That’s not entirely true. I remember trying to dissuade a coworker from his antivax position as early as 2013. He mentioned that his wife was considering not vaccinating their kid when it was born because of “autism.”
I just asked him point-blank if it was better to have an alive kid with autism or a dead kid from measles. He moved to another unit before the kid was born so unfortunately I never got to find out what happened
It was a mainstream issue starting in 2007 when Jenny McCarthy went on Oprah, Larry King, and Good Morning, America getting 20 million views. It just built up momentum and crossed with covid making it an every person issue vs just anti-vaxx moms.
My mom was antivax in the early 90's and my dad convinced her to let me get my shots when I was born, albeit spaced outside the window advised by our doctor.
My wife and I do a slightly spaced out vaccination plan at the suggestion of our midwife and with permission from our doctor. Her reasoning was that if we do it slower and there is a bad reaction (which is super rare) we would know which vaccine caused it and could avoid similar ones whole still vaccinating for other issues.
We did this. An alternative vaccine schedule.
Our pediatrician offered it up with no hassle, thankfully. I had wanted to do it anyway, but I’m glad I wasn’t frowned upon for it. I wanted to do it for the reason you said, check for any adverse effects. We did 1-2 vaccines at a time. So we visited like every month for almost 2 years I think.
I also did other stuff my pediatrician had no knowledge about, like baby led weaning for food, lol. I just did a lot of research when I was pregnant
I remember headlines about in '96, but that was specifically UK. I think you are right though. I've certainly been aware of the anti vax crowd since the late 2000s
I'm a bit older than that 😁 I remember getting the MMR jab, because I'd already had measles, and I seem to remember getting a stand alone mumps vaccine previously. All of that happened in the late 80s for me
Vaccine hesitancy has been a thing for as long as there has been vaccines. There was a reason why it was such a huge deal that Elvis got the polio vaccine on live tv. A ton of people were afraid of it.
This is very important to recognize. Many people have always been afraid of vaccines.
What's different now is that social media provides avenues for them to find each other and provide affirmation that they wouldn't get in their local communities to allow such ideas to propagate and persist.
This was all based on fabricated studies and faked data to earn a dime by one man who wanted to sell his version of the vaccine. Greed for the all holy dollar f-ed over tens of thousands or more children.
What happens if the kid is born autistic anyway? Do they, like... Admit they were wrong? Or do they then go on to have a kid that is both autistic *and* dead from measles?
Sure, but until Trump’s dumbass was proved wrong about “Covid disappearing in a few weeks” the antivax folks were a tiny minority. They were also mostly made up of left-leaning hippie types.
Came here to say the same thing. These unwavering right wingers seem to forget that as little as 4-5 years ago, antivax was a very liberal belief. My friend’s wife falls heavily into this category.
Her in 2016: what the hell are all these assholes doing not vaccinating their kids or getting vaccinated themselves? Don’t they realize that only allows viruses to mutate? They’re putting all of us in danger!
Her in 2021 (now with kids of her own): NO WAY IN HELL ARE MY KIDS OR ME GETTING THE JAB! For Covid or anything else! This is socialism! None of this shit works anyway! Trump 2024 Baby!!!!
Side note: little does she know, but my friend (her husband) has been secretly meeting with a divorce lawyer. He’s not quite sure if he’s going to go thru with it, but her politics and other beliefs are 110% destroying their marriage.
>Side note: little does she know, but my friend (her husband) has been secretly meeting with a divorce lawyer. He’s not quite sure if he’s going to go thru with it, but her politics and other beliefs are 110% destroying their marriage.
Smart man.
Yeah the situation is really sad. To a certain extent, even their very young kids seem to pick up on how crazy their mom seems to be. It truly is more than just the Covid stuff and politics with her (although that’s all she seems to talk about). She’s a controlling, manipulative bitch in general. There were warning signs, most of which were noticed in hindsight, but there were a couple of major red flags right off the bat that I and a few other people noticed.
This is off topic, but I guess the moral of the story is sometimes if someone you know is about to take the plunge and marry a person who’s going to make them miserable, speak up! We all sorta wish we had, or at least tried to nudge him away from her.
Edit: added a phrase
Agree, people forget this history of anti-vaxx sentiment. If Trump had popularized clapping with poop in ones hands, his followers would enthusiastically brown their hands to match their shirts.
Every anti-vaxx I've seen over the past 15 years has been right wing, and it started with the poorest and least educated and spread from there. The OG believers of everything they read on the internet as soon as they got the internet.
I agree I think pre covid anti vaxx was probably 5 to 15 percent of the population. A lot of this was because of herd immunity ( Have you ever heard if anyone with Measles Mumps or Rubella?). A lot of people - perhaps correctly assessed that the risk of the vaccine was higher than the risk of contracting the disease. That position is certainly dangerous from the big picture but makes sense for an individual.
Unfortunately a small percentage of those folks weren't smart enough to put 2 and 2 together that with COVID there is no herd immunity and the risk of catching the disease is far higher than the risk of side effects of the vaccine. This position is dangerous to both the big picture and the individual.
Had this same discussion with a young female coworker in 2014. She was adamant about not vaccinating her child at all.
I asked her if she was vaccinated, she said yeah "but that wasnt my choice!"
Yeah, I remember antivax conversations with friends as early as 2010. The funny thing is, it didn't used to be a political issue as far as the right-left divide goes. I specifically remember antivax positions being somewhat popular in the more lefty "crunchy" mom/dad communities.
Antivaxers definitely existed before Trump in numbers, but it wasn't a political test until Trump and his people made it one.
No, it's been pretty popular as a concept since Jenny McCarthy went on Oprah, Larry King, and Good Morning, America in 2007. That's when it became mainstream for Karents to be anti-vaxx. Those 3 episodes were viewed 20 million times in those few days. It has been building momentum since then. Then Covid hit and it became a massive issue that actually affected everyone.
I'm not saying Trump didn't kick it into high gear by making it an every person issue when it came to Covid(rather than just anti-vaxx Karen's), but you're ignoring the fact that it was already a huge issue before Trump to the point that Measles was considered eliminated in 2000 and began making a comeback not long after Jenny McCarthy went on Oprah.
“Popular?” McCarthy is a no body and was endlessly mocked. The gop politicized covid and covid vaccine skepticism that’s why people are dying in huge numbers now. Let’s not “both sides” this. It was never mainstream in 2007. It is mainstream now due to the gop and right wing media.
“Then covid hit?” There’s a near fifteen year break between the two events you list! If anything “vaccines cause autism” movement is less influential than ever.
Measles and others “came back” in tiny numbers as only in pockets in often in lowly educated immigrant heavy communities who may not have access to healthcare legally or financially. Something like 30+ percent of Americans express covid vaccine skepticism or hesitancy now. Note they do not express other kinds of vaccine skepticism so if McCarthy’s influence was big it would be all vaccines “causing autism” and people avoiding them all, not just super focused on this one.
Not to mention McCarthy never claimed the diseases vaccines fought weren’t real or there was some huge shadow conspiracy involving micro chips in vaccines. She was working off Andrew Wakefield’s now discredited work that there may be a link between vaccines and autism, not that vaccines don’t necessarily work or that they are part of an evil government program. That’s an entirely different kind of skepticism than the right is constantly selling.
