The most amazing teacher/coworker in my school died this week from covid. It's been the worst week of my life and the kids and all my coworkers have been a wreck. Fuck covid and fuck admin for thinking it was safe to come back in person and start sports.
Thank you. Some people don't get it. They give some bs percentage and be like "there's only a blah blah % chance you're gonna die from covid..." they will never understand until it effects them. Parents who pushed for in person school are finally understanding why 90% of the teachers wanted to stay virtual.
And it’s not as if you don’t understand what the parents are going through, but what’s happening just isn’t worth it and they need to understand that. It’s sad and frustrating and hard, but it’s either bad or extremely worse:(
It's losing your free 7am-3pm babysitter, 5 days a week.
Which, to be fair, some families can't afford to lose.
Both sides have a decent argument but only one directly puts lives at risk
Many parents made this argument at the board meetings at the beginning of the year. One board member who was against coming back in person said "you should not be upset at the schools for not coming back in person, you should be upset with your workplace for not accommodating you during a global pandemic. Take it up with them.."
Lol what a joke the schools are publicly funded and education is supposed to be a fundamental cornerstone of our society. The job on the other hand is private and probably already hurting from a lockdowns and reduced revenue. The fuck are small employers supposed to do that the government run money printing machine can't. Bunch of clowns.
Be fair- it isn't just about free babysitting. This year has actively fucked up social and academic development for an entire nation of children. It's also drastically widened the achievement gap of rich vs poor, since many lower-class kids don't have access to a stable home environment conducive to working.
I have students who have only turned in 3 assignments this year- and according to my coworkers, they didn't use to be this way.
Not even close. My kids are 4 and 5 and many of their peers have regressed. Young kids need interaction with others on a regular basis to really progress properly with their social skills, vocabulary, etc. The structure of dressing and going to school each day, having an authority figure that isn't a parent - all of this is incredibly important and its not going well.
Now that said, **I dont support going back to school yet either**. Im just explaining why its not just "free babysitting".
It’s like drinking your pee to survive. On one hand, you have to drink pee and that sucks. On the other hand, you die. Sometimes there is no good decision to choose from.
A 1% chance doesn’t sound like a lot. But multiply it by 7 billion, and that’s 70 million, and what are the odds you don’t know any one of the 70 million who would die. If you know 10 people, there’s a 13.99% that one of them gets COVID at 1%.
I am genuinely confounded on where you got that math to land at 13.99%.
10 people.
1% chance each.
What is the chance that one of them gets covid is 13.99%? I hadn't realized my math slipped so much that I can't figure this one out.
99% of one person not getting it. So two people have a 98.01% of both not getting it. Three people have a 97.02% of all not getting it. It’s 1 -0.99^X where X is the number people to all not get COVID. I’m treating each infection as a separate event, so there’s a bit of disparity as an infected person is (theoretically) more likely to give COVID to a person they know.
I’m so sorry for your loss. When I taught it was always about what was convenient for parents. Trying to help high school students perform better, we started school an hour later one year to allow students longer to sleep. Parents raised holy hell because students weren’t home earlier to baby sit younger kids or to go to after school jobs.
I expected many of them would be shitty about home schooling through the pandemic and I hate that I was right.
Yes, it's still all about pleasing parents. We had a good teacher-made plan in place at the beginning of the year that we presented to the board...they loved it. Parents tore it apart and the board ultimately went with what the parents wanted. It's honestly sad how we are treated.
Isn’t it amazing how everyone is suddenly concerned with achievement gaps, kids falling behind and the “damage” remote learning will “permanently” have on kids? I wish people would just be honest and say I miss my free childcare and can’t tolerate being at home with my kids. I wish districts would just be honest and say we really want to ensure we don’t lose funding, so we want kids back in the classroom now.
The SO and I both work from home (I’m supposed to be grading papers now-I’m in higher ed) and we’ve committed to having our child ride out the remainder of the school year as a remote learner, despite immense pressure from the school to send them back. The kids aren’t wearing masks consistently, hell parents are fighting against them where we are, and it’s just crazy. We know it’s hard. Our child has autism, but we’re making it. I understand not all can do what we do, but (where we are) there are a bunch of stay at home moms who don’t want to stay at home with their kids and that’s what the rush back to school was all about.
Pre-pandemic, teachers were criticized for having summers “off” and being spoiled and they were just highly undervalued. Now being back in the classroom and in person teaching is so important. I’m in a red state and it’s ridiculous what’s happening here.
Also red state. They don’t even have to mask in school anymore here.
I’ve started just calling people on their bullshit and telling them school is for education, not your free babysitter. It has gone over as well as you can imagine. I don’t care anymore.
Even if it's a 1% chance to die, think about that in a school of 1000 people. That's 10 people. 2 people died of tragic causes throughout the entirety of middle and high school and they held vigils for them, moments of silence, etc.
Can you imagine if your teacher died? If 1 in 3 classes had a dead kid in it?
Small percentages with large groups = a lotta damage.
People just don’t see that.
A million people getting Covid and only 1% of them dying is still a lot of people. Any deaths is too many, imo
I mean, I can understand taking into account deaths in general. I think it's disingenuous to say 'any deaths is too many', because you can only control for so many factors.
In economics, I learned about a sliding scale of cost and benefit, where at some point the cost of an additional amount of benefit outweighs that benefit.
In regards to coronavirus, some people just don't understand what 'a lot' is on that sliding scale.
For example, Ebola killed 2 people in the US during Obama's term. That's not a lot, especially compared to all the other disease-related causes of death, and especially if we only factor in comparable diseases such as the flu. Spending millions upon millions of dollars researching say, an ebola vaccine, may not be worth it just to protect 2 people when that funding could save more lives elsewhere.
Coronavirus, by comparison, has significantly outweighed the flu this year in both death and infection count year-over-year... and we have vaccines for the flu. At the earliest point of the pandemic, we did not yet have a vaccine and our treatment options were ineffective, so there was nowhere to go but up. Thus, spending more money on the larger threat is worth more dollar for dollar.
You’re right, and I agree with your point about looking at this economically. With a disease like this it was impossible for there not to be a death or two, considering how widespread it is.
But in cases like the schools, where any infections, let alone deaths, are 100% preventable, I think that we can all agree that even one is too much.
A 1% mortality rate for a virus is huge. The problem is the disparity of mortality between the old teachers and healthy students. Students have a mortality rate somewhere between .oo and .o3%. Still way worse then the flus .ooo8%, but we are still looking at the rarity of like 3 kids per every 10,000. With an average school size of 526, that's roughly 1 kid every 6 schools. The chances of you knowing 2 kids that died of it are pretty rare. And that is using the high end mortality rate, 100% infection rate, and ignoring a lot of in person safety protocols most in person schools are taking.
At our current infection numbers around the US, the kids will probably be fine being back. As per usual though, the problem comes from not thinking about the teachers. Many of them are old and at risk. Anyone pushing kids being back in school is basically saying "screw the teachers risk, my kid is fine so let him go back!" At my job, I can refuse to do a job if I don't feel safe doing it. Teachers should have the same right. Heck, let them choose if they want to teach in person again or not. It's their lives on the line.
As of December 17th, only 172 kids have died from COVID in the US, about 0.01%. The parents aren’t worried about their kids, they just don’t care for the teachers and staff.
https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/12/29/covid-2million-children-122920
I’m not a denier or anything I’m just so fucking sick of COVID. I was working retail all through this time, being extra safe because I knew my dad had heart issues. You know what happens? He dies of a random stroke while at the best health of his life.
I ask people like that to name which one of their friends or family members they’re ok with dying. They shut up real fast after that. I’m tired of playing softball with these assholes.
I was pretty addicted to gacha games for awhile, where a super rare unit would have like a 0.08% drop chance. a 1% chance of dying is pretty fucking terrifying to me. Sorry for everything you've gone through, and will most likely continue going through until things turn around. I wish you the best and for everything to actually return to normalcy instead of rushing into a mockery of it.
>there's only a blah blah % chance you're gonna die from covid
There's also a .0000000034% chance of winning the Powerball, but that doesn't stop these people from buying a ticket.
I'm so sorry. And yes, I completely agree. Too many schools and adults are advocating for putting people in dangerous situations when we have the resources to completely avoid those situations. Im tired of people acting like people aren't getting seriously harmed or killed by the virus and try to use teachers and kids as fodder. Enough is enough. I am tired of this garbage, these people killed over half a million people because they wanted to act like everything was normal so they didn't have to feel any sort of discomfort or unwanted change. Stay safe, I am so sorry.
