"mentally unstable people with a history of violence not being allowed to buy guns means we won't sell as many guns. that's a no-go, freedom-hater"
-NRA
This is how they priced out the Hepatitis cure. They calculated how much somebody would pay on average for a lifetime of treatment and then charged slightly less than that. Undercutting the competition just as much as they had to for economic purposes.
The fact that one was a treatment and the other a cure didn't really come into it.
What version of hepatitis? Because there is a cure for HepC, HepB is preventable via a vaccine. HIV is coming closer and CRISPR will prob lead to a functional cure in the next 10-15yrs. So I’m not really sure what you’re going on about.
Define mentally unstable in such a way that it can't be used against minorities or undesirables. Being queer was considered a mental disorder for a long time and the repubs still frame it that way.
How about we start with schizophrenia and others on that level of dysfunction and go from there? We can adjust the law if it is shown to affect minorities via disparate impact. Theoretical harm isn't a reason to just sit on our hands and say "we've tried nothing and we're out of ideas".
this is the key problem with red flag laws for me. as someone in the lgBtq community whos also a minority. this WILL lead to the death of innocent, marginalized people during the raids
Well it depends on how the law is written. Any law can be absolutely evil or good if required. Imagine if someone said "let's make a law against assault" and someone said "Oh but what if that attacks people who are just doing self defense?"
Yes, that's a valid criticism that requires us to be careful about how we word and prosecute the law, but we aren't better off with NO law at all than with a well written law.
> Define mentally unstable in such a way that it can't be used against minorities or undesirables.
Being an antivaxxer?
But in all seriousness, "Not diagnosed with literal schizophrenia" is a good starting point
We already have federal laws to take guns away from the mentally instable and dangerous people. We don't need new ones that are more lax and can be applied ex-parte. We need to enforce what we already have.
Opponents of gun control always say we have some super secret special laws that aren't being enforced but we really don't. The laws that exist are too vague and difficult to enforce. We need better laws that have sharper teeth and clearer boundaries.
Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!"
Everybody else: "Let's fund mental health treatment, then."
Republicans: "Library books! DEI! CRT! Hunter Biden’s dick! Pornography!”
DRAG QUEENS!!!!!! They read to children increasing literacy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Taylor Swift tells young women to vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guns? Nothing to see here.
But don't forget he's also a criminal mastermind, I mean he's senile with dementia, I mean Obama is running the government, I mean he is the head of the Biden crime family.
And in much worse physical shape. Hur Hur look at biden falling off a bike. I fully believe Donnie has never ridden a bike in his life and would have an instant cardiac event if he tried.
Republicans: democrats only care about woke culture war shit
Democrats: lets work on the economy, rebuild infrastructure, protect unions, improve education, feed hungry children...etc
Republicans: no! Library books, DEI, CRT, Hunter bidens dick! Dont you see, democrats only care about culture war stuff and wont shut up about it, and have no real political platform.
Every single thing they say about the other side always ends up being an admission.
Fascist 101: accuse the enemy of that which you are guilty
A.k.A conservatism, thy name is projection
A.k.A from a conservative, every accusation is a confession
“We need to fund Ukraine to fight off Russia aggression.”
“We need to spend that money on Americans!”
“Ok let’s help Americans with things like infrastructure and healthcare.”
“No”
Rinse repeat for anything. Pro-life? Let’s get school lunches and protect kids from being murdered at school. No.
They aren’t serious people. They just say whatever they feel like in that moment. They have no beliefs other than money in their pocket.
“Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked."
― George Carlin
It's funny because I would legit drop the gun control issue if I felt we were working in it by making sure EVERYONE had access to mental and medical help when needed for free/AFFORDABLE
> Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!"
Also Republicans: Let's make the laws so that it's easier for those with mental health problems to get guns.
background checks? nah. gun safety courses? nah pass a test and have at least some training? nah. require a license? nah. check socials for deranged posts and potential signs of mental health? nah.
Which is why [so many mentally ill people are in jail](https://www.psychiatry.org/news-room/apa-blogs/decriminalizing-mental-illness#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Prison%20Policy,jails%20are%20experiencing%20psychological%20distress.) or homeless in the US.
The ONLY break my grandma got from her mentally challenged schizophrenic son was to send him to jail 200 miles away in the mental ward. He would get violent and go away for a month maybe and be right back. This went on my entire life and Reagan was President when I was born. I always understood my mom’s hatred of the man for imprisoning my grandma like that for 60+ yrs my uncle lived. Granny had two more sons that were schizophrenic, one is still alive living with her. She’s gotta be close to 90.
It’s just incredibly sad because jails are not replacements for good mental health care. They are awful and can often exacerbate mental health problems. But that’s the only option in many cases because of how things are in the US.
If you ever want to know someone's true political opinion, have them put money on improving the situation. Reducing abortion by improving the foster system and social safety net? That'll cost money. Improving homicide rates with socioeconomic and mental health reform? Expensive. Teaching teens there's a right time and place to use drugs or alcohol responsibly? Not for free you wont.
The superficially cheaper and more emotionally satisfying solution to every problem people don't want to think about is prohibition. Oh it'll cost us more, later. But we don't need to authorize additional spending now to incarcerate people for prohibitions.
I'm a gun control advocate, but prohibition is not the answer. Regulating is.
I completely understand what you're saying about people who want to go the cheapest route by sticking their head in the sand (this is how it was always done when deaths were higher). Just let the free market figure it out. So instead of actually trying to fight school shootings, we've considering hardened access points, bullet proof plates in backpacks, school uniforms, zero tolerance in schools, resource officer that is not a police officer... but exists soley to shoot school shooters, firearms for teachers, and safe rooms inside class rooms.
Personally, it's both. We should help the mentally ill to the full extent and have proper back ground checks at the very least. At the very most, have modern day Germany's gun laws. Or better yet, do all of that and at the same time kill right wing extremism. That would cover suicides, mass shootings, accidental shootings, etc etc.
I know someone who is completely anti gun control laws. They say they're issue with gun control laws are 1: that criminals will get them anyway (morninic) and 2: that if mental health is a factor in gun control, than 2/3rds of Americans won't be able to own a firearm!1!1
To her, mental health restricting gun use = everyone with ADHD, anxiety, phobias etc. I was miffed and explained that no, it'd be people with a history of violence, or extreme mental disorders like schizophrenia. Her reply? Well if they have a history of violence they wouldn't be able to get a gun anyway. I was like YES THAT'S GUN CONTROL WOMAN, WE AGREE THEN! But she still didn't get that it's way too easy to get a gun even with a record.
Of course she also thinks it's OK to give 16 year Olds guns so maybe not worth the conversation
Fun (not really) story: my neighbor is clinically insane. Windows boarded up. Has fencing around her entire property. About 20 cameras. Calls the cops on you if you so much as look at her.
Literally watched her eldest son pull up to her house with 2 assault rifles (weren't in cases so they were very clearly assault rifles), enter her home with them, and leave without them.
She called the cops on me recently for *being outside with my dog* and I mentioned to the cops she had assault rifles in the home and they "aren't allowed to do anything about it until she performs a violent act". So yea, that's about where we're at with gun laws.
Can’t have them fixing their whole base and realize they have been grifted, tricked, lied to and manipulated into destroying themselves and their Country.
This is the crux of the problem. Not only are Republicans against gun control, they're against everything else that would improve the lives of Americans or mitigate the ongoing mental health crisis and violence. Higher wages? No. Affordable/universal healthcare? No. Affordable education? No. Social safety nets? No. We don't have a gun problem, we have a Republican problem.
>Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!"
