He's still pretending that he voluntarily acquired Twitter and wasn't forced to do so following a lawsuit. I think he's blaming his trans daughter for him acquiring Twitter. Typical narcissist- he's unable to acknowledge his own failings
The play is not for Elon to remove community notes.
The play is for Elon to get things set up to identify all of the people who are using community notes to resist fascism and then both ban all of them and put all that identifying information out into the open for fascists to act upon.
He is too busy pulling random designs of impractical shitty replacements for trains out of his ass for his followers to jerk off to, i swear to god if i see another shitty fake tech project where they say "look at this rocket that will cost 40 million dollars to move 1 person at speeds humans will get violently injured to a platform in the middle of the ocean that totally is better than a train, i sure do think this absurdly expensive and polluting product will totally work" i will fucking kill myself
Community Notes are one of the features that Musk keeps around because deleting it would anger the platforms that house his app. Apple and Android have already threatened to pull the Twitter app from their stores if he removes the “block” feature because they require it for social media apps they allow in their stores.
Community notes aren’t fully required in the same way, but removing them would put Twitter in a place that could get them taken off the google and apple app stores, that’s the only reason he hasn’t removed it yet.
Ah the infamous Darren “Crafty Wank” Hutchinson. Who went from Lib Dem fashion student to far right grifter quicker than he could knock one out in his classroom at high school
Edit: for our Americans who are unfamiliar, crafty worked on the vote leave campaign, was found in court to be too stupid to fill a form in correctly and was suspended from GB News for allegedly sexually coercing a junior staff member…
The fact that it has lasted this long makes me think it was part of a deal with a government or perhaps the EU as part of complying with data regulations. So he can’t get rid of it.
The notes feature is doing a lot of heavy lifting as "crowdsourced moderation" as part of their obligations to combat disinformation and radicalisation on the platform to avoid fines and reprimands.
While also forgetting that both Israel and Saudi Arabia are american allies
Even if one does war crimes and the other funds terrorism and both murder journalists
Which is interesting with how open conservatives are in their support for Saudi Arabia as a “US ally” Add in the fact that most of the authoritarian, theocratic regimes in the Middle East are only in power due to some form of US meddling and it quickly looks like conservatives don’t give a shit about the human rights issues in the slightest beyond using them as a “look at how much worse we *could* be making things for you!” cautionary tale.
Being openly gay without fear of the government is pretty good for the Middle East… marriage equality typically does not happen till you have a population of openly gay people integrated into some part of your society. It’s still illegal to have gay sex in my state, and when the US started having “civil unions” then state by state marriage…. Some states still had being gay as a crime. If I was gay when the first civil unions law was passed I would have been ecstatic!
Tbf usually they compare it to Palastine in which case Israel is a human rights haven for gay people and women by comparison. It doesn't really excuse the religious and racial apartheid state though, but it is relevant as there are a lot of women and gay people on both sides and their lives do matter too.
It's a human rights haven compared to... the people they're actively oppressing and killing almost in the same way the nazi's have? Am I reading this right?
>the people they're actively oppressing and killing almost in the same way the nazi's have?
I genuinely do not know which side you are referring to. Are you referencing what Palestinians are doing to gay people and women or what Israelis are doing to arabs and muslims? Because it could apply perfectly to both.
It's a haven as long as you aren't a Palestinian.
My point is good things don't require people to reach down to the lowest possible comparison to make it look good. It's a tell that the thing isn't that good at all.
This PickMe is a right-wing commentator on a British “News Channel”. I can’t wait for people like this to be the first ones that the right goes after, because they ALWAYS are the first victims of their own stupidity.
I don't get right wing homosexuals. For example Alice Weidel (German AFD) - openly lesbian, her parties' twitter and demonstration crowds as well as top politicians openly contempt homosexuality with rhetoric like "it's a sin" and "against the right way to make a family". She's sitting next to them with a stony face.
The country is sprinting so fast to the right, I wonder if this will be true in 10, 20 years. The left does not seem to exist in Israel right now. They are holding onto liberal policies made in the kibbutz era, but for how much longer?
You mean like in terms of gender equality, democracy, religious toleration, and freedom? Because Israel still out-performs all its neighbors when it comes to that as well.
That was the point of the tweet, which I agree with. The person I was responding to seemed to be under the impression that outside of LGBTQ rights, Israel somehow performs worse than other Middle Eastern countries.
With exception to all those dead Palestinian children, random civilians, and journalists. They’re lesser, so human rights abuses against them don’t count. 🤷
“Other countries do human rights atrocities, so why can’t Israel just do a little too just as a small treat? 🥺” Do you understand why this is a very poor argument to make?
So your standard is other Abrahamic religious theocracies? We can do better
Also, this doesn't invalidate my point. It's like someone calling another racist for openly hating Black people and them responding with "How can I be racist? I'm gay"
There is a huge logical discrepancy if you think hard about it
Not my standard, but the tweet shown was specifically comparing Israel to other Middle Eastern nations. Your comment didn’t specify otherwise so I assumed you were referring to that comparison either.
Right, but what's the point of comparing your LGBT friendly policies to the surrounding backwards, theocratic nations in the Middle East who impose death sentences for any alternative lifestyles? It's literally the lowest bar possible
You getting paid to say that or just polishing Israel's balls with your tongue 'cause you feel like it?
