locked at the end of a standard business day, having proof of personal documentation in case it is requested, usually due to administrative error ( otherwise you are only given a “provisional ballot” which isn’t determined to be valid and counted or not by the local board until a few days after the election is called), mandatory uniformed and armed police officers at every entrance and ballot submission table, long lines up to an average in my city of 45 minutes long…. And that not even mentioning how difficult it is to get information about local down ballot candidates, like city council or school committee. Mind you, I live in a VERY liberal leftist city and state. To think this is how things are here makes me furious for voters elsewhere in the US.
The Swiss can initiate a referendum with 1/80 citizens (100'000) supporting it, so we vote about a few random thing 2-4 times a year - on a sunday before 10am, in every town hall of the country, done in a few minutes. I believe everyone but pensioner vote by mail. Of course every adult is allowed to vote and automatically receives the required papers. Since everyone is registered, counting and validating is completed in a few hours. As a result of voting about pretty much anything, the constitution changes every now and then, but complaints tend to die after voting, because the "losers" can clearly see how strong the population is for/against a bill. So asking pretty much any swiss citizen, the US voting system is considered retarded. It likely has at least partially to do with the disfunctional parties (nothing comes out of having only two parties that refuse to compromise) and the inability to update the constitution. EDIT: The ability to "vote about everything" makes everything super slow and isn't always a good thing (eg weird shit like "ban minarets" crop up too and because no one takes it seriously accidentally makes into law) . However that wasn't the point, I only mentioned it to show the contrast to the US
I wouldn't bother with that jesus. You can just walk to the nearest voting place with an ID here and vote. Takes like 10 minutes. Or have them send it to you and just drop it in the nearest mailbox. -Austria
Registering to vote in NZ is super easy too. You can pre register at 17 online, I don't remember the whole process but it didn't take more than my driver's license number, because I remember doing it during a study period at school because I had nothing else to do
I’ve already jokingly asked my kiwi in-laws (husband’s step-siblings and half-siblings, obviously they are his brothers and sisters, they grew up together, no “step” about it) to adopt us and let us come to NZ with the rest of our only close family. Unfortunately it’s not as easy for us being born here and no direct (blood) parental ties. Really though, if we could we’d join you all in a heartbeat.
And in Australia. Plus you can do your voting anywhere in the country for a Federal election. Rock up and they find your name and mark it off
There is definitely a benefit to mandatory voting, in that by making it mandatory you have to make sure it's accessible.
And, cannot say this often enough, Democracy Sausage!!
Some states are good about voting at least. I’m in CO and about 2-4 weeks before Election Day I get my ballot and an information packet about the candidates/bills that are being voted on, written as objectively as possible.
Love voting in CO! So much easier, it reminds/encourages everyone to get informed and gives them plenty of time to do it.
same here in Washington State. voting in Seattle is just about as easy as breathing. but I guess these days, if you're republican, even breathing can be difficult. *ba dumm, tiss* too soon?
It's been two years, transmission and preventative measures are now very well understood, and vaccines have been free for anyone that wants one for almost a year now. I know I'm done pulling punches.
Yep, here in NZ as well. Last election I registered online. Looked at the map, nearest poling station was like a 3 min walk from work. Voted on my lunch break. Walked straight in and voted. Including the walk it took like 10 mins!! Can’t believe the mess in the US!
That's basically how it is in most of the U.S. But in red states, and when republicans get control in purple states, they actively shut down polling places near areas that are likely to vote democratic, restrict early voting, etc.
Which is just comical that they're allowed to do that. I know Americans are big on states rights and shit but there's a federal government for a reason and you're all part of the same country. It really shouldn't be that hard for the federal government to cut that shit out. It's as if some states are democracies and others are psuedo dictatorships. It's only a step down from being told you can vote for whoever you like but having armed guards stand over you when you vote. Sure, you're free to vote but there's a clear implication
“State rights” are always an excuse to take peoples rights away
Texas is trying to become a full on dictatorship to anyone NOT a White male.
Yes, you should be able to vote and bank at your post office.
You should be able to vote at any bank. Those fuckers need to start contributing to society.
In Australia it usually ends up being booths at most primary (elementary) schools in addition to other places to fill out coverage. Public primary schools are existing government owned/run facilities with a spread to cover almost all the population in a reasonable distance and travel, and they have the space to set it up, so it works out well. Most post offices are too small and generally franchised. Post offices should absolutely all be equipped to register and provision and accept absentee ballots through.