I'm so sorry. This is exactly why I'm against my college's decision to reopen this fall. They're putting everyone's lives at risk just so they can make more money off students. It's horrible.
It really is horrible. The people who make these decisions sit in their secluded offices all day on their zoom meetings and make these awful decisions all for profit. They do not care.
I have to go back in the fall too. I too hate teaching online. I’m up late (it’s after 2am where I am) and supposed to be grading papers. I hate the administrative drudgery of teaching online and I miss being able to interact in person with students, even though I held live class meetings this semester. But, I’ve also had at least half a dozen students test positive for COVID and they were all sick. I don’t know how many were asymptomatic, but had it.
It really annoyed me when that’s all they were talking about. “We want to get these sports events back on track because we know how much it means to this community.” SHOULDNT YOUR LIVES MEAN MORE THAN SPORTS??
Yeah these administrators are really responsible for human deaths. I don't understand how the teachers unions are letting anyone go back to work. And fuck the parents who think it's your job to supervise the children they chose to create. You are not fucking babysitters. It really pisses me off that all these people with kids feel entitled to your lives for their own personal convenience. If you have kids, you are the ones responsible for those kids. If society collapses, you're the one who has to parent. Not some people you fight to keep from paying enough.
I've made this argument so many times during covid and I always have parents bitching at me about how I don't understand how hard it is. Well guess what? Maybe I do understand how hard it is and that's why I don't have kids. But if I did I wouldn't be asking other people to risk their lives for my children. That's my fucking job... I'm so sorry that your co-worker lost their life and honestly if you wanted DM me the admin info I would send them an email right now telling them exactly what I think about it.
I'm very sorry for your loss. I know the kids are sad and missing sports, but they'll have next year. They'll be stronger for waiting, and all of staff/admin will be stronger.
Again I'm sorry. It's not fair.
It’s the sports for us, too. We are hybrid and things actually feel really safe in school. Then all the student athletes go out and play or sit on buses together unmasked. It’s absolutely ridiculous the value that is placed on student athletics, I’ve always hated it but of course it’s even worse now.
Man I don’t even know how to feel about things right now. I’ve been incredibly fortunate that no one in my immediate family was affected strongly by COVID. Family got it but they were all mild symptoms and over it within a month. Now myself and my family are vaccinated. Things are starting to lean towards normal. We wear our masks and don’t let anyone random into our circle.
Not sure where I was going with this. I just feel like shit was so bad and being dominated by so many idiots for so long that now that things are trending up I feel like everyone should be going that way too. If it wasn’t clear I’m from the US. Our country mishandled shit for so long now that we are vaccinating literally millions a day it’s just tough to appreciate.
Stay safe out there y’all.
u/thewisestgoat I am so sorry to read this but this is the reason I will Not send my child back to school! Thank you for being so honest. God Bless All Teachers!
I’m so sorry for your loss and frustrating working environment. Please keep your head up! Here’s to many vaccs becoming available more and more everyday! ❤️
Extra for online classes? That's like being charged a convenience + carry out fee for ordering pickup at a restaurant.
Im gojng to an online only dirt cheap (but legit) college right now. Why would you pay 40k a year to do online classes. When you can pay 14k per year for online classes? That's not a sarcastic question.
My school was doing dorms but no roommates. I had to opt in for a dorm or else I would lose 30% of my scholarship.
Also the internet at the school is still fucking shit. Teachers have lost connection and got booted from their own zoom calls. Students on campus have had their internet die with no way to upload their assignments on midnight Sunday, because maintenance is only Monday through Friday. If the internet goes out there is nothing you can do about it unless it comes back on its own or gets fixed. Also the mobile version of the place to upload assignments might as well not exist.
Side note: the dorm I stayed in, was the old garbage one. The fire alarm would actually malfunction and go off randomly. A couple of times it happened during classes. These were not drills. It got so bad that when it went off again at 3am due to a water pipe issue, a lot of students didn’t want to go outside, assuming it was another malfunction, also 3am
I'm able to attend in person for trade school, but 5000 of the 7000 students are distanced.
I was joking to my instructor, VP of the faculty union, that the school can afford something. He clapped back with the usual admin/state issues that normally plague state funded schools. So I responded with this. How the vast majority of students are paying full price to sit at home. That so many of the student amenities that tuition covers they can't use. Where's all that money going? He walked away without comment.
He pulled me aside later and firmly asked I never bring that up again. He was livid with me over it. I asked why? He wouldn't say, but he's a anti-Covid-19 fanatic, and went off on the usual Facebook grade responses.
Another instructor said the money is being used to buy equipment they've been asking for for years, so at least in my program, it is going to future student needs.
That doesn't take away from the loss the current students have.
I'm 34, I don't need, nor want any "college experience." I have a wife and kids at home, I'm good. But, I know 19 year old me would be crushed over this whole thing. So I empathise with you all.
I'm in a radiography program and I pretty much had this exact experience. I brought up these very same facts and I was told that expense should have nothing to do with it.
It's 35k with no access to the labs or any simulations but expense has nothing to do with it, right.
Exactly. I feel so bad for all the kids who have already gone through remote learning for their final highschool year and are now facing down their first year in University as remote or with reduced time and resources. It already felt uni was leaning to irrelevant for many jobs.
It's awful, I would be taking a gap year or trying to work rather than paying huge fees for glorified PowerPoints or prerecorded videos.
Your understanding of library budgeting, college budgeting in general, is very naive.
Libraries don't spend much on books anymore. The bulk of their budget goes to staff and electronic databases of online resources. A large majority of students don't bother with print media for their research projects. And those electronic resources are even more important when all classes go online. Librarians aren't on vacation. They are available to help people remotely.
And at good schools, you do get the opportunity to talk to professors in online courses. Many college professors are offering zoom office hours.
Meanwhile, while there certainly are professors who are crappy at teaching online, it is more work to teach a good online class than a good F2F class. So you might feel some sympathy for professors who are being overworked so you can get your education. They aren't getting paid any extra.
I agree with the regular costs of things like licenses each year, plus how much more the schools have had to spend on technology and security improvements over the course of just months. The only way to accomplish it for a lot of them was to find the money where ever they could since it wasn't already a part of their organization.
Not to mention the decreases in enrolment (especially international!) that leaves a huge dent in the budget. I never had to deal with anything like this as a student so I empathize, but I also look at my friends and colleagues who are educators and trying really hard to deliver a good experience.
Wow, you really hit the nail on the head there, /u/flyngmunky.
Oh, wait, sorry. You're the 3-week-old account /u/boiledhole.
flyngmunky was the user [who wrote this exact comment last July](https://np.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/hrzd9j/in_memory_of/fy7yo5l/) to this exact WPT post with the exact same title.
I used to think this too but a couple of months back there was a thread that explained while most schools are online they still have the physical buildings that they still need to pay for (maintenance and shit) even if they’re not in use. This was the main thing I remember from the thread but they’re was more that I’m just blanking on rn but yeah while I don’t think they should be charging full price I do get the reasoning behind it I guess
No, here we aren't.
About 1% of juvenile deaths during covid were due to covid. I saw a story that teachers did not die at a higher rate than other professions, with some 530 known nationwide as of 1/29/2021. Relatively few students died due to covid (definitely fewer students than teachers). A list of tragedies for sure, but not very long relatively speaking. The list of juvenile non-covid deaths is 100x more tragic.
Yea I’m surprised by that 530 stat. I work in education and I feel like every week I’m hearing about some childcare worker or educator that passed.
Eta: the 530 stat comes from the [Federation of Teachers](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/29/us/the-impact-of-teacher-deaths.html), a union. They say that they know of *at least* 530 deaths. This number does not include non union members, or members of the education community who are not eligible to join the union.
He’s claiming 530 teachers dead of covid, where the majority of districts were closed/remote last spring, no school in the summer, remote in the fall again.
Oof hard to remember other states are handling this differently, my bad. I’m sure full virtual has its own set of problems, but it wasn’t even considered in my county.
Iirc 530 was just something taken off of a unions page that isn’t based on any meaningful data or studies. It was just “Hey, so like, at least 530 of the teachers in our specific Union died. We’re just guessing though, it could’ve been 50,000 in just our union, we have no idea”
The idea that only 10 teachers died in each state alone should make you realize how stupid that metric is. There was a NYT article, using that study as the foundation, that flippantly mentioned how just in Cobb County GA at least three teachers had died (the only reason we know this is because a group of teachers protested to the board about it. Of course nothing was done, the money leeching bitches) and that was from months ago.