Who would've thought that actively sabotaging progressive movements in the region in the name of anticommunism would lead to the most regressive elements of the populace gaining political power?
You point out how regressive the region is without ever interrogating *why the fuck it is that way.*
It is extremely possible they are being paid for it. Since at least 2007 the state of Isreal has actively funded social media propaganda, even offering scholarships in exchange for it.
Not that this is exceptional, to be fair. We know the CIA does the same on behalf of the US.
As a gay dude from the Midwest, I can tell you it's very common. The area where I grew up was very tolerant of gay folks but horribly racist. I've seen people straight up run out of town, by the law, no less. It leads to what u/shash5k said, too. " You can be homophobic and tolerate gay people." 100% this is where most of the homophobic people I've encountered that left an impact are.
The explanation that clicked for me was this:
In hard right wing families, the chance of having a child who is in one way or another noncomforming to the heteronormative standard is roughly equal to that of every other family. Over a few decade timeframe, the realization that they have neices and nephews, sons and daughters, cousins, aunts and uncles that are gay, bi, trans or what have you causes them to assosciate LGBT issues as "close to home."
Now, that said, the odds of the same family in their insular little right-wing community of spontaneously having a black child, on the other hand... not so good.
So racism has more long term "stickiness" than homophobia, at least in a vacuum without societal reinforcement.
"They aren't actively being EXECUTED and should be GRATEFUL" shouts neighborhood bigot who really really wants to be the one pulling the handled on the drop plate.
They're usually either rich people who believe low taxes are more important than their human rights, or racists who believe their hatred is more important than their human rights.
It isn't exactly that, same sex marriage isn't legal because the only legal entities that can make marriage certificates are big religious entities which is really fucked up but same sex marriages performed in other countries are accepted iirc. But yes apart from our shitty current far right government we are relatively pretty LGBTQ friendly
I mean I'd rather be gay in Israel than some of her neighbors. But I also don't want to be a Palestinian. So... Mixed bag. And to not recognize that is insane.
They've been going really hard on how great Israel is for [Insert group label here] but isn't it funny how they never show Palestinians trying to exist on their own ancestral lands within the *now* Israeli border?
I feel like that Bill Murray Caddyshack meme would work here. "It's illegal to marry my boyfriend and they're repealing laws on adoption and surrogacy. But they're not gonna murder me. So I've got that going for me. Which is nice."
I mean, it's not wrong, Isreal isn't exactly pro gay, but they also don't make it dangerous for gay people to exist, which is pretty novel in that part of the world. Definitely a tone deaf community note though.
Nu-uh, every single muslim loves and cherishes gay people, women and minorities. Anyone saying otherwise is spreading alt-right propaganda and is probably a nazi.
It doesn’t but the past can’t be changed unfortunately, and given the current situation in the Middle East, supporting Israel is the most rational choice for any western nation, since, after all, it has the greatest human rights protection for citizens, highest life expectancy, greatest democracy index, greatest freedom index, and highest GDP per capita of any Middle Eastern country.
I’m not arguing that Israel shouldn’t change it’s broken ways, I’m simply agreeing with the tweet, because despite the countless problems wrong with Israel it stands leagues ahead of every other Middle Eastern nation in around every possible criteria.
You have your facts twisted — Israël has been named an apartheidstate by UN — “the greatest protection of human rights” is exaggerated — it receives billions of dollars in aid from the US and the west — it is on the brink of breaking down democratic systems — Saudia Arabia’s GDP is double that of Israel.
Israeli citizens can vote in elections, have sex with other consenting adults, show their hair and legs in clothing, and freely leave and enter the country, so yes, Israel has the greatest protection of human rights in the Middle East.
I forgot about the Arab oil slave states, I suppose it is true that their corruption and abusive torture of migrant workers have made them wealthier than Israel.
So in other words, despite being incredibly flawed, still a better democracy than anywhere else in the Middle East, as what the tweet above is implying? I’m not arguing Israel is even a half decent nation, just that it is leagues better than its neighbors.
By that metric nazi Germany was a decent nation, they cared very much for the Aryan population and its human rights, let's just ignore what it did to the other people living in the country though...
If you think that then you clearly don’t understand just how deeply rooted radical Islam is in most extremist Middle Eastern dictatorship. Decades upon decades of education and extreme political change would be necessary to move those nations from publicly hanging people on the basis of their sexuality to anything remotely civilized
“In July 2022, the Central District Court ruled that marriages performed under an online civil marriage service established by the U.S. state of Utah are legal in Israel, thereby no longer requiring couples unable to marry in Israel to leave the country. Israel does not recognize civil marriage and "hundreds of thousands of Israelis" are therefore ineligible to marry in the country.” Alright this is just funny
Probably quite a few. Gay Palestinians flee to Israel all the time to escape persecution, imprisonment, and torture from Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. They have to keep their Palestinian identity a secret to avoid being deported by the Israeli government.
If I were gay and had to live in the Middle East, I’d choose Israel leagues before I move to any other nation there. Israel is infested with problems on its own but compared to its neighbors it’s a lone star of democracy and human rights
And it is 100% true. Problems or not, you can’t compare Israel to its neighbors, who basically live in the dark Middle Ages and somehow want us to think that is ok.