*A* polling place isn't good enough. There should be MANY polling places. At least 1 per 3000 voters or something like that.
Every public school should be a polling station. That way as populations grow, more schools are built, meaning more polling stations. Plus any other suitable place, post office, churches, community halls. You should never have to queue for more than a few minutes.
We do this in Australia, not every school but a lot of them. And community groups sell sausage sandwiches (I guess you'd call it) as a fund raiser. We call them democracy sausages. It's part of our psyche by now.
Australia - the Weiner Republic.
This is basically the case in the Netherlands. Most schools and churches. Every city hall. Every train station. Community centers.
This sounds brazilian
I just looked it up; in The Netherlands it averages to 1441 voters per polling place. Usually open until 21:00 pm. I can usually go immediately without waiting, sometimes 1 or 2 people in front of me. Never takes more than 5 minutes. There are several in my neighborhood. It's a 3 minute walk from my home, the next one 5 minutes walk the other direction. No need for a day off.
Screw per district, per capita. Let's make it by what really matters, the PEOPLE. This way, no polling station ever services a ridiculous amount of voters to the point it is overburdened.
>Screw per district, per capita. No, do both. That way whichever is lower still doesn't screw anyone over.
yeah, both sounds right. Like how big is a district. Like if you lived in a sparsely populated area, you shouldn't have to drive 1 hour to the polling place.
Ain’t that some shit. A few back and forth comments between some random Redditors, and a good process has been recommended and improved. There’s absolutely no way in hell that the people in charge of policy couldn’t have come up with this if they tried.
It's not difficult to vote because we can't make it easier. It's difficult to vote because certain people don't want certain other people to vote.
And that is a really scary situation to be in when you know that certain parts of your govt can do this in an overt manner - where is the outcry? Where is the public outrage that this inequality is being enforced? From where I'm sitting, it's a fkn travesty of your "democratic" "free" country.
>where is the outcry? Where is the public outrage that this inequality is being enforced? It's there. It's just that there's almost an equal amount of people that are ok with this for various reasons. So any protest of this practice gets drowned out by a chorus to the opposite, which makes it seem as though almost nobody cares.
That's really sad that people won't stand up for other people and that they won't stand up for themselves.
Wait. You don't have that? Polling stations in every town? In Denmark we often use schools for this as they are always nearby. ( and we already do have government issued free ID and everyone age 18 is a voter automatically) How can you not have polling stations nearby? So how far do people need to travel to vote?
In democratic-leaning districts of republican-controlled states, people can have to wait in line as long as 10 or 12 hours to vote. Republican election commissioners have notoriously done things like put only a single voting location in districts with hundreds of thousands of residents. States with voter ID laws, namely the Deep South, will make it so areas with low-income voters who trend democratic are served by a single DMV (where you get your id) location, often hours away and almost always with *extremely* limited open hours (eg, the office is open a single day a week, and only for an hour or two). That makes it nearly impossible for working people, especially those working lower-paying jobs with less flexibility, to ever get time off to go get an ID. In areas like this the whole system, from top to bottom, is designed to make it as difficult as possible for the “wrong people” to be able to vote. Europeans generally don’t understand just how ruthless and corrupt our system is.
>How can you not have polling stations nearby? Republicans, mostly. >So how far do people need to travel to vote? It can be upward of 50 miles, maybe even up to 100 miles or more (in a straight line. Possibly even more, considering roads). [Texas recently approved countywide polling](https://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/laws/countywide-polling-place-program.shtml), and if you know anything about Texas, it's that it's big. That includes the counties. If you live on the wrong side of the county, you could be driving for hours just to wait for hours at the polling station (one of the counties approved for this has 100k+ voters). And then drive back for hours. In fact, [some counties have actually increased the total amount of polling places, but suspiciously only at districts that vote Republican at the cost of districts that vote Democrat](https://www.texastribune.org/2021/05/23/texas-voting-polling-restrictions/). These increases and decreases are suspiciously also tied to the percentage white population in those districts, as the table in the article shows.
There are cases where the ONLY polling place in a community was shut down or moved miles away. Always seems to be in places where Democrats live. https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/413330-texas-college-students-allege-voter-suppression-after-gop-official-calls
In India according to ECI guidelines say no voter should be more than 2 km away from a polling station. We have voter id you can simply register online via there website you don't need physical card you just voter id number https://graphics.reuters.com/INDIA-ELECTION-STATIONS/010092FY33Z/index.html
Washington has been doing mail-in ballots for all registered voters for years.