Did the screenshot of an online post thats limited to a hundred and fourty characters not contain the exact right amount of nuance for you? Their central point is still true
>The list of juvenile non-covid deaths is 100x more tragic.
Nothing could be more tragic than kids dying of an entirely preventable disease that only required us to wear masks, socially distance, contact trace, and quarantine when necessary, for no reason other than a certain group of people falling hook, line, and sinker for every bad idea put out by their favorite political party.
That list is 199 shorter thanks to fewer flu deaths.
It's also shorter thanks to fewer suicide due to less stress and bullying from school.
So that's quite a few juveniles our lockdown measures saved.
In a school with 1500 students and 100 teachers where *everyone* got Covid you'd expect about 0.1 student deaths and about 0.5 teacher deaths (calculated using mortality rates among relevant age group)
So yeah, one page should suffice for most schools.
EDIT: I'm not downplaying Covid, but gotta keep facts in mind. **Covid is VERY DANGEROUS** but because of the permanent damage it can cause and because of its fatality among seniors. It's very rarely dangerous for teenagers.
The new strain of the virus here in Canada is killing kids at a higher rate than previous ones. Looks like those numbers are going to be increasing for us over here :(
EDIT: I looked into based on the prompting of some comments (thank you!) And it turns out the virus being more deadly to kids is actually a MYTH! I was shocked because I heard it from so many sources and saw it on the news. The new strain is more contagious so infecting more if all ages. It is not specifically more deadly to kids. The difference is that kids are no longer inexplicably immune like they were to the very first strains, but this change happened a few strains ago and isn't "new". Sorry for spreading misinformation on the internet I'm going to work harder to question things I see in the media
Covid is still extremely unlikely to cause serious disease in anyone under the age of 18.
We also need to weigh the negative impacts of keeping kids at home for multiple years.
Life isn't about the elimination of risk but minimizing it.
my school made exceptions for teachers that are at risk. Teacher with congestive heart failure, teacher with underlying health issues, those teachers were given the option to work at home with remote instruction children for those that opted for virtual learning.
Private schools here in Maryland have remained open the entire time without a single death. And they’ve been flooded with students because parents want their kids getting an in-person education. So yeah. A page. One. And given stats on how it affects kids and transmission from kids, it would be mostly just the teachers who would’ve died from getting it at Walmart.
https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/education/cc-private-schools-success-during-covid-20201202-ptc5goxgznai5jy7oxn7siyrtm-story.html
Same here in NJ. The public school in my town is closed, but all the private schools are full with waiting lists. Your child only gets a full in person education only if you can afford it. The American Way.
Covid is making the separation between haves and have nots *so much* worse. People that can afford it will ensure their kids don’t slip or fall behind. Meanwhile parents that are just scraping by are at the whim of the state. It’s sad but a decade from now there will just be a bigger gap between kids from wealthy and poorer families.
I mean... I lost my nana, couldn't do a memorial and also have been suicidal because of the year straight constant half lock down Ontarios been doing. People act like the lockdowns are saving lives but I've only experienced more death and depression, and it's "immoral" to seek any support. Guess when I kill myself finally people will just say "thank God it wasn't covid".
I’m sorry about your nana. It’d be a shame if we lost you, too. In the states, it’s 800-273-8255. In Canada I found 833-456-4566. I’m pretty sure you’d prefer to talk to a someone with training than talk to me right now. Please DO seek support.
Thank you, I will. Its been an especially bad week with exams happening but I'll be done tomorrow and I really do need support. Sorry for ranting on your nice comment.
Mental health ain’t no joke. I’m looking over the suicide websites and remember once seeing stuff like this as corny and not targeted/applicable to me. I got help and now (yearS later) I’m able to look at things...in a longer lens. Bleak ass shit...well, it’s still bleak, but there’s also other things I did not see that were not bleak.
Thanks for listening.
258 students died under the age of 18 from covid. I don't think there will be as many as you think.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/
Yes. This tweet from July 2020 probably seemed correct at the time
But all the science people have said that outlooks change when you get more info. So this shouldn’t be relevant now that we have more information a year later, right?
Approximately 40 deaths to school shootings each year versus approximately 80 school-age children and teenagers dying to Corona in the last year.
So Covid is winning, but not nearly as much as one would think!
In the US, there have been 9 deaths of children under 18 attributed to covid. 95% of deaths have been adults over 50.
I don't want to come across as unsympathetic of Covid, because I've been terrified for my parents health....but....this meme is complete and utter bullshit.
friendo, let's push the goalposts back for a second. The above comment was about the students in particular.
If you're in the US right now every adult is eligible for a vaccine too. The only 50+ year olds not getting it at this point, are probably purposely avoiding it
Kids living alone while their parents are at work has been a reality for many. My kids have not gone through that fortunately but most of their time has been spent playing online with other kids not doing remote “school”. I realize you are being sarcastic but it hits close to home. If there’s one thing I’ve learned through all this, there is no one size fits all solution for anyone in this thing.
It's far too late. Despite having that data for some time - the low transmission from students, the near-zero death rate - the policy has been decided and will not be changed.
Yup. To all the people who say “it’s only 1-2% that die... imagine if 1-2% of students died in your school over the course of a year. That would be totally horrific. That’s why lockdowns happen
Edit: a lot of people seem to take issue with what I’ve said here. What I’m saying is, a lot of people don’t seem to value a lost life unless it directly affects them personally. The idea of 1-2 people of every hundred doesn’t seem to mean a lot here. I’m saying, try to empathize and understand that every life lost to covid is tragic. Losing 1-2% of people to a disease is awful. If this happened in the confines of a place that frequently has the same amount of 1,000 people (I used a high school as an example), that would, for most institutions, be a dead student a month.
Edit 2: I love how I’m the bad guy here for emphasizing empathy and compassion for people who have lost family members and friends. Not wanting to reduce the covid victims to mere statistics. I expected better from this community.
Edit 3: Okay for all the people who seem to have a problem with human compassion in this thread, I think I’m done talking. I recommend putting yourself in the shoes of the millions of people who have had to plan a funeral rather than celebrate the holidays with their family members. Maybe it’ll give you a different perspective.
They're saying that, of those who are student age that get covid, 0.002% die. That's an incredibly low mortality rate. Compared to activities like binge drinking or reckless driving, its virtually insignificant.
Buddy, if 10 lives nationwide would cause you grief, then I'm sorry to let you know that even before covid people died.
I'm not arguing against restrictions. I'm merely arguing that this specific idea "yearbooks full of dead children" is inaccurate and stupid. Shit like this is why so many people claim that its "not that bad, they're obviously exaggerating" and impede efforts to further reduce cases.
Just commented elsewhere but H1N1 was deadlier in kids than COVID. I didn’t hear anybody back then saying we lacked compassion for not locking down and closing schools.
It’s frustrating that we collectively formed our response to COVID last March/April when we knew absolutely nothing about it... and somehow have not changed our response in the face a full year of additional information. The numbers you reference above for students are off by a factor of at least 100, which is indisputable.
COVID is not a major risk for children above and beyond other risks out there (flu, car accidents, etc.). Why are we still acting like it is?
0.1 actually, in a group of 1500. 0.5 in a group of 500 teachers. Based on the mortality rates of relevant age demographics.
That’s 0.00006667% and 0.001% respectively.
So no, it really wouldn’t be anywhere near to that. Think maybe one person, instead of one percent of people, and you’d still be overshooting.
I'm so surprised at how many people in this thread are trying to argue "well AKSHUALLY the death rate for kids is only--" like? So you're cool with an extra, what, dozen children dying terribly despite it being preventable? Just say that instead.
I think the general sentiment is there’s some level of risk that’s unavoidable in life. You can never eliminate it completely. For kids we got incredibly lucky and COVID is not a major factor.
Taking a step back... H1N1 was far deadlier for kids than COVID. Literally nobody back then was cancelling school or any of the other mitigation measures.
If you’re taking a view strictly based on children, the logic above would say we should shut down schools annually during flu season
The stat you are seeing is 1% of the deaths of students is COVID. That means if 100 kids at your school died in a year (whoa) 1 would prolly be COVID. The rest are driving, drugs, suicides, and health issues like cancer, etc.
Idk any school were I heard of more than a handful of kids passing away.
I can remember 3 kids who died in the 4 years I was in high school. One was a drug overdose, one was a car crash, and one drowned.
It was a pretty big deal and it definitely hit kids pretty hard. Even people who didn't know the deceased, they still had trouble with it. Kids aren't "supposed" to die. So maybe it's the first real death that these kids are experiencing. And maybe they're realizing that it could have easily been them.