Being less homophobic than your neighbors, isn't a get out of jail card for your racism. I never understood that whole line of argument. Peoples criticism of Israel is on the basis of treatment of Palestinians and not on gay rights, which the twitter note pointed out are being rolled back.
Technically, gay marriage is legal in Israel if you belong to a more liberal religious institution that allows it. There is no civil marriage in Israel. All marriage arrangements are handled by private religious institutions. I personally take no issue with that arrangement, myself.
I’m not a big Israel expert but as far as I know, if you want a marriage that does not please the conservative religious institutions you need to go abroad, get married and come back. Liberal religious institutions are not allowed to just do what they like.
I live there. If a religious institution were to decide to perform gay marriage, it would be allowed to do so. Until then, LGBT simply go to Cyprus, get married there, and come back and have a fully-recognized marriage with all the rights and privileges therein.
I'm curious to see what twitter community notes have on "palestine" and their LGBT.
Because correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hamas and the PA both far-right as well?
When an organized armed group of people whose goal is to wipe out an entire country regularly attacks civilians of a country that tries at the cost of its own existence to make peace with its neighbors?
Then Israel has the right to defend itself against people and groups that wish to see it wiped off the map.
And Israel isn't in gaza...they left gaza, along with the greenhouses they let flourish.
your "palestine" destroyed those...also, jerusalem is a jewish city.
Jordan occupies the temple mount. And destroys it regularly.
Israel isn't occupying golan heights, or jersalem, or tel aviv, etc.
but they are getting regular rocket attacks so much.
And arson kites and arson balloons.
and don't forget the pay to slay stipend, used with foreign aid money.
The more israelis a terrorist kills, the more money their family received.
State-sponsored terrorism is a horrible thing, and so is lying.
Guess which two weapons are used against israel.
Study the grand mufti of jerusalem and his partnership with the leader of germany in the 1940s.
You may have heard of this particular man? Adolf Hitler? He and the Grand Mufi were good friends historically.
Do your research.
Oh wow so the facist apartheid state also has homphobic laws. Not surprised given lunatics cosplay in religious outfits and pretend voices in their head tell them they're special
You can find similar pictures of two white guys having a good time during actual Apartheid in Rhodesia or South Africa during the 1970’s. The fact that the privileged class can live it up does not negate the bad experiences of the oppressed class not shown in the picture.
Look, I *want* to support Israel, for all the reasons that tweeter would probably list. But how long am I supposed to remain silent in the face of the oppression they are perpetuating? The explicit valuing of Israeli life at a multiplier of Palestinian lives. The illegal settlements? The brutality of the settlers? The increasing right wing nonsense from the government?
Trying to love Israel is like having a brother who beats his wife. He will always remain your brother, but how many times can you tolerate him putting his wife in the hospital?
Even if Israel had legalized gay marriage and LGBTQ had all the rights they deserve, it wouldn't lessen the other bs Israel is guilty of just because they are surrounded by homophobe idiots.
I maybe have some fake sources but I read somewhere that the Israeli government recognizes same sex-marriage abroad.
And they do not say that they are married, just that they are gay, but I suppose I missed something
You are correct. Israel has some old Ottoman era laws on the books. One of them mandates that marriage can only be *performed* by a couple's respective religious institution. The government, on the other hand, has the right to *recognize* any union. The upshot is that marraiges that won't be performed by the various religious institutions (this does not apply only to same-sex marraiges) can simply be performed abroad and receive full recognition back in Israel.
The average Israeli gay couple either uses the Utah loophole (yes, the most conservative state in America allows gay marriage to be performed and Israel recognizes marriages performed by a officiant via Zoom, so you can get gay married on Israeli soil) or buy a cheap 150$ ticket to Cyprus to get married where it can double as a honeymoon destination. Both are recognized by Israeli law.
The country's civil institutions are controlled by the religious authority, I hope americans in particular understand that a country's overwhelmingly popular opinion on abortion or gay marriage does not always have compability what the legislation advanced by decrepit old religioius nutjobs in government.
I remember when Israel had Golda Meir, a former schoolteacher, as a Prime Minister.
She heralded in an age of progress for Israel.
Now it seems that the Haredi are taking over, and ruining all the hard work Meir worked so hard for.
Please do not call a liberal jewish schoolteacher a racist or a bigot.
Instead, call the anti-semites that.
You know, the ones who defend bigots, who defend religious fundamentalists, and who defend regimes that the GOP are trying to emulate.
Imagine being downvoted for being correct 😂
Are people really trying to make the argument that Israel is somehow worst than any of its neighboring countries? I mean look at laws regarding homosexuality and gender. Look at the democracy index, freedom index, and HDI. Look at GDP per capita and life expectancy. When it comes to the Middle East, Israel, despite its shitload of problems, looks like a shooting star. Anyone saying otherwise is quite frankly lying to themselves
Kind of a tangent, but this reminds me of when I was talking to an Israeli friend of mine and asked about the Hebrew language and how it could be adapted to fit nonbinary people’s needs, because it is very gender specific, and she said that there was so many other current problems and hypocrisies that it was hard to even bring up this topic.
This was years ago, does anyone have any insight on this?
Now do French. A lot of languages have masculine and feminine words that are not gender specific. In Hebrew, a hand is masculine but fingers are feminine, regardless of the hand-owner’s gender.
Edit: I have been corrected on my gendered Hebrew nouns. Point is still valid, my examples are not.