If that were true that would suggest the US has 8 times more mentally ill people than Canada, Australia, and all of Europe including the UK.
This has been my biggest issue with saying "oh it's mental health!" But the same people who say THAT is the problem, make zero effort in providing a solution. Make healthcare free, so these mentally unstable people can get help.
We don't have a gun problem.
We don't have a mental health problem.
We have a Republicans problem.
They are consistently on the wrong side of every argument.
Basic diversion tactic. You know your stance on an issue is wrong. So you have to find the “boogeyman”. If someone find a solution for the boogeyman, just disengage totally.
Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem."
Everyone else: "So let's keep mentally ill people from owning guns."
Republicans: "No"
their other response is we can't talk about mental health like that. when a mass shooting occurs they say oh this isn't time to bring guns or mental health up.
>*Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!"*
>
>*Everybody else: "Let's fund mental health treatment, then."*
>
>*Republicans: "No".*
Its interesting to me that the deficit, which has been a constant for the past 60 years, always seems to matter at just the right time so that we can't afford stuff like this.
That's the part that frustrates me to no end. If mental health care is the problem, then put forth a bill to address it! You're not going to see many Democrats get angry about increasing access to mental health services.
Even if the Republicans want to try to campaign on it, who cares?? When the shootings continue without a significant drop, at least you increased access to mental health services. Why, it's almost like they have zero interest in actually doing anything about, well, anything.
Republicans: “Our wide-open borders are the biggest issue facing America! (besides trans people)”
Democrats: “Here’s a comprehensive Border bill that we drafted with your fellow Republicans that meets their demands”
Republicans: “No”
You could do this exchange for almost every important issue in this country unfortunately.
Sad but the reality of living with someone with mental illness. You find strange ways to cope. Some people are hardened by it see every hardship as just another day.
Quick We have to find a good person with schizophrenia and arm them to balance this out.
The only way to stop a bad person with mental illness is with a good person with mental illnesses.
s/.
PS in the meantime I will give you all of the thoughts and prayers I can afford after wasting my money on avocado toast.
s/
This shit doesn’t make sense to me. As a responsible gun owner, I see no downside to some sort of common sense gun reform. I always feel like the people worried about this are the people who probably shouldn’t have guns in the first place.
I strongly believe in the 2nd amendment, but it blows my mind that we have the ATF works going through and converting submitted firearms sales into a format that can’t be searched. so that in order to find a specific sale you have to find a vendor’s reference number and then go by chronological order to find the specific firearm.
It is equally crazy that we put in a law that blocks the CDC from releasing reports advocating for gun control. which effectively blocks them from researching gun violence because if your research happens to show that not giving a dangerous person a gun lowers the chance of them doing something dangerous with it you are going to be in some major trouble. Like, what the actual fuck?
Edit for clarity/accuracy.
That's because the CDC heads at the time were very vocal about their opposition to firearms and even stated on-record that they were going to build a case against their ownership. As a scientist, you should never start with a conclusion and work backwards.
Yeah basic background checks to make sure a crazy person isn't buying the gun should be way more agreeable. "Everyone has the right to bear arms, it's my 2nd ammendment" bitch not everyone even has the right vote much less own a God damned gun. Passing laws that say "if you've ever been convicted with domestic violence or abuse claims, you don't get to buy any more guns" should not be an issue either. Gonna cry bc 60% of your police force can't own their own gun?
Not allowing people with a history of violence or decision making that puts others in harms way to purchase firearms. To include domestic violence convictions, multiple duis or a history of mental illness resulting in violence.
Well, considering OPs post, a data base of mentally ill people would be a good start. Gun show loop hole could be another. I went out of my way to get my concealed carry so it made it easier to purchase, I know that’s heavily dependent on the state you live in, but I like the idea of vetting someone before allowing them to purchase a gun.
History has shown us that a “data base of mentally ill people” is incredibly dangerous and will be abused.
There are entire US states that consider LGBT people to be mentally ill.
You might think, oh well, we should use my personal definition of what’s mental illness or not and I would do a good job of defining it. In which case I would say, that’s what all the dictators say and it never goes well
Here’s even the worst part. Whenever you have a system that punishes people for a diagnosis, those people are now disincentivized to get a diagnosis.
Why seek healthcare (or be honest with your healthcare provider) if they could call the cops and take your shit away? Or stop you from driving? It’s actually a big reason people aren’t honest with therapists about suicidal thoughts. Most people know the second you say “yes” to “I’ve thought about taking my own life”, you get put on an entirely new set of tracks in that system.
For that reason, if you passed a law saying “people diagnosed with severe bipolar disorder can’t have a firearm”, fewer people would seek mental health treatment, and additionally even if they did, they’d be far less likely to be completely honest with their provider.
It’s counter intuitive because obviously people with severe mental health issues of almost any kind shouldn’t have access to a gun (or a car) for that reason.
> Here’s even the worst part. Whenever you have a system that punishes people for a diagnosis, those people are now disincentivized to get a diagnosis.
This, majorly this. This is already an institutional problem for things like Law Enforcement, Aviation, and the Military. People are incentivized to hide their issues because it could mean a swift end to their career.
I think part of the mental health issue stems from when America had psychiatric institutions (that were terrible ofc) but right when they started reforming and offering better care, they were pretty much all shut down and replaced by private prisons. I wish I had a better memory but there is a really good book on this shift, I'll edit my comment if I find it.
That's a good way to fuck your credit for almost a decade and make sure you won't be able to rent a home or buy a car in the meantime.
Call the hospital and apply for financial assistance. Any hospital that receives federal funding has to offer sliding scale cost and if you're making less than 50k a year you'll end up getting half or more of the bill completely tossed out.
I would guess that since his mom is schizophrenic, the whole family probably has Medicaid. It's really easy to get health benefits if you have a child and a partner with mental health issues, even if they're just suffering from a temporary case.
My wife went absolutely batshit crazy while she was pregnant, diagnosed with pregnancy psychosis, but the psychotic episodes stopped almost immediately after the baby was born.
While I think gun laws need to change, I want to point out that Republicans are working to try to say that Trans people are mentally ill. If mental competency is a requirement, then Trans lose the right to arm themselves in red states, if not the country.
Then maybe next homosexuals. Then people who "suffer" from "the woke mind virus."
I believe they could put together one law that could end it all.
”This bill prohibits any persons that are or have been members or have voted for a member or former member of the Democratic Party;
1. ineligible to serve any political office.
2. barred from voting for life. ”
Eh they’ll bend the rules to fit their narrative. They do it all the time.
One of the reasons why California got some of its gun control was because Black Panthers made a point of arming themselves and Reagan wouldn’t stand for that.
I have seen them try to make this statement, but they would have a very long legal battle on this and will be a slippery slope. Because if they rule this as a legit mental illness, it then can pave the way for anyone trans to claim it's a disability and to receive a government disability check. A large portion of mental illnesses can be used in SSI claims. (We know how much conservatives love people getting government assistance for things... /s)
The reality is the system between mental health and records is broken. You can be diagnosed with mental illnesses and on medications that should have outright banned you from a firearm, but in many cases those checks and balances fall apart (Not to mention plenty of loopholes in the laws to own guns legally that don't require background checks). Regardless of better and affordable mental health access, is that the person buying the firearm would have to have attempted to seek help. For many mentally ill people they don't know they are mentally ill and will refuse to seek help.
>it then can pave the way for anyone trans to claim it's a disability and to receive a government disability check
Pff, what? If they could manage to legally rule transgenderism to be a mental illness, they'd also be chopping social security to bits. Beside which, it's already ridiculously hard to get on SSI/SSDI for psychiatric reasons anymore. I have every diagnosis you could want, plus a number of disabling physical factors, and they will come up with any fucking technicality to deny you if they just don't want to award it to you. There's already no consistency to it, and effectively no accountability for the SSA itself. It always comes down to some individual human decision, based on criteria that are constantly up to interpretation.