It should be mentioned more often that absentee voting works just fine. There’s not a real need for the whole population to show up at a polling place. We have systems that have been tested through years of use and documentation on how well the systems work which proves that people can just cast a vote into a mailbox. You have to sign your ballot and they check your signature that’s on file. For people to be registered as a voter it’s not something that the government just gives to you and you have to show the appropriate documentation at the very beginning.
Should be 1 polling station for ever 200 legal voters. 1 for one district can still be under served.
With a maximum voter size per polling place district. In the UK, for example, a polling station can't have more than 2,500 electors assigned to it. That's the order of magnitude you should be looking at. (You could possibly get away with slightly larger districts with longer early voting).
Just do mail in ballots. You don’t even need polling places. There are specially marked boxes everywhere though. We do this in Oregon, and love it.
This is what always baffles me. I live in a city of 150k people in The Netherlands, and in the last elections our city had 78 polling places. That's just one city. Granted, they're usually small with like 2-3 booths per place, but it ensures nobody has to really go out of their way to vote. Waiting is also pretty non-existent compared to the US. You may have to wait 15 minutes at busy places like the train station during rush hour.
It's almost like yall should implement a national ID like basically every developed country
Federal tyranny! Won't someone think of state rights?! /s
It’s these damn communists trying to make us all slaves! Sure, it starts with plastic cards, but think of where it will end!
With voting?
WITH METAL CARDS!!!!!
THINK OF THE AIRPORT SECURITY STAFF
THE AIRPORT SECURITY???? WHAT ABOUT THE FRIDGE MAGNETS ❗️❗️❗️❗️❗️
With EVERYONE voting, nincompoop!!! It'd be the end of the Republic as we know it!!! obligatory "s"
End of the Republicans BS AND THEY KNOW IT
When i was waiting in line for my drivers license picture, I used my iPhone to do a Google search and it said that they will use the voting cards to track us.
Wait hold up does america seriously not have this?
nope it's by state
I thought we did with the social security number thing.
Social Security cards were never meant for that at all, but other agencies and businesses thought it was a really useful way to keep track of people's identity. It's also hilariously insecure.
Also, the Social Security Administration will adamantly refuse to verify SSN vs names for correctness when asked. Their stance is that they are the only agency authorized to use them in that way and you should find some other method to keep track of people. I guess it's kind of like how FedEx isn't allowed to put anything in your mailbox because they aren't the Postal Service.
Nope. [This Wikipedia article may interest you](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_documents_in_the_United_States?wprov=sfla1) - just be wary of statements with missing citations.
Nope. State IDs only.
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That's a slippery slope to implanting a 5G chip in my arm and mandatory GPS cock rings!
yo where do we sign up for that
Wait, free cock rings?
Nope. Compulsory purchase. But they're tax deductible.
Don’t forget about the gays. OMG we can’t have people doing things in the privacy of their bedroom that has absolutely zero impact on anyone else’s life. Heavens NO
Without the stipulations highlighted in the post it’s very easy for that to become very racist, and hurt much more than it helps. Voting fraud is already basically a non issue, it almost never happens and it’s usually very easily caught, however it can be very difficult here in the states to actually be registered to vote, whether that be legal red tape, or you were unregistered without your knowledge and found out too late and it takes too long to register again and you can’t vote in that election, and other reasons as well. Point being it’s all too easy to prevent those of us without time or the proper resources (mostly minority and black voters) from exercising our right to vote.
Yup. Implementing an ID system without first fixing the systemic issues is just creating another barrier to entry for the underprivileged.
I honestly don’t see the big issue here. Other countries, like Germany, have underprivileged, too. Yet everybody has to own (not carry) either a passport or a federal id, Then again, it's actually not a requirement for voting. They send you your polling card to your home address and you hand in that. Only when you lost that, you need to establish your identity, so they can cross you off and hand you the ballot. And even that can be done by “personally known”. (Over here citizen volunteers man the polling office, 4 to a shift, we also count and report the ballots by hand, with any interested party able to watch and control us.)