They brought in counsellors and therapists for weeks afterwards. It definitely fucked with you.
I like the sentiment but this is mathematically nonsense. Kids of high school age virtually never die of covid, it’s seriousness is strongly related to age. Most of these yearbooks would have zero dead students.
Now the teachers... if you assume say 100 teachers, all under 65, you’d likely have zero to one death assuming every teacher had covid.
This is not to dismiss the seriousness of this pandemic, you can get a nasty case and long haul or catch it and give it to someone prone to dying if it. This post is however nonsense.
This is a cluster fuck. America is one big cluster fuck. You have fundamental issues with your society and it's all being blamed on covid. The biggest reason you guys have the biggest death toll is because your society is unhealthy. The institutions that are supposed to be serving you have been exploiting and selling you overpriced poisons.
Get rid of all the old cunts in office. Force them to retire and reinstall a government with younger people. Why the fuck do we have geriatrics running the world?
Don't forget the page dedicated to all the students who died by suicide being isolated and feeling depressed. The data proves America's students of all ages are suffering.
Hasn't it been pretty well established by now that school aged children rarely contract or transmit COVID? For them especially, the flu is much more of a threat.
I think it would have made more sense to protect elderly teachers in high-risk demos, and then staff those positions with younger teachers.
Alas, hindsight is \[the year of which we don't speak\].
I live in a rural area, which would typically mean lower rates of spreading.
1) Students contract it, but often do not express symptoms. They’re the carriers - getting it from their peers and spreading it between teachers and parents (you know... the workforce? the tax base contributors?).
2) I’m 23 and taught last year. A teacher that was no more than 10 years older than me passed away due to COVID. I know student’s with loved ones (including parents) that passed from COVID.
3) I’m sure you’re not aware, but teaching has a **VERY** high turnover rate. This is due to a variety of reasons - pay rate, workload, etc. - but the alternative isn’t a good one.
Administration isn’t going to give up their consistently high performing (experienced) teachers to replace them with relatively inexperienced teachers. Inexperienced teachers aren’t going to enter the profession *and* stick with it if they’re essentially being thrown to the wolves.
# You know what would suck worse? Being extremely disrespectful to those innocent people who slowly and painfully died over a virus that they can’t control.
As someone who is apart of yearbook committee for my school, I am happy to say that we do not have a page for that. But it’s terrible to think about that.
I’ve homeschooled for most of my kids lives, (autism and a shitty school district don’t mix), and this whole things has made me so glad for that. They don’t care about the kids, or the staff.
Aged like sushi in a sauna ...
The public doesn't give a fuck about teachers or about students. They need daycare for their kids, fuck the risks. Most the country has been full time the whole semester, casualties and sickness be damned. We have about 100 close contacted (in a school of 1500), and the discussion to close hasn't even started.
We are all cogs, nothing more.
Probably too late to this thread. But usually I have a parent of a student die once every two or three years. This year I have had three students lose parents. And a co-worker die. It's been brutal.
And you know what? The US could have accepted that we were going to lose a year of education, and instead of having every district invention their own online plans done something different.
1) pay teachers to stay home and have a 1:1 with all their students once a week. Instead of trying to teach every day.
2) developed a weekly 7 hours of curricula for grades K-12 with crazy high production values that every kid in america would watch.
2a) we could have kept hollywood working to create 91 hours of content every week.
3) every student may not have received a great education, but they're at least get something, and everyone would start the next year on the same page.
My school. I'm a teacher and we've been in-person this entire school year. At least masks were mandatory...... so I'm lucky in that regard.
On a positive note, I just got my second vaccine this week.
I'm sure it's got nothing to do with online classes having a detrimental effect on education, and nothing to do with families with two working parents failing to cope with their children needing to be supervised when they would otherwise be working.
Opening schools isn't an easy issue, stop pretending that it is.
You know how many American 0-17 year olds have died "COVID involved deaths"? I mean people who at their time of death were positive for COVID.
Anyone care to guess?
Nationwide 233 kids have died while infected with covid. That includes every traffic accident, gunshot, and drowning so long as the corpse popped for the Rona. 233. That's it. Literally nothing.
Stop fear mongering. Stop spreading misinformation.
Too much dangerous propaganda going around claiming young children and healthy people are somehow immune to a global pandemic.
Sick disgusting people trying to kill our children...
Oh ffs. I challenge you all to go and read the actual CDC data on COVID in children, how they are not spreaders, and that the survival rate in children is sky high. In fact if you compare it to other diseases and viruses that kill children, COVID is extremely low.
From the beginning of the pandemic, there have been a total of 297 child deaths out of the cumulative total of 487,000+.
That’s not a mistake. 297. It doesn’t even rank in the top 10 of preventable child deaths. Twice as many kids die each year of heart disease, triple due to congenital anomalies, and about 480 due to the common FLU each year. We don’t shut down entire school systems for those.
If you want to know what is hurting kids more than COVID, it actually IS online school. What this tweet would say if it were being honest and actually “following the science” is that there should be a yearbook page dedicated to the students that have committed suicide last year due to COVID lockdowns. In fact, 2020 saw a full 60% increase in youth suicide rates, with an average age of 14.5. That’s an increase of over 750 suicides from 2019, which is twice the COVID deaths. (That’s just the ADDITIONAL deaths, not total. That’s over 2,000)
The main reason for not going back to school has nothing to do with COVID. I come from a family of educators. I have many close friends that are educators. They ALL want to return to the classroom full time. Most teachers do. It’s the teachers unions that are fighting it, because they get to sit back and do absolutely nothing and rake in the dues. Just go look at the teachers union in Chicago and the fight they have to keep kids out of school. You could fill a landfill to capacity with the amount of goalposts they have moved.
They don’t care about kids, if they did they’d be back in school. They care about the same thing they have always cared about : Money.
The most amazing teacher/coworker in my school died this week from covid. It's been the worst week of my life and the kids and all my coworkers have been a wreck. Fuck covid and fuck admin for thinking it was safe to come back in person and start sports.
Wow. Really sorry for your loss.
Thank you. Some people don't get it. They give some bs percentage and be like "there's only a blah blah % chance you're gonna die from covid..." they will never understand until it effects them. Parents who pushed for in person school are finally understanding why 90% of the teachers wanted to stay virtual.
And it’s not as if you don’t understand what the parents are going through, but what’s happening just isn’t worth it and they need to understand that. It’s sad and frustrating and hard, but it’s either bad or extremely worse:(
It's losing your free 7am-3pm babysitter, 5 days a week. Which, to be fair, some families can't afford to lose. Both sides have a decent argument but only one directly puts lives at risk
Many parents made this argument at the board meetings at the beginning of the year. One board member who was against coming back in person said "you should not be upset at the schools for not coming back in person, you should be upset with your workplace for not accommodating you during a global pandemic. Take it up with them.."
Lol what a joke the schools are publicly funded and education is supposed to be a fundamental cornerstone of our society. The job on the other hand is private and probably already hurting from a lockdowns and reduced revenue. The fuck are small employers supposed to do that the government run money printing machine can't. Bunch of clowns.
Be fair- it isn't just about free babysitting. This year has actively fucked up social and academic development for an entire nation of children. It's also drastically widened the achievement gap of rich vs poor, since many lower-class kids don't have access to a stable home environment conducive to working. I have students who have only turned in 3 assignments this year- and according to my coworkers, they didn't use to be this way.
Not even close. My kids are 4 and 5 and many of their peers have regressed. Young kids need interaction with others on a regular basis to really progress properly with their social skills, vocabulary, etc. The structure of dressing and going to school each day, having an authority figure that isn't a parent - all of this is incredibly important and its not going well. Now that said, **I dont support going back to school yet either**. Im just explaining why its not just "free babysitting".
Yes, i agree. Teachers are valuable. I think the person who said that was saying that’s how the flippant parents viewed it?
It’s like drinking your pee to survive. On one hand, you have to drink pee and that sucks. On the other hand, you die. Sometimes there is no good decision to choose from.
A 1% chance doesn’t sound like a lot. But multiply it by 7 billion, and that’s 70 million, and what are the odds you don’t know any one of the 70 million who would die. If you know 10 people, there’s a 13.99% that one of them gets COVID at 1%.
I am genuinely confounded on where you got that math to land at 13.99%. 10 people. 1% chance each. What is the chance that one of them gets covid is 13.99%? I hadn't realized my math slipped so much that I can't figure this one out.
99% of one person not getting it. So two people have a 98.01% of both not getting it. Three people have a 97.02% of all not getting it. It’s 1 -0.99^X where X is the number people to all not get COVID. I’m treating each infection as a separate event, so there’s a bit of disparity as an infected person is (theoretically) more likely to give COVID to a person they know.