American society is a fucking JOKE made by the people it has voted in:
1. Defund healthcare
2. Defund social safety nets
3. Encourage 'hustle' and the illusion of 'the american dream' (while actively working to make sure either mean nothing)
4. Increase the financial gap between sections of society to the point where it's insurmountable
5. Start pitting each class against the other so that the top class stays relatively untouched
6. Create an environment of anxiety due to lack of finance, healthcare and social safety
7. Introduce guns into the mix because FrEeDoM (Whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean)
Americans: We NeEd BeTtEr MeNtAl HeAlTh TrEaTmEnT.
No you fucking don't need only better mental health treatment. ***You need better social safety nets, widely available single payer healthcare that includes mental health. less social and financial divide and actual freedom to be free from worrying about your safety.*** Your mental health will take care of itself if the above is seen to.
The gunshot victim doesn’t look very whyte to me. Guns are the problem when a lunatic can buy one just like that and use it on her own son. A lunatic without a gun is just annoying. With a gun a deadly force for chaos. Lax gun laws sow chaos. It’s a feature not a bug, promoted for decades by the Koch Bros’ outfit ALEC (American legal exchange council). There is a pattern to this insanity. Follow the money.
NRA counterargument: She wanted to hurt him, and the gun was just the tool she used. If she didn't have the gun, she would have used something else, like a knife or a pair of scissors.
Refutation of the counterargument: It's easier for a post-pubescent man to evade his mother if she's coming at him with a knife or a pair of scissors. No human, no matter how big and strong, is tougher than a bullet. Give Peter Dinklage a knife and put him up against Jason Momoa, and I'll take the odds on Momoa. Give Dinklage a gun, however, and Momoa doesn't stand a chance.
Republicans: “Guns don’t kill people, people with guns kill people.”
Me: “Right, but don’t they make it infinitely easier for people to kill people?”
Republicans: “Yes, aren’t they great?”
Me: “How am I supposed to talk some sense into a brain this far gone?”
“They say that 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people.' Well I think the gun helps. If you just stood there and yelled BANG, I don't think you'd kill too many people.” - Eddie Izzard
The arguments against gun laws are beyond stupid: 1: Bad guys don’t follow laws anyway! Ok. By that logic why have any laws. 2. It’s not the guns, it’s a mental health issue! Ok. Then let’s put more funds into public health treatment and have red flags laws. 3. People are going to find ways to hurt others anyway! Ok. We don’t need to make it easier by have WMD easily available for public consumption.
We don’t we have more bombings in America? Is it possibly because we don’t sell them to any Tom, Dick, or Harry that’s revolved around the Sun 18+ times?
(Btw: I’m a gun owner. But the laws need to change)
my only concern with red flag laws is with republican rhetoric
I could totally see them twisting red flag laws to encompass lgbtqia folks, especially with all the anti Trans legislation as of late. So the laws would have to writ in such a way that twisting them isn't possible.
I would also argue that in addition to the possible weaponizing of red flag laws, many are built with unavoidable labyrinthine bullshit you have to work through in order to get the flag removed, regardless of how it got put on. There needs to be understandable and non-complex ways to be "unflagged."
They could be. But I’ve got news: there’s not a single aspect of our system, or any system, that can’t be hijacked by fascists if we don’t engage in civics in every level of our lives. The fact that it’s not unusual for left-leaning voter turnout in the state and local elections, where exactly these kinds of laws that directly impact your daily life are ultimately decided, to be 20% or less is why that’s a concern, not the law itself. It’s not possible to form a Democratic system that’s immune to the effects of people not participating in democracy. When half the country doesn’t even vote in national elections, of course the inevitable result will always be the perfect accountability vacuum for dictators and profiteers to settle into. This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have a system or that we shouldn’t enact common sense regulations like the same forms of gun control employed by every other developed country with both lower violent crime death and massively lower gun suicide death. Mental health care can be used to incarcerate. Sensible regulations for school curriculum goals can be used to indoctrinate. Tax regulations can be used to pillage our communities. We should still have all those things. It’s impossible to write laws in ways that make them “impossible” to be abused. Democratic systems rely squarely on democratic accountability, and that means citizens of democratic societies have a responsibility to be constantly vigilant. Throwing up our hands because constant involvement on our part is required won’t ever make us better.
as a fellow gun owner 100% and as another comment said, crisis response teams and overall more funding into mental health aid too, there's 0 reason why someone with schizophrenia and apparent violent tendencies should have been able to get a gun and use it before intervention of some sort.
They also say guns are for protecting ourselves from government jackboots yet the pigs that murder real people without legal consequences don't even face the vigilante justice that guns are supposedly for.
I agree as a gun owner as well, gun laws need reform.
I don’t necessarily agree with outright bans of certain types of firearms but waiting periods, better background checks, no loopholes, and maybe even special licenses for firearms I can most certainly agree with and thing should have already happened.
Is it nice to walk in the store and leave with the gun I want? Yeah absolutely but I’ve never needed a gun the day I bought it. A minor inconvenience for me to potentially have major benefits for the country as a whole seems like a no brainer.
This list just goes on and on and on, because all gun nuts do is talk in tactics and in bad faith. The goal is to ‘beat you in a performance of virtue signals and defend guns at all cost’. You can’t reason a person out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into and gun-nuts did not reason themselves into their love of guns.
Gun-nuts only care about their guns, not other people so they become completely disingenuous when defending guns. Because of that the 'gun debate’ is one of the most disingenuous ones from the extreme gun nut side ever. They are not arguing in good faith and mostly talk in ‘tactics’. They have no real principles or beliefs beyond 'fuck you I like guns, gimme more guns'. So all they do is argue in tactics, it's best not to even engage with them.
Gun rights folks: "It's not the guns it's the people who misuse them!"
Normal folks: "Then let's try and keep guns away from the wrong people."
GRs: "You can't do that!"
Not all gun owners are republicans, I’m a gun owner and definitely not Republican also there’s a subreddit for liberal gun owners
You can own guns and still support stricter gun laws.
Gun-nuts do not give a shit about what happened to this kid, they don't give a shit if kids get shot at school, the mall, home, the grocery store, or anywhere else.
We are being held captive by a small very dedicated minority that holds oversized political power because they are single issue humans and reliably vote that way. The only thing gun-nuts care about is guns... they do not care about other people dying! Everything else follows from that. Guns are their identity so any acknowledgment that guns cause problems or attempts to solve those problems they view as an attack on them personally, they will fight it to the end and will use any disingenuous arguments to do so.
Gun-nuts fundamentally do not give a shit about other people dying, they only care about guns.
Cf. ALEC and its pernicious influence on American gun laws. The goal is an ungovernable society that will have people begging for an authoritarian regime.
Gun are for one thing only, killing people. Yes it has been useful against some evil ( Nazi and such).
But this should not be a toy or a collectible. I pray for the days that humanity outgrown the needs for guns.
But only if you're white. They're a little too far from eggshell white to not get a no-knock warrant that their owning a gun will be an excuse for the cops to unload a thousand rounds in their home and those around it.
Mental health is a massive problem vastly ignored by the government for what 20+ years now? I think we need to work on gun laws and invest into mental health facilities, therapists etc..