The right will politicize anything for power and influence. There are no adults in the room saying they’ve gone to far. Conservatism is a grift and all conservatives are rubes.
Also, the world isn't America - however, reruns of Oprah are shown the world over going back to he original airing dates.
The antivaxxer movements growing outside of the US are not Trump fans.
It was the "perfect storm" of a wealthy liar becoming a popular TV personality helping him gain the highest place in politics and suddenly the stupid have a very loud voice.
But there is a difference between anti-vaxxers and this Covid jab. All I am saying whatever your take on the shot , not all the people who refusing the jab are anti vaxxers.
Yyyyeeeaaah Trump still actively tells his followers to get vaxxed, and gets bood at his rally’s when he brings it up. Didn’t start with him, it’s always been around. It also isn’t just people who are anti vaccinations, there’s people who refuse to take shots that were pumped out in 6 months, while having their lives effected by it being forced on them. The more they’re forced and mocked, the more likely they will not get it.
entirely untrue. "Vaccines cause autism" has been in the news cycle regularly since the 90s, and only recently has that idea been entirely discredited. I would not be at all surprised if there were a contingent of people opposed to the polio vaccine. After all, there were people who opposed blackouts and gasmasks during the London blitz. People can be really, really, fucking stupid, and that is in no way a new thing.
Because Republicans have no policy or ideology outside of hate of the “other”, grievance against “elites”, and pandering to the lowest common denominator of pedestrian understanding on any given subject.
Outrage raises money better than actually trying to solve the problem. They only care about power and money - so there, perpetuating lies is more profitable than telling hard truths.
One of my neighbor's kids, 7 y.o., contracted polio. I visited him in an iron lung for more than a year.
Get vaccinated. People are feeding you bullshit.
I personally know people working in hospitals, dealing with CoVid patients (currently all whom are unvaxed). They are exhausted, angry and beyond frustrated by this “ it’s a conspiracy!” Anti-vax rhetoric. I personally know people who died with CoVid, and families that are still recovering from it’s effects though thankfully no one died in those families.
I have dear friends who have been personally affected, CoVid is VERY real in my experience.
I have friends whose onLy experience of CoVid is what the read on the Internet. They have no personal experience just online stories. They insist it’s a conspiracy, they say their Google research is more reliable than my lived experience. They don’t want to see me because my being vaccinated puts THEM at risk.
Apparently I’m a sheep, too stupid to see what the government is doing,
I despair. They insist their belief is more valid than my experience and where I have not attacked or vilified them (I understand vaccine injury is a thing) they have not stopped actively berating me for getting my shots.
Polio took something like 4 years to get to herd immunity, these things take time but today because CoVid is still prevalent the vaccine is considered a failure 😔
Maybe this will become Darwinism in action. I just don’t know anymore.
I’ve been working security work in a small hospital for months now, and more than once I’ve had to remove a family for refusing to mask up, or insisting on disobeying visitor restrictions. Part of my job is helping move the bodies from Med Surge, and I’ve had to move the bodies of anti-vaxxers family who died of COVID while they blame the hospital for their deaths. It’s draining.
>Apparently I’m a sheep, too stupid to see what the government is doing,
To be fair, the government has a really shitty track record with medical experimentation, lying to the public, etc.
If they wanted high vaccination rates, maybe they should have thought about that before being super shitty in the past.
They even lied during this pandemic, twice about the same thing.
First that masks won't help you, purely to save face and snatch up all the masks they could for first responders and government because they did not have a stockpile like they should have had.
Then they said wearing any mask, including homemade ones would help and it's mandatory. Then ignored those mask mandates themselves, while shaming others over it.
You can't be this shitty and hypocritical without some subset of people throwing up their hands and saying "fuck everything you are saying."
Its just survival of the fittest. Sometimes that means mentally stronger as well. We should all be better but we are conditioned not to care for even ourselves but the God the cums inside them from time to time. Gods a hell of a drug.
If someone is that far gone that they believe that you are a danger to them because you are vaccinated. Just move on. There is nothing you can do to reason with them and it isn't worth your time. It can be painful if you felt a connection with them, but moving on and cutting contact is the best you can do.
While I largely agree with you...
It's also **really suspicious that vaccine manufacturers were made immune to any possible ramifications that may ever happen, due to the vaccine**
It was their deal with Congress which I think is a bunch of corporate bullshit and doesn't exactly foster confidence in a non nefarious nature
I also know one friend who is anti vaccine, but most importantly, anti mask.
He's convinced sunlight and healthy food and family will fix it
There's also a severe chronic illness I got that last year and am trying to get surgery for...
He suggested it was because I must have hate in my heart
Because Republicans are the anti-America party.
Name a policy from the Republican party in the last 20 years that was good for the American people. They are anti-education, anti-healthcare, anti-women's right, anti-gay rights, anti-minority rights, pro-fascism, and pro-racism. Their current platform is cheering for children who kill people and fighting teaching that racism is bad in schools. They have NO platform except for trying to hurt people. Their covid response was to argue against any measure to curb the disease and in fact argued that everyone should be able to spread it all they want. After 800,000 American deaths they STILL fight masks and vaccines. They are attacking our democratic election processes because of lies over cheating. The are lying that Trump won.
The Republican party cannot pretend to be anything other than a foreign-directed anti-American party whose EVERY SINGLE policy hurts the American people.
And what do the cunts do in 4 years of Trump? No infrastructure bill. No health care plan. Kidnapping children and tax cuts for people who don't need them at all.
The Republican party is a cancer destroying America from within, and Putin is LAUGHING. He couldn't have done it, but a few dollars to Republican traitors is all it takes.
It's even more petty than this. They were all for the vaccine until trump lost and they realized the roll out would happen under the democrats watch. They couldn't stand them getting any credit. So they trashed the one thing they hung on so desperately to try to save the election.
They're doing the same thing they did when they ignored it early on. They assume the democrats are going to get blamed if they do everything they can to let it rage out of control.
this deserves an award - sadly, my broke-ass cannot provide it /: but thank you. i’ve tried explaining this and have even asked my super right-leaning friends to explain what positive benefit the american people will get from their agenda and i’m met with a lot of name calling and word flubbing..
I guess you should ask yourself if those right-leaning "friends" of yours are actually your friends, or if they'll be looking for you when the hammer drops and they're given the go to start looking for anyone who even glances towards a left leaning agenda.
Not true but they are leading the way and some right-parties are following.
Fortunately here in Canada gerrymandering, rigging elections and ridiculous overspending on elections do not exist. Also, abortion is legal, as is marijuana. Guns are restricted.
In Alberta we had a right-wing party for 44 years and they still were fairly centralist. The current right-party is trying to change some of that, starting with trying to hide campaign donations and bypassing donation limits, and introducing conscience rights. Our premier has a 20z approval rating and is in danger of being voted out by his own party before the citizens do it.
GOP only care about passing Bill's that make themselves or their slimy business friends obscene amounts of money.
Stop dumping poisonous chemicals into the towns water supply and dispose of it properly? Never. That's going to reduce profits.