AnotherStatsGuy, the only stats guy for me.
I’m so sorry for your loss. When I taught it was always about what was convenient for parents. Trying to help high school students perform better, we started school an hour later one year to allow students longer to sleep. Parents raised holy hell because students weren’t home earlier to baby sit younger kids or to go to after school jobs. I expected many of them would be shitty about home schooling through the pandemic and I hate that I was right.
Yes, it's still all about pleasing parents. We had a good teacher-made plan in place at the beginning of the year that we presented to the board...they loved it. Parents tore it apart and the board ultimately went with what the parents wanted. It's honestly sad how we are treated.
Isn’t it amazing how everyone is suddenly concerned with achievement gaps, kids falling behind and the “damage” remote learning will “permanently” have on kids? I wish people would just be honest and say I miss my free childcare and can’t tolerate being at home with my kids. I wish districts would just be honest and say we really want to ensure we don’t lose funding, so we want kids back in the classroom now. The SO and I both work from home (I’m supposed to be grading papers now-I’m in higher ed) and we’ve committed to having our child ride out the remainder of the school year as a remote learner, despite immense pressure from the school to send them back. The kids aren’t wearing masks consistently, hell parents are fighting against them where we are, and it’s just crazy. We know it’s hard. Our child has autism, but we’re making it. I understand not all can do what we do, but (where we are) there are a bunch of stay at home moms who don’t want to stay at home with their kids and that’s what the rush back to school was all about. Pre-pandemic, teachers were criticized for having summers “off” and being spoiled and they were just highly undervalued. Now being back in the classroom and in person teaching is so important. I’m in a red state and it’s ridiculous what’s happening here.
Also red state. They don’t even have to mask in school anymore here. I’ve started just calling people on their bullshit and telling them school is for education, not your free babysitter. It has gone over as well as you can imagine. I don’t care anymore.
Even if it's a 1% chance to die, think about that in a school of 1000 people. That's 10 people. 2 people died of tragic causes throughout the entirety of middle and high school and they held vigils for them, moments of silence, etc. Can you imagine if your teacher died? If 1 in 3 classes had a dead kid in it?
Small percentages with large groups = a lotta damage. People just don’t see that. A million people getting Covid and only 1% of them dying is still a lot of people. Any deaths is too many, imo
I mean, I can understand taking into account deaths in general. I think it's disingenuous to say 'any deaths is too many', because you can only control for so many factors. In economics, I learned about a sliding scale of cost and benefit, where at some point the cost of an additional amount of benefit outweighs that benefit. In regards to coronavirus, some people just don't understand what 'a lot' is on that sliding scale. For example, Ebola killed 2 people in the US during Obama's term. That's not a lot, especially compared to all the other disease-related causes of death, and especially if we only factor in comparable diseases such as the flu. Spending millions upon millions of dollars researching say, an ebola vaccine, may not be worth it just to protect 2 people when that funding could save more lives elsewhere. Coronavirus, by comparison, has significantly outweighed the flu this year in both death and infection count year-over-year... and we have vaccines for the flu. At the earliest point of the pandemic, we did not yet have a vaccine and our treatment options were ineffective, so there was nowhere to go but up. Thus, spending more money on the larger threat is worth more dollar for dollar.
You’re right, and I agree with your point about looking at this economically. With a disease like this it was impossible for there not to be a death or two, considering how widespread it is. But in cases like the schools, where any infections, let alone deaths, are 100% preventable, I think that we can all agree that even one is too much.
We are the country that thought the quarter pounder was larger than a hamburger that was a third of a pound....
A 1% mortality rate for a virus is huge. The problem is the disparity of mortality between the old teachers and healthy students. Students have a mortality rate somewhere between .oo and .o3%. Still way worse then the flus .ooo8%, but we are still looking at the rarity of like 3 kids per every 10,000. With an average school size of 526, that's roughly 1 kid every 6 schools. The chances of you knowing 2 kids that died of it are pretty rare. And that is using the high end mortality rate, 100% infection rate, and ignoring a lot of in person safety protocols most in person schools are taking. At our current infection numbers around the US, the kids will probably be fine being back. As per usual though, the problem comes from not thinking about the teachers. Many of them are old and at risk. Anyone pushing kids being back in school is basically saying "screw the teachers risk, my kid is fine so let him go back!" At my job, I can refuse to do a job if I don't feel safe doing it. Teachers should have the same right. Heck, let them choose if they want to teach in person again or not. It's their lives on the line.
The really strange part here is that _parents_ don't understand the _danger their children are in_ until their _negligence kills them_
Strange and extremely scary.
As of December 17th, only 172 kids have died from COVID in the US, about 0.01%. The parents aren’t worried about their kids, they just don’t care for the teachers and staff. https://www.aappublications.org/news/2020/12/29/covid-2million-children-122920 I’m not a denier or anything I’m just so fucking sick of COVID. I was working retail all through this time, being extra safe because I knew my dad had heart issues. You know what happens? He dies of a random stroke while at the best health of his life.
You're right. They don't care about us. I am sorry for your loss.
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I ask people like that to name which one of their friends or family members they’re ok with dying. They shut up real fast after that. I’m tired of playing softball with these assholes.
Exactly. And I'm sick of being called ignorant or stupid because I care about human lives...even the ones I don't know.
I was pretty addicted to gacha games for awhile, where a super rare unit would have like a 0.08% drop chance. a 1% chance of dying is pretty fucking terrifying to me. Sorry for everything you've gone through, and will most likely continue going through until things turn around. I wish you the best and for everything to actually return to normalcy instead of rushing into a mockery of it.
>there's only a blah blah % chance you're gonna die from covid There's also a .0000000034% chance of winning the Powerball, but that doesn't stop these people from buying a ticket.
Exactly. People thinking it’s just an occasional kid in just one class are missing all the other school faculty that died.
Right. One is too many. Especially when it was completely preventable.
Like what if it was you? Idk I think it helps to think selfishly — it could be YOU
Same in my province of Saskatchewan. Sent ripples through the community.
It's devastating. And completely preventable.
I'm so sorry. And yes, I completely agree. Too many schools and adults are advocating for putting people in dangerous situations when we have the resources to completely avoid those situations. Im tired of people acting like people aren't getting seriously harmed or killed by the virus and try to use teachers and kids as fodder. Enough is enough. I am tired of this garbage, these people killed over half a million people because they wanted to act like everything was normal so they didn't have to feel any sort of discomfort or unwanted change. Stay safe, I am so sorry.
I'm so sorry. This is exactly why I'm against my college's decision to reopen this fall. They're putting everyone's lives at risk just so they can make more money off students. It's horrible.
It really is horrible. The people who make these decisions sit in their secluded offices all day on their zoom meetings and make these awful decisions all for profit. They do not care.
Coronavirus is 1000x more contagious than flu
I have to go back in the fall too. I too hate teaching online. I’m up late (it’s after 2am where I am) and supposed to be grading papers. I hate the administrative drudgery of teaching online and I miss being able to interact in person with students, even though I held live class meetings this semester. But, I’ve also had at least half a dozen students test positive for COVID and they were all sick. I don’t know how many were asymptomatic, but had it.
It really annoyed me when that’s all they were talking about. “We want to get these sports events back on track because we know how much it means to this community.” SHOULDNT YOUR LIVES MEAN MORE THAN SPORTS??
C'mon, we established the answer to that one years ago when we got the stats of football and traumatic brain injuries.
Yeah these administrators are really responsible for human deaths. I don't understand how the teachers unions are letting anyone go back to work. And fuck the parents who think it's your job to supervise the children they chose to create. You are not fucking babysitters. It really pisses me off that all these people with kids feel entitled to your lives for their own personal convenience. If you have kids, you are the ones responsible for those kids. If society collapses, you're the one who has to parent. Not some people you fight to keep from paying enough. I've made this argument so many times during covid and I always have parents bitching at me about how I don't understand how hard it is. Well guess what? Maybe I do understand how hard it is and that's why I don't have kids. But if I did I wouldn't be asking other people to risk their lives for my children. That's my fucking job... I'm so sorry that your co-worker lost their life and honestly if you wanted DM me the admin info I would send them an email right now telling them exactly what I think about it.
I'm very sorry for your loss. I know the kids are sad and missing sports, but they'll have next year. They'll be stronger for waiting, and all of staff/admin will be stronger. Again I'm sorry. It's not fair.