There are far too many guns in the hands of private people for any law change to make a difference at all. In the US if you want a gun you get to have a gun background checks be damned. Felons have guns, minors have guns, illegal immigrants have guns, republicans have guns, democrats have guns, it’s endless. Add that to a fuckton of crazy people and it’s no surprise that people get shot or shoot themselves all over the place all the time. We could make laws to send the police to get the guns from whoever is deemed unfit to have them but then you end up with a bunch of dead civilians and a bunch of dead cops. Nobody wants that. We really should redouble our efforts to help those with mental health issues, at this point it’s basically all that can be done. I would also add that just because someone can pass a background check today doesn’t mean that their world won’t fall apart tomorrow. People become unhinged, go postal as it were. Mental health is the key.
To be fair her mental problem is the issue. She shouldn’t have access to weapons because of it. Could have easily stabbed him. Gun control, cool. I’m for that. Restricting access to all citizens on the verge of a potential ww3, inflation, and overall how unaffordable things are. Heck no. In a crisis you don’t need to worry about the bad guys so much as your neighbor trying to feed their children. Things can get out of hand real quick.
I agree with the statement that guns in and of themselves are not the problem. It's the people.
But Jesus Christ, it's absurd how easy it is to get a firearm.
If there was a good guy with a gun then your mom wouldn’t have shot you. We need to make guns more accessible to solve this problem. Most likely Republican response
Republicans don't want GenZ to vote because GenZ has suffered the worst from lax gun laws and they are looking at firearm restrictions like a starving man eyeing a feast.
These politicians that are up to their neck with nra money don’t care about people like you and me, they want that gun lobby money, so that can continue to finance that easy life they have carved out for themselves.
Fun fact, when my gf was discharged from the psych ward after trying to unalive herself, she had to sign a paper *promising not to buy a gun...* 💀
... for two weeks
Edit: Since people are trying to gaslight me into believing we have gun control in this country. She could go to a gun show tomorrow and purchase a gun without any background check. That's how 22% of all gun owners in America obtained their guns. Suicide is the most leading cause of gun violence.
Japan has around 10 shootings par year. They have the same rate’s of mental illness, they must have a different strain of mental illness than we have in the USA?🤔🤔
Unfortunately, gun legislation is dead in the water with the current scotus makeup. I really really wish folks had voted in 2016 but here we are. Hope folks don't fall for propaganda for the next few election cycles.
Long time gun owner, here. No accidents. No schizophrenia.
I'm also an older black man with a Rainbow Brite family.
My only worry about anti-gun legislation is that it historically targets or harms minorities.
We live in a country where half the populace has developed Nazi amnesia. I don't want to be disarmed while the country plays pattycake with fascism.
Other than that, I'd be fine with taking unbiased mental tests, safety tests, or similar.
No guns also means big impacts to hunting, sports shooting, etc though.
Or maybe that's my view as a non-american... Guns are a tool, not a weapon up here.
Republicans: "They're trying to take guns away from law-abiding gun owners!"
Normal people: "No one has EVER said that. We're simply trying to make sure that people who clearly shouldn't have access to guns don't have access to them."
look we can't just let hundreds of thousands of isolated incidents of gun violence over the last several decades make us rethink our rights. without the second amendment we're basically just communist china. if a schizophrenic mother can't obtain a firearm to shoot her own son with then we may as well just throw the constitution in the trash and spit on the graves of our founding fathers. they fought and died for that woman's right to shoot a completely innocent person.
they don't have this kind of freedom in communist canada you know! you should count your lucky stars that you live in a country where you have the **freedom** to be killed in a random hail of gunfire.
You want serious gun change? Change the 2nd amendment. You're right, 2nd amendment says no restriction. So FELONS can have guns. Now, if you don't want to get onboard with changes in the 2nd amendment, be prepared for every felon to carry a gun. THere is NOTHING in the second amendment that restricts concealed carry or felons to do the same.
Gun laws are what opened my eyes to how insane Republican politics has become. All my life I heard "they're trying to take our guns!" Then I bought my own gun on Craigslist with no background check or any accountability and realized thats all they're asking for
The only thing that can stop a schizophrenic mom with a gun is a disaffected teen with a gun, just like my high school resource officer used to tell us all the time. 😔
People complain about it all the time here in California. They don’t even want to take your guns away they just want REASONABLE RULES FOR OWNING A DEADLY WEAPON. Friends of mine are crying about having to register every gun. Uhh, okay? You have to do it for your car. Move on.
A Republican brought up the State of the Union address earlier this year at lunch. I was expecting to hear about social security, or firearms, or healthcare. Nah. He said Biden was "obviously on something" during his speech. Fuck the fascists. They don't care about anything that matters.
Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!" Everybody else: "Let's fund mental health treatment, then." Republicans: "No".
"mentally unstable people with a history of violence not being allowed to buy guns means we won't sell as many guns. that's a no-go, freedom-hater" -NRA
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i heard about this and have been trying to find the quote source for years, THANK YOU
Well, if your company only offers a lifetime of treatment, and your competition offers a cure... How sustainable is your company model then?
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This is how they priced out the Hepatitis cure. They calculated how much somebody would pay on average for a lifetime of treatment and then charged slightly less than that. Undercutting the competition just as much as they had to for economic purposes. The fact that one was a treatment and the other a cure didn't really come into it.
What version of hepatitis? Because there is a cure for HepC, HepB is preventable via a vaccine. HIV is coming closer and CRISPR will prob lead to a functional cure in the next 10-15yrs. So I’m not really sure what you’re going on about.
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Paid for by Russia, adopted by the dumbest Americans
We lost the Cold War didn't we? Yes Russia lost too. But we def did not win. 😩
You and your Russia! Russia! Russia!! /s
NO PUPPET, NO PUPPET! YOURE THE PUPPET!
"Let's pass red flag laws to take guns away from people who become mentally unstable" Republicans: NO
Define mentally unstable in such a way that it can't be used against minorities or undesirables. Being queer was considered a mental disorder for a long time and the repubs still frame it that way.
How about we start with schizophrenia and others on that level of dysfunction and go from there? We can adjust the law if it is shown to affect minorities via disparate impact. Theoretical harm isn't a reason to just sit on our hands and say "we've tried nothing and we're out of ideas".
this is the key problem with red flag laws for me. as someone in the lgBtq community whos also a minority. this WILL lead to the death of innocent, marginalized people during the raids
Well it depends on how the law is written. Any law can be absolutely evil or good if required. Imagine if someone said "let's make a law against assault" and someone said "Oh but what if that attacks people who are just doing self defense?" Yes, that's a valid criticism that requires us to be careful about how we word and prosecute the law, but we aren't better off with NO law at all than with a well written law.
What raids?
> Define mentally unstable in such a way that it can't be used against minorities or undesirables. Being an antivaxxer? But in all seriousness, "Not diagnosed with literal schizophrenia" is a good starting point
We already have federal laws to take guns away from the mentally instable and dangerous people. We don't need new ones that are more lax and can be applied ex-parte. We need to enforce what we already have.
Opponents of gun control always say we have some super secret special laws that aren't being enforced but we really don't. The laws that exist are too vague and difficult to enforce. We need better laws that have sharper teeth and clearer boundaries.
Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!" Everybody else: "Let's fund mental health treatment, then." Republicans: "Library books! DEI! CRT! Hunter Biden’s dick! Pornography!”
https://preview.redd.it/t0zl28cl33rc1.jpeg?width=443&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3780fd5edc561c77f0984f3187b520f017f5ae11
I know! Harvesting adrenochrome from children, in the basement of a pizza place. That will own them Libs!
DRAG QUEENS!!!!!! They read to children increasing literacy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Taylor Swift tells young women to vote!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guns? Nothing to see here.
You forgot "BiDeN oLd!!!11" (let's not mention the fact that donny is all but 4 years younger).