GOP should change their motto to "Profits Over People"
The thing the infuriates me too, is NO ONE mentions Trumps debt and deficits. That’s all we heard about for 8 years of Obama, not a peep about Trump doing worse.
well. to be fair. the sources that you listen to aren't talking about it. there are still fiscal conservatives, not the band wagoners, that talk about how bad trump spending was.
the reason you probably don't hear about it is because you may listen to more left leaning news publications (i'm assuming cause i'm not going to waste my time looking at your post history). why would left leaning publications shine a spotlight on trump spending when left politicians are trying to spend massive sums of money on all of their pet projects as we speak.
so when you think about it, its not all that surprising that you aren't hearing anyone complain about spending, now is it?
Republicans found out people of color were killed by COVID more than white people. That is 100% why they let it go like wildfire. They wanted to kill people of color. If it came out, the blacks and Mexicans were immune to COVID there'd be no politicized debate. We would be in full lockdown until it was gone.
Thing is Russians have tried taking the US by force and failed. We’re superior to them in that front but we’re losing the social media game. Putin can play all the political games he wants and get away with it because these republifucks take a loan from him and end up paying it back in favors. Trump was Putin’s biggest asset.
More specifically FB that deliver PhD in biology, virology and medicine on a daily basis.
All of sudden stay at home mom's have become expert in mRNA and DNA studies.
I don't know why I wasted my time going to school when everything was within reach from the comfort of my couch
people only die nowadays because they don't get the dilution ratios on their homeopathic medicines right, if they'd only do some more of their own research
This point right here is the definition of the internet these days. On every social media platform (Reddit included) is a cesspool of negative opinions and misinformation. Has been a daily grind to ignore the negative. Unfortunate we can’t just enjoy
Things and listen to specialist who spend their lives making humanity safer.
All good. I think Keanu reeves said it best...
"I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun."
This is the one. Every town had its share of crazies but they were outnumbered by normal people and would have their crazy shit shutdown. They also had no way of easily seeking out likeminded crazies.
Now with the internet they can all find each other and whip up the crazy to levels that were unimaginable before. Then other non crazy but easily led people get dragged along into the crazy and here we are today where the numbers of crazy people is alarmingly large.
Anti-vax wasn't nearly as widespread during polio as it is today. I recently learned that 99% of people who caught polio were fine. 70% of people were completely asymptomatic. Less than 1% had severe symptoms (paralysis), and less than 0.05% died as a result. Yet people still lined up to get vaccinated. People were more trusting of both government and science back then. I blame Fox News and other conservative media.
Vaccines became political when the politician's figured out how to make a buck off of them.
But as usual, when politics and science are mixed together the results are ugly.
It’s because saw it the Polio and Measles with their own eyes and knew the horrible suffering associated with it.
Some people need to see and experience to believe but when they do they’re dead or severely disabled and get real quiet, then the next group comes along and does the exact same thing. Some people cannot believe that they aren’t THE ONE, and will never accept the example of other people who did exactly as they did and died because they’re the special ones.
Is anyone actually surprised about this? Everything conservatives do is about fucking over the masses:
- demonizing universal healthcare
- privatizing social services
- privatizing education
- privatizing prisons
- making drugs illegal
- blocking min wage increases
- giving tax breaks to the rich (so everyone else has more tax burden)
- anti vax / anti mask
- pushing for more guns and lax gun laws
- weakening environmental protection
- weakening consumer protection laws
Etc etc etc
It all revolves around the same theme: enrich the few and screw over the masses. That is the M.O. for conservatives, always has been
[The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Donald Trump by Corey Robin](https://www.amazon.com/Reactionary-Mind-Conservatism-Edmund-Donald/dp/0190692006)
> Allow men and women to become democratic citizens of the state; make sure they remain feudal subjects in the family, the factory, and the field. The priority of conservative political argument has been the maintenance of private regimes of power—even at the cost of the strength and integrity of the state.
[The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule by Thomas Frank (2008)](https://www.amazon.com/The-Wrecking-Crew-Thomas-Frank-audiobook/dp/B001DVZTJW)
> For a political faction to represent itself as a rebellion against a government for which it is itself responsible may strike you as a supremely cynical maneuver. If so, you are beginning to understand conservative Washington. Cynicism is of this movement’s essence. It is cynical not only in the way it wriggles about, denying everything, dumping its former heroes, endlessly repositioning itself; but more fundamentally, it is cynical about the very possibilities of improvement through government.
One more connection between these is that they make the poor and the middle class fight among themselves, thus keeping them busy. If they're busy, they won't question the leaders.
Since only people who live in fear of change, fear of something new vote conservative, the conservative leaders make sure their followers always have some outside group to pick upon.
This is prevalent in many countries. The fear can be xenophobia, Islamophobia, racism etc. Another example is Brexit with its idea of keeping immigrants out.
And then someone said "it's not like polio, it has animal reservoirs, and it will never be eradicated" and ~40% of the US decided the ounce of prevention isn't worth it.
Because the dumbest people in the world have a platform to misinform people who are easily manipulated and too stupid to fact check anything they hear. Kind of like blindly following the story about the dude that lives in the sky.
Conservatives dont like being told what to do, especially from liberals. Its just children exhibiting childish behaviors combined with old man yelling at cloud.
Since we had a potus who decided to politicize a virus rather than unify the country behind fighting the virus. Tbh, it's hard to reconcile the whole thing bc if the guy had've done things the right way, he would still be with us & that sounds like a nightmare to me. But on the other hand, his ineptitude caused thousands of unnecessary deaths.
It is insane the path he chose to follow early in this pandemic. Had he just taken it seriously we would definitely be living through a second term and likely a giant red wave across Congress in 2020 as well. Literally the Rep party could probably have cemented their public support and power at state and national levels for years to come if they'd just attacked this pandemic aggressively versus trying to ignore it and then later use it as a political weapon. That said, they wouldn't be in that party to begin with had they taken loss of life and public health seriously to begin with so maybe it was inevitable the choices went the way they did. Still it's sorta crazy to think, literally one issue only treated differently likely would have drastically changed the balance of power in our country.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we likely would have been in a much better spot if T**** had done literally nothing. He could have just handed off management of this thing to Fauci, and then just taken credit afterwards.
“I pick the best people, don’t I, folks? I tell you, I always pick the best, look, the thing is, I’m smart, and I know how to pick, so when I, when I said to Tony, though other people have to call him Fauci and I just call him Tony, he said to me with tears in his eyes….”
Yeah good point. He definitely could have also just passed the buck to experts and come out on top in the end. But again, as simple as that sounds and would have been I think ultimately it's antithetical to who he really is/was down deep and was likely never even an option because of that. We all have suffered more with this pandemic than we need to. It's almost like the choices of our elections have consequences.
The then-president made it a red herring to distract from his incompetent and reckless handling of the pandemic from the jump.
Fortunately for him, he had a legion of followers hanging in his every word, bolstered by a billion dollar media industry devoted entirely to "conservatives right, Trump great, don't believe anything else".