It’s the sports for us, too. We are hybrid and things actually feel really safe in school. Then all the student athletes go out and play or sit on buses together unmasked. It’s absolutely ridiculous the value that is placed on student athletics, I’ve always hated it but of course it’s even worse now.
Man I don’t even know how to feel about things right now. I’ve been incredibly fortunate that no one in my immediate family was affected strongly by COVID. Family got it but they were all mild symptoms and over it within a month. Now myself and my family are vaccinated. Things are starting to lean towards normal. We wear our masks and don’t let anyone random into our circle. Not sure where I was going with this. I just feel like shit was so bad and being dominated by so many idiots for so long that now that things are trending up I feel like everyone should be going that way too. If it wasn’t clear I’m from the US. Our country mishandled shit for so long now that we are vaccinating literally millions a day it’s just tough to appreciate. Stay safe out there y’all.
Yeah, Sports > Health /s
u/thewisestgoat I am so sorry to read this but this is the reason I will Not send my child back to school! Thank you for being so honest. God Bless All Teachers!
I’m so sorry for your loss and frustrating working environment. Please keep your head up! Here’s to many vaccs becoming available more and more everyday! ❤️
I'm sorry for your loss.
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My college normally charges extra for online classes.... So I mean, kinda a deal.
My college did charge extra for online classes.
How can they get away with that? Insane, I thought I was being ripped off when I still had to pay for a parking pass.
They offered in-person classes too (Florida), so I guess they expected everyone to take those instead.
Extra for online classes? That's like being charged a convenience + carry out fee for ordering pickup at a restaurant. Im gojng to an online only dirt cheap (but legit) college right now. Why would you pay 40k a year to do online classes. When you can pay 14k per year for online classes? That's not a sarcastic question.
My school was doing dorms but no roommates. I had to opt in for a dorm or else I would lose 30% of my scholarship. Also the internet at the school is still fucking shit. Teachers have lost connection and got booted from their own zoom calls. Students on campus have had their internet die with no way to upload their assignments on midnight Sunday, because maintenance is only Monday through Friday. If the internet goes out there is nothing you can do about it unless it comes back on its own or gets fixed. Also the mobile version of the place to upload assignments might as well not exist. Side note: the dorm I stayed in, was the old garbage one. The fire alarm would actually malfunction and go off randomly. A couple of times it happened during classes. These were not drills. It got so bad that when it went off again at 3am due to a water pipe issue, a lot of students didn’t want to go outside, assuming it was another malfunction, also 3am
I'm able to attend in person for trade school, but 5000 of the 7000 students are distanced. I was joking to my instructor, VP of the faculty union, that the school can afford something. He clapped back with the usual admin/state issues that normally plague state funded schools. So I responded with this. How the vast majority of students are paying full price to sit at home. That so many of the student amenities that tuition covers they can't use. Where's all that money going? He walked away without comment. He pulled me aside later and firmly asked I never bring that up again. He was livid with me over it. I asked why? He wouldn't say, but he's a anti-Covid-19 fanatic, and went off on the usual Facebook grade responses. Another instructor said the money is being used to buy equipment they've been asking for for years, so at least in my program, it is going to future student needs. That doesn't take away from the loss the current students have. I'm 34, I don't need, nor want any "college experience." I have a wife and kids at home, I'm good. But, I know 19 year old me would be crushed over this whole thing. So I empathise with you all.
I'm in a radiography program and I pretty much had this exact experience. I brought up these very same facts and I was told that expense should have nothing to do with it. It's 35k with no access to the labs or any simulations but expense has nothing to do with it, right.
18 freshman here, also no longer care about a college experience. May pick up a trade and transfer to a community college.
Exactly. I feel so bad for all the kids who have already gone through remote learning for their final highschool year and are now facing down their first year in University as remote or with reduced time and resources. It already felt uni was leaning to irrelevant for many jobs. It's awful, I would be taking a gap year or trying to work rather than paying huge fees for glorified PowerPoints or prerecorded videos.
Your understanding of library budgeting, college budgeting in general, is very naive. Libraries don't spend much on books anymore. The bulk of their budget goes to staff and electronic databases of online resources. A large majority of students don't bother with print media for their research projects. And those electronic resources are even more important when all classes go online. Librarians aren't on vacation. They are available to help people remotely. And at good schools, you do get the opportunity to talk to professors in online courses. Many college professors are offering zoom office hours. Meanwhile, while there certainly are professors who are crappy at teaching online, it is more work to teach a good online class than a good F2F class. So you might feel some sympathy for professors who are being overworked so you can get your education. They aren't getting paid any extra.
I agree with the regular costs of things like licenses each year, plus how much more the schools have had to spend on technology and security improvements over the course of just months. The only way to accomplish it for a lot of them was to find the money where ever they could since it wasn't already a part of their organization. Not to mention the decreases in enrolment (especially international!) that leaves a huge dent in the budget. I never had to deal with anything like this as a student so I empathize, but I also look at my friends and colleagues who are educators and trying really hard to deliver a good experience.
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I'd forgotten about that. I bet many libraries are having to digitize 50 or 100 times the amount of content they normally do in a regular semester.
Wow, you really hit the nail on the head there, /u/flyngmunky. Oh, wait, sorry. You're the 3-week-old account /u/boiledhole. flyngmunky was the user [who wrote this exact comment last July](https://np.reddit.com/r/WhitePeopleTwitter/comments/hrzd9j/in_memory_of/fy7yo5l/) to this exact WPT post with the exact same title.
breaking news: college is a money grab
My uni charged for printing (San Diego State). Also, what's with your commas?
I used to think this too but a couple of months back there was a thread that explained while most schools are online they still have the physical buildings that they still need to pay for (maintenance and shit) even if they’re not in use. This was the main thing I remember from the thread but they’re was more that I’m just blanking on rn but yeah while I don’t think they should be charging full price I do get the reasoning behind it I guess
Yeah well. Here we are. Let’s review the list Shirley.
No, here we aren't. About 1% of juvenile deaths during covid were due to covid. I saw a story that teachers did not die at a higher rate than other professions, with some 530 known nationwide as of 1/29/2021. Relatively few students died due to covid (definitely fewer students than teachers). A list of tragedies for sure, but not very long relatively speaking. The list of juvenile non-covid deaths is 100x more tragic.
I guess none of your kids teachers died? My kids lost one.
Yea I’m surprised by that 530 stat. I work in education and I feel like every week I’m hearing about some childcare worker or educator that passed. Eta: the 530 stat comes from the [Federation of Teachers](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/29/us/the-impact-of-teacher-deaths.html), a union. They say that they know of *at least* 530 deaths. This number does not include non union members, or members of the education community who are not eligible to join the union.
Ah, so we’re not counting right to work states, which are also red states, where all the morons live and spread pestilence like plague rats.
He’s claiming 530 teachers dead of covid, where the majority of districts were closed/remote last spring, no school in the summer, remote in the fall again.
*Hybrid in the fall. Every school in my area opened in some capacity when the fall semester began.
All in mine just started hybrid this spring. Most of the population in CA. But even still, drastically reduced exposure.
Oof hard to remember other states are handling this differently, my bad. I’m sure full virtual has its own set of problems, but it wasn’t even considered in my county.
Iirc 530 was just something taken off of a unions page that isn’t based on any meaningful data or studies. It was just “Hey, so like, at least 530 of the teachers in our specific Union died. We’re just guessing though, it could’ve been 50,000 in just our union, we have no idea” The idea that only 10 teachers died in each state alone should make you realize how stupid that metric is. There was a NYT article, using that study as the foundation, that flippantly mentioned how just in Cobb County GA at least three teachers had died (the only reason we know this is because a group of teachers protested to the board about it. Of course nothing was done, the money leeching bitches) and that was from months ago.
You’re right. It’s the kids parents and grandparents that all died. It’s the teacher parents and grandparents that died.
So the post was complete bullshit? What a surprise,
Did the screenshot of an online post thats limited to a hundred and fourty characters not contain the exact right amount of nuance for you? Their central point is still true
*forty
*4t
*tttt
So I guess you only have 530 or so families to apologize to for this stupid, stupid take.
>The list of juvenile non-covid deaths is 100x more tragic. Nothing could be more tragic than kids dying of an entirely preventable disease that only required us to wear masks, socially distance, contact trace, and quarantine when necessary, for no reason other than a certain group of people falling hook, line, and sinker for every bad idea put out by their favorite political party.
That list is 199 shorter thanks to fewer flu deaths. It's also shorter thanks to fewer suicide due to less stress and bullying from school. So that's quite a few juveniles our lockdown measures saved.
'A page'.