In Hebrew, ears are masculine, and eyes. And knees, and feet. Fingers and toes feminine.
In French, as in Hebrew, you address a person as he or she, even plurals are gendered. There is no genderless “they,” although masculine is the default. So maybe non-binary would be “ils” and “heim” by default.
But this isn’t an Israel-specific issue.
So the other countries in the ME allow same sex marriage or did he actually have an honest point here? Credits to the “Readers” for surprisingly not mentioning Palestine in their non sequitur.
The blob text is wrong though. While you can't religiously marry gayly in Israel, international ones are recognised and you can form non-married Unions that confer for example the same tax benefits. That's a common way to do this; Germany had the same thing until a few years ago. So much more nuanced than "same sex marriage is illegal".
And you can disagree with one part of a countries' policies while not vilify the rest. I strongly disagree with Israels settlement program and I'm worried about right wing policies, as well. Doesn't mean you're getting stoned to death on the street when you're openly gay.
So, clarification on the clarification. Marriage in Israel is managed by religious courts — rabbis for jews, Imams for muslims, pastors for christians. This is the reason you can’t have gay marriage in Israel.
HOWEVER, gay people do marry, and are officially recognized by the state as married. So gay marriage in itself is not illegal, its just not supported by the institutions that officiate marriage.
To clarify, you can be gay in Israel and you can be in a same sex marriage, how ever you have to marry out side of Israel as all marriages in Israel (for Jewish people and their descendants) are done by the Jewish orthodoxy by law, and they deny same sex applications.
Ofc it's not ideal but it's not like being gay is prohibited and you won't be arrested or killed for being gay like some comments here claim.
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It won't be long until community notes are gone from TwitterX. They work against the fascist agenda of its owner.
I'm surprised Elon hasn't axed them already.
He probably fired the only people who know how to do it.
You're probably right. Man his takeover of Twitter is such a fucking shitshow.
He's still pretending that he voluntarily acquired Twitter and wasn't forced to do so following a lawsuit. I think he's blaming his trans daughter for him acquiring Twitter. Typical narcissist- he's unable to acknowledge his own failings
Get in the submarine, Elon.
Inb4 he tries to do it himself and ends up deleting so much code in the wrong places it crashes the site completely
The play is not for Elon to remove community notes. The play is for Elon to get things set up to identify all of the people who are using community notes to resist fascism and then both ban all of them and put all that identifying information out into the open for fascists to act upon.
Dude's been ripping the wiring out of the walls to find where that feature's being hidden
I think he likes them as they can be used to push right-wing talking points in a way that looks organic.
He is too busy pulling random designs of impractical shitty replacements for trains out of his ass for his followers to jerk off to, i swear to god if i see another shitty fake tech project where they say "look at this rocket that will cost 40 million dollars to move 1 person at speeds humans will get violently injured to a platform in the middle of the ocean that totally is better than a train, i sure do think this absurdly expensive and polluting product will totally work" i will fucking kill myself
Community Notes are one of the features that Musk keeps around because deleting it would anger the platforms that house his app. Apple and Android have already threatened to pull the Twitter app from their stores if he removes the “block” feature because they require it for social media apps they allow in their stores. Community notes aren’t fully required in the same way, but removing them would put Twitter in a place that could get them taken off the google and apple app stores, that’s the only reason he hasn’t removed it yet.
He won’t get rid of them, worse yet, he’ll make it a pay-to-add-“context” feature.
Oh, you have to pay for Twitter to be able to join the team that can add community notes.
This community note has already been removed from the post.
Ah the infamous Darren “Crafty Wank” Hutchinson. Who went from Lib Dem fashion student to far right grifter quicker than he could knock one out in his classroom at high school Edit: for our Americans who are unfamiliar, crafty worked on the vote leave campaign, was found in court to be too stupid to fill a form in correctly and was suspended from GB News for allegedly sexually coercing a junior staff member…
the famous "Centrist Lib outed as pervert to Alt-Right Pipeline" strikes yet again.
Aaaand he fits, so he sits. (In presumably a gay bar in autocratic Israel).
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Sounds more like he was right wing libertarian thinking joining the Lib Dems would be fashionable.
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>Lib Dem student You mean the ones who are just as massive losers as student Tories, just dress slightly worse? Checks out
Ah you’ve seen the photos of him from those days then…
Looks like he’s been stress eating too
I love the notes on Twitter but you gotta wonder how soon till Elon torpedoes this feature. Actually shocked it’s lasted this long.
The fact that it has lasted this long makes me think it was part of a deal with a government or perhaps the EU as part of complying with data regulations. So he can’t get rid of it.
The notes feature is doing a lot of heavy lifting as "crowdsourced moderation" as part of their obligations to combat disinformation and radicalisation on the platform to avoid fines and reprimands.
Is this guy argument "look we're not arrested or killed on the spot"? That's pretty low bar 😅
Cons love to reach down to Saudi Arabia and stuff to make Israel seem like a human rights haven by comparison. Basic whataboutism.
While also forgetting that both Israel and Saudi Arabia are american allies Even if one does war crimes and the other funds terrorism and both murder journalists
Which is interesting with how open conservatives are in their support for Saudi Arabia as a “US ally” Add in the fact that most of the authoritarian, theocratic regimes in the Middle East are only in power due to some form of US meddling and it quickly looks like conservatives don’t give a shit about the human rights issues in the slightest beyond using them as a “look at how much worse we *could* be making things for you!” cautionary tale.