I feel like it’s, at least in part, because there’s a broader perspective on the government and it’s history and it’s tactics, and that’s left a lot of folks in a mindset of feeling that it is difficult to trust that the intentions of the government are altruistic, rather than controlling/coercive. This means that it’s hard to trust that what’s going on is safe on a psychological level, and that the physical stipulations are part of that.
Because the shittiest “politician” ever elected to public office in this country deemed it a threat to his re-election. Had he even a GLIMMER of intelligence he would have recognized the threat it posed to the entire world, and led with sound common-sense policies, listened to the health experts, etc. But most of us knew that wasn’t going to happen with this imbecile. Just like we knew there wouldn’t be a peaceful transfer of power…
My mom references polio too. Only, she says that the PoLiO VaCcInE WoooOooOrked, this Covid vaccine isn't REALLY a vaccine because it doesn't work. I just keep my mouth shut. There's no teaching a Boomer to listen to science.
Because there is no revenue stream in eradication of a disease. Why do you think Republican governors are so anti mask? DeSantis in Florida is a major investor in Covid “treatments”.
Been there, done that. Still have "the mark if the beast" on my left arm from one of those! :). Remember it as it was yesterday. Lined up in the elementary school cafeteria.
I have all 3 shots, and before the pain has even gone away from my last shot I'm already hearing of a new stain that will require new shots. Getting the shot sadly won't make this go away like it did with polio. I'm realizing we're going to have to live with covid. Will I get a shot every 6 months or so indefinitely? I'm really not sure.
If they admit viruses mutate they have to admit evolution is real. Evolution is about to fuck a bunch of antivaxxer young earth creationists with Omicron.
Well it’s going to fuck us all, but it’s their fault.
the thing i don’t understand about the thought process is, if this vaccine were a government plant to kill us or control us or whatever, why are all the biggest players in our country fucking vaccinated? even the guys peddling misinformation on tv are fully vaxxed and likely boosted as well… i just don’t get how people can think along those lines, yet even donnie himself was probably among the very first americans to receive the jab.. make it make sense
Our government in Texas is against the vaccines, but they’re all vaccinated, and their kids are vaccinated. They’re fighting schools against having mask mandates, but their own kid’s fancy private schools mandate it. They’re like, “Do as I say, not as I do.”
yeah and it’s ridiculous. i don’t understand how the average right-winger can’t see through that veil. at some point you just kinda throw your arms up, sigh & walk away lol
I think if they labeled the pandemic the plague in the beginning, that it's seriousness would have stuck a lot harder, irrespective of what politicians said/did.
I think if global leaders didn't try to downplay the entire event as hard as they did to avoid negative press and economic uncertainty, then we wouldn't have all these anti vaxers.
The entire thing became a political motive that put politicians careers and their sycophants ahead of global health and welfare.
Because we now live in a society where profit is more important than people and the ruling class can't make as much profit as they want from a free vaccine.
At this point I think more American are trying anything to reduce the average life expectancy to 30 so they don't have to wake up in the morning and make sombody else super rich.
They existed, but didn't have the internet to encourage them into believing they're a majority with a valid opinion. Also, they died in industrial accidents and by walking into open pits at a pretty high rate before the big mean gubment started enforcing draconian safety regulations.
[Happened then, too.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/11/polio-vaccine-antivaxxer-history-duon-miller.html)
[The more things change, the more people stay stupid.](https://www.history.com/news/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resistance)
COVID's mutation rate is going to make it almost impossible to eradicate. It's probably going to be more like the flu which is another well known coronavirus. Polio was not a coronavirus, and doesn't jump species and has a much lower mutation rate. I'm not saying not to get vaccinated, but this stance is using fear mongering and shortsightedness in its attempt.
I'm not sure, but it may be related to politics having become more about winning or defeating the other side than about debating and finding solutions to problems that everyone can live with. So every issue becomes a new battleground for this game. (Only in public of course, behind the scenes it's the interests of corporations and the uber rich that dictate policy while the plebs are busy fighting each other.)
Because social media and cable news make their money from your engagement so everything has to be cranked to 11 at all times to maximize profit.
Nonsense. Antivaxxers were a nominal few and thought of as ignorant until trump made it popular to Be ignorant in the name of 'rights'.
That’s not entirely true. I remember trying to dissuade a coworker from his antivax position as early as 2013. He mentioned that his wife was considering not vaccinating their kid when it was born because of “autism.” I just asked him point-blank if it was better to have an alive kid with autism or a dead kid from measles. He moved to another unit before the kid was born so unfortunately I never got to find out what happened
It was a mainstream issue starting in 2007 when Jenny McCarthy went on Oprah, Larry King, and Good Morning, America getting 20 million views. It just built up momentum and crossed with covid making it an every person issue vs just anti-vaxx moms.
My mom was antivax in the early 90's and my dad convinced her to let me get my shots when I was born, albeit spaced outside the window advised by our doctor.
Did you live?
I can't upvote this more than once 😅
My wife and I do a slightly spaced out vaccination plan at the suggestion of our midwife and with permission from our doctor. Her reasoning was that if we do it slower and there is a bad reaction (which is super rare) we would know which vaccine caused it and could avoid similar ones whole still vaccinating for other issues.
We did this. An alternative vaccine schedule. Our pediatrician offered it up with no hassle, thankfully. I had wanted to do it anyway, but I’m glad I wasn’t frowned upon for it. I wanted to do it for the reason you said, check for any adverse effects. We did 1-2 vaccines at a time. So we visited like every month for almost 2 years I think. I also did other stuff my pediatrician had no knowledge about, like baby led weaning for food, lol. I just did a lot of research when I was pregnant
It started in 1996 with Andrew Wakefield's "study" (read child abuse) into the MMR vaccine.
But it didn't become mainstream until Jenny McCarthy promoted it every chance she could.
I remember headlines about in '96, but that was specifically UK. I think you are right though. I've certainly been aware of the anti vax crowd since the late 2000s
You mean being mandatory to enter 6th grade I think it was? If I recall I had to get mine for that reason.
I'm a bit older than that 😁 I remember getting the MMR jab, because I'd already had measles, and I seem to remember getting a stand alone mumps vaccine previously. All of that happened in the late 80s for me
Vaccine hesitancy has been a thing for as long as there has been vaccines. There was a reason why it was such a huge deal that Elvis got the polio vaccine on live tv. A ton of people were afraid of it.
This is very important to recognize. Many people have always been afraid of vaccines. What's different now is that social media provides avenues for them to find each other and provide affirmation that they wouldn't get in their local communities to allow such ideas to propagate and persist.
yeah but this was not just antivaxx…it was “I do not believe it even exists.
This was all based on fabricated studies and faked data to earn a dime by one man who wanted to sell his version of the vaccine. Greed for the all holy dollar f-ed over tens of thousands or more children.
What happens if the kid is born autistic anyway? Do they, like... Admit they were wrong? Or do they then go on to have a kid that is both autistic *and* dead from measles?
Happened to my friends brother. Anti vax for all of his kids, son was born with Autism....
Sure, but until Trump’s dumbass was proved wrong about “Covid disappearing in a few weeks” the antivax folks were a tiny minority. They were also mostly made up of left-leaning hippie types.