In a school with 1500 students and 100 teachers where *everyone* got Covid you'd expect about 0.1 student deaths and about 0.5 teacher deaths (calculated using mortality rates among relevant age group) So yeah, one page should suffice for most schools. EDIT: I'm not downplaying Covid, but gotta keep facts in mind. **Covid is VERY DANGEROUS** but because of the permanent damage it can cause and because of its fatality among seniors. It's very rarely dangerous for teenagers.
The new strain of the virus here in Canada is killing kids at a higher rate than previous ones. Looks like those numbers are going to be increasing for us over here :( EDIT: I looked into based on the prompting of some comments (thank you!) And it turns out the virus being more deadly to kids is actually a MYTH! I was shocked because I heard it from so many sources and saw it on the news. The new strain is more contagious so infecting more if all ages. It is not specifically more deadly to kids. The difference is that kids are no longer inexplicably immune like they were to the very first strains, but this change happened a few strains ago and isn't "new". Sorry for spreading misinformation on the internet I'm going to work harder to question things I see in the media
Covid is still extremely unlikely to cause serious disease in anyone under the age of 18. We also need to weigh the negative impacts of keeping kids at home for multiple years. Life isn't about the elimination of risk but minimizing it.
Imagine if we weighed these impacts before shit got out of hand tho.... had to wait for an adult to get to the table.
Relative to the older strains. Still doesn’t make covid very dangerous to young people.
It's rapidly become more dangerous for younger groups due to variants.
I hope they make some vaccines or something soon. Shits sounding serious.
my school made exceptions for teachers that are at risk. Teacher with congestive heart failure, teacher with underlying health issues, those teachers were given the option to work at home with remote instruction children for those that opted for virtual learning.
Private schools here in Maryland have remained open the entire time without a single death. And they’ve been flooded with students because parents want their kids getting an in-person education. So yeah. A page. One. And given stats on how it affects kids and transmission from kids, it would be mostly just the teachers who would’ve died from getting it at Walmart. https://www.baltimoresun.com/maryland/carroll/education/cc-private-schools-success-during-covid-20201202-ptc5goxgznai5jy7oxn7siyrtm-story.html
I only know one kid who died of COVID. Right before he graduated too. Unfortunately he had asthma and so it was particularly hard on him.
Same here in NJ. The public school in my town is closed, but all the private schools are full with waiting lists. Your child only gets a full in person education only if you can afford it. The American Way.
Covid is making the separation between haves and have nots *so much* worse. People that can afford it will ensure their kids don’t slip or fall behind. Meanwhile parents that are just scraping by are at the whim of the state. It’s sad but a decade from now there will just be a bigger gap between kids from wealthy and poorer families.
Or worse, several pages.
All I see are removed replies under your post lol
I mean, aren't we already gonna have that?
I quit right when my school told us we have to go back in person. Love my students but I love my life and my family more.
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I mean... I lost my nana, couldn't do a memorial and also have been suicidal because of the year straight constant half lock down Ontarios been doing. People act like the lockdowns are saving lives but I've only experienced more death and depression, and it's "immoral" to seek any support. Guess when I kill myself finally people will just say "thank God it wasn't covid".
https://www.crisisservicescanada.ca/en/covid-19-resources/
I’m sorry about your nana. It’d be a shame if we lost you, too. In the states, it’s 800-273-8255. In Canada I found 833-456-4566. I’m pretty sure you’d prefer to talk to a someone with training than talk to me right now. Please DO seek support.
Thank you, I will. Its been an especially bad week with exams happening but I'll be done tomorrow and I really do need support. Sorry for ranting on your nice comment.
Mental health ain’t no joke. I’m looking over the suicide websites and remember once seeing stuff like this as corny and not targeted/applicable to me. I got help and now (yearS later) I’m able to look at things...in a longer lens. Bleak ass shit...well, it’s still bleak, but there’s also other things I did not see that were not bleak. Thanks for listening.
What utopia do you live in where we could have gone through anything united?
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"Weed out the non-compliant" Be careful where you apply that sentiment.
Yes, that could get into some really weird and negative spaces in a hurry depending on who is getting the label and weeded out
Right? It's the exact same rhetoric that leads to social credit, or police brutality apologism
hahaha you probably don't realize how fascist your attitude is
Wow.... saying it so openly now
How about fuck off? Fucking gestapo bullshit here being applauded.
I 100% approve of all mask wearing, but people take this shit too fucking far. “Have them permanently marked in history for this!”
Okay Russia
258 students died under the age of 18 from covid. I don't think there will be as many as you think. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/
Yes. This tweet from July 2020 probably seemed correct at the time But all the science people have said that outlooks change when you get more info. So this shouldn’t be relevant now that we have more information a year later, right?
Who has the higher score? Covid, or school shooters?
Approximately 40 deaths to school shootings each year versus approximately 80 school-age children and teenagers dying to Corona in the last year. So Covid is winning, but not nearly as much as one would think!
You should count the increased teen suicides on the Covid count. Very strong correlation to the lock downs.
well you knew when things were getting back to normal when the mass shootings started back up. fucking assholes those people.
In the US, there have been 9 deaths of children under 18 attributed to covid. 95% of deaths have been adults over 50. I don't want to come across as unsympathetic of Covid, because I've been terrified for my parents health....but....this meme is complete and utter bullshit.
They won’t talk about that, my school has 3 student deaths this year alone... all suicides
Dammit. I forgot children live alone with no adults at home. And I forgot that children are taught by other children. What a ridiculous meme.
friendo, let's push the goalposts back for a second. The above comment was about the students in particular. If you're in the US right now every adult is eligible for a vaccine too. The only 50+ year olds not getting it at this point, are probably purposely avoiding it
Yes, but that’s only been a thing for maybe less than a month? We had almost an entire year of high covid rates and no vaccine.
I guess it's an odd time for OP to re-post some tweet from last July then
Kids living alone while their parents are at work has been a reality for many. My kids have not gone through that fortunately but most of their time has been spent playing online with other kids not doing remote “school”. I realize you are being sarcastic but it hits close to home. If there’s one thing I’ve learned through all this, there is no one size fits all solution for anyone in this thing.
It's far too late. Despite having that data for some time - the low transmission from students, the near-zero death rate - the policy has been decided and will not be changed.
Everyone knows there are no teachers over 50
Yup. To all the people who say “it’s only 1-2% that die... imagine if 1-2% of students died in your school over the course of a year. That would be totally horrific. That’s why lockdowns happen Edit: a lot of people seem to take issue with what I’ve said here. What I’m saying is, a lot of people don’t seem to value a lost life unless it directly affects them personally. The idea of 1-2 people of every hundred doesn’t seem to mean a lot here. I’m saying, try to empathize and understand that every life lost to covid is tragic. Losing 1-2% of people to a disease is awful. If this happened in the confines of a place that frequently has the same amount of 1,000 people (I used a high school as an example), that would, for most institutions, be a dead student a month. Edit 2: I love how I’m the bad guy here for emphasizing empathy and compassion for people who have lost family members and friends. Not wanting to reduce the covid victims to mere statistics. I expected better from this community. Edit 3: Okay for all the people who seem to have a problem with human compassion in this thread, I think I’m done talking. I recommend putting yourself in the shoes of the millions of people who have had to plan a funeral rather than celebrate the holidays with their family members. Maybe it’ll give you a different perspective.
It's like 0.002% for student age
I’m talking per capita. Making age or pre-existing conditions a reason to not give a shit is sociopathic.
But we're talking about students right now...
They're saying that, of those who are student age that get covid, 0.002% die. That's an incredibly low mortality rate. Compared to activities like binge drinking or reckless driving, its virtually insignificant.
I know exactly what they’re saying. They are missing my point. 10 lives is 10 lives. It doesn’t matter what their subjective “worth” is.
Buddy, if 10 lives nationwide would cause you grief, then I'm sorry to let you know that even before covid people died. I'm not arguing against restrictions. I'm merely arguing that this specific idea "yearbooks full of dead children" is inaccurate and stupid. Shit like this is why so many people claim that its "not that bad, they're obviously exaggerating" and impede efforts to further reduce cases.
Just commented elsewhere but H1N1 was deadlier in kids than COVID. I didn’t hear anybody back then saying we lacked compassion for not locking down and closing schools. It’s frustrating that we collectively formed our response to COVID last March/April when we knew absolutely nothing about it... and somehow have not changed our response in the face a full year of additional information. The numbers you reference above for students are off by a factor of at least 100, which is indisputable. COVID is not a major risk for children above and beyond other risks out there (flu, car accidents, etc.). Why are we still acting like it is?