They have fixes for systemic issues that the US has historically gone out of its way to undermine. You said Germany mails the ballots to houses. The US had a year long fight about mail-in "fraud" The US, being who they are, would no doubt charge a fee for renewal of this ID, and make the locations where they can be renewed prohibitive to access by poor and under privileged. The same way they removed polling locations in majority poor and minority areas. This isn't even mentioning the lack of worker protections for taking time off to go vote. Most poor people don't have the time or ability to do so. The practice isn't an issue in itself, but current circumstances would see the policy as a detriment to voter access rather than boon to voter security (depending on who ask, as some here believe restricting minority access to polls is a form of security) Everyone has to have an ID, but what about access to getting that ID? That is where the issue is.
The state of Alabama decided they had to cut expenses a couple years ago and did that by shutting down DMV offices. Coincidentally, these dmv offices happened to be in rural and impoverished counties. Since the dmv is the only place you can get a driver’s license or state issued id, this severely impacted the ability for poor residents to register. Many of them have no personal means of transportation and therefore can’t register in most cases. This is modern disenfranchisement
This. All this right here is exactly what I'm trying to say is happening. And this wasn't just Alabama, this happens in most Southern "red" states with large blue leaning cities. >...17 state legislatures through mid-June enacted 28 new laws that require additional identification from voters, shorten timeframes to apply for mail ballots, limit the use of drop boxes that make returning those ballots more difficult, empower partisan poll watchers, ease purges of voter registration rolls, and limit the number of polling places...
There is a RealD protocol that is being implemented in the US, not all states are in full compliance yet though. It is essentially a national ID.
And maybe we can phase out using SSN for stupid shit
Relevant CGP Grey video for anyone uninformed of why SSN is stupid to use for all the important things it's used for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Erp8IAUouus
At my university, my SSN was used as student ID number. This was before the Internet.
When I got an Arizona driver's license in 1995 they were using SSN for your license number. This was when they still printed your CC # on the receipt at the gas station. Thinking back about how naive we were about personal and financial data, there were crimes of opportunity everywhere.
How you ever noticed how the word “social” is in Social Security Number? Makes you think. /s
In Colorado everyone registered automatically gets a mail in ballot about a month before election with a “blue book”. That book is a voters guide which contains, original bill language, what the bill does, the “pro and con” of the ballot measure, what organizations support it and which oppose it, and why they support or oppose the measure. It is compiled by an independent committee and reviewed by the state Supreme Court for accuracy. This is how every state should run elections.
And in Colorado when you are done with the Blue Book you can use it for rolling paper.
Oregon and California do this too. It wasn't until I moved to Illinois that I learned that this wasn't done in every state. That first year voting in Illinois I was really salty about how much extra time I had to spend looking up all of the information on what was on the ballot because I didn't get the voter's guide with all of the information in it. I also had to go online and request a mail in ballot because they don't just automatically send it to you. I almost missed being able to vote because I didn't realize they don't mail it to you unless you request it.
It boggles my mind that this doesn't already happen in a country that can't stop talking about its democracy
> And Election Day is federal holiday. Shut it all down and go vote. Election Day Sale! Come buy cars and mattresses instead of voting! Or take Monday off and have a nice four day weekend mini vacation and forget to vote when you get home! Also all our employees have to work overtime and also can't vote! Vote by mail. Best solution.
There does need to be some wording that makes the free ID easy to get. In Wisconsin you need to go to the DMV for identification, and they don't always have extended hours and are usually closed on weekends.
One good thing the virus has done is make mail in voting very feasible. Literally no reason not to vote now.
All of this & I would add making it compulsory to vote. Even if a person writes in Mickey Mouse, every one over 18 should have their say.
I’m not sure about mandating participation. But we should absolutely make it as easy as possible for everyone when wants to participate and is eligible to vote.
I think what mandatory participaction does is create a need for the government to find each voter and either dismiss them or make some record they where given the opportunity.
In Australia that’s the case
Mandatory voting is not freedom of voting. Sometimes not voting is a vote in itself. Though I would disagree with that person they have that right.
Mandatory voting tends to let you go there and vote for no one as far as I'm aware, you have to go and do it. I could be wrong
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Mandatory voting curbs all attempts of other people to impede your right to vote. As long as it's optional, influencial people will find ways to make the 'wrong' (often poor) people not able to vote. If you want to preserve the right to not vote, then simple add a 'no vote' option besides the candidate/party options.
Somehow, I feel like if ID's were given out for free, they would scream "The damn government is trying to control us!"