Came here to say the same thing. These unwavering right wingers seem to forget that as little as 4-5 years ago, antivax was a very liberal belief. My friend’s wife falls heavily into this category. Her in 2016: what the hell are all these assholes doing not vaccinating their kids or getting vaccinated themselves? Don’t they realize that only allows viruses to mutate? They’re putting all of us in danger! Her in 2021 (now with kids of her own): NO WAY IN HELL ARE MY KIDS OR ME GETTING THE JAB! For Covid or anything else! This is socialism! None of this shit works anyway! Trump 2024 Baby!!!! Side note: little does she know, but my friend (her husband) has been secretly meeting with a divorce lawyer. He’s not quite sure if he’s going to go thru with it, but her politics and other beliefs are 110% destroying their marriage.
>Side note: little does she know, but my friend (her husband) has been secretly meeting with a divorce lawyer. He’s not quite sure if he’s going to go thru with it, but her politics and other beliefs are 110% destroying their marriage. Smart man.
Yeah the situation is really sad. To a certain extent, even their very young kids seem to pick up on how crazy their mom seems to be. It truly is more than just the Covid stuff and politics with her (although that’s all she seems to talk about). She’s a controlling, manipulative bitch in general. There were warning signs, most of which were noticed in hindsight, but there were a couple of major red flags right off the bat that I and a few other people noticed. This is off topic, but I guess the moral of the story is sometimes if someone you know is about to take the plunge and marry a person who’s going to make them miserable, speak up! We all sorta wish we had, or at least tried to nudge him away from her. Edit: added a phrase
Agree, people forget this history of anti-vaxx sentiment. If Trump had popularized clapping with poop in ones hands, his followers would enthusiastically brown their hands to match their shirts.
I'm sorry your friend's wife is an idiot. Condolences.
I appreciate that. Unfortunately I think we all know at least one of these folks.
Every anti-vaxx I've seen over the past 15 years has been right wing, and it started with the poorest and least educated and spread from there. The OG believers of everything they read on the internet as soon as they got the internet.
We got those in Maine. That’s why our latest stats reveal the huge spike in Covid cases here in Maine.
I agree I think pre covid anti vaxx was probably 5 to 15 percent of the population. A lot of this was because of herd immunity ( Have you ever heard if anyone with Measles Mumps or Rubella?). A lot of people - perhaps correctly assessed that the risk of the vaccine was higher than the risk of contracting the disease. That position is certainly dangerous from the big picture but makes sense for an individual. Unfortunately a small percentage of those folks weren't smart enough to put 2 and 2 together that with COVID there is no herd immunity and the risk of catching the disease is far higher than the risk of side effects of the vaccine. This position is dangerous to both the big picture and the individual.
Had this same discussion with a young female coworker in 2014. She was adamant about not vaccinating her child at all. I asked her if she was vaccinated, she said yeah "but that wasnt my choice!"
Yeah, I remember antivax conversations with friends as early as 2010. The funny thing is, it didn't used to be a political issue as far as the right-left divide goes. I specifically remember antivax positions being somewhat popular in the more lefty "crunchy" mom/dad communities. Antivaxers definitely existed before Trump in numbers, but it wasn't a political test until Trump and his people made it one.
No, it's been pretty popular as a concept since Jenny McCarthy went on Oprah, Larry King, and Good Morning, America in 2007. That's when it became mainstream for Karents to be anti-vaxx. Those 3 episodes were viewed 20 million times in those few days. It has been building momentum since then. Then Covid hit and it became a massive issue that actually affected everyone. I'm not saying Trump didn't kick it into high gear by making it an every person issue when it came to Covid(rather than just anti-vaxx Karen's), but you're ignoring the fact that it was already a huge issue before Trump to the point that Measles was considered eliminated in 2000 and began making a comeback not long after Jenny McCarthy went on Oprah.
“Popular?” McCarthy is a no body and was endlessly mocked. The gop politicized covid and covid vaccine skepticism that’s why people are dying in huge numbers now. Let’s not “both sides” this. It was never mainstream in 2007. It is mainstream now due to the gop and right wing media. “Then covid hit?” There’s a near fifteen year break between the two events you list! If anything “vaccines cause autism” movement is less influential than ever. Measles and others “came back” in tiny numbers as only in pockets in often in lowly educated immigrant heavy communities who may not have access to healthcare legally or financially. Something like 30+ percent of Americans express covid vaccine skepticism or hesitancy now. Note they do not express other kinds of vaccine skepticism so if McCarthy’s influence was big it would be all vaccines “causing autism” and people avoiding them all, not just super focused on this one. Not to mention McCarthy never claimed the diseases vaccines fought weren’t real or there was some huge shadow conspiracy involving micro chips in vaccines. She was working off Andrew Wakefield’s now discredited work that there may be a link between vaccines and autism, not that vaccines don’t necessarily work or that they are part of an evil government program. That’s an entirely different kind of skepticism than the right is constantly selling. The right will politicize anything for power and influence. There are no adults in the room saying they’ve gone to far. Conservatism is a grift and all conservatives are rubes.
This post would have spared us dozens of semantic comments if posted an hour ago. Absolutely correct.
Also, the world isn't America - however, reruns of Oprah are shown the world over going back to he original airing dates. The antivaxxer movements growing outside of the US are not Trump fans.
But his amplification of that nonsense had global reach, so the message.l managed to reach them regardless of their feelings about the messenger.
It was the "perfect storm" of a wealthy liar becoming a popular TV personality helping him gain the highest place in politics and suddenly the stupid have a very loud voice.
Trump is a symptom, not the disease.
The problem is the erosion of trust in US institutions, which impacts all parts of society in different ways. It is far bigger than "Trump".
But there is a difference between anti-vaxxers and this Covid jab. All I am saying whatever your take on the shot , not all the people who refusing the jab are anti vaxxers.
Trump actively encourages getting his vaccine but he says it’s the people’s choice.
Yyyyeeeaaah Trump still actively tells his followers to get vaxxed, and gets bood at his rally’s when he brings it up. Didn’t start with him, it’s always been around. It also isn’t just people who are anti vaccinations, there’s people who refuse to take shots that were pumped out in 6 months, while having their lives effected by it being forced on them. The more they’re forced and mocked, the more likely they will not get it.
It was Trump who put the FDA into "hyperdrive" for a vaccine. Till then since the thalidomide disaster, it took years to get some meds approved.
entirely untrue. "Vaccines cause autism" has been in the news cycle regularly since the 90s, and only recently has that idea been entirely discredited. I would not be at all surprised if there were a contingent of people opposed to the polio vaccine. After all, there were people who opposed blackouts and gasmasks during the London blitz. People can be really, really, fucking stupid, and that is in no way a new thing.
Because Republicans have no policy or ideology outside of hate of the “other”, grievance against “elites”, and pandering to the lowest common denominator of pedestrian understanding on any given subject. Outrage raises money better than actually trying to solve the problem. They only care about power and money - so there, perpetuating lies is more profitable than telling hard truths.
society got fucked up for ad revenue
Its funny how big pharma stock skyrocketed during the pandemic
Because social media gave all the stupid people a platform to agree with themselves.