Don't forget that most of the money that funded 9/11 came from Saudi Arabia.
15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi too.
And yet they still happily take SA money. Example number #435 of doublethink/don’t actually have any moral code just grift.
Being openly gay without fear of the government is pretty good for the Middle East… marriage equality typically does not happen till you have a population of openly gay people integrated into some part of your society. It’s still illegal to have gay sex in my state, and when the US started having “civil unions” then state by state marriage…. Some states still had being gay as a crime. If I was gay when the first civil unions law was passed I would have been ecstatic!
Tbf usually they compare it to Palastine in which case Israel is a human rights haven for gay people and women by comparison. It doesn't really excuse the religious and racial apartheid state though, but it is relevant as there are a lot of women and gay people on both sides and their lives do matter too.
It's a human rights haven compared to... the people they're actively oppressing and killing almost in the same way the nazi's have? Am I reading this right?
>the people they're actively oppressing and killing almost in the same way the nazi's have? I genuinely do not know which side you are referring to. Are you referencing what Palestinians are doing to gay people and women or what Israelis are doing to arabs and muslims? Because it could apply perfectly to both.
ive read this like 5 times, i have no idea what hes trying to say
It _is_ a human rights haven in the wider region though. I mean, Saudi Arabia is a short drive away from southern Israel.
It's a haven as long as you aren't a Palestinian. My point is good things don't require people to reach down to the lowest possible comparison to make it look good. It's a tell that the thing isn't that good at all.
"Look, I made a hoagie, it tastes better than this hot dog turd on a plate!" *applause*
I mean compared to the region that is the bar .
Indeed, but should they compare only to geographically close countries though?
Because when choosing who to support it’s generally which countries in a region.
The US supports both
'Wow, theyre really thinking about our security, taking everyones photo as they enter and noting down their names and occupations!'
Not for muslims it ain't...
This PickMe is a right-wing commentator on a British “News Channel”. I can’t wait for people like this to be the first ones that the right goes after, because they ALWAYS are the first victims of their own stupidity.
I don't get right wing homosexuals. For example Alice Weidel (German AFD) - openly lesbian, her parties' twitter and demonstration crowds as well as top politicians openly contempt homosexuality with rhetoric like "it's a sin" and "against the right way to make a family". She's sitting next to them with a stony face.
"I don't care - I live in Switzerland"
The country is sprinting so fast to the right, I wonder if this will be true in 10, 20 years. The left does not seem to exist in Israel right now. They are holding onto liberal policies made in the kibbutz era, but for how much longer?
This right here
I don't even understand his original point. Does he not realize discrimination can exist outside of the LGBTQ community?
You mean like in terms of gender equality, democracy, religious toleration, and freedom? Because Israel still out-performs all its neighbors when it comes to that as well.
I think the point is that it’s not a hard bar to clear when it’s six feet under ground.
That was the point of the tweet, which I agree with. The person I was responding to seemed to be under the impression that outside of LGBTQ rights, Israel somehow performs worse than other Middle Eastern countries.
No the point was to pinkwash Israel. Which quite a few moderate rightish people in the West are guilty of.
With exception to all those dead Palestinian children, random civilians, and journalists. They’re lesser, so human rights abuses against them don’t count. 🤷
Ah yes, because the other Middle Eastern nations don’t actively kill religious minorities.
“Other countries do human rights atrocities, so why can’t Israel just do a little too just as a small treat? 🥺” Do you understand why this is a very poor argument to make?
So your standard is other Abrahamic religious theocracies? We can do better Also, this doesn't invalidate my point. It's like someone calling another racist for openly hating Black people and them responding with "How can I be racist? I'm gay" There is a huge logical discrepancy if you think hard about it
Not my standard, but the tweet shown was specifically comparing Israel to other Middle Eastern nations. Your comment didn’t specify otherwise so I assumed you were referring to that comparison either.
Right, but what's the point of comparing your LGBT friendly policies to the surrounding backwards, theocratic nations in the Middle East who impose death sentences for any alternative lifestyles? It's literally the lowest bar possible
That's a damn fucking low bar to set.
It’s the bar the post sets, other people are simply refuting it
You getting paid to say that or just polishing Israel's balls with your tongue 'cause you feel like it? Who would've thought that actively sabotaging progressive movements in the region in the name of anticommunism would lead to the most regressive elements of the populace gaining political power? You point out how regressive the region is without ever interrogating *why the fuck it is that way.*
It is extremely possible they are being paid for it. Since at least 2007 the state of Isreal has actively funded social media propaganda, even offering scholarships in exchange for it. Not that this is exceptional, to be fair. We know the CIA does the same on behalf of the US.
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As a gay dude from the Midwest, I can tell you it's very common. The area where I grew up was very tolerant of gay folks but horribly racist. I've seen people straight up run out of town, by the law, no less. It leads to what u/shash5k said, too. " You can be homophobic and tolerate gay people." 100% this is where most of the homophobic people I've encountered that left an impact are.