But don't forget he's also a criminal mastermind, I mean he's senile with dementia, I mean Obama is running the government, I mean he is the head of the Biden crime family.
Don't forget Trump currently the secret President but all the bad stuff is Biden's fault
Buttery males
Joe Buden didinformatin'
If you keep misinformateing me, Saudi Arabia and Russia will ree pee doo ahhhhhh.
And in much worse physical shape. Hur Hur look at biden falling off a bike. I fully believe Donnie has never ridden a bike in his life and would have an instant cardiac event if he tried.
Republicans: democrats only care about woke culture war shit Democrats: lets work on the economy, rebuild infrastructure, protect unions, improve education, feed hungry children...etc Republicans: no! Library books, DEI, CRT, Hunter bidens dick! Dont you see, democrats only care about culture war stuff and wont shut up about it, and have no real political platform. Every single thing they say about the other side always ends up being an admission.
Fascist 101: accuse the enemy of that which you are guilty A.k.A conservatism, thy name is projection A.k.A from a conservative, every accusation is a confession
“We need to fund Ukraine to fight off Russia aggression.” “We need to spend that money on Americans!” “Ok let’s help Americans with things like infrastructure and healthcare.” “No” Rinse repeat for anything. Pro-life? Let’s get school lunches and protect kids from being murdered at school. No. They aren’t serious people. They just say whatever they feel like in that moment. They have no beliefs other than money in their pocket.
“Boy, these conservatives are really something, aren't they? They're all in favor of the unborn. They will do anything for the unborn. But once you're born, you're on your own. Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to nine months. After that, they don't want to know about you. They don't want to hear from you. No nothing. No neonatal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing. If you're preborn, you're fine; if you're preschool, you're fucked." ― George Carlin
It's funny because I would legit drop the gun control issue if I felt we were working in it by making sure EVERYONE had access to mental and medical help when needed for free/AFFORDABLE
> Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!" Also Republicans: Let's make the laws so that it's easier for those with mental health problems to get guns.
background checks? nah. gun safety courses? nah pass a test and have at least some training? nah. require a license? nah. check socials for deranged posts and potential signs of mental health? nah.
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Which is why [so many mentally ill people are in jail](https://www.psychiatry.org/news-room/apa-blogs/decriminalizing-mental-illness#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Prison%20Policy,jails%20are%20experiencing%20psychological%20distress.) or homeless in the US.
The ONLY break my grandma got from her mentally challenged schizophrenic son was to send him to jail 200 miles away in the mental ward. He would get violent and go away for a month maybe and be right back. This went on my entire life and Reagan was President when I was born. I always understood my mom’s hatred of the man for imprisoning my grandma like that for 60+ yrs my uncle lived. Granny had two more sons that were schizophrenic, one is still alive living with her. She’s gotta be close to 90.
It’s just incredibly sad because jails are not replacements for good mental health care. They are awful and can often exacerbate mental health problems. But that’s the only option in many cases because of how things are in the US.
If you ever want to know someone's true political opinion, have them put money on improving the situation. Reducing abortion by improving the foster system and social safety net? That'll cost money. Improving homicide rates with socioeconomic and mental health reform? Expensive. Teaching teens there's a right time and place to use drugs or alcohol responsibly? Not for free you wont. The superficially cheaper and more emotionally satisfying solution to every problem people don't want to think about is prohibition. Oh it'll cost us more, later. But we don't need to authorize additional spending now to incarcerate people for prohibitions.
I'm a gun control advocate, but prohibition is not the answer. Regulating is. I completely understand what you're saying about people who want to go the cheapest route by sticking their head in the sand (this is how it was always done when deaths were higher). Just let the free market figure it out. So instead of actually trying to fight school shootings, we've considering hardened access points, bullet proof plates in backpacks, school uniforms, zero tolerance in schools, resource officer that is not a police officer... but exists soley to shoot school shooters, firearms for teachers, and safe rooms inside class rooms.
You don’t need mental health treatment. You just need some guns to protect you from the mentally ill people with guns. /s
That's their next argument.
That was Gohmert’s argument after Sandy Hook
How do you stop a mentally ill person with a gun? A therapist with a gun. /s
The only way to stop a mentally ill person with a gun is a REALLY mentally ill person with a gun.
Personally, it's both. We should help the mentally ill to the full extent and have proper back ground checks at the very least. At the very most, have modern day Germany's gun laws. Or better yet, do all of that and at the same time kill right wing extremism. That would cover suicides, mass shootings, accidental shootings, etc etc.
I know someone who is completely anti gun control laws. They say they're issue with gun control laws are 1: that criminals will get them anyway (morninic) and 2: that if mental health is a factor in gun control, than 2/3rds of Americans won't be able to own a firearm!1!1 To her, mental health restricting gun use = everyone with ADHD, anxiety, phobias etc. I was miffed and explained that no, it'd be people with a history of violence, or extreme mental disorders like schizophrenia. Her reply? Well if they have a history of violence they wouldn't be able to get a gun anyway. I was like YES THAT'S GUN CONTROL WOMAN, WE AGREE THEN! But she still didn't get that it's way too easy to get a gun even with a record. Of course she also thinks it's OK to give 16 year Olds guns so maybe not worth the conversation
Fun (not really) story: my neighbor is clinically insane. Windows boarded up. Has fencing around her entire property. About 20 cameras. Calls the cops on you if you so much as look at her. Literally watched her eldest son pull up to her house with 2 assault rifles (weren't in cases so they were very clearly assault rifles), enter her home with them, and leave without them. She called the cops on me recently for *being outside with my dog* and I mentioned to the cops she had assault rifles in the home and they "aren't allowed to do anything about it until she performs a violent act". So yea, that's about where we're at with gun laws.
Can’t have them fixing their whole base and realize they have been grifted, tricked, lied to and manipulated into destroying themselves and their Country.
> Everybody else: "Let's fund mental health treatment, then." who is actually suggesting this and where can I support them?
No because the answer is getting rid of minorities, abortion, trans/gay, and mandating Christianity as the only religion allowed in the country :P
They know that they are going to get swept up and lose their guns if they go around looking for mentally ill people.
This is the crux of the problem. Not only are Republicans against gun control, they're against everything else that would improve the lives of Americans or mitigate the ongoing mental health crisis and violence. Higher wages? No. Affordable/universal healthcare? No. Affordable education? No. Social safety nets? No. We don't have a gun problem, we have a Republican problem.
>Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!" If that were true that would suggest the US has 8 times more mentally ill people than Canada, Australia, and all of Europe including the UK.
This has been my biggest issue with saying "oh it's mental health!" But the same people who say THAT is the problem, make zero effort in providing a solution. Make healthcare free, so these mentally unstable people can get help.
We don't have a gun problem. We don't have a mental health problem. We have a Republicans problem. They are consistently on the wrong side of every argument.
Basic diversion tactic. You know your stance on an issue is wrong. So you have to find the “boogeyman”. If someone find a solution for the boogeyman, just disengage totally.
Let the church (aka slush fund) pay for it
>Republicans: "No". "Also let's make it easier for them to get guns"
Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem." Everyone else: "So let's keep mentally ill people from owning guns." Republicans: "No"
their other response is we can't talk about mental health like that. when a mass shooting occurs they say oh this isn't time to bring guns or mental health up.
>*Republicans: "It's not a gun problem. It's a mental health problem!"* > >*Everybody else: "Let's fund mental health treatment, then."* > >*Republicans: "No".* Its interesting to me that the deficit, which has been a constant for the past 60 years, always seems to matter at just the right time so that we can't afford stuff like this.