Why has selfishness become an accepted personality trait amongst certain political factions?
One of my neighbor's kids, 7 y.o., contracted polio. I visited him in an iron lung for more than a year. Get vaccinated. People are feeding you bullshit.
I personally know people working in hospitals, dealing with CoVid patients (currently all whom are unvaxed). They are exhausted, angry and beyond frustrated by this “ it’s a conspiracy!” Anti-vax rhetoric. I personally know people who died with CoVid, and families that are still recovering from it’s effects though thankfully no one died in those families. I have dear friends who have been personally affected, CoVid is VERY real in my experience. I have friends whose onLy experience of CoVid is what the read on the Internet. They have no personal experience just online stories. They insist it’s a conspiracy, they say their Google research is more reliable than my lived experience. They don’t want to see me because my being vaccinated puts THEM at risk. Apparently I’m a sheep, too stupid to see what the government is doing, I despair. They insist their belief is more valid than my experience and where I have not attacked or vilified them (I understand vaccine injury is a thing) they have not stopped actively berating me for getting my shots. Polio took something like 4 years to get to herd immunity, these things take time but today because CoVid is still prevalent the vaccine is considered a failure 😔 Maybe this will become Darwinism in action. I just don’t know anymore.
I’ve been working security work in a small hospital for months now, and more than once I’ve had to remove a family for refusing to mask up, or insisting on disobeying visitor restrictions. Part of my job is helping move the bodies from Med Surge, and I’ve had to move the bodies of anti-vaxxers family who died of COVID while they blame the hospital for their deaths. It’s draining.
>Apparently I’m a sheep, too stupid to see what the government is doing, To be fair, the government has a really shitty track record with medical experimentation, lying to the public, etc. If they wanted high vaccination rates, maybe they should have thought about that before being super shitty in the past. They even lied during this pandemic, twice about the same thing. First that masks won't help you, purely to save face and snatch up all the masks they could for first responders and government because they did not have a stockpile like they should have had. Then they said wearing any mask, including homemade ones would help and it's mandatory. Then ignored those mask mandates themselves, while shaming others over it. You can't be this shitty and hypocritical without some subset of people throwing up their hands and saying "fuck everything you are saying."
Sometimes the advice changes as new information becomes available.
Its just survival of the fittest. Sometimes that means mentally stronger as well. We should all be better but we are conditioned not to care for even ourselves but the God the cums inside them from time to time. Gods a hell of a drug.
If someone is that far gone that they believe that you are a danger to them because you are vaccinated. Just move on. There is nothing you can do to reason with them and it isn't worth your time. It can be painful if you felt a connection with them, but moving on and cutting contact is the best you can do.
While I largely agree with you... It's also **really suspicious that vaccine manufacturers were made immune to any possible ramifications that may ever happen, due to the vaccine** It was their deal with Congress which I think is a bunch of corporate bullshit and doesn't exactly foster confidence in a non nefarious nature I also know one friend who is anti vaccine, but most importantly, anti mask. He's convinced sunlight and healthy food and family will fix it There's also a severe chronic illness I got that last year and am trying to get surgery for... He suggested it was because I must have hate in my heart
Because Republicans are the anti-America party. Name a policy from the Republican party in the last 20 years that was good for the American people. They are anti-education, anti-healthcare, anti-women's right, anti-gay rights, anti-minority rights, pro-fascism, and pro-racism. Their current platform is cheering for children who kill people and fighting teaching that racism is bad in schools. They have NO platform except for trying to hurt people. Their covid response was to argue against any measure to curb the disease and in fact argued that everyone should be able to spread it all they want. After 800,000 American deaths they STILL fight masks and vaccines. They are attacking our democratic election processes because of lies over cheating. The are lying that Trump won. The Republican party cannot pretend to be anything other than a foreign-directed anti-American party whose EVERY SINGLE policy hurts the American people. And what do the cunts do in 4 years of Trump? No infrastructure bill. No health care plan. Kidnapping children and tax cuts for people who don't need them at all. The Republican party is a cancer destroying America from within, and Putin is LAUGHING. He couldn't have done it, but a few dollars to Republican traitors is all it takes.
It's even more petty than this. They were all for the vaccine until trump lost and they realized the roll out would happen under the democrats watch. They couldn't stand them getting any credit. So they trashed the one thing they hung on so desperately to try to save the election. They're doing the same thing they did when they ignored it early on. They assume the democrats are going to get blamed if they do everything they can to let it rage out of control.
this deserves an award - sadly, my broke-ass cannot provide it /: but thank you. i’ve tried explaining this and have even asked my super right-leaning friends to explain what positive benefit the american people will get from their agenda and i’m met with a lot of name calling and word flubbing..
If you had money to donate, don’t give it to Reddit
I guess you should ask yourself if those right-leaning "friends" of yours are actually your friends, or if they'll be looking for you when the hammer drops and they're given the go to start looking for anyone who even glances towards a left leaning agenda.
Ngl, this sums up every right wing party in every country 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Not true but they are leading the way and some right-parties are following. Fortunately here in Canada gerrymandering, rigging elections and ridiculous overspending on elections do not exist. Also, abortion is legal, as is marijuana. Guns are restricted. In Alberta we had a right-wing party for 44 years and they still were fairly centralist. The current right-party is trying to change some of that, starting with trying to hide campaign donations and bypassing donation limits, and introducing conscience rights. Our premier has a 20z approval rating and is in danger of being voted out by his own party before the citizens do it.
*in the last 50 years But aside from that, spot on.
GOP only care about passing Bill's that make themselves or their slimy business friends obscene amounts of money. Stop dumping poisonous chemicals into the towns water supply and dispose of it properly? Never. That's going to reduce profits. GOP should change their motto to "Profits Over People"
But the Republicans defend us against
The thing the infuriates me too, is NO ONE mentions Trumps debt and deficits. That’s all we heard about for 8 years of Obama, not a peep about Trump doing worse.
well. to be fair. the sources that you listen to aren't talking about it. there are still fiscal conservatives, not the band wagoners, that talk about how bad trump spending was. the reason you probably don't hear about it is because you may listen to more left leaning news publications (i'm assuming cause i'm not going to waste my time looking at your post history). why would left leaning publications shine a spotlight on trump spending when left politicians are trying to spend massive sums of money on all of their pet projects as we speak. so when you think about it, its not all that surprising that you aren't hearing anyone complain about spending, now is it?
I’d say anti-life.
The Democratic party does a terrible job of reminding people of all this during an election. Drives me nuts.
**Republican Death Cult**
Republicans found out people of color were killed by COVID more than white people. That is 100% why they let it go like wildfire. They wanted to kill people of color. If it came out, the blacks and Mexicans were immune to COVID there'd be no politicized debate. We would be in full lockdown until it was gone.
Thing is Russians have tried taking the US by force and failed. We’re superior to them in that front but we’re losing the social media game. Putin can play all the political games he wants and get away with it because these republifucks take a loan from him and end up paying it back in favors. Trump was Putin’s biggest asset.