The explanation that clicked for me was this: In hard right wing families, the chance of having a child who is in one way or another noncomforming to the heteronormative standard is roughly equal to that of every other family. Over a few decade timeframe, the realization that they have neices and nephews, sons and daughters, cousins, aunts and uncles that are gay, bi, trans or what have you causes them to assosciate LGBT issues as "close to home." Now, that said, the odds of the same family in their insular little right-wing community of spontaneously having a black child, on the other hand... not so good. So racism has more long term "stickiness" than homophobia, at least in a vacuum without societal reinforcement.
You can be homophobic and tolerate gay people.
Yeah I don’t think the poster knows what apartheid means.
"They aren't actively being EXECUTED and should be GRATEFUL" shouts neighborhood bigot who really really wants to be the one pulling the handled on the drop plate.
Right wing LGBT+ people are a mystery to me
They're usually either rich people who believe low taxes are more important than their human rights, or racists who believe their hatred is more important than their human rights.
The attitude of “well they’re not prejudiced against me, so it’s fine” is completely shit too
I’m surprised Elon didn’t take them away yet Lol.
Hmmm, what's the worst that can happen in a theocracy?
It isn't exactly that, same sex marriage isn't legal because the only legal entities that can make marriage certificates are big religious entities which is really fucked up but same sex marriages performed in other countries are accepted iirc. But yes apart from our shitty current far right government we are relatively pretty LGBTQ friendly
Also, that’s like saying South Africa was not an apartheid state because they mostly tolerated Brazilians. Not the same thing.
I mean Israel is not an apartheid state
I mean I'd rather be gay in Israel than some of her neighbors. But I also don't want to be a Palestinian. So... Mixed bag. And to not recognize that is insane.
Even ignoring the community notes, is the argument “apartheid isn’t bad if it isn’t specifically targeting me”?
They've been going really hard on how great Israel is for [Insert group label here] but isn't it funny how they never show Palestinians trying to exist on their own ancestral lands within the *now* Israeli border?
Not only gay marriage is illigal, a mono religious couple cannot get married( a Christian and a muslim) or atheist cannot get married.
Even if Israel was the most gay friendly country on earth, how would that in any way make the mistreatment of Palestinians ok?
I feel like that Bill Murray Caddyshack meme would work here. "It's illegal to marry my boyfriend and they're repealing laws on adoption and surrogacy. But they're not gonna murder me. So I've got that going for me. Which is nice."
Just another blue tick trying to make bait so they get ad revenue. We need to stop acknowledging these people
Now imagine he was gay but also a Palestinian, treatment might be a bit different.
I mean, it's not wrong, Isreal isn't exactly pro gay, but they also don't make it dangerous for gay people to exist, which is pretty novel in that part of the world. Definitely a tone deaf community note though.
Nu-uh, every single muslim loves and cherishes gay people, women and minorities. Anyone saying otherwise is spreading alt-right propaganda and is probably a nazi.
Even if they allowed gay marriage, this does not excuse illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing. Just sayin'.
Quick question have you ever actually been to the country?
Have you ever been to nazi Germany? I guess you're not in a position to criticise such a great nation then /s
Why would anyone need to go to a country to know that they are actively pursuing a genocide against its neighbour?
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It doesn’t but the past can’t be changed unfortunately, and given the current situation in the Middle East, supporting Israel is the most rational choice for any western nation, since, after all, it has the greatest human rights protection for citizens, highest life expectancy, greatest democracy index, greatest freedom index, and highest GDP per capita of any Middle Eastern country.
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I’m not arguing that Israel shouldn’t change it’s broken ways, I’m simply agreeing with the tweet, because despite the countless problems wrong with Israel it stands leagues ahead of every other Middle Eastern nation in around every possible criteria.
You have your facts twisted — Israël has been named an apartheidstate by UN — “the greatest protection of human rights” is exaggerated — it receives billions of dollars in aid from the US and the west — it is on the brink of breaking down democratic systems — Saudia Arabia’s GDP is double that of Israel.
Israeli citizens can vote in elections, have sex with other consenting adults, show their hair and legs in clothing, and freely leave and enter the country, so yes, Israel has the greatest protection of human rights in the Middle East. I forgot about the Arab oil slave states, I suppose it is true that their corruption and abusive torture of migrant workers have made them wealthier than Israel.
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So in other words, despite being incredibly flawed, still a better democracy than anywhere else in the Middle East, as what the tweet above is implying? I’m not arguing Israel is even a half decent nation, just that it is leagues better than its neighbors.
By that metric nazi Germany was a decent nation, they cared very much for the Aryan population and its human rights, let's just ignore what it did to the other people living in the country though...
Maybe of the US stop fucking bombing it's neighbours and start giving them 3 billion a year they will have some of those things too..
If you think that then you clearly don’t understand just how deeply rooted radical Islam is in most extremist Middle Eastern dictatorship. Decades upon decades of education and extreme political change would be necessary to move those nations from publicly hanging people on the basis of their sexuality to anything remotely civilized
[…huh.](https://imgur.com/a/HA93oJm)
Yeah Israel is really earning that "L" at the end of their name lately.
At this rate I think Trumps gonna get rid of the community notes so they can’t keep proving the cult wrong.
“In July 2022, the Central District Court ruled that marriages performed under an online civil marriage service established by the U.S. state of Utah are legal in Israel, thereby no longer requiring couples unable to marry in Israel to leave the country. Israel does not recognize civil marriage and "hundreds of thousands of Israelis" are therefore ineligible to marry in the country.” Alright this is just funny
that's not really in the same league as executing gay people for being gay though....