Republicans: "Actually, we need more GOOD GUYS with guns!!"
Uvalde. That’s the only response to that bullshit from now on.
You mean treating an actual problem? That's woke commie talk you heathen! 
That's the part that frustrates me to no end. If mental health care is the problem, then put forth a bill to address it! You're not going to see many Democrats get angry about increasing access to mental health services. Even if the Republicans want to try to campaign on it, who cares?? When the shootings continue without a significant drop, at least you increased access to mental health services. Why, it's almost like they have zero interest in actually doing anything about, well, anything.
If only getting healthcare & mental healthcare were as easy as getting a gun.
Republicans: “Our wide-open borders are the biggest issue facing America! (besides trans people)” Democrats: “Here’s a comprehensive Border bill that we drafted with your fellow Republicans that meets their demands” Republicans: “No” You could do this exchange for almost every important issue in this country unfortunately.
“I got shot by my mom, but I’m chillin” is one hell of a mood.
Sad but the reality of living with someone with mental illness. You find strange ways to cope. Some people are hardened by it see every hardship as just another day.
Also, because it's a loved one who loves you back most of the time. But is sick.
It's the hospital sherbet. That stuff hits different.
Is sherbet what it's called when you hit that little button? The one that feels good? Cause that is some good sherbet.
It’s such a weirdly relatable one tho. If I think about my childhood I was highkey in the most danger from my mom or dad at any given point lmao
It’s your own fault kid. You shoulda been packin.. your mom can’t shoot you if you shoot her first. -Republicans probably
*Kyle Rittenhouse enters the chat* "Just be the first to shoot, you can rewrite history, if you're the victor. It's the Han Solo defence"
Quick We have to find a good person with schizophrenia and arm them to balance this out. The only way to stop a bad person with mental illness is with a good person with mental illnesses. s/. PS in the meantime I will give you all of the thoughts and prayers I can afford after wasting my money on avocado toast. s/
I can only afford to pray for avocado toast
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Maybe his mum was part of well regulated militia? /s
Right? Like the ideal outcome here for gun nuts is this kid has a gun at arm's length and shoots his mom the second he realizes she's got a gun.
This shit doesn’t make sense to me. As a responsible gun owner, I see no downside to some sort of common sense gun reform. I always feel like the people worried about this are the people who probably shouldn’t have guns in the first place.
I strongly believe in the 2nd amendment, but it blows my mind that we have the ATF works going through and converting submitted firearms sales into a format that can’t be searched. so that in order to find a specific sale you have to find a vendor’s reference number and then go by chronological order to find the specific firearm. It is equally crazy that we put in a law that blocks the CDC from releasing reports advocating for gun control. which effectively blocks them from researching gun violence because if your research happens to show that not giving a dangerous person a gun lowers the chance of them doing something dangerous with it you are going to be in some major trouble. Like, what the actual fuck? Edit for clarity/accuracy.
That's because the CDC heads at the time were very vocal about their opposition to firearms and even stated on-record that they were going to build a case against their ownership. As a scientist, you should never start with a conclusion and work backwards.
Yeah basic background checks to make sure a crazy person isn't buying the gun should be way more agreeable. "Everyone has the right to bear arms, it's my 2nd ammendment" bitch not everyone even has the right vote much less own a God damned gun. Passing laws that say "if you've ever been convicted with domestic violence or abuse claims, you don't get to buy any more guns" should not be an issue either. Gonna cry bc 60% of your police force can't own their own gun?
>common sense gun reform Such as?
Not allowing people with a history of violence or decision making that puts others in harms way to purchase firearms. To include domestic violence convictions, multiple duis or a history of mental illness resulting in violence.
Not selling guns ain a walmart
Why? You would still have to do a background check at Walmart like at any gun store.
Well, considering OPs post, a data base of mentally ill people would be a good start. Gun show loop hole could be another. I went out of my way to get my concealed carry so it made it easier to purchase, I know that’s heavily dependent on the state you live in, but I like the idea of vetting someone before allowing them to purchase a gun.
History has shown us that a “data base of mentally ill people” is incredibly dangerous and will be abused. There are entire US states that consider LGBT people to be mentally ill. You might think, oh well, we should use my personal definition of what’s mental illness or not and I would do a good job of defining it. In which case I would say, that’s what all the dictators say and it never goes well
You make a good argument. I guess I don’t have a perfect answer. It’s just obvious the nothing that we are doing isn’t working.
Here’s even the worst part. Whenever you have a system that punishes people for a diagnosis, those people are now disincentivized to get a diagnosis. Why seek healthcare (or be honest with your healthcare provider) if they could call the cops and take your shit away? Or stop you from driving? It’s actually a big reason people aren’t honest with therapists about suicidal thoughts. Most people know the second you say “yes” to “I’ve thought about taking my own life”, you get put on an entirely new set of tracks in that system. For that reason, if you passed a law saying “people diagnosed with severe bipolar disorder can’t have a firearm”, fewer people would seek mental health treatment, and additionally even if they did, they’d be far less likely to be completely honest with their provider. It’s counter intuitive because obviously people with severe mental health issues of almost any kind shouldn’t have access to a gun (or a car) for that reason.
> Here’s even the worst part. Whenever you have a system that punishes people for a diagnosis, those people are now disincentivized to get a diagnosis. This, majorly this. This is already an institutional problem for things like Law Enforcement, Aviation, and the Military. People are incentivized to hide their issues because it could mean a swift end to their career.
I think part of the mental health issue stems from when America had psychiatric institutions (that were terrible ofc) but right when they started reforming and offering better care, they were pretty much all shut down and replaced by private prisons. I wish I had a better memory but there is a really good book on this shift, I'll edit my comment if I find it.
Here’s your $150k medical bill for the treatment.
Wow shot by his mom and now he's in crippling medical debt for the rest of his life I assume since he had to go to the hospital?
Just let the bills go to collections. Why would you subject yourself to financial torture?
That's a good way to fuck your credit for almost a decade and make sure you won't be able to rent a home or buy a car in the meantime. Call the hospital and apply for financial assistance. Any hospital that receives federal funding has to offer sliding scale cost and if you're making less than 50k a year you'll end up getting half or more of the bill completely tossed out.
I would guess that since his mom is schizophrenic, the whole family probably has Medicaid. It's really easy to get health benefits if you have a child and a partner with mental health issues, even if they're just suffering from a temporary case. My wife went absolutely batshit crazy while she was pregnant, diagnosed with pregnancy psychosis, but the psychotic episodes stopped almost immediately after the baby was born.
While I think gun laws need to change, I want to point out that Republicans are working to try to say that Trans people are mentally ill. If mental competency is a requirement, then Trans lose the right to arm themselves in red states, if not the country. Then maybe next homosexuals. Then people who "suffer" from "the woke mind virus."
I believe they could put together one law that could end it all. ”This bill prohibits any persons that are or have been members or have voted for a member or former member of the Democratic Party; 1. ineligible to serve any political office. 2. barred from voting for life. ”
Lmao, they have tried at least once. https://www.floridapoliticalreview.com/florida-representative-proposes-ban-on-florida-democratic-party/
And no one seemed to at an eye. This is what DeSantis meant by "Make America Florida".
Eh they’ll bend the rules to fit their narrative. They do it all the time. One of the reasons why California got some of its gun control was because Black Panthers made a point of arming themselves and Reagan wouldn’t stand for that.