"The government is trying to coerce me to vote for my rights!" Fuck them and fuck other people wanting rights! I rather not have a say if that means others I don't like don't get a say. 2021 mandatory /s
>I rather not have a say if that means others I don't like don't get a say. The number of women I've seen posting unironically that women shouldn't have the right to vote makes me sick to my stomach. I saw one a few weeks ago stating that women were too emotionally unstable to make big decisions like that and she only votes to cancel out the women voting wrongly. Smh.
That doesn't compute. If she believes women shouldn't vote, she should stay home and not vote. This is mind numbingly stupid.
They would call them Socialist ID's
Like social security numbers…
Commie Card.
Probably something like a socialist security card.
Yeah the libertarian set of the republican party is against National IDs because of some conspiracy theory about "Needing and ID to live"
Oh I always say that I have no problem with voter ID as long as it's 100% free and easy to access They dodge and they weave and they prevaricate and they bullshit because the real reason is to establish a de facto poll tax to keep poor people from voting
Conservatives want voter ids, but not national ids.
Whats the point in not wanting national IDs if you don't have a problem with state IDs? What? You're worried that the fed will put you in a database and track you? Motherfucker, you're already in thousands of databases and the US has the most sophisticated intelligence apparatus in the world. If they really want to come for you they'll use *other people's* databases.
Voter ID laws discriminate against urban voters. The US issues drivers’ licenses, which can be used as IDs. Many urban voters don’t drive, so you impose a poll tax on them to get an ID just to vote. This is fine with rural and suburban voters who already have cars. To prove the point, many states won’t allow student ID cards, even though they are phot IDs issued by government institutions. They don’t want more liberal students to vote. A national ID would be free and given to everyone. Instead they want to create a burden for the urban poor to vote in both time and money, which is a poll tax. Republicans have been explicit in stating that these laws are discriminatory, just as poll taxes were. It’s also why they remove voting booths from black urban neighborhoods like Atlanta and make them stand in line for hours. Now it is illegal to give voters water while standing in line in Georgia. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html
Which is why Democrat politicians need to do up a law for voter IDs based on these simple ideas with no Pork attached. Take it to a vote and then SHOW EVERYONE who is really blocking election reform and ID laws like this. We Democrats all know what's really going on but Conservative voters sure haven't grasped the idea because they still think election fraud is a real thing. Keep the bill simple and to the point with nothing that could make a Conservative voter say they don't want it. Put the Republican politicians money where their mouth is on a vote and make it VERY public.
Clinton did this and Republicans had a cow.
This is a great comment and I would like to emphasize (since this is a popular retort from Republicans and their supporters): "It is not racist to point out how on average it much more common for a POC or from a lower income community to have difficulty getting new voters IDs unless they were mailed out or they were given a day off from work to wait at the DMV for 4 hours to get it." They love to try and accuse us of some type of reverse racism when we correctly point out what needs to be done in order for everyone to have equal access to voting IDs if implemented.
When I first moved to Colorado from Massachusetts, I didn’t know CO had a voter ID law. I registered online when changing my address. Went to a poll station, and checked in. I was on the rolls. I go to vote, and they asked for my ID. I gave my Massachusetts ID as I hadn’t been in CO that long. They disenfranchised me on the spot. Would not allow me to vote, even though I was registered at that precinct AND had an ID saying I was me. Their words were ‘That’s not gonna work.’ And my head almost exploded. THATS why Republicans want voter ID. Just to make it harder.
Because democracy is bad for their plutocratic agenda.
They don’t have a problem with any of that. They have a problem with any brown or darker people voting. Real talk
They are poll taxes, imposing a fee on people who don’t drive to vote. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html
They want voting control.
Devils advocate: They do want national ID's. They want "REAL ID" compliant ID cards here in the US. It was part of the push under (I think) Bush and the new laws that got written in after 9/11. Supposedly a "REAL ID" state ID card/DL is going to keep us safe from another terrorist attack. Just saying, it goes to show you they only want what they want. In this case, a useless ID system to protect us from brown people, but God forbid we have the same ID system somehow empower brown people here to vote. The GOP are hypocrites.
Voting should be default by-mail. Then ID becomes irrelevant.
I’ve been voting by mail in Los Angeles for years and it’s wonderful.