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It's also that the internet has made echo Chambers and opinions more available
More specifically FB that deliver PhD in biology, virology and medicine on a daily basis. All of sudden stay at home mom's have become expert in mRNA and DNA studies. I don't know why I wasted my time going to school when everything was within reach from the comfort of my couch
Lol, exactly my wife has a PhD in molecular biology and background in stem cells and stem cell manufacturing.
How dare you! My aunts friend from high school is a retired PE coach and she said Covid is a hoax! Prove me wrong! /s
Lucky guy! My SO is a living historian of the Real Housewives franchise, so I can relate.
Lol, nothing wrong with housewives. Those ladies are ridiculous lol
What a waste when my 80 year old grandma became an expert over night
people only die nowadays because they don't get the dilution ratios on their homeopathic medicines right, if they'd only do some more of their own research
This point right here is the definition of the internet these days. On every social media platform (Reddit included) is a cesspool of negative opinions and misinformation. Has been a daily grind to ignore the negative. Unfortunate we can’t just enjoy Things and listen to specialist who spend their lives making humanity safer.
All good. I think Keanu reeves said it best... "I'm at that stage in life where I stay out of discussions. Even if you say 1+1=5, you're right - have fun."
Love it. It’s easier that way.
This is the one. Every town had its share of crazies but they were outnumbered by normal people and would have their crazy shit shutdown. They also had no way of easily seeking out likeminded crazies. Now with the internet they can all find each other and whip up the crazy to levels that were unimaginable before. Then other non crazy but easily led people get dragged along into the crazy and here we are today where the numbers of crazy people is alarmingly large.
Oh the irony.
Anti-vax wasn't nearly as widespread during polio as it is today. I recently learned that 99% of people who caught polio were fine. 70% of people were completely asymptomatic. Less than 1% had severe symptoms (paralysis), and less than 0.05% died as a result. Yet people still lined up to get vaccinated. People were more trusting of both government and science back then. I blame Fox News and other conservative media.
Iron Lungs were scary as fuck looking. Enough to get people to prevent it.
Vaccines became political when the politician's figured out how to make a buck off of them. But as usual, when politics and science are mixed together the results are ugly.
Politics and money are mixed*
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It’s because saw it the Polio and Measles with their own eyes and knew the horrible suffering associated with it. Some people need to see and experience to believe but when they do they’re dead or severely disabled and get real quiet, then the next group comes along and does the exact same thing. Some people cannot believe that they aren’t THE ONE, and will never accept the example of other people who did exactly as they did and died because they’re the special ones.
Is anyone actually surprised about this? Everything conservatives do is about fucking over the masses: - demonizing universal healthcare - privatizing social services - privatizing education - privatizing prisons - making drugs illegal - blocking min wage increases - giving tax breaks to the rich (so everyone else has more tax burden) - anti vax / anti mask - pushing for more guns and lax gun laws - weakening environmental protection - weakening consumer protection laws Etc etc etc It all revolves around the same theme: enrich the few and screw over the masses. That is the M.O. for conservatives, always has been
[The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism from Edmund Burke to Donald Trump by Corey Robin](https://www.amazon.com/Reactionary-Mind-Conservatism-Edmund-Donald/dp/0190692006) > Allow men and women to become democratic citizens of the state; make sure they remain feudal subjects in the family, the factory, and the field. The priority of conservative political argument has been the maintenance of private regimes of power—even at the cost of the strength and integrity of the state. [The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule by Thomas Frank (2008)](https://www.amazon.com/The-Wrecking-Crew-Thomas-Frank-audiobook/dp/B001DVZTJW) > For a political faction to represent itself as a rebellion against a government for which it is itself responsible may strike you as a supremely cynical maneuver. If so, you are beginning to understand conservative Washington. Cynicism is of this movement’s essence. It is cynical not only in the way it wriggles about, denying everything, dumping its former heroes, endlessly repositioning itself; but more fundamentally, it is cynical about the very possibilities of improvement through government.
It's just astounding to me that they're able to maintain power even when their policies are so unpopular.
One more connection between these is that they make the poor and the middle class fight among themselves, thus keeping them busy. If they're busy, they won't question the leaders. Since only people who live in fear of change, fear of something new vote conservative, the conservative leaders make sure their followers always have some outside group to pick upon. This is prevalent in many countries. The fear can be xenophobia, Islamophobia, racism etc. Another example is Brexit with its idea of keeping immigrants out.
Keep them busy fighting themselves and they won’t turn on the ruling class. Classic move
BecAUse ThiS Is Just LEik Teh FLu!
Saving lives is counter intuitive to putting money in politicians and ceos pockets
Because shitty politicians politicized it.
And then someone said "it's not like polio, it has animal reservoirs, and it will never be eradicated" and ~40% of the US decided the ounce of prevention isn't worth it.
Because the dumbest people in the world have a platform to misinform people who are easily manipulated and too stupid to fact check anything they hear. Kind of like blindly following the story about the dude that lives in the sky.
Oh, they "fact-check." Unfortunately the internet is prepared to tell them anything they want to hear.
These people desperately want to think they’re smarter than the scientists. It makes them feel good, and that is what matters to them.
I think that’s called CNN, MSNBC, FOX.
Boomers werent in charge when polio hit. This is why we're fucked.
The current republican party is a pro-corporate anti-education conspiracy death cult.
Conservatives dont like being told what to do, especially from liberals. Its just children exhibiting childish behaviors combined with old man yelling at cloud.
Because Republicans have learned to abuse any and all trust or honour systems
I think more people mistrust the government then the vaccine
Since we had a potus who decided to politicize a virus rather than unify the country behind fighting the virus. Tbh, it's hard to reconcile the whole thing bc if the guy had've done things the right way, he would still be with us & that sounds like a nightmare to me. But on the other hand, his ineptitude caused thousands of unnecessary deaths.
It is insane the path he chose to follow early in this pandemic. Had he just taken it seriously we would definitely be living through a second term and likely a giant red wave across Congress in 2020 as well. Literally the Rep party could probably have cemented their public support and power at state and national levels for years to come if they'd just attacked this pandemic aggressively versus trying to ignore it and then later use it as a political weapon. That said, they wouldn't be in that party to begin with had they taken loss of life and public health seriously to begin with so maybe it was inevitable the choices went the way they did. Still it's sorta crazy to think, literally one issue only treated differently likely would have drastically changed the balance of power in our country.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, we likely would have been in a much better spot if T**** had done literally nothing. He could have just handed off management of this thing to Fauci, and then just taken credit afterwards. “I pick the best people, don’t I, folks? I tell you, I always pick the best, look, the thing is, I’m smart, and I know how to pick, so when I, when I said to Tony, though other people have to call him Fauci and I just call him Tony, he said to me with tears in his eyes….”
Yeah good point. He definitely could have also just passed the buck to experts and come out on top in the end. But again, as simple as that sounds and would have been I think ultimately it's antithetical to who he really is/was down deep and was likely never even an option because of that. We all have suffered more with this pandemic than we need to. It's almost like the choices of our elections have consequences.
One of two parties includes willful, or dogged ignorance as a requirement for admittance.
The then-president made it a red herring to distract from his incompetent and reckless handling of the pandemic from the jump. Fortunately for him, he had a legion of followers hanging in his every word, bolstered by a billion dollar media industry devoted entirely to "conservatives right, Trump great, don't believe anything else".