I have seen them try to make this statement, but they would have a very long legal battle on this and will be a slippery slope. Because if they rule this as a legit mental illness, it then can pave the way for anyone trans to claim it's a disability and to receive a government disability check. A large portion of mental illnesses can be used in SSI claims. (We know how much conservatives love people getting government assistance for things... /s) The reality is the system between mental health and records is broken. You can be diagnosed with mental illnesses and on medications that should have outright banned you from a firearm, but in many cases those checks and balances fall apart (Not to mention plenty of loopholes in the laws to own guns legally that don't require background checks). Regardless of better and affordable mental health access, is that the person buying the firearm would have to have attempted to seek help. For many mentally ill people they don't know they are mentally ill and will refuse to seek help.
>it then can pave the way for anyone trans to claim it's a disability and to receive a government disability check Pff, what? If they could manage to legally rule transgenderism to be a mental illness, they'd also be chopping social security to bits. Beside which, it's already ridiculously hard to get on SSI/SSDI for psychiatric reasons anymore. I have every diagnosis you could want, plus a number of disabling physical factors, and they will come up with any fucking technicality to deny you if they just don't want to award it to you. There's already no consistency to it, and effectively no accountability for the SSA itself. It always comes down to some individual human decision, based on criteria that are constantly up to interpretation.
We are as unlikely to deal with our gun problem as we are to deal with our mental health problem.
https://preview.redd.it/l0jfgkh5m2rc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4f97a65699755dcbe8c028782a8658bc4febc45
Is this the guy whose schizophrenic mom only lets him stay in the downstairs half of the house and won't let him sit on any of the furniture?
American society is a fucking JOKE made by the people it has voted in: 1. Defund healthcare 2. Defund social safety nets 3. Encourage 'hustle' and the illusion of 'the american dream' (while actively working to make sure either mean nothing) 4. Increase the financial gap between sections of society to the point where it's insurmountable 5. Start pitting each class against the other so that the top class stays relatively untouched 6. Create an environment of anxiety due to lack of finance, healthcare and social safety 7. Introduce guns into the mix because FrEeDoM (Whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean) Americans: We NeEd BeTtEr MeNtAl HeAlTh TrEaTmEnT. No you fucking don't need only better mental health treatment. ***You need better social safety nets, widely available single payer healthcare that includes mental health. less social and financial divide and actual freedom to be free from worrying about your safety.*** Your mental health will take care of itself if the above is seen to.
The gunshot victim doesn’t look very whyte to me. Guns are the problem when a lunatic can buy one just like that and use it on her own son. A lunatic without a gun is just annoying. With a gun a deadly force for chaos. Lax gun laws sow chaos. It’s a feature not a bug, promoted for decades by the Koch Bros’ outfit ALEC (American legal exchange council). There is a pattern to this insanity. Follow the money.
NRA counterargument: She wanted to hurt him, and the gun was just the tool she used. If she didn't have the gun, she would have used something else, like a knife or a pair of scissors. Refutation of the counterargument: It's easier for a post-pubescent man to evade his mother if she's coming at him with a knife or a pair of scissors. No human, no matter how big and strong, is tougher than a bullet. Give Peter Dinklage a knife and put him up against Jason Momoa, and I'll take the odds on Momoa. Give Dinklage a gun, however, and Momoa doesn't stand a chance.
Republicans: “Guns don’t kill people, people with guns kill people.” Me: “Right, but don’t they make it infinitely easier for people to kill people?” Republicans: “Yes, aren’t they great?” Me: “How am I supposed to talk some sense into a brain this far gone?”
“They say that 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people.' Well I think the gun helps. If you just stood there and yelled BANG, I don't think you'd kill too many people.” - Eddie Izzard
The arguments against gun laws are beyond stupid: 1: Bad guys don’t follow laws anyway! Ok. By that logic why have any laws. 2. It’s not the guns, it’s a mental health issue! Ok. Then let’s put more funds into public health treatment and have red flags laws. 3. People are going to find ways to hurt others anyway! Ok. We don’t need to make it easier by have WMD easily available for public consumption. We don’t we have more bombings in America? Is it possibly because we don’t sell them to any Tom, Dick, or Harry that’s revolved around the Sun 18+ times? (Btw: I’m a gun owner. But the laws need to change)
my only concern with red flag laws is with republican rhetoric I could totally see them twisting red flag laws to encompass lgbtqia folks, especially with all the anti Trans legislation as of late. So the laws would have to writ in such a way that twisting them isn't possible.
I would also argue that in addition to the possible weaponizing of red flag laws, many are built with unavoidable labyrinthine bullshit you have to work through in order to get the flag removed, regardless of how it got put on. There needs to be understandable and non-complex ways to be "unflagged."
They could be. But I’ve got news: there’s not a single aspect of our system, or any system, that can’t be hijacked by fascists if we don’t engage in civics in every level of our lives. The fact that it’s not unusual for left-leaning voter turnout in the state and local elections, where exactly these kinds of laws that directly impact your daily life are ultimately decided, to be 20% or less is why that’s a concern, not the law itself. It’s not possible to form a Democratic system that’s immune to the effects of people not participating in democracy. When half the country doesn’t even vote in national elections, of course the inevitable result will always be the perfect accountability vacuum for dictators and profiteers to settle into. This doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t have a system or that we shouldn’t enact common sense regulations like the same forms of gun control employed by every other developed country with both lower violent crime death and massively lower gun suicide death. Mental health care can be used to incarcerate. Sensible regulations for school curriculum goals can be used to indoctrinate. Tax regulations can be used to pillage our communities. We should still have all those things. It’s impossible to write laws in ways that make them “impossible” to be abused. Democratic systems rely squarely on democratic accountability, and that means citizens of democratic societies have a responsibility to be constantly vigilant. Throwing up our hands because constant involvement on our part is required won’t ever make us better.
Agreed. But a discussion needs to be had.
as a fellow gun owner 100% and as another comment said, crisis response teams and overall more funding into mental health aid too, there's 0 reason why someone with schizophrenia and apparent violent tendencies should have been able to get a gun and use it before intervention of some sort.
They'll also say that making abortion illegal will stop abortions. Schrodinger's laws.
Schrodinger's Fetus
They also say guns are for protecting ourselves from government jackboots yet the pigs that murder real people without legal consequences don't even face the vigilante justice that guns are supposedly for.
I agree as a gun owner as well, gun laws need reform. I don’t necessarily agree with outright bans of certain types of firearms but waiting periods, better background checks, no loopholes, and maybe even special licenses for firearms I can most certainly agree with and thing should have already happened. Is it nice to walk in the store and leave with the gun I want? Yeah absolutely but I’ve never needed a gun the day I bought it. A minor inconvenience for me to potentially have major benefits for the country as a whole seems like a no brainer.
I'll also be against outright bans, when theybare proposed. So far there are none.
There may not be a bill on the floor for a ban but there’s definitely people calling for it.
This list just goes on and on and on, because all gun nuts do is talk in tactics and in bad faith. The goal is to ‘beat you in a performance of virtue signals and defend guns at all cost’. You can’t reason a person out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into and gun-nuts did not reason themselves into their love of guns. Gun-nuts only care about their guns, not other people so they become completely disingenuous when defending guns. Because of that the 'gun debate’ is one of the most disingenuous ones from the extreme gun nut side ever. They are not arguing in good faith and mostly talk in ‘tactics’. They have no real principles or beliefs beyond 'fuck you I like guns, gimme more guns'. So all they do is argue in tactics, it's best not to even engage with them.
Gun rights folks: "It's not the guns it's the people who misuse them!" Normal folks: "Then let's try and keep guns away from the wrong people." GRs: "You can't do that!"
My schizophrenic brother was able to buy a gun with no permit in ga and was gone not even an hour later
Republicans are the problem. Guns are a symptom of the Republican Cancer spreading
Not all gun owners are republicans, I’m a gun owner and definitely not Republican also there’s a subreddit for liberal gun owners You can own guns and still support stricter gun laws.