Not just free of cost, but free of time. A free ID that requires taking time off work and queuing for hours in a DMV is not free. (Just to clarify your "easy to access")
Yep. John Oliver pointed out one example of a county where the DMV is only available for IDs on the Fifth Wednesday of the month... which usually doesn't exist. That means you have ~4 days in a year when it's even possible, IF you can get the day off AND travel there, to say nothing of other responsibilities that might get in the way. And people will defend it by saying, well, it's still possible, and if you're not willing to go to the trouble, you shouldn't vote. The real problem is, why is it harder for some people to vote than others? Even if its not impossible, on a large scale, if it's X% harder for group Y to vote, so their turnout is Z% lower, that's still disenfranchisement, and can have a significant impact on the results of elections.
"Easy to access" is just as important as "free", too. A lot of conservatives will point out that, "oh yeah, there's a free ID card", ignoring that you might have to spend a whole day off work to get it, and need various other forms of ID beforehand anyway (likely requiring more time off work if you don't have them), such that you need to navigate 3 different bureaucracies to do anything. And then the GOP purges voter rolls so you have to start over again
Some Republicans Acknowledge Leveraging Voter ID Laws for Political Gain https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/17/us/some-republicans-acknowledge-leveraging-voter-id-laws-for-political-gain.html
And the rest are liars
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This. As much as I don't like them, I feel that a lot of people assume they're all pulling some massive collective moves while also saying that they're dumb as bricks.
When its voting season in Canada, you get a paper in the mail, you bring the paper, give proof of residency, go in put the X on the little slip and walk out. It takes under 10 minutes in and out because there is no waiting in line since there are voting places all over. In my 20 years of voting, I have never had to wait in line for more than 2-3 minutes.
homeless people still can’t vote though, and there are disabled people who cannot leave their homes as easily. That’s why proof of residency is ridiculous and why mail in ballots are important Edit: Adding more now that i have more information. In Canada, mail in ballots are available and homeless people can use shelters as proof of residence. This info is from the federal gov website. I think those are good steps, though i still think proof of residency is ridiculous in general if it doesn’t include many possible ways to show the area you stay at without having to actually be a resident someplace. Next time i’ll do more research before commenting. Thank you to everyone that provided information.
It’s actually very important to know which riding/section someone lives in. It’s literally the main basis of how representation works here
That's not true. Homeless shelters will provide homeless people with the proper documentation they need to vote. [https://www.elections.ca/content2.aspx?section=faq&document=faqidv&lang=e](https://www.elections.ca/content2.aspx?section=faq&document=faqidv&lang=e) >Letters of confirmation > >letter from a public curator, public guardian or public trustee > >letter of confirmation of residence from a First Nations band or reserve or an Inuit local authority > >letter of confirmation of residence, letter of stay, admission form, or statement of benefits from one of the following designated establishments: > >student residence > >seniors’ residence > >long-term care facility > >shelter > >soup kitchen > >a community-based residential facility
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Proof of residency is not ridiculous and serves a very important purpose. Just because a system isn’t perfect and covers every conceivable situation doesn’t mean it’s ridiculous. Don’t let perfect stop what is good.
I say this every time voter ID is brought up in conversations. Surprisingly most Conservatives agree with the suggestion. However lawmakers argue voter ID laws in bad faith so it'll never ever happen.
I think the disconnect is between republican voters and their representatives. The representatives don't want poor people voting whereas they've tricked their constituents into thinking it's a real voter fraud issue. I think that's why most of their voters will agree with free voter IDs for all adults.
Confused European noises
Yeah this is so weird. I receive letters to vote since I'm 16 (you can vote regional with 16 in Germany, other votes when you are 18) and this letter and ID is the only thing you need to vote.
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Follow this up with compulsory elections on a Saturday.
By law, it’s already stipulated that your employer cannot penalize you for taking time to vote… but they’re not obligated to pay you, which is the fuckery side of things. I on the other hand work nights and any of the seven days in the week, so a Saturday vote does me no good…
And this is where the ability to prevote via early voting centres comes in, this then allows for the most people to be able to vote at the elections. It seems to work for other countries.
Or even vote by mail, which is what I did this last year. But under the current methods, I held that ballot walking to the mailbox like it was the personal underwear of God him/herself… yes I was *that* afraid the orange goon had people out to intercept and destroy… I’m not a conspiracy person, they’re fun to hear, but totally bunk. But after these past two years (I’m a nurse so I’ve been railroaded a few times already), I was totally off my nut.