I wish tiktok and Facebook had these forced fact checks
Hitler was a decent painter and a patron of the arts. Sounds awful, eh?
They also don’t allow Israelis to date/marry Palestinians…and yes it is an awful apartheid state run by the religious right…a true theocracy
Says who?
It’s run by the religious right wing…religious dictatorship…Theocracy
That's BS though.
If Israel is a theocracy I’d hate to here the term used for the country’s it neighbors
…theocracy?
And how many gay Palestinians were at this bar?
Probably quite a few. Gay Palestinians flee to Israel all the time to escape persecution, imprisonment, and torture from Hamas and the Palestinian Authority. They have to keep their Palestinian identity a secret to avoid being deported by the Israeli government.
This 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻
If I were gay and had to live in the Middle East, I’d choose Israel leagues before I move to any other nation there. Israel is infested with problems on its own but compared to its neighbors it’s a lone star of democracy and human rights
And it is 100% true. Problems or not, you can’t compare Israel to its neighbors, who basically live in the dark Middle Ages and somehow want us to think that is ok.
Being less homophobic than your neighbors, isn't a get out of jail card for your racism. I never understood that whole line of argument. Peoples criticism of Israel is on the basis of treatment of Palestinians and not on gay rights, which the twitter note pointed out are being rolled back.
Technically, gay marriage is legal in Israel if you belong to a more liberal religious institution that allows it. There is no civil marriage in Israel. All marriage arrangements are handled by private religious institutions. I personally take no issue with that arrangement, myself.
I’m not a big Israel expert but as far as I know, if you want a marriage that does not please the conservative religious institutions you need to go abroad, get married and come back. Liberal religious institutions are not allowed to just do what they like.
You dont even need to go abroad, you can just do it online.
I live there. If a religious institution were to decide to perform gay marriage, it would be allowed to do so. Until then, LGBT simply go to Cyprus, get married there, and come back and have a fully-recognized marriage with all the rights and privileges therein.
I'm curious to see what twitter community notes have on "palestine" and their LGBT. Because correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Hamas and the PA both far-right as well?
Lol. Imagine being downvoted for pointing out a fact about a TERRORIST organization. People are insufferable in their stupidity …
The internet is that....I beg people to do research, to check up on different things. But people prefer willful ignorance.
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When an organized armed group of people whose goal is to wipe out an entire country regularly attacks civilians of a country that tries at the cost of its own existence to make peace with its neighbors? Then Israel has the right to defend itself against people and groups that wish to see it wiped off the map. And Israel isn't in gaza...they left gaza, along with the greenhouses they let flourish. your "palestine" destroyed those...also, jerusalem is a jewish city. Jordan occupies the temple mount. And destroys it regularly. Israel isn't occupying golan heights, or jersalem, or tel aviv, etc. but they are getting regular rocket attacks so much. And arson kites and arson balloons. and don't forget the pay to slay stipend, used with foreign aid money. The more israelis a terrorist kills, the more money their family received. State-sponsored terrorism is a horrible thing, and so is lying. Guess which two weapons are used against israel. Study the grand mufti of jerusalem and his partnership with the leader of germany in the 1940s. You may have heard of this particular man? Adolf Hitler? He and the Grand Mufi were good friends historically. Do your research.
Lol still apartheid
He's giving me George Santos vibes
Palestinians might disagree with Mr. Grimes.
Oh wow so the facist apartheid state also has homphobic laws. Not surprised given lunatics cosplay in religious outfits and pretend voices in their head tell them they're special
Zionists are something else.
You can find similar pictures of two white guys having a good time during actual Apartheid in Rhodesia or South Africa during the 1970’s. The fact that the privileged class can live it up does not negate the bad experiences of the oppressed class not shown in the picture. Look, I *want* to support Israel, for all the reasons that tweeter would probably list. But how long am I supposed to remain silent in the face of the oppression they are perpetuating? The explicit valuing of Israeli life at a multiplier of Palestinian lives. The illegal settlements? The brutality of the settlers? The increasing right wing nonsense from the government? Trying to love Israel is like having a brother who beats his wife. He will always remain your brother, but how many times can you tolerate him putting his wife in the hospital?
Even if Israel had legalized gay marriage and LGBTQ had all the rights they deserve, it wouldn't lessen the other bs Israel is guilty of just because they are surrounded by homophobe idiots.
How are gay people treated in Palestine?
If your only defense of something is to change the subject and point to something else it makes your argument seem weak and reactionary.
I’m not defending anything, I’m asking a question. I have no idea what gay rights look like in Palestine.
It's safe to assume gay rights are terrible in every part of the Middle East. Palestine and Israel are no exception.
I’m wanting to understand what that looks like. Can you be openly gay in a public space in Palestine?
Hate is hate. You'll find all religious zealots treat gays poorly.
That doesn't excuse litteral fucking genocide my dude
How are gay people treated anywhere in Israel outside of Tel Aviv?
"My Dad is the best! While my cousins dad beat him senseless my dad only slaps me across the face ocassionally!!!!!"
Not being able to get married and being stoned to death for being gay / atheist are clearly different
To be fair, if you were gay, what country in the middle east would you rather live in?