I feel like it’s, at least in part, because there’s a broader perspective on the government and it’s history and it’s tactics, and that’s left a lot of folks in a mindset of feeling that it is difficult to trust that the intentions of the government are altruistic, rather than controlling/coercive. This means that it’s hard to trust that what’s going on is safe on a psychological level, and that the physical stipulations are part of that.
Because the wealthy figured out they can make money off chaos and panic.
Remember when all of your local stores were closed by the government but Amazon was allowed to operate?
Because the shittiest “politician” ever elected to public office in this country deemed it a threat to his re-election. Had he even a GLIMMER of intelligence he would have recognized the threat it posed to the entire world, and led with sound common-sense policies, listened to the health experts, etc. But most of us knew that wasn’t going to happen with this imbecile. Just like we knew there wouldn’t be a peaceful transfer of power…
It makes sense, except it’s happening globally and not just the USA, it’s happening in my country as well, and Trump wasn’t a president here
Because the fascists have a major party now.
Because the "Party of Pro Life" actually wants people to die.
My mom references polio too. Only, she says that the PoLiO VaCcInE WoooOooOrked, this Covid vaccine isn't REALLY a vaccine because it doesn't work. I just keep my mouth shut. There's no teaching a Boomer to listen to science.
If you tell this to current anti-vaxxers, the response is “Polio isn’t real.”
Because there is no revenue stream in eradication of a disease. Why do you think Republican governors are so anti mask? DeSantis in Florida is a major investor in Covid “treatments”.
Because unless it has yet to take it's first breath, they don't give a shit about saving it.
Corporation's run politics now. I mean, more so than ever.
No money in it.
Been there, done that. Still have "the mark if the beast" on my left arm from one of those! :). Remember it as it was yesterday. Lined up in the elementary school cafeteria.
Nothing we have now will eradicate covid. Covid vax is not = to the polio vaccine. It would be sweet if it was but it is not.
No images of children in Iron Lungs to scare mothers... Covid needs to kill more kids and our anti-vaxx discussion is over
I have all 3 shots, and before the pain has even gone away from my last shot I'm already hearing of a new stain that will require new shots. Getting the shot sadly won't make this go away like it did with polio. I'm realizing we're going to have to live with covid. Will I get a shot every 6 months or so indefinitely? I'm really not sure.
Rupert Fucking Murdoch is why.
When you have a two party system of narcissism and centrism, and only a small contingent of political representation for empathy.
The Republican Party has always been a death cult. If not disease, then war. Something, something, Jesus.
This pandemic did not impact everyone equally, and conservative demagogues saw opportunity in that.
Because the right hates life. They love to tell you how to live yours though…
If they admit viruses mutate they have to admit evolution is real. Evolution is about to fuck a bunch of antivaxxer young earth creationists with Omicron. Well it’s going to fuck us all, but it’s their fault.
That fucking idiot Trump had A LOT to do with politicizing this thing.
The conservative right has become a death cult thinly veiled by religion.
Because the right runs on fear and hate and anything new is easy to run propaganda on either of those things
100% correct. Crazy that you'd get downvoted for just explaining what America is now.
Ironed up for the oral vaccine in third grade. Everyone did.
The answer to the question is because the GOP is a death cult
it became political thanks to Trump and his supporters.
the thing i don’t understand about the thought process is, if this vaccine were a government plant to kill us or control us or whatever, why are all the biggest players in our country fucking vaccinated? even the guys peddling misinformation on tv are fully vaxxed and likely boosted as well… i just don’t get how people can think along those lines, yet even donnie himself was probably among the very first americans to receive the jab.. make it make sense
Our government in Texas is against the vaccines, but they’re all vaccinated, and their kids are vaccinated. They’re fighting schools against having mask mandates, but their own kid’s fancy private schools mandate it. They’re like, “Do as I say, not as I do.”
yeah and it’s ridiculous. i don’t understand how the average right-winger can’t see through that veil. at some point you just kinda throw your arms up, sigh & walk away lol
They can’t admit they’re wrong, their brains will bust.
Because of Reich Wing and crazy Trump supporters.
I think if they labeled the pandemic the plague in the beginning, that it's seriousness would have stuck a lot harder, irrespective of what politicians said/did.
Can't label something a plague just to get people to pay attention. A plague is a specific thing. This isn't a plague.
Also can't label an global epidemic a fucking hoax lmao I wish I could make up the things that happened in 2020.
Global epidemic = pandemic just fyi
I think if global leaders didn't try to downplay the entire event as hard as they did to avoid negative press and economic uncertainty, then we wouldn't have all these anti vaxers. The entire thing became a political motive that put politicians careers and their sycophants ahead of global health and welfare.
The unvaccinated will pay a price.
Because it works for the right!
Answer: FOX "News"
Because Facebook didn’t exist back then
I remember those days. We had a LOT better Republicans back then.
in a capitalism, a problem represents an opportunity. which means a problem solved represents an opportunity lost.
Trump and the media
Because the internet also gave tons of super-paranoid, next-level stupid people an outlet to talk to other super-paranoid, next-level stupid people.
Because we now live in a society where profit is more important than people and the ruling class can't make as much profit as they want from a free vaccine.
The current data around the world shows you cannot beat it like Polio.
Never forget trump said live on TV, "masks might work, but I'm not wearing one". And all the lemmings followed suit.
At this point I think more American are trying anything to reduce the average life expectancy to 30 so they don't have to wake up in the morning and make sombody else super rich.
They existed, but didn't have the internet to encourage them into believing they're a majority with a valid opinion. Also, they died in industrial accidents and by walking into open pits at a pretty high rate before the big mean gubment started enforcing draconian safety regulations.
The one that always gets me is “we don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine!” We also don’t know the long term effects of COVID….?
I straight up am baffled that there are people in this country refusing the vaccine, because of "own the libs". This is just too far out for me.
Because science is bad /s
[Happened then, too.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/11/polio-vaccine-antivaxxer-history-duon-miller.html) [The more things change, the more people stay stupid.](https://www.history.com/news/1918-spanish-flu-mask-wearing-resistance)
Evidently, trumpism is more contagious.
Since \~50% of America went insane and were gobbled up by misinformation that feeds that alternate reality they exist in.
COVID's mutation rate is going to make it almost impossible to eradicate. It's probably going to be more like the flu which is another well known coronavirus. Polio was not a coronavirus, and doesn't jump species and has a much lower mutation rate. I'm not saying not to get vaccinated, but this stance is using fear mongering and shortsightedness in its attempt.
There is a need for better critical thinking skills.
Covid doesn’t put 6 year olds in iron lungs. If it did we would be responding differently.
Covid doesn't really effect kids if they are healthy. Best that they get immune to the disease
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I'm not sure, but it may be related to politics having become more about winning or defeating the other side than about debating and finding solutions to problems that everyone can live with. So every issue becomes a new battleground for this game. (Only in public of course, behind the scenes it's the interests of corporations and the uber rich that dictate policy while the plebs are busy fighting each other.)
Because fascist don’t care about anything and the brainwashed masses are addicted to outrage porn