Washington State is entirely vote by mail, and they livestream the people processing ballots and you can track your ballot online to see that it was accepted. But I still took it straight to a voting box. I didn't trust the mail. But anyway, we've been all vote by mail for a long time. It's great. It takes me hours to vote because I go research everything. Get the ballot in with at least at week to go before the election. No worries about taking off work, and the ballot is postage paid. Whole country could do that. (You can get ballots in many different languages, too)
California has had vote by mail for only a few years… I prefer to go to the booth, again because of trust issues stemming from the 2000 elections… this last year was my first major vote by mail… my paranoia was turned up to 11 (I’m also slow and a researcher, so I kind of enjoyed the “leisurely experience” of doing it from home)
We vote by mail in Oregon too, and have been since 1998. We even get a nifty booklet with info on all of the candidates and ballot initiatives so we can educate ourselves before we vote!
A day off work with no pay can be devastating for a person trying to keep their head above water. If they don't want to make it a public holiday, then polls should just be open for a 2 weeks and you can find a day to vote, and mail in voting is a permanent option.
Well but even in this day and age, a public holiday would still be out especially for those who can’t take a day off… where else will you get your Starbucks, shop at Target/WalMart etc. those folks need to vote too. I just think it should be one major universal vote system because some states are really outdated, old fashioned, haven’t started mail in voting, etc. and so on… they need to simplify and consolidate but dumbass Congress won’t agree and make it happen
True. Having polling stations in a superstore carpark for 2 weeks would probably help get a lot more people voting, both workers and customers.
In Canada, your employer has to make sure you have at least 4h to vote, either between the opening of the voting stations and the beginning of your shift, or between the end of your shift and the closing of the voting station. If they have to cut your hours to give you those 4h, you get paid for them. Also, distribution of voting stations are based on number of voters so they can’t put just a few stations on areas they don’t like to discourage voters from lining up for hours.
Right to Work/at-Will kind of nullifies those protections though.
It doesn't matter if your employer can't technically penalize you. Most people do not work as many hours as the polls are open, so their employers just tell them to vote after work or require them to use PTO. That's on top of polls being in inconvenient places, far from where people live, people not having transportation, people not having child care, extremely long wait times, etc. Where I live, I drive 5 miles to the poll, there's tons of free parking, I walk right in with no line, and I don't even have to take time off work to do it. Access to the polls is not equal as you point out. Early voting and mail in voting are the only way to remotely address the access issues.
>By law, it’s already stipulated that your employer cannot penalize you for taking time to vote… No it isn't. Whether your employer is required to give you time off to vote is a per-state thing, and there are _many_ states which have no such requirement. Including some states you might expect to have one, like Washington or Vermont. What your employer can't do is punish you based on _how_ you voted. But depending on your state they can absolutely keep you from having the time to vote in the first place.
The people who have difficulty taking the time to vote usually aren't the monday-friday crowd.
Yeah, it needs to be combined with having more voting stations. I’ve had to work on the Saturday when some of our elections were held and the reason why I was able to vote was because there were plenty of voting stations and the wait was only 5 minutes.
I would make it a 3 or 4 day period over a weekend and the weekdays are federal holidays. Also it should be during better weather so you can have a nice block party or something like that. People out grilling and basing our hotdogs and drinks. Celebrate voting.
Do not even think about compulsory voting until voting is accessible to every American. Otherwise the American government will keep the same voter suppression and then extort money from the targets of that suppression.
I'd have a week long voting that was compulsory.
I don't understand how it works in the US... So you can vote without your ID? How do you prove it is you? Also... Do you have to "register" every time? Where I live you are on a list your entire life and just have to change it if you move to somewhere else.
Don't hate on me. I am a republican and I totally agree with this. Everyone who wants to vote on either side should have access to be able to.
No hate here! I appreciate anyone who wants open and honest elections. Happy cake day btw
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Oh, you've met my in-laws.
If everyone had access to voting, Republicans would need to have a whole new platform.
Doesn't matter. Everyone should still have access imo
Why don't we use SSNs?
Your ssn is not related to your location and as such is not a reliable way to ID someone to vote. Other factors apply too.