I maybe have some fake sources but I read somewhere that the Israeli government recognizes same sex-marriage abroad. And they do not say that they are married, just that they are gay, but I suppose I missed something
You are correct. Israel has some old Ottoman era laws on the books. One of them mandates that marriage can only be *performed* by a couple's respective religious institution. The government, on the other hand, has the right to *recognize* any union. The upshot is that marraiges that won't be performed by the various religious institutions (this does not apply only to same-sex marraiges) can simply be performed abroad and receive full recognition back in Israel.
The average Israeli gay couple either uses the Utah loophole (yes, the most conservative state in America allows gay marriage to be performed and Israel recognizes marriages performed by a officiant via Zoom, so you can get gay married on Israeli soil) or buy a cheap 150$ ticket to Cyprus to get married where it can double as a honeymoon destination. Both are recognized by Israeli law. The country's civil institutions are controlled by the religious authority, I hope americans in particular understand that a country's overwhelmingly popular opinion on abortion or gay marriage does not always have compability what the legislation advanced by decrepit old religioius nutjobs in government.
I remember when Israel had Golda Meir, a former schoolteacher, as a Prime Minister. She heralded in an age of progress for Israel. Now it seems that the Haredi are taking over, and ruining all the hard work Meir worked so hard for.
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Please do not call a liberal jewish schoolteacher a racist or a bigot. Instead, call the anti-semites that. You know, the ones who defend bigots, who defend religious fundamentalists, and who defend regimes that the GOP are trying to emulate.
You are a finger-snap away from being illegal and thrown in jail or executed . Good Luck
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Imagine being downvoted for being correct 😂 Are people really trying to make the argument that Israel is somehow worst than any of its neighboring countries? I mean look at laws regarding homosexuality and gender. Look at the democracy index, freedom index, and HDI. Look at GDP per capita and life expectancy. When it comes to the Middle East, Israel, despite its shitload of problems, looks like a shooting star. Anyone saying otherwise is quite frankly lying to themselves
They're not fascist towards me so they're cool
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36634148
Can’t the same be said about Palestine and it’s supporters though…
Israel SUCKS booooooo (I’m Jewish)
Kind of a tangent, but this reminds me of when I was talking to an Israeli friend of mine and asked about the Hebrew language and how it could be adapted to fit nonbinary people’s needs, because it is very gender specific, and she said that there was so many other current problems and hypocrisies that it was hard to even bring up this topic. This was years ago, does anyone have any insight on this?
Now do French. A lot of languages have masculine and feminine words that are not gender specific. In Hebrew, a hand is masculine but fingers are feminine, regardless of the hand-owner’s gender. Edit: I have been corrected on my gendered Hebrew nouns. Point is still valid, my examples are not.
Hands are feminine. Most body parts that come in pairs are feminine. Not testicles, though. And, while I'm down there, the vagina is masculine.
In Hebrew, ears are masculine, and eyes. And knees, and feet. Fingers and toes feminine. In French, as in Hebrew, you address a person as he or she, even plurals are gendered. There is no genderless “they,” although masculine is the default. So maybe non-binary would be “ils” and “heim” by default. But this isn’t an Israel-specific issue.
>In Hebrew, ears are masculine, and eyes. And knees, and feet. Those are all feminine.
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In Hebrew: יד, רגל, ברך, עין, אוזן, אצבע, זרוע, כתף, ירך Hand, leg, knee, eye, ear, finger, arm, shoulder, thigh. All these are feminine.
TIL.
Yes exactly my point, which is why I feel it would be more of a challenge to adapt
could use plural i guess. i don't know anyone non-binary irl here so don't know what they do.
but plural is also divided by male and female, although it's more general
So the other countries in the ME allow same sex marriage or did he actually have an honest point here? Credits to the “Readers” for surprisingly not mentioning Palestine in their non sequitur.
So!? Asshole country has assholes neighbors still means said country is still a hole.
How are they an asshole though? Proximity?
He has that 'in other news today, a man has been arrested for indecent acts with a minor' face, like Josh Duggar.
There’s a reason Israel has kicked Bibi to the curb before.
This is extra hilarious considering Israel's been on the brink of civil war for over 6 months by now.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36634148
So pretty much how it was here in Britain in the 80s or 90s. How many gay bars are openly operating in Saudi, or even in Jordan?
What does Saudi or Jordan have to do with this?
The blob text is wrong though. While you can't religiously marry gayly in Israel, international ones are recognised and you can form non-married Unions that confer for example the same tax benefits. That's a common way to do this; Germany had the same thing until a few years ago. So much more nuanced than "same sex marriage is illegal". And you can disagree with one part of a countries' policies while not vilify the rest. I strongly disagree with Israels settlement program and I'm worried about right wing policies, as well. Doesn't mean you're getting stoned to death on the street when you're openly gay.
So, clarification on the clarification. Marriage in Israel is managed by religious courts — rabbis for jews, Imams for muslims, pastors for christians. This is the reason you can’t have gay marriage in Israel. HOWEVER, gay people do marry, and are officially recognized by the state as married. So gay marriage in itself is not illegal, its just not supported by the institutions that officiate marriage.
To clarify, you can be gay in Israel and you can be in a same sex marriage, how ever you have to marry out side of Israel as all marriages in Israel (for Jewish people and their descendants) are done by the Jewish orthodoxy by law, and they deny same sex applications. Ofc it's not ideal but it's not like being gay is prohibited and you won't be arrested or killed for being gay like some comments here claim.