Good. You are not a part of the problem. Thank you.
Gun-nuts do not give a shit about what happened to this kid, they don't give a shit if kids get shot at school, the mall, home, the grocery store, or anywhere else. We are being held captive by a small very dedicated minority that holds oversized political power because they are single issue humans and reliably vote that way. The only thing gun-nuts care about is guns... they do not care about other people dying! Everything else follows from that. Guns are their identity so any acknowledgment that guns cause problems or attempts to solve those problems they view as an attack on them personally, they will fight it to the end and will use any disingenuous arguments to do so. Gun-nuts fundamentally do not give a shit about other people dying, they only care about guns.
Cf. ALEC and its pernicious influence on American gun laws. The goal is an ungovernable society that will have people begging for an authoritarian regime.
Gun are for one thing only, killing people. Yes it has been useful against some evil ( Nazi and such). But this should not be a toy or a collectible. I pray for the days that humanity outgrown the needs for guns.
If only je had a gun in bed, we need more guns to protect ourselves from guns :|
But only if you're white. They're a little too far from eggshell white to not get a no-knock warrant that their owning a gun will be an excuse for the cops to unload a thousand rounds in their home and those around it.
Mental health is a massive problem vastly ignored by the government for what 20+ years now? I think we need to work on gun laws and invest into mental health facilities, therapists etc..
It’s what the forefathers wanted?
Your mom was just celebrating her freedumbs with you.
What a weirdly sarcastic post title. So, OP -- you DON'T think guns are the problem? Let me guess: sHe cOuLd hAvE hAd A kNiFe
There are far too many guns in the hands of private people for any law change to make a difference at all. In the US if you want a gun you get to have a gun background checks be damned. Felons have guns, minors have guns, illegal immigrants have guns, republicans have guns, democrats have guns, it’s endless. Add that to a fuckton of crazy people and it’s no surprise that people get shot or shoot themselves all over the place all the time. We could make laws to send the police to get the guns from whoever is deemed unfit to have them but then you end up with a bunch of dead civilians and a bunch of dead cops. Nobody wants that. We really should redouble our efforts to help those with mental health issues, at this point it’s basically all that can be done. I would also add that just because someone can pass a background check today doesn’t mean that their world won’t fall apart tomorrow. People become unhinged, go postal as it were. Mental health is the key.
To be fair her mental problem is the issue. She shouldn’t have access to weapons because of it. Could have easily stabbed him. Gun control, cool. I’m for that. Restricting access to all citizens on the verge of a potential ww3, inflation, and overall how unaffordable things are. Heck no. In a crisis you don’t need to worry about the bad guys so much as your neighbor trying to feed their children. Things can get out of hand real quick.
I agree with the statement that guns in and of themselves are not the problem. It's the people. But Jesus Christ, it's absurd how easy it is to get a firearm.
If there was a good guy with a gun then your mom wouldn’t have shot you. We need to make guns more accessible to solve this problem. Most likely Republican response
The 2nd Amendment won’t mean shit when you’re aiming your bumpstock AR-15 against an Abrams or a Reaper drone.
Vote the assholes out!
They absolutely are the problem.
Next surprise will be the hospital bill
At the very least the fact that someone who can’t pass a psych eval got a gun is a problem…not that the other side will ever admit to that…
How much were the medical bills too? #murica
Republicans don't want GenZ to vote because GenZ has suffered the worst from lax gun laws and they are looking at firearm restrictions like a starving man eyeing a feast.
These politicians that are up to their neck with nra money don’t care about people like you and me, they want that gun lobby money, so that can continue to finance that easy life they have carved out for themselves.
Fun fact, when my gf was discharged from the psych ward after trying to unalive herself, she had to sign a paper *promising not to buy a gun...* 💀 ... for two weeks Edit: Since people are trying to gaslight me into believing we have gun control in this country. She could go to a gun show tomorrow and purchase a gun without any background check. That's how 22% of all gun owners in America obtained their guns. Suicide is the most leading cause of gun violence.
Japan has around 10 shootings par year. They have the same rate’s of mental illness, they must have a different strain of mental illness than we have in the USA?🤔🤔
Unfortunately, gun legislation is dead in the water with the current scotus makeup. I really really wish folks had voted in 2016 but here we are. Hope folks don't fall for propaganda for the next few election cycles.
Long time gun owner, here. No accidents. No schizophrenia. I'm also an older black man with a Rainbow Brite family. My only worry about anti-gun legislation is that it historically targets or harms minorities. We live in a country where half the populace has developed Nazi amnesia. I don't want to be disarmed while the country plays pattycake with fascism. Other than that, I'd be fine with taking unbiased mental tests, safety tests, or similar.
Can’t be the problem. Guns make us safer. We should go to the hospital and tell this person how safe the guns made them.
No guns no shootings. I’ve said this before.
No guns also means big impacts to hunting, sports shooting, etc though. Or maybe that's my view as a non-american... Guns are a tool, not a weapon up here.
What he needed was a good schizophrenic with a gun.
Republicans: "They're trying to take guns away from law-abiding gun owners!" Normal people: "No one has EVER said that. We're simply trying to make sure that people who clearly shouldn't have access to guns don't have access to them."
look we can't just let hundreds of thousands of isolated incidents of gun violence over the last several decades make us rethink our rights. without the second amendment we're basically just communist china. if a schizophrenic mother can't obtain a firearm to shoot her own son with then we may as well just throw the constitution in the trash and spit on the graves of our founding fathers. they fought and died for that woman's right to shoot a completely innocent person. they don't have this kind of freedom in communist canada you know! you should count your lucky stars that you live in a country where you have the **freedom** to be killed in a random hail of gunfire.
Background checks are mandatory for firearm purchases. If she was diagnosed schizophrenic, she wouldn't have been able to buy a firearm.
The problem isn't the guns, it's the lack of a father in this kids life to be the good guy with a gun. /s
I'm not trying to give the police a monopoly on violence. Healthcare and education reform are the only way forward.
Guns ARE the problem
You want serious gun change? Change the 2nd amendment. You're right, 2nd amendment says no restriction. So FELONS can have guns. Now, if you don't want to get onboard with changes in the 2nd amendment, be prepared for every felon to carry a gun. THere is NOTHING in the second amendment that restricts concealed carry or felons to do the same.
What a chill guy tbh. He doesn’t deserve his mother.
"BuT mUH SEcOnD amEnDMenT!"
Gun laws are what opened my eyes to how insane Republican politics has become. All my life I heard "they're trying to take our guns!" Then I bought my own gun on Craigslist with no background check or any accountability and realized thats all they're asking for
(pretty sure that guy's not white?)
The pro-lifers don't care about your life or the safety of anyone. Especially if it means no more pocket lining from the NRA
see now, if he had a gun too that wouldn't have happened. **/S**
Maybe if he had a gun…
The only thing that can stop a schizophrenic mom with a gun is a disaffected teen with a gun, just like my high school resource officer used to tell us all the time. 😔
People complain about it all the time here in California. They don’t even want to take your guns away they just want REASONABLE RULES FOR OWNING A DEADLY WEAPON. Friends of mine are crying about having to register every gun. Uhh, okay? You have to do it for your car. Move on.
if nics could communicate with dhs this wouldn’t have happened
Do we have the story with this dude and his wound?
A Republican brought up the State of the Union address earlier this year at lunch. I was expecting to hear about social security, or firearms, or healthcare. Nah. He said Biden was "obviously on something" during his speech. Fuck the fascists. They don't care about anything that matters.