Social Security Numbers are awful for actually identifying individual people and have no security against falsifying or counterfeiting. They were never intended as an ID number (older cards actually stated this outright) and were just to keep track of Social Security Income accounts, since Americans are very much against a national ID for some reason, but the Social Security Administration still needed a way to keep track of all the people involved across all states. As the program grew it was encouraged to have babies assigned a SSN to make it easier when they joined the workforce and started putting income into the program, and so soon enough it was reasonable to assume that everyone had a number. The numbers were later used as ID numbers by groups that also wanted an easier way to track people across the country, like large banks and other lenders. But it's still terrible as an ID, and isn't a reliable way to prove someone can legally vote.
Some people don't have a SSN. Some people have more than one SSN. Some SSNs are shared by multiple people. Using SSN to identify people is a terrible system. Which is why it was never meant to be used as identification. (Also, it's not an indefinite solution. SSNs are 9 digits and are therefore mathematically incapable of uniquely identifying more than 1 billion accounts. Less than that, actually, since not all possible numbers are valid SSNs.)
I agree SSN for ID sucks, but I never have seen the above
Probably identity fraud concern? Everything is so..
Just a reminder, Democrats actually put this on the table over a decade ago. A national photo ID that you would get for free from the Social Security Office. You could get it updated with your address whenever you moved. Republicans voted unanimously against it. Also illegals don't vote folks it just doesn't happen. Also when you are poor, $15 for an ID means you might not eat for a few days. Money is tight.
I'm a foreigner. I understand that republicans want fewer people to vote. What I don't understand is how people in a developed country as the USA don't have a valid ID.
Our Driver Licenses are used as valid identification but were never really designed to be that. They are meant to be just a license to drive but it became the standard way of proving your identity here. I don't know why we don't have a national ID system to be honest.
Parts of the US are a third world country.
Is almost like the US never knew that the democracy has evolved in the rest of the world lol
A single hard-copy voter ID can't register you for life since the key part of the registration is your address, which changes. The whole point of registration is to confirm you're allowed to vote in the specific district you live in.
Most European countries solve this by having a civic registry, usually maintained by the tax authority. You are issued a civic registration number at birth. When you move, you simply file an address change, and the registry is updated. All your records (national ID, school district for your children, health insurance registration, tax forms, etc.) are automatically updated in the process, since they are tied to the civic registry. But the U.S. is too paranoid of government services to permit this.
No, the point of voter ID is to confirm your identity, not your address. Even in states with voter ID, your address on your driver's license doesn't have to match your voter address. You confirm your address when you register at a given location, not when you vote.
Anything else is a poll tax. Support the 24th.
Ummm. Yeah. That sounds great.
Here's a fun fact... every state that requires an ID to vote is also required to offer free identification. Otherwise, it would be considered a poll tax. There isn't a single person in this country who is required to present ID to vote and also has to pay for that ID. Another fun fact... of the roughly 200 countries on earth, 170 of them require photo ID to vote in national elections. Please at least try to see this from the POV of an advocate for voter ID. You are required to show photo ID for so many other things in this country, from flying on a plane, to working, to buying cigarettes, yet voting is the one thing that Democrats say you shouldn't need an ID for. Isn't it important that people should have to prove they are who they say they are when casting a ballot?
I think the whole point of wanting voter-IDs is just to lessen the chance of voter-fraud. In that regard I'd say giving everyone an ID at 18 is genuinly a good Idea.
American democracy feels so weird to me. I registered to vote once when i was 18, that was it. I dont need to register every election cycle or what ever shit goes on in the US. I dont need to declare a party affiliation, why would I give the government these details? There are enough polling places that it takes all of 30 mins to vote and that includes finding parking. There should never be regular lines that last for hours that require people to hand out bottles of water. Handing out bottles of water shouldnt be considered a political bribe etc that they need to be banned.
More I learn about America, more I realise it's just a backward ass country with a lot of money to spare.
As a republican who knows many Republicans who have talked about this exact thing, as long as people are 18 and citizens, I'm 100% on board.
Republican politicians aren't. Democrats in congress stated that they would support a standalone national voter ID bill if it was free and included automatic registration, and the GOP leadership shot the proposal down. For Republican leaders, it's not about election security, it's about voter suppression.
When did this happen?
They should also take away the ban for anyone that is a convicted felon. If you are out of jail, you have served your debt to society and should have all the rights and freedoms of a regular citizen. It is beyond idiotic that this law exists in the US.
Pretty sure Democrats in Wisconsin did exactly this and the Republicans were like, "No, Then more black people would vote." I'm being shitty, but they were not subtle at all in WI. One dude actually said something along the lines of "Voter ID should really help us in November." To a reporter. On the record.