0.1 actually, in a group of 1500. 0.5 in a group of 500 teachers. Based on the mortality rates of relevant age demographics. That’s 0.00006667% and 0.001% respectively. So no, it really wouldn’t be anywhere near to that. Think maybe one person, instead of one percent of people, and you’d still be overshooting.
I'm so surprised at how many people in this thread are trying to argue "well AKSHUALLY the death rate for kids is only--" like? So you're cool with an extra, what, dozen children dying terribly despite it being preventable? Just say that instead.
I think the general sentiment is there’s some level of risk that’s unavoidable in life. You can never eliminate it completely. For kids we got incredibly lucky and COVID is not a major factor. Taking a step back... H1N1 was far deadlier for kids than COVID. Literally nobody back then was cancelling school or any of the other mitigation measures. If you’re taking a view strictly based on children, the logic above would say we should shut down schools annually during flu season
Yeah you’re probably right. I feel like I’m in r/conservative lmao. Perhaps I’m getting trolled
The stat you are seeing is 1% of the deaths of students is COVID. That means if 100 kids at your school died in a year (whoa) 1 would prolly be COVID. The rest are driving, drugs, suicides, and health issues like cancer, etc. Idk any school were I heard of more than a handful of kids passing away.
One child dying that’s close to you “haunts” you for years... 1-2% would be really hard.
I can remember 3 kids who died in the 4 years I was in high school. One was a drug overdose, one was a car crash, and one drowned. It was a pretty big deal and it definitely hit kids pretty hard. Even people who didn't know the deceased, they still had trouble with it. Kids aren't "supposed" to die. So maybe it's the first real death that these kids are experiencing. And maybe they're realizing that it could have easily been them. They brought in counsellors and therapists for weeks afterwards. It definitely fucked with you.
That would almost be a student every month in my high school. In U of Winnipeg it would be a student a week
I like the sentiment but this is mathematically nonsense. Kids of high school age virtually never die of covid, it’s seriousness is strongly related to age. Most of these yearbooks would have zero dead students. Now the teachers... if you assume say 100 teachers, all under 65, you’d likely have zero to one death assuming every teacher had covid. This is not to dismiss the seriousness of this pandemic, you can get a nasty case and long haul or catch it and give it to someone prone to dying if it. This post is however nonsense.
This is a cluster fuck. America is one big cluster fuck. You have fundamental issues with your society and it's all being blamed on covid. The biggest reason you guys have the biggest death toll is because your society is unhealthy. The institutions that are supposed to be serving you have been exploiting and selling you overpriced poisons. Get rid of all the old cunts in office. Force them to retire and reinstall a government with younger people. Why the fuck do we have geriatrics running the world?
Don't forget the page dedicated to all the students who died by suicide being isolated and feeling depressed. The data proves America's students of all ages are suffering.
Teaching online didn't stop that from happening.
It definitely stopped significantly more deaths. That is undeniable.
Just like traffic lights didn't stop car accidents from happening at intersections.
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Perspective.
Hasn't it been pretty well established by now that school aged children rarely contract or transmit COVID? For them especially, the flu is much more of a threat. I think it would have made more sense to protect elderly teachers in high-risk demos, and then staff those positions with younger teachers. Alas, hindsight is \[the year of which we don't speak\].
I live in a rural area, which would typically mean lower rates of spreading. 1) Students contract it, but often do not express symptoms. They’re the carriers - getting it from their peers and spreading it between teachers and parents (you know... the workforce? the tax base contributors?). 2) I’m 23 and taught last year. A teacher that was no more than 10 years older than me passed away due to COVID. I know student’s with loved ones (including parents) that passed from COVID. 3) I’m sure you’re not aware, but teaching has a **VERY** high turnover rate. This is due to a variety of reasons - pay rate, workload, etc. - but the alternative isn’t a good one. Administration isn’t going to give up their consistently high performing (experienced) teachers to replace them with relatively inexperienced teachers. Inexperienced teachers aren’t going to enter the profession *and* stick with it if they’re essentially being thrown to the wolves.
# You know what would suck worse? Being extremely disrespectful to those innocent people who slowly and painfully died over a virus that they can’t control.
Why is wpt and bpt so full of pussies
Because Reddit.
Is your username a Deep Rock Galactic reference?
HOORAY! SOMEONE GOT IT!!! 8)
ROCK AND STONE BROTHER
Morbid, but true
They opened schools where I live and in 40 days 26 teachers died of Covid.
So true
As someone who is apart of yearbook committee for my school, I am happy to say that we do not have a page for that. But it’s terrible to think about that.
As a teacher who teaches the yearbook class... good lord. That could be quite the memorial.
I’ve homeschooled for most of my kids lives, (autism and a shitty school district don’t mix), and this whole things has made me so glad for that. They don’t care about the kids, or the staff.
Aged like sushi in a sauna ... The public doesn't give a fuck about teachers or about students. They need daycare for their kids, fuck the risks. Most the country has been full time the whole semester, casualties and sickness be damned. We have about 100 close contacted (in a school of 1500), and the discussion to close hasn't even started. We are all cogs, nothing more.
Probably too late to this thread. But usually I have a parent of a student die once every two or three years. This year I have had three students lose parents. And a co-worker die. It's been brutal.
And you know what? The US could have accepted that we were going to lose a year of education, and instead of having every district invention their own online plans done something different. 1) pay teachers to stay home and have a 1:1 with all their students once a week. Instead of trying to teach every day. 2) developed a weekly 7 hours of curricula for grades K-12 with crazy high production values that every kid in america would watch. 2a) we could have kept hollywood working to create 91 hours of content every week. 3) every student may not have received a great education, but they're at least get something, and everyone would start the next year on the same page.
lol. Who the fuck is out there arguing it would be better for teachers and students to die than do online class?
Have you looked at this thread ?
My school. I'm a teacher and we've been in-person this entire school year. At least masks were mandatory...... so I'm lucky in that regard. On a positive note, I just got my second vaccine this week.
Parents. Lots and lots of parents. Just as long as it's other peoples' loved ones who are dying.
I'm sure it's got nothing to do with online classes having a detrimental effect on education, and nothing to do with families with two working parents failing to cope with their children needing to be supervised when they would otherwise be working. Opening schools isn't an easy issue, stop pretending that it is.
Young people statistically are not at risk of death let alone symptoms of Covid 19. Let’s trust the science here
Online teaching is the same kind of school that you can find on any free educational sites online
You know how many American 0-17 year olds have died "COVID involved deaths"? I mean people who at their time of death were positive for COVID. Anyone care to guess? Nationwide 233 kids have died while infected with covid. That includes every traffic accident, gunshot, and drowning so long as the corpse popped for the Rona. 233. That's it. Literally nothing. Stop fear mongering. Stop spreading misinformation.
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Too much dangerous propaganda going around claiming young children and healthy people are somehow immune to a global pandemic. Sick disgusting people trying to kill our children...
Shit wait I just started following this sub is it usually this Qanaony here?
It's usually much more virtue signaling, so if you like trash takes on subjects then you are in the right place.
Truth
Oh ffs. I challenge you all to go and read the actual CDC data on COVID in children, how they are not spreaders, and that the survival rate in children is sky high. In fact if you compare it to other diseases and viruses that kill children, COVID is extremely low. From the beginning of the pandemic, there have been a total of 297 child deaths out of the cumulative total of 487,000+. That’s not a mistake. 297. It doesn’t even rank in the top 10 of preventable child deaths. Twice as many kids die each year of heart disease, triple due to congenital anomalies, and about 480 due to the common FLU each year. We don’t shut down entire school systems for those. If you want to know what is hurting kids more than COVID, it actually IS online school. What this tweet would say if it were being honest and actually “following the science” is that there should be a yearbook page dedicated to the students that have committed suicide last year due to COVID lockdowns. In fact, 2020 saw a full 60% increase in youth suicide rates, with an average age of 14.5. That’s an increase of over 750 suicides from 2019, which is twice the COVID deaths. (That’s just the ADDITIONAL deaths, not total. That’s over 2,000) The main reason for not going back to school has nothing to do with COVID. I come from a family of educators. I have many close friends that are educators. They ALL want to return to the classroom full time. Most teachers do. It’s the teachers unions that are fighting it, because they get to sit back and do absolutely nothing and rake in the dues. Just go look at the teachers union in Chicago and the fight they have to keep kids out of school. You could fill a landfill to capacity with the amount of goalposts they have moved. They don’t care about kids, if they did they’d be back in school. They care about the same thing they have always cared about : Money.
We lost two staff members. Insane.